Not that it’s any big surprise, but Kirby Choates announced his departure from the team.
Y’all enjoying the sausage making process yet?
Filed under Georgia Football
I’m enjoying them leaving if they aren’t good enough to start and it frees up a scholarship. McKenzie is the outlier for declaring but there have been all kind of academic rumors to date suggesting that it was either leave or get kicked of the team…
Love the new process!
Are you really in favor of booting a kid who signed a scholarship at UGA because someone decides that a HS senior might be a better player?
If a kid is trying, showing up and achieving academically do you think it’s cool just to give him the shoe because it might theoretically contribute to a w?
Should they boot out students in favor of student he admin thinks might do better? “Son we know you’re a junior with a 3.5 and you’re busting your ass, but there’s this kid who made a perfect score on his SAT, so back your bags.”
Story indicated he was “dealing with academic issues”
Didn’t say choates was “processed.” I’m asking a general question about “processing” kids generally. So far, there hasn’t been an indication that we’re practicing the same sorts of roster management tactics alabama has used. I fear that may end before June though. We’ll see. My fingers are crossed that we can maximize the roster doing things the right way.
You’ll probably get over your hang ups by the time you swing by Wal Mart to get your picture taken with Larry Culpepper and the trophy. 🙂
Granted I have never had my picture taken at Wal-Mart with or without a throphy but I cannot imagine that it would be worth compromising my values. I don’t believe in making a commitment to a kid and then reneging on it just because someone else is better.
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It clearly said he has academic issues…are you really that dense, or just enjoy trolling this board? Me thinks the latter.
Biggen started with: “I’m enjoying them leaving if they aren’t good enough to start and it frees up a scholarship.”
Those who are literate understand that I was responding to HIS FUCKING WORDS, moron.
Were you dropped on your head as a child or are your parents siblings? My guess is both. Me thinks it preferable though that your father beat the shit out of you due to shame causing additional, irreparable cognitive dysfunction.
Nope. Ertainly no trolling here. Move along everyone.
You put this in the wrong spot. You really meant it to be below PTC DAWG’s post where he incorrectly called me dense, right? Or is “trolling” a description entirely based upon your subjective ageeement with the substance of the post?
Trolling right along…nothing ever changes.
But you’re doing something completely different right? GFY.
I’ll pass, meanwhile, you stay classy!
If you can’t take the time to read before casting aspersions, you get what you get and I couldn’t give a damn about what you think about it.
Derek is correct. Biggen wasn’t speaking of academics.
Terribly comparison. The university isn’t held to 85 enrolled students, are they?
Roster management and how a program deploys the 85 bullets they have is IMO the most important aspect of a coach’s job.
The question isn’t about “importance” it’s about ethics and fairness. It is arguable that a University president’s job is to put the best, most qualified graduates in society that it can find.
As far as limits, yes there are limits. If every hs graduate abandoned the Ivy League, Stanford etc… and they all applied to UGA, there would still be a cut off of admissions by number. Now if you could get rid of some juniors and free up space….
At the end of the day the question is about how you treat other people:
Do you fire an employee because a new person might be marginally better?
Do you get a divorce because you’ve found someone slightly better looking?
Do you go to your kids soccer match when UGA is playing?
Does loyalty matter? Or is life about maximizing your own personal interests and not giving a rat’s ass about other people?
You either get the importance of maximizing every single one of those 85 scholarships, or you don’t. They are the closest thing to an equalizer across D-1 football.
I have seen no evidence that Kirby is “processing” kids or treating people poorly , and in fact Nick, Sony, Carter, Bellamy, and Sanders would seems to fly directly in the face of that.
But you do you. Push your narrative.
Fuck me!!! When the hell have I said that we are? Where? I’ve said the opposite TODAY!
I was responding to Biggen first damn sentence. That is all. I have no narrative about Kirby. I’ve got one about Saban. I’d like that gulf to remain. I’m just not sure how alone I am in that.
” I’ve seen no evidence that Kirby is processing kids or treating them poorly”. While all situations have two sides, the Carter kid and the Blankenship family obviously disagree with you. I’m not calling Kirby out by a y means but then again I can’t say I see nothing that doesn’t cause concern either.
I didn’t say all treatment was “optimal.” Didn’t like how Blankenship was handled. No reason to say the kid didn’t deserve it. As for Carter, I don’t think changing EE status is the same as greyshirt, but I agree that it’s in the area anyway. Still I’ve seen nothing similar to how saban built alabama. So long as we stay we’ll short of that example, I’ll live.
Fairness……since when is LIFE fair? I’m all for rescinding a scholarship if that player will never play meaningful snaps and contribute..Hard times are everywhere. I agree you should treat people right, but when a person is given a scholarship to play football it is under the assumption that person will contribute to the team if not C YA FUCKING LATER
You’re clearly suffering from congitive dissonance. You say you want to do right by people while endorsing fucking people over because “life ain’t fair.” It is true that life isn’t fair. Among the reasons it isn’t fair is because there are complete and total assholes in this world who fuck people over. You can choose to be among those who:
Fuck people over
Turn a blind eye while others fuck people over
Or you can choose to:
Not fuck people over
And resist those who do.
The choice is yours.
Hey douchebag these kids are expected to CONTRIBUTE to the team in return for an education if they can’t CONTRIBUTE they should not get that education. What about those kids taking a scholarship that are not making contributions to the team?, they are fucking over the University…..You my friend win Blind Liberal of the Century
Derek I apologize for the name calling it’s uncalled for. I see the scholarship as a business agreement. UGA gives them the opportunity to get an education in their chosen field and get some other perks as well. In return they are to contribute to a football program and if they can’t crack into a rotation for meaningful snaps in any of the 3 phases of the game then they are in breach of the scholarship agreement.
I was drafting when you posted this. All I can say is that when you sit down with a kid at mom and dads house and promise to take care of the kid as your own, you don’t bust him to the curb because you’ve signed better players at his position. CMR gave tony Milton a scholly when he was living out if his car. Not a great player but he contributed some. Had we signed a Todd Gurley, a Nick Chubb and a Knowshon during his eligibility he may never have played. Are you gong to send him back to live in the car? I wouldn’t. I think that’s wrong. If tony can’t play that’s on the coach. Maybe he shouldn’t have gotten the scholly in the first place, but once extended there’s an obligation to the kid period.
In Milton’s case that’s all on CMR he extended a scholarship to a kid that wasn’t going to contribute very much, as noble of a gesture as it may have been it didn’t help the University win games. I want UGA to win championships and not hand out charity scholarships.
He helped us beat UT in 2003 on a fourth and 1 as I recall.
I use him as an example because he was a maginal talent at a position where it’s not unheard of us to have a glut of talent and we can get it in a hurry. I just don’t see how you justify running a kid off when he has no control over the fact that subsequent signees may be much better players. That’s not grounds for termination of a scholly imho.
So loyalty and decency doesn’t matter to you. I’m glad you’ve made that clear.
Your lack of respect for loyalty and decency no doubt contributed to your vote for Russia’s favorite candidate. Good job you traitorous douche nozzle.
All hail Mein Führgrabber!!! сделать Россию великой еще раз!!! (Make Russia Great Again!)
Are these the same Russian hackers that could not have possibly hacked Clinton’s private server…..I feel sorry for anyone who would support a liar of Clintons level…..I don’t like politicians no matter what side of the aisle they sit on, Trump isn’t a politician which is why so many people in Washington are scared of him, they’re afraid he is going to expose them for what they are, but anyway you won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours so I will leave politics out of any comments I make to you from here on out.
….since when is LIFE fair? Actually most of the time. But because sometimes it isn’t…that justifies cutting people’s throats? Good grief…right is right and wrong is wrong. Don’t try to justify wrong just because it exists. Do you rob old ladies just because you are stronger? Humans are set apart from lesser species because we don’t abide by survival of the fittest like coyotes, spiders and snakes…we look after the weaker members of our tribe. We care..at least we once did…some still do.
Maybe we should hire a bag man and pay players..since other schools have done it and improved their programs without getting caught…aft
And Derek, who I’ve disagreed with sometimes, is being misunderstood here, although I think he’s made himself clear…He was responding (initially) to Biggens statement that he enjoys seeing them lose their scholarship “if they aren’t good enough to start”. I guess we only need 22 players and a kicker with that formula…but I understood what he meant..if they aren’t good enough to play..That’s what Derek was attacking and rightfully so..it’s stupid. If you start doing that there will be a backlash from High School coaches and counselors who actually care about the kid they’ve mentored…they’ll steer him somewhere else..So besides being just plain unsavory, the practice of booting kids for lower than expected skills and performance would eventually be counter-productive.
There is nothing in the scholarship agreement that conditions it on a player performing at a certain level. It does require the player to perform academically and follow team rules. You are advocating the coach unilaterally imposing conditions that are not in the scholarship and were expressly disavowed when the coach was negotiating in the parents’ living room.
You comfortable with a player insisting on terms not in the scholarship agreement?
I’ve got no beef with your urge to explore that sentence in the first comment, but, your analogy isn’t sitting well with me because of one thing. Kirbys boss is paying him a large salary to win football. The job Kirby accepted has much more of a pass/fail, cut throat, hard ball set of decisions. The money, power, and branding all make the “sorry kid, you’re being cut” situation likely. It’s become more like an NFL roster management environment, which aligns nicely with all the amateurism quips the senator likes to throw around.
Kirby’s boss, it might be pointed out, who is also the president of the university, that boss, there.
That is a poor analogy. The better comparison is a third year “second semester freshman” with a 1.2 GPA on 18 credit hours completed. Should someone who is struggling be encouraged to go to a more suitable institution while admitting someone more qualified in their place? I would say yes.
I could be wrong, but I am under the impression that the kids are not having their scholarships pulled; I am pretty sure that they are just being informed that they are buried in the depth chart and that their chances at playing time is very small. If playing time is important to you, you may want to transfer to a more favorable depth chart. Some stay (ex Ryne Rankin) some leave (a lot of others).
I don’t have a problem with: “dude your future don’t look bright round here. We’ll pay your way and keep you around if you want, but you’re free to consider other options.”
I have a problem with yanking schollys, imaginary career ending injuries and last minute greyshirts.
I agree. I don’t want to see greyshirts period. And if we get more than one or two medical dq’s in any given offseason, the red flag is up.
Agree with this totally. Honest assessment, no pressure, athlete makes the final call.
When did we yank a scholly?
Dammit! I never said we did! What is going on with the reading comprehension around here today?
Because you’re implying that Kirby is going to.
I don’t read, “I am not accusing Smart of yanking scholarships” as an implication that Smart is yanking scholarships.
That doesn’t sound like the case here.
But, if a kid is making the grades and putting the effort in where asked then no – I personally don’t think they should pull his scholly because somebody better shows up. That’s BS in my opinion.
I have a friend that was a pitcher at another college back in the 80’s (really good too) and lost his scholly after having Tommy Johns surgery….and subsequently never finished college. Maybe they don’t do that anymore but if so it’s total bullshit.
Agreed. Saban calls is it the “process.” CMR didn’t do that to kids. I hope Kirby won’t or the AA won’t let him.
What about Mark Richt dismissing players over misdemeanor charges, especially where that player isn’t a highly regarded recruit? Seems harsh is a very different way.
I have 0 problems with behavior related dismissals. If you can’t tell the difference between communicating that playing for Georgia is a privilege and running kids off to make room for new players, I just don’t know what to say. Are you saying that grounding your kid for a bad grade or a mistake is pretty much the same thing as stealing money from him in that they both might be considered “harsh?” One is a judgment call and the other is amoral.
Jesus, Derek, its like you WROTE this damn article or something. Why do you have an axe to grind? The kid was not playing. He was not making it in the classroom either. That’s all, end of story let it go for fucks sake.
I just asked Biggen a question. He eventually game a fair and reasonable answer. All other posts are direct responses to my own. Sorry you’ve got a problem with the posting “process.”
I don’t know what the unintended consequences would be, but I think all schollys should be 4 year agreements…with only active team members counted towards the 85 limit. If you keep a certain GPA you can finish college regardless of your sports career. As was noted, it’s not like the university is going to suffer from a few dozen extra students….and that leaves both parties some flexibility.
Also, if your kicked off the team there should be no restrictions on transfer or waiting period unless its due to a criminal offense or violation of team rules. Then you wait….just to keep that future Auburn graduate from robbing a liquor store so he can move to the plains.
This shit shouldn’t be this hard.
Booting kids? No, of course not. Unless they broke the rules…
But Choates is transferring and NOT being booted. Im all in favor of kids transferring if they arent getting the playing time they want or are having academic issues. Id rather free up thise schollys for new blood.
I’m not sure if this is “The” process or even a “new” process. It happens all over the country this time of year and especially if there is a new coach. I wish no ill will toward any players leaving but the players leaving, that have been in the system and not contributing to any high level, is necessary to make room for new recruits we might not otherwise get. Hopefully better players. The current class looks great and could get better. Of course we thought Choates looked good when we recruited him…
Agree… this is no longer the Richt model.
I think this happened on Monday or Tuesday but thanks for keeping us up to date!
That wasn’t why I posted, but you’re welcome.
Are we enjoying the sausage making process yet?
I dunno. Does anyone get much joy out of seeing departures from the team? I would hope not.
But I would enjoy seeing the program reel in an elite recruiting class, which (as of now) would be more talented than any recruiting class Richt pulled off.
I will also enjoy a break with our practices of undersigning, negligent roster management, and recruiting classes in the top 10-15 range.
Kirby has a job to do right now: upgrade the talent on this roster in a big way. With a new coaching staff and an infusion of top shelf talent, these kinds of departures are inevitable.
Upton Sinclair describes “the process” of making sausage.
To answer your question, yes.
I’ll enjoy seeing Kirby and Co. coach up to the talent level, which is where my significant doubts lie.
Guess he’s freeing up one for Rodrig! (Sic)
I have zero problem cutting kids. There is not a single competitive sport that guarantees your spot on the team for 4 years outside of college athletics. There is a reason that scholarships are/were(?) year to year. Johnny is not the player we believed him to be? Bye Felica. Move up or move out. Not a difficult concept. Playing a college sport is not a right. You have to earn that privilege and then continue to prove that you belong on the team.
the problem I have with the type of cutting you talk about is how limited the options are for the kids after they are cut.
If a player who was cut from UGA could find an opportunity @ Tech, Florida, or even Southern and play and contribute the next season, then the cutting becomes easier to take.
But now when you cut a kid from your program you also just took away one of his years to play college ball and that seems too much for me.
Well said, DP. When USC medically disqualified Jarvis Jones and he came to Georgia and had to sit, that was totally unfair to him and to Georgia. When Saban pulls a scholarship from a player on the team for reasons other than academics or behavior, the player should be able to sign and play immediately with no restrictions. I find the practice to be abhorrent and completely opposite of what the college experience should be.
When did it become the schools responsibility to look out for the athlete they signed even after they were cut? Shit happens in life. You dont always have someone holding a safety net under your ass.
If they are being cut, odds are they arent good enough in that sport anyway and wont have much (if any) of a career. Time to move on…
Every competitive sport that offers 4 year contracts guarantees to the player the benefit of that contract over the 4 years. That is why Al Hrabowsky was still getting checks from the Atlanta Braves 30 years after his last pitch. I disagree with the premise of your analogy.
There is only room for 1 Kirby
I am not sure why there is a reference to Choates and others leaving as a sausage making process. Over the 15 years prior to CKS being here, there has always been attrition this time of year. They left to go pro, they left because of a lack of playing time, they left because of injuries and were advised to quit, they left because of grade issues, personality conflicts, etc. Why is this sausage making? If it is because we have a killer class coming the only thing I can say that I love sausage. I’ll take a second helping.
Yes. The results on the field this year were discouraging, but in one year Kirby completely demolished one of the biggest program deficiencies (# of players), raised recruiting to the highest level ever (one of the most – if not the most – important factor to winning), and has done so in an honorable way.
I’m not ignoring the issues that rankle the idealists, like pulling the scholarship offer for Carter, no scholly for Blankenship, etc. But for a first time head coach, he’s handling these issues a lot better than many other coaches.
This is a sign of the times and we should expect more stories like Coates and Blankenship in the immediate future. A player better be on the 2 deep or have potential to be there. Big time college football is a business. When in doubt, a coach should simply ask, “What would Alabama do?”.
If it is a business treat it as a business. Pay the players market value and tax the profits the UGA AA makes,
Don’t treat the parts you like as a business and the other parts as a part of an academic endeavor.
All other discussions aside, I’m sorry it didn’t work out for the kid. I remember his signing video and the pure joy he and his family displayed that day was heartwarming. I hope he gets it all together and lands on his feet. Best of luck to the guy.
I would add this. Recruits have a choice when selecting a program. They can test their talent against top level players or enroll at a lower level. When they’re identified as lesser talents, they still have choices. Stay and not play, transfer or quit. It’s a tough world out there.
When my son was in high school, we had a conversation of, “what would you rather do? Sit at North Carolina or start at UVA?”
What say you, Blutarsky?
Don’t get the angst with Choates’ situation, no where near the complexity of the Toeneil, or Rodrigo situations.
I don’t get the vitriol against Kirby. Attrition isn’t something new at UGA. It wasn’t unusual for CMR to lose half a dozen players or more a season to various forms of attrition.
One example: Did we really do a kid like WR Terry or OT Benedict a favor by honoring their schollys after they were seriously injured before entering school? It’s the ‘feel good’ story of the year, but didn’t help us win one game. And both those players ended up leaving.
Hey, separations suck – especially for a young kid with a fragile ego. Are we doing them favors by coddling them? They are expected to maintain grades, compete on the field, and act appropriately off field. When they don’t, I’m not sure what keeping them on the roster accomplishes.
If a school does decide to cut a players scholarship and he/she wants to stay at that school, find a way($$) to let him/her stay at the school. Sure there are $$ out there to keep them on some type of scholarship. Just do not dump them out on the street. Help them get into another school, if possible.
It is not the NFL yet. Close, but not yet.
That being said, if I were a coach, I would be using the best players I could find. If it meant letting some go, I would do it, but they would be able to finish somewhere(here or there) on a scholarship of some type. Otherwise, you would be killed on the recruiting trail.
It is a cut throat business and the players need to realize that. Still just do not toss them out.
Weve entered the era of semi-pro college sports. Get use to it.
It will be a whole lot easier to get used to it following an 11-win season, I betcha Homes. 😀
If they are student athletes, then processing is unethical, immoral, and hypocritical. If they are employees, its part of doing business in a competitive world.
Precisely. If they are employees then they get permanent disability workers comp benefits for injuries, can choose to collectively bargain and conferences cannot impose a cap on earnings.
If it is a business then it gets all the trappings of a business.
You know there’s a reason kid’s have to qualify academically to go to the school in the first place. They are (try not to laugh out lout) supposed to be students first..UGA’s charter probably mentions the actual reason for it’s existence and I doubt it’s football. So if you dismiss a kid for academic reasons, that’s reasonable because he is failing in accomplishing what the school has given him a seat in the classroom to do. It’s an Institution of Higher Learning. It the kid is poor, and many of the athletes are, and you pull his scholarship for poor on-field performance, you have effectively caused him to transfer to a different school, thus hurting him socially, academically, financially, emotionally and probably a lot of other “ly”s that I haven’t though of. As long as he’s really trying…keepiing the rules…and seriously pursuing a degree…it’s wrong..it’s very wrong…to make his performance on the field the primary reason he is enrolled.
However, if not for their ability to run fast, jump high, and throw it far, a lot of these kids wouldn’t even get admitted to school in the first place.
Talk to a lower division football player or any level basketball or baseball player. Their scholarship – or partial scholarship – is no more guaranteed than their trip to the moon.
That’s just the way it is in college athletics. Football has historically had had more scholarships and more room for folks to hide, but players have come abs gone for all sorts of reasons for a long time.
It’s also wrong to assume that players and their parents don’t know what the deal is.
The odd thing about the exodus of players is the lack of offensive linemen. I thought guys like Madden, Baker, Allen, Hardin, etc. all stunk so bad they weren’t worth playing time – even with one of the all time worst OLs. Why are they sticking around?
Yet DBs who merited some playing time like McGraw, Briscoe & Choates are gone.
Guess I’m just trying to make sense of this organization’s actions when it comes to how players are utilized.
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Offensive lineman tend to be the more intelligent guys on the team. Maybe they are staying because, God forbid, they want an education from the University of Georgia.
First off, unless you know a kid or his family personally, you don’t really know exactly WHY they’re leaving, and it’s better for everyone involved not to air their dirty laundry in public. So all the talk about “fairness” and “processing” and “sausage-making” is just hot fucking air. Unless you have actual hard information, the way you see situations like this will depend solely on your own pre-conceived views of the coaching staff and the narrative that you have chosen to attach to them.
Secondly, let’s step back for a second and realize that these kids are PLAYERS. They want to be on the field actually PLAYING FOOTBALL. If it becomes clear that a young man is never going to see the field, why in the world is it considered “unethical” to not be truthful and tell him that he’d have better opportunities elsewhere?!? Too many people in our society get smoke blown up their ass by their friends and parents telling them how great they are, which is a disservice to THEM. It’s far more valuable to people to give them an honest assessment of their status.
Third, it’s not like these kids end up on the street homeless if they no longer play for Georgia. I would venture to say that any player recruited by us is good enough to find a scholarship available SOMEWHERE, even if it’s not at the highest level. If anybody has any actual EVIDENCE to the contrary, showing that leaving a big-time football program ruins people’s lives, then I would be interested to see it. Otherwise, you’re all just pissing in the wind.
We don’t know how many times he missed the mark academically. After a few times, aren’t you put on academic probation? If you are on academic probation, you can’t play football, right? If you are on academic probation over and over, isn’t that a sign that maybe you should make a change? Do we know if the decision to transfer was made by Choate or Kirby or both? I agree with The Bruce, if you don’t know these things, then shut your pie hole.
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