For those of you who like to claim that Richt’s strong religious beliefs handicapped the program, how do you explain Clemson’s number one ranking and this?
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Get The Picture · Bloviation for the Dawgnation
Get The Picture 
You make an interesting point there. My Mark Richt complaints were inability or unwillingness to take off the gloves, and judgment lapses. It’s easy to characterize lack of toughness as Christian kindness, but it’s not always the same.
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Mark Richt’s faith and perceived lack of toughness did not get a pass tipped at the end of the 2012 SEC Championship Game. And that’s all that kept Georgia from being in 2012 where Clemson is now. The complaints about Richt’s faith and toughness continue to be laughable.
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Giving up 350+ on the ground because you had no depth bc you managed the roster so poorly that you only had 68 scholarship players might have had something to do with that game as well.
I agree, that had nothing to do with his faith, but is a direct result of his management style, no? And his faith might have kept people from asking hard questions about what he was doing with the roster.
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I don’t recall Dabo looking and sounding soft as well. To the end, Mark Richt showed softness and too conciliatory even in his exit conference.
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Mark Richt showed nothing but class and honesty in his exit conference.
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Those who spoke against Richt because of his religious beliefs, and there were many who did, totally misread the impact of that, UGA benefited from CMR’s outspoken position on his religion much more than it was harmed. I don’t advocate, or prefer, any specific religion but feel Dabo and Richt’s record, and popularity, clearly refute any of the complaints. And I think we could all live without the “help” of the FFR, no one is forced to believe in one specific doctrine. Kudos to Clemson for their handling of this issue, and to Richt and Dabo for being good men and role models, regardless of where they derive that strength.
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Well stated, Mac. The one thing I never got from people who bashed Richt was the religious angle. Talk about strategy, decision making, lack of preparation, etc., but none of that has anything to do with his faith.
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@eethomaswfne plus a whole bunch on that.
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Clemson earned the terms “Clemsoned” and “Clemsoning” under Swinney. Having a special player at the qb position matters in football. Swinney is the same guy that gave up 70 to wvu and couldn’t beat SOS and blew the fsu game when they were without Winston and on and on. As many face plants as CMR had we never got to being mocked like Clemson. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2014/09/21/against-florida-state-clemsons-clemsoning-was-the-most-clemsoning-clemson-ever-clemsoned/
Point is that Jesus has nothing to do with any of it and Dabo didn’t magically get better as a coach in 2015.
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I think Swinney clearly HAS improved as a coach over the years, assisted greatly by his hiring some great assistant coaches (most notably the already nationally renowned Brent Venables). The impact of great coordinators cannot be overstated.
Anyway, Swinney wasn’t ready for prime time when he took over, but he has grown into the role. I don’t know how one can argue otherwise at the end of a 15-0 run, even in the ACC. And Clemson hasn’t really Clemsoned in two-plus seasons at this point.
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That story link is from last year’s Clemsoning vs. FSU, but yeah, great points.
Btw: this is venables 3rd season which means he’s been there for 1/2 of Dabo’s full seasons at Clemson, but again, wonderful insight.
My premise is that deshaun Watson is the difference, not Dabo learned to coach. Historically, there is a remarkable correlation between players and results.
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For those who think Venables is this great defensive mind, watch the Georgia film from last year where we consistently blew his defense off the ball.
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I think your definition of “Clemsoning” is different from what I understand it to be. Losing in overtime to the #1-ranked defending national champions, who ended up 13-1 and in the playoff, doesn’t really qualify.
My understanding of the term is that it meant “losing to an opponent over whom you were favored significantly,” like an unranked Vanderbilt or much-lower-ranked Tennessee team, or maybe getting totally blown out by an opponent perceived to be on equal footing.
Barely losing to the #1-ranked team in the country — that’s not “Clemsoning.”
As to the notion that Swinney has not learned to coach, I don’t think you go 13-0 in a Power Five conference without a pretty good head coach running the show. Swinney wasn’t much of a coach when he inherited the job, but he’s doing fine now. He’s learned some things. Deshaun Watson is a special player, but Swinney recruited and developed him. That can’t be discounted.
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Winston was suspended that night
Clemson out gained fsu by nearly 100 yards
Fsu had more turnovers
Clemson had the ball nearly seven minutes longer
Clemson had a fourth quarter lead
It was pathetic. The article, the headline, and the national mockery were all deserved and not mine.
They are number 1 today in spite of Dabo and because of Watson.
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Because of the uncoached Watson, who lured himself to Clemson, runs practices, trains his teammates, calls his own offensive plays, and hired the people who call plays on defense?
Seriously, man, no team is ever undefeated at the end of a long season “in spite of” its head coach. That’s ludicrous.
Again, I thought Swinney was ridiculous and dumb when he got the job and for a few years thereafter. He was often hilariously inept, and he appeared to be out of his depth.
But he has learned on the job, and now he’s a very good head coach. One player cannot singlehandedly deliver an undefeated regular season and a shot at the national championship. Herschel Walker couldn’t have done it without Dooley — without Dooley, he wouldn’t have PLAYED for Georgia — and the same goes for Deshaun Watson at Clemson.
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All we are talking about is the distance between where they were and where they are. They were, without Watson, capable of beating the vast majority of their opponents. This year they beat them all. The difference isn’t that Dabo learned to coach. To suggest that Dabo was a moron last September and a genius in 2015 and that Watson’s success is Dabo’s is dumb. Dooley could win sec championships without Herschel. He bridged the gap between good and a natty because of Herschel.
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Yeah. I don’t think Swinney was a moron last September.
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And I don’t think he’s a genius now.
I think he was an unprepared rookie head coach when Bowden left, and over the last several years, he has grown into a very good head coach.
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I say Clemson goes back to clemsoning once Watson heads to the NFL.
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Last word. Me, me, me.
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Agreed, “Clemsoning” was earned under Bowden, not Swinney. They’d go on this tear of great performances, then randomly lose to a bad NC State team or somebody like that. Losing on the road to the #1 team in the country and defending national champs just doesn’t qualify, regardless of what that article says. That team was full of players who knew how to win, which helped overcome the loss of Winston. Mind you, I’m not saying Clemson didn’t have every opportunity to win the game – but again, taking the undefeated defending national champs to overtime is hardly “Clemsoning”. They’ve had 2 really bad performances under Swinney. Getting blown the F out the year before by FSU at home, and the Orange Bowl performance. That’s 2 in 6.5 seasons. In the meantime they’ve won games against LSU, UGA, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Auburn, won 2 ACC titles, and have turned the tide against their instate rivals, but yeah it’s all just because of Watson. 🙂
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We blew them out in 2014 in spectacular fashion. That Clemson team laid down in the onslaught of Gurley, Chubb and Michel.
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No one said “all.” They got to an orange bowl w/o him. Gave up 70. I’m saying that they are playing in a playoff game and not just another bowl because of Watson. Clemson hasn’t been at this level in a very long time. It doesn’t correlate to swinneys arrival. It correlates to Watson’s.
No one is saying that this is an 0-12 team without Watson. Georgia wasn’t an 0-11 team without Herschel. I think they won 6 the year before without him.
We were down 15-0 to ut and then went 16-0 the rest of the way with Herschel. Great players matter more than coaches unless you are talking about a Mt. Rushmore coach and that ain’t never gonna be Dabo or Vince for that matter.
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Have you ever had a conversation where you didn’t get the last word?
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Interestingly, that was ensured in our portion of this thread (above), as it no longer carries the option to reply.
In response to Derek’s last point (that Clemson “goes back to clemsoning” after Watson is gone): we’ll see. I seriously doubt it, but time will tell.
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So you’re saying that his debate strategy is to just run a thread until it’s literally spent, not just from the standpoint of argument, but in a technical sense? Get outta here!
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Brings up something I’ve wanted to mention. Despite Dolly’s suggestion otherwise, I have had many debates where I didn’t get the last word because I don’t have a “reply” option. I’ve noticed that sometimes other people keep replying after it appears that I can’t. Any explanation for that?
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You have to reply to the message above it, then it inserts it underneath, if that makes sense.
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Nope.
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Nope, me.
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Deshaun Watson has made Dabo Swinney a much better football coach. It is about Jimmies and Joes as much as Xs and Os in the college game (maybe more so). A good QB for your chosen system helps a lot.
I still don’t understand how we let Watson leave the state without a fight especially in a deeply Bulldog town like Gainesville.
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Same way Homer Jordan went to Clemson and won a MNC from the deeply Bulldog town of . . . Athens. Not mocking, just sighing.
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Great point – that’s some good old school trivia right there
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I’m sure you won’t get many people to bite: Where are the usual posters who like to point to this as a criticism of Richt?
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There are not any. I am pretty sure that it is a theory completely invented by Evangelical Christians to explain criticism of Richt. Kind of like how if you disagree with Obama it is because he is black and you are racist.
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Sh3rl0ck, you must not have read all the comments here over the last 5 years. There have been a lot of arrows slung at CMR due to his faith. I would assume you’re being sarcastic.
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Yes, I was here. Those arrows were not slung due to his faith, they were slung because of his insistence that everyone knows he is good Christian. There is a very big difference. Nick Saban is a very devout Catholic. How much flack does he catch for that? Exactly none.
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Richt’s religious openness almost certainly did not hurt the program, especially since it plays so well in living rooms in the South. My contention is that it simply result led in people not evaluating his job performance dispassionately. I was concerned that it moved the target of what exactly he was being compensated to do.
I don’t follow Clemson closely, so I have no idea what the dynamic is there. My feeling is that Tommy Bowden, who was much like Richt in this regard, was viewed differently that Dabo on the matter. But that’s just an outsiders view. Like I said, I don’t know that much about Clemson.
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Sometimes Dabo acts like the devil got into him. Like when his punter ran against UNC. It was more than just a scolding. He was POed.
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That was embarrassing. He couldn’t even coach the team for half a quarter because he was too busy cursing out a kid.
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There were plenty of valid criticisms of Richt. But the argument that his faith held him back and kept him from winning as much as he otherwise could have is absolutely stupid.
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Thanks Senator. For those of you who are ‘offended’ by Christianity, I would simply ask you to consider this. How many young men were positively affected by the Christian message of Mark Richt and his legacy, and how many were negatively affected? How many were led to do good or better things, and how many were led by him to go on to lives of waste and indolence? Broadly, the Christian message has done more to inspire and aid humankind than any other comparative religion. The spirit of charity which emanates from our country was and is founded in the basic beliefs of Judeo-Christian thought and from no other source. We are not a Christian nation, as in the sense of a theocracy, but we have done more to care and aid for others in the world than any other nation, and I offer the consideration that this underlying philosophy is founded in the historical, and I underline that term, historical philosophy grounded in the simple idea, taken from the Bible: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. In a microcosm, Mark’s most enduring legacy at UGA will be that of instilling those ideas of right and consideration, and yes, even love, for others, in the minds and hearts of young men. He may not have succeeded in every case but his effort was clear and his dedication unchallenged. He fought the good fight. Merry Christmas.
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Your piety is duly noted, Moses. Happy holidays.
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This.
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Not sure if you are being cynical here or not, and this was not a post aimed at displaying my piety. Just a few thoughts based on my perceptions that Christianity gets pilloried by the mainstream media and the left, and for what reason? What has Christianity, as expressed by Jesus, and the underlying philosophy done He espoused to truly harm mankind? The honest answer in real time is nothing. Nothing. I hope you are having a good day, brother Llama. Always enjoy your posts, I must say. Thanks and God Bless you and yours.
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Amen, brother Dawg
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I greatly respected Richt because he was the real deal regarding his faith. For those of you who watched the North Carolina game, I could not imagine a scenario where Richt would have acted they way Dabo did towards his punter. The kid screwed up……but Dabo’s behavior was the real story.
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Dabo’s success has more to do with his energy level in recruiting, motivating his team, and staying out of the way when his coordinators make personnel decisions.
His faith is important, but it is not the reason his team is ranked #1.
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When Clemson holds the invocation, I wonder if they ever consider prayers from the local rabbi or imam?
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Or even a Catholic priest?
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Mark Richt’s biggest problem was not his religious beliefs. Yes, Mark Richt wanted to win championships just as much, if not more, than his peers. Mark Richt’s biggest problem is that he didn’t mind losing.
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