Those of you who are card-carrying members of the “Get the Cocktail Party Out of Jax! Now!” movement no doubt will find fault with today’s post from Bill Connelly, but sometimes stats are stats, people.
… The teams we generally refer to as the toughest to beat at home are, in most cases, the toughest to beat, period. The teams with notable “homefield edges,” really, are the ones who are much more stout at home than on the road. [Emphasis added.] The list I produced by comparing home and road results against common opponents gave us an almost counter-intuitive view of home-field advantage.
Based on his metric (although he doesn’t specify the time period over which he calculates his results), Georgia ranks 111th overall. Why so low?
… Teams like LSU, Alabama, Georgia and Oregon — teams known for having loud, mostly huge (except in Oregon’s case) home crowds — have almost no “homefield edge” whatsoever because they are also likely to play quite well on the road.
It’s not the travel that’s caused Georgia to endure a 3-16 stretch in Jacksonville. It’s the Gators.
Get The Picture 
That’s truth right there..
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Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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Until the mental handicape from going South of the Border are erased, this will me an ongoing issue with the Dawgs.
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“It’s not the travel that’s caused Georgia to endure a 3-16 stretch in Jacksonville. It’s the Gators.”
And if the reason UGA loses is because ” it’s the Gators,” hopefully that won’t change anytime soon.
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And it is actually 3-18.
Or 4-18 since Dooley retired as HC.
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In Jax, it’s 3-16.
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oops, my bad. I forgot about the home and home stretch for those two years.
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Can’t believe you’d forget about the worst ass-whoopin’ ever suffered between the hedges. 😉
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lol
Hell, i was even at that game.
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Me too, and I still wonder how Ray Goff walked out of that game employed.
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I wondered about that after the debacle against Vanderbilt.
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I always thought that had Ray given SOS a good old fashioned country ass whuppin instead of a handshake he would have become untouchable. I know Goff said he wanted 10 minutes in an alley with him in the post game. My thoughts were that he had his chance and should have taken it.
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You forget our secret weapon this year: your coach doesn’t know how to win in Jacksonville, either.
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Then I guess the game will turn out to be the movable force against the stoppable object. 🙂
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Mike, just 25 years ago, we would have said the same thing. Sometimes the worm turns slowly and sometimes it turns so fast no one even sees it.
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And sadly, sometimes it doesn’t turn at all.
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Don’t disagree. Two things happened around then to cause the series to turn in Florida’s favor. Dooley resigned as UGA’s HC and a year later Spurrier was hired a Florida’s HC
Right now UGA fans have to admit that three Florida coaches in a row have been very successful in this series. Therefore, the loss of a good coach at Florida does not seem to impact the series the way the loss of Dooley impacted UGA.
Additionally, no offense to Richt, but he is no Spurrier. He is 2-8 against the Gators and not as successful overall.
Therefore you can make a case that in order for the series to turn, UGA might need to hire a new coach of the caliber of Spurrier and Florida might to hire a new coach of the caliber of Goff. I do not know how good Muschamp might be, but he certainly sounds a lot smarter and has a better football coaching pedigree than Goff.
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I disagree, 2 wins in a row and the character of it will change. Right now Dogs play tight and Florida does not. No coaching changes are needed. Just somehow get the monkey off the back and play to potential. And lets be honest, Richt beats FU one more time, if Shockley plays, I think everyone knows that.
James
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Got to win one before you can get to two
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1
Here’s hoping that Muschamp’s pattern of successful coaching in the SEC *except against UGA* picks up where it left off at Auburn.
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Can’t seem to type this morning. The truth always hurts when it comes to the Gators.
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I like the game in Jacksonville, despite occasional snarky comments to the contrary.
However, I don’t really buy this guy’s argument. It seems like he’s saying home field advantage isn’t really a thing because the teams who seem to enjoy home field the most are also just really good no matter where they happen to play. Well, sure, there aren’t really many stadiums out there which will help a bad team beat a good one. Perhaps those raucous, amazing home field venues are also great recruiting tools which help coaches build great teams. No matter how good you are, it’s hard to go on the road and win. Good teams do it and great teams do it with regularity. But it’s still a tough task, and location matters, no matter what this guy says.
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Surely it is not the only reason, but to totally discount it is also weak. It is a series of seemingly small things. Short trip vs flight. Having a bye every year from 93-10 except 04, 07, 09-10. Very small things, but sometimes during this decade the decision has been by the smallest of margins.
Does anyone think that Jeremy Foley would like to play LSU in New Orleans every year? Maybe USC would agree to play ND in Chicago annually?
We could have played the Gators home and home during this period and might very well still be 3-18. But I would think that after a while, you might want to try something different.
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Um… they tried that.
1994: Florida 52 Georgia 14
1995: Florida 52 Georgia 17
At least we know what home field advantage was worth.
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So? Two years out of 21? Alabama beat us 31-0 in Athens. Lots of teams hammered us. This old argument of picking these two games is silly.
Florida beat UT 31-0 in Knoxville in 94. They beat the hell out of everyone in the SEC East that year and won the SEC. In 95 they were unbeaten until playing Nebraska. They put 62 up on Tennessee. They put 63 up on South Carolina. They scored 49 on Auburn at Jordan Hare.
These references to the two final years of Ray Goff as a reason why home and home doesn’t work is absurd.
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So it’s only different if it generates the results you want? 😉
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Senator,
By your logic maybe UT should move their series with the Gators to Orlando.
Look, the location absolutely has not been the reason for the lopsided series these past two decades. But to think it is not just a slight advantage is nuts. Ditto with the bye. Very small points, but very small points add up in close games every year.
I love Jacksonville too. It is a great atmosphere. But unlike far too many, I really care more about the results of the game than the tailgating with Orange and Blue fans.
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It didn’t bother Dooley’s teams. And the stats show that Georgia has been an excellent road team under Richt. So why is Jax a slight advantage for Florida?
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Yes, I wonder what the Gators excuse was back in the day when Dooley owned them, lots of those times the Gators had a better team too.
This is an excuse and until we beat them a couple of times in a row or go 6 years at 500 it will always be an excuse. You do not hear OK bitch about playing UT in Texas at the Texas State Fair.
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What these uninformed dunces don’t know is that it was FLORIDA that actually whined and bitched about the location. Let me restate that for all the stupid fucks on here – it was FLORIDA that complained about playing in the GATOR bowl. That’s why once Spurrier entered the scene as coach, he quickly told them that their little theory about the location being unfair was absurd since the game was played in FLORIDA and the stadium was called the GATOR BOWL. He engrained in his team’s and fan’s minds that this was a HOME game to them, regardless of it being the case or not. All Spurrier did was change the mindset and attitude – that’s all. As to why UGA does not play well in Jacksonville, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the venue and EVERYTHING to do with mentality and who has the better team. Florida fans were once ridiculous enough to suggest moving the game – we are just as ridiculous to suggest the same given our incredibly successful road record under Mark Richt.
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So JaxDawg,
Anyone who disagrees with you is a “stupid fuck”? My oh my.
I have been around a while too. I attended many of those whuppin’s of the Gators in the late 60s and early 70s. We were better. Just because we won does not in any way mean that the site is completely neutral.
What is the problem with trying out a home and home for a few years? We are not having success. That much you can even agree with this “stupid fuck” on. So why continually beat our heads against the wall and not give something else a try.
And please enough of the bogus OU-Texas stuff. Both schools are exactly 194 miles from Dallas. Both go the same distance. Do you think OU would want to play the game in San Antonio? That is far more like the WLOCP. Army and Navy play 80% of the time in Philly which is about half way. Nobody plays a regularly scheduled rivalry game an hour away from one of the team’s home stadium. Simply does not happen.
Again, I am NOT saying that the reason we have lost for 21 years is because of Jacksonville. I am saying it might be a small factor. Just like the other guys getting the bye most years is a small factor. We have been outcoaches, out physicalled, out whatever. But to say they aren’t issues is putting your head into the sand.
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Yeah Bob, let’s just not renew the contract with the city of Jacksonville and just for the hell of it have a home and home. Or even better, just to be fair let’s have an Atlanta/Jax rotation. Then let’s all tell ourselves that we’ve “solved the problem” and “let them come to OUR house” and all that shit, and then watch Florida come to Athens or the Dome and whip our ass. Are you prepared for the shitstorm that we could get from every program in the country who said that “Georgia tried everything, even moved the game to Georgia and it STILL didn’t work”.
Yeah, let’s “give it a shot”, break from tradition, and just move it and see what happens. We could win, but we could also lose and I don’t believe any Georgia fan would want to endure the embarrassment and shame should we lose.
AGAIN, Florida wanted to move the game and they stayed, and have learned that it’s not the venue, it’s the team and the coaching. But to your point, having a real AD who schedules bye-weeks before this all-important matchup is a plus. And btw, guess who FL played the week before UGA in the Dooley era? Auburn.
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+1 Bob. It’s an advantage that we give to the University of Florida on a yearly basis. We play them as an away game every year. During the Dooley years our program was just so much better than theirs that we could overcome that disadvantage and still win. Not anymore. That said. in fairness the Gators have had the better team most of the time which is why they won almost all of the time. What galls me is when the Dawgs have the better team but still lose (Exhibit 1-2002). Here’s the real problem: In even numbered years the Dawgs only have 3 SEC home games because they are considered to be the “home” team in Jacksonville. In reality that game is an “away” game for the Dawgs all the time. That is the real disadvantage the Dawgs face. Not that it cannot be done but it is really tough to win a conference championship when you only play 3 home games and 5 road games in a conference as difficult as the SEC. Moreover, in those same even numbered years the Gators have 4 SEC home games plus play the Dawgs in Jacksonville–effectively 5 SEC home games. Is there anybody out there in blogland that does not see that is an advantage for the Gators over not just UGA but everybody in the SEC East? I am on record as favoring an odd year in Jacksonville even year in the Georgia Dome rotation for this game. I know there are fewer seats in the Georgia Dome than Jacksonville Stadium (or whatever it is being called this week) but there are more seats in Sanford Stadium and the swamp than in Jacksonville Stadium, too. That should not be the deciding point. I know that the University of Georgia makes a lot of money on the game in Jacksonville including the “bribery” that the City of Jacksonville pays UGA to entice it to continue to play the game there. That should not be the deciding point, either. Athletic fairness should be the deciding point. UGA simply should not be expected to play that game as an away game every year. In the past Bama used to play foes in Birmingham at Legion Field as its home games in the series (UGA played there). But nobody at Bama expected UGA or any other conference rival to play at Legion Field every year. that is exactly what UGA is doing in its series with Florida. Playing Florida in Jacksonville is the same as playing Bama in Birmingham.
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P.S. I admit to being a stupid fuck.
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“But nobody at Bama expected UGA or any other conference rival to play at Legion Field every year.”
Mayor of Dawgtown, I hate to get all historical (that’s a lie), but the folks at Auburn have a different tale to tell. Of course, their tale arguably supports your point, since the uproar from the Plains eventually got the Iron Bowl moved from Birmingham (you know that’s where that game got its nickname, right)?
Going further back, the Mississippi schools have even worse tales about their conference games against GT. I may be mistaken, but I think Tech played its very first football game in the State of Mississippi in the 21st century, long after having spent 30-plus years in the SEC.
But indeed, this is ancient history, as is the fact that lack of facilities at some schools is what put many games in venues other than home and home (Like Jax, Columbus, B’ham, or even the grandest CFB venue in the region at the time, Grant Field).
Hare Stadium finally caught up, and Memorial in Columbus couldn’t keep up, so that series moved to Athens and Auburn. But by the time Florida Field became a half-assed decent venue, the WLOCP was too sacred to disturb. Still is, in my opinion.
Carry on.
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Thanks for the comment. I actually acknowledged the Auburn situation vis-a-vis their game against Bama which used to be played yearly in Birmingham in a previous post as an exception, I assume because both schools were in the State of Alabama. I just did not want to be redundant and say the sme thing in every post on this subject. Interesting how Bama dominated the series while it was in Birmingham but Auburn has dominated since the series became home and away. Food for thought IMHO.
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JaxDawg, you are dead on. Spurrier told me so in a private conversation the first time we met. The UF fans were acting like our weenies and whining about how he had to get the game out of JAX because they could not win there. Said he heard it in every single booster club meeting he had the first summer he was HC. My biggest complaint about CMR is he has allowed the negative fans to override his usual good judgement.
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Err…Senator, the stats about UGA being such a good road team are wrong because they treat the WLOCP as a home and away game for statistical purposes when, in reality, it is a road game for UGA every year. If you include all the losses in Jacksonville as road losses CMR’s road record is not nearly as good as advertised.
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What about odd numbered years? We have 4 home games and are a visitor in Jax. Big deal. What you’re saying is that Florida rides 1.5 hours and we fly? Is that all?
Look Mayor, my temper and stupid name calling aside, you are a smart guy and a knowledgeable poster – but I cannot agree with you on this one.
Moving the game doesn’t solve a darn thing when Florida continues to be the better program. What we need to do is (1) improve our program/coaching, and (2) stop beating ourselves.
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I agree with both of your points. In addition we need to force a change in scheduling so that even if the WLOCP game continues to be played in Jax every year, in those years where UGA now only has 3 SEC home games one of the current away games needs to be changed to a game in Athens for UGA. that way UGA would have 4 SEC home games every year. The better solution though is for the SEC to recognize that, like Bama in Birmingham, Florida playing a game in Jacksonville is really a home game for Florida so that the WLOCP counts as a home game for Florida. That way the Gators won’t have this every other year advantage of effectively having 5 SEC home games.
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Goff was amazingly consistent, was he not?
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I grew up during the Dooley era. Georgia regularly beat Florida in Jacksonville. We KNEW we were going to win before we left Athens. We OWNED Florida in those days. It didn’t matter if they had superior talent, which they often did. The Old Ball Coach and Corch turned that around for the Gators. It’s not the location folks, let’s move on from that argument.
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As ridiculous as I feel the “move the game crowd is”, it is even sillier to not think a home and home would be VERY tilted toward UF. Does anyone think playing UGA at home is as intimidating as The Swamp? As stated before, it makes no sense to change the WLOOCP unless you are an Athens business owner and want another chance to fleece the sheep every other year. Otherwise, all others who care about UGA are better off with the staus quo. How many times have we beaten UF in Athens or Gainesville?
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I love the game in Jacksonville. If they were to change it, I would want a Jacksonville / Atlanta rotation. Still “neutral” but flips the tables on travel, etc.
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We’ve beaten them five times in those two cities. Granted, those games occurred between 1916 and 1932.
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Swamp vs. Sanford is a good point re: the home and home argument. I love Sanford, but the Swamp is a better home field advantage.
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Unless your Auburn I guess, right? We’ve won in baton rouge and Tuscaloosa and in Dallas vs. Texas and in Ann Arbor It ain’t the place it’s the attitude. We have zero tolerance for adversity in that game. In the games we coulda, shoulda won our qbs turn the ball over constantly. In many we’ve simply been outmatched. We need to win two in a row in that series to get it really turned around. 2008 was our last shot at it and we couldn’t kick a field goal Or convert our red zone chances in the first half which demoralized us and we got blown out in the second half.
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Georgia’s record against Georgia Tech over the last couple decades is almost as dominant as Florida’s record against UGA. So let’s say they moved Clean Old-Fashioned Hate to the Georgia Dome and played it there annually. Does anyone think GT’s record against us would somehow magically improve by virtue of playing the game at a neutral site mere blocks from their campus?
No. So why do we think Florida is enjoying some mystical advantage by virtue of playing Georgia in a stadium an hour and a half away from their campus? It doesn’t matter whether UGA-GT is neutral-site or a home-and-home, we’d still beat that ass on the regular, same as Florida whips ours. In each case, it’s not the location of the game but the mindset: Tech annually craps its pants when we walk into the stadium and we wet ourselves when Florida walks in. It’s not a change of scenery that’s needed here, it’s a change of cojones. And maybe that change will come about if we tattoo Muschamp this October in his first Cocktail Party as a coach, but that’d be the case whether we played the game in Gainesville, Atlanta, Athens or Albuquerque.
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Because the mystical advantage is easier for some to accept than a) the team plays tight almost every year there and b) Florida has been better than Georgia all but a handful of years over the last two decades.
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You can debate A, but B has a lot of truth, particularly during the 90’s. Regardless, in that horrible stretch (which UF fans think is the entire history of the series), UGA has either won, or been within one single play of winning, in all but a handful of those JAX games. It isn’t the location that has driven the turnaround. Players either catch it or not, don’t make the crucial penalty/turnover, etc., and that is where a majority of those games turn.
We can blame where state legislators drew boundary lines centuries ago, or coaches, all we like: fact is 1-2 players either made a play or a mistake and that decided the battle results. This is a great CFB tradition and we would be foolish to walk away from it….and it is revenue positive.
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One way of determining whether it’s a bug or a feature is that in the 21 games played from 1990 through 2010, the average score was 32.6 – 18.1, (685-380). Instead of one or two plays per game making a difference, another way of looking at it is that we’re getting our ass beat by one or two touchdowns per game over the past two decades.
Insofar as the XII Step program’s Step X is concerned, i.e., “Continue to take personal inventory and when wrong promptly admit it’
Now, where’s my fifth of Old Crow
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Under Richt the average has gone down though. It’s only about an 8 point difference per game in his tenure, 27.3-19.1. Not that that’s good, but it’s not ’90s bad.
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I’d just like to point out that those stats indicate that UF scores below their off average vs us and that we’ve been atrocious on offense in that series. The d has shown up in more games than the offense. That series should be roughly 28ppg each in the CMR years but instead we are in the teens. Just awful.
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Prior to the two ass-whippings in ’08 and ’09, UF’s offense was about as bad.
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Agreed. Generally we’ve played pretty good defense in that game under CMR but the offense, save 2007 and 2004, has been ugly.
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“but it’s not ’90s bad.”
True. The ’90’s were a nightmare.
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D in F, with the exception of political, financial, and social issues, you are usually much sharper than this. The relevant topic was the game in JAX, so there have been 19 from 1990 through 2011. Of those 10 of those were either won by UGA, or lost by a margin of one score or less. Total points is neither bug, nor feature, nor significant. Had a play/break/call gone the other way, in some of those games this discussion would not be taking place. I am not excusing the losses, just baffled by those who are willing to put up a white flag. Give the bastards nothing, make them earn it. But the negativism and lack of fight in our fans can carry over and hurt the effort. UGA fans have allowed the media and gator-come-latelys to define the series. They still trail, they still have fewer SECs, and we are still likely to kick their butts again this fall.
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You’re right. I’m losing that laser-sharp ADDH focus I usually have. It must be because of the long off-season and living in enemy territory. It’s starting to get to me – not only am I getting duller but I’m the cause of dullness in others, not that there’s anything wrong with that. I’ve got to tape an aspirin to it and shake it off.
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Must be the Global Warming BS your buds have been ranting about, if it is this miserable North of the Border, the Sunshine State must be dizzying. But I take my aspirin every day, even when the leaves begin to fall off.
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“Global Warming BS”? Yeah, right.
You can argue about how much human behavior has contributed to global warming, but to question its existence at this point is like asserting that the earth may be flat.
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For the last 1500 years of the earth’s existence, it was!
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You may choose to believe whatever group of scientists you prefer, there are numerous groups supporting about any belief you can imagine. I don’t spend 10 minutes a year thinking Global Warming is a problem at all, so I am not going down that road with anyone who thinks this is a significant enough issue to discuss with all else that surounds us. I just don’t care; there are many more serious threats that will drastically impact/ruin my life, and that of my children, than questionable scientific studies that relate more to supporting someone’s political feelings, grant status, or financial gain from some “solutions” they propose be force fed down people’s throats.
While not something I have spent a lot of time on, my bet would be on cyclical trends that have been around since well before anyone could measure. No one really knows, no one. I do feel, given the circumstances we are currently facing, worrying about Global Warming is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The more immediate iceberg (s) we face isn’t going to melt and go away.
Crunch time is coming, you may rely on conversations with environmentalists to save you, I am taking my own steps. Relying on others has become so unlikely in our society, and when times really get tough it will all come back to you, and you alone. In other words, not only do I not trust a “village” to save me, I don’t even want to be in the damn village.
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What? The earth isn’t flat? Come on!
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Which reminds me of this,
http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/04/14/174986/aquanet-global-warming/
this,
http://ecoaffect.org/2011/07/26/cool-white-dudes/
and, of course, this
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Jesus Christ, I’ve been saying this for 10 years. We’re a terrific away team which explains why the location of the Cocktail Party isn’t the problem.
It takes an extremely confused person to not realize this. Or maybe just dumb.
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Wait a minute. Don’t pull your punches. Where’s that good ole “dumb fuck” that I just read.
“Extremely confused” and “just dumb” doesn’t quite have the passionate ring to it like “dumb fuck”. Stick to your object and modifier like a good Dawg fan. None of this condescending malarkey on this blog. Not as long as we can hide behind our anonymity and bravely tell everyone how bright we are with an occasional “dumb fuck”.
I mean if the politicians can be uncivil to our President, then why can’t we just do that to the folks who are cheering for the same team every game?
Try “chuckle head” or “beaver breath” ,but “dumb fuck” and “numbnuts” should be reserved for those who live south of Athens and Jacksonville and who have “FU” tattooed on their foreheads. We can all agree to that. Now Senator, you don’t have to thank me for heppin to clean up your blog. It’s my pleasure.
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You’re right, I let this topic (more than any other) get me riled up.
With that said, I think that anyone who wants to move the game is an idiot and a coward, but that’s just my opinion.
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Sir: We have been monitoring this internet to research the level of overt and covert discrimination against idiots and cowards present. We have ascertained that you are among the biggest violators on the internet. This is to be considered your formal notice to “cease and desist” from any and all further discriminatory remarks against idiots and cowards or else we will be forced to take legal action. Govern yourself accordingly. (I just am required to say that. Don’t take it personally. In fact, after reading your posts on this blog I am happy to say that the Board has authorized me to offer you membership in our organization under the “idiot” category.)
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I am neither so no thanks, I’ll let you continue to be an idiot and a coward.
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Mr. Loblaw will be with you in a few minutes as soon as he gets off the phone with a client.
Please hold.
Lindsay: The thing about Tobias— that he’s never fulfilled me sexually.
Bob Loblaw: Can you catalog for me the various ways you’ve been promised to be fulfilled whether or not said promise was made explicit?
Lindsay: You want me to be explicit?
Bob Loblaw: Yes, but I will be needing to get off in four minutes.
Lindsay: Well, let’s see if I can’t hit that target for you.
http://the-op.com/cast/Bob+Loblaw
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Paul, you are right. We knew that we were going to win before we left home. That was huge. Spurrier changed that. Now the roles are reversed. They know they are going to win before they leave home. Until we can change from hoping we can win to believing we will win, we will find a way to lose .It always has been an attitude & a Mind Game In Jax..
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A wise dude once said, “Pink Martinis for breakfast taste the same no matter where the parking lot is.”
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Our trials and tribulations in J’ville start and end with the fact that by and large, Florida has had the better team most (not all) of the last 20 years. There are many factors including population increases in the state of Florida (deeper talent pool), decline of Miami and/or FSU at a given point and coaching to name a few big ones. What that has done is to cast a very dark cloud over this annual match-up in the minds of the program, the fans and, in turn, the players who’s attitudes and perhaps complexes are somewhat fueled by our collective dread of this game given our recent history. Be honest with yourself, how many years in recent memory have you actually dreaded us having to play this game. I have for many of those years and if you haven’t then congratulations on being an incredible optimist and super fan! Though I think there is something to be said for the fact that the Gayturds get to sleep in their own beds on Friday night, our problems are self-inflicted and a change of venue won’t fix it.
Having said that, I do believe that the town of J’ville has sold out to the Gayturd fans and could give a crap about the Dawg fans. I have experienced what I feel are inequities and mistreatment of me and my fellow fans from police and stadium officials right on down to cab drivers and parking attendants. That’s why a few years ago I stayed here in Athens and had a ball. Everyone vacates this town at once and you can go and do anything. Not that I mind the students by any means, but being a resident it is very nice and refreshing to have people out of your way once in a while. So, I doubt I will ever make the trip to J’ville again. But, I do want to see us regain a little mojo down there and not walk into the game like we’ve already lost. The few times I have witnessed us walk in and play like we are the better team and at least look prepared, we win. It ain’t rocket surgery.
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+1 Bingo. We just need to go hang 3 in a row on the lizards with Murray, Crowell, Mitchel, etc. and it’s a new series. But acknowledging that JAX is no longer as Dawg friendly as in prior decades is fair game for a debate about moving the game to the Dome or even home & home.
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Dang! Took me years to figure out “rocket science”. Now you’re changin it to “rocket surgery”? How exactly does that work? Is it done to an Al queda member in Guantanamo?
All this reminiscing and heartwringin has taken me back to the poignant scene of the FU buses pulling into the parking area lined with 6 and 7 yr olds reaching vainly for the sky and extending their scrawny little middle fingers in greeting. It’s enough to make an ole dawg cry.
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I think there have been certain years where it was in our heads, particularly early in Richt’s career… but I really think it’s that the Gators have been better.. certainly since 2005. Not that we didn’t have our chances, but I dont’ think the problem has been what’s going in the team’s head.
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This debate always gets me irked. Consider the fact that for at least a decade now people have been arguing about whether or not Jax is an advantage for UF. Even if it is true or not, it doesn’t matter. The fact is that some people in the general public believe that it is and unfortunately the public’s belief has been affecting the UF and UGA football teams for years now. UF believes they have an advantage and UGA believes that they are at a disadvantage. Don’t even bother to debate this last point. How many times have seen a UGA team choke or crumble to pieces at the first bit of bad luck or adversity in Jax? Richt has had years to change the mentality and has failed. So have Donnan and Goff. Spurrier was able to change the mentality and UF has been receiving the benefits ever since. So, instead of letting this cycle of poor performance, bad luck, or choking by UGA for another year just ingrain this mentality deeper into the program either get a new coach that can do what Spurrier did (which would be very difficult because coaches as good as Spurrier are rare) or change the location of the DAMN GAME! Because until something is done to break this belief in the program (either a new coach, or not playing in Jax) we will still be having this debate 10 years from now when UGA goes 2-8 in Jax over that decade and the people that don’t want to move the game will keep arguing that there is no advantage for UF which doesn’t matter because as long as the fan bases, the media, and the players believe UF has an advantage in Jax, they do. This is a situation where perception influences behavior.
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UF has an advantage and UGA is at a disadvantage by playing the game in Jacksonville every year. That is a fact. (See my post above.) The UF teams have also been better for the majority of the past 20 years. That’s a fact, too. The real reason the UF teams were better was superior coaching during that timeframe. I used to think that we had caught up in coaching but now I’m not sure. Until UGA catches up on the coaching front……
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That is NOT a fact. In fact, the only fact in your paragraph is that you totally expose your lack of ability to distinguish facts on this particular subject. I understand your wanting to change it, regardless of how terrible an idea that is, but don’t say something as retarded as suggesting this isn’t a level playing field. Keeping opinions and facts apart will give you some credibility on this subject.
As a matter of fact, the ONLY imbalance in this series is that UGA gets a higher monetary incentive than UF….not that the decision should come down to simple dollars and cents.
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Right. Like Western Kentucky and other directional schools get paid to come to Athens and other universities with powerhouse football programs to take a beating for money, UGA officials have chosen to accept a lucrative payoff to send our team to Jacksonville yearly to take a beating for profit. I wonder if the officials of the University of Florida would be so willing to prostitute their team for filthy lucre by sending the Gators on an annual trek to the Georgia Dome if we swapped the amounts received with them so they got the bigger end? i doubt it. I respect the acumen of the Gators. They are not stupid enough to allow themselves to be trapped into such a bad bargain for their team, their school, their fans and their state. However, it appears that the lust for money holds forth in Athens above all things.
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I thought you were a huge fan of McGarity…?
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This Jax arrangement predates McGarity who I believe has his hands tied since a new contract was negotiated before his arrival. That said, I know he is aware of the “UGA only has 3 SEC home games” problem. Maybe he can do something with the SEC about that, like staggering the SEC schedule so that in even numbered years the Dawgs still have 4 SEC home games.
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Mayor
Mark Richt and his coaches certainly believe that and have said so publicly. There his players believe it. And so do the fans.
Macallan lover is right. When Spurrier came in, in order to change the mindset, he publicly ridiculed those that thought Georgia had a built in advantage in Jacksonville. Which was a view that Dooley openly fostered. When asked if the series should go to hoe and home, Spurrier quipped, “let me have a coupla shots at ’em. If we can’t win, then we can talk about moving it.” Seven consecutive Florida wins later, the mindset changed.
As a Gator fan, I love the fact that most people from both camps think Florida has a built in advantage. As the good Senator points out,Muschamp does not know what it is like to be on the inning side of this contest.But he probably thinks Florida has a built in advantage too. I think that might help him prepare, knowing that.
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If all these coaches and football experts think that Florida has an advantage playing this game in Jacksonville then…..maybe Florida actually does have an advantage. The advantage that I have been harping on isn’t about the WLOCP game itself. Rather it is the advantage of limiting UGA to 3 SEC home games in even numbered years while conversely gaining for Florida 5 SEC home games (counting the WLOCP game as a home game for the Gators). That is the specific advantage for UF by playing the game in Jax of which I speak, not some vague mental, emotional or travel advantage.
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UF had the clearly better team in ’01, ’06, ’08 and ’09. We still lost 4 more times in ten years. We were even or better in ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’07, and ’10 and won 2 of 6. Not good. No reason not to be at least 4-6 or 5-5 for the decade.
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I would argue Georgia was worse in ’05 with Tereshinski getting a spot start.
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Finally something you and I can agree on bro.
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I think FLA was better than the Dawgs in ’10, too although the two teams were closer. The Gators finished the season 8-5 and the Dawgs finished 6-7 and had a 4 game losing steak.
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No reason to change venues, let’s keep getting our arse whooped while we pretend it’s still the ’80s. Time for this crowd to realize Florida isn’t anywhere near the program they were when UGA dominated JAX. It is beyond idiotic for Georgia to give any advantage of any size, large or small, to one of the top programs in the country.
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Puzzling how CMR’s teams have had some recognizable success in bowls games…deemed away or road games, but he can not have his team even hit .500 in Jacksonville. Though home field is an advantage, it is not iron-clad. If you are “better” you should win with an occassional upset in the series. Ask the players what their thoughts are. I’d think many would prefer to have the open date and play in Jacksonville. It is a top-flight venue in D1 football. The history of the series, the special game for certain players, and the fans are just some of the factors for playing in Jacksonville. Mainly we play there because the teams like it and so do we alums…especially those of us in the southern part of Georgia and north Florida. Ask Buck Belue what he thought of playing in Jacksonville.
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You really think that we would be 3-16 if it were home and home? I would like to think that we could have won a few more at home. Seeing 3-16 makes me want to vomit though.
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I’m sure you would, but based on what?
As I’ve said before, if they played the games on the moon, it would have still come out 3-16.
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The moon would be a true neutral site. Not many bars, restaurants or hotels there, though.
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/MDWM
Soooo sick of the “win the party” argument you bring here, Mayor. Not sure what’s wrong with setting aside one weekend a year that you can get with old college buddies and family, enjoy the beaches, and watch your alma mater play a football game. Some people must take college football waayyy too seriously if that’s the argument you come up with.
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Sooo sick of UGA alums who care more about themselves having a good time than the welfare of their football team. Some people are waayyy too interested in having fun at the beach and place that above winning. Is it really fun to go down there year after year and lose? Wouldn’t it be more fun to win even if that happened somewhere else?
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Again,
/MDWM
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Keep doing that and you will get your keyboard dirty. You don’t have to have a football game to attend in order to go to the beach. Just go. Have fun. You need to reread your post above my previous post. In there you basically admit that you don’t give a rat’s ass if UGA wins the game or not as long as you “can get with your college buddies and family,enjoy the beaches and watch your alma mater play a football game.” That’s the difference between you and me AD. I actually care if the Dawgs win the game.
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Mayor, my apologies for being jerkish on this subject. However, I just have to disagree with your premise that me enjoying time with my friends somehow means I don’t care about what happens in the game.
My college friends are all spread throughout the country and this is the one weekend a year where we can get together and reminisce about old times while enjoying beaches and golf. To most UGA fans and alums, this weekend is that one time a year that we can all get together and do these types of things.
I get that you don’t think the game should be in Jax anymore and you’re entitled to that opinion. But this continuous harping on those of us that do happen to enjoy this weekend for reasons outside of the actual game itself has worn a bit thin and really isn’t relevant to the conversation of “how do we beat Florida”. I know myself and the Senator will never convince you, but it really is the Gators that have beat us 17 times in the past 20 years, not Jacksonville.
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Thanks for your thoughts. I have given up on moving the game as there is a new multi-year contract in place to keep the game in Jacksonville. My point (and apparently I have not made it clearly enough) is that the Dawgs only have 3 SEC home games in even numbered years because of the fiction that every other year the WLOCP counts as a UGA home game. It is not played at Sanford Stadium. It is never a home game for the Dawgs.Therefore an adjustment in the schedule needs to be made whereby the other Dawgs’ SEC games are staggered in such a way that in even numbered years the Dawgs still get 4 SEC home games. I really do not see why anybody wearing red should have a problem with that. Moreover, in even numbered years the Gators have 4 SEC home games plus the WLOCP in Jax giving them effectively 5 SEC home games. That is an advantage over every other team in the SEC East, not just UGA. What ought to happen is that the SEC should recognize that playing FLA in Jax is the same thing as playing Bama in Birmingham and make the game count as an SEC home game for the Gators every year. That is the simple solution–and the game stays in Jax.
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And that is the key point, the Mayor starts with a false premise and then elaborates on it getting further and further from the truth. That is why facts are so puzzling to him. He seriously doesn’t get it. I don’t know a single Dawg fan who wouldn’t give up the WLOOC just because of their own personal enjoyment. I also don’t know anyone who feels the location is a disadvantage to UGA. As stated above, the only difference at all is UGA gets paid more than UF, and that alone isn’t a good reason to play a game if there were other other off-setting issues which disadvantage UGA.
There just simply is no downside to playing in Jax, and it has nothing to do with the payoff, or how good the socializing is. Neutral game, played in a good environment, with great tradition. I respect that he prefers the change of venue, we all have preferences and opinions, but don’t make up false reasons to support your false premise.
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I no longer call for the WLOCP to be moved. See my post above. I now merely call for UGA and the SEC to correct the SEC home game problem described more fully in my earlier posts on this thread. I cannot possibly see how such could be found objectionable by any Dawg fan….. Changing the subject, I have been a lifelong scotch drinker (started at UGA) and for the last 20 years or so a loyalist to Glenlivet. While I have from time to time also enjoyed other single malts, I had never actually tried Macallan. The other night I was with friends at a fine restaurant and for the first time ordered a dram of Macallan 12 yr., neat. OUTSTANDING! I confess to liking it so much that I had a few more. I was so favorably impressed that now I am planning to switch as soon as I use up my remaining stock of Glenlivet. My compliments to you on your choice of scotch whisky, sir. As I type this I am, in fact, drinking a wee dram of my remaining Glenlivet and I raise my glass to you!
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I subject we can truly agree about mayor. Although, like wine, there are so many choices/varieties that there is no right or wrong, just one’s individual preference. My mistake was taking a golf trip to Scotland in the early 90’s and coming out with a love for what one bood calls the “the Rolls Royce of Single Malts”. I certainly had no idea, just liked the unique flavor and smoothness. As the yuppies in cigar bars drove the price to crazy levels, I was stuck.
Fortunately, the price has moderated, although the 25 year old has gotten well beyond stupid. Except for the new oak cask version (ugh), what gives Macallan it’s distinctive taste is it is kept in small100% sherry wood casks, and only used one time, after which they are broken down and sold to other distillers who use multiple woods for their own tastes. Macallan is rated very highly, but don’t be fooled, I tried another single malt with a comparable rating and almost poured it out due to extreme peatiness/smokiness. But to each their own.
If you have not shopped at Total Wine, I strongly suggest you try. They run specials on all wines/spirits, but the greatest savings are on the more expensive bottles. It is th eonly place I have ever seen a 1/2 gallon of Macallan, and I have paid from $79 to $99 for that depending on timing. I save almost $20 a fifth there from TN prices. Enjoy!
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I am also a Total Wine customer. While I usually drink my single malt neat I sometimes like scotch and soda, too. It would be a travesty to mix soda with a fine single malt so I also usually keep a bottle of blended scotch in the liquor cabinet for that purpose. For years I used Famous Grouse but lately have been experimenting with other blends. I now believe that I have found the best blended scotch for the money–Black Bottle. It actually tastes good enough to sip neat but its primary purpose is mixed drinks. It only costs about $20/fifth making it a very good value. I suggest you try it if you have a need for a blended scotch. Total Wine carries it. I would be interested in your opinion so if you do try it please let me know your thoughts. Best Regards.
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Why don’t we just cut the diff and play in the Okeefenokee? That outta stop all the towel twistin melodrama as to location. At halftime you can shoot all the gators you want to.
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