An easy way to determine if an athletic director is a moron.

Joshua wants to know something.

Sure wish Chip Towers could ask the South Carolina coaching staff if their bonuses are based on recruiting rankings on the Rivals and Scout sites and whether or not those bonuses are prorated to account for the signing of a fake letter of intent.

Don’t laugh.  Bruce Feldman says that’s a reality these days.

… For these reasons, some schools now give their coaches bonuses based on their recruiting rankings. And because of that it’s no surprise that some coaches privately lobby some online recruiting services who generate the star-system, defining how each recruit is graded.

Gee, now there’s a shock.

Feldman doesn’t name any coaches with such a provision in their contracts.  I’m a little surprised no one’s made the effort to do some digging on this.  Bottom line:  if there are any SEC schools dumb enough to reward their coaches on such a basis, the conference ought to put an end to it.  Not because it gives schools a competitive advantage (if anything, overranking players would seem to do the opposite over time) but because it incentivizes maximizing the size of recruiting classes for no productive reason.

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27 Comments

Filed under It's Just Bidness, Recruiting

27 responses to “An easy way to determine if an athletic director is a moron.

  1. TennesseeDawg

    Also, if a coach has a higher ranked class in Rivals than in ESPN which one do they get the bonus for? Then you’d have a coach suing the school because they paid out on the lowest ranking recruiting site.

  2. JBJ

    It is not clear to me that it encourages them to oversign. I can see if they try to sign players with high star ratings and questionable academics, but is that really the case? With Mauldin, he didn’t actually sign a LOI.

    • If you look at Rivals’ and Scout’s rankings, they’re based on both quality and quantity to achieve a total score. Teams aren’t ranked by average rating, so, yes, as a general rule, the more, the merrier.

      • crapsandwich

        That is exactly how it works, personally follow recruiting very closely. Happens on Rivals all the time, when Alabama or Florida get involved with a player, they end up rating the player higher in the end.

        The whole thing is rather silly, yet oddly intoxicating, to follow these services. They really mean little, and the camps are what should be followed, and if a kid is being recruited in your area, go see them play.

      • Macallanlover

        I have never understood why average star rankings aren’t the standard used. The star ratings of HS athletes are already a shaky measurement, but to rank classes on pure volume of subjective ratings is a very questionable measurement. It would be even if the oversigning issue were fixed.

        • Hackerdog

          Numbers do matter.

          As an example of the inadequacies of the average stars, assume Georgia has a small class of 15 kids. But they’re all 5 star kids. The average ranking is, of course, 5 stars. Now say that Florida has a regular class of 25 kids. They get 15 kids who are 5 stars and 10 kids who are 4 stars. Their average class ranking is 4.6 stars. But I would rather have that class.

          Now, assume Ole Miss signs 30 kids. 15 who have 5 stars, 10 who have 4 stars, and 5 who have 3 stars. They average 4.33 stars. But their class is stronger yet.

    • Texas_Dawg

      South Carolina still oversigned by 6 players.

      They pulled the Mauldin and Montgomery scholarships because they were up against the 28 maximum (Houston Nutt Rule). But they still ended up 6 over 85.

  3. TimRankine

    Good god, more oversigning…I can’t quit you Senator so I’ll just have to learn to take it.

    • AthensHomerDawg

      “Ground Hog day?”…;-)

    • Texas_Dawg

      You said in the previous oversigning thread that you think there are far bigger problems facing the game today. Can you give me that list?

      • A few of the top of my head:
        -Cecil Newton exploiting loopholes in the system in a pay for play scheme and getting away scot-free.
        -Jim Tressel blatantly lying to the NCAA and having the gall to petition on the behalf of players that he knew for months were ineligible to play in a bowl game.
        -Little to no assistance from the NFL in monitoring agents/streetwalkers/runners.
        -Sketchy men serving as “recruiting advisers” creating sham recruiting video services and being paid above market rates in order to steer recruits to certain schools.
        -Fiesta Bowl execs facing serious allegations regarding illicit political contributions

        Just a brief list, but I’d argue all of those are just as big, if not bigger problems facing the college game than oversigning. But I already know what you believe that oversigning is the most grave injustice in the history of mankind, so you’ll likely disagree that others could believe these to be greater problems.

        • Texas_Dawg

          -Cecil Newton exploiting loopholes in the system in a pay for play scheme and getting away scot-free.

          There has been no proof Newton received money. If there is he and the people that paid him will be punished. It is certainly being heavily investigated.

          -Jim Tressel blatantly lying to the NCAA and having the gall to petition on the behalf of players that he knew for months were ineligible to play in a bowl game.

          And he too is now being investigated by the NCAA, has been suspended for 5 games, and will be trying to hang on to his job after a bylaw 10.1 violation, something no major program coach or official has ever survived.

          -Little to no assistance from the NFL in monitoring agents/streetwalkers/runners.
          -Sketchy men serving as “recruiting advisers” creating sham recruiting video services and being paid above market rates in order to steer recruits to certain schools.

          These, along with your first two examples, are basically all the same problem of young adults being illegally paid for participating in a violent sport that poses a serious threat to their long-term health.

          -Fiesta Bowl execs facing serious allegations regarding illicit political contributions

          OK.

          So we have players getting paid illegally and bowl reps profiting off their positions. Any other examples?

          It’s interesting to note that you find white Southerners and Southern state institutions lying to and exploiting black teenagers (and occasionally some working class white teenagers as well) and greatly harming their lives in the process to be less of a problem than the same people getting paid for their efforts. Additionally, you apparently find cheating by paying players a serious threat to the competitive equity of the game, but running dishonest and exploitative operations to gain huge talent pool increases is apparently not worth any real mention when discussing results.

          Very, very odd.

          • Additionally, you apparently find cheating by paying players a serious threat to the competitive equity of the game, but running dishonest and exploitative operations to gain huge talent pool increases is apparently not worth any real mention when discussing results.

            Very, very odd.

            Do you lack basic reading comprehension skills? Never once in this long running discussion have I ever stated that I find oversigning to not be worth any real mention. Again, you’re playing your asshole with a schtick routine and putting words in my mouth (which you’ve done countless other times with others here). Please point out one example where I’ve explicitly stated that I believe oversigning is a good thing (and not one of your bullshit inferences where if I haven’t explicitly stated I’m against oversigning then I must be for it). And if you can’t honestly understand why people care about different things more than others (even if these multiple things are cut from the same cloth in what they impact), then there really is no help for you. I honestly can’t comprehend your outrage at the fact that some people may not feel as strongly about this as you. I’m s0rry but that’s just life in general, bud. Everybody is not going to care about things as strongly as you do. Belittling them and questioning their moral make up because they don’t care about this as much as you does nothing more than make you look like an asshole. As I stated before, you already know this though. As GM stated in an earlier thread, this is the last time I’m going to have this conversation with you. I wish you luck in your cause.

  4. If his name starts with Mik- and ends in -amilton?

  5. ScoutDawg

    Or, they could just win the SEC East.

  6. HVL Dawg

    Senator, I’m suprised you haven’t commented on how the Bruce Pearl firing might be viewed in Ohio.

    • ScoutDawg

      Who wants to fight when they hear, “SEC Least”. Like you ever think the SEC EAST is a phuckin joke.

  7. mwo

    If he wears a cap with a creamsicle orange T on the front of it. Or gets pulled over with red panties in his lap.

  8. No One Knows You're a Dawg

    The answer to which schools give bonuses for rankings is just a FOIA request away.

    • Irwin R. Fletcher

      At best, lazy reporting…at worst, rumor mongering by Feldman. How can you make that claim without a source or an example? Seriously, that’s not journalism…that’s repeating something you ‘heard’ and putting it out there as a fact. I’m not saying he isn’t right, but he should be able to say why he is right.

      http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2010-coaches-contracts-database.htm?loc=interstitialskip

      Someone with some time…feel free.
      FYI- Spurrier’s contract…no guaranteed incentive for recruiting rankings. Petrino/Saban has no guaranteed incentive for recruiting, but does have an incentive for graduation rate.

      I wish they had the actual assistant coach contracts…I assume getting into the bonus structure for guys like Trooper Taylor, Rodney Garner, etc. would give more insight.

      • shane#1

        The reward for an assistant coach for recruiting does not have to be a bonus. All assistants want to move up the ladder and recruiting well is paramount when seeking a better job. Will some young coaches use recruiting practices that may actually harm the program that’s paying them just to pad their own resume? Absolutely. After highly rated UT stubbed it’s toe, I believe it was in 2005, Phat Phil had a come-to-Jesus with his staff. ” I told them no more of this chasing after every four and five star recruit in the country” Phil said. Then he added, “I told them to find me some football players and I don’t care how many stars are by their name”.

      • Texas_Dawg

        At best, lazy reporting…at worst, rumor mongering by Feldman. How can you make that claim without a source or an example?

        I didn’t read the article cited here, but Feldman goes into more detail (i.e. specific examples) in his book Meat Market.

  9. Texas_Dawg

    It sounds like this will no longer be legal as of July 1st:

    The U.S. Department of Education has published a new rule that, among other measures aimed at strengthening federal student aid programs, prohibits all institutions participating in programs under Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended (HEA), from paying any incentive compensation based directly or indirectly on securing student enrollments or financial aid; The Department’s final regulations, issued on October 29, 2010, abolish 12 safe harbor provisions specifically carved out from the general prohibition on incentive compensation in the 2002 amendments to the Higher Education Act.

    The final regulations, which go into effect on July 1, 2011, apply to personnel at all levels, including athletic directors and coaches, who are “engaged in any student recruitment or admission activit[ies],” including “higher level employee[s] with responsibility for recruitment or admission of students;” The Department’s interpretation of the statutory prohibition on incentive compensation is expansive. Of particular interest to collegiate athletic programs, the final regulations contain a broader definition of “securing enrollment” that covers incentive pay based on non-enrollment factors such as program completion and graduation. At the same time, however, the Department stated in its comments that incentive compensation based on team athletic performance would not be considered prohibited.

    (Source: first result from this Google search. (The direct URL is blocked by a paywall.))

  10. And while we’re on the subject…

    Mark Barron was arrested over the weekend for hindering prosecution (specifically, attempting to derail an investigation into a wreck involving his cousin). Noted disciplinarian Nick Saban (you know, that guy who runs a really tight ship and refuses to renew these “one year contracts” for players who don’t obey the rules and so on) quickly jumped to publicly downplay Barron’s crime as just a one-time mistake. As soon as he was done dismissing Barron’s arrest as no big deal, Saban announced that the much less important Robby Green, who has not been arrested for anything, is suspended (“for right now”) for – as always – “undisclosed violations.”

    Interesting to compare Saban’s announcement of Green’s suspension (the wording of which you can see in full in the video link above) to Richt’s announcement of Washaun Ealey’s suspension. Upon announcing Ealey’s suspension, Richt was very clear that Ealey had been presented with things he could do to get back in good standing with the team (as Ealey then did). Did Saban do that with Green? Nope. Just a brief statement about his being suspended “for right now.”

    11 players must go. Glenn Harbin’s already been pushed off to the baseball team for his final year. Kerry Murphy and Kendall Kelly are already being set up as the latest additions to that lengthy medical DQs list. So 8 more have to be found somewhere. Green is an easy target after having been suspended by the NCAA for all of 2010.