GTP reader ApalachDawg alerted me to what I guess is technically a non-football story about fallout from North Carolina’s notorious bathroom bill, but is nevertheless worth a mention for the punchline.
The law, introduced in North Carolina last year, mandates that transgender people use the bathrooms matching the biological sex on their birth certificates.
Its introduction last April sparked a wave of controversy and prompted Bruce Springsteen and Ringo Starr to cancel concerts.
It emerged yesterday that the law could cost the state over $3.7bn in lost business over the next 12 years, with PayPal, CoStar, Deutsche Bank, Adidas and Irish outsourcing giant Voxpro among the major companies to axe investment plans because of the law.
Speaking from New York last night, Voxpro’s Dan Kiely said North Carolina was one of three states earmarked for a new Voxpro office last year.
“But when it became clear that this law was being introduced, we just scratched North Carolina off our list. We didn’t even visit the site.
“The law runs completely contrary to our core values. I am proud to work alongside trans and gay people. The diversity of our workforce is what makes us who we are.
“Our investment instead went to Athens, Georgia, where we hope to reach 500 jobs within the next 12 months.”[Emphasis added.]
Welcome to Athens, folks. Hopefully you won’t have a problem with the local bathroom issues we’re struggling with.
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Perhaps the liberals in Charlotte should not have passed that ordinance which forced the Repuicans in the legislature to pass that billl?
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Bad liberals, making the legislature act against its will! Bad, bad liberals!
It’s hard to believe Voxpro didn’t put the blame for its decision where it really lies.
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Look at Voxpro’s comment about standing with LGBT’s. It’s quite easy to see why they didn’t
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Turn your sarcasm detector on.
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So, local control is only good when Republicans are the ones locally in control? Got it.
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If the liberals in Charlotte hadn’t passed that ordinance, the Republicans in the legislature would not have passed that bill
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Right Wing Political Correctness. Sooo much better than Left Wing Political Correctness.
Since this law passed, I’ve seen women in men’s bathrooms and men walking into women’s. Never saw that before the law passed. Which is kind of ironic.
So much lost for a bill that “solved a problem” that never existed until the Right Wing Outrage Machine decided that Bathroom Boogiemen could help them win elections.
Now, NC is stuck. The legislators who passed this crap can’t go back, even after promising to do so if Charlotte rescinded their ordinance (Charlotte did, NCGA broke its promise).
This is the same legislative body that thought about banning research professors. And gerrymandered themselves into failsafe districts.
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I think it’s funny. The liberals started this and now the GOP leaves the law in place because liberals are being hurt by it more than conservatives
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Yeah, that’s what 21st century politics are all about — not governing, but hurting the other political tribe. Hilarious!
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NC is about 50% conservative. When the state loses jobs and revenue, that affects everyone in the state, conservatives included. Of all the stupid, uninformed commentary I’ve seen on this subject, your’s is top 3
Congratulations
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I do think if you have female body parts you go where women use the bathroom or shower. I feel the same about those with male body parts doing the same. That said…why didn’t they just pass an ordinance that had “unisex” single bathrooms? Heck the Starbucks in my neighborhood has them. Now no one can claim anything. One bathroom, one user. Just my $.02.
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We were in Vancouver last summer for a couple of days before a cruise and went out as a family for dinner. The place had one restroom with 4-5 individual stalls (no urinals) and locks on each individual door. Everyone shared a bank of sinks with no door to enter the area. Problem solved.
I’m no liberal by any stretch, and I thought it was smart. You deal with the problem and only have one set of facilities to keep clean.
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I like that approach as well. Provide a separate bathroom for access by anyone. Just don’t legislate this false construct – “I FEEL like a woman, even thought my DNA proves I am a man, so I MUST go into a woman’s bathroom” – an absurd fiction if there ever was one.
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Yeah, I can think of a couple of fictions more absurd that we allow to dictate quite a bit of our social policy.
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I was just in DC this past weekend and literally every private business I entered provided two unisex single bathroom stalls. It wasn’t that complicated. Everybody waited in one line and jumped in the first available. Shockingly, no women or children were harmed in the process.
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To all you folks who think this law was supported by a bunch of knuckle draggers, let me posit this theoretical example: I have a five year old granddaughter. My daughter in law goes into Target. While there with my granddaughter, she has to use the restroom. While in the stall, with her daughter standing next to her, for her protection, a 45 year old man who claims he identifies as a woman, walks in, walks up to the stall and exposes himself to both of them. My daughter in law and granddaughter are subject to understandable emotional trauma. Now, of the parties in this example, who is the most vulnerable? The man? I am fine if you want to pretend you are something you are not. Just don’t ask me to do so, particularly when my granddaughter is involved. I am fine if you want to live in a delusional reality. Just don’t legislate it to be mine.
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Why isn’t there a hypothetical door on your hypothetical stall?
And if this is all about exposing yourself, why does your hypothetical pervert need a hypothetical bathroom in the first place? Wouldn’t any hypothetical public space work? And isn’t hypothetically exposing oneself a hypothetical criminal act subject to hypothetical arrest and prosecution, regardless of a bathroom law?
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Anger, anger, anger. You didn’t bother to answer the question. Who is the most vulnerable person? And why are you so diametrically opposed to protecting a five year old girl? I thought broad minded people had the rights of all people concerned? I guess she does not matter to you. And as far as a ‘hypothetical’ example, which you apparently hold in derision, it is and has been a ‘real world’ event, so not hypothetical at all – look it up.
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Dude, you’re confusing anger with amusement.
If all you’ve got in response is a series of straw man arguments, it’s hard to take you seriously on this.
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Exactly. Theoretical.
Aka: Boogeyman.
Imagine this: Target has security cameras. Those cameras record people walking into the store and heading into bathrooms. And menacing people in the bathroom is already against the law. Even in your theorerical, HB2 is not necessary. Complete overkill relative to imaginary problem.
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Hypothetically, your granddaughter could tell you when she got out, then you could hypothetically alert management, hypothetically notify the authorities, hypothetically file a police report. Target to could hypothetically then pull its security footage to hypothetically identify the individual, then hypothetically turn that information over to the police and allow law enforcement to take the appropriate next steps. Hypothetically, of course.
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I live in Charlotte. When I (a male) take my 5 year old (a female) out to run an errand and she has to go pee pee, what should I do? Well, I don’t want her to pee all over the floor at the Target, so I guess I just have to hope that the cops don’t arrest her!
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If I remember correctly, I thought the bathroom provision of HB2 only was relevant to government buildings (I may be wrong – I moved out of NC before the HB2 became the law so haven’t studied the issue in-depth). I believe Target still can do whatever its customers want in terms of bathroom policy. Regardless, you could probably take your daughter into the men’s room in the Charlotte city hall if you needed to without danger of being arrested.
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Hell Roswell, anyone can make up an example to fit their particular narrative… have a little more sense next time and maybe someone will take you seriously.
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Much like the issue of reimbursing college athletes, this issue pits conservatives vs. liberals. You can guess my feelings as a conservative. Politics, it seems, is affecting athletics more and more, and I am sure each side will blame the other for the ongoing slide of amateurism and the student athlete. Whatever our personal views, overemphasizing the physical and athletic side of the equation, while winking at the mental and educational side, is hurting both the university and the players; I wish the NCAA cared as much about that as they do about a state’s political views.
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Only in America would people who support the socialism of college athletics call themselves conservatives and free-market advocates liberals. LOL.
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I don’t think conservatives in the classic sense are generally opposed to compensation. Maybe it means I’m a liberal on this issue, but the labor market in college sports is dysfunctional. No real conservative or libertarian would agree to price/wage controls like this. Similar to the ways employers skirted the wage controls of the 30s and 40s with benefits (especially employer sponsored health insurance), universities are skirting the rules by providing miniature golf courses, specialized free academic assistance and other benefits to athletes that aren’t available to the general student population.
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I’m not sure but I think the academic assistance is not free and is available to all students. The athletic association pays the tutors as part of the scholarship. The athlete lounges and game rooms and miniature golf are another issue. I’m not sure how the athletic programs get around not allowing regular students to use those if any of a students activity fees goes to athletics.
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The tutors are employees of the athletic association, they work in the learning center only accessible to athletes, their services are free to the athlete, and these tutors are not accessible to the regular student. I know about this because I worked for the university as a tutor for the general student population as an undergrad. Some of my colleagues would leave the job with the university and get additional pay from the UGA AA. They also had to work nights and other things I didn’t want to do, so I was fine with my 10-12 hours a week.
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Exactly. Those labels mean nothing anymore. They’re just a lazy way for people that don’t want to think critically to self identify (and spare me the outrage, that insult is meant squarely for both sides).
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Socialism? No. Education worth what, 250,000.00, being enough? Yes. And “labels” may not be liked, but they do describe fundamental, profound differences of opinion between citizens.
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Why do you get to decide valuation? Or the NCAA, for that matter? Why not the market?
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Because we are supposedly talking about college students, not professional athletes. Valuation, market value, salary, etc. are terms to describe professionals, IMO. Why can’t receiving an education be of value? Doesn’t a degree mean anything significant? In the long run, developing mentally and educationally is way more important to these young men than developing physically.
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Because the colleges and universities don’t act like it is meaningful when they admit athletes that have no business being in a college classroom and create bullshit majors that serve no purpose other than to hide athletes and keep keep them eligible.
I honestly would be more sympathetic to this argument if the athletes weren’t the only people in this entire system expected to hold up the “student” end of the phrase student-athlete.
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You’re right. That is the problem. We no longer have student athletes. So why don’t we all push for change academically? Why aren’t we up in arms about sham degrees? More importantly, why doesn’t the NCAA address this issue? If the academic issues aren’t addressed, the whole thing will continue to move toward a AAA baseball farm league type of system. Salaries, IMO, are just another (wink wink) step toward the abyss.
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I would be more sympathetic to this argument if it weren’t for everyone else involved in delivering the product to consumers being paid as professionals. If “developing mentally and educationally is way more important to these young men than developing physically” is the case, why aren’t their teachers and tutors paid as much as the coaches and athletic directors?
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Teachers have never been paid well. That’s nothing new and far beyond my level of understanding.
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It’s a function of the free market, my friend.
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Actually, tenure is anti-free market. In the long run, tenure is not merit-based at all, unlike football coaches and their performance. Coaching reflects the free market a lot more than colleges and the tenure system; maybe that explains some of the disparity.
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First off, there are plenty of teachers without tenure. Second, tenure is negotiated between the school and the faculty, which isn’t exactly anti-free market. Third, you keep claiming coaches are paid based on their performance; there are many Charlie Weis types out there to refute that claim.
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There is nothing capitalistic or American, frankly, about deciding what is or isn’t enough. The market bears what the market will bear. It could be more than your arbitrary $250,000, it could be less, or that number could be spot on. We don’t know because a cartel exists that circumvents a free market.
I’m with the Senator – I can’t figure out why a group of people that claim to subscribe to a certain ideology will scream to the high heavens about letting the free market solve every problem America faces become staunch socialists when it comes to this discussion and feel that they, and not the market, can decide how much is enough for you.
I’d think a true conservative would be all about letting the market solve this problem. No – I think there’s other reasons (consciously or sub-consciously) that people staunchly oppose paying college athletes. I think this article highlighted an interesting study on the matter, although it’s certainly not conclusive as social science is hard to come to concrete conclusions. Without a doubt, some level of opposition to college athletes being paid is driven by racial resentment (as is true in most walks of life). However, I suspect there’s a lot of jealousy at play. Anecdotally, we’ve seen that discussed in comments here about how hard certain commenters had to work to make ends meet in college and would have killed to just have a scholarship.
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Whenever one of the sports blogs venture into a political topic I usually close the tab and don’t bother because most people, including the blog owner do not take the time to research in detail. But since this is the second one related to the HB2 bill in NC its time to make a point. NC’s GDP is 495 billion per year. With a 1% growth (which is very conservative, over 12 years that becomes about 6 trillion dollars of GDP. 3.7 billion lost revenue over that same period is less than 1%, so No, the HB2 has not damaged NC.
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Here is a link where I got my facts and the story at the link refers to a Washington Times research at the past year.
http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/03/23/exploring-economic-devastation-nc-one-year-anniversary-hb2/
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Restate and Washington Times.
There’s some balance.
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Funny, but that’s how I tend to react when I read something from a commenter lacking in reading comprehension skills. There’s nothing in my post about North Carolina being “damaged” by HB2.
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Here is the link where I got the figure:
http://theresurgent.com/how-many-rapes-is-0-058-of-the-gdp-worth/
Senator, must have been muscle memory that made me close the tab first and then come back and respond 🙂
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I do enjoy your blog 90% of the time, thanks for what you do 🙂
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Appreciate that, Kevin.
I got a kick out of the story because of the Athens angle. Apparently, that sentiment isn’t shared. 😉
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I kept reading to see a comment on that part of your post, Senator. I thought everyone would be all over the increased perception of the Golden Triangles patina formed by their backasserdly legislation, but most of all, thought we would all revel in Voxpro’s Athens move that sorta’ shines up our halo a little. Instead of mo’ bathrooms in NC, we have mo’ money in Athens. Because of bathroom usage. Five hundred jobs is a hefty addition to Athen’s economy and hopefully some of that largesse will flush over to our stadium ( new Voxpro-sponsored bathrooms ?).
I came from an industry that shipped company growth to Ireland and, although I haven’t tried to keep up with it, it appears that a reversal is in process with other companies that originate in Ireland – I mean when a company with three facilities in Cork and offices in Dublin, S.F., and Folsom ends up investing $4M in facilities in Athens… Wow! The fact that the same sort of legislation was nixed in Georgia now shows that there is a localized reward to the city that can signal the beginnings of a Golden Triangle for Georgia with our University as a Center of Excellence
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Man, I feel like I need a shower after skimming over that article.
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Threads like this one bring out the worst in some folks, IMHO..
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Senator, I love Athens gaining 500 more jobs, as the surrounding area has been hammered over the years by people pulling up stakes and leaving. My uncle’s employer of 35 years did just that not too long ago.
Anyway, as it relates to HB2 and the local ordinance, it was all purely, naked partisan politics, with no actual care to helping people who are dealing with gender dysphoria. If that weren’t the case, the local ordinance wouldn’t have been rescinded once a Democrat became governor. That was issue #1 for me.
2nd issue was the broad strokes used. School and gym locker rooms and showers were included within the ordinance. There are no “stalls” in locker rooms and most showers in schools. there is no privacy and that absolutely does create a scenario where a biological male is in a locker room with biological females.
Poorly drafted ordinances(laws) are issues on both sides of the aisle. the Ordinance was badly drafted and HB2 was overly broad in response. Both sides love demagogueing the other in fundraising emails and ensuring their re-election without actually doing anything. Sounds similar to our beloved AD.
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Agree mostly, but the fact that Republican demagoguery started all this and must be confronted is a meaningfully reasonable part of the problem discussed. That’s the way the Republicans have flown for many years and really began when the demagogues in the southern part of the Democratic Party flipped to the Republican side. I voted for many of those politicians before they flipped simply because no Republican representative was in competition on the ballot. I can’t recall ever seeing anyone challenge Herman Talmadge. My point is that the Democrats didn’t- did start this whole thing that is now the Republican Party conservative right wing and that operates at a high level of voter intimidation of social issues that try to progress towards the future.
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I’m 32, can’t talk about things before my lifetime.
As to the ordinance and HB2, the governor told the charlotte council that if they put the ordinance in place, as written, he would be forced to take the issue to the state legislature to overturn and block. The council went forward with it and McCrory responded. Both were nakedly partisan and cynical in their efforts. Neither were acting in good faith.
Actual people who said this was a bad ordinance were called bigots. Actual people who said that HB2 was also bad law and overly broad were said to want creeps and perverts in bathrooms with little girls.
This was a perfect example of why we can’t have nice things in this country anymore. A legit issue facing people who don’t feel their physical bodies match what they feel they are, how to reasonably and compassionately accommodate them was turned into the train wreck we’ve been watching. Middle ground can be found to respectfully enable peace for the gender dysphoric, and protections in place to enable the 99% of bathroom/locker room users to feel safe and free from imposition. Both sides decided to take the most extreme option available.
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The ordinance was rescinded on the promise by the former governor that the NCGA would rescind HB2 in response. They didn’t.
Charlotte’s ordinance was a symbolic affront to a minority of N.C. voters – but it only got there courtesy of some serious hot air by the usual suspects on the right. No one pulled a job out of Charlotte over it.
And no one has explained how the solution and cost of HB2 fits the theoretical threat of someone using the cover of HB2 to expose themselves or peep. Or how current law doesn’t already cover that affront.
HB2 meanwhile has seriously damaged the state. In addition to the bathroom provision, it allows people to discriminate against homosexuals (based solely on suspicion). It has sent a staggering number of tech initiatives searching elsewhere for a home.
“Both sides are at fault” is like punishing equally a younger brother who borrowed an older brother’s shirt without asking and the older brother who broke his jaw over it.
No.
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This is a rant with a preconceived notion of the situation that doesn’t match the historical record. Other than that, A+ ranting that the stewpid rednecks ruined everything.
if you can’t acknowledge the depth and nuanced nature of issues discussed in my 3rd and 4th paragraph, then one might get the impression you aren’t looking for a discussion.
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I guess I’ll be the first one to note that an “outsourcing company” bringing jobs is an interesting sentence to read.
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