Category Archives: Mumme Poll

“I always had these jobs where they were pretty desperate…”

I never know whether it’s worth the effort to link to something Spencer Hall posts, since I figure most of you are loyal EDSBS readers already.  (If not, you should be.)  But on the odd chance that some of you haven’t seen it, make sure you catch his interview with Hal Mumme.  It’s an entertaining read.

There’s only one topic Hall didn’t touch on that I wish he had.  For obvious reasons, I’d love to hear Mumme try to justify his now infamous vote for Hawaii at number one in the final regular season 2007 Coaches Poll.

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The selection committee: a modest proposal

I don’t often find myself in agreement with Derek Dooley, but what can I say?  When you’re right, you’re right.  If the commissioners and presidents fail to fashion a selection committee (assuming that’s their choice, of course) the public finds credible, the new playoff format will be doomed from the start.  By itself, locking a few wise men in a room with instructions not to emerge until they have four names isn’t going to cut it.  So what will?

Well, to start with, there are certain essential truths that have to be recognized.

  1. A four-team playoff doesn’t end controversy over the postseason field.  In fact, as Tony Barnhart acknowledges, it’s likely to fan the flames:  “It won’t be less controversial. In fact, a four-team playoff will actually be MORE controversial once it is in place. Why? Because last season there was basically only one team (No. 3 Oklahoma State) that had a legitimate argument that it should have been in the top two. When we go to four teams, there will always be at least 3-4 teams that claim they were as good as No. 4. “  Worse, there will be years like 2005, when there was a clear consensus on the two best teams in the country and a four-team playoff will seem essentially superfluous – not that it’ll be cancelled – and thus, so will the fierce debate over which teams fill out the field.
  2. A selection committee is not going to be perceived as a friend of the little guy.  As Andrea Adelson puts it, “… I fear for conferences like the Big East with a selection committee in charge. How do we know that the group of men charged with making the decisions are going to choose the best four teams while turning a blind eye to conference affiliation? Particularly when a league like the Big East has such a weak national perception.”  Short answer:  we don’t.
  3. Fans ain’t stupid.  We’re really not.  As Year2 says, don’t insult our intelligence by insisting that the process will be completely unbiased.  It’s not humanly possible to do that.  When you’re being successfully mocked by Derek Dooley, that ought to give you a clue there’s a problem.

So, if those are the obstacles to creating a selection process which results are validly perceived, how can college football surmount them?  By making sure that no conflicts of interest exist – no coaches or athletic directors need apply, in other words – and that bias is minimized or “balanced”, as Year2 puts it, to the extent that the public can respect the results.

That starts with sunshine.  Whatever standards are put in place to judge the field, they need to be both public and relatively easy to understand.  For instance, if computers are to stay in the mix, whether as a standard which humans are to rely upon in making their decision or as a direct component in a formula that is used to compile team rankings, no more of this proprietary nonsense.  Either commission a stat guru to run numbers based on a formula of college football’s own devising, or use something that has no hidden features.

As for the selection committee itself, what makes me nervous is that it appears to have been the source of compromise for the commissioners in coming up with the new playoff format.  In that context, it’s a compromise in the worst sense of the word:  Slive, Delany, Scott, et al. no doubt see the possibilities of structuring such an animal in ways which benefit each the most.  Sharks don’t compromise out of a sense of the common good.  They do it because they perceive an opportunity.  How do we avoid giving them that?

Looking at Year2′s suggestions, there’s some good stuff.  I like the idea of each voter keeping a public log of games watched, so we know they’re taking their responsibilities seriously.  There are also ideas that I doubt college football is ready to adopt, like treating committee membership as a full-time paying job.  And while having weekly grillings of committee members would make for good TV, no doubt, do we really want to put that kind of power into the hands of an ESPN?  (Not that the WWL would object.)  I also wonder if a 10-person group is big enough to balance out bias, especially if each conference names individual representatives to the committee.

I’d suggest a different direction.  And if you know GTP, the home of the Mumme Poll, you know what I’m getting ready to suggest.  Quite simply, college football ought to embrace approval voting.  Instead of a small committee, put together a pool of 124 knowledgeable voters, balanced geographically and with varied backgrounds.  After the sixth week of games are in the book, have them start casting weekly public ballots of their top ten teams (not in order!) along with game logs and any commentary about how they arrived at their decisions so that they can be vetted, not by ESPN, but by a bigger world.

I’m not suggesting it’s a perfect solution in and of itself, of course.  But a pool that large in an approval vote setting makes it difficult for a single individual to manipulate the results and making the process open allows the press and the general public to watch for evidence of larger scale collusion or for individuals trying to pursue dubious agendas of their own.  What I can say from our own experience operating the Mumme Poll for several seasons now is that approval voting is a useful tool in combating bias.  And I’m sure there are smarter people than I am who can come up with ways to tweak the process to further strengthen its validity.

College football is unique.  There’s no reason for it to follow another sport’s postseason selection process, even if it’s one with which there’s great familiarity by those who will fashion it.  Do better than that, folks.  We’d appreciate it.

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Friday morning buffet

You’re about to make it through another working week, so grab a plate and settle in.

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Filed under BCS/Playoffs, Because Nothing Sucks Like A Big Orange, Big Ten Football, College Football, Mumme Poll, SEC Football

Approval voting and the new postseason format

I’ve had this bouncing around in my head and we at the Mumme Poll received an e-mail on the subject, so I thought I’d toss it out there for some thought:  assuming the BCS is about to expand in one form or fashion, why not use approval voting to select the playoff field?  We’ve long pitched approval voting as a means of addressing the flaws inherent in the Coaches Poll, but I can see it serving the needs of a selection committee either picking two teams to play in a title game after the bowl games are played or selecting four teams to play in the semi-finals.

Obviously, this gets funkier if the format is a mish-mash of conference champs and at-large picks, or if the format ultimately chosen doesn’t go the selection committee route (although it’s still something the coaches should adopt), but I see some real merit to the idea.

It’s something to watch as things develop.  It’s likely we’ll incorporate some change into the voting down the road if we feel it’s appropriate.  If you have any thoughts on this, please share in the comments.

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Mumme Poll PSA

The ballot box is officially open for business and will remain so into Friday.  So get over there and do your thing.

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Bias? What bias?

Say what you will about Jeff Sagarin and his role in picking a football national champion, he’s spot on about this“There are so many conflicts of interest in coaches. People who say coaches would never let personal interests get in the way of their vote — give me a break. That’s a joke.”

That’s not exactly conjecture on his part, either.  There’s a study which suggests just that.

… The researchers studied bias in the poll by calculating the difference between the coaches’ poll and the BCS computer based ranking system, in addition to the deviation between individual coaches’ ballots and the average rankings of approximately 60 coaches’ ballots. Both statistical approaches demonstrated that coaches’ votes were biased by as much as two spots in favor of their team, as much as one spot in favor of teams in their athletic conference, and as much as half a spot in favor of teams they had defeated.

And – surprise! – that’s pretty much how things played out this year.

In the final 2011 coaches’ poll released on Dec. 4, coaches from Auburn, LSU, Georgia and South Carolina all voted fellow Southeastern Conference (SEC) team Alabama second while coaches from Baylor, Oklahoma, Iowa State and Texas Tech all voted fellow Big 12 team Oklahoma State second. LSU will play Alabama in the National Championship Game Jan. 9 in New Orleans.

It’s not just that familiarity breeds respect in the Coaches Poll.  Money talks, too.

… The financial incentives led the coaches of teams in the six BCS conferences to rank the teams in their conference higher if those teams were on the cusp of receiving a bowl game invitation, and non-BCS coaches to rank non-BCS conference teams higher. The study found that a payoff of between 3.3 and five million dollars resulted in an increased ranking of one position, and larger payoffs had an even greater effect.[Emphasis added.]

“I became interested in this study not just because of football but because studying conflicts of interest are a much bigger phenomenom in all aspects of economics and political activity,” Kotchen said. He added that the study’s results made him skeptical that voters can control their biases.

Skeptical, schmeptical.  Obviously Kotchen hasn’t been talking to the right people.

Like Grant Teaff, for example.

“Is it perfect — of course not,” Teaff said. “Is there bias? Of course the coaches think highly of their teams. That’s not bias. If they weren’t that way, they wouldn’t keep their jobs.”

He added that “even with its frailties” the poll has been “amazingly accurate” throughout its 62-year history.

The idea that a coach might lose his job over failing to rank his team highly enough in the Coaches Poll is ludicrous.  If what Teaff suggests were really true, you’d have coaches fighting to vote in the poll for their own job security.

BCS shill Bill Hancock has Teaff’s back.

”As for Sagarin’s criticism of the coaches, Hancock says, “The coaches’ poll results are very similar to the results of the media poll. So clearly the group is doing something right. I think conflicts of interest are exaggerated.”

Yeah, clearly Hal Mumme was right.  The rest of us are idiots.

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My Week Fourteen Mumme Poll ballot

The last week of the regular season is in the books, less Army-Navy, and my ten best are as follows:

  • Alabama
  • Arkansas
  • Boise State
  • LSU*
  • Michigan
  • Oklahoma State
  • Oregon
  • Southern Cal
  • Stanford
  • Wisconsin

COMMENTS

  • My top eight were easy decisions – those being every team listed above except Arkansas and Michigan – but those last two slots were a bitch to fill.
  • Man, the computers really love Oklahoma.  I thought about keeping the Sooners in my top ten again this week, despite the OSU blow out, but when one of your three losses is to a crappy Texas Tech squad, it’s just a bridge too far for me.
  • At least we won’t have Houston and Virginia Tech to kick around anymore.
  • Yeah, I’m probably screwing Georgia and Michigan State for playing in their respective championship games and losing.
  • Following that, I think Michigan makes a stronger case for inclusion than does South Carolina.

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Everyone’s favorite Coaches Poll ballots are here!

The public ones, of course.

And they’re chock full of all the bias/self-interest/conflicts of interest we’ve come to know and love:

  • Nick Saban wasn’t taking any chances.  He ranked Oklahoma State fourth, behind LSU, his beloved Tide and Stanford.
  • Speaking of Stanford, David Shaw did the same thing.
  • Tommy Tuberville put ‘Bama third – whether for historical reasons or for conference solidarity, I don’t know.
  • Steve Spurrier shoved Boise State down to eleventh, while ranking his team eighth.
  • Les Miles went with the rematch.
  • All six SEC coaches voting picked Alabama #2.  And if you now count Gary Pinkel as an SEC head coach, make it seven.

On the Georgia front, just a few notes:

  • NC State’s Tom O’Brien voted Georgia seventh.  Hunh?
  • Bronco Mendenhall was the only coach to leave Georgia off his ballot.  I guess he had to make room for his BYU vote.
  • The only SEC coach to vote Georgia lower than its #18 finish?  Nick Saban, at #20.
  • Mark Richt’s picks look pretty conventional.  He didn’t cast a vote for any school which didn’t wind up in the coaches top 25.

************************************************************************************

UPDATE:  Holee crap on a stick.  Dave Braine is a Harris Poll voter.

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Mumme Poll, Week 13

No huge surprises:

Rank Team Votes (Top pick)
1 LSU 91 (89)
2 Oklahoma State 91 (1)
3 Alabama 89 (0)
4 Stanford 81 (0)
5 Oregon 79 (0)
6 Virginia Tech 71 (1)
7 Arkansas 70 (0)
8 Georgia 69 (0)
9 Boise State 65 (0)
10 Southern Cal 45 (0)
11 Oklahoma 37 (0)
12 Houston 36 (0)
13 Wisconsin 27 (0)
14 South Carolina 25 (0)
15 Michigan State 19 (0)
16 Kansas State 8 (0)
17 Michigan 5 (0)
18 Baylor 2 (0)

COMMENTS

  • We’re more skeptical of Houston and Oklahoma than the other polls, but a lot stronger on Georgia.  Gee, I wonder how that happened.
  • I think there are a bunch of teams ranked below Virginia Tech that would beat the Hokies, but I’m obviously in a minority on that.
  • Breakdown by conference:  SEC – 5; Big 12 – 4; Pac 12 – 3; Big Ten – 3; ACC – 1; MWC – 1; CUSA – 1.  Is the Big East still a conference?

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My Week Thirteen Mumme Poll ballot

This isn’t getting any easier, people.

  • Alabama
  • Arkansas
  • Boise State
  • LSU*
  • Oklahoma
  • Oklahoma State
  • Oregon
  • Southern Cal
  • Stanford
  • Wisconsin

COMMENTS

  • I swear, I feel like I’ve changed this list at least four times in the last day.  I can’t imagine how much time I’d need to compose a top 25 ballot in order.
  • I dumped Michigan and Kansas State this week.  Michigan, because I don’t think a top ten team struggles with Ohio State’s offense like it did.  Kansas State, because I grow less convinced each week that the Big 12 is as strong as everyone insists and because that Miami win shrinks in value week by week.
  • I think Wisconsin is the best team in the Big Ten right now.  The Badgers are playing good ball.  And as much as it pains me to say it, so are Junior’s Trojans.
  • Virginia Tech is out because the Hokies don’t have a win over an upper tier opponent.  And if I exclude them on that basis, Georgia stays out, too.  Georgia is a better team right now than South Carolina.
  • Houston… yeah, they keep winning.  But the best wins the Cougars have are over UCLA and Tulsa.  That ain’t much at all.  It’s an undefeated team with a great quarterback that ranks 60th in total defense playing Sagarin’s 111th rated strength of schedule.  A slightly shinier version of 2007 Hawaii, in other words.  I can’t buy in.

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