But we’re Georgia! There must be some mistake.

The AP tallies up its records from 1936 to determine an all-time top 25… and Georgia finishes fifteenth.

Yeah, that Mark Richt was a real underachiever by Athens’ standards.

The good news is that Kirby has a real chance to elevate the program into a period of sustained excellence that would surpass what we’ve enjoyed over the past fifteen years.  But some people need to stop pretending that Smart’s here simply to restore Georgia to its traditional greatness, or that the program was somehow being held back from its natural place in the college football world by Richt.

It’s gonna take a lot of hard work over time to elevate Georgia football to a new plateau.  I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Kirby’s got what it takes in that department.

80 Comments

Filed under Georgia Football

80 responses to “But we’re Georgia! There must be some mistake.

  1. Hardcoredawg 93

    That is not a surprising ranking.
    We are fifth in the SEC which is about right where Richt would finish in recruiting rankings versus SEC schools despite the great setup with talent we have in this state.Just because we have underachieved on both of those fronts for a long time is no reason for a fan to accept and be satisfied with that .

    There is a problem when the program’s true gory days were 35 years ago.

    I remember I had some LSU buddies come into town back in 08 and they were laughing about how pathetic it was to still reminisce about Billy Cannon prior to Saban showing up. Similar parallel to us. That may piss some off that were around from 80-82 and I’m sure it was awesome but that was shit long time ago.

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    • Derek

      Except that we clearly were not 5th during CMR’s tenure. We were well above UT during that time and his record vs. auburn was stellar. CMR well out performed historic standards at Georgia. That’s the point. Maybe he didn’t outperform our historic standards to the degree you’d like, but they were outperformed.

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    • DawgPhan

      Recruiting was much better than 5th in the SEC, but dont let that stop you.

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      • Hardcoredawg 93

        Would you agree that LSU and Bama have finished ahead us on recruiting nearly every year for the past 10?

        There would usually be another team – could be Florida, could be Auburn, could be Tennessee- that would sneak ahead of us in this decade. Richt would usually start strong and then finish weak as we came to signing day.
        I know you have the time so go look it up for this the several recruiting classes. And, I said “about fifth”. Sure, there were years where maybe he came in 3rd but that was the exception.

        Bottom line is he was not getting it done in terms of depth. Were you paying attention in the second half of 2011 SECC game or 3rd q of 2012 SECC game as bama ran it down our fucking throat?

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        • DawgPhan

          You are wrong. Dont worry about it. Just can still be bitter. No one is taking that away from you. You are just wrong about this. It’s alright.

          bless your heart.

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          • Hardcoredawg 93

            According to Scout (this is where we finished in SEC)

            2010- 7
            2011- 2
            2012- 6
            2013- 4
            2014- 7
            2015- 3

            That is an average of finishing 4.83. About 5th.
            🖕

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            • DawgPhan

              The problem is that your analysis is incomplete.

              See what you have their is an average finish for SEC recruiting rankings, but not the rank of sec recruiting rankings. You are probably thinking to yourself…hey isnt that the same thing. Nope, it’s not. What you need to do to complete your analysis is run the same numbers for every team in the SEC over that period and then rank the teams based on that number.

              That gives you what you are looking for. It’s what is happening in the article that I linked. It is how most normal people view recruiting over time.

              What you are saying is that if you compared UGA to 4 other aggregate SEC’s they would finish 5th. Well that’s great and all, but I dont think that UGA competes against an Aggregate SEC team. They compete against Florida.

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              • anon

                so you are basically arguing that richt is the most underachieving coach ever to pace the sidelines UGA?

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              • Hardcoredawg 93

                I think most “normal” people just look at the rankings the day after signing day, and eyeball who finished ahead of their team.

                For example, if 6 SEC teams are ranked ahead of us like they were in 2010 and 2014 a normal person would conclude we finished 7th in the SEC.

                No need to over analyze.

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                • DawgPhan

                  And most people’s analysis is horrible when it gets more complicated than just comparing 2 numbers.

                         4 year average   3 year average
                  

                  UGA 273.2825 277.5833333
                  Tenn 256.4875 270.7933333
                  Ole Miss 260.725 255.8
                  Florida 262.025 252.2066667
                  Auburn 273.81 275.9566667
                  UNC 208.4675 209.1433333

                  This is based on the 24/7 composite score which I think is slightly better than doing the rankings because it maintains the scale.

                  I put this together back when all the normals were quite sure that UGA hadnt out-recruited all the teams on their schedule. You have prompted me to fill it out for all SEC teams.

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                  • Hardcoredawg 93

                    You sound like an engineering dork that can’t get out of their own way when evaluating something.

                    Simpler is better.

                    SEC Rank:

                    2010- 7
                    2011- 2
                    2012- 6
                    2013- 4
                    2014- 7
                    2015- 3

                    That is an average of finishing 4.83. About 5th.

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            • GATA 72

              that reminds me 9.7 wins per season…….which is not 10

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        • DawgPhan

          Or going all the way back to feb when UGA beat every team in the SEC in recruiting except for Bama.
          weird.

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    • WarD Eagle

      “There is a problem when the program’s true gory days were 35 years ago.”

      I believe you’re in UGA’s glory days right now. 35 years ago saw some good teams and the Herschel team was terrific. But, what you’re seeing at UGA right now is incredible recruiting classes with terrific results. Depending how things work out with the new coach, how the ball bounces, etc. there may be even more to come.

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    • stoopnagle

      Is that you, Coach Donnan?

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    • It was also an AP poll and was biased. They dismissed any title that they didn’t post.

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    • Reinmart

      @Hardcoredawg 93

      Totally misses the point

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  2. DawgPhan

    I immediately thought of this.

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  3. I guess according to the AP, college football really didn’t start until 1990. No one would suggest Florida had a football tradition until the OBS came home.

    Also, we don’t get credit for the 1942 national championship because the AP poll ended at the end of the regular season.

    I do find it amazing that we had our best run in the polls in the 2000s. I thought that Richt guy was just an empty suit who was only interested in converting players to Christianity and doing backflips into swimming pools.

    As you said, Senator, Kirby’s mission is clear. I’m glad he’s getting the support to do it. Let’s take the next step.

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  4. A10Penny

    The past is the past. Looking to the future, you can’t justify thinking of UGA as the 15th best team.

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    • The Senator can speak quite well for himself, but I believe the point is to all of the people who think that we’re going to start winning national championships at the same rate as Alabama – get ready to be disappointed because 120 years of performance is a large enough sample size to indicate future results. Yes, we have a great high school talent base (I would suggest it’s the best in the country for a state of Georgia’s population) and it’s always been that way. Yes, we have great alumni and fan support. Yes, we’re getting there with facilities and financial support. Yes, we have a great brand. The question is whether all of the pieces fall into place to get us there. The bottom line is win the SEC and take your chances in January. That’s the only thing I’m hoping for.

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      • PTC DAWG

        I just don’t want a run like the last 10 years without a change at the top.

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        • Just a question, but how much slack do you give Kirby before calling for change? How often does a head coach need to win the SEC and, therefore, get to the playoff (assuming it stays at 4) for a coach to be secure in his position? If it’s not winning the SEC, how often does a coach have to be in Atlanta in December to be secure in your mind? What about his records against the traditional rivals (UF, Auburn, tech, Tennessee, and USCe)?

          There’s only one SEC champion now compared to when Dooley was head coach when sharing the championship was possible. You pretty much have to be 8-1 or better in the league (including the SECCG) to win the league. What’s the measuring stick for success?

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          • PTC DAWG

            5 years…that would make 15 without a title. Make a change. SEC Title when I say titles.

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            • I don’t think 5 years is unreasonable. I wouldn’t hold him responsible for the prior 10, which your comment implies. At least you’re being intellectually honest … SEC titles are the only things that matter to you. Do you believe Richt should have been fired following the 2010 season? That would have been the five year mark. If it’s an average of every 5 years, would you have fired Richt after 2011? Just wondering …

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        • ugadawgguy

          Again, the last ten years were part of the winningest run in the long history of the Georgia football program. As decades in program history go, the only run better than 2005-2015 would be 2002-2012.

          That’s the Senator’s point here. I certainly HOPE Georgia can become the type of elite program which consistently wins more than ten games per season, but history indicates that that would be a totally new development in the history of this program.

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    • Derek

      Kirby said its a “top-10 job.” I agree that in 2015 it’s a top-10 job. In 1963, 1988, 1995 and 2000 it wasn’t. You can thank CMR for raising us up a level or blame him for not raising us up 2 levels, but there is no doubt that the perception of Georgia’s potential has never been higher than it is today. CMR deserves credit for that.

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      • I would suggest in 2000 it was the best job that opened up. Richt said it was time to knock the lid off the program. I would suggest it was a better job (top 15-20) in 2000 than UF was 10 years earlier. The Atlanta population explosion had occurred leading up to and following the Olympics. The metro Atlanta high school football was finally catching up to the quality of play below the gnat line. We had top of the line facilities at the time before the arms race for waterfalls started. It was a really good job when CMR took it, and he elevated expectations. No doubt now it’s one of the best jobs in the country.

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      • 81Dog

        quit being reasonable, Derek. The excellence demanders won’t have it.

        Look, Coach Richt is gone. Kirby’s the new guy. Regardless of how you feel about either of them, that’s how it is. It’s not disloyal to CMR to want Kirby to succeed, or that Kirby seems to be making a lot of good moves so far. It’s not disloyal to Kirby to point out CMR wasn’t exactly a train wreck, or that he didn’t exactly leave the cupboard bare.

        Instead of picking at scabs, maybe we should just all focus on what is coming this fall, instead of trying to rewrite history. Whether you liked CMR’s performance or not, he was a pretty damn good coach at UGA. We all wish he had won more titles, but we weren’t exactly Vandy. But, he’s gone now. If you miss him, let it go. If you were delighted he got fired, let it go. Worry about what comes next, and quit living in the rear view mirror.

        I will add this: I hope Kirby has a thick skin, because if he doesn’t exceed what CMR did here, which would be no mean feat, he can expect the excellence demanders to be on him like white on rice in no time.

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        • Derek

          I just don’t see things as black and white. I wasn’t for the change but I don’t want to be proved right. I want to be proven wrong. When donnan was fired my first response was: don’t hire Richt!!!

          I was wrong. Happy to be wrong again. The more wrong the better. The good news is that I wanted Tom Hermann. Chances are good that I’ll be very, very wrong again. I’m hoping that’s the case.

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          • 81Dog

            Me, too! We all may disagree how we got here, but here we are. We all want UGA to succeed. (I wasn’t pointing a finger at you, btw, just an observation). Kirby’s our guy now. Time to move forward.

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  5. Go Dawgs!

    Make Georgia great again!

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  6. I’ve always been amazed at the reality gap between how UGA die hards view the program and how the program has actually performed for 60+ years.

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  7. Highlands Dawg

    To get to the next plateau, Kirby Smart is going to have to find a better way to contain a mobile quarterback. Over Kirby’s time at Alabama, they could not stop these types of high powered teams even with hugely talented players. Georgia will not have the same level of talent as Alabama at least for a while.

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    • Could be proven otherwise, but I thought we generally defended better against mobile QB’s than Bama….anecdotal, but it always seemed like we would shut AU down then a few weeks later AU would run all over Bama. So the idea of Kirby needing to improve against mobile QB’s has crossed my mind a few times.

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      • 1smartdude

        I could be wrong, but I’m not sure Kirby ever slowed down one of those QB’s. They just scored 40+ to beat them. If that trend holds, better hope the freshman QB pans out. No way Lambert puts up that many against SEC caliber teams.

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  8. Macallanlover

    First of all, a compilation of teams based on AP polls dating back for almost a century (much of it without face masks or forward passes) is not something to be taken that seriously. (But how did FU get that rigged when no one had heard of them most of that time?) It should also be noted that ND never played in a bowl game until the last 40 years, and the Big Ten didn’t send but one team to get demolished in bowls until the same period. This hid a lot of “average” teams with higher than justified rankings. Southern schools were penalized by the schedules they faced. USC also benefited from weak schedules.

    I could see them drawing a better “list” if they started with the days of air travel, mixed scheduling, and facing another solid team in bowls, say from the sixties, or seventies. Big 10 still benefits from weal scheduling, looking at you ohio and Michigan. TN is also overstated, ever count the number of their all-time wins that have come against Tennessee based schools (I did once and it was well over 250 if I recall correctly. State Penn also played some horrible schedules as an independent. UGA is about right around
    11-12, imo.

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    • rchris

      Good start to your analysis Macallanlover. Taking it further, we can note that the AP’s whole method of finding the “best teams” is deeply flawed. Let’s start with “One point for every weekly appearance in the AP poll”. How exactly does this determine a quality team? Are you going to tell me that a hot-shot program that gets a high preseason ranking based on it’s proximity to major national press outlets, who rides that ranking most of the year because of a back loaded schedule then loses 5 straight to end the season and falls out of the rankings, is better than a Mr. Nobody school that wins week after week but doesn’t get ranked until it shocks some major schools late in the season and finishes ninth? Next “two points for every week a team was ranked No. 1”, same principle. Lot’s of preseason No. 1’s (Georgia included) have fallen flat on their face later in the season. But they rack up lot’s of points under this system before they fall. Even though Georgia has done this once, think of how many times somebody like Notre Dame, Ohio State, or USC has done this, just because their campus is located close to Chicago, LA, or Cleveland/Detroit/Cincinnati. This metric, like the previous one, measures hype, not excellence. Finally, “10 points for every AP championship”. First of all, why so many points? Is the team that finishes 2nd that much worse than the NC? Also, before the BCS era, fame and prominence had just as much influence on this outcome as the previous 2. In 1946, we had just won WWII and everybody loved Army. That doesn’t mean they were better than UGA. Even during the BCS era there were inequities. In 2007, we didn’t have enough juice in our program to force a NC showdown with LSU, like Bama had a few years later. Speaking of LSU, if it had been UCLA instead of USC, could they have passed LSU for the AP NC in 2003? Was Notre Dame really better than Michigan State in 1966? Heck were they even better than UGA? Also, during much of this period, the AP championship was awarded before the bowl game. Did Bama deserve to get 10 points in 1964 when they lost their bowl after getting the NC? This AP system of rewarding influence and prestige rather than actual results on the field is illegitimate and should be condemned.

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      • Macallanlover

        Nice follow through. Of course the AP assigned a BS title before the bowls, their faves ND, ohio,, and Michigan didn’t really participate, plus the bowl alliances prohibited many teams from ever meeting. AP are crap, and giving a 10 year bonus for getting their nod tilts the playing field. Lot of AP writers in big metro areas dominated the voting and they didn’t see many of the best teams all year….even on TV. Many years the Big 2 Little 8 conference would have two teams in the Top 5, who had faced very little competition, and their winner would vault up the ranking with only the PAC 8 winner to face while everyone else sat home for the holidays and hid. Silly to say the least. All titles before playoffs are suspect and should not be recognized at all, imo.

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        • rchris

          Since 1936, UGA is 10th all time in wins with 599. Bama is 2nd with only 37 more wins than us, at 636. Of the teams ahead of Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Tennessee, and Penn State all played schedules noticeably lighter than UGA’s according to the College Football Data Warehouse. Also, of the teams ahead of us in wins, only Bama has won more bowl games. (Admittedly ND and the B1G wouldn’t hardly play back then, but that’s their choice.) Any system that would rank Georgia 15th over that time is nuts. We Bulldog fans, at least, have got to stop buying into the national media’s narrative of us as a second class program.

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  9. Greg

    Crazy ain’t it, I have basically been saying the same for a few years now. Richt was a victim of his own success imo. I thought we would have eventually got there with him as a coach, we have been close before with him. Although we finished better than I thought we would have in recruiting last year, we were ranked 3rd nationally before Richt was let go. The only good argument that I have seen for leaving things the way they were (with Richt), was the Florida one…….them not winning anything until Spurrier came along in the 90’s. But how many Spurrier’s are there??? I hope McGarity got this thing right….a big chance imo. GO DAWGS!!

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    • PTC DAWG

      Richt was a victim of his last 10 years…

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      • Greg

        Richt was 93 & 38 his last 10 years…a .710 win percent (739 career). Georgia’s win percent before Richt was employed was .607. Georgia joined the SEC in ’32 I believe, they won the SEC outright 6 times up until Richt. That is an average of about every 11.5 years. If you want to look at Richt’s tenure, he did it twice in 15 years – you do the average…..if if it is the last 10 years you want to stick to, he still betters that standard. Again, I believe he was a victim of his own success. I hope that Smart can better than all of this….it was a big chance that McGarity took (link below):

        http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/g/georgia/championships.php

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  10. Skeptic Dawg

    No would argue with Richt’s success from 2001-2005. He deserves all the credit in the world for taking Donnan’s players and winning…and winning big. 3 SECCG during that span with 2 SEC titles. That’s impressive for anyone.

    The problems began in 2006 and lasted through 2015. Yes, historically UGA has been a mid-tier program. Does that mean that we as fans and those charged with running the program should reign themselves to that fact and annually aim to be the 15th best program? I most certainly hope not. I am excited about the future of this program under Smart.

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  11. Atticus

    15th is far short of where it should/will be. Its among the fastest growing states east of the Mississippi along with NC and Florida and the recruiting base and alumni resources are at the top of the list. The largest city in the southeast is right in the middle. Facilities will be there too. Its should consistently be a top 10 program and win the SEC a few times a decade and compete to get in the playoffs.

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  12. Columbus Dawg

    Richt had his ample chances to win a natty, but always seemed to step on it in one way or another. His decision to throw Shock out there to throw a pick in the UF game in 2002, his pathetic showing against South Carolina and Tennessee in 2007, and his awful run defense in 2012 come to mind. All that being said, the Associated Press is and always will be a bunch of pencil necked media types that have never played the game, and never should have been given a say in said game.

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    • The pick 6 against UF in 2002 … ugh! Also, in that same game, the “forward lateral” call against Pollack when he handed the ball to Sean Jones on a pick 6 … Of course, the drop when Terrence Edwards could have been said in the same breath with Lindsay Scott. George Foster getting a personal foul that resulted in a missed FG.

      That game will be one that forever haunts CMR if he never wins a national championship.

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    • Greg

      All that and he is STILL “above the standard”. No worries, we have a better coach and staff coming in……we will get that elusive MNC.

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  13. SouthernYank

    Take that tally with a grain of salt – it doesn’t weigh for where in the Top 25, unless you get the extra points for a #1 or championship – a point for a Top 25 appearance. Meaning, a perennial Top 10 program – that was never #1 or won a championship, could be ranked the same as a team that finished 20-25 each year.

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  14. CB

    That’s pretty accurate. Outside of Herschel Walker’s tenure Georgia has always been historically good, but not great.

    However, I don’t understand how A&M is even on the list. By my count they haven’t been a national title threat since the 30’s, and outside of Manziel’s two seasons they have largely been more popular for collies, male cheerleaders, and losing to Texas.

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  15. charlottedawg

    I don’t understand why this is such an either or issue for people. Did Richt take our program to new heights and is arguably the best coach we’ve had do far? Yes. If Kirby wins a championship in the next couple years will it be partly because of the foundation Richt laid? Absolutely. Does it mean Georgia fans are unrealistic to expect our program to consistently sign top 5 classes, keep a Roster stocked with 85 legit scholarship players, not get blown out annually, & actually compete for championships? No especially given we sit in one of the conference’s most fertile recruiting grounds and metro Atlanta in 2016 is far different (i.e. has way more football talent ) than in the Dooley days. We can’t just sit around and say “welp we’ve historically been mediocre so that’s all we can expect “. By that reasoning Florida should have never expectedtowin an sec title bebecause “hey we’ve never won one before spurrier got here so why start now”. The first part of achieving something of significance is not accepting mediocrity especially when it’s been the status quo.

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  16. Greg

    No issues……I just expect more than Richt’s accomplishments from the new staff.

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  17. B-rad

    Every team ahead of us has won a title since 1980

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  18. Charles

    There’s a good argument to be made that Georgia’s natural place in the CFB world is different now than it once was. The population growth of the greater Atlanta metro, the per capita football talent in the state, the weakness of other instate programs and divisional opponents, the growth and improvement of UGA as an institution, and the advantage in resources afforded by the SEC are all reasons that we should be relatively more successful than we once were, all other things being equal (which they are not).

    I don’t intend that as an indictment of Richt. I do, however, have the sense that we should be an elite program.

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  19. GATA 72

    I bet Richt is using the U’s position as 13th in the poll as negative recruiting against uga!!!

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  20. I think I am going to comment on this, laud my comment via a sock-puppet, then proceed to write a dissertation with the sock-puppet. Some people need to get out of the house…..

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  21. Eli

    I’ 66years old, been a Ga. my whole life and the only glory years were Herschel yrs. That was also the Jan Kempet era and we had a lot of Jrs. in remedial math and english ciasses..Richt could have won two nationial champships with two plays, tipped pass in Alabama game and Wagers flag againist L.S.U..

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  22. That ranking system is probably only semi-subjective. But, do you really care that much about the past anyway?
    As for the Richt recruiting and winning arguments, my thought, first about recruiting, is that Richt placed too much value in skill players and too little in OL and DL. Because of this, his recruiting rankings are somewhat skewed. A little higher than they should have been. Regarding winning, I think there was a detectable fear in his eyes coming into the biggest of games, and that fear transferred to the players.
    I don’t think you’ll ever find a better man than Richt to coach your son, but that fear was his downfall.

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  23. The Bruce

    “We never lost a game when we weren’t hurt or cheated.” -Dan Magill
    The Georgia Bulldogs are the greatest of all time, as Dan Magill is the greatest Bulldog of all time, and he said so. All other arguments on this point are invalid.

    And all I have to say to those piss-ants at Ohio State is, “Did James Brown write a song about you, or play your halftime show? No? Then go fellate yourselves.”

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