Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. But what if there’s more than one clock?

Dean Legge, with an interesting comparison…

Because, back to Justin Scott-Wesley and Nick Marshall, even though both players were charged with the same crime – possession of less than an ounce of marijuana – one was arrested (JSW) and one was ticketed (Marshall). So even though they were in the same state, the guy in Athens was taken to jail, and the guy arrested in Reynolds was given a ticket for $1,000. So if the punishment is not applied the same for the exact crime in the State of Georgia how in the world is the same crime going to be applied the same in all SEC jurisdictions?

In addition to that – it is very possible that JSW’s “ticket” for weed would have gone totally unnoticed by the press because of the simple way that the Athens-Clarke County jail report works. He would have been given a ticket, and likely paid it. No one would have never noticed his one-game suspension because he would still be coming back from his ACL injury that happened last October.

I’m not sure I buy that last point he makes completely – we found out about Marshall’s arrest quickly enough – but overall, there’s certainly some food for thought when it comes to advocating a universal drug policy for a conference.

About these ads

46 Comments

Filed under Crime and Punishment, Georgia Football

46 responses to “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. But what if there’s more than one clock?

  1. PTC DAWG

    Who were the victims in these so called “crimes”?

  2. joe

    I am not a guy who thinks that those who break the law should be let off; that said, why is JSW being taken to and booked in jail wasting taxpayers money when a simple ticket and fine would have sufficed?
    I will tell you why; The ACC Police do target athletes as does the UGA police. It is as if there is a “we got to show them that we are in charge” mentality exists in their respective departments.
    I have to wonder if the rest of the student population is also arrested for misdemeanor offenses.
    Complete crap. Fine them and if they don’t pay the fine then arrest them for not paying the fine. Otherwise its a misdemeanor at best.
    I will step off my soapbox.

    • PTC DAWG

      Well said, except it shouldn’t be a crime in the first place. University policy for Athletes, now that is a different story….

    • lawdawg15

      As to your comment on if the rest of the student population is also arrested for misdemeanor offenses. They are. Have you not noticed the paddy wagon parked downtown on gamedays? They load up about two dozen each weekend night on underage drinking, misd. pot possession, etc, and take them to jail. They then hire a local attorney who pleads them into pretrial diversion or probation, and about a quarter of the student population leaves UGA with a permanent reminder of beautiful Athens, Georgia in the form of a criminal background.

      If anything, it is a targeting of student in general and not just athletes.

      • GaskillDawg

        Yep. The legacy of Lewis Fish. After his death Michael Adams demanded that all UGA students charged with drug and alcohol possession be arrested rather than police give citations to appear. It was grandstanding on the Fearless Leader’s part.

      • Dawgoholic

        Exactly, students are targeted – whether an athlete or not. Judging by some areas of Athens, serious crime and criminals are not targeted.

      • Dog in Fla

        Welcome to the Athens-Clarke County Police-Industrial Complex where somebody has to be the fuel for the machinery of justice for all we can catch. These things don’t run by themselves. There’s payroll. There’s medical. There’s retirement.

  3. Ben

    I was talking to an Auburn friend this weekend, and even he couldn’t believe Nick Marshall walked away from that with only a citation.

    He also asks me when we’re going to get rid of some more guys for their team. At least he acknowledges it, right?

  4. Scorpio Jones, III

    “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” Well, maybe that applies. But again, and again, and again, we do what we do the way we do it cause that’s the way we want to do it.

    I am going to try to ignore what happens in Tuscaloosa or Auburn or Knoxville or Gainesville. What happens in those places does not matter to me.

    All I can say about Justin Scott-Wesley being a perfectly normal young man in an abnormal world is dammit.

    Do suspensions that would not happen at say….Alabama matter to the football team….hard to tell, but the kids knew, I damn sure hope, what the rules were before they got to Athens.

    Arrests and suspensions and kick offs do have an impact on team psyche, how much of an impact is pretty much up to the other players and coaching staff.

    It ain’t easy playing for Georgia, or being a Dawg fan…where have I read that before?

    • Gravidy

      This. Many UGA fans want to complain about the fact that UGA’s punishment is tougher than that of other schools. They are right, of course, and that is a discussion worth having. But, in my opinion, it isn’t worth having in the wake of every arrest because it is a “big picture” argument.

      While I have sympathy for that argument, what I would rather talk about when discussing the specific cases is the fact that all of these kids knew the rules when being recruited, knew the rules when signing scholarship papers, and had an almost literal army of people constantly reminding them not to break the rules. And yet they broke them anyway.

      • Bulldawg165

        Save the “personalresponsibility” lecture for the athletes themselves. It’s irrelevant to the particular discussion regarding our treatment of these issues compared to other schools

        • Gravidy

          Well, considering it was my comment, I’ll just go ahead and assume I know what “particular discussion” I was having and what is relevant to it if that’s OK with you – especially since I went out of my way to make that distinction.

          • Dog in Fla

            You mean we’re supposed to not only know what “particular discussion” we’re having and then, to top it off, know what it’s relevant to before we post a comment?

  5. 81Dog

    I’ve handled a fair number of cases in Taylor County and Reynolds over the years. I’m surprised that Nick wasn’t arrested, booked, fingerprinted, and had his car impounded, possibly even made subject to a forfeiture action. My experiences with the city PD in general and the particular officers involved have not left me with a high opinion of either. I can’t say that Nick got a pass because he’s a high profile athlete, but if he was just some dumbass peach picker jetting through town who got stopped, I doubt he’d have gotten the VIP treatment. Perhaps the PD was suddenly overcome with an urge to set a wayward youth on a better path, but I’m guessing Nick probably fired one up as soon as he got home.

    • Dog in Fla

      “Perhaps the PD was suddenly overcome with an urge to set a wayward youth on a better path, but I’m guessing Nick probably fired one up as soon as he got home.”

      That’s the ticket. Or as soon as he got to Fort Valley and was overcome with the machinery of the Bluebird plant of happiness singing as he looked over his shoulder

  6. Cojones

    Food for thought my ass. What in hell is preventing the conference head chairing a committee to dig through the legal mumbo-jumbo and push words into action? Nothing. If you said agreement for that from all the conference members before anything can happen, I say pomme d’ rue. Slive is the LEADER of this conference and leaders should lead, especially on divisive issues. He doesn’t need everyone in the conference to “OK” his every action.

    Sitting back in frustration because of this inequity just shows there are no leaders, even UGA, who can bring this horseshit to a head. McGarity must lead our President who leads Slive to the water hole. Lead from the bottom up. If any neighs occur, then pinpoint the stopgap and leave them in the dust through the rest of the fan and conference consensus. Place a spotlight on those institutions that are run by the whim of the FB/BB coach. Keep it in front of everyone every day until something happens to get the same rules of conduct for all teams throughout the conference.

    • It’s the media, I tell ya! With an equity penalty situation, where would the summer CFB headlines come from? If everyone is playing by the same rules, where’s the news in that? Every team would be sensationalized? That’s not news, humppph.

    • AlphaDawg

      Isn’t there some precedence in the past where the Conference has suspended players and school didn’t? I seem to recall this happening in the past.

    • Scorpio Jones, III

      Cojo…baby…dude…You gotta understand there is no money involved in doing what you suggest (and a damn fine suggestion it is, too). The only thing, absolutely the ONLY thing that motivates the leaders you mention, well maybe not always McGarrity, is M-O-N-E-Y.

      Now, if McGarrity could show them leaders there that all these arrests and foblywangle laws and their equally fobblywangle enforcement therein, were costing the conference MONEY, Ole Mac might get some attention from them boyz up at the top a things.

      Helping kids get to be better human beings when football is over? How, exactly, does that produce revenue for the conference, exactly.

  7. DawgPhan

    Why should other schools have to live by CMRs rules. He doesnt want his kids to smoke dope. Period. End of story.

  8. Bogart Double Dawg

    Long time reader here (at least 6 years) but never commented before I think I can help shed some light on these disparities. Looking at it after I pasted it in, I wrote way to much, but it takes a little explanation. If you want the short version, the answer to the question is once again Michael F. Adams.

    Long version…
    Having spent some significant time in a former career policing in Georgia, including a couple of years with ACCPD before moving to state law enforcement (more than a decade plus ago) and still speaking regularly to ACC officers, many of the ridiculous actions of the ACCPD toward students (including athletes) are traceable to actions taken at the insistence of one Michael F. Adams.

    Adams, desperate to reduce the “party image” of the University after a number of events influenced the ACC government and community leaders to agitate for a number of policy and procedure changes at ACCPD. Many of these changes led to essentially mandatory custodial arrests for minor offenses like underage possession of alcohol and possession of less than an ounce of marijuana.

    Prior to these changes, which occurred about a decade ago, it was common to cite and release for those minor offenses whenever practical as it made no sense to take the time and expense of booking these suspects. Sometimes, like a drunk underage person making a fool out of themselves trying to fight or something similarly stupid would lead to a custodial arrest for underage possession or other minor offenses but typically if they had a valid identification (so you can be confident about who the ticket was given to) there was no reason to make the custodial arrest. Rookie officers were in fact commonly chastised by their training officers if they wanted to make a custodial arrest for these minor offenses for wanting to waste police resources prior to this change.

    Being around at the time Adams succeeded Knapp I remember hearing that UGAPD had a number of their policies being changed then as well. I really don’t know if they were citing and releasing before Adams but as Justin Scott-Wesley’s situation (amongst many others) showed, even if they aren’t immediately making a custodial arrest now they are obtaining arrest warrants soon thereafter which basically necessitates a pretrial custodial arrest. All that being said, UGAPD has always been a different animal when it comes to their approach to policing and I’m not sure exactly what changed due to Adams or what has been their SOP for a long time.

    Aside from the silliness of these laws to begin with, it is a horrible waste of resources and accomplishes little to make these arrests for minor offenses essentially mandatory for the officers. I also know that many of the veteran officers despise these policies and wish they could return to using their judgment when deciding to make a custodial arrest or release on citation.

    If one were to go into the archives of the Banner Herald or the Red and Black these changes were well covered by the local press, as well as the motivations behind them.

    • Macallanlover

      Good information, thanks. UGA should revisit the “Adams influence” and come to a more reasonable stance. There is no need for any students, athlete or not, to be booked or have a criminal record, for petty offenses. It isn’t good for the young person, has miniscule impact on society, and takes time away from more serious issues. It makes no sense to enforce the same state law differently in counties throughout the same state, Mike Adams was a citizen, not a czar, if he wanted the laws toughened let him go through the same process as others. On campus, he could make/influence the rules (to an extent) but off campus he should have zero rights to tell the police how to conduct themselves.

      I am a strong supporter of law enforcement in most areas but the MJ and drinking laws are bad laws, imo, but they have to be enforced until changed but some discretion is always a plus. There certainly isn’t any reason for students at UGA to be singled out differently than citizens anywhere else in Georgia. If we are educating students and attempting to prepare them for life after college this is a poor example to set.

        • Corey

          Are you serious?! We are living under a regime that pays no attention to laws of its own creation, changes law on the fly (looking at you PPACA), advertise their willingness to ignore many statutes that have been in place, and ignore enforcing our border. But, other than that you’re right, it’s those pesky Republicans ruining this nation.

          • Gaskilldawg

            Is Fox News Channel auditioning? “Changes law onthe fly?” The administrative branch has, for years, allowed the IRS to waive penalties. Happens a lot; I remember when G. W. Bush was president the IRS waived penalties for not making quarterly patyments after 9/11. The issue you refer is simply that, waiving collection this year of a penalty. Ignoring enforcing the border? “ignore enforcing our border?” More deportations under Obama than under any previous president. The Central American kids? THEY WERE INTERCEPTED AT THE FREAKING BORDER! WE CAUGHT THEM AS THEY WERE ENTERING! How is that not enforcing the border? As for not immediately shipping them back, President Bush signed a law that provides that the United States may not deport children from any countries other than Canada and Mexico who entered illegally without first giving those children a hearing in immigration court, and that law provides that the children must be detained in the least restrictive environment awaiting a hearing. The caseload backlog in immigration courts is two years. The administration is actually abiding by the law President Bush signed.

            You must be getting youir facts from Sarah Palin.

            • Corey

              and yours must come from Al Sharpton bunghole….I work in healthcare and can simply say the health care law keeps changing constantly. The goal keeps getting moved, and exemptions are created to those that cozy up to the administration. I really don’t have time debate anyone who writes in all caps like a 3rd-grader. If you want to listen to MSNBC and believe that drivel, good luck to ya!

    • Scorpio Jones, III

      “many of the ridiculous actions of the ACCPD toward students (including athletes) are traceable to actions taken at the insistence of one Michael F. Adams.”
      Adams, you may remember, was the president of the University of Georgia whose wife called the cops on members of the men’s basketball team when the team came to see their President to talk about his decision to remove the men’s basketball team from the NCAA tournament.

      Now you are cookin, Bogart…thanks for taking the time.

    • ScoutDawg

      Wow. Helluva post Dude. Thank you for the insight.

    • SCDawg

      Bogart that is interesting. I live in Columbia and our city PD has decided to take a similar approach downtown. Multiple custodial arrests on new years this year for . . . jaywalking. Only in SC bond must be set in front of a judge. Those kids got out of the county detention center at around 4pm on new years day. What a collasal waste of resources.

      • Ironically, the majority of “law and order” types are the ones who bitch and moan about how much government costs, while it costs several hundred dollars to arrest someone, process them at the jail, and get them bonded out, even if they are only in custody for a few hours… That does not include further costs if they then go through the court system… Great use of taxpayers’ money – as someone mentioned above, it is indeed the Criminal Justice-Industrial Complex…

    • RugbyDawg79

      Adams took away The Field given to the Rugby Team by President Fred Davidson–I am still trying to forgive him

  9. from the article “At Georgia the first offense is 10% of the season; the second is 30% of the season; and the third is a ticket to either Louisville or Auburn “

  10. I have no problem with a consistent drug policy league-wide or NCAA-wide, for that matter.

    But things just aren’t headed in that direction.

    Nationally, there is obviously a lean toward legalizing drugs and I just don’t see the NCAA, SEC or whomever swimming against that current. Plus, there’s a ton of money on the line. Think Slive wants to (or would) suspend an SEC athlete the week before the playoffs start? Not happening.

    • Macallanlover

      Definite agreement with inevitable changes coming to marijuana laws, will take a long time to spread nationally though. In the meantime, consistency on how to deal with the rule breakers is a significant need, be that breaking local drug/alcohol laws, or traffic offenses, or violent crimes.

      I have some hope that the recent Texas and TAMU suspensions will help spread the pressure to those who continually look the other way but am doubtful the inept NCAA can set, or enforce, any measures. The Power 5 commissioners will have to see where there is common ground on standardizing punishments and act on that because I am certain some coaches/schools will never make the tough calls, unless shamed into it.

      • Dog in Fla

        I’ve heard the NCAA is preoccupied with other matters. Can coaches or schools, or both, ever be shamed into anything?

  11. AthensHomerDawg

    Has anyone heard from Skeptic? He hasn’t been here since Cojones and Mac threw down on him. I mean a day without Skeptic is like a day without sunshine.
    Skeptic…… pay your tab to Bobo and do the right thing. Kay?
    …..I ain’t going away. Kay?

    • Dog in Fla

      Not only that, we’ve had no communication today from IveyLeaguer. He’s probably up at Cornell

      • AthensHomerDawg

        Bluto ran outta band width. I’m guessing here. I shared an office with a Cornell grad. Those guys like to back pack in the snow and such. ?

  12. Jim Diamond

    Totally off subject… Does anyone have a good link to the entrance to the 2007 Auburn Blackout game. I was telling my kids (9 and 11) that was the loudest game we’ve been to at Sanford. AC/DC then the team blasting out… the barn had no chance. Thx