Gee, I wonder why.
Nationwide commercial: The gift that keeps giving. pic.twitter.com/nUzuGxwjME
— Brett Edgerton (@EditorEdge) February 2, 2015
Nationwide commercial: The gift that keeps giving. pic.twitter.com/nUzuGxwjME
— Brett Edgerton (@EditorEdge) February 2, 2015
I only hope some enterprising Georgia beat writer gets ahold of Mike Bobo for a comment.
Filed under Strategery And Mechanics
After that play I said “What a Bobo call”
Can’t we just let a dead season die???
Where’s the sport in that? 😉
Right out of the Georgia-South Carolina game playbook. But, hey, according to certain posters on this blog, the pass call and INT at the end of the Super Bowl didn’t lose the game for Seattle. No, what caused them to lose happened in the first quarter when the Seahawks didn’t get a first down and go on to score a TD on their initial possession. Or something like that.
So…if Seattles scores there, do they squib kick it?
Well the patriots D did pull a nice one with 29 seconds before half. Nice allowing back to back 20+ yard runs.
I get the logic of the playcall…..with only one timeout, there wasn’t enough time to run 3 more running plays, had they needed all 4 downs. Either 2nd or 3rd down almost had to be a pass play to make sure you had time for all available downs. But man, sometimes it’s just not that hard. Coaches love to out think themselves. He’s the best power RB in the game, feed it to him!
Yes there was, they let 30 seconds run off before the pass play. If you cannot run 2 plays in 30 seconds your team sucks. They had over 1 minute with a TO and were at the 6 yard line.
At the end of the now infamous pass play there were 20 seconds on the clock. If Seattle would have ran it instead (and gotten stopped), they’d have 20-22 seconds on the clock with a TO. Thus, they could have used their TO there, ran it again on 3rd down and even hurried up and ran it again on 4th down with time to spare.
So even if Seattle let the clock wind down, they still would have had 3 chances to score in that situation. Instead, that play goes down as one of the all-time bad calls in Super Bowl history.
Yeah I get what both you and Merk are saying, and I’m not passionately defending the playcall by any means. I’m just looking at it within the timeframe of how it unfolded. The ball was snapped at :26, and if they had run in and been stopped, by the time Lynch got stacked up (remember he never goes down on the first hit) and the TO was called, I think more likely there’s 18-20 seconds left on the clock. Then if they run it on 3rd down and get stopped (with say 12 or 13 seconds on the clock), you know the defenders are gonna be piled on top of the runner, and you’re depending on the refs to actually stop the clock and give the offense time to re-set after unpiling all the bodies. And we all know how hit and miss officials are with enforcing that. I think it’s entirely possible that two running plays that were stopped could have ended the game.
Now to Merck’s point, if they had run 2nd down faster, then my argument goes out the window. But then if they scored on 2nd down everybody would be saying “WHAT WAS THE HURRY? MILK THE CLOCK!”
Again, I’m not passionately arguing this, I’m just saying I see the logic of what Carroll was thinking. Not that I necessarily agree with it. I think even if they were only able to get 2 plays off, giving Lynch 2 cracks from the 1 yard line is a pretty strong bet.
Eh, I have a harder time following the logic. They ran what I believe was their best goal line pass play on 2nd down when that should be saved for 3rd or 4th down (or both!) when the game is truly on the line and you need to dial up your go-to pick play/quick slant. Eerily similar to Georgia running their best goal line pass play (see Staff vs. GT in ’06 or Mason vs. either GT/UL this year) against USC too early in the down sequence. It’s almost as if OCs get antsy and want to force the issue, outsmart the defense and go ahead and put points on the board instead of remaining calm and running the offense as they would if clock weren’t a factor.
The pressure certainly increases considerably if the Pats force a 3rd/4th down but you have a pretty cool customer at QB. And there is always the possibility of a bad handoff exchange/Lynch putting it on the ground, not to mention any gamemanship the Pats may attempt to drain some clock.
With one timeout, I give the rock to Beast Mode and let him do this thing. He’s thinking about two things – breaking the plane and celebratory skittles. Go ahead and take the timeout if he gets stuffed and draw up your best two pass plays – or just a single play and run it twice – knowing that you have a mobile QB who could very well punch it in with his feet. Carroll fell on the sword as he should because he should have vetoed the call.
I will say that Wilson/’Hawks made things less straight forward with poor clock management – they had to burn at least 1, maybe 2 TOs to avoid delay of game penalties. I guarantee their approach at the 5 or 6 is much different if they’re sitting with at least 2 TOs. And in general, I love the pick play even though I think it’s kinda cheap, but I like to see the ball thrown low in those situations so it’s either TD or incompletion.
Definitely agree about the timeouts. If they are sitting there with 2 TO’s, I doubt if the ball goes in the air.
Rev, it never should have gone in the air in the first place–even if they had 1 timeout or 10 time outs.
Pete mush have been thinking that Boston would sell out and send eleven players to stop the run. They didn’t want to get stuffed in the backfield.
It was the cruelest or most delicious (depending on who you were for) end to a Superbowl ever. I kinda liked it.
Pete didn’t think anything. It was the OC who made the call and Pete (to his credit) just didn’t throw the guy under the bus when things backfired.
Pete Carroll was miked during the Super Bowl. I just saw/heard a replay of Pete Carroll’s recording of the last 2 minutes. He had nothing to do with the bonehead call. It was all on the OC.
No, No, No, No, No. Bobo would’ve told his QB to intentionally ground the ball.
Tech would have him throw it out of bounds on 4th, so…..
Hard to figure which crayon we would use there. So many strategies.
Run three plays and a miss the field goal;
Score, kick the point, squib, and lose in overtime; or
Complete a pass short of the goal line and let the clock run out.
All of those had been used up already. So they picked the “force the pass and get the ball picked off at the goal line” strategy.
Good to see them use the rest of that yellow Georgia overtime crayon.
After the first play where Lynch went to the 2 yard line, I was thinking to myself, what idiots. Just let him score and give Brady 50 seconds and 2 TO to win this thing.
Then the play…
I was shocked that Belichick didn’t use one of his two TO’s. Instead he let the clock run down to 30 seconds or whatever. If Seattle scores with 10-20 seconds to play, all the talk today would be about Belichick’s stupid gaffe. Instead, he’s the hero and Carroll is the goat. Amazing how the little things in sports can do that to you.
A running clock can cause the opponent to rush and make a mistake, even with a timeout in hand.
Not too surprised he let the air out of the clock.
Merk..that’s thinking like a genius.
It may be obvious to some, but please allow me to ask: didn’t “the genius” do that a couple of years ago?
Sorry, Ug, but the more forgetful I get, the older I seem to get.
Yeah 2010 I think. We were up by one, he let us score to go up by 8, conceivably giving them a chance to tie with a TD and 2-pt conversion. It was the smartest decision in a loss ever, apparently. 🙂
The Patriots shortest scoring drive was 8 plays. There was almost no chance that they could mount a quick scoring drive consisting of pass plays for big yardage. The only way they could score was to dink and dunk their way down the field. That probably wouldn’t have happened with under a minute to play.
“But…that play worked earlier in the game!!”
Are we creating a new meme that, whenever a play ends up badly, there is no factual replay of the decision at the time it was made? All facts will be omitted simply because someone on the opposing made a great play? Or two? Oh…wait…
Do you have a burr up your butt because a number of people noticed a similarity in the two situations?
I assume you didn’t get the memo about never talking about anything that could be construed as negative, especially in relation to UGA football and any said past events of ours. Even sarcastic references or quips are hereby banned; otherwise you’ll be tarred and feathered by the brave, social justice warriors that are paragons of virtue on these here internets.
After the interception, Bobo’s wife screamed at the TV “Oh my god, what an idiot! How do you not run the ball there!!!!” Then quickly realizing her error, sheepishly glanced at her husband who was watching in silence.
Okay, that’s funny right there!
Wow, it sure is easy to call plays with 20/20 hindsight. For the record I was thinking the same thing as Merk – let them score, then put the game in Bradys hands with 50 sec left. I guess the offensive brain trust at Seattle are as dumb as Bobo huh? If anything, I think this vindicates Bobo. Calls are a lot tougher in real time. OK, you can proceed to beat on me now.
I’m with you. Above I called it among the worst calls in SB history, but on second thought, I don’t think it was THAT bad. 97 times out of 100, that goes for either a TD or merely is batted down. Seattle had some really bad luck there, as some non-drafted rookie from West Alabama made the play of the game that nobody could have dreamed up.
I too would have let them score, in which you’re only down 3 with 45-50 seconds and 2 time outs. Worst case, you kick a FG and take your chances in OT.
Seattle had some really bad luck there,…
Agree with you, but that cuts both ways. Only reason they were even in that position was because of a once in a lifetime catch. I’d say the same guy getting burned on that catch grabbing the game-ending INT was ol’e lady luck balancing the scales.
On a side note – how many “Oh no, here we go again” thoughts were running through Brady and Belichick’s heads after yet ANOTHER circus catch against them late in the Super Bowl?
On that miracle catch I couldn’t help but think how the rule changes have impacted the game . Prior to $50,000 fines on Defensive backs ,that safety who jumped over the Seattle receiver as he touched the ball for the 3rd or 4th time would have stuck his helmet in Kerse’s chest and that ball would have never been completed. Now with all the second guessing of DBs he jumps over a receiver who maybe defenseless but he can still hurt you and your team’s chances of winning the game. I’m thinking this is the cosmic scales balancing themselves out .Also, I think Butler holds on to that int maybe 1 out of a 100 times.
Did anyone else see Michele “Tafoya” chasing Butler around after the game to ask the stunningly insightful question” How do you feel?” I’m sure she will up for a Peabody for that epic and insightful piece of journalism.
Do not listen to the voice of the mind. Listen to the voice of the heart. The mind waivers, the heart does not. The mind is home to doubts, reasoning and theories
But wait Baba…this is the NFL Business…where the mind is king, where the heart goes home to Mama…. In this case the saying by the old Zoroastran philosopher Banawanga Oolitz seems more appropriate to me. He said” “Coach call play, if play work, coach is genius, if play does not work, coach is dumbass.”
“Wow, it sure is easy to call plays with 20/20 hindsight.”
…and here I was thinking there were a bunch of retired and brilliant coaches coming here to blog. 🙂
Hindsight, my ass. Right when they lined up in the gun, I thought it was a terrible decision. You have the best short yardage back in football, a line full of adrenaline, and a T.O. in your back pocket. It was INSANE not to run it straight ahead out of a power formation there.
Are you calling Pete Carroll who has won 2 NC’s and a Super Bowl insane in regards to calling a football game? I can’t stand Carroll but I think I might trust one of the best minds in football over a blog commenter. You are entitled to your opinion but saying the call is insane is nuts imo.
A particular decision can be insane / ill-advised / boneheaded without the man himself being such. Coach Richt made several very dumb decisions last season (and over his career), but I think he is generally a bright guy and a good coach.
Carroll / Bevell just happened to make an incredibly dumb decision at the absolute worst possible time. It has nothing to do with hindsight. Considering the circumstances, their thought process and decision-making were awful. I actually find it remarkable that there are some out there arguing to the contrary,
Carroll had nothing to do with the play call–it was the OC. Pete Carroll was miked during the game and was in cheerleader mode rather than calling any plays. I saw/heard the replay of the last 2 minutes.
With one time out that wasn’t the horrible decision everyone is saying it was. Great play by the DB. They couldn’t run three times. If they run there and don’t get it they have to burn the last TO. They could run on third down but if you don’t get it the game is over. By throwing in second down they preserve the last TO and they have run pass options on both 3rd and 4th down. I understand the criticism, but your are giving up a down if you run on second down. I heard tom Jackson and Steve young saying that if they didn’t like the defense they should have called TO. Now that would have been dumb. Real dumb.
“Great play by the DB” Without question, Derek. After watching the play for what…77 times in an hour? It seems to me the DB knew it was coming, sniffed the ball and made the play… If the defender, who played very minor college football at something call The University of West Alabama had not done his homework, not made the play, Seattle wins.
Pete is a genius.
Not, of course, that I give a left-threaded shit, one way or the other.
NE had practiced defending that play. The scout team even scored on it during practice and Belicheck emphasized jumping the rout. Great coaching and great play.
Every single football game, particularly games decided by less than one score, are open season for questioning multiple play calls. This is amplified when it occurs in the final few minutes. There are always a few options that may, or may not, have had a different consequence that MIGHT have succeeded. Clearly, we know that Carroll would not have made that decision had he known it would fail miserably, but if the pass play had worked, everyone would have praised the genius of out foxing the Patriots’ DC., drinks would have been raised toasting his brilliance and daring.
No one will ever know if the result would have been different, but the Hindsight Geniuses always think they are right and will sit around and act supreme. Great discussion until they claim there was really only one smart call to make, and that is where they fall on their face. I saw a stat last night that said Lynch had been given the ball 5 times this season on the one yard line and scored once, 20% success rate. Who knows? He might have fumbled the exchange, or lost the ball going in.
Second guessing is the burden of all decision makers, the little folks who are never in the position of making a decision are usually the ones throwing the tomatoes….and that doesn’t just occur in football. This will not change.
Ahhh Mac, your eloquent voice of reason has no place in this discussion, especially when that voice speaks truth. 🙂
Thank you. You stated very well what I was getting at. Hindsight geniuses indeed.
“Who knows? He might have fumbled the exchange, or lost the ball going in.”
Mac, please excuse me while I slam my hand in the car door. 🙂
Outstanding. Your last paragraph is 100% dead on….those rarely/never in a position of authority or decision making almost always are the most vocal afterwards.
I also saw a stat that said there was one interception thrown from the opponent’s one yard line all season. Yeah, it was the one that happened last night.
Anybody know if this is true?
I don’t know, but it is fair to say throwing a pass in an area where 22 players are within 10+ yards of each other is high risk. Lot of deflections that can happen on that slant, and defenders are never too far away. But shouldn’t Russell be aware of that and avoid a risky throw when the coverage is tight? All he had to do was hit a fan in the 3rd row above the end zone if his receiver did not have space around him. Why is there no blame for the execution? The clock would have stopped, they still had time for two plays of any type they wanted from the one yard line since they had a timeout.
My point is, the option chosen was one of many they had but none were a slam dunk as some would have you think. Carroll’s play call hit a wide open TD pass play from a similar position earlier in the game, and Lynch was stuffed inside the five earlier on a running play against the same personnel from NE. The play at the end of the game went horribly wrong, and everyone in the country now says, what a fool! Really? Exactly none would have said that had it worked for a TD. It was the result, not the call, and that should be obvious to anyone who watches much football. These debates are interesting and fill thousands of hours of time, I enjoy them until one guy says there was only one option, and he knows it to be true. As stated, throughout the game there were hundreds of times you could have debates about the offensive play called, defensive alignment, or personnel package used. Why focus on just one? Why did the Patriots utilize a prevent defense before the half that allowed a quick score by Seattle? I would have more questions for that coach than Carroll but it gets lost in the last minute drama.
So, calling a bad play is OK because it might have worked and if it did everybody would be praising the bad call? This may be the stupidest thing you’ve ever written and that is really saying something because many of your posts are downright idiotic. As for the rest of you guys that agreed with him, a pox on your houses for encouraging moronic behavior. I suggest all of you turn on your TV sets and watch any sports commentator show you choose and hopefully learn from Seattle’s mistake. Mac is too fargone and rigid in his self-righteousness to learn anything. A legend in his own mind.
Does anyone here trade financial instruments like s&p futures and options on those futures? If so , you can look at charts and easily see many patterns which look very easy to trade and make a lot of $. Now do it for real, putting real money on the line. It completely changes the way you think. This is like calling plays in hindsight and doing it for real. Two very different things. Let me know how you do in your trading.
Damn, thought you were going to give a great tip for my S&P options. I buy long range (LEAP) Puts as protection for the equities I still hold. Now you are telling me I need to be a Hindsight Genius to do that successfully? Dadgum, don’t want to join that “got all the answers” crowd but since they are positive their approach is fool proof, perhaps I should. Wonder if the traders will let me keep the dates open ended so I can exercise the puts when I wish.
I have always said if you could see tomorrow’s newspaper today, you could bat a thousand on stocks, lotteries, etc., now I can add perfect football coach to the list. Wish I had bought futures on Macallan once I got hooked on it….all those $75 dollar fifths of Macallan 25 are going for over a grand each now.
I hope I did not imply that I have “got all the answers” to the financial markets, because anyone who says that is 100% full of shit. I was just trying to give an example using something I know a lot about. Just saying things are always very clear and obvious in hindsight. But at the “hard right edge” of the chart things are not obvious, not easy, and not without risk. Kinda like big time football coaching.
I didn’t interpret it that way at all. I have not seen a post where you even got close to that level of arrogance. Just happened that I am in the middle of a LEAP against the S&P and have misplayed a few in the past for reasons of greed. I sincerely wish I could find a guru who could bat better than I have. Foresight of hindsight would be a wonderful thang.
I hear ya brotha. Being short the s&p has not been a money making position recently. If there is one thing I know for an absolute fact it is that greed is NOT good. I say that not from some moral code but because greed has cost me a LOT of money. After getting hit between the eyes with that 2 X 4 several times I have finally learned my lesson. Once you turn down the greed a little, things seem to go much smoother.
It was a good call. Mark Richt is the only coach to ever make bonehead calls. Ever.
I don’t think calling a pass at that point was inherently wrong. If you call a run that doesn’t result in a TD, they probably call the timeout and pass on 3rd down in order to have time for a 4th play. You are either calling a pass on 2nd or 3rd down.
The slant pattern pass was not something that made sense. Plus it was poorly thrown ball. It was high to the upper back side shoulder of the WR. The position of the ball gives the leverage and position advantage to the DB especially on the goal line where the DB is going to be up on the receiver to help on a run. Running a pattern like the corner fade or the same slant and out route that NE ran for go ahead TD is much safer call. It didn’t help that the SEA WR was beaten to the spot by the DB.
It wasn’t just calling a pass in that situation that was a bad call, it was the play that was called, too–a slant in the middle of the field, which would cause the QB to force the ball inside into a tight window with defensive players all around the receiver.
Which is what I said …
Lynch’s fumble rate (.014286) this year was slightly better than Wilson’s interception rate (.015486). However, the offense recovers roughly 50% of fumbles, so right off the bat Seattle had over a 100% greater chance of turning over the ball passing than running.
It’s not hindsight…it’s science. Passing = more yards/attempt, but also more turnovers and higher percentage of “big” negative plays (sacks, intentional grounding, etc).
Plus, Todd DAMN Gurley….
er, I meant BEAST MODE.
Apparently Lynch isn’t exactly Beast Mode when given the ball on the 1 yard line over his career. This year, for example, Lynch was 1 for 5 when given the ball on the 1, which is a 20% success rate. Couple this with the Pats D line, which is one of the best in the NFL, more and more the pass call wasn’t nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
Also, 112 NFL passes were thrown on the 1 yard line this season, with only 1 int. That 1 int ocurred last night.
That 20% success rate is one stat, but it’s much more complicated than that. You have to look at the probabilities of turnover which I showed it 2x higher with a pass. The situational stat you posted is interesting and a more complete analysis requires looking at fumbles in that situation, too (to see if the turnover advantage of running the ball holds at greater than 2:1).
You also have to look at the chances of a negative play for each situation. A sack losing 7 yards is way more critical than a run stuffed for a one yard loss. Holding stats, pass interference, intentional grounding, etc. all factor in.
Don’t trust me, though…read this (unless you’re going to fall back on some “it’s an art and not a science” argument no matter what):
“SEA should have run. Risk of sack, turnover, & pen outweighs risk of not having time for 4th down.”
You’re preaching to the converted, as I absolutely feel they should have run the ball. My point simply is that the call to throw it wasn’t as bad as everyone is talking it up to be. 112 passes were thrown on the 1 yard line in the NFL this year, with that play being the first that was int. Couple that with Lynch’s inability to get into the end zone from the 1 yard line, and again I can see the rationale for throwing there, regardless of the link/stats you provided.
I can see the rationale, too. And I thought Carroll did a great job explaining his rationale also. That being said, run the dang ball.
The above exchange was very good. I too would have run the ball but don’t think the call was terrible. I disagree with A10 that the correct call would necessarily be the answer to a complicated risk analysis equation. The other side could solve the same equation and know what you would call every play.
Agree, good discussion with no one insinuating there was only one option. You would also have to include in your risk analysis the personnel matchups, the likelihood of penalties (for and against) on the various options, the defensive alignment you expected, etc. because they change the percentages against the overall. None of us will ever know, all we do know was that play didn’t work due to poor execution by the QB, and a good job of coaching with the Patriot defense expecting that slant and having decided how they wanted it played. We will never know the other result, but it will be debated for a long time in the micro breweries of the Northwest.
Hindsight or not, run is probably the right call for both situations. That being said, I can’t stop thinking that the best pass options would have been UGA calling the slant and Seatlle calling the QB rollout.
Someone please get a comment from CMR on that play call
Actually, Bobo’s the guy who needs to comment.
Wasn’t Bobo’s last call as OC for Georgia a slant where the DB jumped the route?
Too much déjà vous last night.
Well I’m not a football genius but I have not heard many of the talking heads that were great football players go along with some of our football geniuses thought patterns. Even Tony Dungee who never says a bad thing about anybody, Mike Vick included, said it was a bad call. Michael Irvin and Deon both said it was the worst call they had ever seen. When great WR and DB’s say it was a bad call, I believe them. The Beast had scored the most TD this season, he had just gotten 3 yards down to the 1 1/2 and they had a TO. Every expert except for Pete Carroll apologists and Bobo defenders of the faith have gone on record as saying it was a terrible call. I think I’ll go with the experts.
Just another thought. With the game on the line you put the ball in the hands of your best athletes. In Seattle’s case that would be Lynch and running quarterback Russell Wilson, not average thrower Wilson and your third or fourth option receiver. If NE had nine bigs on the field like Carroll said then fake the handoff to Lynch and bootleg around the perimeter. If it blows up throw the ball away.
Probably wouldn’t have worked, that why no pays me to coach D-1 or NFL football.
"I don't know if we were awake to start. You know, it was a noon kick.” -- Stetson Bennett, Dawgs247, 9/25/22
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