They lie.

Lots of hurt feelings today from ungrateful wretches kids who found out after they put their names on the dotted line that they were sold a bill of goods about their position coach.

Like Texas defensive line coach Chris Rumph, who’s now on his way to Florida… to replace a coach who’s now on his way to the NFL.

And then there’s Corch.

“There was a talk,” Meyer said. “I had a long conversation with him and so did Stan. We’ve got to move forward.”

Yes, I’m sure he does.

Kids, if you’re highly sought after recruits, here is some good advice you should consider.

Most of all, don’t rush.  Signing day isn’t a deadline.  As Roquan Smith’s coach knows, there’s plenty of time after signing day to pull the trigger.  If that makes ESPN unhappy or some fans antsy, tough shit for them.  You’ve only got your own lives to live.

It’s a corrupt process.  We just learn about bits and pieces of the sleaze because sometimes it’s hard to keep every loose end under wraps.  The bottom line is that recruits have little leverage in the process, because that’s how the system is gamed.  And it’s why I have less and less sympathy for those who fret that giving kids greater freedom to move from one program to another would damage the sport.  Like the status quo is something to cherish.

Plenty more on this at mgoblog.

66 Comments

Filed under Recruiting

66 responses to “They lie.

  1. Jack Klompus

    Such a shitty thing to do to a kid. The same would happen with an early signing period, especially if it’s in Dec…. ‘cept you’ll see more HC’s and Coordinators leaving, not just position coaches.

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  2. joe

    Don’t remember the coaching movement being so blatantly obvious in year’s past. Maybe, in some perverse way, they are trying to force the ncaa to allow the players more freedom by being so wanton in their dealings. Or, maybe they are just like the ad’s, administrators and coaches and are just trying to set themselves up for life financially before this whole game of cards comes crumbling down?

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    • Bulldawg165

      “Or, maybe they are just like the ad’s, administrators and coaches and are just trying to set themselves up for life financially before this whole game of cards comes crumbling down?”

      This is where I’d bet my money. College coaches 10-15 years ago didn’t make nearly as much as they do today, and given the seemingly unsustainable nature of these charades I doubt coaches 10-15 years from now will make nearly as much either. It’s really the perfect time frame for college coaches and seems like something straight out of Gladwell’s “outliers.”

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      • I appreciate the Gladwell reference, but I would like to hear your logic on how coaches won’t make as much money 10-15 years from now.

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        • Bulldawg165

          Easy. Things are trending towards pay for play so there won’t be nearly as much money flowing through the coffers. Schools like UGA and such could afford the hit, but tons of other schools can’t and thus the market for coaching salaries will have to go down.

          Think about it. The NFL and NCAA football turn about the same profit, but the coaching salaries are the same despite the NFL only having 30+ teams while the NCAA has 120+. How is that possible? Easy. The NCAA gets free labor from the players and the NFL doesn’t. Take that advantage away and there’s no way coaching salaries can keep up at the collegiate level.

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  3. hassan

    You know…that’s really is the the leverage that they do have. Don’t make a big day out of “National Signing Day” and watch ESPN (and other media outlets) have a shit fit. The WWL will protect its interests and bring about positive change.

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  4. PTC DAWG

    Good stuff on that link

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  5. Bulldawg165

    It’s not the ethics part that surprises me, as people will do all sorts of things when you start throwing around the type of money that good coaches make.

    What’s shocking is that that these coaches honestly believe that doing this is what’s best for their program. I mean, pretty much every defensive lineman in Texas’s signing class is going to be extremely bitter and I’m sure plenty of other signees are going to lose trust in the coaches right off the bat as well. How do you have a good coach/athlete relationship when you do things like this?

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    • DawgPhan

      Agreed. Seems like you are going to have a lot of unhappy high school coaches that are going to not allow visits from the next guy, which is going to hurt your recruiting.

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  6. Man Urban is one slick, crafty, low down guy. Wonder what his father in law thought when he showed up at his house.

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    • DC Weez

      His future father-in-law probably rushed to take a shower.

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    • I have posted before that I have a friend who is a college head football coach. I talked to him this week and he commented again about wha a “piece of shit” Urban Meyer is as a human being and had would not “piss on (Meyer) if he was on fire.”

      That is from a fellow coach.

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      • Andrew

        Remember Fowler did a segment with Meyer and found out that all the B1G coaches despise the guy?

        He did the same thing several years ago. Flat out promise Omar Hunter (Buford 5 star DT) that his position coach wasn’t leaving. Of course he left after signing day. Charlie Strong was also in on that lie. Can’t believe parents don’t keep a track record of this.

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  7. Kevin Ramsey’s departure I believe was right after signing date. I hope I am right on this and there haven’t been other examples.

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  8. Do the hat ceremony but…..don’t sign LOI for a month or so.

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  9. Brandon (Version1)

    Why couldn’t the “contract” that is the NLI be set aside for fraud? It seems to meet the elements to me.

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    • Mr. Tu

      No. First, the contract is with a school, not the position coach. Further, even if you could show that the position coach staying put was a material part of the deal and you could prove he was promised the position coach would be there, it isn’t fraud unless the coach knew at the time he told the prospect that we was leaving-something that would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove

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      • Brandon (Version 1)

        I’m not so sure. Twitter, e-mail, Facebook, all communication to the kid or regarding him would be discoverable, people write the damnest things using those mediums. It would not surprise me in the slightest if there was enough there in the average situation to get by summary judgment and to a jury. And then my friend, all bets are off.

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        • Brandon (Version 1)

          If Irwin’s post below regarding contract language is legit (and I have no reason to believe its not), then disregard. Extra-contractual representations which are directly contradicted by the contract language, assuming there is an appropriate merger clause, can’t serve as a basis for fraud. As I say below much less sympathy for the kids whining if that’s the case. If the kids not going to read the NLI someone, whether its a parent or HS coach or someone should read the thing and see what’s in it and tell the kids. That’s pretty plain language.

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    • Irwin R Fletcher

      #1- Where is the kid going to get the legal fees? If he solicits $$, he probably loses his eligibility.
      #2- No way a law suit finishes before he could just transfer and sit out a year. He could try to get injunctive relief while the court process plays out, but my guess is that the NCAA wouldn’t let him go to another school even if he got relief.

      You know…because the NCAA is looking out for the student athlete and all.

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      • Irwin R Fletcher

        And there is the little matter of this phrase in the NLI:

        ” Coaching Changes. I understand I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or coach. If a coach leaves the
        institution or the sports program (e.g., not retained, resigns), I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI. I understand it is not uncommon for
        a coach to leave his or her coaching position”

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        • Brandon (Version 1)

          Well there you go. I have less sympathy for these kids crying foul when its right there in black and white.

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  10. JCDAWG83

    Kids will be stupid to sign a NLI on an early signing day if they like a position coach. Kids need to pick schools and not coaches, even head coaches can be gone within four/five years.

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    • Honestly, if you’re a fan of Georgia Tech, but you’re a classic drop back passer, you’d still pick the school over the coach?

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      • JCDAWG83

        Not what I’m saying. If a kid makes his choice based on a coach, he has a reasonable chance of being disappointed. If he makes his choice based on which school he likes, odds are, he will be happy for his time in college.

        I doubt a classic drop back passer would get much of a chance to play at tech, so it wouldn’t be an issue. Now, if you are a classic drop back passer and you have offers from Georgia and another pro style offense team and you really like coach Schott a lot, but you feel more at home and like the other school much better, you would probably be best served going to the other school. That was my point.

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        • sectionzalum

          i thin that’s bullshit because those coaches act on behalf of – and with the blessing of – the institution. and at the highest level. and if the school is gonna support assholes that manipulate teenagers i thin the distinction between committing to school over coach is the weakest of weak sauce.

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        • South FL Dawg

          “If he makes his choice based on which school he likes, odds are, he will be happy for his time in college.”

          But regular students transfer every term. I was one of them. Being a nobody I was able to make my own decision.

          Even “recruited walk-ons” are restricted from transferring to get a scholarship somewhere else, how crazy is that?

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        • gastr1

          But the kid can’t really choose the school over the coaches. The coaches are far more important to the kid’s playing time, learning, and professional future. Different coaches may implement a different scheme where the kid doesn’t play.

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      • Well said. We don’t enter into business relationships because we think the corporate headquarters are swell. It’s about relationships and trust. Even the most shallow high school kid has to be able to look a coach in the eye and feel comfortable. And that goes for the parent, too. So when the position coach that recruited them for months or years bails the day after the ink is dry, it’s devastating. Now you’re contractually obligated to a pretty building and whoever the university might hire. Flip it around. What if Bobo and Friend had left for CSU yesterday?

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  11. Hogbody Spradlin

    Drop Dead Corch.

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  12. Cojones

    n you get the amount settled to pay kids equitably between schools, let me know. When you get the time set for a coach to inform recruits ahead of time, let me know.

    Is it right for kids to transfer if they want to because their position coach is leaving? Yes, but when? Should all the people recruited to our O by Bobo be allowed to leave if they have been here and playing more than a year? No. But they can, although it wouldn’t serve their NFL plans at all.. No one is stopping them physically. If they want to follow Bobo, then he should have a scholly waiting for them.

    If allowed to leave after they are a part of a cohesive team I think it will destroy cfb. Tell me how it wouldn’t, please.

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    • South FL Dawg

      Your point about where to draw the line is well made but I think this issue should be addressed. Coaches change jobs faster than they used to 30 years ago. It’s not that it didn’t used to happen, but it happened less often. The scrutiny on CFB today also magnifies things. I think letting SA’s transfer without having to obtain a release is a step in the right direction. They still would have to sit out a year, but at least they would be able to receive a scholarship. It could even save coaches from having to process the bottom of the depth chart.

      Now you might think I’m crazy but I would be OK going further and allowing transfers to play right away. That would be simple to administer. While I think it would be a temptation for some players to transfer, the further along a player is in his college career, the more roots he has put down and it’s more likely he would stay. Also, the school players transfer to would have to have room under the 85 scholarship limit.

      I don’t see how it would destroy CFB, and besides anything put in can be amended later. For the record I don’t think any of this will happen but it’s what I would like to see.

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      • Cojones

        I refuse to take the position of defending the actions of sleazy coaches (and many here know my stance on Richt for being above board). My point is being trampled by the blind rush of “I care for the players and anything that you conjure that would be bad for cfb that comes out of this is null and void because you don’t care” crowd . Getting a thought of the future in edgewise in this rush appears useless.

        When the bottom of the depth chart goes elsewhere with your plays and the tendencies from practices, you will not have the troops who are backups (because the grass is greener with promises (lies) from elsewhere), you will have an influx of players who want to take their place and they may just have switched teams. Think about the confusion and worst that can happen before replying. Think of the teams that need our second string and go from there. I think that a wide-open free-for-all will ensue with parsing of words in any rules(?) done by players seeking legal eagles to help parse. I realize that it could take all day to surmise what will happen almost to the point that it shall happen. And legal eagles here recognize the difference between “will” and “shall”. And this is the weakest example that I could begin with.

        Why not just hold the liars and sombitches to task and flog their futures with the rules we have now and close the loopholes?. We complain here because we, as fans, are handcuffed and frustrated since the unconscionable aholes are bold and don’t care what you think of them, as long as they get their million(s).

        If a new model of what was the best-intentioned NCAA of long ago can be put forth, that will do a great deal for players and schools. Right now the shitheads are winning and smiling all the way to the bank while we twist in the wind of suborned rules and media folderal.

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    • Why would it “destroy college football?” When Saban tells a third stringer who is a part of a cohesive team that he is medically unable to play in order to free up a scholarship, does that “destroy college football?” When a coach elects not to renew a scholarship for a guy who is a part of a cohesive team, does that “destroy college football?” When Aaron Murray, a vital part of a cohesive team, exhausted his eligibility and went pro, did that “destroy college football?” When a starter who is a part of a cohesive team fails to make the grades in school to remain eligible, does that “destroy college football?”

      Why does something that lets players have some control over their destiny be the one thing that “destroys college football?”

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  13. sectionzalum

    what astonishes me is the nonchalance with which so many college coaches let that shit happen. as if their complicity (at best) in lying to teenagers isn’t a big deal. what complete assholes.

    for those that mock my insistence that i would take CMR over Saban the mercenary any day, look no further than the contrast between Saban’s grayshirting and girl-beating embraces & corch’s and Mini-Mora’s deceit, and then the approach CMR takes with ANY kid wanting to transfer: “life’s too short, I hope he’s happy wherever he goes.”

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  14. Bob

    I’d like to take the gun from that idiot so called Georgia fan and beat him over the head with it. Leave the damn kid alone. Let him make the decision that is best for him and then wish him good luck wherever he might go. That really pisses me off.

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  15. 69Dawg

    The real sad part about this is that the coaches, because of the limited scholarships they can always use the old we won’t hold a slot for you if you don’t sign on the NSD. Look at the Smith kid, if he wasn’t all world in the opinion of the coaches do you think they would hold a ship for him? No. So what is really happening is the only kids who can jack the schools around are the studs. The rest of the kids just scramble for the droppings. Once the NLOI is signed the kids are all the same. I was trying to think of another field that had such lying going on in recruitment and it dawned on me. I enlisted in the army back in 69 and every word out of the recruiters mouth was a lie. Once the paper is signed your butt is mine says Uncle Sam and apparently all the college coaches.

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    • Army recruiters were still lying in 96 when I joined, too.

      The problem is not that the position coaches leave, it’s that the head coaches like Meyer and Mora are not being honest with the recruits, which is bound to cause major trust issues in the future. These are supposed to be “molders of men” or whatever self righteous nonsense guys like Meyer are spouting these days, but they can’t be forthright with a teenager? That’s bush league bullshit and they should be ashamed, if such a thing was possible with these borderline sociopaths.

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    • stuckinred

      Ha, my recruiter in 66 was named “Dusty” Rhodes. What a line of shit he sold.

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  16. W Cobb Dawg

    If the Texas recruit truly wants out he should go public in the media and shame ut. Call the school prez out for the dick that he is. Make the situation so shitty for him that he’ll be running to rip up your LOI. Either play hardball with the pricks or lie down and let the man stomp on your rights.

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  17. Does anybody know whether the singung process is set in stone, whereby a commit must accept a school’s scholarship offer, subject to the terms of the letter of intent? Or, is there a permissible alternative contractual arrangement under which a commit would essentially offer to sign with a school, and the school would then be able to accept his offer, subject to the commit’s terms and conditions?

    I imagine the letters of intent are contracts of adhesion, but does anybody know whether this is the case?

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    • Connor

      Schools can offer scholarships to players without the player singing an LOI. There no connection between the two; a player signing one does NOT guarantee them a scholarship. The purpose of the thing is to end the recruiting process. Roquan Smith is probably getting a steady stream of calls right now. If he’d signed an LOI it would simply be against NCAA rules for another school to contact him. That’s the entire upside for the players.
      I think the senator linked a good article on how LOIs work are a while ago.

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  18. Many programs and coaches are trying to keep up with Saban. It’s no wonder that the NCAA changed rules(scholarship limit and guaranteed 4 year scholarship) mostly because of one former and one current Bammer HC. It’s also no wonder that Bammer’s two biggest rivals, UT and Auburn, are right there with them.

    Nothing new- it’s just that the programs and coaches most of us already knew about are becoming very blatant about it. The funny thing is seeing how fans of these programs sat on their high horses, bitching about Saban/Bammer, now waffle and rationalize and justify it to no end. Then again, CFB is ONLY about success and winning, right? RIIIIGHT???

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  19. It’s a corrupt process.

    Exactly.

    Every 4 and 5 star recruit should wait until deep into the Spring – however long is the absolute longest they can wait until they’d literally miss out on being able to sign up for the next year of school.

    National Signing Day, letters of intent, and pretty much every aspect of the process is designed to rush, trick, and screw kids over.

    Actually, the whole system is designed to screw them over. The fact they can’t immediately switch schools if their coach leaves, for example, is total bullshit.

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  20. Parent

    I still don’t understand why more kids aren’t using the financial aid agreement in August. The kid can sign up to 3, so he is basically just narrowing his list to the top 3. Once each school signs it, they must honor it. They cannot pull the offer. Then, why bother signing on NSD; just see what shakes out and choose one of your 3 a little later. It also is such good protection for the mid range 3 star guys like ours was. His school hired a new coordinator before signing day, and in the new scheme, the position he was recruited to play doesn’t even exist. It wouldn’t have mattered because he can play in areas of need for them and enrolled early, but he had that agreement just in case. That’s why I can’t completely blame the schools in cases like the Louisville situation, because the HS coach should have asked for it to protect the kid. Placeholder offers are really common; offer the kid, but they can only commit (or stay committed) if other things don’t work out. The financial aid agreement, or simply asking for one, gives kids leverage and much needed clarity.

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    • Mark

      The financial aid agreement is only allowed for kids that enroll early.

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      • Parent

        So, if the coaches lie about when and if they will be there, why shouldn’t all the kids start saying the could be eligible to graduate early and go ahead and ask for the agreement? It may not be binding if they don’t enroll early, but they will definitely find out where the school really stands on August 1st. Either they offer it up or start dancing.

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  21. PatinDC

    My idea. A coaching change blackout window,

    No coaching changes, unless filling an existing vacancy, for one month following national signing day.
    If this rule is broken, then all recruits from that program have the one-time opportunity to transfer prior to spring practice, without penalty.

    Problem solved 😉
    Next…

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    • A commit can sign a NLOI with a school and then decline to sign a scholarship with the school, but he cannot sign another scholarship with an NCAA school. He goes to that school or does not play NCAA football for a year.

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  22. Dawgoholic

    An NLI is a contract. Contracts are invalid if procured by fraud. Not sure why someone has not challenged this in a situation where a coach lied about whether he would return.

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  23. ASEF

    First, LOL at the “A lot of B1G schools are over 85 right now, including tOSU at 91, but it’s smart, humane roster management when our schools do it, not anything Sabanesque.” This is why I loathe B1G athletics. Self righteous delusional whiners. An entire conference of Auburn fans.

    As for the kids, get it in writing. It’s not legally binding, but a coach who asked to.put his potential lie in ink can certainly process short-term gain, long-term loss reasoning. No.one wants to play for a proven liar.

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