Kicking a thug while he’s down

This is harsh, man.

“I don’t want to put any pressure on them, but losing that guy may have been the best thing to happen to them,” said Dooley, who coached the Bulldogs to six SEC championships and one national title in 25 seasons. “It was a bad-apple type thing, if you ask me.”

“Bad apple” was the second term Dooley used to describe Crowell’s effect on the team. The first was more effective but he asked me not to use it.

Two observations that emerged from Dooley’s great football mind, as Towers refers to it, beg for counterpoints.  First off, I find it interesting that the factual support Dooley cites for his supposition that early player departures can have a positive effect on a Georgia team – “Historically when things like this have happened in the past, they tend to have a unifying effect on teams. They go on to have an even better season than they were predicted to have.” – was from the Butts era.  Funny how Dooley forgot about this more recent exit from Athens.  Or, maybe not.

Second, comparing any Georgia back to Herschel Walker is a disservice, but as far as Dooley’s point about Crowell getting weaker in the fourth quarter, what other options does he think Richt had?  The only player on the team who averaged more than Crowell’s 4.03 yards per fourth quarter carry was Ken Malcome, and his sample size is a little suspect.  Only two Georgia backs managed to rush the ball more than twenty times in a game last year.  Brandon Harton did it against Kentucky.  Weak, “had enough” Isaiah Crowell accomplished that three times.

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74 Comments

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74 responses to “Kicking a thug while he’s down

  1. Go Dawgs!

    Richt not having other options certainly doesn’t negate the opinion that Crowell got weaker as games went on.

    • I don’t know if it negates it, but it renders it pretty meaningless.

      • Go Dawgs!

        Well, it does make his advice about only using him in the second half pretty stupid, but that was a stupid point regardless. I don’t think it’s a great idea to take one of your best players and leave them on the bench in the first half just so they’ll be fresh in the second when we might be down 30 points.

        Still, Isaiah did seem to get weaker as games went on. Granted, that’s a small sample size because he had trouble even getting to the end of a game.

        • AthensHomerDawg

          Per second half game plans:
          There was that overtime game …. against Auburn. One of the first long distance games. Edwards came in late (2nd half I believe and well rested) ….. I think Bobo sat in lieu of a pre-med student. Torin Kirsey did well. We won………. Kirsey was punted after that season. He kept disabling the smoke alarm. Everyone thought he was headed to uSC.

  2. Rebar

    I guess Dooley doesn’t want to remember Jake Scott leaving and going to Canada because Dooley would have to admit that he lied to Jake about the bowl game. Jake’s leaving didn’t pull that team together.

    • 69Dawg

      Amen brother, that Sugar Bowl was awful. The team played like they wanted to be somewhere else and you could tell. They did have a good time in the French Quarter though.

  3. Gravidy

    So Dooley used a word and asked Chip not to use it. Chip’s solution was not to name the word specifically, but to go out of his way to mention that a less-than-supportive term had been uttered. Nice job, Chip. I hope your future interview requests are handled with this incident in mind.

  4. Bevo

    This article is unnecessary in so many ways.

    • Agreed. I’m puzzled why Dooley felt the need to opine publicly on the matter.

      • Gravidy

        I’m similarly puzzled, Senator.

      • No One Knows You're a Dawg

        I think it was just because he was asked and he enjoys being in the news. He should have said “no comment” as no good for UGA comes from giving this story another day of life.

        I haven’t clicked on the link to the story-that’s how much I don’t want to encourage this sort of thing by the media, especialy the AJC-but it seems like Towers was faced with having to write a story during a dead time for football news and decided toget an easy story by calling Dooley for a reaction.

        • Mayor of Dawgtown

          I hope the same reporter will call Dooley for his reaction after SOD gets fired by UT. And then call him again a week later. Then call him again the week after that.

      • JonDawg

        I think the important fact people are over-looking, at by reading Dooley’s entire interview, one could easily make the assumption he was watching quite a bit of Dawgs.. He’s still got it in em. :)

      • The man’s diarrhea of the mouth makes me think he’s angling for a broadcasting career once he’s out at UT. Surely he knows he probably doesn’t have long.

    • Coweta Dawg

      I guess stories like this are necessary to generate more hits to ajc.com. Sad.

  5. Macallanlover

    It totally escapes me why people run from the term “thug”, or worse, attempt to characterize it in a sinister light such as branding it as racism. (Those same people endorse racism from certain political groups while branding other as racists. Safe to say, “racist” as a label is more misused than “thug”.) I don’t know if IC is a thug or not, but the term is defined by Websters as “a cheat, rogue” and later as “a rough, brutal hoodlum, gangster, robber, etc.”

    When I was growing up, the term “thug” was almost always applied to whites, usually mafiosa gangsters working for the mob. I feel some in black culture have since adopted the term “gangsta” and perhaps the bleed over began there. Or, it could just be “thug” is used to apply to people on the other side of the law. Regardless, I never felt, and still don’t, feel the term “thug” is applied racially. I certainly don’t think IC was a rough bully, just the opposite in fact. But he certainly was on the wrong side of the rules and regulations several times so perhaps it fits as being a bad guy. And to say it is racist because a player with a spotless record for behavior makes a foolish decision while drinking wasn’t called a thug is hardly relevant. I still think of thugs as bad guys, usually white, but I can see why the term is being applied more to blacks these days. Doesn’t make it racist, just shows it can apply equally.

    We need to focus on the players that are left. I agree with VD on this, UGA will be better for this, and I know there are those who don’t agree. The team last year seemed to be struggling with how to make a square peg fit into a round hole. At a point that is wasted energy relative to the return. He is gone, let’s support those left who want to help the team succeed. I feel we have enough talent at RB with, or without IC. We are without, time to pray for the OL to open holes for whomever is willing to run hard and hold onto the ball for UGA. Sir Charles would say we spent way to much on Crowell, and got very little for it….he would be right CMR had little choice, and did the right thing even if he had been given options. Move on along.

    • Mac, giving you the benefit of the doubt here, but the vast majority of folks who use the term these days don’t use it in the way that you do.

      • Macallanlover

        But how? It is a bad guy (bad being not in a good sense). Thugs are people on the wrong side of things, and it doesn’t matter what color or nationality you are. Who wants to be around people who are getting in trouble themselves, or will drag you down with them if you don’t separate? I don’t, and I don’t knowingly associate with people who do. I am no shrinking violent here, but why would anyone not call bad behavior for what it is, or do something about it? If there are no consequences for breaking rules, how do we ever get out of the current rut this society is in? Seriously. Making wrongdoers pay is mandatory, I just don’t think we (as a society) have done enough. I certainly wish other CFB programs, and the NFL would do their part.

        • gastr1

          Mac, language is a living thing. The word has taken on a different meaning. There’s nothing you or I can do about it except wait for the new word to take its place.

    • fuelk2

      Yes, Mac. And “gay” mean happy, right?

      To the point of the story, I imagine some are overjoyed about Crowell leaving and some aren’t. At least that’s the way it looks from the public reactions of the players. I’d say Stripling, not so happy. Garrison Smith is probably fine with it.

      • Macallanlover

        Sorry, I see your trying to link it but I don’t think that is an apples to apples comparison. The term thug has, and can still be, applied to all races. Those attempting to make it a race issue are ignoring the reality of it having nothing to do with race. Let the term fit anyone, it has no basis in race that I can see. (India has a strong connection to the word. Would make more sense to link them in.) I might be past my prime as an athlete but it doesn’t mean I haven’t been paying attention to changes. That doesn’t mean I have to let others define things.

        • gastr1

          No, it’s exactly apples to apples. You don’t want to see the apple, is all.

          • Macallanlover

            Dead wrong gastri, or perhaps it is you who is blind, it’s all in your perspective. You don’t have to play the cards you are dealt if you don’t like them. I choose to not let others dictate my life’s choices and it is working just fine….better than what I see others allow.

            • gastr1

              So you go around referring to black folks as “colored”? Young women as “damsels”? Choose away– don’t those crazy times get in your way!

              • Uglydawg

                Good grief. Senator, you should create a new “file catagory” …”Much ado about nothing”.

    • Dog in Fla

      For Pete’s sake, Mac, get with the ’90′s

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thug

    • AthensHomerDawg

      It’s cultural thing. It’s cool to be …..>>>>>>> that. I don’t believe Cro-ell is a thug. Not really. Sure he wants to sell that … he needs that persona—-identity?. He is a wanna be. Why is it attractive? Read “Shaker Heights”. I hate it but at the end of the day it is somehow important.

      The real thugs….”Jump to: navigation, search
      Thuggee Group of Thugs.gif
      Group of thugs ca. 1894
      Founded before 1356
      Named after Hindi word for thief
      Founding location Central India
      Years active ~450 years
      Territory India
      Ethnicity Indian
      Criminal activities Murder, robbery
      Look up Thuggee in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

      Thuggee (Hindi: ठग्गी or ṭhagī; Urdu: ٹھگ; Sanskrit: sthaga), also known as tuggee or simply thugs, was a religious cult and an organized gang of professional assassins who traveled in groups across India for several hundred years. They were first mentioned in the Ẓiyāʾ-ud-Dīn Baranī (English: History of Fīrūz Shāh) dated around 1356.[1] In the 1830s they were targeted by William Bentinck, along with his chief captain William Henry Sleeman, for eradication. They were seemingly destroyed by this effort.[2]

      The thugs would join travellers and gain their confidence. This would allow them to then surprise and strangle them by tossing a handkerchief or noose around their necks. The killings were performed in honour of the goddess Kali and were very ritualistic.[2] They would then rob the bodies of valuables and bury them. This led them to also be called Phansigar (English: using a noose), a term more commonly used in southern India.[3] ”

      Well there you go. I had Indian neighbors as a college kid. I was well fed.

      • Dog in Fla

        They must have been from northern India

        • Macallanlover

          Does that mean they don’t cook, or season, their veggies enough?

          • Dog in Fla

            It means they were not geographically predisposed to strangle AthensHomerDawg

            • AthensHomerDawg

              I didn’t get strangled …… it was an eye opener. Lot of curry and sour cream. Their oldest son went on to Harvard med school. The second son went to got his MBA somewhere. No thugs though. When we all look back at our time in college I look back at that relationship with a lot of fondness.

            • gastr1

              Southern Indian…yum. “DONUTS”

              If any of you ever makes a road trip to Arkansas, they have an Indian place there that is one of the best in the eastern half of the US, no joke. (Southern and Northern served.)

      • The other Doug

        Mr Twain does an excellent job writing about the Thuggee in “Following the Equator”.

    • Dawgfan Will

      I would think that the reason some call it racist is because it is generally used in reference to players who are discipline problems who are also black (at least on the blogs I frequent). Thinking back to, say, Ealey and Mettenberger’s problems, I remember the word “thug” quite clearly in reference to Ealey, but not with Mett. Not to say Mett wasn’t called a thug.

      That said, I agree with you that it is a term that can apply to any individual.

      • Dog in Fla

        T-Pain and a white chick look for Washaun in a parking garage

      • AthensHomerDawg

        The N word becomes a racial slur only if you or I use it.
        OK?
        I don’t want any trouble!

      • Macallanlover

        It is “generally used” because that is where the majority of crimes come from. Doesn’t have to be that way, it is a choice some make and is often due to what is tolerated. Unfortunately in the black community, their is an almost total lack of leadership setting higher standards/values. This is a solvable problem if folks step up to it. You don’t excuse bad behavior, you step up to it. Look at the number of times Ealey turned his back on authority and repeated his actions, very much like IC. They didn’t do that because they were black, they did that because they did not respect authority and rules. Their choice, their loss.

        • Dawgfan Will

          But if a white kid makes the same sort of mistake (or worse, in my opinion, in Mett’s case), why then is the word thug not as readily used to describe him? I think it’s a legitimate question.

    • Dawgfan Will

      Now that I think of it, a linguistics undergrad could put together a pretty interesting study of the word in relation to race. I’d read it.

  6. sniffer

    ..”That is, if the Bulldogs are still able to field a team”.. Chip, what the hell?

  7. stoopnagle

    He had to go all the way back to the Butts Era? Like, Quincy Carter didn’t cross his mind?

  8. Todd

    Lattimore didn’t seem to get tired. He is a tough RB. A smiling “hurt” Crowell on the sidelines is forever sticking with me.

  9. Will Trane

    Why would anyone with UGA athletics, current or past, discuss anything with Chip Towers and the AJC is beyond me. Why not discuss what the interview was to be about and leave it at that. Of course I do not think that was Tower’s objective all along. How long can you string out a story at the AJC about Georgia players…forever if is detrimental to the program. How many times do you think this will come in a couple of weeks at the SEC media days and CMR has to respond to it.

    Coach Dooley should have borrowed the line from the Chisox baseball announcer…”he be gone”…period.

  10. Snookie

    Hey look, I don’t post much and enjoy the blog and most of the comments, so, I’m not trying to pick apart anyone else’s opinion or words…

    Seems to me the context here might be Dooley responding to an off-handed question. In that respect, can you blame the guy for answering a question? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. I dunno, but after reading the story, it didn’t strike me that Dooley was sought out on his opinion about the former running back.

    But, it sure seems like Crowell left a pile of garbage in his wake and while “moving on” might be good in theory we all know that ain’t gonna happen. An awful lot of us were let down by this guy and I can’t help but feel that #1 on that list is Mark Richt. Whether it pops up here or somewhere else in the media over the next few months. I can’t help but feel that, as Georgia fans, Crowell is baggage we’re gonna have to carry-even the players too – for a while. Maybe a few wins will cure that. You don’t think if this team gets off to a slow start against Mizzou and loses to Southernmost Carolina all this stuff won’t come up again?

    Having said all this, I agree, Chip musta felt like he never really got is .02 in about the Crowell situation until it fell in his lap

    • Mayor of Dawgtown

      No Snookie, VD didn’t get HIS two cents in about the Crowell situation until it fell in his lap.

  11. ChicagoDawg

    On is left to wonder if Papa Dooley is imparting this same wisdom upon SOD’s kid gloves treatment of Da’Rick Rogers?

    I am gonna go out on a limb here and vote no.

  12. gastr1

    Where is IveyLeaguer when we need him to sort out the exact details of cancers & gossip and then take credit for having invented it all?

  13. Hogbody Spradlin

    “Early player departures” having a positive effect? The 1983 team was a pretty good example. Richt’s first squad, after disposing of Quincy Carter, was another decent example.

    I nominate “cancer” as the word Vince didn’t want repeated. That’s a pretty au courant word for players who are bad influences on a team.

    • Dog in Fla

      If so, Vince stole that from IveyLeaguer who coined the term in 2008 so it’s not quite au courant. Just ask gastr1

      • AusDawg85

        Which means VD has been reading GTP since 2008. If that includes Barbara, then we are all screwed!

      • gastr1

        Where is the dude now to stake his claim and collect his royalties? O, the cruel, cold world of reality, and all that which keeps a good poet from his just desserts…

  14. Scott W.

    Vince is tryin’ to get his Finebaum on!

  15. Uglydawg

    The dog’s dead and the hunt’s over.
    We are left to accept Coach Richt’s wisdom and judgement on this. Since he did dismiss IC from the program, I’m going to accept that he was beyond being a positive or even a neutral influence on the team.
    IC will still get his opportunity to make his splash somewhere and eventually make millions in the NFL. It’s his decision.

  16. Cosmic Dawg

    I think the reason “thug” gets used more often with bad-acting black folks – and Mac aside, I think it is a term more often applied to blacks – is that in a bizarr0-world kind of comic book gangster-Dick Tracy way, there is a portion of black anti-society that has taken the gangsta [thug] posture as its identity…as somebody pointed out above.

    I understand that part of the trouble people without means have is that they embrace the society’s goal (wealth and power) but they often don’t have the means or training or guidance or whatever to get there. So if the Cowboys won’t have you, you may as well go all-out Indian and whoop it up. I totally get that. So if the poor black kid has two strikes against him where the poor white kid only has one strike against him, he goes gangsta. Sorry if the term “thug” offends, but let’s face it, if the term “thug” was in vogue as a self-descripter in rap culture and folks used the term “gangster” disparagingly we’d be having the same conversation, just with different words.

    And I don’t know that there is a similarly large and visible cross-section of white anti-society that self-identify in that particular way – who get a *collective* identity and sense of power from emulating styles, phrases, etc of criminal behavior.

    It’s kind of why you wouldn’t call a black racist a Nazi, even in shorthand. We usually think of Nazis as a subculture of white racists, even if they are not technically Nazi party members.

    For instance, a black, white collar criminal would certainly not get called a thug, but a dull-eyed white knucklehead with a grafitti t-shirt and a sideways Raiders ball cap could *very* easily be called a thug…that image comes into my mind *almost* (if I’m honest) as quickly as his black counterpart.

    I think it has more to do with the urban gangster-gangsta culture (as somebody pointed out above) evolving than race *for the most part*. I think there are some racist overtones there, but in fairness it may have been just as much the fault of the gangsta subculture that put them there.

    If you don’t like being called a redneck, stop emulating rednecks.

  17. Bulldog Joe

    Coach Dooley doesn’t have to be a politician anymore and he’s telling it like it is.

    Looking back, the negative motivation given to me on and off the field had a greater impact on turning my life around than the positive motivation.

    Many of us could use a good brutally-honest kick in the ass.