Bob Stoops, Hugh Freeze feels your pain.

Ugly story here about how a racist chant from members of a University of Oklahoma fraternity captured on video has led to the shuttering of the campus fraternity by its national organization and an investigation from the school.

The reason I mention it here is because of the interesting reactions it garnered from members of the Oklahoma football team.  If the sentiment mentioned in the following tweet isn’t the essence of what college life is like for many of them, I don’t know what is:

Maybe, but it doesn’t sound like they let you stay, either.

Don’t think this won’t come up on the recruiting trail.  Just ask Ole Miss about that.

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UPDATE:  Like it or not, it’s a football story.

Good for Stoops.

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UPDATE #2:  Quotes, too.

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UPDATE #3:  As I said, it’s a football story.

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UPDATE #4:  This is the way to respond to prejudiced dumbasses.

160 Comments

Filed under General Idiocy, Recruiting

160 responses to “Bob Stoops, Hugh Freeze feels your pain.

  1. Hogbody Spradlin

    As a member of an ethnic group whose history would be improved if slavery and discrimination were the worst things that happened to it, I find these ‘burn it down and salt the earth’ reactions are an over-reaction. We all suffer hurts and offenses in this life.

    However, that’s the way things are, and the fraternity crap is doubly stupid. Once because of it’s casually hateful content, and once because there’s some things you just oughta know better.

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    • I think you’re right. But I also think that the “‘burn it down and salt the earth’ reactions” are what make this such an obvious sell on the recruiting trail. It’s not fair to Stoops, but he’ll still be stuck dealing with the ramifications.

      The best thing that could happen for him would for the school to come down on this without weaseling. Unfortunately, schools tend to weasel.

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      • Hogbody Spradlin

        I’m not sure if I’m saying something different from you or not, but to me the SAE national reaction of suspending the charter and David Boren’s reaction of promising swift retribution are the ‘burn it down and salt it reactions’ I was thinking of. Everybody elbows everybody else out of the way to show the most moral outrage.Those reactions would be the only thing Bob Stoops can point to while recruiting, to counter everybody else saying O’KKK’lahoma.

        I don’t perceive that schools weasel much on these things. Sry being flip, but when the cause is on the approved list and the villain appropriately dastardly, schools move like blitzkrieg. Think about the Virginia gang rape thing.

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        • I am. And Duke. In both cases, the school hadn’t done its homework and shot from the hip.

          Oklahoma doesn’t need to do PC here. It needs to conduct a thorough, open investigation of what happened and respond accordingly.

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          • Hogbody Spradlin

            A thorough, open, investigation would certainly be the optimal thing, but I truly think going PC would blunt the recruiting impact better. It’s that kind of world.

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            • Scorpio Jones, III

              HB and Bluto, I would love to contribute something meaningful to this discussion, but you guys have said just about everything that is meaningful to me.

              I am too old to be shocked, but, I hope, never too old to be saddened by ignorance and bigotry in any form.

              Thanks guys…what a great place to come and exercise (or exorcise) my shrinking grey matter.

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            • jack

              Sad to say it is my fraternity here, but I don’t think shutting them down and kicking everybody off campus is an over-reaction at all.

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              • Cojones

                Agreed. And since the National SAE Hq took their charter, they all are left to themselves to sing Kum-ba-ya by a campfire in the woods. National Chapters will repudiate them as well. It’s good that the President of OU threw them out as students, not as a fraternity. Then he banned their chapter from the campus. Any SAE wanting to start a new chapter can, but these guys are toast as an individual representative group. Consider that the University, the President of OU, coaches, student body and the national SAE representation have all been embarrassed by the ugly stain of an anachronistic thought expressed through young unthinking minds and one can easily share their chagrin.

                My Southern fraternity chapter took the white clause out of our chapter charter in the very early sixties at a national meeting. Surprised a great number of Northern chapters, but none were so proud as the members of our fraternity who brought the question up. Received a letter from my chapter during my first year of Service to the effect that they had pledged and admitted a black brother to Beta Kappa. They described the attributes he displayed for being worthy of our fraternal friendship and hoped everyone would return before he graduated in order to validate their wisdom. The young lion in me smiled approval.

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          • Mayor

            I appreciate what you and the other posters have said and I agree with those statements. That said, nobody seems to be too worried about the vandalizing of the SAE house that took place and was likely perpetrated by some small minds that are equally demented. I, like Hogbody, feel that SAE national over-reacted by closing down the chapter. How about all the Oklahoma SAEs who did not participate in the chant and who do not feel the way those depicted on the film feel? Why should they be punished? The correct way to proceed is to identify the wrongdoers and punish THEM. This whole “group” punishment thing smacks more of “hey, look at us–we’re not like that” than trying to do the right thing in a fair way IMHO.

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            • Dog in Fla

              “Why should they be punished?”

              Excellent point.
              When the Muslim Brotherhood does it, punish the whole religion.
              When Black brothers do it, punish the whole race.
              When White brothers do it, suspend the OU Chapter.

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            • What fresh hell is this?

              ” How about all the Oklahoma SAEs who did not participate in the chant and who do not feel the way those depicted on the film feel? Why should they be punished?”

              For example, the poor SOB who took this video. Pretty sure they will figure out who was in the seat taking the video. Hope he or she is going to be alright.

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    • Doug

      I’m a little conflicted about the “right” way to react to stuff like this, because on the one hand, I hate seeing these things devolve into an “I can be more outraged about this on social media than you” contest. When we pat ourselves on the back and think “There, I’ve struck a blow for racial equality” just because we shamed some random frat guy on Twitter, we’re not actually accomplishing much of substance.

      But I don’t think “that’s the way things are” is productive, either. If it’s not about outrage or shame, it’s at least about a modicum of respect for your fellow man. Apparently these frat tools have grown up in such a bubble of privilege and self-satisfaction that they think tossing around the N-word and joking about the indiscriminate murder of black people isn’t that big a deal, and one way or another, they need to learn that it’s 20-fricking-15 and yes, it is a big deal. Whether that happens through a fraternity suspension or a barrage of public criticism on the Internet (or both), it needs to happen.

      As for your remark about Stoops being stuck with the ramifications, Senator, I wonder, does it seem to you like we don’t hear an awful lot from coaches about this sort of thing? Obviously this is the kind of public-relations hornet’s nest that they might be very hesitant to get involved in, but I don’t know — seems like if a guy with the stature of Stoops or Saban or whoever took a stand and said, “Cut this shit out, we’re better than this,” that might snap some people to attention.

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      • As for your remark about Stoops being stuck with the ramifications, Senator, I wonder, does it seem to you like we don’t hear an awful lot from coaches about this sort of thing?

        Outside of Ole Miss’ very public soul searching – and remember, complaints about campus attitudes towards symbols there were being heard from head coaches all the way back to Billy Brewer – I think you’re right.

        And I do expect Stoops to say something about this, both because he lives in the real world and because he lives in the recruiting world.

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    • dawgfan

      Amen Hogbody. What do you expect from a bunch of drunk college kids on a bus? Stupid moronic crap. Hopefully they will grow up, mature, and become solid citizens! Everybody wants to feel outrage and be a victim when it suits their politics. Rebulicans, democrats, liberal, conservative, white, and black are all guilty. Did anyone get hurt, have to go to the hospital, or get arrested? This isn’t even news.

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      • What do you expect from a bunch of drunk college kids on a bus?

        If one of my kids had done that, I would have been appalled and there would have been consequences. Fortunately, mine were raised better than that.

        So I guess I’m saying I expect better.

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        • 81Dog

          this is no rap on you, Senator, but I suspect most of those kids were raised better, too. You don’t know what you don’t know about your kids. Also, recall that the stupidity of kids increases exponentially as the number of them increases mathematically.

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          • this is no rap on you, Senator, but I suspect most of those kids were raised better, too.

            Think I’ll have to disagree with you on this one, 81. It’s not like they were on a vacation from their normal thoughts and feelings.

            I didn’t belong to a fraternity in my undergraduate days, but everyone at UVa knew which frat was peopled by the most prejudiced folks.

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            • Mr. Tu

              Not to defend the indefensible, but there is merit to the tribalism, group think mentality that takes over in such settings. Would these young people have independently got up and sang that song? Were some of them even thinking “This is so wrong,..” but going along with the wildly inappropriate joke? Lastly, how many of them were actually singing along? I recall being in a Fraternity as a Junior and Senior and getting pissed off and embarrassed for having to pay for the sins of a few younger jackasses whose behavior got the whole group in trouble.

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              • If “these young people” didn’t know what they were getting into when they joined the fraternity, you might have a point. My guess is they knew exactly what kinds of people they chose to socialize with, though.

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                • 81Dog

                  I’m not defending what they did, in any way. You do stupid things, you have to own the results. And (just my opinion), but UGA had plenty of frat boys in the 70s and 80s who would happily look down there noses at anyone who didn’t fit their notion of what a college man should be. It wasn’t limited to race, either. I’m sure if you stroll the halls at Westminster or Lovett or Harvard or Morehouse or where ever, you can find plenty of folks who consider themselves better than people who aren’t just like them.

                  Doesn’t make it right, and it looks like they’re going to suffer the consequences. But anyone who thinks being a judgmental dumbass is limited to rich frat boys in Norman is kidding themselves, and perhaps should not rest so easily up on the high horse.

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                • Cojones

                  Your “opinion” should lay off the “rich frat boys” and “happily look down their noses” remarks. Fraternities are about brotherhood, but that can be twisted by numerous people inside and outside fraternities to have other meanings. Masons, Moose Clubs, Smoking Clubs, various teams, etc represent a congregation of like-minded people and none deserve those kinds of remarks as to who they are. My fraternity gave out two “scholarships” because they wanted to join and didn’t have the money. One of my particular reasons for joining mine was because they were openly friendly with no pretenses and the frat house room and dues together proved cheaper than my dorm room rental. A few of my brother’s families were listed in Dunn and Bradstreet, but we didn’t mind if they didn’t. Some frats were said to require that (listed in Dunn and Bradstreet) for entrance, but they never got my interest nor did I interest them. Sorta like playing for a team of mostly 4 & 5-star players vs one with no higher than 3 stars. Who gives a shit, they are your team.

                  You need to look with different eyes at fraternities that appeal to some of us who require the “Our Gang” mentality vs your rugged individualism and pity us poor social miscreants. I had described my fraternity to friends after service when someone remarked over a bridge game one night that they had just seen a movie containing some of the individuals and events in my descriptions. The movie? “Animal House”.

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                • 81Dog

                  way to completely miss the point. I didn’t say, and didn’t imply, that “all frat boys are evil,” or that “rugged individualists” or “social miscreants” who aren’t in frats are somehow noble. If you had to be in a frat to feel good about yourself, fine by me. You don’t even know if I was in one or not, or why I was or wasn’t.

                  If you were at UGA in the 70s or 80s, you should be able to admit that plenty of frat boys were spoiled assholes. Not all. Not most. But not just one or two. Did they have a monopoly on being spoiled assholes? Not at all. There were spoiled, or hypersensitive, assholes in every stratum of UGA life that I experiences. You hang with who you hang with? Who cares? I knew plenty of sharp frat guys and sharp non frat guys. It isn’t the group you belong to that makes you sharp, a point that seems lost on the “I’m an (fill in the Greek letter club of your choice), so I’m a superior life form” types.

                  Lots of people look down on people who aren’t like them. It isn’t the exclusive province of frat douchebags, of which there were and probably are plenty. Most of the frat guys I knew were good people, but to pretend they all were is just stupid.

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                • Cojones

                  Unfortunately, you missed all my points. They were fairly low key for me and I insensitively racheted your feelings up, but unfortunately, like you, I’ve been around too many “spoiled assholes”. They just didn’t rub me the same way they seemed to have rubbed you. Like Animal House we just had stupid fun. Except maybe for the Pig Party. But the Blind Pig Party made up for it. And 18 yr old Mac Davis, an honorary member who wasn’t even enrolled in school there, was officially our “music appreciation” guy because, prior to becoming famous, he had a band with three other musicians who played our parties at $40/gig. Just fun. Leading frat row and the campus to vote for our candidate in naming our new buffet student food center the “Alfred J. Pennypacker Memorial Hall” was just plain highjinkery fun. Of course, after they discovered who he was, they rescinded the vote and named it other than “Ulcer Gulch” as it later became known to the student body. No stuffy assholes around for the intramural football game that crowned us campus underchampions to Sigma Nu(those may have been the guys you seem to think looked down their nose), but I digress in telling you how much fun we had and that my frat was unlike anything you have come close to describing as fraternity guys. We really were the social miscreants and were totally proud of the label in an Animal House sort of way.

                  We didn’t have a “down” or “up” way of looking at anyone and we cared less what anyone thought of us. We just had a lotta good-natured fun because we were a fraternity, you see.

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  2. JCDAWG83

    While it was stupid on the frat’s part, I don’t imagine many football prospects enroll at OU, or really any college, expecting to become members of SAE. I don’t think it will be a big deal at all in the big picture of recruiting. There will be more outrage by liberal white people than anyone else.

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    • … I don’t imagine many football prospects enroll at OU, or really any college, expecting to become members of SAE.

      You think any of ’em expect to have classmates chanting about lynching?

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      • JCDAWG83

        No, but let’s be honest, black athletes already know they are seen as something of mercenaries on most college campuses. I don’t think black kids are dumb enough to think that because they are given a scholarship to play a sport, they will suddenly be embraced and loved as an equal in all things by the white kids at the college. I imagine most of the SAEs involved have grown up in a very white world with very little contact with black people. I guess what I’m saying is; this isn’t terribly shocking to me.

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        • I don’t think black kids are dumb enough to think that because they are given a scholarship to play a sport, they will suddenly be embraced and loved as an equal in all things by the white kids at the college.

          That’s how you would characterize this situation? Jeebus.

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    • “Outrage?” Such emotion should be reserved for shocking situations. For this situation the appropriate reaction would be “I told you so.” Of course, the nimbleness of the modern white racist should not go unnoticed moving from: “there is no racism” to “so what?” with remarkable ease depending on the situation. You want to cure the problem of racism? What racism? You want to discuss this racism caught on tape? No one that matters really cares do they?

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    • 3rdandGrantham

      “There will be more outrage by liberal white people than anyone else.”

      I would hope there would be condemnation equally, regardless of one’s political affiliation. I’m certainly not a liberal, but if speaking out against vile speech like this immediately gets me labeled as such, then I guess I’ll have to wear the liberal badge of honor then (whether accurately applied to me or not).

      Why does seemingly everything have to be politically motivated or stigmatized in some fashion? Whatever happened to simply doing the right thing and forgetting all the political labeling nonsense?

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      • Fox News. Talk radio. It foments us v. Them. We=good; they=bad. It is no longer about intellectual disagreement it’s about saving the country from liberals who hate it and are out to destroy it. You get two things on Fox News regarding liberals: patronizing their naivety or attacking their patriotism. It creates automatons who can’t see anything outside that narrow framework.

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        • 3rdandGrantham

          While I mostly agree, I personally witness the same quixotic, narrow minded views on the left as well. And just as Fox News panders to those on the right, MSNBC does the same on the left. Rachel Maddow and Al Sharpen….I don’t think any further comment is necessary.

          I have no dog in the fight as I abhor both repubs and dems, and my overall views tend to be a blend of each. But if you think such divisiveness only (or mostly) originates from the right only, come spend a week with me in the liberal bastions of C’ville and D.C. where I live/work.

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          • I find that life is a lot saner if you don’t get your news from cable TV.

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          • I think there is a difference in tone and tenor. I know that most people hate nuance and can’t understand it. However, what I see from the left is: I disagree with you and our disagreements stem from your lack of understanding, compassion, experience etc… This can come off as arrogance to be sure. However, I never hear A left wing commentator attack the patriotism of those he/she disagrees with or suggest that thier opponents are traitors out to destroy the country. Listening to an aggressive lefty you get the impression that the liberal would like to jam his opponents face into a book. Listening to the most aggressive right wingers you are left with impression that they’d like to put the liberals up against the wall. I don’t think that difference is subtle. And I don’t agree much with either side but I do see one as much more corrosive to political debate. Olbermann was an unfortunate exception to the general rule. Once he went o’reilly for the left I stopped watching msnbc and haven’t been back. Propaganda isn’t good for anyone.

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            • 3rdandGrantham

              Simply sharing from my own experience, in which I’m completely open minded as again I’m neither left or right, again I’d say its pretty much equally vitriolic on both sides.The general shtick on the right indeed ends up involving something to do with hating freedom, being un-patriotic, et al. However, those on the left have their own little shticks too, in which they’ll scream that you’re a greedy 1%er, hate the environment, an evil corporatist shrill, and so forth. It’s all really the same thing if you stop and think about it.

              Take the Occupy movement, for instance. Here they openly yelled absurdities to select business types simply because they walked by wearing suits and sport coats. A few years back, some group thought it would be a novel idea to put “reduce your carbon footprint” bumper stickers on the back of every truck/SUV (including mine) in a downtown parking lot. I don’t recall any similar such interactions with right wing groups, other than an occasional religious leaflet during my years at UGA.

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              • Some of that is true though. What you do about is the issue. Very few people engaged in politics hate the country. That’s not a fact based argument but purely designed to get a visceral, emotional reaction with no basis in fact. It is true that the environment is under threat, wages are stagnant and a greater share of wealth is at the top than ever before. Agree or disagree about whether that’s a good thing but don’t say someone is shrill because they point out uncomfortable facts though. Who are the Americans who hate America? It’s just mindless drivel stirring a pot of demagogues. That’s the difference. I can one up with policies you may or may agree with that deal with the complaints you cite. How do you deal with traitors? See the difference? One has solutions in the electoral process the other requires execution squads. They aren’t arguments of the equal character no matter the volume or your hostility towards them. Keep in mind that the problem with engaging intellectually on these issues means very few people benefit from status quo. The solution is to scream like hell to try to get to 50% + 1. You avoid the merits when you can’t win on them. That’s not a right/wrong comment it’s a win/lose reality.

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        • Hogbody Spradlin

          Dreck that goes both ways. Period.

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          • Dog in Fla

            In a world where the Fox News disinformation outlet has five times as many viewers as the sickling MSNBC network does and where the SAE brother are in the front of a bus with no incoming, the “both sides do it” world is a world of fantasy and make believe

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            • 3rdandGrantham

              NBC, ABC, CBS. Heck even CNN. I’d submit that the Big 3 certainly pull their liberal leaning weight in evening out any advantage Fox enjoys over the relatively meager MSNBC. Not to mention vast majority of newspapers in this country, which are unabashedly liberal leaning if not hard left. TV and media programing in general is left-leaning.

              FWIW, I’m a WaPo subscriber, which isn’t NYT, Chicago Trib or LA Times left, but certainly still left nonetheless in the grand political spectrum.

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            • Hogbody Spradlin

              Fla. your statement seems to be that Fox has more viewers. Even if true, that doesn’t make it more, or less, biased, slanted, opinionated, etc. than the opposing outlets.

              I know it’s an article of faith among a segment of populace that MSNBC, New York Times, CBS, etc. speak the capital T Truth, and Fox does nothing but lie. Sorry, both sides are about the same.

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              • Even if true, the people who don’t watch Fox News are left better informed. So the quality and penetration of the lies are much greater even if you want to debate volume.

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                • 3rdandGrantham

                  Not a Fox News guy at all…actually hardly any TV for me other than sports and The Weather Channel. But when I do occasionally catch a few snippets here and there, there seemingly is always a liberal contributor or two on the program to help balance out any discussion taking place. And not just the same 1-2..I’m guessing they employ 15-20 of them in total. I’d venture to guess that MSNBC doesn’t have anywhere near the number of conservative commentators, but who knows.

                  I checked into a hotel the other day with Fox News blaring on a big screen tv in the lobby, and some Dem commentator (Kirsten ???) was really going at it with the conservative guest. So, in that small slice, it was nice to see a balance sides/views lobbying silos back and forth. I’d much rather see that than a panel of 4-5 of the same ideology all laughing in agreement with one another.

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                • Hogbody Spradlin

                  Sry Dreck, Fox News watchers are no worse or better than the competing networks. They’re just as informed as you.

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                • Hogbody Spradlin

                  A study! Well you believe what you want.

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                • Cojones

                  Attaboy Hogbody! It’s a bitch having to read to get your info. Why don’t you just read it, question the reason and reasoning of those who wrote it with the facts you have that oppose the findings of a study. Wouldn’t that be intellectually honest? After all, Derek did answer your opinion about Fox News watchers and he used a study. How in hell can anyone put value into your remarks if you weasel sideways?

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                • Derek

                  Avoid all books, tv, the internet and radio because its all biased bullshit, right. What liar told you not to believe in studies? Do you ever think that the person that told you to ignore studies was biased? Do you believe in the theory of gravity or is the verdict still out on that one?

                  Those who essentially say that there are no facts just useless opinions are maddening to me. Just give up and shoot yourself if there is nothing worthy of belief. Whats the fucking point? Are you really a person? Who can say? Maybe you are a machine? Maybe I’m Hogbody and I have a split personality. Just fucking stupid to act like you can be aloof and everything is just horseshit lies. There IS a reality in this world. If you don’t like a study say why you think its wrong. Don’t just say study=wrong.

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              • Dog in Fla

                Bluto has more viewers than MSNBC

                I can remember – before it became the Daily Worker – when the New York Times employed and published Dick Cheney’s mouthpiece in the run-up to the invasion.

                America, Heck Yeah!

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        • 81Dog

          I guess you cant see MSNBC from your high horse. Can we all just agree this behavior is deplorable, and leave the finger pointing politics out of it?

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          • Everything is politics. What happened in that bus is politics. The schools reaction is politics. The protests today are politics. You can’t avoid politics when discussing these issues. They can’t be disentangled from politics. There is a political bent in this country that nurtures and protects these attitudes and they come out. Sometimes it comes out of someone’s mouth and sometimes it comes out of the end of a policemans duty weapon. You can’t close your eyes, mouth and stick your fingers in you ears and make it stop. You’ve got to deal with it until it’s goes away for all times. We have to see each other as no better and no worse for all purposes at all times. As a country we don’t, but we’re getting better everyday. One of the reasons is that we deal with the issues. Sometimes clumsily. Sometimes wrongly but we are always moving to that promised land. No doubt we’ll get there. Eventually. We got no choice.

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            • 81Dog

              When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I guess what you’re saying is, you’re a tool. I agree!

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      • JCDAWG83

        Not a political comment. I mean that I think black people will not be shocked and outraged by a group of privileged, white, frat pricks using a racial slur. I think the breathless conversation will be led by the race hucksters who think there might be a buck in it and the liberal, white guilt ridden, white people who will look to show how enlightened they are. The rest of the world will not be shocked it happened.

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        • Dog in Fla

          “I think the breathless conversation will be led by the race hucksters who think there might be a buck in it and the liberal, white guilt ridden, white people who will look to show how enlightened they are.”

          Such as race huckster liberal comrades Bob Stoops and David Boren

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        • In curious. What do think they reaction ought to be? It sounds as if a collective shoulder shrug would suffice for your tastes.

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  3. 3rdandGrantham

    This is yet another case in which the word “racist” was used incorrectly in relation to some sort of insensitive incident. Based on the definitions of racist, bigotry, and prejudice; bigotry would be the correct definition to apply in this case. For shock value purposes or otherwise, you rarely if ever hear anyone use the word “prejudice” or “bigot/bigotry” anymore; instead, any/all cases of racial insensitivity is immediately labeled with the much more harsh “racist” term. I’d venture to guess that 98% of Americans couldn’t accurately define racist or differentiate between any of the three aforementioned words.

    With all that said, this is utterly disgusting, and I don’t believe those frat guys have any clue as to the consequences that will result from their sheer ignorance and stupidity. If any of those SAE guys that were not involved had any intelligence and decency whatsoever, they would resign immediately and completely remove themselves from such a vile, bigoted organization.

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    • ClydeBoogie

      Spot on 3rd.

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    • Mayor

      I agree with your analysis 3rdie but not your solution. The guys who are guilty should be kicked out and the SAE members that were not involved who are presumably “intelligent and decent” should remain in the fraternity.

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      • Dog in Fla

        I’ll take “Party Bus” for $100

        Answer Clue: SAE members that were not involved who are presumably “intelligent and decent”

        Question Answer: What is a conundrum?

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        • Mayor

          I assume you are being tongue in cheek with this DIF and are not suggesting that innocent SAEs who did not participate in the singing should be punished. Are you? It is very simple: You investigate. You start by identifying those who were in the video. Then those SAEs who were on the bus. Then women/dates who were on the bus (I saw at least one). You question them. They will probably be scared sh!tless, particularly those that didn’t sing along but were just there. Someone will tell the truth about who, what, where and why. In the meantime, an investigation into who spray painted the SAE house might be in order, too.

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    • Bulldawg165

      Agree on all accounts.

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  4. DawgPhan

    Can’t wait for all the “hot takes on racism from white guys with at least one black friend” we are going to get today.

    Sure to include such classics as “boys will be boys”, “Just an isolated incident” and everyone’s favorite “SAE had a black member”.

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    • No discussion about race would be complete without crime statistics. Keep in mind though that those who include crime stats in such discussions aren’t racists. They are simply communicating that they have a very good reasons to be racist should they decide to be at some later date.

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      • Bulldawg165

        Keep in mind though that those who include slavery, Jim Crow and segregation in discussions about current events aren’t racists toward whites. They are simply communicating that they have a very good reasons to be racist toward whites should they decide to be at some later date.

        FIFY 😉

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        • Well, I am white so I’m not racist towards whites. Moreover I think that any group of people are capable of killing or exploiting another on the basis of racial differences. The problem with people is that differences mean something that they shouldn’t. We shouldn’t fear someone because they look different, talk different or believe in a different God. Yet we do it all the time. Reconciliation and atonement requires a recognition of these sins against our fellow man and the humility that comes with it. You can acknowledge this or deny it as you wish. Ignoring any part of the debate, including crime statistics, will not get us any closer to trust and harmony. I do say that if you are bringing crime stats to the debate you owe an explanation of relevance. Why are those stays meaningful to you?

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          • Bulldawg165

            “Why are those stats meaningful to you?”

            Because racism goes both directions yet the only type that gets any attention is white on black, even though the reverse seems to be just as common in proportion to the population. ALL racism is wrong. No form or direction is more wrong than another form/direction simply because of past events that very few living people played a part in (or even witnessed for that matter).

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            • Black on white crime is not racism or even prejudice or bigotry. Very few crimes are committed against whites because they are white. The truck driver (Denny?) in wake of the Rodney King officer acquittal comes to mind. Most crime is to get money and is not race based. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s rare. To say that blacks commit crimes against whites out of racial animus is pretty out there IMHO. We’ve had a few may turner moments but they aren’t the norm in this country and certainly pale in comparison to race based crimes by whites against blacks.

              Like

              • Bulldawg165

                most of them aren’t race based, you’re right. But per justfacts.com, while black males commit violent crimes against whites 40x more often than white males do against blacks, a white person is 127x more likely to be charged with a hate crime following an interracial attack. Maybe I’m just biased because of how vehemently I disagree with the concept of hate crimes in general, but don’t those numbers seem just a little out of whack to you?

                Like

                • Derek

                  Statutorily required punishment based upon racial motive is stupid. Hate crime legislation is dumb. We agree on something. Should a judge take it into account when its there? Sure. Crime stats no matter how titled have little to with racism in this country with the exception that they make racists feels good about being racist. It justifies the existing prejudice.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  “Crime stats no matter how titled have little to with racism in this country with the exception that they make racists feels good about being racist. It justifies the existing prejudice.”

                  I’m sorry, but are you implying that anyone who brings up such things is a racist? As in, it’s racist to point out ills performed by blacks against whites, but it’s perfectly acceptable to bring up ills performed by whites against blacks? I hope I’m misunderstanding what you mean, because otherwise that’s quite the double standard. If one has a place in the conversation then the other certainly does as well.

                  Also, I respect your opinion but we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the relevance of interracial violence and sexual assault. Those are pretty significant offenses and are far more egregious than a group of people chanting racial slurs. If we’re talking oppression in the 21st century, one is incredibly more “oppressive” than the other.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  I’ve never heard anyone inject crime stats into a discussion about race who wasn’t biased. The reason is that crime is irrelevant despite your efforts to make it meaningful. If I said that the Nazis killed six million Jews would you say, well Jews did do X? No because no matter what they did they didn’t deserve the holocaust. Moreover, any statistics on Jewish crime doesn’t make them just as bad as the Germans and it certainly doesn’t make them as racist as the Nazis.

                  Its not relevant. Its a smokescreen. Nobody is saying that crime generally is irrelevant or unimportant. The race of the perpetrator is just as unimportant as the race of the victim. Black people aren’t racists because they commit crimes against whites.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  “The race of the perpetrator is just as unimportant as the race of the victim”

                  Really? Then what made lynchings racist? And why is James Earl Ray Jr a racist but not Demarquise Elkins?

                  Also, invoking Godwin’s law is a sure sign that you’re reaching with your analogy?

                  Like

                • 81Dog

                  um, wasn’t Derek the one who injected racial crime stats into this discussion?. QED, amigo.

                  Like

              • Bulldawg165

                by the way derek, I appreciate the thoughtful discussion today.

                Like

              • . Denny stopped in the middle of the street. Antoine Miller opened the truck door, giving others the chance to pull Denny out. Another man, Henry Keith Watson, then held Denny’s head down with his foot. Denny was kicked in the abdomen by an unidentifed man. Two other unidentified men who had led a liquor store break-in earlier that day hurled a five-pound piece of medical equipment at Denny’s head and hit him three times with a claw hammer. Damian Williams then threw a slab of concrete at Denny’s head and knocked him unconscious.

                Next time he is asked to hand over his wallet I bet he listens.

                Although the Denny beating received great publicity, Williams and his companions also assaulted and beat several Asian and Latino motorists who were passing through the area.

                The defense began pleading on September 20, making a case for unpremeditated assault. Faal began by challenging the video evidence and portrayed Williams as a victim of poverty and racism.

                Sigh
                http://www.eurweb.com/2012/04/damien-football-williams-who-beat-trucker-reginald-denny-in-la-riots-breaks-silence/

                Like

              • 81Dog

                I’m sure the white victims of black crime, as well as the black victims of black crime, appreciate your subtle ability to nuance the root cause with a single gross generalization. All you need to do to make the picture complete is to snottily upbraid everyone who is the white victim of a crime by a black guy by telling them to “check their privilege.”

                Thank god we have deep thinkers like you to discern the motives of white racists and black criminals from the (probable) comfortable safety of your keyboard. I’m in awe.

                Like

        • Scorpio Jones, III

          Found that post yet, or you just going to admit you are a liar?

          Like

          • Scorpio Jones, III

            This is a mistake, but, what the hell?

            ” No form or direction is more wrong than another form/direction simply because of past events that very few living people played a part in (or even witnessed for that matter).”

            “that very few living people played a part in (or even witnessed for that matter.)”

            Amazing.

            Like

            • Bulldawg165

              slavery ended 150 years ago, the nail in the jim crow coffin was hammered in over 40 years ago (although the more significant nails were hammered in far earlier, some several decades earlier), and the civil rights movement ended 50 years ago. That makes it pretty difficult for most people today to have been a part of (or witnessed) any of slavery and parts of jim crow (the earliest nail was in 1917), and only people currently over 50 were even alive during the civil rights movement. I’d say it’s an accurate statement 😉

              Like

              • Scorpio Jones, III

                Oh I am sure you would say your statement is accurate. Narrow-minded, ignorant and oblivious, but accurate…to you.

                Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  point out the part that you feel is inaccurate buddy 😉

                  Like

                • Scorpio Jones, III

                  I am not now, nor will I ever be your “buddy” I have no interest in being friends with liars.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  You’ve already acknowledged that she was fired for performance and not for her actions as a whistle blower, dude. I’m not lying. And “buddy” was used sarcastically.

                  Now point out the inaccuracies in the statement.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  that should read “You’ve already acknowledged that YOU SAID she was”

                  Like

          • Bulldawg165

            The date that wordpress shows between each name and the respective post makes it practically impossible to search.

            How about just answering yes or no: Do you feel UGA was correct in the firing of Jan Kemp?

            Like

            • Scorpio Jones, III

              “Maybe you should stick to baseless accusations about Jan Kemp, Scorpio. Like how you say she deserved to be fired by the University and then cower away when I bring up the fact that everyone in that situation with the power make that decision disagreed with you.”

              No, I never said anything remotely resembling that Kemp deserved to be fired…first lie.

              Second lie: everyone in that situation with the power make that decision disagreed with you.” I was not in a position to take part in the decision, but for your edification, your statement is absolutely not true.

              If you are going to make up things you say I have said, maybe you should try doing some research to make sure what you say I said correlates with what I said.

              Didn’t have any trouble at all finding your absurd quote, FYI

              Like

              • Scorpio Jones, III

                Blaming it on WordPress is an excuse, which is a lie wrapped in a thin skin of the truth.

                You, sir, are a liar.

                Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  Really? Just so we’re clear, you haven’t previously said on here that Jan Kemp was fired because her research/performance wasn’t up to snuff, correct?

                  Like

                • Scorpio Jones, III

                  What you said was that I said she should have been fired….I never said that and you are still a liar.

                  The reason given for her firing you state is more or less accurate, but how can you interpret that as me saying she should have been fired?

                  Oh, wait your interpretations can be anything you want them to be whether true or not, right?

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  see below.

                  Like

              • Bulldawg165

                I was referring to comments you made a couple of months ago. Obviously it would be pretty easy to find a post from the previous day.

                “Second lie: everyone in that situation with the power make that decision disagreed with you.” I was not in a position to take part in the decision, but for your edification, your statement is absolutely not true”

                Please elaborate on why a jury awarded Jan Kemp $1.08M in a wrongful termination suit, then.

                Like

                • Scorpio Jones, III

                  “Please elaborate on why a jury awarded Jan Kemp $1.08M in a wrongful termination suit, then.”

                  What the hell does that have to do with you lying about what I said.

                  You accused me of saying she should have been fired, again, for the final time, I never said that, you just made it up…you lied.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  “What the hell does that have to do with you lying about what I said.”

                  If you think her research/performance wasn’t up to snuff then it follows that you think she deserved to be fired. I can’t think of any instance where one would think that an under performer should be retained.

                  Like

                • Scorpio Jones, III

                  I never said “I thought” her research/performance was not up to snuff, how would I know?

                  All I have said is that was the rationale used by the people who fired her, your reasoning is as flawed as your research, 165.

                  If calling you on it is embarrassing, tough shit.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  “I never said “I thought” her research/performance was not up to snuff, how would I know?”

                  If I recall correctly, you said something along the lines of “she wasn’t fired for being a whistle blower, she was fired for [poor research/under performance]”

                  Are you honestly pretending like you felt it was necessary to clarify that the University didn’t state “being a whistle blower” as reason for her termination? Lol gee whiz man.

                  Like

                • Mayor

                  The University of Georgia was badly represented in court during the trial of the case. Most wins and losses in court can be traced back to the attorney who lost screwing up.

                  Like

                • Scorpio Jones, III

                  Of course you are correct, Mayor, but 165 was not there to see it, so it is no longer important, nor has he been interested to research anything but his own flawed reading skills, which is typical.

                  Like

                • Scorpio Jones, III

                  “If I recall correctly, you said something along the lines of “she wasn’t fired for being a whistle blower, she was fired for [poor research/under performance]”

                  Oh, so your memory suddenly comes together, does it…what about that statement indicates I though Kemp should have been fired?

                  Again, and for the final time…you said I said Kemp should have been fired. I never said that, and you sir, are a liar.

                  Cela.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  Just stop dude. You’re trying to hard to spin your words.

                  Like

                • Bulldawg165

                  “The University of Georgia was badly represented in court during the trial of the case”

                  I mean no disrespect, Mayor, but how do you know this? How does one distinguish “bad legal representation” from “unjustifiable actions by the University that make it really hard for the legal team to build a good defense”

                  Like

                • There’s a famous quote uttered by the school’s attorney:

                  O. Hale Almand Jr., a lawyer for the defense, offered a justification for the favorable treatment accorded the athletes, citing a hypothetical player. “We may not make a university student out of him,” he told the jury, “but if we can teach him to read and write, maybe he can work at the post office rather than as a garbageman when he gets through with his athletic career.”

                  I don’t think Mayor’s going out on a limb here.

                  Like

                • Mayor

                  🙂 The exact quote I was thinking of when I said “bad legal representation.” That quote has been bandied about in legal circles for years as an example of same.

                  Like

                • 81Dog

                  that case was in the dumpster by the end of Hale Almand’s opening argument. A second year law student couldn’t have done a worse job mangling the UGA case. That’s what J. Ralph got for hiring a Mercer guy, I guess.

                  Like

                • Mayor

                  Almand was hired by the University’s liability insurance carrier as I understand it. Those chaps usually hire based on price, not on skill.

                  Like

                • 81Dog

                  as someone who was around during that era, the word was that UGA’s legal brain trust wanted a non-UGA grad to head the defense team, and given that Macon was the seat of the Middle District, where better to find a non-UGA grad than Macon, which is full of Mercer grads? Mr. Almand, who I am sure is a gentleman and an old line aristocrat from one of the fine firms with a storied history in Macon, seemed like a great hire on paper. Unfortunately, he wasn’t ready for a street fight, and his opening statement was probably the best example of how not to sell your client to a jury that I’ve ever seen or even heard about. Many people thought Dean Beaird, who was the chief architect of the university’s in house legal team, was an arrogant prick who helped sail the boat right over Niagra Falls. But, I could be wrong.

                  Like

    • DawgPhan

      Comments are not letting me down today.

      Like

  5. Walt

    I lived in Oxford from 1982 to 1992. For most of that time I was an Ole Miss employee, but was never an ole Miss fan. The racist past of Ole Miss and Mississippi, e.g., James Meredith, the Neshoba County murders, Emmett Till, etc., were still very much in the news when I was living there. And seemingly racist incidents still continue into today – I’ve read where a group of about 400 staged an anti-Obama demonstration on campus after Obama was re-elected (hell, maybe it wasn’t because Obama is half-black, maybe those kids didn’t like him because he’s from Hawaii). So Mississippi’s racist reputation is definitely out there, and I’m sure this plays a role in recruiting

    But how much has this hurt recent recruiting? Any potential recruit cognizant of the racist reputation is probably aware of Ole Miss’ football reputation. Between their glory days of the last 1960s to maybe the 2,000s when they made three trips to the cotton bowl, Ole Miss’ football reputation had been bad to mediocre. They haven’t won the SEC since 1963 – more than 50 years! And they hired a string of questionable coaches such as Steve Sloan, Billy Brewer, Ed Ogeron. The more capable coaches they hired used the job as a stepping stone (Tuberville), seemed more interested in texting their girlfriends than coaching (Nutt), or were fired by the AD (Cutcliff). This kind of coaching instability will probably scare off more kids than an a racist reputation.

    As far as recent recruiting stats – 247 Sports had Ole Miss at #8 in 2013 and in the top 20 for 2014 and 2015. Hugh Freeze seems like a decent enough guy and a good recruiter so maybe he’s turning it around. However, I’m still not an Ole Miss fan and hate that stupid Hotty Toddy chant.

    Like

    • Dawg in Beaumont

      “I’ve read where a group of about 400 staged an anti-Obama demonstration on campus after Obama was re-elected”

      Not defending Mississippi’s history at all here (it’s terrible, I know very intimately), but citing that as racist makes me incredibly uncomfortable. It’d be a scary world if we couldn’t stage an anti-anybody rally. Long live criticisms of all presidents!

      Like

      • Walt

        Dawg in Beaumont
        I hear what you’re saying. I don’t think an anti-Obama rally is inherently racist, but this rally apparently included “derogatory racial statements”, bad enough that the Ole Miss chancellor issued an apology. I probably should have included this info in my post for clarity.

        From FoxNews:
        http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/08/2-arrested-as-anti-obama-protests-escalate-at-ole-miss/

        “The university said in a statement Wednesday that the gathering at the student union began late Tuesday night with about 30 to 40 students, but grew within 20 minutes as word spread. Some students chanted political slogans while others used derogatory racial statements and profanity, the statement said……
        …..Ole Miss Chancellor Dan Jones promised an investigation and said “all of us are ashamed of the few students who have negatively affected the reputations of each of us and of our university.””

        The point I’m trying to make is that Ole Miss still has to deal with this negative stereotype today even if it was only a handful of idiots in a crown of 400. Maybe there were other anti-Obama protests on college campuses where racial epithets were hurled and then publicized in the national media. If so, I don’t remember them making the national news. Try this: google these search terms: “anti obama protests racist university”. Guess what comes up near the top? Ole Miss. If this protest had happened at the University of Montana, it might not have had the same impact as it did coming from the deep south. I doubt it would have been national news, which is the primary reason I was aware of it.

        Still, is this type of incident the reason that Ole Miss isn’t consistently getting top ten recruiting classes or is it because of the perception that Ole Miss has been a second tier SEC team for the last 50+ years?

        Like

      • David K

        RIIIIIIIIGHT. And if Gore or Kerry had won, I’m sure there would be demonstrations on Ole Miss’ campus as well.

        Like

  6. Tronan

    I wonder how much longer universities are going to countenance fraternities. Young men do stupid things. Getting large groups of unsupervised young men together is a recipe for nonsense at best and mayhem at worst. In a less litigious, risk-averse, and sensitive time, fraternities could get away with a lot of anti-social behavior. I cringe (and, admittedly, often laugh) at a lot of the things we and many other UGA fraternities did back in the 80s. That said, as unenlightened, obnoxious, and exclusionary as we were, we didn’t sing songs about lyching.

    Like

  7. Debby Balcer

    My husband graduated from OU in 1977 and was in a frat not that one though he is a Pike. The thing that surprise me about that video is the fact that the racism is about blacks and not Native Americans. Racism exists everywhere unfortunately and that behavior is deplorable. I am glad the chapter is shut down. I hope the young men learn how unacceptable the civilized population finds their behavior. I do believe the acting IQ of a group is lowered by the size of the group; the bigger the group is the lower the IQ and with drinking involved it is the lowest possible. We had friends in the military who were an interracial couple and she said she preferred to lived in the south where it was overt. In the north it was there just deeply hidden. I hope someday we do live in a color blind world.

    Like

    • Mayor

      Maybe I’m a Pollyanna, Debbie, but I truly believe most people, white, black, Asian, native American–whatever–are not bigots against other sub-groups. I have lived in the South my whole life and have witnessed the decline in racism firsthand. I would like to think that most people in the South have moved past that sort of thing. Are there some that haven’t? Sure, just like there are some who hate Jews or Catholics or Muslims for their religion. It will never be perfect. There will always be some. But the southern people I know are good people who do not seem to harbor ill will towards any group or sub-group.

      Like

      • The Kenyan Marxist Usurper agrees with you.

        We do a disservice to the cause of justice by intimating that bias and discrimination are immutable, or that racial division is inherent to America. If you think nothing’s changed in the past fifty years, ask somebody who lived through the Selma or Chicago or L.A. of the Fifties. Ask the female CEO who once might have been assigned to the secretarial pool if nothing’s changed. Ask your gay friend if it’s easier to be out and proud in America now than it was thirty years ago. To deny this progress – our progress – would be to rob us of our own agency; our responsibility to do what we can to make America better.

        Like

        • Mayor

          Maybe I ought to run for President. After all, Sarah Palin got the VP nomination after only one term as Mayor and 1 year as Governor. i’ve been Mayor on this blog longer than that. 🙂

          Like

        • 81Dog

          Even a blind Kenyan finds an acorn every once in a while. 😉 I think Milner Ball used to say that.

          Like

        • Dog in Fla

          What he said
          vs.
          What his translator said

          Like

          • Cojones

            They appeal to my distorted sense of humor. I think they are funny as hell and do more to dispel stereotype black imagery with over the top humor that accentuates the stereotype. Obama’s Anger Translator is so tongue-in-cheek that they both look like they have 4 pieces of bubble gum in there.

            Trivia question: Which one has a black mother and white father and which one has a black father and white mother?

            Like

      • Debby Balcer

        Mayor I agree with you that things are much better in regards to race relations than they were during the sixties. I grew up on military bases and went to integrated school my entire life. My Daddy is from Arkansas so I was always proud to have southern roots. I moved to Augusta Georgia the year they integrated the Richmond County schools. What a life changing experience. I do have hope things will get better but we will not truly be color blind until we stop identifying ourselves by our color- and that means everyone. The younger generation seems to interacially date with no issue so when I see young supposedly educated people act like that it is so disappointing.

        Like

      • Dog in Fla

        “But the southern people I know are good people who do not seem to harbor ill will towards any group or sub-group.”

        You should drop by Selma sometime. When you see the sign for Montgomery, it’s only 50 miles.

        KKK fliers left at Selma homes on 50th anniversary of ‘Bloody Sunday’

        http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/03/kkk_fliers_left_at_selma_homes.html

        Like

        • Mayor

          Damn! I didn’t know you lived in Selma!! Did you leave the fliers, too?

          Like

          • Dog in Fla

            Not me but the opportunity was nowhere for some to do it brick by brick

            Like

            • Cojones

              Would anyone like an orange ceramic dog that looks like Smokey’s opium dream ? Love to see a picture of that dog with a dooby hanging from his lips so that his appearance belies his name.

              Like

    • So true about happenings in Oklahoma and Native Americans. My Mom is from Oklahoma and her brother married a young women and had 7 sons. I enjoyed a few summers with the boys and learned a lot about ranching. Some of the neighbors were rather backwards about who my Uncle fell in love with and chose to marry. I don’t think it ever goes away. I worked in Africa for over a year. It was an eye opener to see the dividing line between different tribes. Or the resentment toward groups from other African countries. And if it’s not that then it’s religion. Some of the mayhem after some international soccer games is beyond belief.
      “There must have been a moment, at the beginning, were we could have said — no. But somehow we missed it. ”

      Like

      • Dog in Fla

        “Ferkessédougou… heck, I’m still only in Ferkessédougou… Every time I think I’m going to wake up back in the jungle, I wake back up in the jungle…”

        But when you’re tour of duty is in Tulsa, drop by the Gilcrease Museum for the finest collections of Native American art and artifacts

        Like

        • It’s hot as hell outside in Tulsa and Ferke but in Tulsa I was really grateful for the air conditioner in my room! Also, in Tulsa you never worry about it being Ramadan, and you knew could always get a little snack no matter what time of night.

          Like

          • Beef. It’s what for dinner/snack/breakfast/lunch

            Like

          • Walt

            During Ramadan you can snack all you want at night.

            Like

            • Dog in Fla

              And the high fiber content in a good bowl of ful mudammas eaten before sunrise during Ramadan makes fasting easier during daylight hours

              Like

            • I don’t know how much you shopped for snacks at night during Ramadan in Ferke but Ima go out on a limb and say….NOT! Ahhhhhh…. well then. It’s much tighter now since Ive been there. TImbuktu (not in Ferke/IVory Coast) is pretty serious with their interpretations today. They also take a hammer and chisel to any mosque objects they deem unworthy. I’ve walked that city…back in the day. I’m probably one of a few GTP’ers been on a camel. Distance … not pleasure. DIF experiences may differ… he’s a Navy guy. Long trips at sea 😉
              And there are things I won’t do when visiting my wife’s relatives on a weekend. Nothing to do with camels. But I digress.

              Like

              • Cojones

                Hear it’s the same in Bumafuk, Egypt.

                Did you hear of the Archeologists working about 40 miles from there who had cameled into the desert and worked for 3 months when one guy said he was hornier than a toad and asked where he could get a woman. When told they were a little over 40 miles away, he exclaimed, ” That far? How am I ever going to relieve my sexual frustrations?” Another guy said, “Well, there’s a big male camel out back.” The guy says “Don’t think my frustration is that bad ” and after an hour said, “Where did you say that camel was?” “Out back” was the reply. He left the tent and after 15 minutes of weird sounds and screams, reappeared with camel spit, camel dung and camel hoofprints all over his shredded clothing. He said, “I hope I never get that desperate for sex again. That was awful.” whereupon a voice said, “You were supposed to ride the camel into town”.

                Since you may be the only gtp-er on a camel, are they really that bad at sex? Hear it’s the same way with Republicans and elephants, but I’m sure they are female elephants. 🙂

                I know – these are old burned out jokes, but what the hell.

                Like

  8. Andrew

    OU just lost a commit 30 min ago

    Like

  9. Tommy

    I’m ok with the “burn it down” option, if that’s what it comes to. There’ll be an investigation and there should be, because that’s the just thing to do. But that wasn’t three newly initiated kids in their room chugging Jack and getting obnoxious. That was a full busload of brothers with their dates, sounding pretty well-rehearsed. I’d be shocked if the investigation turns up enough to evidence to position this as a 1%-of-1% outlier event.

    I get the argument that there is probably at least one member of that chapter who isn’t a foaming-at-the-mouth bigot. Bu so what? If SAE, as an organization, is about instilling the values of “The True Gentleman,” then they failed that bunch miserably. And the national organization and OU are both well within their rights to say “this isn’t what we’re about, and we’re not sanctioning it,” and go with the nuke/restart route.

    Look, I’m saying this as someone who, 20 years ago, was a member of a fraternity that got purged (due to issues not remotely in the same ballpark as these idiots). I was bitter about it at the time, as I wasn’t one of the offenders. But you know what? I got over it. I stuck with the guys with whom I was authentically friends with, and branched out to build a social network to include people who did more than feed me beer when I was underage. It was the kind of healthy self-discovery that an undergraduate experience is supposed to be about and which, frankly, most fraternity experiences tend to block out. If a dozen-odd non-bigoted SAEs find themselves without a chapter, it will be far from the worst thing that ever happens to them. Life will go on for them, I assure you.

    Like

    • Mayor

      So…you were an ATO. I heard that the University came down so hard on them because the University coveted the property their house was on.

      Like

      • Tommy

        Actually, Phi Delt. But same rationale, most likely. That spot on Lumpkin and Baxter was highly coveted and we owned the house while UGA owned the land. To borrow one from Cool Hand Luke, our dirt was in boss’s ditch. Right before the ’96 Olympics, we were forced to vacate the house for the summer because our fireplace hadn’t been cleaned in awhile. Our fireplace. In the summer. I don’t think the fireplace had been used since the ’60s. Anyway, the following spring, we were individually paraded in front of a kangaroo court of interviewers and later got letters indicating we were suspended for “failure to uphold the standards necessary to maintain this historic chapter” or something similarly specific.

        Like

        • Mayor

          The University under Mike Adams systematically went on a mission to screw all the “on-campus” frat houses to steal their land. I also thought Adams was secretly anti-fraternity because of something from his past we don’t know about. Every time frat members did something stupid (which was all the time–we’re talking about teenage and slightly older males here) Adams would use it as a pretext to kick them off campus and get their land. The KAs and the Pikes (or was it the Chi Phis?) had some sort of altercation where guns were discharged and Adams was so happy he about wet his pants. The Sigma Nus had a fire at their house and no matter how hard they tried and whatever repairs were made they could never get the University fire marshall to approve them reopening their house. Thankfully this ended when some big wheel alums (I don’t know who or what frats) negotiated something that resulted in that frat complex on River Road being built. Are the Phi Delts part of that?

          Like

          • 81Dog

            you’re saying Mike Adams was a conniving weasel who pandered to big money interests and enjoyed screwing mere students for his own glorification?

            Wow. You really sound like you knew the guy! 😉

            Like

          • Bulldawg165

            “Altercation where guns were discharged…”

            It doesn’t sound like Adams was the one that overreacted in this one, Mayor 😉

            Like

          • Tommy

            Yeah, I think our guys were part of that. You can only be imperious up until a point, but property rights still have to be respected.

            I’m not sure how the new deal was structured, ie whether the relocated frats own or lease their houses. Obviously, Phi Delt is pretty far down my list of charitable giving, and I haven’t made it back to campus since 2008.

            Like

    • Bulldawg165

      Agree wholeheartedly.

      “That was a full busload of brothers with their dates, sounding pretty well-rehearsed…. I get the argument that there is probably at least one member of that chapter who isn’t a foaming-at-the-mouth bigot.”

      Throw the book at all of them. Like my old wrestling coach used to say: “If you roll around with pigs, it ain’t long ‘fore you start smellin’ like shit”

      Like

      • Mayor

        The wrestling analogy is particularly apt to your position. 🙂

        Like

        • Mayor

          My favorite saying about running for election against a mud-slinging opponent is: “Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” I don’t know if he originated it but I do remember Lewis Grizzard saying that a time or two.

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  10. ASEF

    This is why I love sports blogs, and especially ones like this one. You can have conversations like this here. Smart, diverse, respectful for the most part. Try doing that just about anywhere else, much less online.

    I watch my kids interacting with other kids, and it is a completely different world in a lot of ways than the one I grew up in – a better different. And then I listen to some of those kids talk about things they have to deal with, and it’s apparent some things haven’t changed much at all.

    My daughter came home from 3rd grade last year asking me what some friends of hers meant when they kept telling the Hispanic kids that they had mud on their faces. My daughter, adopted, gets very tan very quickly during the spring and summer, and it bothered her, even though she wasn’t the direct target. What do you do in a situation like that beyond talking to your own 8 year old about prejudice? But from that point forward, she’s been very conscious about the white/non-white thing, and sometimes I wonder if I am up to the challenge of helping her navigate that issue.

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    • Mayor

      Have a talk with the principal. Things like that should not be going on at that school. And you are up to the challenge. You have to be, God bless you.

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  11. Normaltown Mike

    Gawd, what a disgusting chant.

    I was unaware of the story and expecting something rude but good grief.

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