Man, this Joe Posnanski post is so good. First, because of the questions he asks,
Ask yourself this: What would happen if tomorrow every single player on the Auburn football team quit and re-formed as a professional team called the Birmingham Bandits. Who would go to their games? Anyone? How much would those talented young men get paid?
…
Ask yourself this: Say the first, second and third All-America Teams in college football tomorrow went into the NFL. They just left. How many fewer fans would the college games draw? How many fewer people would watch Texas and Tennessee and Iowa?
Ask yourself this: Why do we care about college football? We know that the skill level in college football is vastly inferior to the skill level of NFL teams. Heck many Heisman Trophy winners are not even NFL prospects. Yet, by the millions, we watch. We cheer. We buy. We rejoice. We gripe. We wear. We eat. We live it. Many of us even argue that we PREFER the quality and style of college to pro, we LIKE watching those games more. But is it the quality and style we prefer or is it passion, youth, exuberance and that we feel closer to the game?
And, then, by the way he answers them.
No, college athletics is not ABOUT the players. College athletics is FOR the players, but that’s a different thing, and that’s a distinction we don’t often make. College football only works on this grand scale, I believe, because it’s about the colleges. The alumni connect to it. The people in the town connect to it. The people in the state connect to it. People are proud of their connection to the University of South Carolina and Clemson, they are inspired by Alabama and Auburn, Penn State and Notre Dame and Stanford, they identify themselves through Missouri and Wisconsin and Florida and Texas A&M. The players matter because they chose those schools, they play for those schools, they win for those schools and they lose for those schools too. Everyone, of course, wants them to be the best players available, and some are willing to cheat the current system to get those players. But soon the players move on, and the love affair continues, just as strong, just as vital. The CONNECTION is what drives college football.
I really don’t want to get in the way of what he writes (make sure you read the whole thing), except to say this: YES.
Get The Picture 
I will add a “HELL YES” to your review
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+1. It’s the same reason some people got into the recent US women’s soccer team: It’s the USA, stupid. Doesn’t matter that they are really only as good as a typical college men’s team, it’s the team of the nation.
You have sports teams, or even individuals, representing something large numbers of people share a connection to, there will be fans to cheer for he/she/it.
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Let me add that I have been saying for years that if you did away with all athletic scholarships for D-IA football, hung out a sign on the locker room door that said “Football Tryouts Begin Tuesday” and treated the prospective players exactly like they treat them at HS tryouts (i.e. everybody was given an equal chance to make the team) everything would be exactly like it is now except people who have no business being in college wouldn’t be there.The NFL would be forced to start a minor league and the kids who want a career in professional football but are not academically inclined would have an avenue to professional football that doesn’t force them to go to school when they really don’t want to do that. You could use the money for need and academic grants instead and players would be eligible for those just like any other student. You would get the same crowd of fans on Saturdays in Athens, Tuscaloosa, South Bend, Ann Arbor, Tallahassee, etc. that you do now. Anybody who doubts this go to see a Harvard-Yale game. You’ll come back with an entirely different perspective.
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Damn Straight.
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Wasn’t this guy a local beat writer in the Herschel days?
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Speaking of which…
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That is one great read. I was born in 1980, so I missed the fun. It’s one of my favorite things to read about, though.
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One of my earliest childhood memories is of watching Herschel jump over the pile.
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God bless you Senator. After a long week of work & a few beers, that almost moved me to tears. There’ll be another like the Goal Line Stalker!
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Joe Posnanski is a really good writer.
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Believe it or not, Poz was the columnist for the Augusta rag back in the day.
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Bingo. CFB is about school pride, tailgating in unique locations (as opposed to a mega parking lot in the NFL), talking smack, open air stadiums on a fall afternoon and so much more.
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+100
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I never played a down of football when I was at UGA, but that makes me want to go tackle somebody write now.
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I didn’t either, and I want to stiff arm your attempted tackle.
Go college football.
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I have always said college football and basketball are about your loyalty to the college not the players. When A.J. got drafted, 90,000 people didn’t all of a sudden become Cincinnati Bengals fans. I know he’s going to do well in the pros, but I could care less about watching a single Bengals’ game in the fall. It’s the key difference between college and pro sports. My blood will run red and black until the day I die no matter who leads the program and what players put on the silver britches.
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That being said, I do watch games of NFL teams I could care less about just to see the ex-Dawgs do well.
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I watch the NFL only if I don’t have something better to do. I hope our alumni do well in the pros if only to help our coaching staff out in recruiting. I love Hines Ward because of his loyalty to Georgia, but I didn’t become a Steelers fan because of him.
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Here here. I have become a Lions fan, at least more than any other NFL team (because I really give much of a damn about the NFL).
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FALSE: I am a sports fan, and I follow UGA.
TRUE: I am a Georgia fan; therefore, I follow UGA sports.
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I think the point is weak. European soccer clubs have rabid fans. So do NFL teams. The thing he ignores is the disparity between the supposed education a college football player receives and the amount of money he generates for the school. It’s not all of them, but for the stars it is true.
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Can you quantify how much, if any, more money, say, Tim Tebow generated for the University of Florida? I don’t remember their athletic department hurting prior to his arrival.
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I would like it if it were stated this way. The players are ALLOWED to generate money for the school. Like he says, take the same athletes and remove the affiliation with the school, you’d have no product. NOTHING.
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When it’s the Braves, Hawks, or Falcons, I am a big fan and I experience the highs and lows of being a fan. But when I talk about those teams, I say “they”, because as much as I’m important to their plan in that I buy tickets, I’m not a part of those organizations.
When it’s Georgia, regardless of whether it’s Georgia football, basketball, baseball, track, tennis, whatever, it’s WE. I’m not on the team, but I’m a part of that body. I went to that school. I was a classmate of champions, and I’m still a part of the University today and I always will be. No matter where my life takes me, I’m going to call Athens and the University of Georgia home. I’m going to consider the people who love Georgia like I love Georgia to be more than just kindred spirits and fans. There’s a connection there that’s more special than just sharing a bleacher. I don’t need a television ad during a football game featuring dozens of staged encounters between actors pretending to be graduates of my school to tell me that I’ll meet fellow Bulldogs everywhere I go for the rest of my life. When I met Georgia graduates on a glacier in Canada just a week after my own graduation, I didn’t need to write in to the school about it or make a commercial. We’re all Georgia, and that’s why these games matter, because that’s our team, those are our boys, and they’re better than the other guys and I know it with every fiber of my being. At the depths of my unhappiness after losing that one, stupid, single game in 2002… at the height of my anger after the seventh loss of 2010… I was thankful to be a Bulldog even in defeat and unwilling to trade it to win as anything else. It makes the winning that much more special. GO DAWGS!
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This sort of reminds me of something my wife said to me yeasterday. Being a big Bulldawg fan, she has UGA decals and plates on her car. She said that she notices a big difference on how other drivers treat her around town. If the other drivers have UGA swag on their car, they tend to be more courteous to her on the road. She also noticed that certain other drivers become more aggressive around her t00. Those tended to have GTU or UF swag on their cars.
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Boy, this guy really gets it. Since we already accept the collegiate game is below the talent level of the NFL why not clean it up and make the athletes become “true” students? How many problems would go away if we had players who could make the entrance requirements, need the degree enough to go to class and not hang out at night with people determined to drag them down? Certainly not all, but enough to make the focus the playing field again and not the courts, or NCAA rules committee.
I would love for the “super athlete” types go straight to a “development/minor league” when they leave HS. That is where they aspire to be, many could care less about college football traditions, and pretending they are on campus to follow a curriculum is a joke. Are there “hybrids” that are both? Absolutely. Let them choose the career path preference that is best for themselves, but if they go the college route they make it on their own…just like other athletic scholarship holders that don’t play basketball or football.
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Thats the problem tho Mac, as the Senator has pointed out, the NFL uses college football as a free minor league system, and they don’t offer anything else. A minor league NFL would go a long way to solving this paying the players issue.
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Amen. The problem with CFB is that it if a guy has no interest in going to college, but wants to play football for a living, he has to go through the motions of going to college. It’s ridiculous. It’d be like making a mechanic or a carpet cleaner have to go through the motions of getting a Sociology degree before he could be eligible to be drafted into the professional carpet cleaning league.
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Or like a futune 500 company requiring an MBA to be an executive. Anyone can be an executive. Check out Bill Gates.
/But they do require MBAs. And they can if they want. The NFL doesn’t require a player to go to college…just be 3 yrs out of high school. Sure effectively it works out that way but it’s an important distinction. They don’t have to graduate and pass the bar like I did. (Law school doesn’t prepare you for a legal career so what’s the point, really?). There are plenty of careers that have requirements so it’s not some great tragedy. What other career only cares that you barely pass…for 2.5 yrs? If a guy was good enough, he could skip college. ( But maybe college makes them better? Maybe?)
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Why doesn’t the NFL create a minor league? Because they can’t do it better than what they have now. I know that’s sort of a snarky answer (not meant that way), but if Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Arthur Blank, etc. thought they could create a superior product that made money, these guys would do it in a heartbeat. If they knew minor league football would play in Birmingham, Orlando, Raleigh, Columbus (OH), Fort Worth, etc., they wouldn’t be afraid of competing with the college game.
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Not that I disagree with you or anything, but why would the NFL set up a development league where they have to pay players when they already have a free system managed by the NCAA?
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AuditDawg, +1, sir
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Actually I feel an investment group could run the “development league” at a profit with games played on Tuesdays or Wednesdays to allow some TV coverage (dollars). I would put regional teams (6-8) in markets to create a following to capitalize on regional pride, it could even be one for each of the six BCS conference geographies.
I don’t feel the NFL owners would have to fund it, although used equipment and some coaches might come from the NFL programs. Players would only be allowed to play until they are NFL draft eligible. Just a thought, but it could kill 2-3 birds with one stone. I don’t care about the falloff in CFB talent, just keep the games competitive while removing the hypocrisy and drama.
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I like what he says about the players. I think the other thing that makes us love these guys so much and hate everybody else is that they CHOSE to play for our team or the enemy. You go to the high school where your parents chose to live/send you. And if you are lucky enough to get to play on Sunday, you have no choice but to play for the team that drafts you, signs you, or trades for you since you finally get paid for your abilities (except at Auburn). But you get to pick the college you want to attend and I think that is what endears us so much to the guys who CHOOSE to play for UGA.
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This – exactly
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As happy as reading that makes me feel (because he puts into words exactly how I feel), it saddens me that we’ve gotten to a place where we have to be reminded of what Saturdays in the Fall are all about…why 3 point buzzer beaters in March are so exhilarating. Makes me feel a little like an old man in a society that doesn’t make much sense to me anymore.
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I’m not that old, but society has never made a hell of a lot of sense to me.
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That may be the problem Biggus, you may be too young to remember that we once had a society that made sense. It is the “anymore” that makes Bernie’s statement work. We had it, but my generation fumbled the ball thinking we could change a really good thing. All we have done is fly the plane straight in the ground. And I am truly sorry for it.
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Bernie, I’m middle age man. I decided in my 20’s that society didn’t make sense, and that still sounds right. Don’t be sad about Posnanski’s column. Good things benefit from occasional reaffirmation.
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Exactly. Kinda like how your wife oughta know by now that you love her, but you’ve still gotta continue doing things to remind her, lest things become strained.
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+1
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Yes, that explains it.
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“Maybe they can have the players wear a little patch on their shoulders with the name of the booster who gave the player the money to come to the school. That touchdown was scored by Tommy Tutone and brought to you by Bob’s Trucking.”
Classic.
Until the NFL mans up and creates a minor league, this issue will never be solved.
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I love Joe Posnanski’s writing (and I do love his points about why we love college footall), but I don’t love his logic. He says he is arguing against this point: “College players (those stars especially) are the reason why these schools are generating so much money and so they deserve a much bigger piece of the pie. These sports are ABOUT them.” He says it’s the biggest argument, but it’s too simplistic. After all, it can be refuted easily – Florida made $X when Tebow was there and that figure didn’t materially change when he left. Great. It’s too simplistic.
If the players aren’t worth anything to the school, then why do they need to be prohibited from getting paid? Why aren’t they allowed to have jobs? Why can’t athletes get sponsors? If they have little to no value (since, after all, we would root for UGA regardless of who was playing there), there would be no funds in the market for them to collect.
Jay Bilas argues consistently and convincingly for Olympic-style amateurism. That’s where I have landed. The schools don’t need to pay these kids directly (although for all the heartache over paying athletes, many schools do manage to pay stipends to grad students, reporters for the school paper, certain student government-type positions), but the prohibition on them receiving income is somehow embraced by many otherwise ardent supporters of capitalism.
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mp, I see your point here. We’ve had this discussion over at Leather Helmet Blog (and here with the Senator) a lot. The core of the problem is that Title IX and non-revenue sports would make this extremely difficult to pull off without breaking the athletic programs at the bottom of D1/FBS. Paying players above the table with a basic stipend doesn’t deal with the real problem happening under the table. Do we think that Cecil Newton wouldn’t have made overtures about his son’s services with a stipend in place? The problem is the NFL has its three-year rule, and that’s not going away. I guess HS hot-shots could take their services to Canada (I don’t know their eligibility rules) or train on their own until the three years come and go. The NCAA and its institutions have their rules for eligibility, and the players have to deal with it to participate. I’m an ardent supporter of capitalism, but the current system is what it is. At this time, there is not a stakeholder with a vested interest who wants to change the system.
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If you can figure out a way for there to be Olympic-style amateurism without schools exploiting it for recruiting purposes, be my guest. The key difference between the Olympics and college football is that you don’t really get to choose your team in the Olympics. There are exceptions, where someone is multi-national, but those are rare. How many Alabama car dealerships are going to be giving third-string long-snappers their own ad campaigns just to make sure they go to Alabama and not Auburn?
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Posnaski is a great writer, and I generally agree with him. He’s right here as well, but I’ve always disliked the “They’re getting a degree for free!” argument because 1) A degree from UGA is not of interest for the top athletes and 2) The pursuit of a degree outside of their football responsibilities simply increases the burden on already overworked kids. I’d just like to see some effort made to give these guys a degree that suits them, if that’s all their going to get for their contributions.
What I would like to see is a method of letting the athletes “study” a curriculum that embraces the fact that they are athletes. Why can’t they get credit towards their degree by playing football, rather than have to fit an entire curriculum around an arduous, year-round practice and game schedule? If UGA gives a brilliant 18 year old Mathematician a full ride, the pursuit of his degree revolves around math. They’re not asked to work on Math 40 hours a week AND get whatever the most worthless degree the university has to offer on top of that. Create some sort of “Athletic Career” major and let them get some percentage of their credits through the work they put in on the team. If a kid wanted to get an econ degree he can, but if he doesn’t, and most of them don’t, they can at least get credit for the work they put in for football. At its core the university’s purpose is to prepare its students for their career. If they are willing to give a kid a scholarship to play football, and his goal is to do that as a career, let’s embrace that as part of the educational mission of the school. Most of these guys work much harder than the average student at UGA, (certainly more than I did), I don’t see why the schools couldn’t give them credit for it.
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Connor, good points. The only issue is that these “athletic career” majors would be significantly scrutinized by the accreditation bodies. I don’t think any university in its right mind would risk its accreditation for a “BS” degree in football or basketball. If we think college athletics is big business, it’s nothing compared to the dollars available for research and endowments.
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Interesting. Imagine the effect on players’ football IQ if they had film study in actual classes.
There’s a SNL-type skit in there somewhere, but I’m not talented enough to write it.
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Well played, sir, well played.
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I’m one of those people who say, “They’re getting a degree for free!”, so I guess neither of us should be surprised by the fact that I disagree with most of what you said in your post. However, for the sake of brevity, I’ll limit my rebuttal to your main point.
You wondered why these kids aren’t allowed to to pursue some sort of professional athletics career. Here’s one of the many reasons why I think that is a bad idea: Let’s limit the discussion to football to keep it as simple as possible. What percentage of college football players ever end up making a career of professional football? I don’t know, but I’d bet is is significantly less than 5%. So I’m guessing that over 95% of all college football players fail to earn a living playing professional football. With that in mind, does the professional football degree still sound like a legitimate, responsible sort of thing to you? It doesn’t to me. If guy gets a degree in engineering or accounting, his chances of getting a job as an engineer or accountant are a hell of a lot better than 5%.
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It’s probably an incredibly small number that end up actually playing professionally, at least for any length of time, but that’s still what almost all of them aspire to. And plenty of them that don’t make it as professionals still end up in the game. Just look at the UGA staff, starting with Richt, plus McLendon, Thomas Brown… The fact that they weren’t successful at the acme of the profession shouldn’t be a deterrent from offering studies in that field. I had a cousin who went to Julliard, she was a prodigy as a violin and piano player, but she wasn’t good enough to make a career out of it. Few are. The fact that most of their students won’t be Yo Yo Ma doesn’t stop Julliard from letting students get degrees in Music. Football, and sports in general, are a big business, there are plenty of opportunities for these guys, even if it isn’t as a player. A curriculum that helped them learn about those opportunities, and leverage what they’re already doing, would be much more useful than Urban Housing or whatever major we funnel most of them into to. I’m not saying this has to be a mandatory thing, if they want to try to work a bio degree in there like Stinchcomb, go for it. I just think we need to recognized that professional athletics are as legitmate a career as any other, that 85 scholarships a year are offered for students who hope to make it a career, that those students spend countless hours working towards that career… let’s just make it count towards their degree.
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I’m just going to politely disagree and move on. I think college athletes get one hell of a deal. They get an education, tutoring, (and in some cases) world class facilities, coaching, and medical care. And they get it when a great many of them wouldn’t have a chance in hell if they had to rely on their academic prowess. In fact, they get some things the smartest kids in school can’t get at all (such as the medical care, etc).
If they want to get an athletically-related degree, options such as sports management and biology/nutrition/physical eduaction degrees are available. I just happen to think getting a degree in (or even getting college credit for) carrying a football or sacking a quarterback is a bad idea. And your comments about Richt, McClendon, and Brown undermine your point more than they support it. They got those jobs in spite of the fact that they didn’t get a degree in (or get credit for) football activities. They got degrees that are possibly useful elsewhere, if they so choose. And to my knowledge, there aren’t hundreds or thousands of similar jobs going unfilled because of the lack of a football degree. They get filled just fine without that option.
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On a related note, does anyone know why Stephen Hartzell is leaving 960 AM The Ref? I only get to listen to about 30 minutes every morning online before I head off to work (where the 960 website is conveniently blocked, probably by the Auburn fans at our central office). I listened yesterday and it was his last show, but they did not mention why he was leaving or where he was going during the short time I was able to listen.
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A semi-pro league prior to the NFL misses a big point that is missed here. These players are coming from an environment and into a different environment as a part of passage in life and with an upgrade for their assimilation into same. Whether they take advantage of the opportunity or revert back to more immature times is on their back as it is on anyone attending college. Please don’t reply as if I don’t know what happens to some who revert back or can’t assume the true mantle of a mature male in today’s society. This is not about those individuals.
The stepup is a gradual assimilation into their responsibilities in life and better prepares them for being responsible members as wage earners and family heads. This is an additional value in their lives that a semi-pro environment can’t (or won’t) provide. The fact that it is my alma mater providing this additional quality to their lives is part of the pride that one can have in each player and the team as a whole.
But the passion for their achievements is what drives many of our emotions. Knowing that they will be able to connect those achievements with grandchildren and their friends is a plus to their lives that we understand and they may not. It’s sorta like a secret present waiting for later in their lives that we connect with in the moment of accomplishment on the playing field or in the classroom. And they don’t know yet. That makes the cheering sweeter. The connection to the megaphone opening in their lives is made. The great ones step forward into it and take a small part of us with them (Herschel!. Herschel!, Herschel!) and in an ephemeral way, include us in their accomplishments . Our school, our team, our player.
There is nothing like those emotions in any other sport or phase of this sport. No matter how wild or emotional one can get with soccer or the NFL, they don’t possess the “it”. Our Georgia, our Dawgs, our ________. There’s nothing like “it”.
Go Dawgs! Sic’em!
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Great read, Great post
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Agreed: Great Read, Great Post.
If all scholarship football players at UGA left & the walk ons became the team, I would still be an avid & loyal Dawg Fan.
It Is the University & the Football Program I support, NOT the individual players that change from year to year.
Yes, I follow the careers of Ex Dawgs & would like to see them all do well in life; particularly the ones I thought were DGD. Meanwhile , in 2011, GATA.
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I think an NFL D-League is a losing proposition for a few reasons:
1) All it will do is be a net revenue drain for the NFL who would have to subsidize the league, coaches’ and staff salaries, facilities, etc.
2) The talent level coming out of the D-League would be suspect due to inferior coaching. Like it or not, big time coaches will always be attracted to either the NCAA or NFL levels for the career advantages and the $$. I can’t see the head coach of the Birmingham Bandits hawking F-150s on Saturdays.
3) The D-League presents a greater risk/reward equation for prospective players. If you wash out or get injured in the D-League, you’ve practiced, played, and devoted a bunch of time without a degree to fall back on. You’ve basically majored in football, and not necessarily in the best educational environment for that field (see coaching above). If you’re not gonna play football, then you’re hosed.
4) You’ll have greater difficulty filling out rosters in a D-League. Sure the 5-star players (who don’t all end up being 5-star talent remember) will gravitate to the D-League, but where does everyone else come from? I contend that a middle-tier player is more likely to take advantage of what big time college has to offer (get his degree, get to be a campus rock star, letter, be part of something big), than go be a supporting player.
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+1, absolutely right
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If all the scholarship players at UGA left & became a semi-pro team, I would have no interest in that team. If the walk-ons became the new Dawg Team, I would still be an avid & loyal Dawg Fan.
I support the University & the Football Program, whatever happens..
Yes, I follow the careers of Ex Dawgs after they leave & would like to see all of them do well In life, particularly the ones I thought were DGD.
Meanwhile, In 2011, GATA.
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Most of the disagree to Joe P.’s article comes from what is referred to as bad logic. But the counter arguments are even worse when it comes to logic.
Consider this example, “If the players aren’t worth anything to the school, then why do they need to be prohibited from getting paid? Why aren’t they allowed to have jobs? Why can’t athletes get sponsors? If they have little to no value (since, after all, we would root for UGA regardless of who was playing there), there would be no funds in the market for them to collect.” The faulty logic in this rebuttal is that the rebuttal takes what is being asserted and goes to far. Joe P. never said that they were not worth anything to the school. But this is the argument you take. The claim is that his argument is too simplistic but the rebuttal here is along those same lines too simplistic.
Secondly, “Posnaski is a great writer, and I generally agree with him. He’s right here as well, but I’ve always disliked the “They’re getting a degree for free!” argument because 1) A degree from UGA is not of interest for the top athletes and 2) The pursuit of a degree outside of their football responsibilities simply increases the burden on already overworked kids. I’d just like to see some effort made to give these guys a degree that suits them, if that’s all their going to get for their contributions.”
The fallacy here is that the rebuttal contains assertions that cannot be proven and that sweeping generalizations are being made by those unproven assertions. Can you really say that top athletes have not interest in getting a degree from UGA? No. Are you them? No. Then your argument makes no sense. Can you prove they are overworked? No. Can you prove a burden on “all” football players? No. It has to be all because your argument is about “all” football players.
Thirdly, “I think the point is weak. European soccer clubs have rabid fans. So do NFL teams. The thing he ignores is the disparity between the supposed education a college football player receives and the amount of money he generates for the school. It’s not all of them, but for the stars it is true.” Can you generate and prove this magical level of “disparity” that exists between these two things? No. It is all best guess and supposition. The fact of the matter is that the contract enter into by the player and school is not equal. It should not be equal. Do you think that the inventor of “x” for company “y” should be paid equally for the profits made by his company? What about if he dies and the company still produces the product, does that imply that the company has to keep paying him? No. The difference between what company “y” made and what inventor “x” gets from said does not have to be equal or proportional. It just has be what they agree upon. Additionally, you claim disparity for the athletes and then limit your conclusion to just “star players.” This is exactly Joe P.’s point.
Certainly, Joe P.’s article contains a weak argument but it is still valid and sound. Just because someone calls it weak does not mean it is wrong or invalid. These people who claim to want a solution but when a solution is given are unable to accept it because they want a different solution. I just don’t get it.
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What an article!! Couldn’t agree more. If they changed the rules tomorrow and did away with scholorships the talent level might drop but the fans wouldn’t care. It would a relative drop. The stadiums would be full of even more excited fans because the parents in those stands would think their son who is a star QB (or whatever position) at some private school somewhere would have a shot to play between the hedges someday.
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Awesome! Couldn’t agree more.
I’ve said for years that if student athletes had to measure the 50th percentile in GPA and SAT for the school they attended, Georgia Southern & Valdosta would see a dramatic improvement in athletes and zero change in attendance.
I went to UGA, as did my sister, my wife, her brother, her parents and her grandparents. No matter how good or bad we are, beating the hell outa Tech is one of the most important outcomes of any athletic event from my view.
Culture figures so much into college football.
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