Talent evaluation, or talent development?

One of the many criticisms I’ve seen bandied about as a root cause for Georgia’s problems this season is that the staff has slipped on the recruiting front and that the team simply isn’t as talented as we were led to expect.  I’ve watched every game so far this season and have yet to see one where I thought the Dawgs were the less talented team on the field (not the same thing as saying they were the better team) and this detailed article from David Ching does nothing to lessen my conviction about that.  Here’s his conclusion:

… If you did the same thing with the two-deeps from Alabama or Florida, I’d wager their rosters’ list of offers would be more impressive. If you look at this kind of list for Arkansas or Auburn, and I think they’re faring relatively well this year, it’s probably less daunting. What I think this list clearly shows is Georgia has more than enough talent – if you buy what Rivals is selling – to play with most anyone, SEC or otherwise. [Emphasis added.] It’s a matter of taking the talent you have and doing something with it, and there are a lot of guys on Georgia’s roster who were supposed to be better than they’ve played thus far. That happens everywhere. I don’t know whether it happens any more frequently at UGA than at other top-tier programs, but I suppose it could.

That doesn’t read like a Rodney Garner problem.  You can complain that Richt should have been more proactive with offers in dealing with the attrition the program has faced over the last three or four years (that’s a somewhat valid critique), you can acknowledge some bad luck and you can certainly point to the developmental wasteland that we’ve seen occur at defensive end, linebacker and secondary over that time.  But I don’t get the argument that Garner has suddenly become a bad evaluator of talent.  If he has, a lot of other reputable programs are guilty of the same thing, it seems.


Filed under Georgia Football, Recruiting

138 responses to “Talent evaluation, or talent development?

  1. Jim

    as i’ve said many times, this staff can do less with more better than anyone else. the issue isn’t talent. the issue is the players aren’t COACHED or developed once they get to Athens.

    Look at the 2008 team that oozed talent, yet we were painful to watch b/c the games were much closer than they should have been (at least the ones we won vs. getting our doors blown off) and we beat people simply because we had more talented athletes on the field. Plain and simple and for no other reason.

    Our gameplan that year seemed to be to “out-athlete” our opponent. As we are seeing this year, that strategy is not sustainable.

  2. Russ The Temporary Mascot

    Uga VI used to tell me about Coach Richt when he first came to Georgia.

    Uga said he was a nice man, but he was also very competitive and would speak in absolutes.

    He would tell people “We will knock the lid off this program” and he would speak in great detail about the deicipline the mat drills program teaches.

    However, in my short time with the Georgia program, when I listen to Coach Richt, I hear him speak in only in relative terms. I hear the words “maybe”, “kinda”, “pretty good”, and “probably” peppered in his interviews.

    I know it sounds petty to some, but people pick up on this type of thing when it comes from their leaders. It takes the competitive edge off and you can easily develop a “close is good enough” approach to your work.

    I believe this well describes the culture I encountered when I first got involved in the program last fall.

    Now this past week, I have seen some of the old Coach Richt competitiveness that Uga described come out.

    Whether he can capture and maintain it remains to be seen.

    – Russ

  3. Dooms Day Dawg

    So to argue the flipside of your article: UGA coaches/staff are simply not coaching up the recruits they bring in. If that is the correct position of your post, should we believe that CMR will finally see the light next year, or even the year after that, and begin to coach up the talent on hand? If talent is being squandered in Athens (and many a case can be made to underscore this point, i.e. Rashad Jones, entire 2010 O-line) then change at the top must happen now. Why continue to support wasted efforts?

    • Did the fact that MR replaced three underperforming defensive coaches after last season just slip by you?

      Look, if you want to argue that he waited at least a year too long to pull the trigger, you won’t get an argument here. But to argue that he hasn’t seen the light doesn’t hold much water for me.

    • AthensHomerDawg

      Change is fine but include a reasonable alternative with you request.
      Let’s be sure who you have in mind to replace these coaches with. What current HC with experience do we honestly have a reasonable chance to hire to lead this team and restaff these coaching position with? What assistants are available to restaff with? What will be the fallout in terms of players leaving and recruits changing their minds? Since the last division title 9-3,10-2,11-1,8-5. ? Richt delegated a bit early and apparently his old school approach to promoting assistants hasn’t worked like it use to. His competition has assistants that seem way more qualified. You want Richt’s DOR? I don’t think Georgia has anywhere to go but with Richt. I wish this kinda talk would stop. It’s mid-season. You don’t fire coaches mid-season do you? That’s just doesn’t seem prudent. This season isn’t anything like we thought it would be but we still have more games to play. Put on your red and black, cheer and make the most of it. I’m sure Greg McGarity will help get us back to Atlanta asap.

      • gatriguy

        It’s not the fans’ job to know a qualified replacement, it’s McGarity’s. But there are TONS of great coaches out there other than the names we all know. I do know that we were handily outcoached 4 weeks in a row. That doesn’t bode well for the “who are we going to get that’s better” argument.

        • AthensHomerDawg

          “This season isn’t anything like we thought it would be but we still have more games to play.
          (This is what a fan does)—->Put on your red and black, cheer and make the most of it.
          (This is who handles what a fan does not know)—–> I’M SURE GREG MCGARITY WILL HELP GET US BACK TO ATLANTA ASAP”.
          We good now?

        • Mayor of Dawgtown

          “Tons?” I can only think of 3-4 current coaches who have the same or better stats than CMR and they ain’t leaving where they are. You can dig up Bear Bryant if you want to but he’s not coaching any more.

      • Jim

        AHD – I’ve been saying just about anyone could win 8 games a year given the in-state talent, financial resources, facilities, etc that UGA has. Apparently Mark Richt is going to prove me wrong this year. At this point my opinion is that almost anyone would be an upgrade given the trajectory we are on.

        Also – Your win/loss stats above are all f’d up. I think you if correct them, put them in chronological order and add 2010 (even under a best case scenario) the trend that concerns me will be pretty evident. Layer on top the off-field issues, on-field underachieving and discipline problems and it doesn’t paint a pretty picture.

        But, hey, when you figure out the answer in a few years and we’ve been conference bottom dwellers since 2010 I’m sure it will be a lot easier to identify and hire the right guy than it would be after this season.

        • AthensHomerDawg

          A bit over the top- I don’t know if they were that f’d up but there are the corrected stats since our last conference championship in 2005. In the future I shall endeavor not to shoot from the hip when these numbers are that critical.

          2006- 9-4
          2007- 11-2
          2008 10-3
          2009 8-5
          Yeah I get your drift this total sucks and the wheels have plainly come off this program. What was I thinking? Thanks.

          • Jim

            add 2010. where does that come out? Don’t tell me 8-4 because that is a pipe dream.

            Glad to see you are so satisfied with the direction of the program.

            That is the problem with those that are willing to let us slide into mediocrity – you look back at 90 wins and 9 years and convince yourself that everything is ok.

            If you’d look at the product on the field and in the papers, it clearly isn’t.

            • AthensHomerDawg

              Sorry. Just not feeling the whole fire ’em vibe. I don’t believe they slide or gain based on me. I love the University as much as any fan…. glad I had the opportunity to attend… glad my sons are attending now. If someone in my company brought me an employee evaluation similar to CMR and suggested we fire them because of poor performance I’d decline. I don’t think there are “a ton of good coaches out there”. I don’t want to go through what Alabama suffered through or what Tennessee is going through. I want CMR to fix what needs fixing and I want the fans to give him time to fix it. In the end though……it doesn’t matter what I want.

              • Puffdawg

                Seriously, the “accepting mediocrity” accusation is tiresome. Ok, so everybody who doesn’t want to fire Mark Richt right this minute accepts 8-5 every season. Got it.

                • Jim

                  that is implicitly what you are doing isn’t it? My concern isn’t 8-5 every season. it is that starting in 2010, i am afraid we are going to long for the days of 8-5 in future years.

                  i’d like nothing more than for richt to fix things. BUT, the writing has been on the wall here for a while. While firing the guys last year was a good start I am afraid it is too little too late.

                  • AthensHomerDawg

                    What writing are you referring to? The only other 8-5 season we had was CMR’s first season. Before the 2nd- 8-5 season it was 10-3 and before that it was 11-2. I’ve worked for some pretty demanding CEO’s in my life. There was one that I told to just kma! And moved on . You feelin’ me?

      • Dooms Day Dawg

        If the talent (which according to the linked article is on par with our SEC foes) is in Athens, then coaching must be the answer. Yes, there were defensive changes made in the off season. However, if a HC fails to see a decline in coaching of said talent, then the problem also resides with the HC. I, nor you I assume, will be sitting in on any future coaching decisions. Please refrain from the “Who Will Do Better” banter. No one foresaw Richt as OC at FSU as the next leader of the Dawgs. The question that needs to be asked is: Is CMR capable of turning the program around. If the answer is no (and I believe it is no), then change must be made. Most Dawg fans will agree that 2010, 2009 and even 2008 were not successful seasons. Has a pattern formed?

        • Puffdawg

          “Yes, there were defensive changes made in the off season. However, if a HC fails to see a decline in coaching of said talent, then the problem also resides with the HC.”

          How did he “fail to see a decline in coaching of said talent” if he fired the group responsible for “decline in coaching of said talent?” Enlighten me.

          Also, comparing the hypothetical search to replace Richt with the search to replace Donnan is apples to oranges.

  4. Brandon

    This program is still trying to recover from Hurricane Willie. If CMR can be faulted with anything it is taking 5 years to can him when it should have taken no more than 2.

  5. Turd Ferguson

    I think you’d have to be crazy to think that we’re playing so poorly this year because of a lack of talent. Show me the lack of talent on offense. Murray was an elite-11 QB, and we’re all seeing why. King and Ealey were both top-10 RBs coming out of HS, and I don’t recall anyone complaining about their talent last season when they were each averaging more than 5 yds per carry. We’re deeper at TE than any team I can think of. And prior to the season, 99% of the teams in the entire country would have killed to have the sort of talent and experience we’ve got at OL. And this not even to mention our MOST talented player on offense.

    And yet, in the first 3 quarters of our first 3 conference games this season, we scored a grand total of 22 points. 22 points — including just 1 TD — in 9 quarters of football. Despite all of that talent.

    Georgia has talent problems just like MC Hammer had money problems.

    • Robert K Burnham

      Strength and Conditioning !!
      Dave Van Halanger is more concerned with our players’ souls than their bodies.
      Maybe that is as it should be in the long run,
      but during their four years at UGA they need to
      get bigger, stronger and faster physically , and I don’t see that happening. We need a change there and Richt needs to bring in a modern day S & C guy , but CMR seems more loyal to DVH than he was to WM . Sad .

  6. Dooley's Wig

    Okay then.

    What was the deal in Bryan Evans’ case?

    I’ve always seen him as the poster child for raw talent that did not get developed.

    What do y’all think?

    • Normaltown Mike

      He looks really awesome gettin’ off the bus. Not so much tween the hedges.

      • Dooley's Wig

        No kidding.

        But, do I remember correctly that he had some record setting times in the forty in high school?

        He was not exactly an un-athletic kid.

        I do not remember him getting into grade trouble or emerging from alleys.

        But was totally lost on the field.

  7. Chuck

    The issue is not the talent, it is the fact that these players are not interested in Georgia but there own personal gain. It has to be about the team. Get people that want to play at Georgia and who understands and respects the traditions. Not those that are all about me.

    That is the number one problem. Back in the 1st years of CMR carrier the players wanted to play for the DAWGS. The best example was Shockley he could have transferred to any school but instead stayed at Georgia. That is why we won. Stafford, Moreno were more interested in their NFL carriers than there interested in Georgia. Until we change that mindset, things are not going to turn around. I do not care who is leading this team. Dooley and Russell got boys that wanted to play for the DAWGS and put their whole existence out on that field when they played. Current example is Greene, it is obvious that he is a great player and is greatly missed when he is not on the field, but if his heart is a true DAWG then there is no conflict with whether he will be back for next year. It does not matter when he goes to the NFL he is going to make a butt load of money.

    • I’m always fascinated by this theory. What exactly would Stafford and Moreno have done differently if they’d have put school first, other than stayed another year and denied themselves millions?

      • Jim

        I don’t think these guys should stick around and pass up millions.

        BUT, I think out of moreno we would have seen more effort and less asking for subs when he was getting the hot hand but was a little winded.

        I also think Stafford and Moreno could have shown more leadership in the program. You have to admit that their tenure was marked by teams that seemed to want to out-athlete their opponents as opposed to playing better as a TEAM. Those types of “teams” get hammered in big games, as we saw during UF and UA in 2008

        I’m not trashing those guys b/c I liked them as Dawgs and am happy they were. That said I think each of them could have been better DAWGs if they had taken more of a team approach.

        • Biggus Rickus

          So the defense gave up 41, 49 and 45 in the three losses in ’08 because Stafford and Moreno were selfish? You’d think our defense would have improved dramatically without those guys around selfishly making them blow coverages, take bad angles and never recognize a rollout.

        • Puffdawg

          I can see what you mean about Moreno, as he always avoided contact at all costs…

          And by the way, you are trashing them by suggesting they didn’t give everything they had to the program.

        • Yeah, that Moreno was a real goldbricker – 248 carries in 2007 and 250 carries in 2008 (plus 20 receptions in ’07 and 33 in ’08). Lazy bastard.

          Exactly what sort of “more leadership” are you talking about? I think back to the Kentucky game in ’08, when Matt simply wouldn’t let the team lose, and the Tech game that same year, when he and Moreno kept bringing the team back, only to see the defense get shredded again and again in the second half.

          • The Realist

            If you throw for 400+ and 5 TD’s… and LOSE… that is not on the QB. That is a DC problem.

            • Jim

              All fair comments.

              We can debate the reasons for the underachieving team in 2008 all day long and I think there were several.

              Whether or not stats can support it I do believe the 2008 team’s disappointment was about a lack of leadership. Maybe that doesn’t fall on stafford or moreno as they certainly put up wonderful looking stats, but as we’ve all seen, individual stats don’t win games.

              • AthensHomerDawg

                Underachieving? We lost to conference champ and eventual National Champ Florida………
                We lost to western division champ that went on to win the national championship the following year. We melted down against tech and lost by 3 points. Then we turned around and won our bowl game. 10-3. When is 10-3 underachieving? We went 6-2 in the conference. This is just getting silly.

                • Will (the other one)

                  We weren’t in the Bama or Florida games at all.
                  It’s one thing to lose, it’s another to get blown off the field.
                  And while a lot of the blame can go to the D, Bobo deserves a bit too: see an offense with 2 NFL 1st rounders doing nothing against Bama in the 1st half, and not scoring TDs vs. Florida (or running the ball well at all.)
                  Even against the NATS we sputtered and the offense disappeared for most of the 3rd quarter (right when the D needed a breather the most).

                • dudetheplayer

                  I have to disagree here.

                  10-3 seasons are not created in a vacuum. We went 10-3 in 2005 and that season was not a disappointment and that team did not underachieve on the whole. I think we lost by a combined 10 points that season in our 3 losses and we earned a SEC title.

                  With regards to ’08, you don’t start the season #1 in the country, start 3 future 1st rounders on offense, and lose in horrible fashion to your two biggest rivals and still look at that season as a success.

                  That 2008 team did not play up to the best of their abilities. They got embarrassed by Bama and UF and completely crapped the bed against Tech. The Tech loss was almost entirely on the defense, but the offense didn’t do shit in the other two games when it actually mattered. Those games were complete failures on the part of the coaching staff, the players, everything.

                  Additionally, they won 3 games by the skin of their teeth against mediocre to bad teams from SCU, AUB, and UK. That team was fortunate to eek out 10 wins.

                  That season was a disappointment, 10 wins be damned.

                  • Puffdawg

                    Dtp, I think that’s a fair assessment, although I’ll point out that our teams from 02-05 struggled plenty on offense (despite constant praise for the true dawg Greene) but our D always bailed them out. 08 team did not give us that luxury, partially due to injuries and partially due to WillyMart effect. That’s why we now have Grantham. Just an observation.

          • I’m with you, Senator. Excuse my language, but are we really talking about this shit again? It’s crap like this that makes me hate my fanbase with more passion everyday. How selfish are these people? Everybody has hopes and dreams and these people act like it’s a bad thing that kids like Stafford and Moreno pursued them. It must be pretty easy to scream “loyalty/UGA first guy/RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE” when these idiots (yes, I think these people in my own fanbase are idiots) refuse to show any back towards the players when they underperform or leave for the NFL.

            How many people that comment here wanted Bryan Evans’ head on a stake last year? He was a UGA first type of guy and put his heart and soul into the team. As soon as Stafford entered the draft I’ve never seen such a collective “good riddance” attitude towards the one of the best QBs we’ve ever had and that makes me sad.

            • Dooley's Wig

              +1 and thank you, sir.

            • Chuck

              “I do not give a rat’s butt about who from Georgia goes to the NFL and how the do. I care about the DAWGS. I want us to win and I want the respect back! I have been following Georgia Football for many years. I went and watched games with my dad back in the 70s and 80s I understand the traditions. WE are the Georgia Bulldogs! not any individual player.”

              I stated this as a reply below but it needs to be stated on this comment as well.

              • If you believe that is what I meant in my post, then you’re dumber than I thought. It never ceases to amaze me at how selfish some in this fanbase can be. God forbid you have a child that has a special talent that sets him/her apart from the rest of the crowd and your child pursues that talent. I guess you’d wouldn’t consider him/her a true “little Chuck” because he/she didn’t follow the pre-ordained path you layed out.

      • Chuck

        Stafford and Moreno are just examples and I do not fault anyone bettering themselves. The issue with the two of them is their interest in the team, both could have put more into games at times. They did not play to their full potential all the time. The point I am making is I want players that want to play for the DAWGS. I want the Greens, Pollack, Shokley, Davis, Bailey brothers, Scott Warner, Buck Blue, Southerland, Zier, Robinson, Butler, Hoag, just to name a few past and present. Those that play every down to their full potential and leave their all on the field. I will get crap for this but even the Ginger Assassin from last year. He played his ass off on every play, but we need that as a team as a whole. We have the best O-line in the country, running back corps, and receivers as for a talent is concern, but it is obvious that they are not a team for what ever the reason, and maybe that is the coaches’ fault. But someone needs to find out why and fix the damn problem. I want the traditions back and what I am referring to is that anyone that played Georgia back in the 70s, 80s and the first years under CMR were in for 60 minutes of an all out war on the field. Those teams were never out of any game for the most part and fought hard for the whole game. If we want to mention Stafford and Moreno there were several games that I felt they did not give it there all. We had it at one time we can get it back. For the record and anyone who follows Georgia Football we should have at least played if not have won several national championships. 2007 is the best year that I can remember lay a big huge egg the first part of the year and loose games we should have won and come out like gang busters to finish out the year and end up number 2 in the nation and all of us going what if! It takes 60 minutes for every game you play. Losses are easier to take if you give it your all.

        • Biggus Rickus

          You sound like a Yankees fan (before last year) longing for the days of Brosius at third, because by gum he was a winner and A-Rod just hits selfish homeruns. It seems to me that you restrict “true DAWG” status mostly to anyone who participated on an SEC title team.

          • Chuck

            That is the measurement correct!!! That is what we all want, and yes the list above does consist of players on SEC title teams but the way they played is why we got a SEC title those years!

            • Biggus Rickus

              Okay, that’s just insane. You know who’s a “true DAWG?” Anyone who puts in the effort necessary to don the red and black for three to five years. With the exception of Quincy Carter. F him.

              • AthensHomerDawg

                Quincey “throw it over their heads…then point to his chest” Carter. Almost forgot about him. Did he precipitate an exodus of qb’s from Georgia or what?

                • Biggus Rickus

                  None of them were very good anyway, and Carter does deserve some credit for ushering in Donnan’s demise to set us up for that nice run from ’02-’05.

                  • AthensHomerDawg

                    one did transfer to Oklahoma and was “good” enough to win a Nat’l Championship with them. Quicey also has some culpability in the Mikey Greer transfer.

                  • Mayor of Dawgtown

                    BR you B wrong. Dan Cobb won the JC National Championship after he left UGA and finished at Auburn as a starter for about half a season before being bumped by future NFL Redskins starter Jason Campbell. Nate Hybl was the starter at QB for Oklahoma and also played in the NFL (Browns). Both of them would have been more successful at QB and UGA would have been more successful if either of them had been the QB instead of Carter. Each of them is the answer to an interesting trivia question: “Who are the most recent UGA players to get a National Championship ring in football?” Hybl the answer to an even more interesting trivia question: “Who is the only UGA football player after 1980 to win a National Championship ring at the University of Georgia?” While at UGA Hybl was also a member (along with his brother Nate) of the UGA golf team that won the NCAA D-I National Championship.

                    • Biggus Rickus

                      I’ll give you Hybl. For some reason I thought he was a bust at Oklahoma, and his numbers were not anywhere near as good as his successor. However, he was effective. But Daniel Cobb? He was terrible at Auburn.

              • Chuck

                I do not give a rat’s butt about who from Georgia goes to the NFL and how the do. I care about the DAWGS. I want us to win and I want the respect back! I have been following Georgia Football for many years. I went and watched games with my dad back in the 70s and 80s I understand the traditions. WE are the Georgia Bulldogs! not any individual player.

                And yes I do agree with you on Q. Carter F. Him big time. What a waste. It is a disgrace to even admit he was on the team.

                • Mayor of Dawgtown

                  Q: What did Quincy Cater and Billy Graham have in common? A: They could both make 100,000 people in a stadium jump up and shout “Jesus!” at the same time.

        • I love the Stafford-Cox juxtaposition here. If Matt had a flaw, it was that he tried too hard sometimes to carry the team and forced things (see, Florida 2008). Compare that with Cox’ immortal quote (check the Lexicon) about his pick six throw to Norwood and get back with me about your impressions.

          • Chuck

            And you are making my point! It takes a TEAM not individual play. Everytime we have had a good year we had a good team. Green for example, was a good QB not a great one a good one. Had the record for the winningest QB, but the only reason he had that record is b/c of the team. Every game they put 100 % effort into that game. Look back at those four years and the games that they won. They played hard. Green did not force things to try and win. He played hard and smart, and had a great supporting cast. As far as talent, Stafford had more talent surrounding him than Green did, Stafford did not have the TEAM. I care less if we did not recruit one more 4 star. I want a team that wants to win. That is what CMR is biggest issue, put a TEAM on the field, not a bunch of talent.

            • I thought this was your point:

              Stafford and Moreno are just examples and I do not fault anyone bettering themselves. The issue with the two of them is their interest in the team, both could have put more into games at times. They did not play to their full potential all the time.

              Chuck, I can’t keep up with you. Other than the fact you’re unhappy that the team isn’t winning as much as it used to.

            • Timely quote from John Pennington:

              Georgia went through the same thing last year. Prior to the season, the mantra was “We’re a team!” Gone were those pesky all-stars Matthew Stafford and Knowshon Moreno. And the result was a five-loss season and a trip to Shreveport. So much for T-E-A-M.

              • Chuck

                It was just words! and yes I am very unhappy with Georgia. I want us back to where we were at at one point in time (see 2001 to 2005) and it is my observation that we were a better team and not one or two individuals players. It is very sad that our entire team is based on an idividual player or two players. When Herschel Walker won the HT he credited the entire O-Line for his sucess.

                I have watched Georgia for a very long time and I have lived and currently linving (Jacksonville) in some tough places that made it very hard to be a Georgia fan, but one argument that I always had was Georgia traditions and the Pride to be a Georgia Bulldog. Those traditions and Pride are getting hard to defend with the current status of this and past teams.

                • Puffdawg

                  Do those traditions and pride include the unsubstantiated bashing of former players who led some of the more formidable offenses in school history?

                  • Puffdawg

                    Who also never wavered in the recruiting process, declared and excelled in a very well respected business major, and never incurred any legal woes while at UGA?

                    • Chuck

                      You are right I am such a idiot to think that we get talent so that we can bost we have a formible offense, and HEY they did good in school and did not get in any trouble. But yet we are at a point of wanting to fire our head coach who has been with us for 10 years and has one of the highest winning %. And the next time out in Jacksonville talking with all these JORT wearing rednecks I will use all of these arguments as points of pride and traditions. Thank you all the past players 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 for your stellar performances on the field and it make me proud to be a Bulldog that you played for us and I can say that you are in the NFL and that we have not one thing to show for it.

                    • If performance on the field in Jax is your standard for greatness, you don’t have a lot of Dawgs to take pride in over the past 20 years.

                    • Puffdawg

                      “…that we have not one thing to show for it.”

                      Also, Stafford wanted me to let you know he never lost a game against Auburn…ever.

      • Chadwick

        Yeah, I remember Stafford’s frosh season. Was it Kentucky where he had his helmet ripped off and got smacked in the forehead? There was photo of him post-game that looked like he had just been beaten to a pulp by Marvin Hagler. Yeah, he was a slacker.

    • Biggus Rickus

      Or he might blow out his knee halfway through the 2011 season and never play football again. The idea that it is as cut and dry as stay=loyal, leave=selfish is absurd. Was Herschel a selfish asshole because he left after his Junior season, or was he a “true DAWG?”

    • Puffdawg

      “Dooley and Russell got boys that wanted to play for the DAWGS and put their whole existence out on that field when they played.”

      Like Herschel Walker?

      • Chuck

        +++1111 Yes he left early, and Yes he was a true DAWG!!!! Watch him run the ball, at no time was he thinking about his damn knee! He flat ran over people. There were several times that he could have ran out of bounds, juked around someone, just flat out ran them but he choose one way to play and that was hard. He choose to flat run over peopler and no one wanted to get in his way. Herschel Walker is a true defination of a TRUE F’en DAWG! and if we had more like him, and i am not talking about the talent but the damn WILL to play we would not be in the postion that we are in now.

        • Puffdawg

          “…but if his heart is a true DAWG then there is no conflict with whether he will be back for next year.”

          Kind of like when Herschel came back for his senior year, right? You are a complete idiot.

          • Chuck

            And like he sold a jersey for $1,000 and got susp for four games that is thinking about the TEAM. If you idoits want these types of players on this team that is fine but as long as we have this type of mind set nothing is going to change! You can get anyone to coach this team nothing will change. Hey we have become the bottom of the SEC east. Maybe next year teams will schedule us for their Homecoming but we have great talent. And we send players to the NFL and thank you for all that you gave us!!!!! IT is Great to BE a Georgia Bulldog B/C we have a lot of TAlent that goes to the NFL but do not have a DAMN thing to show for IT. And I am the idiot.

        • 69Dawg

          Chuck please there were fans that were down on Herschel in 81 and 82 because he seemed not to be running as hard as he had as a freshman. UGA fans that have been with the program for 40 years know that the same type guys you described as true blue UGA guys got their butts handed to them sometimes. Dooley had his bad years heck he even had a losing year. Give the rah rah stuff a rest. This is the 2000’s and none of the great players are playing just for the greater glory of good ole PU. The walk-ons and the non NFL guys are playing for the school, the rest are playing for the scouts but that,s not a bad thing.

  8. hodgie

    I loved Staff and Moreno. Because they left early didn’t mean they weren’t true Dawgs. It just meant they had the opportunity to make MILLIONS of dollars. Give it a rest. I’m sure if someone offered you millions to change who you root for you would do root for someone different. I would.

  9. Brandon

    The vast majority of our issues in regards to poor coaching have been on the defensive side of the ball. Richt and Bobo can coach when they have the players on offense the stats prove it. Martinez was a totally different story. Consider what the 5 years of the Martinez regime would have been like had we held all teams to 29 points or less (BVG did that in every game except with the 2003 LSU National Champions, thus if a team went on to win the national championship I let them keep whatever score they got, here goes:


    BSU W 48-13
    USCe W 17-15
    ULM W 44-7
    MSU W 23-10
    UT W 27-14
    VU W 34-17
    ARK W 23-20
    UF L 14-10
    AUB W 30-29
    UK W 45-16
    GT W 14-7
    LSU W 34-14
    WVU W 35-29


    WKU W 48-12
    USCe W 18-0
    UAB W 34-0
    CU W 14-13
    OM W 14-9
    UT W 33-29
    VU L 24-22
    MSU W 27-24
    UF L 21-14
    UK L 24-20
    AUB W 37-15
    GT W 15-12
    VT W 31-24


    OSU W 35-14
    USCe L 16-12
    WCU W 45-16
    BAMA W 26-23
    OM W 45-17
    UT L 29-14
    VU W 20-17
    UF W 42-29
    TROY W 44-29
    AUB W 45-20
    UK W 24-13
    GT W 31-17
    HAW W 41-10


    GSU W 45-21
    CMU W 56-17
    USCe W 14-7
    ASU W 27-10
    BAMA W 30-29
    UT W 26-14
    VU W 24-14
    LSU W 52-29
    UF L 49-10
    UK W 42-29
    AUB W 17-13
    GT W 42-29
    MSU W 24-12


    OSU L 24-10
    USCe W 41-29
    ARK W 52-29
    ASU W 20-17
    LSU L 20-13
    UT L 29-19
    VU W 34-10
    UF L 29-17
    TT W 38-0
    AUB W 31-24
    UK L 29-27
    GT W 30-24
    A&M W 44-20

    2005: 13-1
    2006: 10-3
    2007: 11-2
    2008: 13-1
    2009: 8-5

    Tell me you wouldn’t have felt better about these seasons and where we are now. Be patient our offensive guys can coach they have proven it before let Grantham right the ship (and fire him after next year if he hasn’t) and we’ll be back where we need to be.

  10. The Realist

    While I don’t have an issue with the talent level in Athens, I do think Georgia’s recruiting philosophy is flawed. And, I don’t know if that is dictated from the top with Richt or if Garner is pulling those strings, but Georgia has fallen on their faces on some local recruits that fit a position of need (and could transform the team).

    Offensive line recruiting under Callaway was laughable. They sometimes wait forever to offer elite guys (who feel disrespected – as silly as that is), but they’ll stumble over themselves to offer a slightly better-than-average player that comes to a camp. They seem largely incapable of identifying and aggressively targeting areas of need (see WR). It’s almost like there is no comprehensive plan of action (which, ironically, is better than the alternative, considering the results). I think if Georgia was located in a less talent-rich state, they would struggle mightily because of recruiting blunders. As it is, a lot of in-state talent wants to come to Georgia, which keeps it competitive (this year excepted).

    But, I could be wrong…

  11. Irishdawg

    I’m not sold that Richt screwed up by not canning Martinez a year earlier. Yes, the 2008 defense was awful and kept us from winning 11 or 12 games, but it was also so injury ravaged that easily could have explained the performance. The 2007 defense was pretty stout, and earned Willie the benefit of the doubt in Richt’s eyes. In hindsight, Martinez wasn’t getting it done, but hindsight’s 20/20.

  12. scdawg

    Who on this team, besides AJ, do you see being a 1st or 2nd round pick? Who are play makers for next year and who is coming in this recruiting class that is a game changer? Crowell is going to Bama. There is no plan B. Bray? S.C. has Lattimore, Jeffrey, Gurlie, and we better hope they don’t get the Clowney kid from Rock Hill. Conner Shaw will be better than Hutson Mason. Allen Bailey and Greg Reid would make a big difference.

    I did notice Jakar “the hitlessman” was sitting a good bit against the vols. That is a good sign. Ogletree is the future.

    Good teams get beat, not blown out. Georgia has suffered some serious beatdowns against Tennesse, Alabama, and Florida. Richt is too slow to react to coaching changes and playing the right people.

    • Conner Shaw will be better than Hutson Mason.

      And that’s important because…?

      • scdawg

        It is important to show another example on how Georgia missed on another in-state talent. Face it Joe Cox should have never happened at Georgia. Joe. T either. So they find themselves recruiting a QB that isn’t playing his senior year because he screwed a girl in a classroom. That is bringing in quality. Lemay can’t even bring Peake in.

        • AthensHomerDawg

          Lighten up. He was in the fold before his indiscretion. I’m sure it has harmed him and punished him more than you and I. His Father is pastor of his church. Gee…. I guess you and I would pass up the opportunity of a hummer in study hall from a well intentioned cheer leader. I understand you would have … but me… at 17 I might have strayed. NOT sayin’ I would have cause I married my High School sweetheart…. but for ordinary mortals it would have been a temptation.
          just sayin’

        • AthensHomerDawg

          And according to President Bill……..
          that ain’t SEX.

          • scdawg

            11 arrests and the star of the recruiting class is a qb that isn’t playing his senior year because of what? Wasn’t there a db a few years ago that didn’t mmake it past the admissions board because he get some on a track bus? The kid ended up in Arkansas.

    • Biggus Rickus

      Was it the time he got South Carolina beat that sold you on Connor Shaw?

      • scdawg

        No, that was Spurrie’s fault for putting a true freshman in that situation. Notice arm strength and legs to run. Bad as I hate to admit it. The boy is gonna be a player.

    • Dawgwalker07

      “Georgia has suffered some serious beatdowns against Tennesse, Alabama, and Florida. Richt is too slow to react to coaching changes and playing the right people.”

      This seems pretty useless considering CMR has already pulled the trigger on Willie and the defensive coaching staff…

    • King Jericho

      “Good teams get beat, not blown out.”

      This also seems useless since we’ve lost 4 games by a combined 33 points. Not to mention if you take a couple of bonehead plays away, we’re at least 5-1. We’re playing people close because we actually have a defense that can adapt to a game plan and not go strictly off script no matter what’s happening. Our offense is starting to adapt too.

      Bobo’s still a young coach and has his moments of brilliance, but he has downs as well. I totally believe if Richt and Bobo weren’t so concerned with protecting Murray at all costs, he would be Taylor Martinez with an arm. This season has been interesting and unexpected on MANY levels. I think this is a typical down season that any program has, but I see signs of great things to come.

      • scdawg

        The blow outs were the last couple of years. Richt allows thing to get in the ditch before moves are made. If you can’t look at the size and shear “passing the eye test” of our athletes, your blind. Georgia’s atheletes don’t even come close to looking the part. I ain’t sold on Grantham. The move should have been made earlier and Chavis was the man.

        • AthensHomerDawg

          Goodness you give yourself a lot ball cred. Now listen closely…. I don’t think you know shat about ball….. probably don’t have a jock strap. But don’t front in the Senators arena. I hate pretenders….. move along. And STFU. You’re annoying good folk that know ball.
          just sayin’

          • scdawg

            I can get Jimmy the Greek on you and explain a philosophy about why SEC teams closer to the Mississippi have bigger more physical D-lines, but I think you know.

            Joey Batson at Clemson said they can’t really get that much more out Byrnes High kids because their S&C programs are advanced. Pretty much the majority of some of these kids have peaked before college. Tubberville has said as much about evaluating talent.

            I have a state championship ring, but no , I didn’t “play in the arena” of college ball.

            Your a Disney Dawg that hates numbers and facts. You probably are a democrate too

            Just sayin

            • Biggus Rickus

              Stats and Numbers Department:

              Alabama’s Depth Chart:


              Georgia’s Depth Chart:


              Aside from the lack of size in the middle of the D-Line and a couple of the linebacker positions in the first year of a new 3-4 alignment, which eye test is Georgia not passing?

              Or maybe you’re talking out of your ass because the team has lost four games.

            • AthensHomerDawg

              Well now I may not have a state championship ring at the HS level but I played for Orgel, Davis, Nixon, and Ghan while there. If we could have dressed a 150 players Valdosta may not have that many rings. I still call BS on your posts my bro in law has a ring… he was a manager. And your jock would be way too tight for me boy.
              just sayin’.

  13. Scorpio Jones, III

    I very strongly distrust any analysis of anything that is based on the “work” done by recruiting “analysts.”

    In my opinion these people are the very bottom of the bottom feeders making their livings off college football.

    The bring almost zero value to the process. If they did not exist, the question must be asked, would college football teams still know about players?

    Of course they would.

    Recruiting analysts only have value to fans.

    Any use of their material in any kind of evaluation is flawed from the start.

    And, ultimately, pointless.

    Georgia, and every other school in the country, based on their individual situations, recruits the best players they can get to fill the positions they need to fill.

    Rivals and Scout once awarded Willie Williams with their top player in the known world award.

    nuff said?

    • The Realist

      I agree with juuuust about everything you said.

      Georgia, and every other school in the country, based on their individual situations, recruits the best players they can get to fill the positions they need to fill.

      I think this is an assumption we make as fans that may not be playing itself out on the field… so to speak. It’s something I want to believe, but I am beginning to wonder how true this actually is.

      • Scorpio Jones, III

        I know that Georgia has to recruit players it can get in school, keep in school and so forth.

        I don’t know if, say at Florida, for instance, each player has to pass muster with an administration/faculty group which has the power to nix a player after he signs a scholarship.

        Sometimes, but not often, we have kids who wind up in junior college for various reasons.

        We also have kids who have the grades, but because of something that may have happened as a sophomore in high school, they are deemed not worthy.

        Jamar Cheney, for example.

        This, to me, speaks to the “institutional will” issue I have mentioned before.

        So what I meant was that we (Georgia) recruits the best players we can get based on the limitations we have to deal with.

        But I am glad somebody else recognizes the recruiting “specialists” for exactly what they are.

  14. Normaltown Mike

    With all due respect, I see very little talent on the D side of the ball. Justin Houston will clearly play on Sundays, maybe Boykin. After that, I’m hard pressed to believe any of our guys will crack an NFL roster*. Maybe with time some will get better, but nobody walkin the field on Sardee is a bona fide stud.

    With Rivals, etc. the tail is wagging the dog. The players tell them who is recruiting them and they rate accordingly (axe any USCe fan what happens to a Carolina kid when they commit to Georgia). When Bill Parcells and Thomas Dimitroff start evaluating for Rivals, I’ll give it a little more credence.

    Is this the fewest number of “players” we’ve had on D since 95-96? I was a heavy drinker in that era, but before Donnan got Champ, I recall we had Zeus, Philip Daniels and a bunch of stiffs (including Kirby).

    Not coincidentally, the mid 90’s were a truly dark era of Georgia football, marked by flashes of excellence at offensive skill positions and utter incompetence on O Line and D.

    Have we whiffed on some guys? Sure, but everybody does. Do you really think that Van Halanger “developed” Pollock into first rounder but lost his notebook when it comes to Brandon Miller? Or that Willie “coached up” Paul Oliver into an NFL starter but forgot how to do same with Bryan Evans?

    I’ll pose a different question: What are the odds that we got lucky with David Pollock, Tim Jennings, Thomas Davis & Odell Thurman? As performance at UGA goes, all should have been a “Five Star” by the boy wonder Jamie Newberg, et al. Suppose instead the above 4 turned out like: Aaron Scranton, BJ Fields, Josh Johnson and Dana Graydon. Would Van Gorder still be a genius? Would it be Van Halanger’s fault? Would we have won as many games in that era?

    All that said, I think it gets back to evaluation. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. What I believe is unforgivable is when you stray from your core region and make a mistake. How many LB’s from the state of Maryland are in the NFL and how many are from Georgia? I’m guessing Rasmussen had Georgia the early leader in that poll. So in 2006 when facing the choice of signing the Brinkley’s of Georgia vs signing a “Parade All American” from Maryland, what do we do? Yeah, awesome decision.

    To save you the time, this is not an indictment of all non-Georgia players. But be realistic, the Sun Belt and specifically the Carolina’s to Flarduh has everything we need to build our core. Straying outside to add a potential superstar is fine (even if they occasionally flop like Ward). But why go trolling for Safeties, LB’s, DE’s when they grow on trees from Hahira to Hephzibah and every town between.

    Some combination of CMR, Garner and other coaches don’t get this or don’t believe it. Thus we’re left with middling players at positions that are superior elsewhere in the SEC.

    *DISCLAIMER* NFL talent is being used as a barometer for talent. No need to tell me “you don’t give a damn about the NFL” etc.

    • Chadwick


      Recruiting philosophy, S & C, and position coaches on the offense need a thorough review after this season.

      McGarrity will demand it from Richt.

  15. TnLogDawg

    Chuck, one mans ‘butt load’ is MUCH different then the next mans ‘butt load’…just saying!

  16. Derek

    Our problem isn’t guys who can go to the NFL early, it’s having too many guys who’ll never play in the NFL period.

  17. The Original Cynical in Athens

    Clearly we have guys who pass the eyeball test and who have fantastic measureables. Where we seem to be missing is getting the guys who have the competitive will to not settle for mediocrity, who want to go out and physically dominate and humiliate the man across from them all day long.

    Everyone in the SEC except Vandy has roughly the same talent from 1-85. The champions are the teams who have Difference-makers, who by sheer talent, or sheer will make the plays that win games.

    I have heard the coaches and fans talk about how we are “really close” this year. We simply don’t have the elite studs to close out the games. I thought Houston’s play the other day was emblematic of that, when he had a wide open sack on Simms and inexplicably missed, allowing Simms to chuck one to a wide open receiver. Houston is clearly our best defender, and an NFL player, but that was a championship play that has to be made.

    I don’t see how someone could objectively look at Scu’s roster right now and say that they do not have more talent than we do. Alshon Jeffrey is every bit as talented as AJ Green, Lattimore may be the best RB in the country, Cliff Matthews is a phenomenal defender, Stephon Gilmore is electric and don’t forget that they are without the SEC’s best TE, Weslye Saunders. Beyond that, they have several other defenders who will play on Sundays.

    Do we have good skill players? Yes, they are ok, but they are not difference makers.

    Have our recruiting classes consistently been ranked highly? Yes, but anyone watching can tell that we have gotten a huge Star Inflation, the Notre Dame bump, because Chad Simmons is a very influential guy, and often overvalues kids who have UGA offers. At some point, one could have said that, if a kid in Georgia had a UGA offer, then he was a truly elite talent. That is just not the case right now.

    I heard a lot of excuses following Signing Day, 2007, but that horrific recruiting season is still crippling our program. It’s unfathomable that we let Eric Berry, Cam Newton, Morgan Burnett, Allen Bailey, Josh Nesbitt, Johnathan Dwyer, Cam Heyward, Ted Laurent, Nick Claytor, Jerrard Tarrant and Roddy Jones go elsewhere.

    It’s easy to lampoon Saban for the way he handles “medical redshirts,” but I am sure that there is a happy medium between the way he handles the situation and the way that Coach Richt is currently handling it.

    The Brandon Bogotay situation is a prime example. Some idiot on the coaching staff decided it would be a great idea to offer a scholarship to a West Coast kicker, who the staff had never seen in person, while we already had the best kicker in the country on the team. Now, instead of having a full cadre of 85 scholarships to go recruiting with, we only have 84, and one of them is being occupied by a backup kicker for 3 full years.

    Senator, as you pointed out a couple of weeks ago, Mark Ingram and Marcell Dareus were the 29th and 30th players signed in Bama’s recruiting class. I am not advocating UGA sign 30 guys a year, but it would be really nice if we were at least signing the full 25. You never know when a guy like Leodis McKelvin gets a good enough SAT score to qualify just before signing day. We are also killing numbers with the propensity to put walk-ons on scholly. I’ve certainly got no problem with putting a senior on scholarship who has toiled for 4 years and has managed to contribute on the field, but this season we put a freshman walk-on on scholarship. Essentially, the coaches are saying that the walk-on is going to be more worthy of a scholarship over the next 4 seasons than one potential new recruit each season.

    I think that the coaches have bought in to the idea of consistency a little bit too much. I don’t think it is right for guys to get kicked off the team to be replaced with someone more talented, but, at the same time, a kid who knows he can be lazy for 4 years and still retain his scholarship is a huge burden on the program.

    I also think that the coaches have gotten arrogant and lazy on the recruiting trail. They have not been beating the bushes in South Georgia enough and they are taking commitments from guys to fill quotas at a position rather than going out and getting the very best player at that position. I am still flabergasted by the offer and acceptance of commitment from Chase Vasser before giving Jarvis Jones an offer. That reeks of laziness and lack of accountability.

    While it is true that we still have talented athletes, the depth of the talent has been severely depleted and we are not getting the difference-making kids out of Georgia.

    • The Original Cynical in Athens

      One more thing. 2011 is looking like a make-or-break, program defining recruiting class for Coach Richt and staff.

      They need to be grinding their behinds off every day to go out there and get Rome, Mitchell, Dickson, Swann, Crowell, Drew and Wright.

      We have already lost out on AJ Johnson, the best player I have seen this year, and Brian Randolph, who is phenomenal, both of whom are going to Tennessee, and Shannon Brown, the best player in South Georgia.

      This is a very good class in the state, and for some reason we already have 16 commits before any of those elite studs have committed to us. It just makes no sense at all.

      Oh yeah, we are losing AJ Green and don’t have any elite WR’s that we are even going hard after. Makes no sense.

    • scdawg

      Spot on! Why was Andy Bailey given a scholarship? Would Saban or Meyer ever have 3 kickers on scholarship at the same time? ( Butler, Walsh, Bogatay)
      Omar Hunter ring a bell?

      Georgia is recruiting kids that allow the play to come to them instead of taking it to the play.

      I saw where a kid said that Richt told him he say videos of him on rivals or scout and he looked great……….what? Has this staff gotten so complacent that they use rivals or scout as a measuring stick to see who to offer because somebody else offered? Larry Coker and company were guilty of the same thing.

      The beatdowns will come. Sure Georgia gets Vandy and probably Kentucky, then what?

      The talent is simply not at Georgia. South Carolina is way ahead of Georgia in talent.

      The writing is on the wall at Georgia, and the beating of a glorified Conference USA team ( Tenn. ) hasn’t changed my mind on what needs to happen. Don’t be delusional, who is Georgia better than? Tennessee had 6 true freshman on one side of the ball at times!! Hunter raped Georgia’s dbs. There is no NFL talent on defense.

      • Derek

        I think we’ll see Justin Houston play on Sundays.

        • scdawg

          That is 2!!!! How many kids on average does it take to play for the crystal football/ SEC championship? Gonna go on a limb and say Florida, Alabama, South Carolina, and LSU have more. So relative to who Georgia competes against, they don’t have the same talent.

          • Puffdawg

            You are so caught up in making hyperbolic statements to prove Mark Richt should be fired you completely glossed over the fact that we have one guy on defense who’ll probably skip his senior year to go pro and another who was just today featured as a pro prospect on one of the most prominent sports websites out there. And that doesn’t account for the numerous other guys on D we’ve yet to see fully develop (Boykin, Rambo, Geathers, Washington, Samuel, among others) who may turn out to be studs. If Bryan Evans can get a pro contract, I think it’s safe to say we’ll have more than NO NFL TALENT ON OUR ROSTER THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL HUNTER RAPED OUR DBS MARK RICHT SITS BEHIND HIS DESK WATCHING YOUTUBE VIDEOS OF PROSPECTS ALL DAY THE BEATDOWNS WILL CONTINUE TO COME SOMEBODY SHOOT ME NOW !!!!!

            • Puffdawg

              I feel like a should throw in a few statements like NUFF SAID and AS I’VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG and DISNEY DAWG and ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY to further prove my point.

              • scdawg

                Say what you want, but do honestly believe Georgia has the talent that LSU , alabama, and South Carolina have on the defensive side of the ball?

                2-7 against Florida is the writing on the wall.

                Gilmore is better than Boykin, and Rambo is late to pass plays ever week.

                Missouri shutout Colorado. I don’t need to wait for the talent to develop. It isn’t there right now. Ogletree will be the highest NFL draft pick on this defense.

                • Puffdawg

                  I am going to assume for a second you mean UGA does NOT have the talent of Bama et al on D. If that is the case, how would you explain UGA giving up less than half as many points to USCe than did Bama, especially considering it was UGA’s first game against a legit opponent in a brand new defense scheme? We sure as hell know it ain’t coaching, right?

        • scdawg

          Who is Georgia better than?

      • Omar Hunter ring a bell?

        Omar isn’t exactly tearing things up at Florida.

        • scdawg

          Would you rather Omar on the roster or Bogotay? Please note that this program is being run just like Clemson was under Tommy Bowden.

          • Are you honestly suggesting that was a real choice for the staff?

            As I recall, the Bogotay slot opened up because the coaches revoked Dexter Moody’s LOI.

          • Puffdawg

            I would have rather Dwayne Allen be forecoming all along, but CMR should have seen that coming from a mile away too, right?

            • scdawg

              Bet Omar fits better than Tyson at NT.

              Has Georgia stolen any last day commits from other schools.

              It comes down to this. Either Georgia isn’t sealing the deal with the best playmakers or they are not developing what they have.

              Crowell will be a difference maker and has every right to believe he can come in and start or get significant playing time. Think he ends up in Athens? Nope.

              If you had a son that was a legit 5 star, would you think he has better oppurtunities with Alabama or Georgia? Take the red and black glasses off and honestly answer.

              • Puffdawg

                “Bet Omar fits better than Tyson at NT.”

                Like Senator said, how can I argue with logic like that?

                Did Crowell tell you he had committed to Alabama? He hasn’t called me yet. Also, to put the Crowell situation in perspective for you, Caleb King was hailed as the best RB to come out of a GA high school in 25 years. I am sure Crowell is great and I’d love to get him, but if we don’t I’m not jumping off a cliff. I wish him well wherever he goes.

                If I had a son who was a legit 5 star, I’d tell him to go with his heart. If he felt UGA wasn’t the place for him, I’d tell him to pack up his shit and get out of my house (just kidding).

    • It’s unfathomable that we let Eric Berry, Cam Newton, Morgan Burnett, Allen Bailey, Josh Nesbitt, Johnathan Dwyer, Cam Heyward, Ted Laurent, Nick Claytor, Jerrard Tarrant and Roddy Jones go elsewhere.

      Berry was always going to UT, Newton’s not an I-formation QB, Heyward was always going back up north where he grew up… UGA was never going to get all the guys on your list.

      And Josh Nesbitt? Seriously? He didn’t want to play safety, which is where Georgia offered him. What would you have done to sign him?

      • The Original Cynical in Athens

        I would have pulled out the Sean Jones 2002 Auburn highlight film and showed it to Nesbitt.

        Then I would have gotten Sean to send me his most recent NFL gamecheck stub.

        We can argue all day about the individual players and the excuses for why they did not come here. Bottom line is that they did not, and it hurt the program.

        • You have no idea how Nesbitt would have turned out at safety, yet somehow “it hurt the program”. How can I argue with logic like that?

          • The Original Cynical in Athens

            Because, Senator, the object is to get the “best players” and put them where they belong when they get here.

            At worst, Nesbitt would have been a 4 year bench-warmer here, and Gtu would have been starting Steven Threet at QB. I have seen enough of Nesbitt, though, to believe that he would have been a very good safety, WR or RB. I have also seen the competitive spirit with which he plays, and he has literally willed Gtu to several wins over the last couple of years.

            He is an SEC caliber athlete. Had he signed, we may not have had to take Makiri Pugh, who was not an SEC athlete, and that scholly could have been used for someone else.

    • I am still flabergasted by the offer and acceptance of commitment from Chase Vasser before giving Jarvis Jones an offer. That reeks of laziness and lack of accountability.

      No, that reeks of Jancek being an incredibly poor judge of talent. Remember, this is the guy who fought – hard – against taking the redshirt off Rennie Curran.

      • The Original Cynical in Athens

        If Jancek’s opinion usurps Coach Garner and Coach Richt’s, then that is another huge issue with the recruiting system in place.

        If the men in charge are allowing the filling of quotas rather than busting butt to sign the absolute best player, then, wow, what can you say?

        • The problem wasn’t letting the position coach make the call. The problem was letting Jancek be the position coach in the first place (BVG’s recommendation, BTW).

          And what do you mean by “filling of quotas”? Jancek wanted the kid.

          • The Original Cynical in Athens

            We already have 2 safeties commited this year, so we told Brian Randolph we will not be recruiting him anymore.

            This means one of two things.
            1) Our coaching staff believes that the two kids who have already committed are better than Randolph. I find that hard to believe, but, maybe it’s true.

            2) Our coaches decided that we would take 2 players at Safety, offered 4 or 5 and took commits from the first 2 to put their names in, regardless of where they were ranked in relation to each other.

            If #2 truly is correct, then we are letting convenience and “wanting to be a Bulldog” trump talent and working harder to recruit a kid.

            Perhaps, as you say, the Vasser/Jones situation was merely a result of mis-evaluation. However, I have always interpreted it as poor communication by the coaches that allowed them to get caught in a numbers crunch at a position.

        • Puffdawg

          I can say Jancek is no longer a coach at the University of Georgia.

        • scdawg

          Exactly! The head man was not doing his job.

      • 69Dawg

        +100 He was the worst LB coach at UGA in a long time. Rene was a red shirt until Mark ordered Jancek to start him. Like Belin said “who the heck’s been teaching you to tackle”. LB’s not containing their gaps killed us ( see LSU game among others). LB’s not being able to cover TE and RB’s killed us. (see every game in 2007 & 2008). Willie was not a good OC but he had a lot of help being bad.

  18. Vious

    The talent is a significant step down from Richt’s first few years

  19. ASA