I need a shower after reading this.
“Anybody, as my daddy would say, with one eye and half-sense knows there are some things that needed to be done that weren’t done,” Meggs said after the luncheon.
Filed under Crime and Punishment
That ol’ Heisman Trophy is shining brighter than ever.
Absolutely slimy. I wonder what the NFL digs up next year when he’s draft eligible. Their investigators are relentless on things like this.
Roethlisberger will show him how to handle these situations and it will be all good.
As a father of two girls (both of whom are steadily preparing both academically and otherwise to be UGA students one day) I keep a fairly close eye on crime in and around the campus. We all joke about how ol’ Jimmy Williamson and the boys have it out for UGA athletes, but when a non-scooter related and actual crime occurs at UGA, it raises an eyebrow or two. Not of disdain mind you. Crime is going to happen on campuses across the nation. But of curiosity to see how the police and specifically the admins respond to keeping the campus as safe as possible.
Anyway, I know if I had a daughter looking at FSU right now…her list would most certainly be narrowed down to institutions outside of Tallahassee FL.
You must be seeing information that I have missed. There is no question there was a botched investigation from normal protocol but much of that seems to have been a result of actions by the accuser herself. But even after almost a year and a half of scrutiny, there is no evidence of rape, only sex. From what I have read, and I have followed the reports that have been made public, it seems as a father I would have more concerns about my daughter’s judgment than her safety.
I am not minimizing crime on campus but what has been shown publicly looks like another of many sleazy incidents that occur near all campuses when alcohol and raging hormones collide these days. Singling out FSU seems unwarranted by the published facts, in fact, they are only getting this public black eye because of Winston’s celebrity. All campuses seem likely to under report crime of all types for public relations reasons and this should be put under the public spotlight more.
There is no question there was a botched investigation from normal protocol but much of that seems to have been a result of actions by the accuser herself.
Amazing you can say that, Mac.
How so? Going on memory here but:
1. She doesn’t immediately call 911
2. Says she is confused and doesn’t remember clearly what happened
3. Doesn’t know who the young man was
4. Exhibits no visible bruising
5. Admits to having portions of 5-6 drinks
6. Left the bar willingly with three men, one of whom she gave her phone #
7. Willingly accepts a ride home from the one she now accuses
8. Has DNA from two separate males on the shorts she was wearing
9. Isn’t sure she wants to file any charges
Until her family finds out and her aunt begins to push for a deeper investigation, the accuser seems to have been willing to move on. I don’t disagree the police didn’t botch several aspects of the investigation but I don’t see a case for rape and I can see how a police department didn’t feel this was the serious incident it is now being made out to be. And I can agree that getting a guilty verdict would be next to impossible, not because Winston is the accused but because the evidence is not only he said-she said but the known facts make this look consensual.
Look, I had a daughter who went to FSU, and have a niece there now, I am a pretty strong law and order proponent but just don’t feel Tallahassee is any more dangerous of an environment than other large campus areas in this country. As to the competency of the TPD, there are really excellent people in every police department, some slackers, and a few that bring disservice to the profession. To single this group out because of this one incident looks suspicious to me and seems to only be under the microscope because of who the accused is. I think that is wrong and feel the strong opinions are unjustified; Winston looks to be the one who has been given the short straw. He will never escape this accusation and will never have a chance to be found innocent. Once he signs a large contract you can bet the Bull Gator aunt will file a civil case, which will probably be settled out of court.
“The woman who accused Winston of rape, who is an FSU student, spoke to the police, after a friend called 911, around 3:30 a.m. on the night she said she was assaulted. She had bruises, and Winston’s semen would later be found on her underwear—much later, because the police decided not to ask him for a DNA sample. Two months after the alleged assault, with barely any investigation underway, Detective Scott Angulo closed the case, citing the alleged victim’s lack of cooperation. The woman and her lawyer say she never stopped cooperating with the police and that the police didn’t inform them that the case had been closed.”
Almost as plausible as your theory is that this particular young woman knew there are systemic difficulties in proving rape and she would run into people like you if she pressed on. Which, indeed, doesn’t make her special despite her accuser, but makes her like the other women who face that same choice – get attacked and/or slut shamed by assholes if you press on or just let it go and live with it.
Perhaps I am. The link from The Senator’s post is mostly in response to this NYT’s investigation – http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0). There’s no evidence of rape (and on the other hand, no exoneration either) because local authorities failed to obtain DNA samples. They failed to get DNA samples in part because they didn’t nail down the cab driver and didn’t get video evidence from Potbellies. As for the school’s part, the hope is that they do a thorough investigation on their own and not rely on a police dept more interested in protecting the football program. Prior to this incident, Winston had already been questioned in another police matter. They could have been more proactive themselves. Instead they protected him.
Were they protecting his guilt or innocence? Or just a dream season that produced a Heisman Trophy?
I don’t know all of what was involved in their thinking either but they did get DNA evidence and did look at video tape from Potbellies. Not sure of the timing but I recall they didn’t get his specific DNA until the fall. All of the public outcry is because of who is he, this case would never have gotten another look had he not been a well-known figure months AFTER the incident. In December and January of that time JW was just another athlete playing baseball and hoping to win the starting job as QB. I doubt 5% of the students/police on campus even knew who he was, much less would have risked their jobs for him. If I were a cop, he wouldn’t gotten any special consideration, certainly not at that time. The story was confused and murky from her own standpoint and initial facts didn’t support an all-out investigation…..they still don’t.
If he looked even close to guilty, I would be at the front of the line calling this a terrible injustice for her. Instead, I feel he has been the victim of the injustice here. Rape is a serious crime, but false accusations of rape do the true victims a disservice and I feel this continual rehashing will make it more unlikely that true victims will come forward. If I am wrong about the role he played, I hope he gets speared in the crotch and can never get it up again but from what I can see he should get an apology from the girl and her aunt.
“False reports have an incredibly corrosive impact on how sexual assault accusations are policed. Police treat sexual assault accusers badly—much worse than the lawyers do—much worse than the courtroom does. Forget what you see on “Law and Order SVU,” the police end absolutely discourages victims from reporting. Why is this so? Because cops suspect just about every victim is another false accuser, because either he/she has personally dealt with such a problem, or has heard stories from his or her cop buddies to this effect (and yes, in my experience female cops can be even worse offenders). This police behavior is bad, and counterproductive—but it’s real.”
Absolutely true that nearly all rape victims are told they will be put under scrutiny both during the investigation and in the courtroom, that is simply a fact. To not inform them would be negligent. I don’t think this means they are discouraged from seeking justice, although I agree there are some police officers do that. One of the reasons to let them know this is to see if they are willing to go to court and face the accused, the prosecution has to have that commitment unless there are eye witnesses or video that would allow a successful prosecution without the strength of her testimony. You and I may feel that isn’t fair, but it is right to ne upfront with a victim. I don’t think anywhere near a majority of police officers, or prosecutors, are opposed to pursuing justice for rape victims and I think it is wrong to make such an accusation.
But you dont think it is wrong to blame rape victims.
Come on man, in no way do I have a problem supporting rape victims, I do however have an issue with those who falsely accuse innocent people. If she is indeed a victim, she deserves everyone’s support, and would certainly have mine. I see nothing to indicate that, but in the meantime he has been drug through the media in a very public way while she is granted anonymity.
You can try to turn this around all you want but there is no one person that knows me would ever accuse me of favoring coddling of criminals. I would favor castrating him, if he were guilty. Your characterization of me incorrectly makes it easier to see why you may be rushing to judgment on this. Ready, shoot, aim.
It’s always the victim’s fault because:
(a.) not enough eyewitnesses;
(b.) of what she was wearing;
(c.) of who she was under; and
(d.) she was asking for it
“On Dec. 7, 2012, an FSU student told police she had been raped. She said someone she believed to be an FSU football player befriended her at a popular Tallahassee bar, bought her a drink and invited her to leave with him and others. What happened next is unclear, but the woman says she later woke up in a bed with Winston on top of her. Winston has said the sex was consensual….
Police assigned the case to Officer Scott Angulo, who previously worked for the Seminole Boosters, a group that helps pay the salaries of FSU’s coaching staff and some of the university president’s salary.
Angulo did not attempt to interview Winston until two weeks after he was identified and never obtained his DNA. He waited two months to file the initial report and closed the case without notifying the victim. Her attorney claims the officer warned his client that she would be “raked over the coals” for pursuing charges.”
Definitely she should not have accepted a drink from a stranger. Bad on her for that. But the investigation afterwards…..shocking how that played out. I keep thinking money had to have changed hands because no cop can be that incompetent.
“No evidence of rape”
Classic non-sequitur. There was PLENTY of evidence of rape, but NOT ENOUGH to support a criminal prosecution. If there was NO evidence of a rape, then the investigation would never have happened.
But somehow Meggs’ decision that he would not be able to prove his case beyond a reasonable doubt became “no evidence” to the “boys will be boys” crowd.
I’m a father of girls too and would recommend (if your daughters go to UGA or any school for that matter) that you pay particular attention to the neighborhood where your child lives. As an Athenian, I cringe at the locales that students live in without any care for safety. Frequently I see young coeds in a minimal amount of clothing go jogging past the most derelict hobo haunts in Athens. I want to roll my window down and yell “your’e going to be mistaken for a hooker!” but they have ear buds in and are impervious to surroundings.
As to Tallahassee, I wouldn’t let any child of mine attend school there. The culture that I observed 20 years ago and confirmed by the Winston case is one of a perpetual Mardi Gras.
Good point, my daughters are still young, both under age 8, but my brother-in-law and I had a similar discussion, he’s a big FSU fan and also has young daughters. It’s not fair to blame the victim when these things happen, but I think it is very prudent to point out that there are a lot of things girls can do/don’t do to reduce the chance of being put in a similar situation. Man, I shudder whenever I think something like that could happen to one of my girls.
Again, I want to emphasize that I’m not saying I blame the victim in the Winston case or any other case for that matter, just speaking in general terms. The whole “an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure” line of thought.
Something tells me the victim and lawyer viewed this as a money making opportunity and it got out of their control. That’s not all that went on, but surely part of it.
That doesn’t seem to be what Meggs is implying.
Something tells me she was raped…
I think you have it all wrong. She appears to want justice.
Something tells me you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about
Meggs’ statement at the end implies he thinks she was raped.
Ahhh yes…spring comes and young girls minds turn to getting raped so that they can exploit the situation for person gain.
To every season, turn, turn turn…
Sadly the fact that someone is famous or rich gives them this extra excuse if they do rape in addition to all of the other reasons to attack the victim add that she is after money it worked well for Roethlisberger.
I have a solution. The next chief of police for Tallahassee:
Meggs sure isn’t laughing now..
In defense of Mac and the others who espouse the “not enough evidence” position, let me say as a lawyer that I agree with that conclusion, legally. I also believe the girl was raped. There just isn’t enough evidence to prove rape in court in large part because the TPD botched the investigation, either negligently or on purpose. The primary investigator should be fired ASAP for failure to interview the 3 players and find the cab driver the same day as the report, as well as get copies of the videos from the bar. that is just basic investigation. The victim herself cannot give enough information to support a rape conviction in this situation as her testimony is that she woke up having sex. She could have been so drunk she consented but now doesn’t remember. I don’t buy that, though. I still think the date rape drug was used by one of those guys, maybe not by Winston himself but by someone. As I understand it, that drug doesn’t make the victim totally unconscious. It makes the victim unable to resist and erases the person’s memory, at least to a point. I also have 2 daughters and things like this scare the hell out of me. Those that know me would probably say that , if it was my daughter, it should scare the hell out of the guy/guys who did it, too. But from what I saw of Winston he appears to be too stupid and entitled to understand something like that. Guys like that have to learn the hard way and, big-time athlete or no, if he doesn’t change his ways I’m betting someone will teach him the hard way sooner or later.
As the mother of two daughters I always taught them to drink from a can only they had opened and if they set it down to get a new can but even then I worried. The problem is guys who rape are often quite charming and disarming so girls don’t realize they are talking to a date rapist. Thankfully both daughters made it through college without any incidents. My youngest was at GCSU when the Roethlisberger incident happened. It was horrifying how that girl was threatened.
Absolutely right Debbie. I taught my girls to not even trust the bartenders.
Eerily reminiscent of the Natalie Holloway case in that the victim left with several men, the prime suspect and other key witnesses were largely uncooperative (perhaps even shielded?), alcohol and a date-rape drug were possible factors, and the investigation had a level of professional competence that would otherwise seem amateurish and even comical if the charges weren’t so serious. Thank goodness the endings weren’t the same this time.
Yeah, and we also now know that the prime suspect in the Holloway case has murdered another girl and thankfully got caught this time. If a guy like that gets away with it once he will do it again because he thinks he is bulletproof. I see that in Jameis’ future.
Subscribe in a reader
Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.
Join 2,290 other followers