For Mike Leach, the SEC might not mean more…

… but it’s certainly louder.

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68 Comments

Filed under Mike Leach. Yar!, SEC Football

68 responses to “For Mike Leach, the SEC might not mean more…

  1. Aladawg

    He’s an ESPN instant classic.

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  2. JG Shellnutt

    I could listen to that guy all day

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    • Okay.

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      • JG Shellnutt

        Awesome

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      • Because if you’re a coaching genius like Leach, who cares how many plays your defense has to defend? When have we ever seen fatigued defense having to play too many downs in the second half result in blowing a big lead and losing? You know except for the championships last year at both the pro and collegiate level? I mean OTHER than those two recent times in championship games who gives a damn about ball control?

        I get it. He’s entertaining. His offenses are exciting. He’s unique. As far as football goes he’s mouse Davis, June Jones, Hal mumme, chip kelly and all the other Paul westheads of the gridiron that simply do not understand that football is a game won and lost along the LOS. Football is not intended to be a finesse game.

        I wish those guys would have landed in soccer. Now there’s a game that could use more scoring. Personally I’d rather watch LSU/Alabama throw haymakers at each other for 60 minutes in a 9-6 game than watch teams line up empty first and goal at the 1. It’s disgusting.

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        • Wazzou is 47th nationally in plays defended.

          Georgia has defended more plays this season.

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          • 3rdandGrantham

            Damn. Talk about dropping the mic and stutting off. Derek loses yet again. I think I’m going to start calling Derek the Washington Generals, or dubG for short.

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            • Is it oatmeal this morning? Maybe corn flakes?

              Tell us. What did the host have for breakfast?

              You’re an embarrassment to the obsequious.

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              • Otto

                Who pissed in your Cheerios?

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                • Mr. “Let me run in and give my buddy a handy for a job well done” that’s who.

                  He does this constantly and it’s disgusting. He’s like a puppy dog. Transparently and consistently servile. I don’t like “yes” men. It’s ok once in awhile to share agreement but when he’s interceding every fucking time to ride the hosts nuts anytime anyone disagrees with the host, it’s just not an attribute I admire. I loathe it.

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                  • Otto

                    I get more annoyed with people ranting with false arguments.

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                  • 3rdandGrantham

                    Dude, you clearly either haven’t read or conveniently have ignored the litany of posts over the years where I disagreed with SB. Hell, there have been several occasions where I’ve basically called him a DA for posting whatever he posted. I recall a recent ADGM post where I basically ripped him a new one over it; I also recently scolded his 9 win season prediction back in August as woefully off and obviously not being truly in-tune with the program itself (I’ve been in the 11+ win camp since spring and, thus far, my prediction looks dead-on)

                    I’m an equal opportunity offender or debater. It just so happens that you’re really, really bad at arguments, so you’re an easy target. Nothing more or less.

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                    • Dude, is this going to be like the time you denied giving advice on good men’s dress sense so I had to go find it and post it in full? Dude.

                      Maybe your occasional tiff is why your up his ass most of the time trying to ingratiate yourself. I don’t know why you’re a bootlicker, I just know it when I see it.

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          • I’m pretty sure that wins and losses don’t count as a “stat” so it may not be of great value but in 15 years as head coach he tied for a division championship that one time and lost the tie breaker.

            He’s the jerry Glanville of college ball. Similar pass happy offense, unique personality, great quotes and zero titles of any kind.

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            • He’s coached at Texas Tech and Washington State, hardly power programs. Both are tucked in the middle of nowhere and lack the resources of the top schools in their respective conferences. He’s managed to make both relevant nationally.

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              • And you say big time college AD’s don’t know what they’re doing in hiring. Maybe they are like broken clocks but they all seemed to have gotten that one right.

                Jerry coached two nfl teams that have never won a super bowl. I guess that’s why he never got either of them a division title.

                If WSU doesn’t blow up this season, and they probably will, perhaps some dumbass AD will give him a shot at the big time. We’ll see. I sorta hope that excuse goes away and he falls on his face at a football school.. At least I know he won’t be coaching in Athens. That’s what really matters.

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                • You think Wazzou’s AD made a mistake hiring Leach?

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                  • No. And Paul Johnson is a great coach for tech. Let’s just not pretend that they are actual, big time college head coaches. They ain’t. They have unique offenses that work at a school that doesn’t attract high caliber players. For WSU or Tech, those guys can be useful. Replicating what Saban does at those places would not work. I don’t have a problem with people being entertained by the guy. Just don’t piss on my back and tell me he could walk into say Gainesville, FL or austin, tx or Columbus, OH and do anything but get embarrassed. If those places maintain their sanity in this respect, he won’t get that chance. If they decide to give it a shot, they’ll regret it.

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                    • 3rdandGrantham

                      This thread perfectly encapsulates Derek…I mean, dubG – he went from Leach’s defenses having to defend too many plays (though, alas, not as many as UGA or many others) to Jerry Glanville to college AD’s actually being smart all along; contrary to public opinion. Moving the goalposts is what dubG does best.

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                    • You are bouncing all over the place with this. First it’s the defense. Then it’s Leach’s won-loss record. Then it’s dumb ADs. Now we’ve got a straw man that Leach has never won at Florida.

                      Maybe he could, maybe he couldn’t. I haven’t a clue because it’s purely speculative. All I know is that plenty were skeptical about Urban Meyer’s offense when he arrived in Gainesville and that worked out fine. Also, don’t forget what Leach and Mumme did at UK in their short time there.

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                    • Let me square the circle.

                      Regardless of stats, Leach is not interested in playing football in any traditional way: defense, ball control, field position. He’s about throwing the ball. A lot. That makes for mediocre results most of the time. Look at Leach’s head coaching career and the results are largely mediocre and there is a glaring absence of titles of any type. Wins and losses and titles over a 16 year head coaching career are a more significant indication of achievement than a random stat over a 5 game sample.

                      Houston isn’t a big time program. Memphis isn’t a big time program. Utah wasn’t anywhere close to a big time program and they produced guys that won consistently there and got shots at schools that expect to win football games. Perhaps it was easier for Fuente and Hermann and Urban to win at those places than TT or WSU OR perhaps those guys are just better football coaches.

                      The issues regarding Urban in the SEC was whether his qb could survive it. First, he modified the offense for Leak and inserted Timmy when appropriate. In short he was remarkably adaptable after getting completely thrashed in Tuscaloosa.

                      He then got a great tough ball player to be his starting qb and that offense clicked. Moreover, urban doesn’t play finesse. When OSU played Oregon they beat the fuck out of them because one team was playing football and the other was playing bb on grass.

                      You may not want to speculate about what Leach would do at a big time school and that’s fine. I’d say that reflects exactly what I am suggesting. Even leach’s proponents aren’t sure he has it him albeit they aren’t as convinced he would fail as his detractors are.

                      UK went 12-11 in the two years Leach was there. After Mumme left a dumpster fire Rick Brooks over a 4 year span went 8-5, 8-5, 7-6, and 7-6. So leach’s time at UK was no high water mark for the program but maybe there’s “stats”?

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                    • Perhaps it was easier for Fuente and Hermann and Urban to win at those places than TT or WSU…

                      Perhaps it’s easier to win at a mid-major program than it is as a small fish in a P5 conference? Ya’ think?

                      By the way, nice cherry picking on UK’s history. Before Leach got there, Bill Curry’s record at Kentucky was 26–52. Guy Morriss succeeded Mumme and went 2-9 in his first season.

                      Meyer walked in to a talent situation at UF that Leach could only dream of. Doesn’t mean Meyer underachieved, just that you’re comparing apples and oranges and still believing it’s definitive. More power to you.

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                    • “Regardless of stats”? Well, I won’t waste my time bothering with those anymore.

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                    • By the way, one more pesky stat for you:

                      1998 Oklahoma offense: 101st in points scored
                      1999 Oklahoma offense: 6th in points scored

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                    • Since you’re playing it forward from Leach at UK, how did Tommy Tuberville, who actually won an SEC title, do at Texas Tech after Leach?

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                    • Perhaps the real problem is that while a genius at coaching he’s too dumb to wait for a real job to come open so he can show us all his awesomeness?

                      You’re right in that Leach, Tubs and Dykes never won anything at TT.

                      SOS did ok (twice) at a middling school in decent football conferences. As did Harbaugh. Name escapes me (McCarty?) but there was a coach that took Colorado to high places as a middling team in a football conference. Snyder has done ok at KSU. Miami hadn’t done much before Schellenberger. It can be done and has been done by coaches that value running the ball, defense and physicality irrespective of where they land. What hasn’t been done? Chucking and ducking to a title.

                      I’m sure that Stanford, Boulder, Manhattan, Columbia and Duke are just easier places to get it done and either Leach is too dumb to wait on a good job or the ADs are too dumb to give him a shot. What a shame?

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                    • Leach has a division title to his name, at least.

                      We’ll never know if he would have accomplished more at Texas Tech.

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                    • Thorn Dawg

                      Actually, Leach landing in Gainesville gives me a mini nightmare. That offense with the athletes available in Florida? No thanks. Stay in Pullman.

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                    • Leach won a division in the same way Goff (‘92) did. Tied and out of the championship game. Not impressed.

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                    • Not impressed.

                      I already knew that. Just waiting to hear something concrete in your reasoning.

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                  • 3rdandGrantham

                    Ever been to Lubbock? When you’re on the final descent in, it looks like you’re about to land on Mars. Then you get off the plane and the place honestly looks like Mars, with a giant fan set to high blowing wind right in your face. I think they might, might have a Panera Bread, so at least they have that going for them.

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                  • Concrete?

                    You tell me who has won more football games/championships?

                    Guys who have played traditional, physical, defensive, field position style football OR guys who have tried the Leach, Mumme, Mouse Davis, June Jones, Chip Kelly basketball on grass brand of something that ain’t really football?

                    The entire history of football is my concrete evidence. You cite the Leach approach to football and all their Super Bowls and Natties it has earned. That will be a very short list. I’m not sure there any, but try. I’ll take the rest (practically all) of them. You show me that list and it will be the end of the discussion.

                    Hell here we are 5-0 having discarded a somewhat passing qb-centric approach and turned into a team that doesn’t care whose playing the position but you’re going praise Leach’s ultra-passing qb centric system? Really?

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                    • Look, I get that you don’t have any respect for Leach’s offensive philosophy.

                      I keep pointing out that there’s a consistency to his record — every place he’s been on a D-1 level has improved during his tenure. Stoops won a national title running the Air Raid. Leach has a respectable coaching tree out there. Lincoln Riley is contending for a national title right now running Leach’s offense at Oklahoma. Like it or not, the Air Raid is an influential system in both college and pro football.

                      All of this pales in significance compared to Justin Fuente’s hire at Virginia Tech, where he’s won a division title, much as Leach did.

                      If I say that I’m impressed with your passion on the subject, can you call that a win? Because you’ve really come up with nothing else as convincing.

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                    • I conceded long ago that Leach and CPJ are fine for middling schools. They can take bad teams and programs and make them respectable. CPJ could dominate at a place like Alabama, right until the recruits quit coming.

                      Jerry Glanville took an atrocious falcon team and made them relevant. But that’s just where it ends. They are good for a certain purpose but they don’t belong in the category of great coaches because they’ve done well at bad places.

                      My frustration isn’t that Kansas couldn’t go .500 if they hired Leach. My frustration is that people seem to think he could win big at a UT or UF or OSU. That’s just laughable.

                      There’s no question but that these guys have contributed things to the game. They are innovators trying to get lesser players score against better personnel. Of course people are going to steal some of that. Why wouldn’t they?

                      At the end of the day though it’s not the cute, tricky or exotic team that holds the trophy. It’s going to be the team that plays football the way it was intended to be played that wins out.

                      Call me a purist. I still bitch about the DH. It’s a stupid fucking rule!

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          • McTyre

            Don’t bother – he’s on a roll – with another you-know-what’s-been-eating-at-me rant not necessarily responsive to the post or relevant facts.

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            • I don’t know why he seems so pissed all the time – being the smartest man in the world and all…..

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              • 3rdandGrantham

                DubG indeed is pissed all the time. He could win the Powerball lottery, and during his press conference where they hand him the giant check for 178 million or whatever, he’d be sitting there with a giant frown on his face before laying into the lottery commissioner for the egregious amount of taxes he has to pay on the winnings, which will all go to some BS foreign war he has no interest in supporting.

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                • From what I gather about his political leanings, he would have no problem with the taxes. He would feel guilty about winning the money, but would not donate any of it – all while bitching about the capitalist scum of the world.

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                  • The problem in the country is that people see everything through an ideological lens. If you lean left, your opponent is a Nazi. If you lean right your opponent is living in a hippie commune.

                    I’m non-ideological. I think ideology is an intellectual trap. I’m a pragmatic, independent thinker who doesn’t want to prove that a nanny state can function properly or that you can have economic Darwinism and a healthy democracy.

                    I’m simply interested in what works, period. Facts are stubborn things and they should be recognized and taken into account rather than discarded if they don’t fit your particular confirmation bias.

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                  • Everyone either lives in a hippie commune or is a Nazi right? No nuance. No in between.

                    Me and Bob Corker and Rex Tillerson agree: he’s a chaotic incompetent and a fucking moron. If that makes me (us) Karl Marx than so be it.

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                    • Derek, you called me a Nazi the other day on here because I compared one of your rants to Jamele Hill’s tweets. You sir are full of shit.

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                    • The suggestion that people ASSUME that those who disagree with them must be Nazis is entirely different from demonstrating that you are in fact a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer. Not that there’s much light in between as far as I’m concerned. Its entirely possible that someone does in fact live in a hippie commune as well. I just don’t think that being opposed to Trump is sufficient evidence of that.

                      As far as the Nazis around here: I have said and continue to say that if ISIS sympathizers got a permit to march in Athens and burned the flag and chanted “death to America” and “chop the infidels heads off” and if some good Americans decided to go beat the living fuck out of them, I wouldn’t say “both sides.” I’d say “good. They deserve it.” Moreover, they earned that ass whupping and they should get what’s coming to them.

                      If you think white nationalists, Nazis, and the Klan are better than the ISIS sympathizers I described above then you are a Nazi or a sympathizer. If you don’t think those ISIS sympathizers should have their asses kicked then you’re a panty-waste pacifist.

                      Its clear. You either think someone should have beaten the fuck out of those chanting “Jews will not replace us” or you think that BS belongs in our national discourse and that people who beat the hell out of Nazis are bad but people who beat ISIS sympathizers are bad.

                      You decide for yourself whether you are a Nazi or not. I’m just here to tell you the natural consequence of your opinions on matters such as Charlottesville. Trump self selected himself as a Nazi sympathizer. It could be, as the GOP Senator from Tennessee has said, that he is simply incompetent and it may be as SOS Tillerson has said that he’s simply a fucking moron. I just think that’s far too kind. I think he knew exactly what he was doing: giving aid and comfort to people who do not believe in the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence. They would amend it to say: WHITE, CHRISTIANS are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

                      Jefferson wrote “all” and that’s where I am on that issue and I’m happy to see the tree of liberty watered with the blood of those who can’t find it in themselves to commit to “all.” There is only one right side on that issue and any American leader should have the moral clarity to recognize it and to say so.

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        • Mad Mike

          TL:DR “You damn kids get off my lawn dadgummit!”

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        • The other Doug

          The idea of Leach at UT Knoxville, Florida, or Auburn with a solid DC like Charlie Strong makes my stomach turn a little.

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  3. 81Dog

    Dale Brown, another coach who was a walking quote machine, once said about a player “That guy is a winner. I would crawl across 100 miles of burning sand to listen to him piss in a can.” I kind of feel like that’s how we should all think about a Pirate Mike presser; that’s how entertaining it is.

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  4. Mad Mike

    The Dread Pirate is easily the most entertaining head coach in the game.

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  5. 3rdandGrantham

    Love how he gives props to us/Sanford Stadium. And all these years we’ve been telling ourselves how quiet Sanford is due to all the old fans, open endzone, etc. Props.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Macallanlover

    Not just the Pirate, almost the entire Big 12 and PAC 12 are full of coaches who place too little emphasis on defense, or utilizing their best athletes on defense (the latter actually starts in HS in those areas…they are products of what they see on TV in those areas.)

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    • Wazzou is top twenty nationally in defensive yards and defensive yards per play this season.

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      • Mad Mike

        Their DC’s last name is Grinch, that’s perfect.

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      • Mayor

        I have been following Washington State football ever since Mike Leach became the HC. He is a perfect fit there IMHO because Pullman is a little bit off kilter too. Actually, the improvement on D is the real reason for Wazzu’s improved record. The O has been pretty consistent for years. The D started improving a few years ago and the Cougars’ won-lost record immediately took a turn for the better. I think the Cougars are going to win the PAC 12 North this year (of course they have to get past Washington to do that) and if they do they will likely win the conference championship game. If that happens Leach is in the playoff and anything can happen.

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      • Macallanlover

        Yes, they are much improved but it doesn’t keep Leach interested as he turns his back on the field and gets into the offense’s meeting on the sideline while the defense is out there. I love Leach, his eccentric approach to life and football is refreshing from the standard coach-speak, cliche machines. I am surprised he even has a punter, he would much prefer to run another offensive play and go for it. I believe, he believes, that anything he has in his mind will work.

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  7. Don’t ever change, Coach Pirate. I did like that he threw out how loud Sanford is among all the others SEC schools. #ItJustMeansMore

    Although he needs to work on his multiplication, 45,000 x 5 is 225,000 not 250,000.

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  8. Russ

    This guy is great! I’m reading his book right now and he is just confirming what he wrote in the book about the loudest stadiums. Hilarious. “Is Autzen the loudest?” “The loudest in the PAC-12.”

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  9. Kevin

    Leach is one of the best, if not THE best, offensive minds in college football. Look at what he is doing at Wash State of all places. If he wins the Pac-12 this year, watch out. I hope he does not wind up at Tennessee.

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  10. ASEF

    I honestly cannot stand the cult of personality Leach has cultivated among the media, but there’s zero question that he can coach and identify promising assistants. He is going to get a shot at a premier school sooner rather than later, and if he has an effective AD who can serve as a buffer between Leach and booster demands at said school, he will win there, too.

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    • Honestly – I don’t know that he wants to take on the headache of a premier school with the booster demands and meddling AD’s. I think Texas Tech was, and Washington State currently is, perfect fits for him and his personality / approach to football.

      Andy Staples had a <a href = “https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/09/22/mike-leach-career-washington-state-key-west>”what-if” column up at SI a few weeks ago about what college football would have looked like if Leach had gotten the head coaching job at a Key West high school that he actually wanted instead of sticking with Hal Mumme at Valdosta State and following hiim to Kentucky.

      The short version – it ended up with the Air Raid sweeping through the high schools in the state of Florida and its SEC / ACC schools instead of the Big 12 schools and Tim Tebow and Urban Meyer winning a national title together at Oklahoma instead of Florida.

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    • Otto

      I disagree with this, Leach is not a PC coach speak bobble head which is a result of the media. He also is not coach that insults media for questions, asks why we are hear, asks the coke bottle or blames fake news.

      How many head coaches give such any explanation of why a stat is garbage or answers a question stating the conference he currently plays in is mid PAC at something any brag about?

      I don’t always agree with him, and he is likely an eccentric nut. However if I could go to dinner or spend a day with any head coach currently in the game, he would be near the top of the list.

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  11. <a href = “https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/6/29/15897042/mike-leach-90-minute-phone-call-lincoln-riley>This is still quite possibly my favorite anecdote from Lincoln Riley about Leach.

    He picked it up and said, “Hey, how’s it going?” And then he listened for a second and asked, “Where ya calling from?”

    He kept talking on the phone and I eventually sort of tuned out. Now, a short phone conversation for Coach Leach is an hour. So he was talking about this and that, and I was kind of hunkered down working on my own stuff. At some point, the call got dropped. They must have lost reception. Coach said, “Can you hear me? Are you there?”

    Then he closed his old-school flip phone, swung it back open and redialed. He said, “Hey, sorry I lost you.” And then they resumed their conversation for another 30 minutes or so before Coach finally hung up.

    After he was done, we started talking and I said, “Hey Coach, who was that on the phone?”

    And he said, “Oh, they had the wrong number.”

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  12. 69Dawg

    After he was fired from TT he was back home in Key West. One day my wife and I were walking by BO’s Fish Shack (local fish place with broken down pickup truck as a sign) and who comes out of it but the Pirate. I walk over and say Hi Coach and he stops and starts talking to me like he knew me. I had on a Georgia hat and he started talking about Valdosta State, and then moved on to how much he respected Erk Russell. Long story short he has to be the most approachable head coach I have ever met. He just has a interest in so many things and he does stream of consciences so well I think he’s great.

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    • Russ

      In his book, he spoke in glowing terms about his time in Valdosta. Said it was a great place, really enjoyed the people and said it was great place to raise his kids. He also said it was the only place that he cried when he left.

      I felt similarly, but I cried when I got there. 😉

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      • Mayor

        I cry when I drive through the place but stop crying and start smiling when I get on the other side–whichever direction I’m going. 🙂

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