Why we can’t have nice bowl matchups.

Boy, here’s a ringing endorsement from Georgia’s athletic director:

“I would be more concerned it if were the same city, same site. For our players and staff, they’ve never really spent more than one night, actually never in Jacksonville. It’s always been St. Augustine. Heck, we play teams every year regardless. We play Auburn every year, we play (Georgia) Tech every year. In that case, people have always turned out in great numbers.”

I don’t know about you, but that comment doesn’t exactly give me goosebumps.

I was prepared to go all “if you don’t want a disappointing bowl opponent, Dawgs, don’t lose to Vanderbilt” on you this morning, but there might be an actual villain to blame for not getting the Georgia-Michigan meeting many of us were hoping for in Jacksonville.

Believe it or not, it sounds like Georgia’s bowl woes can be blamed on Kansas State head coach Bill Snyder.  No, really.

It was an up-and-down day as we awaited the official announcement. We expected Nebraska, then we were cruelly teased with the prospect of facing off against Michigan. Then it switched back to Nebraska again, much to our dismay. But in the end, Bill Snyder avoided having to face a loose cannon who once nearly assaulted him on the sideline, and I wouldn’t be surprised to discover that this is what the negotiations ultimately revolved around.

Bill Snyder doesn’t like Bo Pelini.  At all.  So we get Bo instead, for the second straight year.

You know, Snyder is well-known for writing letters.  Maybe he should consider writing our fan base one.


Filed under General Idiocy, Georgia Football

126 responses to “Why we can’t have nice bowl matchups.

  1. Russ

    Meh. Could care less about playing Nebraska again. And I can fully believe the story about Pellini. He’s a world class asshole of the Urban Cryer variety.

  2. LorenzoDawg

    Certain elements of our fan base think being an asshole makes one a good candidate for our next DC.

  3. stuckinred

    Who cares, it’s football!

  4. Scorpio Jones, III

    I like your “don’t lose to Vandy” meme better. Sometimes (most times?) life is simpler if you know less. At least James Franklin does not write letters about Todd Grantham.

    • Dawgfan Will

      For some reason, I read that as “life is simpler if you lose less.” But then I guess that’s true as well.

  5. I was born and raised in Lincoln (dad was an athletics coach there). I went to UGA. Last year was the single worst sporting event I’ve ever watched. I couldn’t enjoy any of UGAs success. This year will also suck. Perfect way to cap a terrible year.

  6. Irishdawg

    Pelini is most likely an asshole, but I honestly kind of respect him reaming Snyder if Snyder did run up the score. Just like I respect Grantham tearing into Franklin 2 years ago; if you don’t like getting cursed at, don’t act like a jack ass.

    • Dawg in Beaumont

      I’ll admit that I have no knowledge of the game in question. But if the score was actually 38-9 that doesn’t sound like running up the score IMO.

      • Pinkel had the best (worst?) running-up moment against NEB (though not Pelini). It was 31-6 or something in the 4th quarter when Pinkel called a fake FG inside the 10. Total dick move.

        • Dawg in Beaumont

          Haha, now that is a different beast all together.

          From reading the game recap I really don’t see anything terrible that K-State did in this 03 game. They were up 10 going into the 4th quarter on the road at Lincoln. Winning 31-9 with the ball and 2 minutes left they had their starting running back in and scored on a 3 play drive (6 yard rushing TD). I know Pelini was mad about the starters being in for K-State, but up 22 points it’s not absurd to have starters in the game IMO.


          • Irishdawg

            Leaving the starters in with a big lead and 2 minutes left is kind of a dick move. It’s not flea flicker to score 50 type of son of a bitch behavior, but it’s a little shitty. Mark Richt goes out of his way not to embarrass teams, it’s not too much to expect other coaches not to rub a beaten opponent’s nose in it.

            • Dawg in Beaumont

              They were up 22 and were running the ball. I think it’s a little over sensitive to be hurt by that, starters or no starters.

      • Will (the other one)

        Yeah. Did Pelini unload on Beliema after the much bigger mudhole Wiscy stomped in their ass in the Big 10 (sic) Championship last season?

    • Gravidy

      I’m no fan of running up the score, but it is hard for me to feel sorry for Nebraska about it. Nebraska has done more than their fair share of it.

    • Dawgfan Will

      And sometimes it’s the opposite: if you don’t want someone to run the score up on you, don’t act like a jackass.

  7. Chuck

    I keep searching the list of bowl invites to see where the Gators are going and I can’t find it anywhere? Help, please?

    Go Gata.

  8. sUGArdaddy

    The whole system is the problem. Beating Vandy might have gotten us the CFA Bowl vs. Duke or the Outback vs. Iowa or, God forbid, another match-up with Wisconsin. My hope is next year it will be better, as I think more conference involvement is a good thing. For instance, if the conference were looking at all the best possible story-lines, the the best options were:

    LSU vs. Michigan (Les vs. his alma mater) – in one of the Big 10/SEC bowls.

    Duke vs. South Carolina in CFA (Spurrier vs. the team that gave him a chance and his old UT/UF nemesis, Cutcliffe) -OR- UGA vs. Miami (Richt vs his alma mater).

    Mizzou vs. Nebraska (That ol’ Big 8 feeling, and a match-up that is a decent by-gone rivalry)

    Vandy vs. Duke or GT (nerds vs. nerds)

    The problem is it’s a grab and go and there’s no cooperation between the conference an bowls. I’m hopeful next year will be better. One thing that will help is we won’t be limited by how many SEC teams are in the big bowls. In next year’s scenario, South Carolina would be in the Orange Bowl vs. Ohio St. You’re going to have 2 semi-final bowls and 4 access bowls. In most years, we’ll have 1-2 in the playoffs and one in nearly every access bowl except maybe the Rose and sometimes Fiesta.

    It’s the current system that stinks. 1 more win would have gotten us Iowa or Duke. 2 more wins would have gotten us back to Cap 1 vs. Wisconsin for the 34th time. Maybe we could have squeaked into Dallas, but the don’t seem to want UGA, UF or South Carolina. If you don’t go to a BCS bowl, you’re stuck. Even then, you end up playing UCF or Hawaii.

    • Mayor of Dawgtown

      Right. Other than Michigan there really weren’t many compelling choices for opponents available. Nebraska, meh. Let’s kick their asses a second time. I’m old enough to remember when Bob Devaney ran up the score on UGA when VD was HC. Revenge is a dish best served cold. GATA!

  9. VoxDawg

    I love how McGarity implies that there’s a budding “rivalry” with Nebraska. They’re about as excited to play us again as we are them, (but they at least have the added motivation of trying to seek revenge from last year).

    • Dog in Fla

      They also have the added benefit of not having to face Aaron Murray again.

      • Will (the other one)

        Although on the other hand, after looking at recent stats, if our D can limit Abdullah, none of their healthy QBs are in Martinez’s league.

  10. uglydawg

    Your all making good points..and it does suck….but I’ll (and I bet you’ll) get over it and enjoy the game when it rolls around. I always love to see the Dawgs play, and this time we’re looking around the corner for what will hopefully be a monster year.

    • Dolly Llama

      Hear, hear. Bring on the Cornholers and let’s whip dat ass for ’em.

    • Will (the other one)

      I’ll enjoy watching it hungover from the comfort of home, but I do hope ticket sales take a bit of a hit. Maybe a tiny hit to the ol’ reserve fund will get GMG to loosen the purse strings and spend a bit more on football.

  11. Scorpio Jones, III

    Nick Saban on playing for the national championship (paraphrase)…”It interferes with recruiting.”

    So if we already know what they do, will this mean more time on the road looking for offensive linemen…like some of the ones Auburn wants?

  12. AusDawg85

    “For our players and staff, they’ve never really spent more than one night, actually never in Jacksonville.” Uhhh, Greg. There’s a reason for that. JAX sucks. Who would stay there?

    “we play teams every year regardless. We play Auburn every year, we play (Georgia) Tech every year.” Then schedule a home & home with Nebraska instead of Appy St., North Mexico at Lafayette, or other NIAA teams. Re-matches are not what bowls should be for. Granted…he doesn’t pick ’em, but don’t blow smoke up our asses either. C’mon Man!

    • LorenzoDawg

      I must admit, Greg is not wearing well on me. I like his baseball hire, so I will just shut up and watch for his next moves. I hate it, but baseketball may be next and I will be interested to see what he can do to upgrade our program……a tough job.

      • Mayor of Dawgtown

        How can a college that considers itself to be a serious contender for the “all sports” trophy have a basketball program as weak a UGA does? All sports are coach intensive but basketball is probably the most of all. Until UGA makes a commitment to hire a coach equivalent to a Tom Izzo or a Roy Williams type (I’m not saying hire one of THEM personally-just somebody of that caliber), we’ll always be stuck where we are.

        • Bulldog Joe

          It is more than finding the right guy. We have to stop shackling our coaches with recruiting restrictions and play by the same rules everyone else does (sound familiar?).

          It is clear our current AD and president have no interest in competing at the highest level as long as they get to share in the revenue of those who do.

          • Mayor of Dawgtown

            I’m not as certain about our new Prez as you are BJ. He hasn’t been in office long enough to know for sure. McGarity, yeah, he’s been a money-grubber, but he was doing the bidding of his old boss Adams. McGarity would switch IMHO if Jere Morehead wanted to go in a different direction.

            • Careful Mayor. Adams has said he will be “just down the road” keeping an eye on things.

            • Joe Schmoe

              Morehead is clearly an Adams’ man. Also, by hiring someone internally the BOR made a clear statement that they want things to continue to be run in the direction that Adams set. I do not hold out hope for much change from the new administration.

            • heytogoober

              Gotta weigh in on this …

              Dr. Morehead – who is not an Adams protege’ – and McGarity are both home-grown, and both DGDs. I really think we’re going to be okay with them.

              Also, Greg may be a little distracted. He buried his father last week.

          • Rocket Dawg

            Basketball is an entirely different animal in recruiting. If you think football is bad you have no idea how sleazy the AAU culture and all the “advisors” these kids have. Coach Fox chooses not to play that game and as a result gets the scraps from our area

            • Will (the other one)

              And worse, became the first Hoop Dawgs coach to lose at home to the NATS in 30+ years.

              • Mayor of Dawgtown

                It’s even worse than that. The Dawgs basketball team is 4-4 after 8. The only wins are over walkover teams. Every decent team they have played they have lost to, including Davidson. The wins are UNC Pembroke, Wofford, UT-Chattanooga and Appy State. This Dawgs team better stay away from Mercer or else get dusted. I’m not so sure about them beating many of the other small colleges in Georgia either.

      • Bulldog Joe

        Greg’s job is to sell the bowl and not piss the bowl people off for next year, so we can expect some turd-polishing.

        It’s too bad he can’t say, “I know y’all are disappointed, but I know most of y’all love the coast, love good seafood, love warmer weather, love golf and tennis, and love the Dawgs. We got all of that here.”

  13. Scorpio Jones, III

    “Monster year” We won’t be in the top 10 early…Murray is gone and we embarassed the dilbert know-nothings who picked us fifth last year by finishing 8-4.

    Monster year….Hey Ug…its my job, man.

    Please, please pretty Bitches…send an old man a miracle.

    • sUGArdaddy

      I don’t know, Scorp. Todd Gurley is awful pretty to pollsters. You gotta think All-burnt will be preseason #1, which will be delicious because they’ll fall flat on their face. Baylor will be a top pick with Petty back. FSU with Winston back will be a top pick. Bama will always be up there. South Carolina loses a ton. Clemson loses a ton. John Football will be gone. Oregon? Haven’t we figured out what they are? Stanford will always be solid. If Hutson plays well in the bowl, it’s hard to imagine us NOT being top 10. We beat We lost to numbers 2, 9 and 12. We beat numbers 8 and 14. We play numbers 2 and 12 at home next year. We drop #14 for a team that went 0-8 in SEC play and has a looooong way to go (unlike All-burnt last year). And we still get to play against Jeff Driskell.

      With a healthy #26, #86, #28, #3, and #4…which of those top 10 teams are you scared to face? None of them. Tre Mason had 6.6 yards/carry Saturday night. Gurley is at 6.25 for his whole career. Keep #3 healthy and we can play with anybody in the nation.

      • Mayor of Dawgtown

        +1. I’m drinking the Kool-Aid early. This bowl game is really the first game of our next season. We got Gurley back. We got almost everybody on D back next year and now they are battle-tested. The O-line finished the regular season strong, IMHO, and they are all back next year. If Mason is even half as good as I think he is……….

        • Gravidy

          The O-line is losing three starters to graduation, Mayor.

          • Scorpio Jones, III

            An O-line that was at best “inconsistent”….I know what that meant on my annual evaluation…I know what it means in this context, too.

            Hudson will be fine IF….IF the offensive line shows up early…only IF.

            • Gravidy

              I fear they will be “inconsistent” again. For the life of me, I wish I knew why the OL has been a talent black hole for as long as it has. Georgia recruits well at other positions. Why not on the OL? It used to be fashionable to blame Neil Callaway, but we don’t have him to kick around anymore. What’s the excuse now?

              • LorenzoDawg

                We don’t have Neil, but we have had two of his close proteges with the same schemes and same results.

          • Mayor of Dawgtown

            Lee, Burnette and Frix graduate. Theus, Beard, Dantzler, Kubanlow, Cardiello, Andrews, Ward, McQuillen, Long, Sculin, Pike, Swilley, Houston, Debell and Welch are all back. Several of those coming back either started (Andrews, Theus) or played a significant amount (Houston, others) throughout the entire season. This is college. Some kids are going to leave every year. EVERYBODY can’t come back at every position. I’m still drinking the Kool-Aid. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

            • Joe Schmoe

              Houston played enough to demonstrate that he simply is not a SEC o-lineman. He is a good story but was absolutely terrible every time he played.

              • mp

                Really was exposed at tackle…clearly guard is his only chance to compete

                • Dawgfan Will

                  This seems to be our problem: we have a shit-ton of linemen who could play guard really well, but couldn’t find more than one decent tackle if we had Cam Newton money.

                  • Mayor of Dawgtown

                    I hope my rosy post above is not misinterpreted to mean that I think there are no problems at all with the O-line. I posted on this blog a couple of weeks ago that we have a problem at tackle and should go through a national search to find the best tackles in a JC anywhere in the country, at least 1 but 2 would be better. I still believe that. But we have 2 starters from the O-line and a whole lot more with game experience coming back. If we could just find one real stud to plug into left tackle I really think the O-line will be fine. I agree about Houston–he’s a guard. If they play him at guard he’ll do better. The O-line ain’t perfect. But we’re only 1 position away IMHO. I’m still drinking the Kool-Aid.

              • SAtownDawg

                completely agree

            • Gravidy

              Gates is also graduating. But far be it from me to stand between a man and his Kool-Aid. Slurp at will, sir. 😉

          • RugbyDawg79

            Pyke Kublanow and Houston or Beard might be a step up–having Malcome,Terry and Marshall-plus the 2 Fr. RB’s—I will drink that kool-aid

          • Dawgfan Will

            I’ll worry about losing starters on the o-line when those starters are consistent enough that losing them will matter.

        • Joe Schmoe

          You didn’t see the same first halves of the Auburn and Tech games that I did. In the games I watched, the O-line might has well have not even been on the field because they sure as shit weren’t blocking anybody.

      • Midtown Dawg

        Tru, most o’ dat. But I think next year, as this, will depend on whether a defense shows up in Athens.

      • Im pretty sure the only game we lost that #3 was on the field all 4qtrs was Auburn? Kid is a man-child!

        • Scorpio Jones, III

          Here’s a deep, dark thought….many of the African tribes believe that to eat a tortoise is to incur a curse that lasts till the tortoise eater dies.

          Kinda like breaking a mirror, but more permanent.

          Its just one of those thoughts that swims through your brain when you try to figure out what the fuck happened to us this year.

          But what if Jan Kemp was the tortoise?

          Kharmic Bitches, indeed.

          • Snake bit.?
            Lived and worked in Africa. No love lost there. There are a lot of tribes. I thought the turtle superstitions were Taiwanese gamblers. I lived in Taiwan for 4 months with my Father when he was in SAC. I had two Taiwanese Captains for instructors while there. I was 10. The turtle superstitions were a big deal.
            The Jan Kemp thing is kinda odd. So Georgia ate Ms. Kemp. You’re probably right. She was a pretty miserable person towards the end. That whole episode consumed her.

            • Scorpio Jones, III

              Turtle superstitions apparently cross conference lines🙂

              Actually, I think I meant Jan Kemp was an indication of the turtle we were eating by, in a sense, corrupting the educational mission of the university for football reasons….that would be the actual turtle we ate. Jan Kemp was the garlic that got us later. She was not the only person consumed by that episode…not by a long shot…see Davidson, Fred C, and some would say Dooley, Vincent…sho as shit got Ray, not the only reason, but a sizeable percentage.

              Course all this is more than likely the confused ramblings of yer proto typical Georgia fans getting ready for next year’s disappointment.

              Funny, my Bama buddy maintains it ain’t any easier being him, either.

              My Auburn friends, on the other hand, are giggling maniacally as they pack their rusty pickups for Pasadena.


              Shit don’t get any easier, do it Homey?

              • It ain’t right. How do you get so good, so unlucky, and sooo unappreciated as our Dawgs? World is upside down my man. My sons are now trying to boss me about my health and my bride ( who has always had a bossy side–not that there is anything wrong with that) is too. I’m right popular these holiday times with the invites from well meaning Barner friends. But I’m suspicious. Where were these invites last year and the year before? At any rate… “Hold the Line Scorp…. STAY with me.”😉

        • sUGArdaddy

          You are correct, sir. And he wasn’t 100%. And we had it one but for a miracle.

  14. Blech. Sick of Big 10 teams in general, honestly. I’d rather play the Dookies- they’re a fun team to watch (yeah, you wouldn’t know it from the FSU game, but that was FSU), Jamison Crowder would test our secondary, and they had a damn good season. Not only for Duke, but for anyone. Jacksonville is the worst city on earth. Give me Atlanta any day.

    I have a feeling if we get up two scores, Nebraska fans will join us in rooting for the Dawgs.

    • Mayor of Dawgtown

      It way be the last game for Bo as HC in Lincoln. Let’s give him a really strong going away gift.

  15. Irishdawg

    Why does Jacksonville suck so bad? It’s got the ocean and the St John’s river, it should be awesome. But it always seems seedy and run down to me. Any civic planners here who can explain why the ball got dropped so badly?

  16. Jesus, Bo Pelini is an ass. We went from playing either Michigan or Miami and got Nebraska. Just FML. Really.

    Best thing I can do is just not think about football at all for a couple of weeks. At this point, I’d rather have played UH in B’ham. Yeah. I said it.

  17. James

    Can I ask why a Michigan matchup is so interesting for UGA? You know they’re kind of terrible.

    • James

      Put another way, by any other name they are Minnesota, unless it’s because you’re impressed by the brand, in which case this entire bowl system is setup on exactly that stupid premise.

    • The novelty. It’s been decades since the two met.

    • Mayor of Dawgtown

      Plus, the Wolverines have the highest all-time winning percentage in CFB and we can beat their asses with ease this year IMHO.

      • I personally could give a crap about playing any Big”I’m not sure how many members they now have” team. For being the most dominant conference in the game we sure have shitty bowl tie ins. But yeah, Michigan would be better than playing the same freaking team we played last year!!!

        It’s pretty sad that the old Peach Bowl which isn’t even a NYD game is most years a better matchup and more exciting game than most of supposedly more prestigious Jan 1st games.

  18. Will Trane

    In the past decade how many SEC teams have played the same opponent in a bowl back to back. I would like for the AD to answer that. Plus how many play back to back games in the same stadium and city they played a regular season game. I’ll say it again our AD and Athletic Board are worthless.

    • sUGArdaddy

      Um, South Carolina played Ohio St. in the Outback in 2000 and 2001. Clemson and Auburn have opened the season in the dome only to finish there, too. It happens. If you want to blame someone, blame the Wild Wings bowl for taking 7-5 Mich over 8-4 Nebraska, who also beat Mich.

  19. Will Trane

    The real issue is that once in a century, over-the-hill coached Duke team. Where in hell does the ACC have a priority over a SECCG site? The coaches should be raising hell with the AD and Company this morning. I phoning in my damn complaint. Every alum should hit the switchboard. SEC owes us big time.

    • D.N. Nation

      “Where in hell does the ACC have a priority over a SECCG site?”

      Texas A&M, who plays in the SEC, will be playing in the Chick-fil-A Bowl. Unless you’re arguing that the CFA Bowl should be between two SEC teams. Which, um. Wut?

      “The real issue is that once in a century, over-the-hill coached Duke team.”

      Cutcliffe should be NCOY. Duke won 10 games and could’ve easily won 11. They led the nation in 4th quarter point differential. Going into the ACCG, they gave up like 30 points in the 4th all season. They destroyed Miami. Yeah, it’s Duke, but they’re good. They got rightfully stomped by FSU, but everyone else did too.

  20. Will Trane

    Every TV game in which the Dawgs played in this season was very exciting. Now how exciting was that freaking ACC championship game between Duke and FSU. That game was over when the sound of the kick off whistle hit the upper deck. Atlanta, SEC, and ChicFilA are pitiful. One full year boycott of Chic Fil A.

    • D.N. Nation


      If you’re complaining about Duke being in the CFA, you’re complaining about them being there over Miami. Who they smoked and finished ahead of in their division standings. If you’re complaining about Duke being in the CFA over Georgia, then you don’t know how tie-ins work.

    • The other Doug

      You aren’t making any sense.

      • Dog in Fla

        Some say it stopped making sense when they took him 75 klicks above the Dough Long bridge and dropped him in the water

  21. cube

    Bill Snyder and Bo Pelini have lost control of Georgia’s football program.

  22. Dog in Fla

    In the Immortal Words™ of Gator Bowl President Rick Catlett, there is no issue because it’s totally different:

    “While we would not want to bring back a team or teams from the year before, we don’t see any issue at all with bringing two teams back that played in the Capital One Bowl last year,” Catlett said. “This is a totally different game.”


    • Silver Creek Dawg

      You might feel that way Rick, but i would bet the respective fanbases would beg to differ…

    • Bulldog Joe

      …and a different Georgia team on defense, at QB, at receiver, and in the backfield.

      I like Mason getting playing experience in that stadium.

  23. Been in Jax for over 35yrs, great beaches and golf courses. Its not Miami or Mickey Mouse Orlando. I watched Herschel run over the Gatas three years in a row! I watched Dooley stick it to Andre Rison the last time the
    Dawgs played in the Gator Bowl. Don’t confuse Jacksonville with any other
    city in the state its a hard working military town with a large UGA following. Now as a Jag season ticket holder It’s def been a long time since 1999 and our 14-2 season. I was also in Orlando last year at the dungeon called the Citrus Bowl it as like a ACC stadium total garbage. Yes I’m bitter we got screwed by playing Nebraska again but look on the bright side its better than sitting at home with our SEC brethren the 4 and 8’ers in G-vegas.

  24. Will Trane

    It is our understanding that CFA Bowl wanted A&M – UGA matchup. But those winnies…ACC President and Bill Snyder pitched a damn fit about it. Maybe KSU and Duke will get their sorry asses hauled back to face the same damn teams next year. Who wants to see Johnny football beat the hell out of Duke.

    • Contractually, CFA can’t match two SEC teams, Will, “your” understanding or otherwise.

    • Anon

      This comment undoes any cogent point you’ve ever made.

    • D.N. Nation

      “It is our understanding that CFA Bowl wanted A&M – UGA matchup.”


      “ACC President and Bill Snyder pitched a damn fit about it.”

      Bill Snyder’s issue was with the BWW Bowl, not the CFA.

    • dudetheplayer

      “It is our understanding”

      Now I realize why you make several successful incoherent posts in every topic instead of condensing your thoughts like every else.

  25. Will Trane

    ACC. There are only 2-3 teams in that conference…FSU, Miami, and Clemson. Reason there is a Duke in a bowl picture. None of those other schools in Carolina field a football team except about once a decade [see Duke this year].

    • D.N. Nation

      ACC. There are only 2-3 teams in that conference…FSU, Miami, and Clemson. Reason there is a Duke in a bowl picture.

      Duke beat Miami 48-30 this year.

  26. I would rather we play Northern Illinois than Duke. I was so happy when I found out we were not going to get stuck with Duke that it was impossible for me to be disappointed.

  27. Athens Dog

    Will be nice to watch in Athens on my 65″

  28. Spike

    Athens Dog.. Come on down, and bring the Booger Bus!!

  29. 69Dawg

    It’s going to be fun watching the AD put lipstick on this pig.

  30. JRW7

    It’s going to be embarrassing when nobody shows up!

  31. Andrew

    McGarrity needs to visit UDubs AD for lessons. Dude must be one shrewd mf’er. Helped Sark pack his bags and used that buyout to make the hiring coup of the century. No one in America could get Petersen but they did. Eat it, Pat Haden.