Is the McElwain hiring a cautionary tale for Georgia?

From MrSEC:

This time around the Gators were handicapped a tad by the $8 million in buyouts — that’s the maximum anyway — they’re going to pay Muschamp and his crew over the next few years in buyout money.  Still, they’ve handed out an additional $5 million buyout to free McElwain from CSU.  That’s a lot of money at one time.  But if Foley could have landed a bigger fish the University of Florida would have been capable of finding the necessary money to hire him.

Whatever the reason for it, Florida has once again hired someone who’s a bit of a wild card.  Gator fans will talk themselves into believing in McElwain — as all fans do in the post-hire afterglow — but would any of them bet their homes on the three-year vet from Colorado State being theanswer in Gainesville?  Probably not.

While the UF football program has been a dominant force for much of the past 25 years, the Gators have still had their share of struggles.  Struggles which many ignore as they stare lustily at the school’s three national championship trophies from 1996, 2006 and 2008.  Did you know that Florida has had seven five-loss seasons in the last 13 years?  That’s hardly the level of success Florida fans demand and it explains why Foley is now hiring his fourth football coach since 2002.  It also suggests that McElwain is no sure thing.

Now I can’t say I agree with Pennington’s premise in its entirety, because every hiring market is a unique animal.  But I do think this year’s Florida coaching search illustrates a trend that all you armchair ADs who think you could do Greg McGarity’s job standing on your head because “man, Georgia is one of the top coaching jobs in the country!” ignore at your convenience.  It’s a trend that at its core stems from all the money big time college athletics is awash in these days.  The reality is that at a major program, a coaching transition rarely comes cheaply.  You start by having to payoff the guaranteed contracts of the men you let go.  (In Foley’s case, $8 million.)  And don’t pretend you can pinch pennies by simply letting a coaching staff play out their contracts in their entirety – you do that and you kill your program’s recruiting over at least the last two years of the old regime.

And then you have to go out and spend major bucks on the next guy.  And that doesn’t just mean his salary.  It also means the salaries for his assistants.  And the money to be outlaid for facilities and support staff.  (Think you can keep putting off the inevitable with the IPF?  Guess again.)

And what kind of head coaching background are you going to chase?  Any way you go comes with its set of risks and rewards.

  • Existing head coach at P5 conference school or NFL.  The least risky path will also be the most expensive.  You want a hot name (you’re Georgia, remember)?  Well, it’s gonna cost you.  A lot.  For example, Gary Patterson isn’t a mid-majors dude anymore.  He’s at a Big 12 program vying for a spot in the national playoffs.  TCU is going to fight you tooth and nail, because everybody’s got money now. (To Foley’s regret, Hugh Freeze, by all reports, will make $4 million a year at Ole Miss now.) Can you outbid?  Sure, anything’s possible.  But you’d best be prepared going in to make him at least the second-highest paid head coach in the conference (which means he’ll be the second highest paid head coach in all of college football).  And definitely up the salary pool for his assistants.  And spend a shitload of money on whatever infrastructure upgrades he demands.  Your total financial commitment could easily hit $50-60 million.  Does that sound like the Butts-Mehre Way?  And that’s just the money. Imagine what the discussion over local policing and school punishment policy is going to sound like.  It’s so easy, right?
  • Existing head coach at lower level school.  The path Foley took cost him a lot of money to replace one branch of the Saban coaching tree with another.  It may not be a bad hire, but it certainly lacks the sexiness of other recent hot mid-majors hires like Saban, Petrino and Petersen.  And why not?  Nobody in this year’s pool has a similar resume.  So in comparison, you overpay for a McElwain or bet on the come with an early riser like Memphis’ Justin Fuente and hope for the best.  But how easy a sell will that be for your fan base?  I guarantee you Richt’s resume is going to look better to many folks in the immediate term.
  • Hot assistant coaches.  A riskier choice – just ask Jeremy Foley – but one that might save you a few bucks if you pick someone who lacks the leverage of a big time head coaching name.  The catch is the ones you’re most likely to take a run at are people like Kirby Smart, established brands at big time programs, who really aren’t going to come cheaper than what McElwain came to Florida for.  And the Kirby’s of the world are going to have more leverage than you think, because they’re being paid quite handsomely in their current position without all the pressure.

Pennington concludes by saying, “It’s just not easy to pry a proven winner from a strong football school.”  So tell me how you’d go about your business making the change.

193 Comments

Filed under Georgia Football

193 responses to “Is the McElwain hiring a cautionary tale for Georgia?

  1. Jim

    “as they stare lustily at the school’s three national championship trophies from 1996, 2006 and 2008. Did you know that Florida has had seven five-loss seasons in the last 13 years?”

    It may or may not be a cautionary tale but I think the quote above sums it up nicely.

    Florida seems to have chosen volatility at the expense of consistency. We’ve chosen the opposite.

    We’ve got tremendous consistency with richt (both in the good and bad sense) and everyone is happy we have had fewer 5 loss seasons. But we also haven’t reached the pinnacle either.

    Would I trade a few more five loss seasons for a couple national championships? Absolutely you better believe I would

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    • Gaskilldawg

      The trade of a few more five loss seasons really is a trade of what we can conteil, that is, our performance on the field, for good breaks in games we in which we do not participate.

      UF’s 2006 BCS championship, for example. It was not in the BCS top two until a mediocre UCLA team blocked an extra point to beat USC, moving UF into the top two in the final BCS ranking. Had a game 2,000 miles away over which Urban Meyer had no input gone as predicted then USC would have been 2006 BCS Champs and Gators would be reduced to crying, “BCS Sux!”

      Likewise 2008. After UF lost a home to a pretty good Miss team UF had to count on other teams playing hundreds of miles away to lose
      Meyer, through no input of his own, benefitted from higher ranked teams being upset.

      So, you would give away a few 5 loss seasons for the hopes that a mediocre team upsets a top 3 team in a game 2,000 miles away. If that is your position I respect that. However, it is not mine.

      Richt was Meyer without the good fortune in 2002. OSU and Miami were both undefeated . I forget now who it was who had a lead on OSU in the last minute of the game when OSU completed a long 4th down pass to set up the last second winning TD. Had an USC kick been good and a Big Team DB made a play we would be bragginfg on Richt having a Natty and also being far more consistent than UF.

      Under the new set-up a team can be 5th and win a nc. Richt has been no lower than 4th after the SEC CG in 2002, 2007 and 2012. A poster on this blog asked a couple of weeks ago if anyone really thought Richt could produce a team that made the playoffs. My response was that he already has finished in the top four more than once, so, yes.

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      • Gaskilldawg

        Gosh, all kinds of typos. I tried to type, “control ” and it came out “conteil.” I also meant to type that a team has to finish in the top 4 to make the playoff and my finger hit that little “5” button. I meant to say a team can be 4th and win a title. Sorry

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        • Scorpio Jones, III

          Gaskill I would submit that every national champion has been the recipient of a bit of Old Lady Luck at some point in the season. Remember, if Tech had not tied Notre Fucking Dame the day we had our Miracle on Duval Street, Georgia might very well have not been in the Sugar Bowl that year.

          I seriously doubt having a money bowl playoff is going to eliminate mere happenstance from the equation.

          Or the result of lapses in concentration among kids on the field.

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          • GaskillDawg

            Agree.

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            • Dawgoholic

              How in the world would Notre Dame being in the Sugar Bowl in 1980 have kept UGA out? UGA played ND in the Sugar Bowl. I don’t know how Tech tying Notre Dame affected UGA at all in the long run.

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              • Of course, it didn’t. Although there are many examples of luck playing a factor in getting to a national championship game, this example (Georgia Tech tying Notre Dame in 1980) sure as hell isn’t one–for a variety of different reasons. Nevertheless, this fiction keeps on being repeated by a few posters….or perhaps it’s one poster repeatedly.

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      • Well said with historical facts to back it up. We’ve truly never caught a break while many others have.

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      • DawgFaithful

        So Florida won 3 NT’s because they were lucky and Georgia hasn’t won one in 30 years because we’re unlucky?

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        • Rob G

          pretty much

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          • DawgFaithful

            So Florida didn’t do anything right. They just got lucky and backed ass backwards into 3 national titles? Georgia’s program has been in just as good a shape as Florida’s. We’re just the unluckiest team in the land?

            Do you know how ludicrous that sounds? Georgia has been unlucky at times but let’s give Florida a little credit. You might get lucky once but not 3 times. And even if you get lucky and play in the big game, you still have to win the thing. Florida was LOADED with NFL talent those 3 years. They won the games they were supposed to win. They caught wide open TD passes when the game was there for the taking unlike Terrance Edwards. They didn’t give games away those years like Georgia has been doing. They never just completely failed to show up for games in those 3 years. Georgia lays an egg or 2 every year. We’d be playing today if we could actually finish the drill like the mantra says.

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            • Yep. It’s particularly foolish to just assume that we’d actually win those one or two championship games that we didn’t even get to (2002, 2007, 2012), when winning one big game every three/four years seems like an incredible feat for Georgia teams.

              Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

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        • GaskillDawg

          No, silly. That is not the point. Florida gets credit for putting itself in position where an UCLA upset against USC enabled it to go to the last opening in the playoff.

          UGA gets credit in 2002 for putting itself in the position where an upset of OSU would have put UGA in the last spot. Luck did not get UF to be a contender in 2006. Luck did not get UGA to status as a contender in 2002.

          By the same token, Tubberville put together a better team in 2004 than Meyer did i 2006 or 2008. Just as happened with UGA in 2002, Tubberville had no control over whether USC or Oklahoma lost.
          Auburn gets credit for its 2004 record.

          All coaches can do its put teams in a position where they can capitalize on the breaks.

          By the way, Richt has nothing to do with the UGA teams from 1981 through 2000. His shitty coaching, as described by some, did not cost us a NC during those years so don’t throw the at Richt.

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      • Charlottedawg

        I hate this meme that Richt is just “unlucky”, he’s not. Meyer had 3 one loss seasons, Richt has one. Also Meyer rarely lost against the sec east, we lose at least one sec east game each year. Meyer also had several top 5 recruiting classes Richt usually doesn’t. That is the difference between being great and simply being good, the latter is what we are. We’re not “unlucky”, we lose games to division opponents which prevents us from controlling our destiny which many times blocks our path to the sec championship game which excludes us from bigger prizes. That’s why Florida has national championships and we don’t, luck isn’t the reason.

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        • Debby Balcer

          Meyer left his program in a dumpster fire and allowed criminals to flourish. No thanks.

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        • Cojones

          How about we substitute “Snakebit!” . “Unlucky” is such a dolorous word and unfit for the actions that occurred; those were being bitten by a SC rattler, a swamp moccasin and a spreading adder that thought it was a football team.

          If that ain’t “Snakebit”, I don’t know what is.

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        • GaskillDawg

          My point is not that Richt is “unlucky,” it is that he has put UGA in the same position in 2002 as Meyer put UF in in 2006. Meyer deserves credit for putting UF in position where a USC upset could put them in the BCS CG game. I belive Richt likewise deserves credit for putting UGA in the same place; where an upset of number 2 puts him in the BCS GC.
          Shit, Richt isn’t unlucky. He is doing the job he loves and is paid over $3Mill a year for it. I am just saying focus on his accomplishments in 2002 versus Meyer’s accomplishments in 2006. Each could have won 14 games. Neither did. Each did the next best; each won 13 and won the SEC championship. That makes Meyer a great coach and Richt a slacker?

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          • Russ

            We were in that position (to move up into the top 2 after upsets happened above us) in 2007, but the Herbstreit doctrine was introduced wherein no team can play for the BCS if they didn’t win their conference. That same doctrine was abandoned in 2011 for Alabama.

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      • Q

        Meyer owned Richt

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    • Biggus Rickus

      Florida had volatility thrust upon them. Meyer was on a pretty incredible run before his breakdown.

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    • Sparrow

      I think you hit the nail on the head, but your last comment has me thinking… You would trade 5 loss season for nattys, but why exactly? What do we get with a national championship that would be worth losing five games for?

      There is a variety of reasons why I get frustrated with our team and some of those reasons have to do with achievement. When we see the talent and potential of a team like we had this year fail to win in Jacksonville, I want to pull my hair out. But, hypothetically, if we had won in Columbia, Jacksonville, and in Athens against tech, won the SEC, and title the first year of the playoffs, would you really be satisfied next year with a slightly above average team that dropped games to USC, Bama, UT, UF, and Auburn? I feel like most of us (myself included) would be livid.

      I see our consistency and our 9-10 win averages and my frustration is in not being able to hit that final gear to gain the additional win necessary to push us into the next level. It might just be a philosophical difference, but I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater for the sake of a title.

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      • Gaskilldawg

        I agree. I enjoyed college football before there was a BCS to settle it on the field. Hell, I enjoyed it just as much back when the final polls were before the bowl games.

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      • Jim

        Thanks for making my point. We’ve chosen this path based on keeping Richt as our head coach. Agree with the path or not, at least we agree on where we stand as a program. Consistently 2nd tier

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        • Sparrow

          Yeah, but you didn’t answer my question. What do you get out of a natty if it comes with regularly intermittent 5 loss seasons?

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          • GaskillDawg

            What has Miami gotten out of its 2000 title? I am not so much looking at what it has in 2014 out of it, but what did it mean to Miami in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008?

            That seems consistent with your point, Sparrow.

            For that matter, Tennessee did not get a lot out of its 1998 BCS when 2002 rolld around.

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          • j4k372

            A national title. The biggest prize in the game instead of 9-3, 8-4 seasons with trips to Orlando and Tampa for bowl games that don’t matter. Still unable to come close to dominating a WEAK Eastern division.

            Is having a five loss season any worse than a three loss season? Really? Does it matter if we are unranked or ranked 12th or 19th or 25th at the end of the season?

            If we do not win the SEC East next year and we lose to the Nerds again, then the heat will be turned up. CMR is lucky that the Eastern division is a dumpster fire. Mizzou has waltzed in and won 2 out of 3 years.

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            • GaskillDawg

              Yes, a 5 loss season is worse than a 3 loss season, to me.

              I understand a lot of folks share your point of view. A few weeks ago the morning drive time host of NBC sports radio said that now being 4 is just as good as being 1 and being 5 is no different than being 125. He would agree with you.

              My attitude is different.

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          • Jim

            Uh, a natty? What do we get this year that we wouldn’t get if we’d lost 5 games? A different shitty bowl?

            By your logic you don’t want a natty for fear of losing 5 games in some other season. Right, that makes sense

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            • Sparrow

              I’m genuinely confused why you are so offended by my question…

              FWIW, it’s not my “logic”, it’s my stated message. I think the point I’m pondering is that the hard times of being a fan (for me) come with losses and I am not sure that the pleasure I would derive from a national championship would offset the anguish of 10 losses in two seasons. If you can help me understand how that trade-off works for you, I’d appreciate it.

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        • Cojones

          Please name the teams that you think are 1st “tier” so that we may compare our poor old wornout institute’s unwashed fb program. Maybe we would like to see your judgement values in action by your selection(s).

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        • Ah

          Consistently second tier? Yes, but in an environment where there is no consistent 1st tier.

          Where is Miami? First tier or second? Texas? Have Florida St. and Auburn been consistently 1st tier for 14 years ? USC? Oklahoma?

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      • But, hypothetically, if we had won in Columbia, Jacksonville, and in Athens against tech, won the SEC, and title the first year of the playoffs, would you really be satisfied next year with a slightly above average team that dropped games to USC, Bama, UT, UF, and Auburn?

        I wouldn’t just be satisfied. I would be overjoyed.

        I feel like most of us (myself included) would be livid.

        I wouldn’t care if we went 0-12 the next season.

        10 win seasons are nice and all, but they are bar fodder for fans trying to justify the quality of their program.

        SEC and national titles are eternal, and always matter to everyone.

        SEC and national titles are what preserve and guarantee your program’s relevance for years and decades to come. They are the foundation upon which you sustain an engaged fanbase for decades.

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        • Sparrow

          If SEC & national titles are eternal and always matter to everyone, would you be happy with your football team if you were a Texas fan? If they always matter, wouldn’t an 0-12 season necessarily be antithetical to that concept? With the preservation of relevance for decades provided by a national championship, how do you feel about Colorado, Washington, Miami, Nebraska, or Tennessee? Without a title, are we currently an unengaged fanbase?

          You can call me a fan trying to justify the quality of my program, I suppose, but I watch Georgia every year. The losses upset me. I have higher hopes than 7-5 seasons, so when we lose, I don’t just shrug and move on. But, I keep watching every year and I’m trying to enjoy every year. I’m not interested in a national championship if it comes at the drastic costs you’re offering because I will hate what comes after and my expectations as a fan include caring about the team every year.

          One of the reasons that so many people are jealous and envious of Nick Saban is because he seems to have discovered the secret to operating at that next gear. The one we catch glimmers of, but never hold on to. Of course, even the Tide can’t win every game, but they do an impressive job of preserving success. Other than you, who is jealous of Gene Chizik?

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          • would you be happy with your football team if you were a Texas fan?

            Yes.

            They’ll be back.

            Oh, and they also make more money than UGA by the way.

            National titles are eternal.

            10 win seasons are forgettable.

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            • Sparrow

              So I suppose Colorado will be back too? And Washington? Nebraska? If all teams who hold national titles will be back because of their eternal nature, how is there room for the transcendence you are claiming? Can they all be great? If they can’t all be great (and obviously they can’t), then logically a majority of them are going to experience seasons where losses get in the way of championships. Do you really think that Miami fans, what few there are, look at this season and say to themselves, “it’s fine, we won a title more than a decade ago…”? Satisfaction with your football team is a continuing and ongoing experience. A title does nothing to assuage that. Were you comfortable during the Goff years because of a title less than two decades earlier?

              The state of Texas has a higher GDP than Georgia. Move there and become a Texas fan. Please.

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              • Washington and Colorado don’t have anywhere near the comparable history of Texas (or Georgia).

                And yes, I think Miami fans wouldn’t trade away their championships to change the last few seasons to 8-10 wins.

                ESPN just had an article about the top 10 national champs of the BCS era. One of those Miami teams was #1 on the list.

                That’s the kind of eternal payoff winning titles has, and that’s something I am sure Miami fans got a huge thrill out of – far more than a meaningless and forgettable 8-10 win season with no conference or national title.

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              • The state of Texas has a higher GDP than Georgia. Move there and become a Texas fan. Please.

                Texas also has far more FBS level football programs. Point is, their commitment to winning titles keeps the money and engagement going even when they have down seasons.

                Georgia’s dominance (and national title) in the 80s is probably a huge factor in what helped keep things from going completely in the dumpster in the 90s despite many years of utter sadness.

                In fact, I remember in the late 80s and early 90s when we sucked, and it was actually less miserable than it is right now. Because at least we had a semi-recent national title and multiple SEC titles.

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        • All those Miami fans who stopped buying tickets in the mid-2000s feel differently. Same with the USC fans who disengaged financially. The 2000 and the 2004 BCS thropies did not engage those fans for half a decade.

          Look, I understand your set of values on that topic. You would accept an 0-12 season for a 15-0 season. I would not. We just value those yearly rivalry match ups differently. I am cool with you having that view if you are cool with me having a different set of values. I want to have a strong team every year and the chips fall where they may regarding the post season.

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          • USC is still raking in the cash.

            And any issues they had were the result of the NCAA abusing its power and going apeshit on them in a grossly excessive manner.

            National titles are eternal.

            10 win seasons are as meaningless as kissing your sister.

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    • Reservoir Dawg

      “as they stare GUSTILY…” FIFY in Corinne-speak. Go Gatuh! Corch McMahain, Corch McIllswine, Corch-whatever-the-hell she will mangle that into. I can’t wait to hear it!

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    • Would I trade a few more five loss seasons for a couple national championships? Absolutely you better believe I would

      Same.

      I think nearly all fans would do the same.

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  2. But would you trade for the hot mess in Gainesville that has come with it? Meyer won, sure, but holy shit he left Muschamp a pile to clean up. And Meyer’s own teams were stock full of malcontents and oh yeah, a murderer.

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  3. Spike

    Like I said earlier, I’ve never heard of this new UF coach, and I follow college football as you all do. Let’s hope, shall we, he is Boom 2.0? And the Gators go broke hiring him..

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    • DawgFaithful

      You must follow college football as closely as you think if you’ve never heard of McElwain. Where were you 2008-2010?

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  4. groucht

    I’m frustrated but I don’t trust AD Greg to hire a football coach. I want a better AD before I want to change football coaches.

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    • TXBaller

      Sounds like you’ve bought into the hype of this blog re: BM/McGarity and their incompetence. Let me ask one question: Who has McGarity had to hire? Let’s wait and cast judgement once he has made a decision regarding a critical hire. Be reminded that McGarity fully supported and quickly pulled together a deal to get the DC from the defending national champs to jump to UGA this past January.The BM/McGarity posts are merely deflection and fear-mongering from Richt defenders.

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      • Be reminded that McGarity fully supported and quickly pulled together a deal to get the DC from the defending national champs to jump to UGA this past January.

        So has GM made a decision regarding a critical hire or not?

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        • 81Dog

          how’d GMG do with the gymnastics hire? Or the baseball hire? Has he straightened out the issues with the swimming program?

          I’m pretty sure equestrian is under control, so there’s that.

          I don’t know if he can make a significant hire or not, but hiring a person to run women’s soccer (no offense) or men’s track isn’t quite the same as tossing someone the keys to the engine that drives your over 100 million dollar athletic budget. Based on how GMG is running the most visible programs, I’m disappointed to say I’m agnostic on his overall skills. Whether that’s because he lacks sufficient ability, or because he inherited a goat rodeo in the administrative offices of the AD or because the heavy thumb of some boosters and our former president have been on his proverbial scale, I can’t say. We’re apparently making a ton of money, so that’s something, but we don’t seem to be challenging for Sears Cup (or whatever it is now) trophies like we were 10 years ago.

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  5. ASEF

    Meyer leaving killed Foley’s probable game plan. LSU and Alabama are throwing facilities and raises at Miles and Saban because they can, but also because they are trying to achieve enough separation from the rest of the hiring market to keep those programs destination jobs in a market where that distinction is rapidly disappearing. Is that fair, seemly, or prudent? Don’t know, but it comes from shuffling through a whole lot of Dubose/Shula/Price/Dinardo before lucking into a Saban. I am guessing both programs estimate that its less expensive in the long run to make sure the hot names listen to your pitch no matter how good their current situation.

    Meyer’s implosion kept Foley from.building on a stable platform, which is a tare commodity in CFB.

    Which is a long way of getting around to this: BM is going to look back at the Right Era as a ruthlessly squandered opportunity.

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  6. The other Doug

    This post illustrates why posters who want to fire Richt need to list the candidates for the job. The best guy to replace Richt is probably Bobo.

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  7. Biggus Rickus

    I would expect Georgia to hire someone like McElwain. Georgia’s never going to be willing to to what Alabama did with Saban, especially with coaching salaries multiplying with each passing season.

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    • The other Doug

      Ok, Who should Georgia hire?

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      • Biggus Rickus

        It will depend on who’s available if/when Richt is fired or leaves. This year, McElwain would have been the best option they would have paid for. Rod Carey at Northern Illinois looks like a good choice in coming years if someone doesn’t hire him this go ’round.

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        • Jeff Sanchez

          I would have been beyond angry if we fired this staff and detonated recruiting for an unproven head coach.

          Think about how crazy that would be for a second

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          • Biggus Rickus

            You think things are going to improve, and I don’t. If you think Richt is unlikely to do much more than win 8 to 10 games a year, it’s not crazy.

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            • The other Doug

              But you can’t give us a name of the guy to hire in order to get to the promise land.

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              • Biggus Rickus

                I gave you a couple of names. Nobody would be a guarantee. I think I know what we can expect from Richt, and I’m willing to take a shot on someone doing better. Frankly, this line of argument is just a change of subject. The argument is over whether or not Richt is doing a good enough job. I don’t think he is. You do. He’s not being fired, so why worry about it?

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      • Mayor

        IMHO “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.” The staff at UGA is fine. We don’t need new position coaches or DC or OC. CMR isn’t getting fired but if he retired I would promote one of the co-ordinators, most likely Pruitt, and let the new HC fill that slot. Minimal expense and it doesn’t destroy everything already in place.

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        • Cosmic Dawg

          This. As many have posted, CMR pretty much always fields a team that can hang with anybody in the country. We have great coordinators, Bobo would be reasonable choice, no gaps in recruiting, no surprises, and a DGD to boot.

          We may find our stability gives us another competitive edge down the road when the other teams have spent themselves out through buyouts and have to cut back on salaries. That would be a point for BM, would it not?

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          • Cojones

            Simple. Agreed.

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          • DugLite

            Would you promote, which is also hiring from within, to fill the empty coordinator position and then hire another young start up position coach? If the answer is yes then who would the promotion for the coordinator position go to on the offense or defense?

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      • SouthsideDawg

        Mark Dantonio

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        • Good coach. His record is not as good as Richt’s (92-48, 65.7% in weaker conferences, and 4-4 bowl record.) USA Today says he makes $5.6 million a year with a $5 million buyout. I know McGarity is dying to pay Richt $3.5 million next year, pay Dantonio more than $5.6 million next year and pay MSU $5 million next year, totaling $13 million to substitute a coach with a worse record.

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    • What other coach out there is a Saban? There isn’t one. The closest to him is Chip Kelly, who doesn’t have a championship on his resume.

      The other question I have for people is whether they are willing to accept the increased contribution requirements and the ticket price increases to help pay for all of this.

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      • Biggus Rickus

        Yes. And I’m also willing to suffer through the aftermath of a bad hire. Most people don’t agree with me yet, though, so it’s moot.

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        • Cojones

          Are you now? Heidi-Ho. Who on earth would be willing to suffer through a pile of shit? That’s just wonderful! With no more guarantees that you won’t get something worse immediately nor into the future. Wow! What a sentiment. You have a perfectly good pony that you are giving up forever so that you might search for the horseshit? You may find yourself quite alone in that kind of endeavor.

          Biggus, your Riggus doesn’t even support a cogent argument for changing dicks in the middle of a bad screw.

          Like

      • Aren’t the Oregon folks lucky? That damn Chip Kelly may have had a pretty record but Oregonians were never able to take selfies with the crystal football at the Eugene Wal-Mart. Without that, they may as well have been 0-12 each year. By going to the NFL Oregon saved the buy out of that underachiever.

        Like

    • Gaskilldawg

      Georgia ‘s not going to be willing to do what Alabama did with Saban? You mean, offer the job to Rich Rodriguez then hire Saban after Rich Rod turned it down? With our luck Rich Rod would have said “yes.”

      Alabama is a great example of the cap shoot that is hiring coaches. Had Mal Moore’s plan had happened Saban would not be coaching at Alabama.

      Like

      • Gaskilldawg

        Geez. “Crap shoot,” not “cap shoot.”

        Like

      • Biggus Rickus

        I meant offer someone one of the top five salaries on the market to get him. I also expect Rodriguez would have been successful at Alabama. Probably not as successful as Saban, but successful enough to still be coaching there.

        Like

        • GaskillDawg

          Rich Rod probably would be successful at Alabama if you define success as wining 74% of his games (which I do.) There would not be the Rich Rod envy, however, as there is Saban envy. And another school may have won each of those 3 BCS championships. UGA 2012 may have been one of them.

          Like

          • Biggus Rickus

            Clearly I assume he would have won a couple of SEC titles. Otherwise, he wouldn’t still be coaching there. Yay, hypotheticals.

            Like

            • GaskillDawg

              Sure, if we assume, say, Kirk Ferentz would have won a couple of SEC titles at Alabama then we should hire him, well, sure! By the way, you are assuming that Rich Rod would have won exactly the same number of SEC titles at Alabama as Saban has won.

              Like

  8. South FL Dawg

    I like the Riley hire at Nebraska better. The thing is whoever the next great hire is, he’s toiling away in relative obscurity.

    Like

  9. Just saw the story on McElwain on gameday. Hate to say it but FU may have a winner.

    Like

    • The other Doug

      Why? He is 3-10 against FBS teams with a winning record. His best win is beating BC this year. He hasn’t recruited a class above #75 on rivals.

      The only thing he has going for him is he was Bama’s OC three years ago.

      Like

      • Not a big fan of the guy and hope he fails at FU. But he did rebuild CSU and seems like a solid guy. He seems to have head coaching skills which boom obviously did not. Just like in business a good head coach has the management skills to put in place systems and people which lead to success.

        Like

  10. gastr1

    People forget where the most successful current coaches were before they became so successful. How many had won anything much and then changed schools? Patterson? D’Antonio? Malzahn? Rich Rodriguez? Les Miles? Urban Meyer and Saban were coming off of unsuccessful post-NC years….There’s scarcely anyone else currently considered top-tier you can even name that really won anything much before being on the market.

    Bottom line is, you’re almost 100% of the time taking a chance on someone or they wouldn’t be in the job market at all.

    Like

  11. Mayor

    Senator: I can’t make any picks in the pool for some reason. I’m getting a message that says “contact the commissioner.” It also says no games have been chosen.

    Like

    • Dude, there’s no pool this week. I thought you read my posts. 😉

      Like

      • Mayor

        Naw, I just listen to the music. 🙂

        Like

        • Cojones

          You could have my problem of not reading comprehensively and having to go back several days to where Blutarsky said that he would get the bowl games up in the next days after Sunday’s bowl announcements before you realize there are no games to bet on this week.

          But remembered that someone did ask for conference championship games so that we could satisfy our gambling urge that was terminated too early and quickly for us, the weak.

          Senator, you’re worse than a cocaine dealer; you get us hooked and turn off the flow. You even ignored the begging for Div 2 games and the Blazers.

          The clutching unwashed go through another week of gambling withdrawal only to face the inevitability of an overdose of bowl games. “Oy”, indeed.

          Like

        • Cosmic Dawg

          I just look at the pictures – trouble is, NO PICTURES.

          Like

  12. Russ

    Great analysis, Senator. I think we all agree that hiring is a big risk. I prefer the consistency we have now, and fully believe that one day soon Richt will get us a MNC. Others, like Jim above, are willing to risk more bad seasons for the chance at great seasons. There’s not a right answer, but we’ve seen what BM’s answer is by sticking with Richt.

    Like

  13. Bright Idea

    Discussions like this is why firing a winning coach is so risky. No matter who Georgia hired at least half the opinions would be that it was a bad hire, and most of that would come from the anti-Richt crowd. Those who want Richt fired would never give a McElwain or Riley type hire a chance.

    Like

    • Biggus Rickus

      I think Riley is a terrible hire. I’d have been fine with McElwain.

      Like

      • Biggus Dickus

        They got him on the cheap, Bro. He was about to be run out of Corvallis and he wanted to avoid the mob with the tar and feathers. But maybe when he arrives in Lincoln he will be met by a mob with tar and feathers. He needs to negotiate a long-term contract with the Huskers so when they fire him after next season he’ll get plenty of dough.

        Like

  14. ClydeBoogie

    For me, if coach richt wins one in the next five years and keeps the integrity our program has now. I would consider him our greatest coach ever! Good Senator, how about a win a national championship cheat so bad it makes Saban, Miles and Freeze blush poll. That’s what we need here…yeah, some good old by any means necessary.

    Like

  15. Will Trane

    Coaches or players.
    Gurshall. Where did that tandem go after first season. Along with a few other players who transferred or suspended.
    Is Coach Richt a good coach? Game management? Player management? Game plans? Staffing.
    Muschamp fired at UF because lack of wins and accomplishments. Guess those national titles of “96, “04, & “06 were a standard for comparison and just too high in that period of history..
    Is Spurrier a good coach. Has a national title, but had a miserable season. The bright stars of the culture said Bobo, Smart, and Muschamp were no fail guys.
    Saban wins because he puts together a staff and a ton of players. And he has a legendary history of wins and titles.
    Bear Bryant? Sorta like Gurshall? Faint and distant.
    And CMR’s last SEC title. When did that happen?
    Lost a game to a coach whose team had a miserable season. To another who was fired, but beat the hell out of us. And a Missouri team that got its clock cleaned at home but in the Dome.
    And then the throw away to Paul Johnson’s boys who had a decent season in almost half a century.
    What is says to me. Georgia finds great comfort in mediocre. Sorta like investing in assets. Take risk at the right time. Look for and shop for better rates of returns.
    CMR is a fine man. Let us not take a chance and change. But let us keep on getting diminished returns [like dividends and gains].
    AD is looking for 10 wins and CMR has one more game to start turning the corner. And he must because UF and UT are not sitting still, and they more than likely will not look like they have the past 2-3 seasons.
    i say discount the history and look to the future.

    Like

    • Where did Gurshall go after their 1st season? Keith tore his ACL in Knoxville on a dirty play and hasn’t been the same since. He was running wild in relief of Gurley until the injury. Hopefully, he’ll be back full speed next season. Regarding Gurley, he just leaves Athens as #2 in career rushing yards and touchdowns. He was pretty darn good.

      The comment about them was totally off base and a cheap shot.

      Like

  16. ! Fred Russo

    Thats the difference between Fl & GA FL WANTS TO WIN WE DONT CARE

    Like

  17. Ron

    Yet Jeremy Pruitt took a lateral move from a national title team returning it’s Heisman winning QB.

    Hiring the right coach doesn’t have to follow the rules.

    Like

    • GaskillDawg

      He left a MNC team to work for an underacheiving slacker coach of a 2nd tier team, if I understand the comments correctly.

      Like

  18. Skeptic Dawg

    Great post that clearly lays out the fears of one portion of the fan base and the hope for the second portion. Change must be entered into with great thought and a clear plan. Yes, there is a dollar amout tied to change. I am willing to take a risk to be great and no longer believe that Richt is cable of delivering greatness. The program currenlty sits in a delicate position between great and mediocre. Some fans are happy with this current position and while others clamor for change. Neither is wrong. Thanks for providing a great venue with excellent content for both sides of our fan base to enjoy.

    Like

    • Russ

      Skeptic, you’re right that there two schools here, and I’m glad Richt is our coach. However, don’t think I’m satisfied with not winning championships. I’m not. I just think we’re a lot closer than you think to winning one. I think Richt gets one soon and I understand why you don’t think that. I agree it can be frustrating waiting to see if we win one, but in the meantime I’ve chosen to enjoy our wins more than I let our losses eat at me. Don’t take that for complacency though.

      Like

      • Debby Balcer

        Well said Russ.

        Like

      • Mayor

        I agree with you, Russ. UGA under Mark Richt is close. The team has a great staff of assistant coaches and excellent players. The GT debacle may actually be a blessing in the long run. I said in an earlier post that people do not learn unless the lesson is painful. The GT end of game screw-up (there were really 2: the pooch kick-off and the TO giving Tech time to carefully line up the FG attempt) was so obvious and so widely reported that it had to be profoundly embarrassing to CMR. That may be enough motivation that he takes steps to prevent future end of game snafus. That really has been the only thing I have against him–kicking away games at the end. If he didn’t do that he would be at or near the very top of the college coaching profession IMHO.

        Like

        • What TO?

          The TO called at 22 seconds was called by Tech, not us.

          Like

          • Mayor

            The TO CMR called to “ice the kicker” when the play clock was inside 5 seconds and Tech either had to rush the FG try to get it off or take a delay of game penalty that would have set the ball back outside the Tech kicker’s range. The TO that gave Tech time to comfortably set up for the FG and then make it from 53 yards. That TO.

            Like

      • Dawgfan Will

        Exactly. Well said.

        Like

    • AusDawg85

      Bullshit. There’s no risk when you’re gambling with someone else’s money. Crying for change and not giving a damn about results until…and IF…we hit the lottery of a MNC is having no skin in the game at all. Standing behind the current program is higher risk and will bear the greater reward if successful. When change is needed it will be fairly obvious. Now is not that time.

      Like

      • Skeptic Dawg

        Now is not the time to change…for you. And that’s great. It’s your opinion. Now is the time to change for me. We have different thresholds of patience. After 9 years (2006 – 2014) of falling short I am ready to sacrifice a few bumps in the road for the greater good of the program. You believe that RICHT is capable of guiding this program to SECC’s and national playoffs. I do not have the same faith in the guy. Will either of our opinions drive McGarity to move one way or another? Certainly not. But as fans we can have this debate and still root for the Dawgs. i don’t hate Richt, but I certainly don’t want him on the sidelines moving forward.

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  19. Is the McElwain hiring a cautionary tale for Georgia? Of course it is but not for those who choose to either not let logic take them to an obvious but unwanted conclusion or more likely they fall into the “there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see” category. .Fire Richt and pay 10’s of millions to get a McElwain, If this isn’t a cautionary tale about looking before you leap I don’t know what is.

    Like

  20. Mac

    I find it interesting to hear all this talk about how coach Richt isn’t competitive enough and “loses”games he shouldn’t have. Has there ever been a loss that you haven’t looked back on and thought “we could have won that game if not for____________”? Was I the only one that remembers that we easily should have been up 21-0 against Tech if not for two fumbles inside the one (which, by the way Richt had no control over)? Do you honestly think Tech would have continued with the same game plan under those circumstances, or do you think they would have started trying to pass more? I admit (along with coach Richt) that the sqib kick wasn’t the best choice, but that doesn’t negate the fact that we easily were in position to blow that game wide open BECAUSE of Mark Richt, Mike Bobo, Jeremy Pruitt, and the rest of the coaches’ game plan.

    Like

    • bulldogbry

      Agree, Mac and on the other end, haven’t there been some wins that the other team could say the same thing? Games we had no business winning but did?

      Like

      • AusDawg85

        That’s what Spurrier thought this year about the game with us. Knew we beat him, but the mistakes let them steal a win.

        Like

        • Mayor

          That’s certainly what Spurrier said post-game in as nice a way as possible. Spurrier said much the same in 2011 when Georgia basically gave South Carolina the win with special teams snafus. I’ll give Spurrier credit. He accepts the gift wins graciously and admits the Georgia outplayed his team but gave the game away, when that happens. And it happens regularly.

          Like

    • Wrong, the no whistle on Swann’s fumble return was a 14 pt swing. That offsets the 2fumbles. Not a fire Richt guy, but each team was the benefit of 14 pt screw ups so it was a push. The squib kick lost the game.

      Like

      • Mayor

        Don’t bother, GD. This guy is in a constant state of denial about Richt. To him CMR can do no wrong. The loss is always somebody else’s fault like a player fumbling near the beginning of the game, an interception in the 3rd quarter, a kickoff that shouldn’t have been run out or just bad luck. He always comes up with something other than CMR kicking away the game when 100,000 people in a stadium and 50 millions others just saw that very thing happen. The worst Richt apologist on the blog.

        Like

  21. Cojones

    Holy Cow! The players we recruited last year has many good players ready to step into another loaded offense and defense. The 2015 recruits are tops in the country and the 2016 recruits have begun as tops in the country. We have the best coaches and players in cfb and are continually improving.

    And you people are still talking about undoing it?

    That’s insanity caused by not ever admitting you are wrong-or ever could be.

    Like

  22. UGA85

    There are no rewards in life without taking risks. Those who want to keep CMR because of risks involved in change are afraid of change. I believe the measure of success in football should be championships, and if anyone tries to compare UGA to UF over the past 10 to 20 years and place UGA even remotely close to UF, then you have rationalized and invented another way to measure success. Hope is not a strategy in football. And hope is all the defenders of the status quo have left.

    Like

    • The other Doug

      So, you are the AD. Who do you hire?

      Like

      • UGA85

        The first step is to have the will to pursue excellence. And at UGA that means change. Once that decision is made, I personally would give Pruitt a chance. But I also think there are many others who would win more championships at UGA than CMR. The bar is not set very high.

        Like

        • Dawgoholic

          Well, this century UF and UGA both have two SEC Championships – the only Championships we can really control. We’ve got 5 Eastern Division Championships and UF has 3 – the other pseudo championship that we can control.

          I’d say we’re pretty much on par with UF but have not had the same luck with our really good teams. We also ran into a helluva Bama team in 2012 – I doubt UF’s 2006 or 2008 teams would have done any better against that team. No doubt, I’d rather have UF’s MNCs than our 5 Eastern Division Championships – but I also recognize that we’re not far from where they have been based on what we can control.

          Like

    • Dawgfan Will

      I’m sorry, but hope is the only thing all those who want change have as well. You hope that getting rid of a successful coach will lead to hiring a more successful coach without any more ability to prove that it will than those of us who support Richt can prove that his past success will lead to greater success.

      Like

  23. UGA85

    Heck, the SEC East has been shown to be inferior to the good ACC teams. I think CPJ would be a better choice right now than CMR. I know that is sacrilege, but I think he would have won the East this year with our schedule and his level of talent. I can’t imagine if he had our level of talent, but an SEC title would not have been out of the realm of possibility.

    Like

    • Dawgfan Will

      CPJ? We should hire the coach our current coach has lost to twice since 2008? Ooookay.

      Like

    • Dawgfan Will

      And I think that Johnson has proven that he wouldn’t have our level of talent if he was our coach. Chan Gailey out-recruited him, for Pete’s sake.

      Like

      • Dawgoholic

        The comment on CPJ shows that UGA85 is either a troll or an absolute moron. I’d do a better job at UGA than CPJ – as long as I could keep Bobo and Pruitt.

        Like

  24. Then the logical conclusion is that the “have nots” who don’t have the “risk” that UGA has in letting Richt go, will continue to hire hot assistants and hope to hit it big. Eventually, when they do, they will be able to hold onto that coach.

    What does that mean for Richt? If he doesn’t improve the product, then maybe the 8-4 seasons become 6-6 seasons as the parity caused by “everybody having money” makes for a tougher environment.

    Richt and McGarrity simply cannot continue on the present path. McGarrity can’t continue to penny pinch and we can’t be the only program who views marijuana usage as an existential threat. UGA can’t continue to try to be the cleanest turd in the toilet.

    I’m betting against Richt and McGarrity changing. The malaise will eventually do them both in.

    Like

    • Interesting angle, jimmy. Given all this money swirling around in your analysis I would be led to think the IPF becomes an ever expanding elephant-in-the-room. Maybe that is the McG acid test — how fast does he bust his ass to get the backhoes digging?

      Also, something that occured to me: You have to believe CMR looks at the lack of SEC Championships for the last decade and has a sense of self preservation. In that light, it seems strange he would not have fought hard to keep Gurley’s suspension at 2 games. It would be important to know the dynamics in the extra 2 games TGII received. I still believe the UF games is entirely different with #3 toting the pigskin.

      Like

    • Cojones

      Dang! Ganja is a threat to my existential? The ‘Nesian ain’t gonna be happy about that.

      Like

  25. UGA85

    Are we afraid of change because it could be expensive? If we are, then we have an explanation for the current state of UGA football and athletics in general. Our will to win has to be stronger than our love of money.

    Like

    • Dawgfan Will

      Now this I agree with. It also happens to be something the coaches have little control over.

      Like

    • Cojones

      The “will to win” is different in every player and every team and every game. When you find a way to marshall everything that is “will to win” at one time and continue to do that for several years, you would be in the elite of all time in cfb. That changeling in every mindset is never so permanent with changing players, differing teams and institutions (along with the insertion of “luck”), that the possibility of achievement would only be accomplished nowadays by Isis, through terror and kamikaze tactics, much like the early Paul Bryant A&M teams that didn’t produce until later.

      I see no loss of “will to win” on any team before a game. When a 340 lb bulldozer is putting your 280lb butt in the dirt on every rush, it’s called “getting beat” not loss of “will to win”. If a coach could occupy every player’s mind and body movement, I’m sure their “will to win” would be apparent. Otherwise, innuendo of malice towards a coach could be measured here and one would never have to refer to terms like “will to win” to describe something you have no way of measuring.

      Like

      • Dawgfan Will

        Indeed. “Will to win” and it’s ilk are the kind of meaningless platitudes Herbstreit spouts that rightfully earn the scorn of others.

        Like

  26. Sooooo, you’re saying we should go for Gruden?

    Like

  27. Not to threadjack, but one of the projected or possible Bowl scenarios includes UGa in the Citrus-cum-Capitol One Bowl vs. Louisville. I find this scenario ironically delicious given the undercurrents that surrounded this season.

    Like

  28. UGA85

    Richt is not a victim in this. He has control over whether UGA wins championships or not. He should be accountable for his mistakes. The fact that he is not held accountable makes it easier for him to be mediocre, but it does not excuse his willingness to settle for the level of play he settles for in the first place.

    Like

  29. UGA85

    To the point about “will to win” and pursuing excellence, please don’t get defensive about CMR. He is a great man, and I admire him in many ways. But he does not pursue coaching with the single-mindedness that others in his field do, and it shows. I can admire him as a man and still say that he needs to move on. He could do many things with his life at this point. But our football program should be better than it is, and he should be accountable as the head coach.

    Like

    • Cojones

      Referring to only a couple of quick examples, but how was “will to win” not by the players who led the way downfield to score the winning TD with seconds to spare in the NATS game and last yr’s Auburn game. What happened in those few seconds that you would brand good coaching and playing not a “will to win”?

      Or do you have a memory span of less than me on two doobies?

      Like

  30. UGA85

    I don’t know why things get so personal when opinions are expressed. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to see that UGA has problems, and I don’t claim to be one. I do think it is important to disassociate CMR from UGA; I can be loyal to UGA and want the best for my alma mater without wanting CMR to remain the head coach.

    Like

  31. A willingness to win consistently at the highest level, which I believe we should demonstrate, would be manifest in championships and excellent play. Specific plays or instances either positively or negatively don’t demonstrate this quality as well as championships, in my opinion. Are we consistently better than otherwise comparable teams? Do you look at us and say: “Now that is how the game of football should be played!” Does our trophy case reflect the resources and talent at our disposal? I don’t think so, and I honestly feel we could do better with different leadership.

    Like

  32. SouthsideDawg

    Very good comments, but I do believe that Richt will NEVER win a championship at UGA. He doesn’t have it IN him, he doesn’t have the IT factor needed. A coach has to have that “want to”, and he doesn’t. He does just enough to get by. His comments about “there is more to life than winning football games” really will hurt his credibility. Is it true, absolutely, and me being an HVAC technician saying it, means nothing. But in the middle of July, its 98 degrees outside, and my customer air conditioning is out, and I tell them “there is more to life than having a working air conditioning system” I don’t want to hear my coach say that, because it will resonate with the team, and that’s how you lay an egg or two every year, because at the end of the day, why bust your hump to win a game, why care about accountability if you don’t make a play… “there is more to life than winning football games”…. and by the way, the #1 hire when Richt is finally gone, which I hope is soon… is to go open up the vault, and bring down Mark Dantonio from Michigan State. He will get the job DONE!

    Like

    • The NFL is the “Just win, baby” league.

      UGA is a university. It views the football program as part of the educational mission. Winning is really important. Ray Goff would attest to that. But at UGA winning isn’t everything. The guys who served drug suspensions would attest to that.

      The reason UGA athletic association is tax exempt is that it is not just winning. Educating young men and teaching life skills is a part of the coaches’ job descriptions.

      Your analogy to your profession fails there. Repairing the a/c is your only mission. The University gives Richt more than one mission,

      Like

    • Dawgfan Will

      See? This guy thinks we need more grit, too.

      Like

  33. I don’t think there are 127 teams with the resources and talent that UGA has. How many are there? I don’t know. 10? 15? The South, and Georgia in particular, is the place to be. Missouri? Maybe a quarter of what we have, maybe less. I am sorry if I am the only one to believe this, but I do expect more than what we have become.

    Like

  34. It’s like someone who’s can play SimCity thinking they would be effective a a city manager.

    Like

  35. W Cobb Dawg

    Well then, the problem is solved. All we need to do is sit back and watch CMR reel in some championships over the next 10+ years.

    I’d like to see a reader poll predicting how many championships CMR will win before he hangs it up.

    Like

    • AusDawg85

      Does he get to spend the same money you’d have us spend hiring new HC’s, buy-outs, etc.?

      Like

      • W Cobb Dawg

        ESPN and advertisers are shelling out the BIG bucks, not you and me. So maybe arguing over the pricetag of success is a fools errand. One should question the groupthink that believes CMR is a great deal financially. Maybe we should take a look at what his inability to bring championships has cost. Maybe most of the nation believes UGA is another also-rans in the sec – piggybacking off the success of the bamas, LSUs, fu’s, etc. that have won championships.

        Like