Home field advantage

I’m fine with gun ownership in general, but damn if this doesn’t make me uneasy:

The policy comes a little more than two weeks after Alabama Act 2013-283 went into effect on August 1. The law, which was written as SB-286 and signed into law in May, overhauled the law of the land concerning guns in some places and clarified them in others. The waters are muddied, though, about where the rights of gun owners end and the rights of property owners begin.

In one area, the law says gun owners with a concealed carry permit are allowed to carry weapons to athletic events, regardless of whether they’re hosted professionally or by a school. However, the law also gives property owners the right to ban firearms in places where there are strong security measures, such as guards.

The discrepancy has left many asking which part of the law supersedes the other — are gun owners allowed to carry at athletic events that have additional security measures, like to a football game in Jordan-Hare or Bryant-Denny, or not?

The matter may have to be decided in court. Many gun owners have read the law and believe they’d be in the right to have their pistols on campus…

I mean, guns, tailgating and college football.  What could possibly go wrong?

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97 Comments

Filed under Whoa, oh, Alabama

97 responses to “Home field advantage

  1. Dolly Llama

    Ask N.C. State what could go wrong, Senator.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-641233.html

    And our crazy-ass legislature just legalized guns on campus, where I work, albeit just ones secured in vehicles for now. The gun nuts on campus are disappointed they can’t pack heat everywhere, but I’ve told them this is just another step toward concealed carry everywhere …

  2. greeneggboy

    Seems like a pretty good incentive for Penn Wagers. Is that crossing the line?

  3. Tatum

    I remembered this from my time living in Birmingham (2000-2008). You cannot understand the insanity unless you have been surrounded by it.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1626939

  4. RP

    OK, I’ll agree. Guns at the Iron Bowl prolly not a good idea. On the plus side, it would move a lot of people on the BAMA season ticket wait list up each year.

  5. Irishdawg

    With the constant threat of active shooters on college campuses, I think letting CCW holders have them in the cars is a good idea. With the constant threat of foaming psychosis of Alabama and LSU fans, I think letting them have them at football games is a wretched idea.

  6. Normaltown Mike

    Hate to break it to you, but there are already numerous guns on persons and in vehicles at every SEC football game now.

  7. AthensHomerDawg

    I don’t think it would be a good idea to arm fans at tailgates.

  8. JRod1229

    First thing I thought of (outside of Verne’s size):

  9. Scorpio Jones,III

    In Tennessee, you can bring yer gun into a bar. The gun makers are soooo happy, the NRA feels righteous…I am thinking maybe I want to quit drinking.

    • AmericusDawg

      North Carolina also recently decided that it’s alright for CCW in bars as long as the owner doesn’t put up a sign on the door stating otherwise.

  10. uglydawg

    If anyone started shooting things up at any SEC tailgate party, they would quickly meet their demise….Lots of people…responsible people…are carrying….”Just in case”. And that would be the “case”.

    • All I can say is that if gunfire ever breaks out near my tailgate, “just in case” or otherwise, that’ll be my last trip to a Georgia game.

      I didn’t sign up for that shit.

      • JRod1229

        That would almost certainly signal the end of tailgating as we know it at UGA as well. Or anywhere for that matter. I’m not surprised this has never happened at home/away games.. but at WLOCP I am a bit more surprised.

      • uglydawg

        And it’s really nothing to joke about…but even sadder is the way we’re letting meatheaded idiots force us into reclusiveness. I’d still go…I still fly on airplanes and enter banks…I drive through rough parts of town and I occasionally direct criticism toward my wife..Living on the edge..or as they say in Carolina, “Live Free or Die”.

  11. Bryant Denny

    There was a reason I never took up dove shooting as a young ‘un. Me, my temper, Tide football and guns would never mix.

    Have a good day,

    BD

  12. Cojones

    How many on this blog carry concealed and into a stadium?

    • AlphaDawg

      I carry almost every day, and anyone without a trained eye wouldn’t notice it. There are several locations where CCP holders are not allowed to carry(I cannot carry on base), I have no issue withnot carrying at a game, but I can guareentee there’s a weapon in my car. And I can also say the majority of the guys I tailgate with (when able too) have handguns in their vehicles too.

    • Well…..never mind…. I know for sure that alcohol and firearms do not mix. A girl has to protect herself though…..you know.

  13. Hobnail_Boot

    This would potentially devastate attendance much more than affordable flat-screen TVs.

  14. Bulldawg165

    Would it not still be illegal for them to drink alcohol while carrying? Just to play devil’s advocate here, but if they’re willing to break the law to drink while carrying, they are probably willing to break the law and carry whether you want them to or not.

    Just because the NRA says “gun laws only apply to responsible, law abiding citizens” doesn’t mean it’s untrue.

    • Let me know how you feel about that if you’re ever on the receiving end of “stand your ground”.

      • If he’s ever legitimately on the receiving end of a Stand Your Ground law then he’ll have had it coming. Not sure why those laws get demonized so much.

        • “Legitimately” is in the eye of the beholder. It’s not some objective standard. That’s the problem with stand your ground laws.

          • Not disagreeing, but I’d rather take my chances knowing I’ll be protected from prosecution in the unlikely event I ever have to defend myself. Besides, it’s not like people are dropping like flies from self defense laws. These things get blown out of proportion and get all this national attention, but in reality they probably account for a fraction of a percent of gun deaths.

          • Bulldawg165

            In a football stadium full of witnesses? I’ll take my chances ;)

            • Who says it’ll happen in a stadium? And if you didn’t fire the first shot, how many witnesses do you think you’ll have in the middle of a crazed crowd?

              • Bulldawg165

                I thought we were talking about guns in football stadiums, not guns in general. You posed the hypothetical situation that I find myself on the receiving end of “stand your ground,” which I took to mean someone shot me in self defense. I’m pretty confident that such a scenario would be handled appropriately, given the large number of witnesses that saw everything leading up to the first shot.

                Regardless, I’ve had similar debates with numerous people. I didn’t come here to this blog to have another one. I really don’t see how either of us can get our points across without significantly extending the discussion and I’d rather spend my time this morning enjoying the anticipation of a new college football season. I understand and respect that it’s your blog and you can do what you want, but I’m going to move on from this and read some of your other posts. Don’t expect a response from me in this discussion. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

          • 81Dog

            isn’t that what juries are for? People have been killing each other since Cain and Abel. Some of them are justified, some of them aren’t. Any version of self defense depends on the reasonable fears of the person exercising the claimed right, and the reasonableness of the force used to defend oneself. I don’t think mixing football, alcohol and guns is a great idea, but the people who would be a problem aren’t exactly the rule followers anyway, are they?

            Don’t pick crap with people you don’t know and you won’t ever be on the “receiving end,” seems to me, whether they’re armed or unarmed. I’ve seen people get punched, kicked, beaten with blunt objects, etc. to death. Just sayin’…..

            • Solid advice, but what am I supposed to do if my tailgate gets strafed by a couple of morons who don’t take it? ;)

              • 81Dog

                have you and the crew considered investing in Kevlar? Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Maybe we should go into business marketing bulletproof spirit wear for college football fans. I gaaaaaaarONNNNNNNteeeeeeeee it will do a booming (see what I did there) bidness in the south. And Texas!

                Adapt and survive!

          • JonDawg

            Only because you brought politics up first (yes, you did), I would like to politely ask, why push the left’s attack on a law that wasn’t even used in the defense of the highly publicized case for which is the only reason you have ever heard of “Stand Your Ground” laws? Laws such as these (the CCW ones, and other various self-defense laws) are the reason if a maniac, or any other deranged individual tries to pull a mass-killing at an SEC tail-gate, it wouldn’t get very far at all. And that is why you haven’t seen anything like that happen already. If your neighbor shot a pyscho hell bent on murdering any/everybody, who was coming your direction, I guarantee you would be very appreciative. Why do you think shooter’s go to where the gun-free zones are? How obvious can all of this be?

        • Dog in Fla

          “Not sure why those laws get demonized so much.”

          Because anything that originates with ALEC is bad medicine

          “The group behind “Stand Your Ground” laws in a number of states… is the American Legislative Exchange Council, better known as ALEC, which likes to call itself a “nonpartisan public-private partnership” but is actually a corporate-backed enterprise that writes “model legislation” that its membership of nearly 2,000 conservative legislators use in states to pass laws that promote privatization in every part of American life: education, health care, the environment, the economy, etc.”

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/07/17/stand-your-ground-group-pushes-privatization-of-public-education/

  15. 69Dawg

    Hell last year a renta cop at UGA tried to take my son’s tiny Swiss Army Knife. We just went to another gate.

    • Bryant Denny

      Went to a Braves game last week…my brother-in-law was busted for having a pocket knife in his pocket…one ticket scanner hollers out “tell him to put it in his shoe.” Brother in law puts knife in his shoe, goes to another scanner and walks right in.

      • Normaltown Mike

        Years ago at Braves game, my wife was told she couldn’t bring her pepper spray attached to keys. “But I need this” she protested. Attendant pointed to a place in the fence to sit it and said “I can’t let you CARRY this through THIS gate” wink wink. We went through and retrieved pepper once inside.

      • That is why you have to remove your shoes at the Airport.

  16. Gravidy

    Senator, I don’t know why you put this kind of stuff on your otherwise stellar sports blog. Having said that, I’ll just say that it is exceedingly charitable of you to be “fine” with me exercising my Constitutional rights – “in general” of course.

  17. PTC DAWG

    It’s not the folks that are legal you need to worry about.

  18. Old DAWG

    If you post a sign at a beach that says “no sharks”, does that keep the sharks away? No. Why, because the sharks don’t care what the sign says. I’ll never understand why people don’t understand this concept. Criminals don’t care what the law says. Fear criminals, not law abiding citizens. BTW – I would not carry to a game because I drink before the game. Can’t carry and drink.

  19. W Cobb Dawg

    I grew up with the understanding guns were for hunting. Ever since one of my childhood friends was killed when his older bro was cleaning a gun (at least that’s what us kids were told), I’m always struck by how many kids are killed accidentally. But these days its not just guns, but military-assault weapons of every variety, and carried everywhere. Frankly, I find it very hard to tell the nuts from self-described law abiding owners. I think its a pretty dam sad situation and doesn’t reflect well on the mental health of any US citizen. If I see guns carried by the public at a game, you’ve seen the last of me and my $$.

    • Hackerdog

      Kids are much more likely to die from cars, pools, or poison than from guns. Even scary-looking guns.

      If people were really serious about child safety, they would want to do something about pools.

      • AlphaDawg

        It’s that damn Pool lobby and their scare tactics thats keeping gov’t from taking action.

      • JonDawg

        Pools and bicycles, two things you don’t need a license for, both of which kill more people a year than guns, and they’ll let any idiot have them. The problem with the stats on “gun violence” is it lumps suicide in with acts of violence committed against others. When NY gov A Cuomo (sp?) banned “assault rifles” , it was on the premise that they were especially dangerous. The year before the law was enacted, six people, i repeat, SIX people were killed by the so called “assault rifles” that he had spent so much money and political capital demonizing. Various other weapons killed many more people that year in the state of NY, such as hammers, fists, tire irons, trees falling, etc…

  20. Hackerdog

    You’re much more likely to die from a motor vehicle accident than from homicide by firearm. And there are roads all over campus including right next to the stadium. I mean, how close do we want these death machines to get to us? I say keep all roads at least 2 miles off campus so that our children can be safe from car accidents.

    • Good point, since everybody knows cars are built and used for the same purpose as handguns.

      • Dawgy45

        Gosh Senator, I feel so much better knowing that the injuries and long-term effects my dad suffered because he was hit by a drunk driver would have been much worse if that same drunk had shot him instead…all because the drunk’s car was built and used for a different purpose than a handgun.

        I’m sorry, but that’s just lame reasoning.

        • Good Lord, it would be if that were my reasoning.

          But since you want to delve into the comparison, if we are to assume that cars and guns are equally hazardous, why don’t we require the same level of licensing and insurance for weapons ownership that we do for vehicles?

          • Dawgy45

            I must have misunderstood your reasoning. Could you please clarify it?

            Why? Because one is a right and the other is a privilege. All legal comparisons end there.

            • It’s not an unfettered right. The Supreme Court said that gun ownership could be regulated. So no, comparisons don’t end there.

              • Dawgy45

                Has the SC found owning and operating a car to be a right on par with the right the keep and bear arms? Until they do, any comparison is flawed.

                So what was the reasoning behind pointing out that cars and guns are built for different purposes?

              • JonDawg

                Wrong. Every citizen has that right, until lost by court-order. Thats a pretty straight-up right. Freedom to move around is an unfettered right in this country right? Well you can also be incarcerated or committed, so yes a “right” can be taken away, Freedom of speech is guaranteed, but by court-order it can be silenced. As for your pretty weak defense you gave Dawgy45, I would say hazardous isn’t just realized in “potential”, but in actual real figures. There are currently estimated to be around 250,000,000 guns in circulation in the US, and about 220 million drivers, so if you take the number of wrecks with fatalities, against the number of murders (suicides don’t count, they could eat aspirin or jump off a bridge just as easily) well, you wouldn’t hitch your wagon to that defense.

                • 81Dog

                  Everyone has the right to travel. Everyone doesn’t have the right to a drivers license. It’s regulated on the front end, and revocable if you violate enough traffic laws in a specified window of time. You can still travel, you just can’t drive.

                  • Hackerdog

                    Violent felons and the mentally ill can have drivers licenses. And there’s no waiting period for drivers licenses.

      • Hackerdog

        Purpose and effect are two different things. Both cars and guns have beneficial purposes and effects. That doesn’t mean the harmful effects are non-existent.

        The similarity between guns and cars is that the beneficial effects outweigh the harmful effects. Sadly, many only want to focus on the harmful effects of guns and ignore the harmful effects of greater dangers to people, like cars.

        • Nice move from primary to beneficial. I ask you the same question I asked Dawgy45.

          • Hackerdog

            If your premise is that the primary purpose of a handgun is to harm another, I disagree.

            As to issues of legality and liability, the 2nd amendment bars some legislation. And it also doesn’t follow that legislators treat issues commensurate with the risk they present.

            • NRBQ

              What other purposes do they serve, Hack?

              Think you could feed your family on game you can kill with a .38 revolver?

              The original purpose of pistols was to kill or maim humans at close range.

              You damn sure can’t shoot skeet with one.

              • You can shoot a man before he rapes and kills you. Very comforting for a woman who lives alone, and needs to protect herself from murderers and rapist!

              • Hackerdog

                I think target practice is the primary use of handguns. I know I’ve never used mine for any other purpose.

                And you are wrong about hunting. People routinely hunt with handguns. Granted, it’s not as common as using long guns. But, plenty of folks do it.

                Even when discussing harming (or threatening) another with a handgun, much (most?) of the time, it’s done to protect. Thus, even the most potentially dangerous use of a handgun is still beneficial.

                • I am going to shoot a Rainbow Trout up here in this river, if I don’t catch one tomorrow. Helen, Georgia, where the waters very very cold. You know maybe I should just stab one with my swiss army knife. I’m having trout tomorrow….if GOD”S Willing and the hooch don’t rise.

  21. Dawgfan Will

    I think that in this day and age everybody pretty much agrees that drinking and driving do not mix. Why is it so hard to understand that drinking and firearms probably should not mix either?

    • Derek

      Some things aren’t meant to be discussed rationally. Guns are one of those things.

      Some people think you should be able to walk into the Capital Building in DC armed.

      Some people don’t think you should be allowed to have a shotgun in your home.

      Unfortunately, we have to live with both.

  22. Dog in Fla

    It does follow that legislators treat issues commensurate with the amount of money with which they are presented

    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/vote_2013.php

    • It’s always about the money. You cannot serve two masters, you cannot serve GOD and Money. So happy to see those who have served greed in my lifetime to now be suffering the consequences.

    • Hackerdog

      The gun control PACs could certainly teach the gun rights PACs a thing or two about keeping their politicians in line. All legislators who received money from gun control PACs voted in favor of the Manchin-Toomey amendment. Several legislators who received money from gun rights PACs still voted in favor of the amendment.

      Besides, influence is a good thing, right? I mean, all those unions and corporations who bought influence need to be exempted from Obamacare mandates and other nasty laws, right? Surely that’s not bad. The Democrats are doing it.

  23. DawgPhan

    So the day after a nut walks into a school with an AK 47 and 500 rounds someone of you can’t stop yourself from suggesting that more people be allowed to go more places with more guns. Congrats.

  24. DawgPhan

    here’s normaltown mike.