Does Mark Richt know something about oversigning we don’t know?

He seems to think rules changes are imminent.

“Almost every year there have been guys in our class in that gray shirt situation. Normally, we say you don’t have to tell anybody, just sign on Signing Day and the chances of you coming in with your class, no one’s going to know the difference, which I don’t think is dishonest with the way things are,” Richt said. “So we’ve signed guys knowing that the class is full and asked if they could come in January, but every time we’ve done that, there’s been a space and they came in with their class.”

But those rules might be about to change.

According to Richt, the SEC and the NCAA is changing the rules “just as rapidly as they can to keep it from happening in the future.”

It’s a little unclear whether he’s referring to oversigning or greyshirting there, but he sure sounds like a man who’s heard something is about to happen.  It’ll be interesting to see if he’s right; we’ll get some indication of that from the SEC meetings later this month.

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46 Comments

Filed under Recruiting, SEC Football, The NCAA

46 responses to “Does Mark Richt know something about oversigning we don’t know?

  1. crap sandwich

    That comment I found rather interesting as well. Maybe something will come out of the Destin meeting. My guess would be on the “grayshirting” issue, if anything. The hand is stacked against us.

  2. Macallanlover

    It should embarras these, so-called, men of integrity if they leave Destin (again) and don’t address the oversigning issue. Even if they put a “cap” at 1/2 over to account for slippage, this bad behavior should be stopped immediately. Even the Big 10/12 gets it, and controls it by protecting the athlete while maintaining a level playing field for their member schools.

    If the out of control, oversigning programs were child molesters/abusers, would they need the NCAA to pass legislation to make them change their behavior? There is no defense for what a handfull of SEC schools are doing with oversigning. You don’t need Big Brother to tell you to stop, your own code of ethics should be enough.

    • Macallanlover

      Sorry, that looks like one half over, meant to say a cap of 1-2 over the actual number of openings might be a compromise solution that would be fair to all given the historical data on some players not making it in the fall after they sign. If they all did make it on campus, let that school be over by 1-2 for that one year, being one freshman over the 85 scholarship level wouldn’t be a significant power factor anyway and it would reward coaches who sign more players that make it academically.

    • IveyLeaguer

      Well said.
      Most SEC fans have no idea how big of an advantage Oversigning (the way it’s done at Alabama, other SEC West teams, and to some extent South Carolina) is.

      Essentially, they sign 4 classes to our 3. Put another way they sift 20-25 more players through their system every 3 years. And may the best players stick. That’s a tremendous personnel advantage over teams that stay within the 85 all year. And when those extra 20-25 players are elite recruits, as with LSU and Alabama, the advantage is even greater.

      So yeah, it will be a travesty and embarrassment if the Destin meetings don’t address this primary element of Oversigning.

      But I suspect Crap Sandwich is right, and something will be done about grayshirting abuses, and the main problem will be left pretty much alone.
      ~~~

  3. Texas_Dawg

    Very unfortunate comments from Coach Richt on this.

    I’m not sure which years he is referring to in which he oversigned and considered using grayshirts since UGA hasn’t been oversigned in several years. But he still defends the practice after basically saying, “Hey, we aren’t as bad about it as some other schools.”

    Grayshirting should not be an option left open for UGA employees. One can say that as long as a coach is honest with recruits about the situation, than no wrong has been done. But how does anyone know what coaches have said in private meetings with teenagers? How does anyone know what these people understand about the risks of grayshirting? A coach can sell a player on the likelihood of having to grayshirt being very, very small… when he, having full control of the numbers, knows that is not true. (This is what Nick Saban and heavily oversigning coaches do.)

    The best organizations and institutions stay vigilant in attempting to remove areas such as this in which employees have great incentives to behave unethically.

    Florida has said it will no longer consider grayshirting. The weaker, poorer, less academically respected institutions of the SEC have taken the exact opposite approach: defending the practice and promising to continue it.

    I sports hate Florida as much as any UGA fan, but the reality is that Florida is 21st Century, affluent, heavily populated and successful state. And the University of Florida’s academic standing is widely seen as the second best among SEC schools (with UGA being a not too distant 3rd).

    UGA should be seeking to stay with Florida and Vanderbilt in the 21st Century. It should not be wanting to chase Alabama, Auburn and the rest of these schools into 1950. Being better requires behaving better, and behaving better often requires improving your behavior, even if it’s already much better than that of people living in small, impoverished, largely irrelevant, economically stagnant states nearby.

    • IveyLeaguer

      Points well taken, but I don’t think for a minute that Richt has ever deceived a recruit or his family. What he’s said, and I heard him say it, is the few times we’ve done it, everything was up front … with the player and his parents from the get-go. We didn’t come back later and say “oh gosh, will you take a grayshirt”. And most, if not all, of the time the spot opened up anyway.

      Georgia is not part nor parcel to the Oversigning problem in any way whatsoever.
      ~~~

      • Texas_Dawg

        And Nick Saban and all the rest say the same. Upfront, impoverished Southern black kid knew what he was getting into, fully knew the risks, and so on.

        So we say Mark Richt really has been totally honest and really did fully explain the risks and really was somehow able to bring the often heavily disadvantaged kids we recruit into this violent game around to understanding the risks, terms, numbers, and the rest as well as the seasoned pros they are up against. Are we right in saying this? Maybe. We sure hope so. But Nick Saban says he does all the same and has just as many people there to support him on it.

        Just a really bad approach. Grayshirting is not needed. 85 is plenty. The only reason to grayshirt is to push the envelope to gain an edge. But allowing that leaves open the risks of letting the school’s operations be handled by Nick Saban, Mal Moore, and similarly repulsively dishonest and unethical men. Mark Richt won’t be the coach at Georgia forever. The next coach might be another man of Richt’s character… or he might be a Nick Saban. The next AD might be a Mal Moore.

        Very simple solution: do as Will Muschamp recently did. Announce publicly that whatever its policies on this issue were in the past, in 2011 and going forward grayshirting and oversigning are completely off the table as options for UGA employees.

        It’s 2011. It’s Georgia. It’s the South. There is extremely relevant history here as much as we might not want to face it. I’m proud that the state of Georgia is not Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc. I’m proud that it is economically booming and rapidly growing while those remain economically and culturally stagnant. I’m proud the University of Georgia has greatly distanced itself from these SEC West schools in behavior and academic reputation since the “good old days” of the SEC.

        Down one path sits progress, modernity, development, etc. Down the other sits, well, Alabama. The exact opposite. Other schools up ahead of us down the good path have chosen to take grayshirting and oversigning off the table. Down the opposite path sit a bunch of embarrassing people and their embarrassingly regressive institutions and culture and their defense of such practices.

        Yeah, maybe more football wins are down the Alabama path.

        Guess what?

        I couldn’t fonking care less. Those people and what they have created, for anyone who hasn’t been paying attention over the past year, are utterly pathetic.

        • IveyLeaguer

          OK, but it’s up to the SEC and the NCAA to make the changes.

          And it’s very important to point out that Richt has never violated the intent of the rule. Georgia has used the rule, from time to time, as it was intended to be used. And it always worked out for the best for everybody concerned.

          IMHO, Georgia has always been one of the classier programs in the SEC, may the best. From Mehre to Butts to Dooley to Richt, with few exceptions. And the record shows Georgia has led the way over the years toward a more progressive model, of which you speak, not only in the SEC, but nationally.

          I hope the Destin meetings will be a big step forward. But I’m not holding my breath. We’ll sure find out a lot about where the leadership of the SEC really is.
          ~~~

          • Sanford222View

            Agree.

            Texas I think you are making a big leap and a lot of assumptions to leap Richt in with what Saban and Nutt do. It seems pretty obvious that UGA doesn’t use the same strategy as Bama and Ole Miss when Richt doesn’t sign classes 6-8 players larger than they have room for like those schools do. Georgia may sign one or two more but that has to be done or UGA would end up signing a half a class less than everyone else every 4 years.

            No one is suggesting UGA should mislead any recruit. There is nothing wrong with gray shirting as long as the recruit knows it is a possibility from the beginning. Richt has been pretty clear that is how UGA handles it. If UGA wasn’t some one would have spoken out about it by now if they weren’t treated fairly.

            • IveyLeaguer

              A big leap indeed.

              There is no comparing Richt and Saban when it comes to compromising for gain. And there is zero evidence that Richt has ever taken advantage of the rules (and left a player hanging out to dry) or run a player off to make room for a new player. It just hasn’t happened.

              Also, all of the SEC West is involved in oversigning for advantage, not just Alabama or Ole Miss.
              ~~~

              • Texas_Dawg

                And Saban, Nutt, Miles say there is zero evidence they have ever taken advantage of the rules or run a player off to make room for a new player.

                You say they have, they and their fans all say they haven’t.

                How about this:

                Let’s make it very clear, publicly, that whatever we’ve done in the past with oversigning and grayshirting, we will refuse to do either in the future.

                Do that, follow up on it, and then we’re out of this “we say, they say” morass. These inferior SEC West schools are then left without a “they do it too” out and are left having to defend the repulsive behavior on its own merits. A game that, as we know from our history books, the state of Alabama, up against the rest of the country, will most certainly lose.

                • Not sure where you’re getting your facts from … let’s clear up everal things …

                  First, Richt has never defended oversigning in any way, shaoe, or form. Quite the contrary, he’s being quoted in Sports Illustrated right now as saying he “thinks it’s an awful thing to do”.

                  As to grayshirting, Richt says we have used it some, but only as it was intended to be used. I’m pretty sure no player who accepted the possibility of a grayshirt up front, has ever had to actually take it. Somehow a place opened up NATURALLY, not forced or manipulated. Regardless, Richt has been a model of how the rule was intended to be used, always keeping the interests of the player first, where it should be.

                  Second, there is plenty of evidence that reveal what Saban and others are doing, regardless of what they and their dumbed-down fanbase says. They are exploiting the rules, knowing that significant numbers of kids will be hurt. But they don’t care, because it gives them an advantage.

                  There is absolutely no need for Georgia to change its honorable behavior when others are unethical or cheat. The rules were intended to protect teams from natural attrition. It is ridiculous to suggest we not use the rules justly, simply because others are abusing it. That would put ourselves at a greater disadvantage than we already are.

                  Our job is to operate within the rules, while applying the highest ethical standards and integrity. And that is what we are doing.
                  ~~~

                  • Texas_Dawg

                    First, Richt has never defended oversigning in any way, shaoe, or form.

                    You might want to read the quotes from the UGASports.com article that started this post. What he is defending is oversigning. Grayshirting is not necessary without oversigning. See Blutarsky’s response to me in these comments where he says (and I agree) that Richt was willing to oversign in 2011.

                    Our job is to operate within the rules, while applying the highest ethical standards and integrity. And that is what we are doing.

                    And Nick Saban thanks you for your support (whether you intended it or not) and responds that he is operating within the rules with the highest ethical standards and integrity as well.

                    Florida has said they will no longer do it. Why are you so scared to take that approach?

                    • You are confusing Oversigning, as practiced by the SEC West and South Carolina, with Grayshirting. Yes, Grayshirting, by definition, technically requires signing one or even several more than you have room for.

                      Quit the contrary, Oversigning, as it’s most often discussed and defined, involves signing considerably more than you have room for, knowing full well that natural attrition will rarely, if ever, open up enough spots. Plus, it requires being fully prepared to manipulate or force a number of current scholarship players out of the program in order to create the spots you need.

                      I don’t know how to say it any clearer than that.

                      Richt has never even come close to doing anything like that. He doesn’t have to defend anything, and neither do we. If you are the loyal Dawg you claim to be, and it’s appearing you are not, then you should be proud of the way your head coach has handled this issue, instead of criticizing him for acting faithfully and within the intent of the rules. Richt’s actions in this regard are nothing short of a model for the NCAA.

                      He needs to do nothing other than what he’s been doing. To do what you are arguing for would be STUPID, and totally uncalled for.

                      If the rules change, and I hope they do, Georgia will benefit as much as any team in the country, probably more.
                      ~~~

            • Texas_Dawg

              You should read what I said again then.

              I didn’t say Richt is Saban et al. I believe he is a much more ethical person than them. But when he defends oversigning and grayshirting, he opens the door wide open for them to say they are doing nothing wrong and that they too are having honest conversations with recruits.

              So what Richt should do is drop the defense of it and ditch the practice.

              There is absolutely no need for it.

          • Texas_Dawg

            No, it’s not “up to” them to make the changes.

            Yes, they should. But even if they don’t, there is nothing stopping UGA from doing the right thing and making it very clear that grayshirting and oversigning are no longer permitted of its employees. Will Muschamp recently did exactly this saying he will never grayshirt. Coach Richt can and should do the same.

        • Macallanlover

          What an ignorant, biased comment on race. Both white and black kids have dreams crushed at this level, and every marginal kid (and that is the ones involved here) is vulnerable to this practice. When will people stop with letting race dictate their comments? It is the 21st century, but you seem to want to live in the 19th. Guess you missed the 20th altogether. It doesn’t matter the state, or the region of the country, this comes down to the individual coach/program, not race. Truth is, there are many more black adults responsible for the failings and missed opportunities of black youths.

          Oversigning is wrong, the leaders in the sport need to step up and address it. Confusing the issue by bringing up points that are neither relevant, or accurate is counter productive.

          • Texas_Dawg

            How cute.

            As an educated white Southerner I’m well aware of that cute little trick and like all of us learned that little talking point at a young age as well.

            Fortunately I grew up and traveled around a little and came to realize how stupid that line is.

            Look I fully understand why you and most white Southerners want to pretend 2011 just popped out of a vacuum and pretend nothing that preceded it matters. If we can bargain our way into that clean slate, hey, we’re all good, right?

            Sorry, but history and details matter. You can pretend that attempts to exploit affluent people of significant economic, educational, and community resources are absolutely no different than attempts to exploit communities greatly impoverished by the people who preceded you, but I’m more interested in dealing with reality. Even if its details are too painful for you to handle.

            • Macallanlover

              Yes, you are the only white Southerner who is well read, and traveled. What a dork. It is a shame you didn’t comprehend what you have read and seen. But I am sure you are right because so many think like you. For God sakes let’s not hold anyone accountable in this country, let’s blame their circumstances, or perhaps their forefathers’ circumstances. You can ride that train for eternity and all you will get is a continuation of the problem. Step up to the issue man. Opportunities are available to all that are not born with severe debilitating birth defects, and even many of those find a way to win. Race isn’t the reason people win or fail in the United States, or in any region within the US. Stop using that excuse and pointing fingers. Bigotry and racism seems to have flip-flopped these days.

    • I’m not sure which years he is referring to in which he oversigned and considered using grayshirts since UGA hasn’t been oversigned in several years.

      He was prepared to do it with this most recent class.

      • Texas_Dawg

        Yep.

        I was working off what I had been told by McGarity about what was being done.

        So you were right, and I was wrong.

        My interest here isn’t in making excuses for Richt or denying bad behavior at my alma mater. It’s in my alma mater distancing itself from a practice that brings it virtually zero benefit and is increasingly associated with what a large and quickly growing number of CFB observers and outsiders rightfully view as a repulsive scheme.

        Pushing that envelope at such an extreme (the 85th, 86th, 87th player…) is beyond dumb. Well, at least at any serious university which I would like Georgia to be.

        • sUGArdaddy

          Texas, what high horse do you ride to work on?

          Mark Richt is about as ethical a man as you or I will ever meet. I just don’t understand the way Richt handles this is wrong on any level. He is completely up front with kids and doesn’t make it a regular practice. Basically, he uses it on kids that we might not have room for at that position and says: “We’ve got a spot for you, I just can’t promise you it’s in August or January.” The bottom line is that most of those kids could go to Ole Miss or South Carolina and be assurred a spot in August, but they want to come to Georgia. Why is it HIS problem if he’s honest with kids who want to be Bulldogs?

          And how in the world can you not see the advantage of having more quality players on campus. And, essentially, it’s not number 86, 87, or 88 because you can only have 85 at one time any way you slice it. Those guys are not eligible to practice or play during their grayshirt. Basically, we’re saying that we want them to mature and develop for another year before they’re ready, and we’re honest with them on that. I don’t see what’s wrong with that at all and I don’t even think it’s ethically questionable.

          We don’t pull scholly offers. We don’t revoke current schollies. We don’t oversign and bait & switch. We are the most ethically responsible recruiters in College Football. And that is not hyperbole. Florida can hold a candle to the kind of morals Richt uses in recruiting. And I could care less if they’ve decided not to grayshirt. That’s probably because Muschamp doesn’t have the cajones to just be upfront and honest about it like Richt does.

          And FWIW, the kid we were going to grayshirt in this past class…is white.

          • Texas_Dawg

            Mark Richt is about as ethical a man as you or I will ever meet. I just don’t understand the way Richt handles this is wrong on any level. He is completely up front with kids and doesn’t make it a regular practice

            Again, you completely missed the point.

            I never said Richt wasn’t very ethical. He says he does his grayshirting ethically… and Les Miles, Nick Saban, and Houston Nutt say they do their grayshirting ethically as well.

            So here we are.

            Probably best to just not grayshirt. It brings us little benefit but lumps us in with a bunch of inferior schools and obviously very unethical coaches.

            That’s why Florida is now publicly saying they will no longer consider grayshirts. Georgia needs to do the same.

  4. Mayor of Dawgtown

    Hey, I don’t like grayshirting or oversigning any more than anyone else who posts on this blog regularly but the points I have made in the past and will continue to make are: (1) Oversigning is allowed by the current rules. (2) Oversigning works or else the bad guys wouldn’t do it. (3) Having 25-30 extra recruits go through you program obviously is a tremendous advantage (see Bama, Auburn and LSU). (4) If your rivals are doing it and you are not you are at a decided disadvantage. Every one of you moralists will be screaming for CMR to be fired if he has another 6-7 season so let’s cut the crap. If the NCAA or the SEC do not outlaw the practice then the University of Georgia football program better start doing it–and soon–or we will be fighting UK for the 4th spot in the SEC East from now on.

    • Texas_Dawg

      Are you a UGA graduate or employee?

      Or just a fan of its sports teams?

      • Mayor of Dawgtown

        Are you a UGA graduate or employee? Or a Tech nerd trying to advocate destroying UGA’s football program?

        • Texas_Dawg

          UGA grad. (Your turn.)

          Or a Tech nerd trying to advocate destroying UGA’s football program?

          Are you seriously this dense?

          The exact opposite is the case. Wake up.

          Alabama and these pathetic SEC West schools (as well as South Carolina) live off of this scheme. That’s nice Richt says he does it very infrequently and ethically and I hope he’s telling the truth about that, but the fact of the situation is that Georgia gains a very, very, very tiny fraction of what these other schools gain from leaving this huge loophole open. We haven’t even used the option in several years while Alabama has oversigned by 24 fonking players over the past 2 seasons alone.

          You are sitting here playing useful idiot for Nick Saban by arguing for his lifeline. He must sit back and laugh his ass off at UGA fans like you.

  5. S.E. Dawg

    I think CMR will make an exception on greyshirting if the class is full and the kid in question truly wants to be a Bulldog with all his heart. If he know it’s in the players heart then I think he will do it.

    • Mayor of Dawgtown

      You mean, if the kid “truly wants to be a Bulldog with all his heart” and runs a 4.4 forty.

    • Texas_Dawg

      And Nick Saban, Houston Nutt, Les Miles say they will do the same.

      Bad idea. Let’s turn around and go in the other direction, as Florida has recently announced they will do. We are at the edge of a limit past which brings us virtually zero upside… and all kinds of downside.

      • Mayor of Dawgtown

        The University of Florida is in a different situation than UGA. It is the leading university athletically in a state with almost 20,000,000 people and has the first pick of all of the best players in that state. FLA can get away with promising to not grayshirt, oversign, etc. in the face of others that do but UGA cannot. Guys like you will have the program in the crapper if the school did what you want.

        • Texas_Dawg

          FLA can get away with promising to not grayshirt, oversign, etc. in the face of others that do but UGA cannot. Guys like you will have the program in the crapper if the school did what you want.

          You are absolutely clueless on this issue.

          Seriously. Utterly, completely, 100% clueless.

          First of all, Greg McGarity has made ending it a primary goal of his at the upcoming SEC meetings. He has joined Bernie Machen in calling it “morally reprehensible” and saying it is something Georgia will not do. Michael Adams completely supports him on this as well.

          Secondly, Georgia has not oversigned in years and has never done it to any great extent under Richt. Meanwhile, Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, South Carolina, and Arkansas regularly oversign by 6-15 players every single year. They are gaining 5 to even 6 recruiting classes for every 4 that we get. 20 to 40 more players than Georgia from which to choose every 4 years.

          So you are arguing that Georgia could not compete without having the option of doing something it very rarely does and does to an extent that is far, far less than most SEC schools. It is certainly nothing that gives us any advantage on Florida as we sign the same number of players they do on average.

          Instead of just posting about something you very clearly know nothing about, why don’t you stop and figure out how you got so spun around on this one?

          • Mayor of Dawgtown

            Excuse me but where were you the last 2 years. Certainly not watching SEC football it would appear. I don’t like grayshirting or oversigning either. It’s just that everyone else that is successful in football in the SEC is doing it. Get it outlawed or do it ourselves is all I’m saying. Are you are in favor of unilateral nuclear disarmament, too?

            • Texas_Dawg

              Um, Florida has recently won 2 MNCs without any grayshirts or oversigning. Maybe you are the one who needs to pay better attention.

              • It’s not like Meyer was opposed to greyshirting, though.

              • Mayor of Dawgtown

                TD, you have finally convinced me. After reading what you have to say I am totally in favor of UGA oversigning and grayshirting (as well as blueshirting, the coming thing) to the max. If a dope like you is against it, then it must be the thing to do as your are wrong almost 100% of the time with what you say on this blog.

      • sUGArdaddy

        Texas, we got it. You want us to be like Florida.

        I just don’t see how you say that it virtually zero upside when it obviously does. If you can get a kid that you want in the current class but just don’t have room for him in that year’s class, how is that not an upside. Especially if it stops him from going to a rival school where he could beat you for 3-4 years.

        There is always upside to getting good players. To me, at least, you’re taking a moral high-ground that I just don’t see as necessary. You’re making an arbitrary decision that grayshirting is morally apprehensible when I don’t think it is. I think it’s morally apprehensible to lie. Mark Richt doesn’t lie to kids.

        And you are making a snap judgment that you think the practice has no upside because that fits your argument, when it obviously does.

        And I am a graduate and have been an employee of the AA. I DO care about our moral standing and academic reputation, but I don’t see how this affects either. Grayshirts can be 4.0 students. What you’re saying is just like saying we shouldn’t take transfers or JUCOs “because we ought not have to.” I just don’t get it.

        I’ll take CMRs moral code over Boom MFr’s and Foley’s. I just don’t care what Florida has said or pronounced. I just don’t think there’s anyone but you that cares.

        It’s like saying, “Just best not to run a fake punt because if lumps us in with a bunch of tricky coaches, and we don’t want to be tricky.” If you think 1 grayshirt kid can make one play that helps you win 1 game 4 years down the road…then it’s worth it. I just don’t see anything wrong with telling him that up front.

        • Texas_Dawg

          I don’t want us to be like Florida. I want us to be like the numerous reputable universities that refuse to engage in this.

          And yes, the benefits are very, very small while the downsides are huge. Among other things, you run the risk of having a grayshirted player publicly say he was lied to about the risks and you sacrifice the moral high ground you have in the argument against the schools trashing the reputation of SEC schools by oversigning.

          Why are you so desperate to pursue an 86th, 87th, 88th player? Florida isn’t. Texas isn’t. USC isn’t. Not only are those better football programs than ours, they are also better universities. Sorry, but I would rather align myself with respected universities… instead of chasing after Alabama et al., the bottom of the barrel of American public state schools, both in academics and ethical reputation.

          Nick Saban and his fans love that you and so many Georgia fans defend grayshirting and oversigning. They eat it up. And why wouldn’t they? You are giving them all they need to keep this extremely critical lifeline of theirs wide open.

          • sUGArdaddy

            You miss the point entirely and need to pick an argument. Grayshirting and Oversigning are 2 VERY different issues. Oversigning is apprehensible and something that I’m totally against. Oversigning implies lies and has with the repercussions that current or new players will be pushed out. UGA should never do that. So, I’m not looking at those as one and the same. Richt doesn’t oversign and he doesn’t lie to recruits.

            Grayshirting is simply saying, “Son, we’ve got 85 schollies. We don’t see you fitting into that 85 until next year. If you want to sit out the fall, we’d love to have you then.” What’s wrong with that? You’re not pushing any guys out and you’re being honest.

            They’re 2 very different. And…with attrition from early graduations, giving up football, kicked off team and academically ineligible, it sometimes works out that they DO get to come in with their class. Then, instead of 82 or 83 scholly players you’ve got 85.

            I do not condone or support oversigning and something needs to be done about Saban, but I just don’t see grayshirting in the same light.

            And I’d love for us to be lumped in with those other schools. Could you create a population explosion that would allow us the natural recruiting base like the state schools of Florida, Texas and California have?

            And, just for future reference, while Florida, USC, and Texas may have had recent success, but their most recent seasons aren’t something to be admired and the guys that oversign are, uh, well, winning championships.

            In the end, you’re way more worried about it than me. It’s bad for kids, but we have a coach that is completely transparent and honest in a cut-throat and deceitful industry. I think this year’s class was a sign that moms and dads are getting a clue that what Mark Richt says can be taken to the bank and I think H.S. coaches are catching on, too. Should we lead the charge to get it changed? Sure, why not. But, ultimately, I think honesty and the truth wins. I think there’s something in the Book about ‘setting you free.’

            If Oversigning as a practice is outlawed, I’ll be pleased. But if it is not, I’m content with the way Mark Richt handles grayshirting. I just can’t see how you can’t see the bright line the Senator talks about.

  6. Texas_Dawg

    IveyLeaguer:

    You are confusing Oversigning, as practiced by the SEC West and South Carolina, with Grayshirting. Yes, Grayshirting, by definition, technically requires signing one or even several more than you have room for.

    No, I am talking about oversigning. Richt said that he sometimes signs more than he has room for and tells those players they may have to grayshirt if enough players don’t leave, quit, whatever.

    I realize that is not oversigning to the extent that other SEC programs do it, but it is still oversigning. We can debate whether oversigning by 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 or 20 is right or wrong, but 1 over is oversigning by 1.

    To do what you are arguing for would be STUPID, and totally uncalled for.

    And Nick Saban thanks you for your help.

    • Sorry, but that’s argumentative. And ridiculous on it’s face. I think you’re playing games. It’s either that, or you really don’t know what you’re doing.

      I regret taking the time to discuss the issue with you.
      ~~~

    • Serious question for you, TD. Can’t we draw a fairly bright line between a recruit being told before NSD that he’ll have to greyshirt versus a situation when the recruit isn’t told about greyshirting until after NSD?

      • Can’t we draw a fairly bright line between a recruit being told before NSD that he’ll have to greyshirt versus a situation when the recruit isn’t told about greyshirting until after NSD?

        No, because that would require a reasonable conclusion that doesn’t fit within the tightly defined “all or nothing” boundaries that have been set by TD w/respect to oversigning. Either that or he’ll just call you a racist, an Alabama supporter, or take some other personal shot at you because you dared to take a reasonable stance that isn’t the exact one he does.