Judging from what I’ve seen burning up the message boards and blog comment threads lately, I’d say a fairly large bloc of the fan base would say yes as an answer to that question.
Of course, half of them argue it’s because Richt is recruiting the wrong kinds of kids – despite the obvious rejoinder that players like Harvey-Clemons and Matthews were recruited by every major power in the South (and, in Matthews’ case, that may still be happening) – while the other half bitch that Richt is too tough with his discipline. Not exactly a broad consensus there.
At least there’s one thing we can all rally around – when it comes to Georgia football, Herbie can be such an ass.
Get The Picture 
I just don’t even know what to think anymore. Like you said, everybody is recruiting the same kids. And yes we do have stricter rules but dang if it doesn’t seem like we have not only more first time offender stuff (which would be explained by punishing more for first offenses), but also multiple offender stuff (not just speaking from a legal sense, but also from a “pissing your coaches off by being an idiot” sense). But it’s also entirely possible that it only seems that way to me because I follow UGA rabidly, and only pay passing attention to the day-to-day stuff at other programs.
People say there’s a problem with the culture around UGA, but certainly they discount the “Culture of Transparency” at work. Some see it as a feature, others as a bug. Just look at how we handled AJ Green’s situation – “AJ, just give the NCAA whatever they ask for” vs how Manziel’s situation was handled – everybody lawyered up, realizing that the burden of proof was on the NCAA and not on the kid. And with no power to subpoena, the NCAA was pretty powerless. We willingly handed to the power to them though.
And I’m still a little aggravated at the whole double dipping check thing. I know they said they had to report it to the police because of NCAA eligibility concerns, but I just don’t buy that. You investigate it in-house, make them pay back the money, then hand out whatever punishment internally, the same punishment they have gotten to this point. Once the money is paid back, that’s something that could be easily explained away to the NCAA, if the NCAA ever even caught wind of it. At worst it becomes a minor infraction. Unless public embarrassment was just part of the punishment you wanted them to go through, it just seems to me like this was all a lot harder than it had to be. But it goes back to that “Culture of Transparency”. Now if one of the banks had turned the kids in, I understand that the police would likely have to be involved. But it was discovered in house, and could have been dealt with in house, and dealt with severely, without yet another public black eye to the program.
I just think it’s a combination of things. The article by Barrett Sallee about Richt being the new moral compass of college football shows that at least some of the media are starting to grasp that there’s more to it than just “UGA has a bunch of thugs and they don’t respect Richt”. But there are also things the program could do to manage the public image a little better, without having to be sleazy.
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” Some see it as a feature, others as a bug. Just look at how we handled AJ Green’s situation – “AJ, just give the NCAA whatever they ask for” vs how Manziel’s situation was handled – everybody lawyered up, realizing that the burden of proof was on the NCAA and not on the kid. And with no power to subpoena, the NCAA was pretty powerless. We willingly handed to the power to them though.”
I am not attorney. I occasionally play one until my attorney reminds me that he was the one that attended law school. Sometimes not very cordially. I believe it has to do with NCAA regs. They can’t make you give up your bank records but they can make you ineligible to play for not “cooperating”. AJ deposited a check. Manziel was a cash only kinda guy and it’s probably in an account under another name or under his mattress. When the sh*t got real with the NCAA and Jarvis Jones’ eligibility, Georgia responded with a bigger gun. And it paid off.
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Was also thinking we didn’t have a discipline problem as much as a transparency problem. No way I’m buying that if everybody is recruiting the same kids, that they only find trouble in Athens. I think other schools tend to contain infractions internally (sans major infraction etc) and we never know of it. That said, I do wonder though, if some programs instill a little more fear of God into their players too.
I’m with you on preferring internal discipline – game time is unfortunately not a tremendous motivator for some of these guys. Physical punishment (running etc) is a universal language that everybody understands. As for check-gate though, I think the Senator mentioned in his blog piece that when UGA reported it, they had to have thought someone was stealing the players checks – no way they would be that stupid to do it themselves… Good post.
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It’s not so much that the players don’t respect Richt–I think they do. It’s that they don’t FEAR Richt.
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Exactly, Mayor. Do you remember that ESPN special they had a few years back about Sabin / Alabama? He had that push button door closer on his desk. He even admitted that when he had a player in his office and pushed it, their anxiety ramped up a bit…
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Absolute BS position, imo. You either cover it up, or you man-up. Your desire to support the “other way” is your right but the way you express it is crap. Just say you wish we put our head in the sand and sold out like the others. There are plenty of other programs who do it your way, if that fits your standards, go for it. But the majority of UGA adult fans do not want the “win at all costs” approach.
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I agree that UGA’s discipline is simply more harsh than other schools. We ran off JHC for multiple failed drug tests. At LSU or USC, he wouldn’t have even missed any playing time. I don’t know about Matthews. He committed a misdemeanor, which should carry some punishment. But it appears that we ran him off because of multiple, minor issues like disrupting class. I would expect that a kid at another school would be running for issues like that.
I know that the coaches, and many fans here, believe that a 2-star recruit who is in bed by 8pm studying the playbook is better than a 5-star recruit who dabbles in weed or tries to scam a little extra spending money from the program. But I’m not convinced. Recruiting rankings correlate with wins and losses. It seems a shame that Richt is good at bringing star recruits in, only to kick many of them out.
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Disturbing a class and disrespecting a professor is not minor. It shows lack of character. He is gone because he thought he was above the rules.
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It is minor. He committed no crime. He disrupted a crip course on the final day of classes. Because of that, some of the class might never find out if Rapunzel gets out of her tower. Oh well.
Look, if your position is that it’s better to lose with 2-star kids of sterling character than it is to win with 4-star kids who make mistakes, then I respect that. I just don’t necessarily agree. I hope there’s a balance that Richt can find where major mistakes are punished and minor mistakes are forgiven. Because 4-star kids who never make mistakes are pretty darned rare.
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We have a PR problem, nothing more.
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Agreed. The same year that we have a guy getting a violation on a moped, other schools have guys discharging weapons in public. But UGA has all the thugs and the discipline problem.
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For the right price B ² may be available to correct that problem
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I think that’s true. Herbstreit is a good example. From afar off, it looks like Richt has no control (though I do believe there was a time, around 2007-09, when he had lost control of the situation), and discipline is lax, because we start every year with suspensions.
But that’s not true. The truth is Mark Richt isn’t soft on discipline at all. Nor is he too strict. He’s been very consistent, balanced, and IMO, just, in his handling of these issues.
Of course, it depends on what you mean by discipline. I’m talking off-the-field here. On-the-field (which means all football stuff) there’s been a constant discipline problem for 9 years. And we may not be out of it yet.
That’s one the things that’s happening now, that Pruitt and Richt are trying to change.
~~~
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They can’t make you give up your bank records but they can make you ineligible to play for not “cooperating”.
Is that true? I was under the impression that they can ask you for your bank records (or whatever else), but you can also say “no”, and there’s not much they can do about it. If I’m wrong though, I stand corrected. I still think that had there been an attorney involved on AJ’s side, the outcome would have been quite different.
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oops, supposed to be a reply to AHD above.
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That’s my understanding. There are plenty of legal eagles that post here. One will be along in a minute to fill us in.
😉
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Yes, it is. There’s not much they can do about it as far as making you show them the records. They do not have to allow you to play. Supposedly the way Manziel got around it was a) must pay cash, and b) payment goes to his boy, and not him. It’s a little harder for the NCAA to say show me some random dude’s bank records or your ineligible, not that I wouldn’t put it past them to try that stunt though.
But countless NCAA investigations pre- and post AJ Green, among others at UGA, tends to show other schools have figured out a less punishing course of action.
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you’re, not your.
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Thanks, I was wrong on my thought process there then.
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That’s half of it. You left out the part where the NCAA steps on it’s dick, or to be more accurate, gets tits caught in the wringer.
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I am convinced that less happens here than in any other SEC college town, it just doesn’t get covered up. Jimmy Williamson and his charges have a hardon for college students, and especially athletes. You can’t tell me you don’t believe that in Tuscaloosa or Gainesville or Auburn or Columbia that the first call an officer makes when he stops a football player is to the head coach.
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Actually, in Gainesville I think the police commissioner just calls Huntley Johnson on the bat-phone.
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“If you think we can help, call us.” But not on the Bat Phone®™© ℠
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Again though, I think that goes back to the “Culture of Transparency”. Our athletic department seems to go out of its way to not appear to be cozy with local police in any way, and I think that creates some friction there. I’m in Greenville SC, and the local sports talk radio station up here had a guy call in a couple of months ago who used to be an officer in Athens – I can’t remember now whether he was ACC or University police. But he said when he worked there, about 10 years ago, the local police had reached out to the athletic dept multiple times to try to start working together in a more collaborative way, and they were rebuffed each time, so the police just decided “screw ’em”, and relations have been tense ever since.
Now I wouldn’t swear that his version is 100% accurate, but I’m guessing there’s at least some kernels of truth in his story. The University was so scared of appearing to be in bed with police, trying to be transparent, that they just made the situation harder on everyone.
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Just another reason to clean out that whole rats’ nest of hangers-on in B-M.
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I think that’s it, mwo.
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I think so. Our kids are as good as any, on the whole, and better than most.
~~~
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who said….”After Jan Kemp, all of our warts are exposed.” ?
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Who is Compound W Freeze Off®?
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Yes. We most certainly have a discipline policy problem.
Zero tolerance policies + automatic first time suspensions + full media transparency = THUGA.
We are in the news every week with disciplinary issues. It’s amazing we can recruit at all.
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I absolutely agree we have a policy problem. We also have a newspaper that clearly thinks they may one day win a Pulitzer (no way, a Peabody) for sports journalism by blowing every issue at Georgia out of proportion. We have a university PD of Barney Fifes looking for a scalp and a local PD with a lousy relationship with the university. We have a subset of knuckleheads that do dumb things sometimes (Checkgate was the dumbest thing that members of our football team have been involved in).
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Georgia’s problem is that it thinks that if it keeps slamming it’s dick in the the door and calling it the “Georiga Way” that the dick will get stronger.
The door always wins.
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+1 LOL.
Then Georgia goes to the local and national media to show off its gnarled-up dick for everyone to laugh at, adding insult to self-inflicted injury.
Really smart policy, guys.
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Now that gave me a good chuckle this morning. As they say, its funny cuz its true.
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Answer to your question. Yes. Does it stem from Athletic Department and coaches. Yes. Does it stem from the Athletic Board and Regents. Yes. Does it stem from the University President and faculty. Yes.
It has been a long running issue and a deep seated culture within the University.
Short of ordering up crab legs and a seafood buffet for all of them one night a week, preferably Saturday night [great to be a Georgia Bulldog that night], what do you think would be ways to rectify this problem and possible misconception.
I suggest one. If you sign and you screw up on discipline, guess what the University will not release you from your scholarship and letter of intent to go to another D1 program.
Second. Do not sit them out of any game. I like corporate punishment. But there are better ways than taking away from players, fans, and supporters.
Third. Remind the local police department it cuts both ways. Mostly it could cut your pay and retirement benefits. In other words, get with the program.
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Crab legs and buffet? Is the University forcing Charlie Williams’ Pinecrest Lodge to reopen for business, cause that’d be super.
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“I like corporate punishment.”
Who doesn’t?
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I agree that less suspensions, but significant internal discipline is the way to go. The drug policy isn’t going to change, but as much as possible, handle it internally and make their lives miserable for a good month or so. I know the players are competitive, but nobody dreads sitting out a game. We need punishments that the players truly dread, like when they see another guy going through it, all they can think to themselves is “Man, I never want to have to do all that”. I’d guess that’s what DeLoach, Taylor, etc have been being put through, and I hope it serves as a great deterrent.
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“We need punishments that the players truly dread,”
Put Pruitt in charge of it because so far he seems to be pretty good with Come to Jesus meetings
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I remember somebody posting a while back something about when BVG and Callaway were coaching, they were the kind of coaches the players didn’t even want to accidentally end up on the same elevator with them, there was a real fear there. It does sound like Pruitt might have some of that in him.
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I remember the same sort of disciplinarian approach attributed by some to Grantham. It’s just wishful thinking until you see it happen.
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True, and I don’t subscribe to the theory that you have to be a jerk to be a disciplinarian either. No approach works every time. But having a mix of styles on the coaching staff is a good thing.
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I think he does. I think he was a hardass even before Saban. Of course, I thought Todd was going to be awesome too. That condition was later diagnosed as too much Flavr-Aid consumption but I’m back on the sauce now full speed ahead.
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I like you’re suggestion that punishment not include sitting out games, but what would suffice? If there is a workable answer there, it will solve a huge problem….But the “crime” would still be blown out of proportion by the Fish Wrapper, with the added information that the guilty player “will not miss any playing time”, which means UGA will still get a black eye.
This may seem a stretch..but at least some of the media hounding of UGA stems originally from certain GT supporters jealousy and influence through the AJC. It was originally a tool of revenge and has now become the normal and expected function of that once decent paper.
It is sad that much of the sports media has sold out to the personal agendas of the writers, reporters and editors.
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Ug, we need to end the practice of sitting out players for what are really petty offenses. Smoking dope, drinking alcohol, etc. are all things that need to be handled internally with no publicity and just by running the stadium steps or other “corporate” (to use Will Trane’s description) punishment. When you suspend quality players from participation in the game you don’t really punish the player as much as you punish the team, the student body, the fans and the school when the team ends up losing the game. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Make the kid who breaks the rules run until his tongue is hanging out. But don’t hold him out of games. That’s the reason he’s there in the first place–to play for the school. If he’s not playing he’s not earning his scholarship.
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“If he’s not playing he’s not earning his scholarship.”
Release the Kraken!
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Smoking great ganja, underage drinking: two offenses the athletes agreed not to do when accepting a scholarship. When the NCAA tests them and finds a positive, what then? “No frigging drugs” is their rule to keep a level playing field. We should uproariously complain if they don’t apply the rules evenly, not complain about Richt. Draconian testing rules should be updated.
Like many of you,I think that society and the NCAA should reevaluate ganja in light of modern information and decriminalize it from it’s 1930s social, political and religious taint as “Devil Weed”. Individual schools can handle it according to their culture. Don’t fall over, but I would embrace testing after games to ensure no one is play’n and use’n. The outcome would rest on how much they have in their system and not rest on traces from exposure the week/night before the game.
Drugs are only a small part of discipline problems, but it could be handled such that it doesn’t impact us harder than anyone else and that lies on the back of the NCAA.
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OOps! Left out an “a”.
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If I could get credentials I would go the SEC media days and ask Slive why there is not a uniform drug testing / punishment policy for the conference. I would like to watch him spin and squirm.
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Except that you cant and he wouldnt.
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Perhaps some here have forgotten about tOSU and where coverup leads. Or stand around nervously like Auburn, waiting for the next shoe (that too many at Aub know about now and someone will squeel if they don’t get paid) to fall. Personally, this high ground just suits me fine.
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I’m not saying turn shady on everything. It’s like oversigning…….the perfect thing to do is to never oversign. However, if you oversign by 2 or 3……..as long as at least 2 or 3 guys are aware up front that historically, we’ve always had at least that much attrition, but there’s always that small chance that you could have to take a grayshirt…….as long as that is stated up front, I don’t feel you are compromising any sort of morals or ethics.
Same thing with the transparency issue. There’s such a wide gulf between where we are and where some other programs are. There are ways to still handle things ethically without putting a big billboard up on 316 letting the whole world know what’s going on. I’m all for doing things ethically, but I like common sense too. 🙂
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We invite them to walk on and I will venture to say greyshirt policy is a wash when compared to walk-ons.
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tOSU covered up NCAA infractions. Covering up UGA infractions would hardly draw the ire of the NCAA.
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Touche’.
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Exactly, Cojones. And I’d love to see UGA seize the initiative and promote itself as “The most accountable program in the NCAA” or “where accountability isn’t just a concept” or something like that. Corny, sure, but with the right wording and spin this thing could be turned around to actually proclaim what’s positive about the actual application of discipline.
Your comments about the scandle at Auburn are intriguing. Elaborate if you can. I’d love to see that scruple less gang face justice.
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Nebraska’s already got, “Where Corn®™© ℠ is not just a concept, it’s what for dinner!”
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UGA doesn’t know what accountability means.
If it did, you wouldn’t hear the same “this is the year we will have accountability” stories every off-season.
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No more than the explanation of why one of our past coaches was aka “the bag man” when he first worked for Auburn. The statement comes more from an old fart’s admonition that, “With all this Pomme de Rue, there has to be a pony here somewhere” and it requires too many in on the deed to make it appear that it walked in alone and put itself under the Tree.
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“The most accountable program in the NCAA where accountability isn’t just a concept”
I like this. I think I’ll use it.
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What you said, man.
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It IS nice not to have to worry about shady dealings, breaking the rules, coverups, and all that goes with that stuff. No question about it. And for that, I’m grateful.
~~~
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Has anyone considered that, if Richt doesn’t punish them or cut them loose, the student Council can do it for him? They have the last word as to whether certain unworthy individuals can continue at our University.
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Pedro, Pedro, Pedro
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Richt deferring to the UGA student judiciary and surrendering what little disciplinary authority he still has left?
Shhhh. UGA might take you up on that idea!
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When Student Admissions has a council to wrongly not accept a player because a girl sucked his dick when he was a Jr in HS(remember Grant to Ark on Richt’s recommendation?) , it’s not an “idea”.
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Will outside nsfw non-lawyers be available for Lord of the Flies dystopia hearings?
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DIF, I love it! Are you sure that you don’t partake just a little bit?
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Hell DIF wouldn’t even get off the boat in Okinawa! Ask him where Koza is?
😉
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Worst liberty ever! Other than Diego Garcia of course where there were no women at all.
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History always remembers better than it lived. Koza was kinda dangerous.
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Olangapo was the best ever…if you lived through it.
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Somebody
http://www.subicbaypi.com/town_photo_girls.htm
had to service the 7th Fleet
http://www.subicbaypi.com/sub_ships016.htm
and they barely had enough bars to do it
http://www.subicbaypi.com/subic_barlist_olongapo.htm
http://www.subicbaypi.com/
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Knew a classmate who bragged how she made the trip to Diego Garcia when she was in the AF. It wasn’t a tour of duty either. You might have unseen her, but she would have been the one wearing the paper bag with eye holes that later were changed to single-hole bags until she almost had her eye poked out. When she took the bag off, all the clocks stopped, so they went back to the two-holer.
She said that she had a great time. You may have run into her (or walked). Her nickname was “The Camel” (the two-hump variety), “the ship of the desert”, not because she was unattractive, but possibly because she had lots of semen in her.
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OOps! Left out an “a”.
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Pacino’s performance in Scent of a Woman is still the all-time best by an actor, imo. You just reminded me, this is the perfect time of the year to go back and watch my favorite “oldies” again. I will still have time for the annual Phil Steele “CFB Bible” magazine before August is over.
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LULZ…Pacino’s performance in SOAW is considered by most to be one of his worst performances. That movie has not aged well and Denzel should have won the Oscar his performance in Malcolm X.
It wasnt even Pacino’s best, much less the best by any actor. Good grief. Did you really say that?
It is basically like saying that the 2013 Dawg Defense was the best defense in the history of football, especially on 3rd down.
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I thought it was one of Alpa Chino’s best. Invective and bimbae do it for me…
“Besides, Mr. Pacino has a way of explosively dispelling any doubt. From the moment he first appears, sitting in a darkened room blasting insults at the hapless Charlie, he seems to take up all of the story’s dramatic space. Frank’s voice, the only weapon he has left, becomes so formidable that even watching him speak becomes an adventure. Bellowing invective, letting his body rise and swell with each new pronouncement, Frank intones like a Southern radio announcer as he tests Charlie’s mettle. “Don’t shrug, you imbecile, I’m blind,” he barks, using his disability to make Charlie even more uncomfortable. “Save your body language for the bimbae.”
http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9E0CEEDD1038F930A15751C1A964958260
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I feel even better about my feelings about the movie now knowing that you differ. If there is a bigger ass-clown among the commenters than you since Thomas Brown left the building, I don’t recall them. Clueless doesn’t do you justice (not that you would understand that concept either. But trigga needs understanding these days so carry on.)
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We not going back to pre Adams. Can’t un-ring that bell. Problem seems to be that unworthy individuals can continue elsewhere. We have a frisky qb that ended up starting at LSU. A sticky finger DB that ended up in a NC game. We have three DB that landed at Louisville playing for their ole coach. My thoughts are: Soooo you got kicked off the team. Mehe. If you were at OSU you could play in your bowl and take your punishment the following season…unless you turned pro of course. Yeah. The heavy handedness had its start in 2006 not when CMR arrived. Contrary to popular belief. http://www.dawgsonline.com/2012/04/04/how-we-got-here-the-origins-of-georgias-tough-drug-policy/
Unless someone like Bluto or Mr. Sanchez tells me otherwise. Don’t put the drug rules at CMR’s feet.
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Absolutely right AHD. The policy came directly from Adams. We have some on this blog engaging in revisionist history, saying that “preacher” Mark Richt was/is behind that policy. But that isn’t true. The policy was imposed on him and everyone else by Adams. Think about that for a second. Adams has no background in athletics. What are we doing allowing someone who has never worn a jock strap, much less supervised those who do, set disciplinary policy for athletes? Mike Adams was/is a POS that got his job through politics and was not even an educator. He messed up so many things during his tenure in Athens that a good argument could be made that he did it on purpose to get back at all the Georgia people who hated him.
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If you referring to me, that is both a lie, and a cheap shot.
Then why has the drug ‘policy’, i.e., the punishment and the way Richt has handled it, been the same since 2001? When Adams didn’t institute the policy until 2006? Would you say that is just a coincidence?
IDK the details of what went down in 2006 and said I didn’t from the beginning. I just remember that the weed/alcohol policy didn’t change from the way I remember Richt handling it when he arrived in 2001.
I never said definitely that Richt was behind the 2006 policy. Don’t think I said he was behind it at all. Just that I suspect they consulted him and listened, that maybe he had input. It has his fingerprints all over it, so that is a reasonable suspicion. IDK for certain and never said I did. But so far, nobody has been able to answer the questions above.
Can you? I don’t mean to get in the way of Adams bashing, that’s not the intent at all. And there are elements of it I don’t even know about, I’m sure. Never claimed expertise with it. But as relates to the football team, I haven’t seen any difference, or at least don’t remember any. That’s why I asked in the first place.
Richt has been the same, best I can tell. And AFAIK, stands behind the policies.
~~~
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FWIW I wasn’t talking about you, Ivey. But see the link in AHD’s post above mine for a detailed account of the facts behind this that you say you are searching for. 🙂
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In
Yikes. Quiet all of the sudden Mayor. IDK. Y.
Sometimes when you IDK it’s best to hush and QMSU. (Quit making shit up) 😉 yeah AND I am looking at you Ivey. FWIW.
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Curious that Buto and Mr. Sanchez were quiet.
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I’m beginning to understand what I’m dealing with. Whatever.
~~~
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Then I apologize, Mayor.
That’s the same article I referred to earlier, which is where I got the 2006 date, since I didn’t remember exactly when Adams put the policy in. I’m saying Richt’s drug/alcohol policy was virtually the same from 2001-2006, the way I remember it. And so far I’ve seen no evidence to the contrary.
The article, which I assume is accurate, doesn’t address that.
~~~
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Off subject…but how in the world is Matson 8th rated in SEC QBs? I get the first 3, but you’re telling me Driskel, Coker (who’s not played a flipping game) and Dylan Thompson (who had to be bailed out by a gimpy Shaw at Mizzou) are better?
http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/84019/sec-position-rankings-quarterbacks-6
Yes I know it’s for website hits 😉
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If you think The Driskeling is bad now, wait until next year when Mr. Roper gets ahold of this
http://www.gatorsports.com/article/20140608/ARTICLES/140609708/1189?Title=Elite-11-QB-invitee-commits-to-UF
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Georgia’s disciplinary standards are too high for the SEC. We need to go over and win big in the ACC or Big Ten
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I want SEC Titles, running our program with the highest standards, and doing it exactly they way we’re doing it. I know it can be done, and done consistently (be in the thick of it every year, and win our share + some).
Do that, and the National Titles will come as well. And Georgia will be hailed as a model program, how to win and do it right.
That’s what I want.
~~~
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I’ll have whatever you’re drinking. With Auburn & Alabama cheating their way to the top, it’s almost impossible.
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Right now it’s a nice, smooth, brandy. But I’m not really under its influence. 🙂
I know what you’re saying, and it does make it tougher for us and anybody else who does it right.
But I’m certain it can happen. I’ve always been certain of it. I’ve spent the last 5 or 6 years writing about what it will take, but haven’t talked about it in realistic terms much.
The reason I talk about it now is because I can see the light. There’s still a long way to go, we’re just starting, but I can see it. It’s inevitable, IMHO, if we stay on this track and don’t falter or compromise anything, in terms of expectation of excellence and DEMANDING that things be done right, especially the football stuff.
~~~
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