Gordon Gee’s Catch-22

The Ohio State president has news for Boise State and TCU:  you’re not worthy.

“Well, I don’t know enough about the Xs and Os of college football,” said Gee, formerly the president at West Virginia, Colorado, Brown and Vanderbilt universities. “I do know, having been both a Southeastern Conference president and a Big Ten president, that it’s like murderer’s row every week for these schools. We do not play the Little Sisters of the Poor. We play very fine schools on any given day. [Emphasis added.] So I think until a university runs through that gauntlet that there’s some reason to believe that they not be the best teams to (be) in the big ballgame.”

Just to refresh everyone’s memory, Ohio State has faced off against the likes of Marshall, Ohio and Eastern Michigan this season.  Sagarin shows the Buckeyes strength of schedule to be closer to Boise and TCU than to schools like Stanford, Alabama, LSU and Missouri (CBS, too), so who’s Gee kidding here?  We’re talking about a matter of degree, that’s all.  Unfortunately, it’s a mid-major’s fate to play in a mid-major conference.  Gee’s standard would essentially lock those schools out of the title game, no matter how much they dominated their schedule.  But schools like Ohio State aren’t lining up to give the Broncos a shot at home-and-homes to bring BSU’s schedule to a level that Gee would approve, either.  They can’t win.

Let me hear him say the same thing about a Big East contender and maybe I’ll give his self-serving argument more credence.

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UPDATE: You ever wonder what somebody sputtering on Twitter sounds like?

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61 Comments

Filed under BCS/Playoffs, It's Not Easy Being A Mid-Major

61 responses to “Gordon Gee’s Catch-22

  1. joe

    WTH is Northern Illinois doing at number 23 with a 9-2 record against the 114th rated SOS???

    I am not saying UGA should be ranked per se, but UGA would blast them by 40 on nine of ten times and by 50 the other time.

    Stuff like that is why I hate the polls!

  2. Mayor of Dawgtown

    The Big-Ten is the MAC with a better TV contract.

  3. Greg

    Joe, you might get to see that theory about UGA vs N. Illinois tested…at least one website is projecting UGA to go to the Motor City Bowl(or whatever it’s called) to play N Illinois. It’s not out of the realm of possibility if the SEC doesn’t get two teams in BCS bowl games. UGH.

  4. jferg

    he had me at (my interpretation) equating the Big 10 “murderer’s row” to the SEC. Everything he said after that point was irrelevant.

  5. Macallanlover

    I think Gee is the half-brother of Jim Delany, together the two biggest obstacles to us ever getting a playoff. For decades Ohio State and Michigan hid behind a weak schedule to obtain rankings they rarely deserved. He has far less credibility than Boise when it comes to whining about strength of schedule, at least Boise threw down the gauntlet.

  6. Ben

    I think we all agree with the basics of what he said, just not how he applied it. If Boise wants to be taken seriously, they need to improve their athletic program, update their stadium and get into a BCS conference.

  7. Bulldog Joe

    Gee Gordon,

    Talk is cheap. How ’bout adding a game with TCU or Boise State to your schedule (outside the horseshoe)?

  8. Vindexdawg

    Yes, this is awfully hilarious talk coming from a Bucknut. As for them taking on Boise State or TCU – don’t hold your breath. Wazzu or Youngstown State is more like it. Hopefully they get squeezed out of the BCS bowls next month so that they can assume the role that the Almighty long ordained for them – the SEC’s Bowl Bitch.

    • W Cobb Dawg

      In Gee’s defense, osu has played home-and-homes with USC and Texas in recent years. Miami too, though they aren’t the powerhouse they used to be. I think Gee is just expressing the truth, nothing more or less.

      Boise simply doesn’t have the resources osu does, and they never will. But they do a damn good job with what they’ve got to work with.

  9. FisheriesDawg

    Yeah, they’ve dominated their schedule ruthlessly with the exception of the two BCS-level schools they’ve played. They had a nice win against an OK Oregon State team and a squeaker against an OK Virginia Tech team (don’t tell me they’re anything special just because they’ve been winning in the ACC, that’s like winning the spelling bee on the short bus).

    The problem is we have no idea of knowing if they’re good, great, or elite. Sorry, but beating San Jose State 48-0 doesn’t really tell me anything more towards this cause. There are at least two dozen schools out there this year that would probably be undefeated against Boise’s schedule (I’d even give one of the worst UGA teams in recent history at least an even shot of it), and a lot of those wins would be the types of blowouts you’re seeing from Boise right now.

    • JBJ

      The fact of the matter is that they have won the games. They stepped up to the level of competition and won. What more do they need to do? Everyone seems to forget the 2007 Fiesta Bowl where they beat Oklahoma. I mean what more do they need to do to get respect? Nobody wants a playoff, yet nobody wants to acknowledge the fact Boise is a legit contender. VT is probably going to win the ACC and BSU travelled across the country and beat them.

      • I-AA James Madison University

        “VT is probably going to win the ACC and BSU travelled across the country and beat them.”

        So did we! We must be a legit contender too!

      • Biggus Rickus

        They need to not play in a terrible conference. It’s not entirely fair, but it’s the truth. And bowl games are terrible ways to judge teams, especially the meaningless ones, i.e. every one but the national title game.

        • JBJ

          WOAH THERE! Are you saying there are meaningless games in college football? Senator, tell me it is not so!

          • Puffdawg

            To be fair to SB, I think you are using faulty logic here. To say there would never be meaningless games in CFB would be impossible, whether we had the Bowl Alliance, the BCS, or a 128 team playoff. But what I think SB has always contended (and I agree with) is that meaningful games might become less meaningful if we had an extended playoff. The two are not the same.

            In other words, the La Lafayette games are not going away no matter what happens with the post season. That is absolutely guaranteed. But with an extended playoff, there will be a paradigm shift from goals of winning one’s conference and beating its rivals to making the playoffs, which can be pretty arbitrary, especially the larger the playoff. Present day, a loss to USC is devastating because they are a rival and it is a division loss. But with an extended playoff, the thought process will shift to rationalization because there is a good chance 4 SEC teams will make the playoff, thus we are still alive for a playoff. 8-4 coaches will be rewarded “because they made the playoffs” instead of because they beat their rivals or because the contended in their conference.

            For some of us, the uniqueness of the regular season essentially being the playoff still means something. As I’ve said before, I could give two shits about winning the national championship because with the nature of football, there’ll never be a good system to determine the best team with absolutely no question. I’m perfectly content with our goals being win the East, win the SEC and beat our rivals, because those are things we can typically control.

            A prime example of this would be to look right down the road in Statesboro. GA Southern is thrilled right now because they are “in the playoffs” despite the fact that the came in third place in their own conference. I’m thrilled for them, but here they are saying “Shucks, we lost to Wofford, Chattanooga, and Samford, but who cares, we made the playoffs!”

            • Macallanlover

              The “meaningless game” discussion is blown up by a limited playoff, and regardless of how anyone looks at it, the “you can run but you cannot hide” truism is absolutley nailed. No one gives enough play to this side of the argument. How many Big 10 teams (plus ND) have been awarded faux titles while hiding behind a weak conference and a matchup against a weak PAC 10 champ in the Rose Bowl? They ducked the SEC and Big 8 champs for decades. Flush ‘em out!

              • Puffdawg

                Mac you know I’m on record supporting a Plus One. That would “flush em out.” Anything beyond that would dilute the field IMO.

                • Macallanlover

                  Obviously a Plus One is a step closer, but it is one step short of accomplishing the job. I don’t disagree that 4 teams will get every deserving candidate in almost every year, but there will be legit complaints simply because of these type arguments. Give the representation of pne more round (mid-december) and you shut all but the insane up. Inclusion is necessary for those who think their conference is really good, they are blind. Why not shut them up? 8 teams doesn’t take away from the regular season, it would enhance it.

      • 2007 Hawaii

        “The fact of the matter is that they have won the games. They stepped up to the level of competition and won.”

        Don’t forget about us! We were legit contenders too! We should have been in BCSNCG. Sorry ass BCS!

      • Atlchris

        What does beating the Sooners in 2007 have anything to do with playing a decent schedule in 2010???

  10. Boise State

    Anywhere, anytime…as long as there’s a return game.

  11. JBJ

    Boise just can’t win. They beat VT at Fedex Field, which was basically a home game for VT. VT goes on to dominate the ACC. VT will probably be the ACC champion, yet Boise still gets no respect. Boise continually plays big games and they keep winning. They even beat a very good Oregon State team.

    OSU and the Big 10 continually get publicity thanks to their biggest fan (KHerb) that spends all day Saturday talking them up. It makes me want to puke.

    • John

      Their only option is to get into a better conference. Given the choice between a team playing an SEC or Pac-x schedule, the team playing the tougher schedule is going to go every time. Can you really disagree with that?

    • Biggus Rickus

      Oregon State’s 5-5.

      • East Cobb Devildawg

        You read my mind. Oregon state could very well end up at 5-7. They still have to play Stanford and Oregon.
        Also the ACC’s major OOC wins this year include BYU and Rutgers. BYU may end up being .500 at the end of the year and Rutgers is 4-6 right now.

        I don’t feel a lot of sympathy for a team that only has 15 years in 1-A and has gotten a ridiculous amount of press and money from the BCS when they whine about not being in the MNCG. Espn and chick-fil-a helped them with their scheduling for 2011. I don’t recall ESPN jumping up like that for any other mid-major. I believe that if their program really was “ANY TIME, ANY PLACE” then they would only request for travel expenses and play on the big boys terms until they proved it on the field. /endrant

    • 2-9 Washington State Cougars

      We beat a “very good Oregon State team.” Where is the love for us???

    • FisheriesDawg

      Sorry, but beating the ACC champ doesn’t earn you any serious respect (especially when you only beat them by 3 and they follow that up with a loss to a 1-AA team).

      Remember last year? 7-5 Georgia beat the ACC champ and 7-5 South Carolina beat the runner-up. Those teams went to the Independence and PapaJohns.com bowls, respectively. And that was where they deserved to go. The only thing those two games told us was that the ACC is and probably always will be a joke when it comes to college football.

  12. Sanford222View

    I actually went to school at the University of Colorado and Vanderbilt when Gee was at both places. The year after I graduated from Vanderbilt I returned to Nashville to watch Richt’s first Georgia team play in the Music City Bowl. We had a box right next to the box where Gee was sitting for the game. He ended up coming over to our box to chat after I told him I was at both schools when he was and had met him at one of my fraternity tailgates before a CU game in the early 1990’s. I asked him about the BCS vs. playoff debate and he told me there was no way the university presidents would ever let a playoff happen. They want to keep the BCS. He gave me the b.s. players would miss more class time, etc. stuff but I really knew he meant because of the money.

  13. Keese

    I’d love nothing more than for TCU or Boise to get in the NC game and win. Not because they are deserving by playing weaker schedules but because it would throw the BCS into chaos! The mess it created would be wonderfully entertaining.

  14. kurlos

    lol. Boise State’s schedule is a collection of some of the worst teams in the country. Congratulations on “dominating” New Mexico State, Wyoming, Toledo, San Jose State….is this all?….nope, there’s more…Louisiana Tech, Hawaii, Idaho, Fresno State. Hilarious! Let’s not forget V-Tech losing to division II school, and the powerhouse PAC-10 Oregon State pulling up the rear with their 5-5 record. Just when you thought a schedule couldn’t be any worse: Along comes Nevada, with their collection of community colleges. Are you suggesting that whether you win 55-7 or get outscored 42-10 for three quarters has something to do with the team you’re playing against?

    Georgia “dominated” LA Lafayette, Vanderbilt, and Idaho St, and we’re mostly embarrassing. Imagine if we had EIGHT of those. We’d be 10-1 and, yet, STILL be thoroughly mediocre. You can be thoroughly mediocre and go undefeated when you play Vanderbilt (or worse) every single effen week.

  15. Scorpio Jones, III

    Uhhhh, in light of what’s coming up next season, Da Boise is the best team I have ever seen on a college football field. They most certainly deserve to play for the BCS Championship, and defend it next season.

    Absolutely. And, they should play Awbun. That way if they lose it may not count.

    It will just be an incredible honor to be on the same field as a team like Boysee.

  16. BuzMan

    Boise needs to just join the Big East. That might fix two problems at once.

  17. Macallanlover

    I can understand some of the skepticsm about Boise St., they would be a middle of the pack SEC team most years, imo. No, they could not run the gauntlet of 8 SEC games every year but really, how many teams ever do? So I accept the comments about their schedule as a whole because they are able to “target” the 1-2 games a year where they face good/decent competition.

    I just think many posters here go to the extreme in trashing them as being nuts for asking for some respect. There is an area between “great” and “average”. Boise has certainly earned respect from knowledgeable football fans. That Va. Tech win alone is not enough to say they are deserving of a BCS bowl bid, but combined with their crushing of everyone else on their schedule, Fresno in particular, and a convincing win over Oregon State (who humiliated Cal) is not to be ignored. Especially when they thumped Oregon last year, who was the PAC10 Champ, before PC left and sanctions were imposed. As I recall, they held Oregon to zero first downs in the 1st half. That is impressive in anyone’s way of measuring performance! And you cannot forget those bowl wins over OU and TCU. How many times can you say the other team didn’t take them seriously? TCU beat Clemson in Death Valley last year, and OU was trying to break a losing bowl streak of their own. I think Boise got VT, OU, and TCU’s best effort in those games. All of them knew what at stake, and they fell short. Those were all different than Bama’s no show against Utah. What more can you realistically ask of Boise?

    And if you are looking down your nose at them, don’t come on here and express fear about them opening with UGA next year. The thought of Kellen Moore against our defense scares me…..a lot. If it doesn’t worry you, I am not sure what you are smoking.

    • FisheriesDawg

      I don’t think anyone is making the argument that Boise isn’t at least “good”. If they weren’t good, they would have found a way to lose a game or two along the way even though they’re playing a schedule full of tomato cans.

      The point is that they’re somewhere between “good” and “elite”. Unfortunately, there’s no way of knowing exactly where in that range the Boise team lies. There’s also no justification for just assuming they’re elite and bumping a team like Auburn or Oregon who has done far more to justify their placement in the MNC game.

      And just as an aside, I’d be far more open to seeing TCU in the MNC than Boise. TCU has a football history, their coach is highly respective of the game of college football (and their fans seem to follow suit), and they PLAY ON FREAKIN’ GREEN GRASS!!! Everything about Boise is a gimmick and I hope we once again send that gimmick crashing to the ground in September. Perhaps if they didn’t do crap like paint their field blue, us stodgy old college football purists would be slightly more open to listening to their whining (as they tried to demand that teams travel to play in the glorified high school stadium after playing less than two decades of big boy football).

      • Macallanlover

        Need to get over the blue field thing. It may say something about lacking tradition, but it has nothing to do with the quality of their team. For the record, there have been many Faux NCs between good and elite. Not but one way to solve this……get out of the way obstructionists!

  18. AthensHomerDawg

    I hope all our Dawg fans can still talk smack after the opener in Atlanta. Boise will bring its well executed and disciplined game….. with a lot of gimmick plays if needed. Dawgs best be prepared to just whip their ass and move on or South Cackilacky will be licking their lips. I hate losin’ early…kinda throws a monkey wrench into things.
    just sayin’

  19. Tom

    The bottom line is th4e dearth of pros from BSU.

    Where are they?

    Bottom line, is they are NOT that talented and playing one big game a year does not a BCS champion make.

    As far as the home and home malarkey, go play the big boys there and WIN one …. or ten, then complain. A legit SEC team has to win FOUR a year on opposing fields to go undefeated, before the SECCG and a possibly BCSCG. Just win 2-3 a year even at some legit BCS conf. fields, then get back to me.

    • AthensHomerDawg

      I hear ya..would that big game that they might play be in Atlanta? They are well disciplined. Georgia doesn’t play in the NFL so does it matter if Boise players reach that plateau?

  20. hassan

    The AQ teams play schools in those conferences as cupcakes.

    I would say if they want to step up to the big time, then all their ooc games should be against the big boys. No cupcakes for those conferences…their conference schedule is already full of them.

    Kudos for scheduling Va Tech and Oregon St. But if Boise St had played something other than Toledo & Wyoming this year, they might have a better argument.

  21. almightytmc1

    I really don’t think that Gee has much leverage here.
    But I think Boise State needs to move up the food chain of conferences. They have shown they have a quality program.
    And as everyone knows, you get your respect by punching the big boys in the mouth. Not the weaklings.

  22. Jermaine's Dye

    This is the sort of rank and file BS that happens when a sport doesn’t decide it’s champion on the field.