Today, in real world economics

Grant Newsome is a Michigan football player… er, student-athlete, who has a few bones to pick with a certain organization.

Maybe some of y’all can fansplain to Grant how it’s really not in his best interest to get paid for his likeness.  The poor kid really sounds mixed up there.

132 Comments

Filed under The NCAA

132 responses to “Today, in real world economics

  1. PharmDawg

    Grant Newsome’s family ain’t exactly hurting for money. He attended The Lawrenceville School, a prep school where they estimate the cost of attendance at $48,000 per year.

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      • PharmDawg

        Who would be interested in his likeness anyway? He’s a human Clydesdale on the offensive line.

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        • Isn’t that his call to make and not yours?

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          • PharmDawg

            It’s neither my call nor his. It’s the NCAA’s call. He signed the scholarship, he knew what the conditions would be.

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        • gastr1

          Point of all of this just went right on by you, didn’t it?

          The people who say “no one is forcing them”–well, that’s true literally, but in reality they don’t have very much choice if they want to play professionally. And then there’s just plain what’s fair….and watching the NCAA rake in billions off of your name and your game, while cutting you out if the pie, would pretty much make anyone think they were nit really getting treated humanely.

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          • PharmDawg

            I know one way a college football player could get paid and have a scholarship at the same time: go to one of the service academies. Not only do you not have to pay for room and board, you get paid about $900 a month.

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            • ChiliDawg

              Because offering up one’s life to sacrifice it for big oil and the american war industrial complex is the only acceptable scenario under which we would consider giving kids a fair deal.

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              • ChiliDawg

                By the way, I was a Naval officer, don’t get me wrong – it’s an honorable calling. But too many people like you treat the military like something akin to compulsory service for anyone in order for you to treat them like a human being. We don’t fight for an America in which you should have to risk your life at war in order to get equal treatment.

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                • PharmDawg

                  You can serve in plenty of non-combat billets where you don’t have to risk your life.

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                  • ChiliDawg

                    Just because you are in a “non-combat billet” doesn’t mean you aren’t risking your life. 17 Sailors were killed when the Cole was attacked in 2004. Two of them were cooks.

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                  • MDDawg

                    You don’t just get to choose which billet you get. You take the ASVAB (if they still call it that) and depending on your test scores the recruiter will tell you which positions you qualify for. And he will try to steer you towards one of those positions based on his quota. This might be harsh, but I’m guessing that a lot of college football players wouldn’t score high enough to have many choices. In my experience, you go where the military needs you. Your wants matter little if at all.

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              • Mark

                Oh, sure, I remember when I was commissioned in the Air Force, the part of the commissioning oath where I did “…solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend big oil and the american war industrial complex against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”

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                • ChiliDawg

                  I was addressing the outsider attitude toward service in exchange for rights, not the men and women doing the fighting and the dying, as I clearly remarked above.

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                • ChiliDawg

                  And just let me expound on that a little more because I really, really, do not want anyone twisting what I’m saying here. I’m proud of my service and I’m proud of everyone who answers that call to serve. But what makes our military special is that it’s a volunteer force. The people who are there want to be there.

                  And I’ll tell you what really sets me off about the comment I was responding to, it’s the attitude that led to memes like this getting circulated

                  I saw that getting passed around a few weeks ago and it really, really made my blood boil. The idea that young people should go off to war and end up in a casket just to get the chance to get an education should enrage you if you really value our military. So pardon me if I get a little salty when people suggest that young people seeking to better their standing in the world go join the military. Because those same people are the ones who support sending them off to die in the desert half a world away defending somebody else’s interests.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • Sides

                    Maybe you shouldn’t get worked up about a stupid social media meme? Your faux outrage on everything is ridiculous.

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    • TomReagan

      Maybe I shouldn’t, but I assume that any player at a top tier program like Michigan was on scholarship at whatever private school he attended.

      Not everyone pays tuition.

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  2. MDDawg

    Okay, I’ll bite. I’m generally on the side of the student athletes in these arguments, but why is he paying rent anyway? Does the athletic scholarship not include a dorm room and meal plan?

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    • If a player chooses to live off-campus, school pays him a stipend for rent.

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      • AJ

        So he made a choice to live off campus and now bitching about it because he chose to accept a scholarship to play football at michigan. Ah, now I get it.

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        • Jeff Sanchez

          Kid’s got it tough, no doubt

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        • Biggen

          Pretty much this. He made the choice to live outside the means of his scholly.

          I hate social media…

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          • Gaskilldawg

            The few hundred dollars in taxes the stipend generates isn’t the real point. It is the fact that all that money P5 schools make is tax free..

            As usual, the focus is on being critical o& th e kid instead of the suits.

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        • ChiliDawg

          You guys have a remarkable ability to completely miss the point. It’s almost like you don’t want to get it.

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          • PharmDawg

            Maybe we don’t really care. It’s point-less.

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          • MDDawg

            FWIW, I agree that he should be allowed to make money off of his name/image/likeness. Every other student can, so why can’t he? That part of “amateurism” is BS.

            I’m curious as to what kind of taxes he’s paying on the stipend? Does it count as income for tax purposes? If so, I’d think he has a pretty good argument that players are already employees.

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  3. ApalachDawg

    To quote Mr Ewing “We make a lot of money but we spend a lot of money too”

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  4. PharmDawg

    Assigned Reading For Mr. Newsome: Don Quixote, by Miguel Cervantes.

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  5. ChiliDawg

    Enter the old white men to take the side of the multi-billion dollar corporation that consistently fucks everyone.

    Liked by 1 person

    • PharmDawg

      To paraphrase Red Smith, rooting for the NCAA is like rooting for U.S. Steel.

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      • ChiliDawg

        Never heard of Red Smith, but he sounds like a moron.

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        • PharmDawg

          Context is everything, my low-information friend. Red Smith once said in the 1950s, “Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for U.S. Steel.” He said that because the Yankees were in the World Series in 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, and 1958.

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        • Gaskilldawg

          Red Smith was a renowned sportswriter and editor with the New York Times for about 40 years. Either retired or died I the late 1960s.

          He was not a moron but not all of the thousands of things he wrote were brilliant.

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    • Uglydawg

      I’m enjoying the banter, but how do you know who’s white and who’s black on here?
      Carry on.

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      • Bamadawg

        Anyone who disagrees with ChiliDawg is not only white, but a white male. He goes in that direction everytime he starts losing an argument. If you look at most of his past posts, he will end up there.

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        • ChiliDawg

          Y’all let me know the first time I get it wrong.

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          • Bamadawg

            You won’t believe it, but here you go; I’m a 52 (soon to be 53) black male, married 32 to years to the same “white” woman, and served 22 years in the U.S. Army. We have two sons (31 & 29) and have lived in Alabama since 2000. SOOOOO, during a discussion we had about a month ago you insinuated that I was a white male. YOU GOT IT WRONG. Its people like you that cause people like me (and my sons) to constantly have to clean up the messes that you leave behind. NOT EVERY GOD DAMN DISCUSSION IS ABOUT RACE. So do those of us that just want to enjoy the sport we love a favor, and shut the F up.

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            • CB

              Maybe sometimes white guys get sick of watching other white guys support an organization that takes advantage of young black kids. Gives us all a bad name.

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              • Bamadawg

                So only young black men play college sports? We must be watching two different things.

                As for the selfie, 2 things:

                No way am I putting my image on here to prove a point to an individual that uses racism to get by.
                Even if I did, y’all would only claim that it wasn’t me.

                I will finish my repeating what I have said numerous times during these stupid arguments, “No one is making these young men play football or sign a scholarship.”

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                • CB

                  The majority of athletes at major universities play

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                • CB

                  The majority of athletes at major universities playing high revenue sports (football and basketball) are not only black, but they come from below average socioeconomic backgrounds. For every Baker Mayfield there are probably 50 young black men driving viewership. Something is wrong with the system, but I’m not telling you anything new. At this point you either see the obvious or you’ve decided to ignore it.

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                • CB

                  Also, to correlate with your statement that nobody is making this kids sign scholarships. I would counter that nobody is making you go to your job everyday. You could always work at McDonald’s.

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            • ChiliDawg

              First off, I’ve never called YOU white, if you took my general statement about some generic old white people to mean you personally, then that’s on you. Second, none of the rest of your post makes any goddamn sense, so I’m just gonna leave it at that.

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        • CB

          Post selfies. I bet he’s right.

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          • waltondawg

            I’m gonna guess majority of Senator’s followers or subscribers are predominantly white males so no big shocker there. Doesn’t make the dude right or wrong. He knows hes stirring the pot.

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            • CB

              Painting with a broad brush isn’t always the best MO, but when you start to hear certain cliche played out rhetoric it’s not that hard to pick out an old white dude from the south. Certain prejudices die hard I guess, and they are also easy to sniff out if you know what to look for.

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      • When someone brings up race right out of the gate, I usually just dismiss the rest of their argument.

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      • ChiliDawg

        Oh I don’t, but I can spot an old white guy comment easier than spotting a palm tree in a pumpkin patch.

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  6. I agree the payers should be paid. We just differ on how much and how. You want free market principles to take over. I have argued each player should be paid $1,000.00 a month. Will say that I had not calculated taxes into this, so move it to $1,500.00 a month.

    As things evolve with how scholarships will be handled, transfers, etc. – you could even pay based on the student athletes commitment. In other words, if you sign the kid to one year, he get’s a thousand a month in the first, two thousand in the second, three thousand in a third, four thousand in the forth. If the kid leaves the program on his own, then the payments stop the day he signs the papers. Oh, and you have Academic ties in. If you are in your second year, but you are still considered an Academic Freshmen, then you continue to get ‘paid’ as a Freshmen. In other words, you can be penalized for not keeping pace in the classroom.

    If you want to cut the player, then you owe that player the balance left on the scholarship, and he can finish out at that school and get their degree, if they elect not to transfer.

    If the kid signs with another school, then the contract stays in place until he is ‘active’. Also, by offering a kid for two years, the kid knows where he actually stands within a program, where as another school may see him differently and offer him four. This forces everyone to get ‘better’ in how they evaluate and who they are signing. Now the richer schools will not care and will offer a four year scholarship to every player and that’s fine. At the end of the day, it protects the kid.

    This concept does not completely fix the problem. But I believe it will slow the number of athletes ‘not quite ready’ from leaving too early and it should improve the number of kids who leave with degrees.

    And on a slightly different note. If a coach is fired, the player does NOT have to sit out a year and can sign with anyone. If the coach leaves for another job, the player can also leave, but cannot follow that coach to the coaches new school. (This prevents a Coach from selling ‘instant success’ by bringing half or more of his starters with him).

    Anyway, just some things to chew on…

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  7. JoshG

    “…I have no problem paying taxes…”. This poor kid hasn’t realized taxation is theft yet.

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    • Gaskilldawg

      Damn right. We should all be responsible and build our own roads in from of our houses.

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    • Mad Mike

      Careful my man, saying stuff like that’ll get you branded a Nazi these days.

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    • Derek

      There’s still time for him to huff gas while reading Fountainhead.

      Taxation as theft is the dumbest “thought” imaginable. How much would you own if it hadn’t been for the sacrifice of thousands of people you’ve never met? Some dead soldier who died in Omaha Beach left a wife. Her great-grandchild was side swiped by a drunk driver severing her spine. She needs the taxpayers to help out a bit. The deceased US soldier would like the great granddaughter he’s never known to have a decent life, her injuries notwithstanding. Your response: don’t steal from me!

      Fuck you and every one like you. You have not one fucking clue that you are not alone in this. We’re a country. We take care of each other. That costs money. We can argue about priorities and waste and excess, but don’t tell me that it’s fucking theft.

      If it weren’t for your fellow countrymen your head would have been cut off and played a starring role in a YouTube video. You sleep under the protection of people with grandparents and nieces and sons and aunts who’ve earned the right to expect their own to have their basic needs met.

      Write the fucking ck and say thank you. If it’s bigger than you’d like, vote. If that doesn’t do it be more active. But don’t say it’s theft because that makes you a dumb ungrateful asshole.

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      • PharmDawg

        “Son we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it you? You Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility that you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have the luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Santiago’s death while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence while grotesque, and incomprehensible, to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that well, you need me on that wall! We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something, you use them as a punchline. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself, to a man who rises and sleeps, under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and than questions the manner in which I provide them! I’d rather you just said ‘thank you’, and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn, what you think you are entitled to!”

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        • Derek

          And the walls cost money. And the existence of the walls allow for the creation of great wealth. Without the walls there would be nothing. Within those walls are things, including people, who have needs that also cost money. And also within those walls are utter morons who ignore the wall’s existence and any duty owed to its maintenance.

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      • Mad Mike

        ^See. Yes I know you didn’t call him a Nazi Derek, but you did totally over react to someone’s opinion you don’t agree with.

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        • Derek

          Is there a proportionality guide I should be aware of? To me that was was defcon 1 stupid and the reply was in kind.

          FWIW I think you’re overreacting to my reaction. It’s just my mere humble opinion after all.

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      • There are different kinds of taxes. I believe when most people say that taxation is theft, they are referencing “income” taxes. Consumption taxes are a thing dating way back to the beginning of our little country and I don’t think most people have problems with a consumption tax.

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        • Derek

          I fail to see why the mechanism that converts your money to the government’s money changes it to theft. Seems a distinction without a difference in terms of whether or not you can fairly call taxation “theft.”

          Policy differences about taxes are a seperate matter. You can debate how much and how it’s collected all day long. What I can’t stand is the attitude that “it’s my money so fuck you.” That’s just a lie that only makes sense if you’re a small minded Ayn Randian psuedo-intellectual.

          My household will pay over 6 figures in taxes this year (much less next year apparently) and I know that my country has allowed us the opportunity to earn enough to have that kind of tax exposure. If I was born in Uganda I’m guessing the risk of “theft” would be much much lower as would my opportunities for any economic successes.

          We live in a republican democracy. We are not victims. We are citizens. The whole concept that we are pitted against the government or our fellow citizens is factually wrong and corrosive to our institutions. WE te people are our government. For better or worse we get exactly what we as a group have asked for and some of it costs a lot of money.

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          • Mad Mike

            I think the basis of that argument is that the threat of force behind those taxes makes it theft.

            Liked by 1 person

            • You mean that you face a “penalty” for non-payment right? There is no “threat of force.” That’s a Frank Luntz focus group tested bullshit speak like the “Patriot Act” and “Freedom Fries.” Stupid phrasing for stupid people.

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              • Mad Mike

                I, personally, didn’t MEAN anything. I’m not an anarcho-capitalist I just know a few. What I wrote was just repeating something I have heard, and read, a few times.

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                • Derek

                  A lot of people say a lot of dumb things. When you’re letting others know about those dumb things it may be helpful to point out that you don’t agree, you’re just repeating.

                  In other words I wouldn’t say: “I think the argument is that the Germans just ran out of food, not that they were intent on executing the Jews.”

                  I would say stupid, idiotic anti-Semitic people who want to defend Hitler say…. Big difference.

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                  • Mad Mike

                    You act like you’re the smartest guy in the room, so I guess I just figured you of all people would understand that it wasn’t my opinion when I said, “the basis for that argument” instead of, “I believe it’s because…”

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                    • Derek

                      Depends on the room I suppose. Also depends on what you mean by smart. If it’s “good at math”, I’m a total idiot. If it’s “understands American politics”, I think I can hold my own with pretty much anyone.

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          • waltondawg

            Just to be clear, we live in a Republic as opposed to a true democracy and definitely not a republican democracy (not sure what that even is).

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          • Well, hey, if you don’t feel like you’re paying enough taxes, just write another check in the amount that makes you feel better. I’m sure they’ll accept it. Hell, why not just give all your money to the government – they’ll take care of you, right?

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            • You can’t fix stupid and you’re here to prove it.

              I’m not arguing for anything about taxes save that they aren’t “theft.” You can stupidly change the argument into any moronic right wing radio, smart ass Hannitzed comment you want you neo-fascist twitfuck. Doesn’t change the point that the government we voted for costs money to run. We can debate how much it should cost and who should pay for it another time. That was NOT what started this discussion. Taxes characterized as a criminal act did. Try to stick to the point moron.

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              • Wow, I’m glad I don’t live each minute of my life with such hate and vitriol as you apparently do. I bet you’re a real hoot at family reunions – if you’re invited, that is.

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        • Gaskilldawg

          I disagree that “most people” don’t have problem with consumption taxes. There are millions of people whose entire income is spent on “consumption taxes” on necessary spending who would disagree.

          I do not care to start a debate about the merits of consumption taxes versus income taxes. I just want to point out there is not a near unanimity of opinion one way or the other.

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  8. NCDawgMan

    I always seem to reach for negatives. Yes the NCAA is a billion dollar corporation with 501K status but let us remember since 1988 our institutions of higher learning has give their students such a deal of cost of attending and not actually teaching has risen in 2018 by 213%. Another quaint fun fact is that graduation in major; Students have a 70% rate of NOT acquiring a job in their field of study.
    I don’t know but if the NCCA or your State College was on the open market on Wall Street I’d invest all I could muster. Meaning what other corporations bring in that rate of increase and are not held accountable.
    How bout saying in reverse discrimination that Universities lose the 501K status if their grads aren’t place in their chosen major.
    You could make this a parable to college teams being a training league for the NFL, NBA and not so much but still MLB. If your state university has a kid go pro does not get drafted bring him back till he finishes his major if he does not find a job within said major the school loses 501 status.
    Very seldom do I pull for any team above the Mason/Dixon like but the young man has a point.
    * If you feel the need check my stats at U.S. News and World Report.

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  9. Normaltown Mike

    “that Universities lose the 501K status if their grads aren’t place in their chosen major”

    I know it’s just a theoretical argument, but this concept is silly. Major in what you want to learn. If I could go back, I’d definitely major in History not to be a historian but b/c it’s interesting. Yes, this doesn’t work for engineers, accountants and a few other careers. But anybody working in sales or random corp. ladder world should major in whatever as it has little correlation to what you do day to day.

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  10. waltondawg

    Welcome to the real world. Screw amateurism and throw them to the wolves. Kind of sick of the converstion. Let’s pay em all on their likeness or whatever and let them pay taxes. After all these are adults and they can handle it and know better than anyone else. Right? Better go ahead and withhold state and federal and make sure Social Security gets theirs too. Nothing like on the job training. Paying them opens all kinds of things. Most “kids” (dare I say amateurs) arent prepared to deal with the real world but hey they all are going pro in something and make millions. If you are gonna bitch and complain about not getting paid and education isnt worth what all they give up don’t go and bitch and complain about getting treated the same as everyone else even if it isnt 100%. By the way, that multi-billion dollar corporation would still be multi billion with or without amateurs. All in the name of education.

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  11. Damn…getting a bit chippy in here. NCAA posts do it every time!

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  12. Got Cowdog

    I was in the bathroom with yesterday’s “How about a little…..” post. What did I miss?

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  13. Doug

    I’ve heard people utter the phrase as “useless as tits on a boar,” “tits on a board,” and “tits on a bullfrog.” Regardless of how you say it, any one of them pretty much sums up the NCAA.

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    • Russ

      It’s “tits on a boar hog”, a boar being male. I don’t really know what a “boar hog” is, though. Seems contradictory, boar being male and hog being female. But whatever. 😉

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      • Got Cowdog

        Where I come from Its Boar (Masculine) Sow (Feminine), hog or pig applies to both.
        My favorite breast euphemism? I did my best friend a solid once, a big one. His response?
        “I love you. If you had tits on your back I’d marry you.”

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      • Hogbody Spradlin

        And they’re both bacon.

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  14. South FL Dawg

    Duuuuude! Take the opportunity to rip into the tax exemption for college sports.

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  15. Jack Klompus

    I’m no tax attorney or accountant, but I’m not sure the stipend pays enough for athletes to owe federal or state taxes (SS and Medicare, yes). They may actually get a rebate and get some extra cash due to the earned income tax credit. However, if he has other earned income, then he may have to pay taxes.

    That said, I’m with you senator- I don’t understand why there is a desire to stick it to these kids and make them learn, “the hard way.”

    I believe Judge Smails’ wife was offered the chance to make $14 the hard way, but she turned it down too.

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    • doofusdawg

      They would still pay ss taxes and probably the full 15%. But that’s just the government putting their money in a trust for them for later use… which is what some posters on here suggested in the first place.

      Surprised this is the first mention of taxing the stipend. I wonder if they withheld or issued a 1099.

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    • Hogbody Spradlin

      “Hey, last time I saw a mouth like that it had a hook in it.”

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  16. Hogbody Spradlin

    The proposition that taxes are theft has been well debated by reasonable people, and mostly rejected. There is legal compulsion in tax assessment and collection, up to and including jail. But that’s not theft. The theory is that we the people vote to tax ourselves through our elected representatives. How’s that working out?

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    • Got Cowdog

      Not too good. Especially since it’s BOHICA time again. April 15th you know. What I want (and it ties to your post above) to know is this: As my income increases, the percentage I pay in tax increases. So those in the higher bracket pay a disproportionate amount of tax in both percentage and value than those in lower brackets. I don’t see why we can’t assign the value of one’s vote based on one’s income bracket.

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      • Derek

        If you assigned voting power on the percentage of income paid in taxes, you’d disenfranchise a lot of rich people. Not that they give a rat’s ass about their vote. They know they get a lot more bang for their buck buying politicians. Why vote when you have the Majority Leader of the senate and the speaker of the house in your pocket?

        The idea of a progressive tax rate (largely a fiction due to tax breaks created via influence peddling) is that in theory those who benefit the most, should pay the most.

        If you have a billion dollars you have presumably benefitted from the existing system and you have a lot to lose should it collapse. Moreover, unless you’re an idiot you recognize that you’re indebted to the place that has allowed you that degree of wealth, freedom and security.

        If you’re living in a gutter, my guess is that you don’t feel too indebted nor do you have much to lose if the government collapses under the weight of its debt.

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        • Got Cowdog

          Define rich. How would higher value (a points system maybe?) vote disenfranchise me? 200k in taxes buys more MRE’s, funds more programs, fixes more highways, etc. than 25k. At 200k, I am of higher fiscal value to the taxing body. Seems pretty simple to me. My vote should count more.

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          • Derek

            Those “one man one vote” guys were morons. I liked feudal lordships better.

            I see you changed percentage of income to actual dollars. You just keep moving that target. I guess if Jeff Bezos votes for you suck his cock you’d call that democracy, huh?

            The problem with idiots such as yourself is that they think they’re better than everyone below them and that those who make what they make up to infinity are “bros” who will just automatically bite the same.

            It took fucking centuries to sort out how shortsighted your type of stupidity is. It’s kinda why there’s a USA in the first place dick.

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        • Hogbody Spradlin

          Those who benefit the most should pay the most? Something “allows me the degree of wealth”,etc.? Ay, ay, nah fugghedaboutit.

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          • Derek

            Reality check. If you had been born in Uganda, Venezuala, Montenegro, Pakistan or Mongolia, two things would be true.

            1) you’d still be stupid.

            2) you’d be a lot poorer.

            Sentient beings understand that the gap between what your living conditions would be in those places vs. what you’re actually experiencing is the value you’re getting from being an American. I know you don’t get it.

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            • Got Cowdog

              I knew it! I knew you’d bite!

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            • Hogbody Spradlin

              Ahh yes, our Schtick Dreck. The knowledge and wisdom of Spongebob Squarepants and the warmth of Yosemite Sam. A man of such import that he publishes his screeds on a football blog.

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              • Got Cowdog

                Thanks for the setup, Hog. You really should stop by sometime, we can sip bourbon an smoke cigars on the veranda while we watch the help tend the lawn.

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                • Nothing makes bourbon and cigars taste better than watching brown people do menial work for a low wage.

                  You ever eat apple pie while watching a woman scrub a toilet? Its magical.

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  17. Paul

    Mr. Newsome can drop out of NCAA football and monetize his brand, anytime he wants. Just can’t do it if he agreed/accepted to take a scholarship for playing football.

    Good luck though with selling yourself as a football player though if you’re not playing NCAA football on national TV.

    No one forced Mr. Newsome to take the path he chose.

    By the way, maybe the IRS should consider a value added tax on Mr. Newsome for all of the exposure he gets for free, playing football on national television.

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  18. UGA '97

    This ticks me off. Our taxes, tax payer dollars pay stipends, then get taxed? Tell him to see Harbaugh…

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