It’s a press release from an organization with an agenda, so I take it with a grain of salt, and, to be honest, most of what’s contained in it doesn’t really bother me. (In fact, the news that the Fellowship of Christian Athletes auctioned an “authentic” Todd Gurley jersey at a gala made me chuckle, for reasons I’m sure you can guess.)
But I will say that if this is true, it does make me a bit uncomfortable:
Kevin “Chappy” Hynes, UGA’s chaplain and brother-in-law to head coach Mark Richt, is on a mission to win souls, FFRF charges. Championships are great, but souls are better: “Our message at Georgia doesn’t change, and that’s to preach Christ and Him crucified, it’s to win championships for the state of Georgia and win souls for the Kingdom of God, so we’re going to continue down that path.” He also “tr[ies] to get these guys plugged in to church…”
Hynes admits he seeks to convert non-Christians. “I tell people … that come to Georgia that are not Christians and allow me to speak in their lives, I encourage them to walk with Jesus,” Hynes said. “I encourage them to get into Bible study. I encourage them to get in the Word. I encourage them to memorize Scripture.”
No state employee should be proselytizing on the job, and when it’s the head coach’s brother-in-law, like it or not, that’s pressure, no matter how well-meaning, that’s gonna carry some weight.
I’ve defended Richt’s tolerance before and sincerely doubt he’d let things get out of hand, but if this is really going on, for appearances’ sake alone, it might not be a bad idea to come up with an alternative.
Get The Picture 
Agreed. That is gross.
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FFRF sent copies of the report, which includes a model policy for universities to adopt, to the university presidents at those public colleges and universities with the most flagrant chaplaincies including: Auburn University University of Georgia University of South Carolina Mississippi State University University of Alabama University of Tennessee Louisiana State University University of Missouri University of Washington Georgia Institute of Technology University of Illinois Florida State University University of Mississippi University of Wisconsin Clemson University
….it isn’t Georgia, they have a problem with …they have a problem with a Chaplin, period.
No where does it say that the Chaplin is paid by UGA. So is he a state employee or is that an assumption we are supposed to reach (you reached?) based upon the release presented by this group to support their agenda?
If he’s not an employee of the state and participation is voluntary, what’s the issue here exactly?
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He is NOT a state employee…there is no issue. NO ONE is forced to do anything except play football (within the NCAA rules)…
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In the press guide, both Hynes and Thomas Settles are listed as Team Chaplains.
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I don’t know that there is one. That’s why I peppered my post with ifs.
But I’ll say a few things in response. One, he at the very least has a formal title that affiliates him with the athletic department. Two, your concept of voluntary participation and mine may very well be different. That’s why I’ve couched my argument in terms of appearances’ sake.
I certainly understand if you don’t share in my discomfort, though.
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I agree with you, Senator. It could be seen by young men that if they were not “right with Jesus” that could lead to less playing time. I have no issue with people seeking out the Chaplain for their own devotion, but it doesn’t need to be a position within the athletic department that could cause some to feel as if they need to be christian in order to play.
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simply not the case.
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And how exactly do you know that…..
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Perhaps you could ask some of the jewish guys that have played for UGA through the years like Louis Freedman, Bill Goldberg, and oh, Branden Kublanow!!!!
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“Richt immediately appointed his brother-in-law, Hynes, as UGA’s chaplain”. Maybe he isn’t a state employee, but if this statement is true, he has a relationship with the university. While no one may be forced to attend religious functions or listen to a Chaplain Haynes conversion speech, the mere fact that he’s the brother in law of the Coach and the Coach is deeply religious could apply undue pressure on an athlete to “conform”. I personally don’t believe in God. I have nothing against anyone who does, but I don’t think anyone attending a state school should be put into a position where they feel if they don’t go along with something, they may not get playing time or could be treated differently. Not that I’m saying that is happening. I like CMR and I think he’s done a great job at Georgia, but I think the Senator is correct in feeling some discomfort.
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According to @MattyPGood:
Don’t worry, indoctrination and social exclusion are just “Teambuilding Exercises”
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My recollection is that the team has always had a chaplain. In my days If i remember correctly, it was Reverend McBride.
I do have some discomfort at the active conversions. I always understood it to be more of a team support in the past. It was an honorary position.
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Claude McBride was team chaplain for many years and was an excellent example of being an effective minister without proselytizing (and, no, he didn’t hide his faith at all). Claude served the team well, was a DGD, but was replaced by Richt in favor of the brother-in-law.
It’s an active role – more than just honorary. And “Chappy” certainly admits to treating it as an active role.
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Must Smith was on this team with this chaplain and never had anything bad to say about it. I would assume they have the right to walk out of any kind of meeting where such things are addressed. If not, it should be made clear to them they do and that their position on the football team will not be hurt because of it.
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You shouldn’t have to walk out of a meeting. What if your boss was a Muslim and started preaching at you at work about saving your soul for Allah? And all your other coworkers were buying in and building some bond around that. Would you feel better knowing you could walk out?
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Its a hack piece. They don’t do that.
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I should have come back sooner…I’m afraid to go below as my assumption is that it went off the rails.
Simple response is that my ‘nothing to see here’ conclusion was admittedly driven by my own personal, Christian world view. I’ve got some discomfort though for the just the reason as if I’m allowing it now…what’s my argument if the next coach is a (insert religion here).
I don’t know the right answer or even if there is a right answer to this particular issue. I know enough to know the guys that sent the letter are a bunch of clowns. But they might just be crazy enough to force a conversation about this internally. I just hope that conversation has nuance and allows the kids who are seeking and in need of spiritual nourishment to find it.
Fair?
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A nice, self-aware post. I’m also a Christian and believe there’s room for people to talk about God (however you define that) on the job and in public places without necessarily saying all those conversations imply coercion or state advocacy of one religion over another.
My concern is we’re going to shut down all meaningful conversation about things that matter because people are afraid to engage their neighbors at school or in the workplace – interestingly, it’s in those places you tend to meet people most unlike you, and so a great place to share differing opinions and create a genuine sense of tolerance and understanding of shared values. If we all are too freaked out by fear to talk, we’ll only breed more fear because we never had those real conversations.
I would prefer the Team Chaplain position to be one much like an Army Chaplain – there to serve anyone seeking spiritual counseling more than proselytizing. If he does indeed have an official title, he needs to dial it back – a lot.
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There’s a difference between people talking at work and your boss proselytizing, hiring his brother in law to do it too (saving your soul), and creating an environment where there’s at least the appearance that there’s favoritism towards one religion over another.
I’m seeing a lot of people on here give the predictable response – “I’m a Christian and I don’t see anything wrong with it.” Well what if the coach was a Muslim doing this? Would you be so ok with it then? If not, then you’re not being intellectually honest.
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Your off base. They DON’T force Christ on the team.
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So, you didn’t read my post?
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“…an organization with and agenda…” I would also encourage everyone to use the Google’s to understand who FFRF is.
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They’re prolific letter writers and don’t care much for Diamond Rio
https://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/florida-sheriff-makes-religious-song-countys-theme
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As compared to all those organizations without agendas that we’re all more comfortable with.
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+10
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Not just for appearances’ sake. Coaches should know perfectly well how to mold a young man without requiring that he walk with Jesus (if that quote from Hynes is real). When kids sign their financial papers, I doubt there’s anything in there about converting to Christianity. Bottom line, I DO trust CMR to handle this type of thing correctly.
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I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here, brother. How’s this negatively affecting UGA football?
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It probably isn’t. But if its affecting team chemistry and creating divisions in the locker room, then it should be addressed.
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But IS it?
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It most likely is, you just don’t hear about it because if someone is uncomfortable, there is a culture in place that will bring about even more discomfort if something is said. I understand that you have probably been raised in a Christian bubble your whole life (as have I, despite not being Christian), where christian=good and anything else is generally unacceptable, but for someone representing a state intstitution to actively pressure someone to abandon their beliefs, is truly gross and inappropriate and no doubt alienates and causes discomfort in that person who believes something different (been there, especially while playing organized sports).
No one should have to endure unwanted proselytizing at a non-Christian establishment, period. because it sucks (and literally hurts) being told what you believe makes you less “good”.
I know that I will never change anyone’s mind on what the origin of life is, and am 100% cool with that, I just wish a lot of people could get that concept through their heads as well. It’s a situation that will no doubt continue to simmer as our culture proliferates more and more diverse world views and traditional religious practices are strained by exposure to differing points of view.
Ok I’ll step off my soapbox and wander over here and read about QB competitions and green “no contact” jerseys and such 😀
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He is NOT a state employee nor does he have unfettered access. I have no problem with him proclaiming the GOSPEL -because its those Christians who have caused the major problems in this nation and world, and I don’t mean the plastic faced guy in Texas or any other person who uses the Church as their platform to make money or spin things for themselves.
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Would you have a problem, when Hynes retires, replacing him with a Rabbi or a Mullah as the team spiritual advisor? After all , the Baptist players don’t have to use his services.
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I can guarantee you the majority of our players are Christian or come from that background. You are kidding yourself if you don’t think that’s a big recruiting tool also. Go anywhere in the world and the dominant religion of the country dominates that country much more than in the US with the lone exception of Europe, where more than half are Atheists or have no religious affiliation. There are clear avenues for players to bring this up to the coaches or someone outside if the coaches don’t listen. Why other people try to step in when no one is complaining is beyond me?
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LOL at the “lone” exception of Europe. Which country are your referring to then as the shining star example? Iran? China? India? Sudan? Kenya?
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I’m saying that the majority of European countries don’t have that problem because the majority are not very religious. But anywhere there’s a dominant religion among democracies, the dominant religion is gonna be magnified and in your face a little more than other religions. It’s just common sense. Now does that mean you should be forced to listen to 30 minutes of preaching every day at a public institution? No.
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Where in the world do you get the idea that an entire continent is somehow not religious by the majority? What in the world are you basing that assumption on? According to a Pew Research Center study from 2014,75% of Europeans claim to be Christians. Have you ever rode a train through the countryside in Europe? EVERY small town’s tallest building is a church. The church steeple is typically the only way you know you’ve encountered a new town. You’re kidding me if you think that religion isn’t an important faction of life in Europe. Seriously? The entire “Troubles” in Northern Ireland can be traced back to escalating tension between Protestants who supported the UK and the traditional Irish Catholics who were treated as second class citizens for many years. Google the Irish penal laws and read up.
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They’re not involved in a church. They’re not really practicing the faith. If you’ll look at things like church attendance, praying, etc. Most Europeans are not that involved.
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Not to all Clinton on you; but this is one of those “It depends upon what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is” moments, no? 🙂
I only bring it up as having spent a good amount of time in some of the more rural parts of Europe (particularly Bavarian Germany) and I don’t see a ton of difference between those folks and the folks here when it comes to religion and actively practicing. Might have more to do with me being in a more conservative parts of the countries, but the numbers from that Pew Center study seem to back up what my eyes have seen in Germany, England, and Ireland.
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Of course. I hate muslims. Hynes doesn’t push this. He actually doesn’t interact with the players.
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Also…NO ONE is forced to pray or go to services (see Smith, Musa). Richt is pretty open about his faith and what he believes but I assure everyone here that it is NOT held against anyone who doesn’t have interest or participate in these type activities.
Lastly Kevin Hynes is NOT the Chaplin to the players. He runs FCA in Athens. So FFRF definitely has their facts wrong.
There are worst things in life- and people (like planned parenthood or Islamic terrorist or teletubbies) than someone honestly following Christ.
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I am not questioning his good will.
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Senator -my comments are directed at FFRF not necessarily you.
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No problem. I tried to be very careful with how I worded the post. But I recognize that reasonable people will differ on this.
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“like planned parenthood or Islamic terrorist or teletubbies”
Comparing Planned Parenthood and Islamic Terrorists is, well, interesting.
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It’s ignorant and offensive, but not surprising.
Honestly, the whole team chaplain idea is antiquated and it probably is a position that should not exist at a state-funded institution with a bunch of players receiving state scholarship funds to attend a public university. Actively trying to convert non-Christians is especially inappropriate.
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No, it’s offensive that PP be allowed to continue their shady practices, all on my/our dime. I don’t agree with their “mission”, and since everyone’s “feelings” are such high priority now, I expect for them to read this post and immediately start procedures to have them defunded. Sounds ridiculous, but why do your feelings outweigh mine? Because you whine louder?
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Arguing against PP’s “mission” or whether they should be publicly funded is one thing. Comparing them to terrorists is just plain ignorant. The nearest PP has come to a terrorist is when Eric Rudolph visited.
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The U.S. military, the CIA, and the NSA get a whole lot more public money than Planned Parenthood (which actually does a whole lot of good) and they are much shadier. Why not bitch about them instead?
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Because they don’t kill anybo… oh, wait.
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His nickname is “Chappy” and his bio states:
Chappy serves Christ as Chaplain on the campus of the University of Georgia for the Bulldog Football Team.
http://ugateamunited.com/staff/
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Perhaps we can petition the Board of regents to change our name to PCU…?
Unless they’re requiring players to convert, players are still free to make their own choices on religion. Let’s not confuse “freedom of religion” with a “requirement of religion.”
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You make it sound so simple. Trust me, as a Jewish kid who grew up in the South, religion is never that simple.
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While I was raised Episcopal, I can completely sympathize with the “Jewish kid in the south” angle, senator. Both from some Jewish friends and what I observed. My highschool football team had some team church outings (I played soccer, we had more important things on our plate). I know of a couple of non Christian football players who had to attend these trips (I would have refused, even as a churchgoer then, on the grounds that it’s insensitive and short sighted and not at all to do with playing sports).
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Hey, shout out to the Episcopalians on the blog (assuming you still are; if not, God loves you nonetheless!).
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As a Baptist kid who grew up in the South I totally agree. It ain’t that simple.
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And as a Catholic boy who moved to the South in the 60s, I too agree. It ain’t nearly that simple.
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It has been my observation that nothing about religion is simple, although some of the minds involved seem to be.
Not sure how this relates to the Senator’s post, but having been raised as an Episcopalian, then discover I was “known to be” half-Jewish when I got to Athens was an enlightening experience.
If the perception is that Hynes is an integral part of the football program at the University of Georgia then he should not be allowed to recruit players of different faiths, the possibility of the perception of abuse is simply too great.
I know nothing about the organization that seems to be calling out Mark Richt, but I can tell you truth is no defense, as witnessed by the folks who still believe the President was not eligible to be the President because he was not born in this country.
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Isn’t that more about race and some kind of stimulant from an aerosol canister than it is about religion
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I think there’s nothing simple about growing up, period, no matter what religion you are or where you grew up. I dont doubt for a second that being a Jewish kid in the south in the 60s was complicated. So was being a Catholic kid from New York, just in a different way. And because I wasn’t one, I can only assume that being a Baptist kid or a Presbyterian kid, or whatever, was complicated in a different way, too. Life is just complicated in many ways, partly because too many people from too many backgrounds want to automatically assign malicious motives to fairly benign actions. Common sense really IS the least common sense of all.
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Richt doesn’t fundraise for Hynes position. He appeared at an FCA fundraiser. There is a huge difference. He isn’t calling people on the UGA alumni roster requesting donations for the FCA. That is a false narrative.
When Hynes was referring to “our message,” I’m sure he was referring to his message and not the football coaches’ message or the administration’s message. The way it is published, it sounds like Georgia’s football team is on mission. That just isn’t true.
“I tell people… that come to Georgia that are not Christians and allow me to speak in their lives…” That sounds completely voluntary… almost like they are seeking him out. They know what he is about. He is a professed man of faith that works as a chaplain. Imagine the gall of a chaplain encouraging someone to read the bible or join a bible study. Truly shocking.
I’ve never heard one football player complain about Hynes or about Richt’s faith. Not once… and that story would get mega play in a town as antagonistic toward religion as Athens is. Richt has been open about people of any faith (including non-religious) being a part of his team. If you have a problem with Richt’s religion, it is because you already have a problem with religion. These FFRF folks should find something more productive to do with their lives than trying to stir up trouble where none has existed previously.
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+1
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“[. . .] that story would get mega play in a town as antagonistic toward religion as Athens is.”
No disrespect intended, Trey, but statements like that illustrate that there is a fundamental divide in perception coloring this conversation.
I lived in Athens for ~six years (part of HS and UGA), attended two different churches (including Richt’s church, where I met Chappy, briefly), participated in and knew people from a variety of churches and student ministries (Athens Church, Prince Avenue, Wesley, BCM, etc.) and identify as an evangelical Christian. Compared to places I’ve lived before/since, I’d say Athens/UGA is positively drenched in evangelicalism.
I could be wrong. But I guarantee you that the FFRF, the Secular Student Alliance, and the unaffiliated non-Christians on the team and on campus are going to see Chappy’s small role as part of a larger cultural phenomenon that has real power, both on football players and regular students.
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As an atheist living in Athens, I can confidently say this is 100% correct. There are plenty of non-Christian people, but we are still the minority when it comes to religious affiliation (or lack thereof). Athens may be Athens, but it’s still in Georgia.
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using his quote as evidence of it being voluntary doesn’t hold a lot of water.
If there are team meetings where “Chappy” is brought in to “save souls” then it’s not voluntary. Having to get up and walk out of a meeting, thereby declaring your religious beliefs (not Christian) in front of a team that is majority Christian and a coach who orchestrated the event is a bad situation.
Also, as to “voluntary,” see how many players show up at summer “voluntary” workouts. All of them. There is no such thing as optional in a football program in the SEC.
I hope those Chrisitians reading this don’t think I’m attacking Christianity. I grew up Christian and know the religion teaches you to spread the Word, so hearing that there’s times when it’s not ok to spread the Word probably feels like an affront. But it shouldn’t, because there are absolutely times when it’s not temporally appropriate to try to persuade people to Christ.
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I don’t think this has ever happened, so your whole argument is based on a false premise.
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My sentiments exactly. I see points from both sides. True Christian faith is basically all about Love and loving those around you. That means all those around you, not just other Christians. “Religion” should not be pushed or imposed on anyone but the principles that Jesus stood for, treating everyone as you would wish to be treated, do not apply to religion only. They are guiding principles of how a “team” should treat each other on a daily basis. Richt has always said (from his first speech I read after his hire) that he would not push his religion on anyone but it would be a part of how he coaches these young men. In this, he is talking of the principles his faith has taught him. I think we can all agree that he is a very principled man and that we have not seen him waver from those high standards. If that is what these players are learning from him, I think they’re in a good place and if they want to go beyond the principles and explore his faith further, they can reach out to the chaplain who can encourage them and guide them if they wish.
I would suggest that Richt & the university are likely very careful to let players know that it is the principles Richt pushes, not the faith itself.
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I think you are spot on with this post Senator. Thanks for sharing it.
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I’m with you senator. If we had a different HC who’s brother-in-law was a Muslim cleric, who initiated prayers and encouraged them to convert to Islam, I’m quite certain the overall responses here wouldn’t be as passive. Of course, its naturally convenient to have no problem with something that you also are in agreement with, especially something as meaningfully important as your religious faith.
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This.
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Bingo.
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+1
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Nailed it.
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amen
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Yup.
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Except they don’t do that…
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FFRF = losers (regardless of what your personal stance is on religion or what your personal belief system is or is not)
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All we need is love b/c we’re not running some kind of madrassa here
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A damn shame this is made into an issue.
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+10000000
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jesus christ.
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Putting the religious aspects of this aside for a moment, my question is whether its yet another team hanger-on from CMR’s family or friends? Does he and/or his organization benefit from the UGA program and a close relationship with the HC?
Getting back to religion – sure, teams have chaplains, as does the military, congress, etc. That’s not a big deal unless he’s been designated THE guy to the exclusion of others who aren’t provided similar access to the team.
Then again, if Hynes wasn’t any good CJP would’ve replaced him by now.
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“my question is whether its yet another team hanger-on from CMR’s family or friends?”
my question is how many brother-in-laws does CMR have?
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That last bit about CJP was the comment of the day!
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They convert way more players at Bama. It’s all about the Evangelistic Process.
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Nothing to see here…move along. Move along.
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Good job and well-handled, Senator. This is a very worthy topic, though uncomfortable for all of us. I agree that I trust Richt to handle it the right way. Hines was once a team chaplain, but was moved to FCA years ago. Though the state doesn’t pay him–it’s still a gray area, because of his access to the team through his brother-in-law. Times have changed, even in the South, and we have to be very careful to respect diversity. I think we do that. Now, there have been some iffy situations raised at Clemson and at Tennessee, where Arian Foster says he was told he would go to church. As someone who co-authored the autobiography of the FCA national president, I see both sides of this issue: the enormous good FCA does, and the fine line it walks. I’m glad Senator shared this, because we’ll be reading about it anyway. As in every hot issue, we simply need to accept there is more than one view and be respectful of both sides.
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“…we simply need to accept there is more than one view and be respectful of both sides.”
Communist! (/sarcasm)
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Didn’t Dabo bring a big trough out on the football field and Baptize one of his players at practice a couple or three years back? I’m too lazy to Google it.
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Worked up the energy:
http://sportstalksc.com/index.php/2012/09/05/clemson-assistant-jeff-scott-clarifies-nuk-hopkins-post-practice-baptism/
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That wasn’t nearly as bad as the time Jackie Sherrill brought a big trough out on the football field
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Let’s separate two distinct but important issues:
1) tax payers dollars should never be used to promote any religious activity. Separation of church and state is essential to a free society.
2) the concept of freedom FROM religion is absurd. Within a free society you are going to be bombarded with speech you are uninterested in or even offended by. I’m not going to be a Mormon, but I’m also not going to ask the state to stop them from knocking on my door. I have no freedom FROM opposing viewpoints of any type and religion is no different.
For better or worse some religions like Christianity and Islam are “universalizing” religions. Spreading the word and getting converts is the duty of a loyal, devout member. I’m not going to ask them to stop. I will ask them to respect my space and my freedom do my own thing.
I realize that those members of minority religions are the most impacted by unwanted pressure from the fanatical majority sect. I’m not sure that there is much that can be done to protect those minority groups FROM opposing religious doctrine. However, If I thought for a second that any part of the program practiced any form of pressure to become a devout Christian I would be the first to reject it. On the other hand, leading kids towards Christianity in an appropriate, respectful manner is not at all harmful. I would suggest that they invite Rabbi’s and whatever the equivalent Islamic position is so that the focus isn’t on a particular religious dogma, but on the inherent value of having some path that best allows an individual to examine your own existence and mortality.
As pernicious as religion has been upon society over the history this very recent dogmatic promotion of atheism could be in my opinion far worse. An organization that suggests that its mission is to insulate the non-believing from the believing is just the latest absurdity. Can I be protected from “stupid?” I’d like to be free of all “stupid.” I find “stupid” to interfere with my enjoyment of life and would like to be free of it.
I mean how damn silly can we get?
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Did you really just use the phrase “dogmatic promotion of atheism?”
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I did. I’ll assume that you aren’t familiar with Richard Dawkins.
There are people promoting the idea that ALL religion of ALL types is bad for humanity and serves no beneficial purpose. You have stupid people in the crowd cheering people who promote this concept because they are so proud that they know that the Noah story is dumb. Yes there is a new form of demagoguery being directed at dumb non-believers. I’m not impressed and frankly these people scare me.
I am as I usually find myself; in the distinct minority. I think that the religious AND the atheists are stupid. The atheists say: “well all religion is wrong and dated and any analysis into the texts proves that the text is inaccurate, immoral or both hence there is no God.” The religious say: “the earth is 6,000 years old because the Bible is the divine word of God.”
I say that they are both wrong. The fact that man has not proven God’s existence via religion does not mean that there is no God. Rather than making the false choice between atheism and devoting oneself to an existing and patently flawed doctrine, I say our search for God and the meaning of own existence can occur right betwixt our own ears, if we simply try to use the brains that something, maybe we can call it God, gave us.
One value of the concept of God is that it inspired the revolution that we are all beneficiaries of. Read the preamble: We are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights.
That is one hell of a concept. Why are you entitled to assemble? God says so. Why are you entitled to vote? God says so. Why does the State need a warrant to search your house? Cause God says so.
You decide that there is no God because the Jonah and the Whale story is patently ridiculous and your rights to be protected from those more powerful than your self vanish very quickly. Get rid of the concept of a higher power and you’ve decided that the greatest power in the universe is a man. Frankly I’m not terribly thrilled by that prospect.
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I’m familiar with Richard Dawkins, and he’s sure-enough obnoxious, but his schtick isn’t what I think of when I think of “dogma.”
The rest of your post is food for thought, as good an agnostic’s creed as I’ve read lately. Otherwise, I’m content to read what others say and silently disagree with most of it. I’m not going to be convincing anybody, and nobody’s going to be convincing me, so it’s a bit pointless to talk about it, especially on a football blog.
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“The religious say the earth is 6,000 years old …”
I’m a flawed person of the Christian faith, but I don’t believe that. I do believe that the story of creation as told in Genesis is a story told to people who didn’t have carbon dating and other technologies to investigate the science of how the earth came to be. I think it takes a lot more faith to believe the universe came from nothing more than a Big Bang rather than the intelligent design of a Creator who put all of this into motion billions of years ago.
Can we get back to discussing who is going to take the 1st snap on September 5th?
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I have never understood why the person and work of Jesus Christ are so offensive to so many today. Sharing the good news of Jesus Christ is akin to one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread. Many ideas are being shared and exchanged today; why not the teachings of Christ, apparently in this voluntary setting?
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It’s obviously not offensive to our football players; if it were we would have heard about it years ago.
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Really? I wasn’t aware of what Fulmer was up to until Foster spoke out about it recently.
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Generally speaking – it’s not the teachings themselves. As the Senator stated above, it’s not as simple as you think when it comes to religion.
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Would you find it equally absurd to complain about the team’s Imam? We have to be careful not to suggest that Christianity is unique in its harmlessness. Buddhism is pretty benign. However, my guess is that many would find the promotion of less popular religions out of place within the football program. If Coach Said al-Tikriti hired an Imam to teach the good word of Mohammed as team chaplain, I’m guessing you’d complain.
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I don’t know much about Buddhism but this is happening:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-dozens-of-rohingya-muslims-massacred-by-buddhists-in-rakhine-burma/
Buddhist seem to be committing genocide against Muslims in Myanmar. It may not be as benign a religion as people think.
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It’s not the teachings so much as some of the obnoxious assholes that do the sharing. And, yes, I’m sure there are many obnoxious Muslim and Jewish and Buddhist and atheist assholes, but we don’t get exposed to them much around here. ; -)
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It’s always been silly enough that football players think their teams are blessed by God as they try to injure and destroy their opponents that have also been praying to and blessed by God. In that sense, no logic need apply to this stuff anyhow.
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As an atheist who grew up in Georgia and who actually likes Mark Richt, I can see where this article is coming from. I have no problem with his beliefs and his mentoring, but evangelical Christianity bleeds into a lot of things in the South and puts a lot of pressure on people. Most people don’t see it because they agree with it, but from the outside it can be a little shady. I work in HR and did a lot of risk management in my undergrad greek life so the concept of official sponsorship is a more of a fine line than most people think as well. Caution wouldn’t be a bad idea here.
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The FFRF group has an agenda. Their agenda is anti religion whether the religion is Christianity, Judaism, Muslim, Hindu and replace it with secular humanism.
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I’m more interested in who the chaplain thinks is going to be our starting QB!
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AusDawg85, best post of the day so far! Lol
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Could it be the one who throws the best “Hail Mary”?
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I actually like the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Then again, I also like the separation of church and state.
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I also like the free exercise of religion specifically included in the 1st Amendment as well. Notice “exercise” is an active word. But there are those who are offended when faith is expressed outside of the home or a center of worship. Many want to use the state as a hostile tool against people of faith.
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Amen, Indy.
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That’s nice and all but this story isn’t about that. This story is about the constant preaching of religion to a government university’s football team.
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Stop making sense
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Macon Dawg: I’d be interested in you definition of “constant”. My guess is there’s more football coaching going on. If you definition of “constant” is really “some”, then you’ve made my point. And that makes sense.
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Kevin “Chappy” Hynes, UGA’s chaplain and brother-in-law to head coach Mark Richt, is on a mission to win souls, FFRF charges. Championships are great, but souls are better: “Our message at Georgia doesn’t change, and that’s to preach Christ and Him crucified, it’s to win championships for the state of Georgia and win souls for the Kingdom of God, so we’re going to continue down that path.” He also “tr[ies] to get these guys plugged in to church…”
Hynes admits he seeks to convert non-Christians. “I tell people … that come to Georgia that are not Christians and allow me to speak in their lives, I encourage them to walk with Jesus,” Hynes said. “I encourage them to get into Bible study. I encourage them to get in the Word. I encourage them to memorize Scripture.” Hynes regularly prays with players.
That is directly from the article that the Senator linked to, in case you didn’t bother to read it.
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Oh I read it. Still looking for your “constant”. My guess is the team is practicing football a little bit more than meeting with the chaplain. But if a review finds exposure to the chaplain to be compulsory or impacting a player’s status on the team, then there is an issue. Likewise, I find those demanding free exercise of religion be prohibited outside the home and places of worship to be on par with forcing others into religious compliance.
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There are SO many Team United events and other similar things that many, many of our players attend. If you don’t understand the pressure involved with telling religious people that you are not religious and/or will not be attending some religious event, then you are missing the point. There’s also group prayer. Not participating in that is similarly awkward. It’s easy to feel uncomfortable or judged or to be treated differently by your peers just because you don’t want to go to something/participate in something because of your beliefs.
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I would consider a full time paid staff member as “constant.” Is the strength and conditioning coach constantly preaching about strength and nutrition?
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This church/state separation is an interesting thing. For instance, what does the definition of marriage have to do with the state? Marriage pre-dates the state, obviously, and has always been ordained and blessed by the church. So, why is it okay for the state to trample down this church/state “barrier”? I like this separation as well, but mainly to protect the church from the state.
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Well, for one, the State provides rights to its citizens based on its definition of marriage (taxation, property, hospital visitation, etc). And it’s ok for the State to trample this barrier because there is not supposed to be a barrier placed by religion among equal citizens.
Polygamy also predates the State. Is that definition of Marriage being trampled by the State too?
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“protect the church from the state”
Yes because having to pay no taxes is like the Spanish Inquisition
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“Marriage pre-dates the state, obviously, and has always been ordained and blessed by the church.”
Incorrect. Marriage has NOT always been ordained and blessed by the church. Marriage predates the church. Marriage existed in ancient Greece, ancient China, ancient Egypt, ancient Rome, etc.
Marriage actually predates recorded history (assuming it didn’t just coincidentally manifest at the same time that history began being recorded).
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FFTF , Kiss my ass. The players are given the choice whether they want Chaplain Hynes influence in their lives, just as the University gives them many other options as influences. That’s what University life is all about , isn’t it. Let the individual choose.
Coach Richt is going to play the best players. It’s so stupid and naïve for Senator and other commenters to think playing time will go to someone based on anything other than their football abilities and potential.
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If you think that’s what motivated my post, you really don’t understand.
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Senator, as a kindred spirit, I can tell you that i understand completely. However, I take a completely different tack. on the issue.
Personally, I’m a strict constitutionalist. If you read the thing, you will find no “separation of church and state”. It simply prohibits the establishment of a state religion. It does not prohibit displays or expressions of religion in a public forum. Having a chaplain available for those who want it doesn’t
violate the Constitution.
As a religious issue, “freedom from religion” is a personal choice. When I’m in a public situation, a dinner or meeting for example, and grace or invocation is given, typically I’m in the vast minority. And if they choose to “pray”, It simply doesn’t affect me because I choose not to pray with them. In short, it’s what they do, so I let them. And at the end of the day, nobody is harmed. And there is my freedom from the religion of others!
So you see, there’s really no need to be uncomfortable!
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It does not matter what the coaches/chaplain thinks or how they decide or say playing time is or is not related to religious activity involvement. They clearly allow/promote the activity and it does not appear to promote all religions equally. All that matters is if any player (or person) feels coerced or uncomfortable politely declining or walking out ( i.e coach/player/boss ends a meeting with a prayer praising Jesus or Buddah or any specific religion) because he/she believes it will impact playing time or work opportunities. Lets not be naive & think skipping “voluntary” summer practices or lobbying politicians HAS NO impact on the coaches’ or politicians’ decisions. [Even the bible infers that humans can’t totally disregard the effects of influence peddling & we should refuse to accept it to maintain fairness & impartiality] The constitution says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” Courts have determined that public funds/laws/actions & even some private actions like hiring/firing may not be used to promote a religion nor discriminate against a religion. Allowing the use of taxpayer funded facilities/power/water/personnel to promote a religion is a violation of the 1st amendment. [ BTW, it does happen but IMHO it only stands up locally. Any case appealed & decided @ the federal level that involves federal funds has been ruled against the promoter of the specific religion] It does not matter if every single player or employee of that organization does not openly object. There are many ways to impart the good values & principles promoted by most religions WITHOUT tying it to a specific religion or mandate. Our actions to do good & right say much more than our faith. And, although MY actions are primarily based on my religious teachings, many non-religious people did & do great things for humanity. I believe values taught through a religion are integral to molding good people. But if someone believes religion is not necessary, it is their right. And it is their right to object to the use of federal funds to coerce or attempt to influence them or others. People (including coaches) should not be restricted in freedom of expression. But they must be careful about the location & platform used to make those expressions regarding any religion ( or the belief in the absence of religion). They must be careful about the potential of appearing to have authority over a “captive audience”; even if all members of the audience request the action. Amazing how fast we forget the UGA cheerleading coach religious influence case from 2004.
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That is the best point made in this entire comment thread.
And, yes, I had forgotten about that.
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I think it’s a legit issue. Born-agains do try to lead others to where they believe they should go, just like the Chaplain was quoted as saying in that link. I’ve had my encounters with born-agains and it’s exhausting trying to get them to shut up and leave you alone. But that’s not the issue. The issue is when you combine that mentality with being the brother-in-law of the head coach.
Parents raise their kids and teach them whatever religion they follow at home (or no religion is fine too). Then they send their kids to college. It’s a time in life when we’re figuring out who we want to be. Not surprisingly, some students change their beliefs. Or young adults (like Richt when he was a coach at FSU) change their beliefs. And that’s fine, as long as they weren’t unduly influenced. And whether they are or not actually influenced might not even matter so much as what is the perception.
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Doesn’t seem to bother the kids at Notre Dame. And I let’s be honest, “state run institution” is pretty weak. The state doesn’t pay for the majority of the football staff’s salary-I do every time I stroke my check to the Hartman fund.
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I don’t see it as a problem, but a solution to most of the problems facing these young men. Christ did not force Christianity on the people, nor is our football program but you’re not a very good Christian if you don’t present the gospel.
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If you believe the message of Jesus was “be a good Christian,” then you may have missed the message.
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Truly ridiculous. Why is there any surprise about a Chaplain proselytizing for his religion? These kids get proselytized to all day by their professors, friends, advocacy groups and the like – about a myriad of social issues upon which there undoubtedly isn’t universal agreement and no one bats an eye – but being presented with a point of view is suddenly dangerous and unthinkable b/c it comes from a christian —- who happens to be the team chaplain! Oh the horrors. No one is forcing them to attend services, meet with the chaplain, memorize scripture, etc. Have some faith that these kids can shield themselves from all that nefarious christian encouragement.
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Has at least one of the many non-Christian players to come through during Richt’s tenure ever come forward about pressure or losing playing time? If not, it just seems like we’re looking for something that isn’t there.
I believe in spreading the good word. What I don’t believe in is pressuring, guilting and going old testament on someone who isn’t receptive.
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If we’re gonna go this far, why not call to task our ultra liberal teachers and professors who are trying to rewrite much of our history? Hell there are pressures and what ifs in all facets of life yet they’re ok?
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Or the UGA religion professor who lied repeatedly during my religion class at UGA, telling the entire class Jesus never really existed and was a fable. We were forced to answer his tests with his worldview (not backed up by actual facts but his opinions) or fail the tests. Give. Me. A. Break! Atheists are just as much evangelists as any other faith. The FFRF is further proof of that.
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I would have had to fail that class or find another elective. Same thing went on when I was in Athens.
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The double standard here is astounding. People get up in arms because a non-paid chaplin professes Christ and admits that he is determined to share the Gospel.
But the same folks, many on here, are mute on the point that all State colleges and Universitys are chock full of teachers who profess and some that even demand that their studenst profess that there is no God.
That is a religous belief unto itself, and it’s standard fare served up by paid employees of the state.
I personally dropped a class at Ga. State because the teacher required that I declare, in a term paper, that there is no creator.
So outcry that.
I personally don’t believe there are any real atheists. I believe there are a lot of you that hope there is no God because He may require accountability.
Senator, why don’t you do a piece on how disturbing it is that teachers tell students there is no god, and how they may get low-graded if they don’t go along with it?
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Well said. Thanks.
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Ugly, you’ve got to commit to the G. Otherwise you’re going to get low-graded for not capitalizing god
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And you, my friend DIF, will be convicted of not having a period…at the end of your sentence. 🙂
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It’s unfortunate that you had a teacher once that asked for you to abandon your beliefs.
Now imagine that every single teacher and person of authority aside from your parents (family included) did the same pretty much every day of your life.
How exactly would you feel about that?
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“I get beat everyday, and you only get beat once a week, so your beatings don’t matter”?
Do you stand by your statement, “every single teacher and person of authouity aside from your parent’s did the same thing ..every day..”???
That’s hyperbole in high gear, masiva.
I can’t say that “every teacher” does this..but I can say that I NEVER had a teacher profess any religion or belief system in the classroom,
except Atheism.
And it happened a lot and continues to happen a lot.
If you’re going to espouse your right to freedom from hearing other’s beliefs, you should espouse students’ right to the same freedom from the Atheist religous system.
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This post removed by administrator.
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You’d be wrong. There really are “real atheists.” Trust me.
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Correct. Ultra liberal teachers and professors can do it because Satan gave them tenure
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No offense to anyone, but this is an awesome thing. And, it has been ever since CMR took over the program. Those who don’t think so definitely have that right, but there will most assuredly come a day of reckoning where they will wish they had prioritized differently.
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You’re talkin’ about WLOCP, right?
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Because that wouldn’t have anything to do with UGA football. Wait…
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“No state employee should be proselytizing on the job, and when it’s the head coach’s brother-in-law, like it or not, that’s pressure, no matter how well-meaning, that’s gonna carry some weight.”
Jeepers. So he is or is not a state employee blah blah blah? Ok. Thaz half the post.
I didn’t grow up in a Jewish household… i married into a Jewish Catholic household. My dad asked me how the kids would be raised if we had any. I just didn’t answer. I will say this. My mother in law whose family escaped Europe was one of the most influential people in my life. No one impacted me like she did. She loved the south and her Baptist neighbors.
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I think it’s a safe bet that the overwhelming majority of UGA football players are Christian, many of whom probably come from devout families. Why wouldn’t they have a chaplain? Todd Gurley made the sign of the cross when he scored touchdowns; is that verboten too?
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“i married into a Jewish Catholic household.”
That is a LOT of inherent guilt in one house there. (Irish Catholic married to Latin Catholic here)
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Interesting. Thanx for sharing. My oldest made a trip to Wales, Lithuania and Italy this summmer to meet up with some of his relatives. He has an intense need to know his roots I guess. I’ve never met these people but they made him welcome. I’m grateful.
Hope he doesn’t move though. Lol.
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The perfect storm of guilt. 😉
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as a Catholic school survivor, I always heard Catholics were credited by Jewish folks for perfecting guilt without sex.
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When I read the article, I laughed at this sentence: “Richt converted to Christianity when he was an assistant coach to FSU head coach Bobby Bowden.” Really? What was he before he was at FSU?
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Probably not religious. Why is that confusing?
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My focus is on the term ‘convert’.
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Yes I understand. When one goes from nothing to something only a conversion makes that possible. Pretty straight forward.
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a heathen who liked to get the party started
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Maybe non-religious?
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Now that mine posts I can see someone already said this. Yay for duplicates and weird web browsers that don’t display everything that’s been written!
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I hope The school uses some good common sense and ignores these loons. Christians are exposed to ideas and doctrine we do not agree with, aren’t comfortable with etc. everyday and that is A ok with the people freaking out over this. There is no protection for Christain students who are bombarded with ideas that are not only antithetical but hostile to their beliefs on all that they hold as truth from these liberal moon bat professors who are indeed paid by the state. So those getting their whittle feewings hurt by this can get right over it. People like the folks in this little club of atheists love the idea that Christians are overbearing and intolerant. The fact is, atheists are far more overbearing and far less tolerant. It is their way or no way.
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I believe CMR would step down at Georgia if he were told to tone down his faith or to tell his brother-in-law his services as team chaplain were no longer needed.
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If the latter is the case, that would be the first brother-in-law to reach the value of $5,000,000 per year
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Let me say it a different way. CMR would step down if the administration told him he couldn’t have an unpaid chaplain as part of his team or if he were told to quit talking about his faith as part of his job.
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Neither of which is the real issue here.
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It certainly seems like this group wants all team chaplains taken out of the football programs of state universities. If the administration at Georgia decided to bend to political correctness and to force Richt to keep his mouth shut (including his b-i-l) on this topic, I do think he would walk away.
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They are objecting to the possibility that Hynes is proselytizing players from his official perch.
It is possible to have a team chaplain without proselytizing. It is possible for Hynes to proselytize from outside the program. It’s the combination of the two that is troubling.
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Then, instead of a chaplain, he’s a team counselor if he can’t mention his faith. As long as the coaching staff isn’t making decisions based on what Hynes says or forcing every player or recruit to listen/accept Hynes’ message, I don’t get worked up about this.
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C’mon, man. Proselytizing isn’t merely mentioning your faith.
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Then, where’s the line between what’s appropriate and inappropriate in this context? Who’s the arbiter of what’s appropriate? It’s a big gray area that people with an agenda like this group want to be black and white – no mention of religion outside of religious buildings or your home.
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The line seems pretty clear to me: no one in an official capacity for the University of Georgia should be proselytizing students.
And let me say this – for all I know, that’s exactly how business is being conducted by Richt and his staff. Would it hurt so much to hear him confirm that? I don’t think that’s asking for much here.
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Let me ask my question a different way: Where is the line where a discussion about faith becomes “proselytizing”? It’s like beauty, obscenity, or pornography … It’s in the eye of the beholder.
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It starts with who approaches whom with the good news.
And it’s not nearly as difficult to determine as you make it, at least for someone like me who’s been on the receiving end of it from decades ago.
I don’t know why you find this so hard. Christianity is up front about proselytizing. Hynes isn’t hiding that it’s part of his mission. And I don’t have a problem with that, as long as it’s not tied into positions of secular authority.
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I understand that and your concern. I would have a problem with the person in secular authority pushing their beliefs onto another. I don’t think we’re as far apart as you think. 😉
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Senator,
Are you proselytizing to us here on this blog in an official capacity?
(kidding here of course).
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Heh. Judaism, as you may or may not know, is not a proselytizing religion. Which reminds me of a story from Hebrew school when we had a rabbi discussing the subject, which he kind of described as “You want to convert to Judaism? What, are you crazy?”
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Proselytizing is a very amorphous term. As everything in the post conversation, there is a thin line of what constitutes proselytizing and what is just speaking of your faith. A friend of mine, married into the Jewish faith, and is frequently encouraged to explore converting to Judaism by her inlaws.
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Gosh, don’t I feel dumb now.
Thirteen years of religious studies, down the drain.
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“this little club of atheists love the idea that Christians are overbearing and intolerant”
Where would they ever get that idea
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Right, because the Christians in this country, who for a couple centuries have far outnumbered the opposition, have been using their brute force and the mob majority power of their votes to beat down the opposition, resulting in this oppressive, intolerant society you have to endure, DiF.
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I’ve run into just as many overbearing intolerant Atheists as I have Christians.
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Actually, Hogbody, In college, I ran into very many overbearing and intolerant Atheists.
This isn’t about fairness or “rights”, it’s about accountability to a higher being and how uncomfortable that idea is to those who hope it ain’t so.
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I don’t know if he’s employed, but he doesn’t appear to be compensated.
http://www.open.georgia.gov/
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He’s gotta be paid somehow. CMR brought him to Athens for the express purpose of being a chaplain.
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FCA chaplains fund raise for the organization. I know a guy that is one and he had to ask for donations for a year just to qualify.
Maybe richt should ban this guy from not getting a salary & bein an unpaid chaplain?
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I think the FCA think is merely an avocation. Something he does in his spare time. Think Rotary, Kiwaniss, Masons, etc.
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From the above weirdness is seems: 1) Hynes is not a state employee, 2) no one is forced to do anything regarding conversion,and players do not lose playing time if they are non-Christian (Musa, Mohammad, etc.) I don’t like the emphasis on “conversion”, and would like to see it modified. I do not see a church and state issue here, and feel CMR will make sure everything is in order.
I would not mind if the Team Chaplain were a rabbi, priest, minister, etc., but yes, I would very much oppose a Muslim cleric playing that role. Bet your ass I would, and it isn’t happening folks. We have much bigger fish to fry than this load of crapola as we move into the late stages of August.
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The proselytizing issue concerns me, but more than that, I don’t get how CMR thinks it’s okay to name your brother-in-law to ANY position of influence, official or otherwise.
You’re telling me – by sheer chance – the best person to be unofficial/official chaplain at UGA just happens to be your wife’s brother?
Come on, man.
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Cosmic, face the facts, Dude! nepotism has been running rampant in college football for ages. Vince’s brother Bill, Lou Holtz’s son Skip, Bobby Bowden’s boys, are among numerous examples of coaches’ family members in positions of influence over student athletes. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE???
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I am a big supporter of Mark Richt. I believe he us a tremendous coach whose biggest value to UGA is his ability to provide an environment where players can succeeded in life. The Paul Oliver Network is a thing of beauty. However, this type of activity is anathema to everything that is not only sacred to our fundamental beliefs as a country but to what I, a two-time graduate of UGA, want my university to represent. There is no place on this team, in this world, in modern life for the kind of behavior espoused by Mr. Hayes. Keep your dogma to yourself. Do not inflect it on impressionable young men who might look to your approval for how their futures might develope. I have supported Mark Richt thought thick and thin. If he does not deal decisively with this issue, I will have to re-evaluate my support.
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I’m sure Mark Richt is sitting on pins and needles about losing your support.
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You want them to get rid of every trace of Christianity, by sundown if not sooner?
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Jesus loves you Raad.
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It is interesting all our resident Christians seem to not mind Chappy’s conversion efforts, but would march in abject horror if they heard the conversion efforts of the ISIS soccer team’s chaplin.
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AT LEAST THEY’S NOT BEHEADIN’ ANYONE AT GEORGIA, PAWWWLLL!!!
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They are coming. And you know who will be at the head of the headless line. BTW, have you seen the videos of their kickers?
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Did you really compare Christians to ISIS? And the “Senator” jumped right on board. That says far more about you two than anybody whose speech is a little too Southern for Bluto’s oh so enlightened ears. What a couple of turkeys you two are.
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And good morning to you, Sunshine. Nothing like the smell of a little righteous indignation to get the juices flowing.
Mike, I wrote a carefully worded, thoughtful post. I didn’t accuse anyone; I went out of my way not to question the motives of either gentleman. I haven’t slagged anyone for the sincerity of their religious beliefs in the comment thread, which is more than I can say for some of your fellow travelers when it comes to non-Christians.
And yet, here we are.
Either you’re too dumb or too sensitive to appreciate sarcasm, or you’ve chosen to twist my words in a cynical attempt to discredit my point. Since I don’t know you, it would be pointless for me to speculate any further.
But I will say this – based on your comment, you don’t have the first clue about me.
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This organization did not target UGA based on merit but a large group of schools. Their dogma or doctrine is no God and they seek to remove the rights of religious people. People don’t realize how dangerous that can be. People came to this country for the right to practice their religion without government interference not to keep religion out of public life. The role of a chaplain does not violate that.
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Again, I say at the end of this, living in any country where you are a minority in religious circles, you are gonna have to have a little give in you to get along. I don’t mean you have to accept constant proselytizing. But there are gonna be things you may feel uncomfortable participating in that the majority do not. Should they not participate because you don’t like it? Or should you simply decline to participate? The question is, is that actually affecting your situation where religion should not be involved. Your starting position, your ability to be promoted. If it’s not, there shouldn’t be a problem. As a Christian I have lived and traveled in democracies that were predominantly Buddhist or Muslim. I completely understand that I’m a minority there. In those countries the government was much more involved in promoting the majority religion in the US. Somehow, I’ve worked and traveled there and not had any significant problems.
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Should have said much more involved in promoting the majority religion than the US govt. is.
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kckd, By golly, I think you’ve got it!!!! a s I mentioned above, If you’re in a situation where people are praying in a manner foreign to you, simply don’t participate. Just politely sit there, let them do it, and everybody’s happy. if i’m in a restaurant and everybody orders the ribs, i simply order the chicken! “Freedom From Religion” is a personal CHOICE!!!
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They make em take them durn science classes over there too! What an affront.
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It’d be nice if the football program could appoint an Iman (Muslim priest) as a third Chaplin of sorts to give the kids options and another view of religion other than Christianity.
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Who’s the second? And why stop at three?
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I read there’s two Christian chaplins. You’re right though, there should be one Imam, one rabbi, and one unitarian reverend for every Christian chaplin.
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And in the classrooms, there should be one Muslim, one LDS, one Hindu, one Christian, one Jewish, one Wiccan, yaddayaddayadda….for each Atheist teacher. This is only fair.
Fair, I tell ya!
Y’all all need to shove this political correctness and speech policing up your collective asses.
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And you need to walk a mile in someone else’s (non-Christian) shoes.
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Don’t get carried away here Ugly, give all the religions their right to an advisor, but I am drawing the line at Hate Groups getting a spot. No muslims trying to recruit amongst our players. Same goes for Black Panthers and Klansmen.
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The power of a changed life and the positive results produced in that life are worth both the time it takes and the risk of “offending” someone else.
The current age of political correctness has left us mute and afraid to speak our convictions. I applaud Coach Richt and the FCA Chaplain Hynes. If another organization with convictions wishes to speak to the Football players, them let them step forward.
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There are 146 comments to this post at this point.
I think you’re overwrought.
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Ah..but to speak them on a blog where your identity is hidden, where you can hit and run, and where there is no accountability except that which is occasionally handed down by Blutarsky (admittedly, in rare and deserved instances), risks little and takes no courage.
Stand up in classroom and say you disagree with a teacher espousing atheism and you’ll find things to be a little different.
CMR would never hold a difference of religous or lack of religous beliefs against a kid. That statement is easily defendable.
Your child cannot say the same about all of his teachers at UGA or Georgia St. or VSU, etc.
Freedom of belief and speech only works one way for some of you.
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There are people openly complaining every day about Christian persecution without repercussion. Hell, Bill O’Reilly’s making a living doing it.
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I suggest that your very statement is repercussion..not that BO cares what anyone thinks because BO thinks HE is god.
My point isn’t that those who complain of persecution can’t express themselves, it’s that there actually is persecution and it’s overlooked.
However-
Contrary to the tone of my posts on this thread..I admit that I do protest too much.
Honestly, we Christians have little to complain about in this fair land.In fact we are told by Jesus to “rejoice” when we are persecuted. No one has ever laid a finger on me, or held me back in my career for my faith. And I don’t know of anyone whe can’t say the same about their lack of faith.
We obviously don’t have enough to worry about in this country…yet.
When a football player at UGA is persecuted by the coaching staff for being something other than a Christian, please let us know. I’ll be pissed.
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Ah, there you and I differ.
Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I think I’m a wee bit more sensitive about this issue than some of you are. And, again, I understand that.
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And, I absolutely understand why you would have that perspective.
Tolerance and respect will always be lauded in priciple, but lacking in practice. Too bad.
All of this discussion is very healthy.
Forcing one’s belief on others?,,unhealthy.
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I wouldn’t count this as religious persecution, but I have been limited in my career, and know others limited also, because of differing values that stem from religous beliefs. Hard to get ahead in some circles if you won’t party with the boss, take clients to certain clubs, and peddle truthiness from time to time.
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“Honestly, we Christians have little to complain about in this fair land.” No kidding, Ug, and I am sure most non-Christians would agree with your assessment.
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Funny you should mention VSU. The school used to have Vesper services every evening. Bells were rung, and if you didn’t attend, you had better not be walking across campus (or so I was informed). However, a panty raid and an all night riot kinda took the pressure off.
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Christianity is a wonderful thing. And some people take it too far because they think you can never go far enough for Jesus.
Line crossed here IMO.
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I just came back from Turkey, an Islamic “Democracy”. In their public schools kids are taught exactly how to wash themselves before entering a mosque, how to pray, how to read the Koran, etc. etc. And we worry because someone non coercively suggests someone else go to a bible study. You can politely refuse. I do it all the time to Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons.
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Are they married to your boss’s sister? And your official corporate chaplain?
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Nope, but I did have a boss who was a Buddhist. He asked me if I wanted to go to a temple ceremony once. I refused. No repercussions and I didn’t feel the slightest bit weird in doing it. Again, the problem is if it’s forced. We’ve become so dominated these days about not what is actually happening, but what we “feel” is happening. If you make me “feel” uncomfortable then you’re wrong.
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I had a boss who decided all sales meetings would start with a Bible study. He picked the verses. He was in the middle of a conversion from a luke-wsrm Catholicism to a fervent evangelical world view.
After 2 meetings, it was clear several reps were really uncomfortable – not because they were athiests but because they were frustrated with his very narrow and aggressive view of Christianity at odds with their own. It wasn’t bringing anyone closer to Christ except him. And ultimately, is this really about the kids or is it just Richt and brother in law feeling good at the expense of a captive audience?
I asked him to stop and explained why. I invited him to my church. He declined.
He madeymlife quite difficult for 6 months. I was the sales manager, so every dollar he cost me cost him $20.
There are plenty of excellent, non-Constituional reasons this stuff is usually a bad idea. But it does come down to execution. Sort of like a 3 lateral tricknplsy. It can be done, but it’s usually going to end ugly.
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Bulldawg Bill, you say you are a strict constructionist “and if you read the thing” it does not ban “state” religion, it bans “Congress mandated” religion.
Since the whole Bill of Rights (first 10 Amendments) is aimed at limiting the Federal Government, I think the signers meant “Congress” when they said congress- the Federal legislative body.
And since UGA is not a subdivision of Federal Government, but the State of Georgia; the 1st Amendment argument is irrelevant- or should be. But I know the realities of the world we live in is a powerful and ever growing Federal Government. I just thought I would pass these thoughts along to a fellow strict constructionist (and original intentionist!?)
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Buddy, my use of the word “state” refers to the entire Federal government, not to mention the states themselves. So we are on the same page vis a vis construction. I tend to think the intent was to cover the states under the 1st Amendment
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Bulldawg Bill.
Thanks for the reply. I understand your use of the word “state” refers to the Federal Government, not the State of Georgia. I was delineating between the State of Georgia and the word “Congress” which I think clearly refers to the Federal government, which from your last sentence you may understand as my intent.
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Screw these assholes!!!
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Thanks, Fred. I knew I could count on you for nuanced analysis.
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Some people have a way with words.
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I don’t get Fred’s point, Senator. Subtlety is often a problem for me. Can you break it down for the rest of us? 😉
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But how does all this impact who will start at QB? Senator, could you have Bill Connelly run some analysis on each of the three candidates’ level of Christianity and how that will impact each of their chances of winning the job?
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There’s probably an Aaron Murray wisecrack that would fit here, but I’m not in the mood to make it.
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I can still remember being surprised when he started tweeting stuff about Athens Church.
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Was Hynes there when Musa started? If so, how could that have happened?
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See below — Musa was Donnan recruit.
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“First they took Whiskey, then they took Dixie, now we can’t pray anymore”
– Lewis Grizzard
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Lot’s of material here for “Non sequitor”. Some of it mine.
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Wow – almost 150 comments and only the Senator mentioned Arian Foster. No one has linked to it.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13369076/houston-texans-arian-foster-goes-public-not-believing-god
Foster’s story is an individual case but when you look at the fact that he is the only player in recent memory to publicly declare that he doesn’t believe is somewhat astonishing. We cannot know whether his antipathy or apathy towards religion affected his playing time at UT, his draft status, etc. But his story sort of gets the root of why the FFRF has made this request.
There has been a lot of references here to Musa Smith and is relationship with CMR. What was failed to be mentioned is that Smith was a Donnan recruit and CMR was in the first years of his tenure. Also how many people knew about Musa’s religious faith until the ESPN article? Musa Smith was on them 12-13 years ago, can anyone name another major contributor to the UGA who was Muslim since Musa? Does anyone recall UGA signing a recruit who was Islamic in this time? I am not saying that we haven’t but I cannot recall a single one.
I love CMR. I believe he is the best coach in the country right now for our program. I would like to think that he is not making playing time decisions based on a persons belief or faith. I would like think they are not making recruiting decisions based on a persons faith or belief.
But Foster’s experience is compelling and makes me wonder if there aren’t some coaches who err on the side of believing player when the decision for who to sign or who to play isn’t clear cut.
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How about Brandon Kublanow who is currently on the roster and Jewish for starters. I know their have been others because I remember positive stories about their experiences. I can research if you want more names.
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http://www.redandblack.com/sports/faith-and-football-brandon-kublanow-to-play-on-religious-holiday/article_7dd42d8e-49ae-11e4-9c05-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm
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This issue would go away quietly if Mark Richt would get his other brother-in-law to come in here and find us a damn starting QB!!!!
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+1
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We could pray for one. Or have a cookie and just relax over the whole damned non-issue.
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Non-issue indeed! At least until tomorrow night, we are as blessed as ohio and Urbie with three QBs that are so equal in talent/perception/reputation that no one can distinguish between them. You can read in three different posts each of them put as the best, or worst. Let’s leave well enough alone, what difference does it make? It take a veritable “village of QBs” to win a conference championship and get to the playoffs.
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This may have already been said, but for what it’s worth I was involved with UGA’s Fellowship of Christian Athletes program from 08-10 which Chappy was in charge of, and we rarely had any football players attend. With that in mind I’m not sure how much pressure anybody was really feeling.
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I read Dawg blogs to get away from all this liberal bs that is on every other news site. Please stop with liberal narrative, Senator.
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John, as someone who posted eleven other items yesterday at the blog, and at least another eight today, you’ll have to excuse me if I ignore your advice.
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It never ceases to amaze me the hutzpah of some people. John – It’s the Senator’s damn blog, and we don’t pay one red cent to read/comment on it. IF I had a ban hammer, it’s posters like you I’d bang it on. I mean, really, how hard is it to not comment? If it’s not what you want to comment/read on – don’t – Jesus, Mary and Joseph…
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What I find amusing about advice like his is that it’s invariably offered in the midst of 100+ comment threads.
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Ah more liberal tolerance. Ban those who don’t get the hair cut and drink the kook aid.
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Given that the original comment he responded to was about self-censorship, that’s pretty funny stuff there, Mike.
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If you really wanted to get away from liberal BS, it would take you all of 2 clicks – one with your mouse and one with your remote. Same with liberals tired of conservative BS. It’s listening to other views that’s missing.
Irony: whining about people ramming opinions you don’t like down your throat in defense of people ramming opinions you do like down other people’s throats.
Have a nice day.
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What a lot of well-reasoned, thoughtful, temperate responses from Senator and Commenters alike, and overall a pretty gracious debate on a difficult topic. I believe you could have yourself a pretty good country….or football blog….with people like this. 🙂
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What about all the chaplains that are commissioned officers in the US ARMED FORCES?!?!?! Chew on that one for a minute! Anybody wanna try and tell me how wrong that is??
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