Your 5.15.19 Playpen

As some wag on Twitter put it yesterday, the US is going to invade Iran and then Trump will run in 2020 claiming he was opposed to doing that.

For the record, this is a very bad idea for the same reason invading Iraq was.

And with that, today’s Playpen is yours in the comments.

159 Comments

Filed under GTP Stuff

159 responses to “Your 5.15.19 Playpen

  1. Biggen

    The problem is we don’t know how to wage war any longer. We pussy-foot around with smart bombs and ROE.

    Back in antiquity, they knew how to wage war. Rome would wash over an empire conquering and enslaving everything in its path. They had no time for POWs. There were sent to the mines, gladiatorial games or crucified. They would then garrison the area, setup a prefect, and tax the hell out of them. Worked for 1000 years.

    Times were simpler then.

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    • Jim

      It wasn’t as long ago as Ancient Rome. Go watch some press conferences that Powell and Schwarzkopf put on during Desert Storm. Those guys know how to wage war

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      • UGADrake

        Exactly. Don’t forget, Schwarzkopf wanted to drive all the way to Baghdad and settle things then, but GHWB called him down and brought him to the principal’s office. Reminds me of another great general that wanted to go ahead and fight the Russians at the end of WW2 while we were already in Germany. He got bitch slapped too.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Joe Schmoe

          Jesus christ. The disgusting militarism on display here on this entire thread is truly disturbing. Ask the Germans or Napoleon how easy it is to invade Russia. And how well did things work out once we DID take out Saddam in Iraq? Massive waste of money not to mention the hundreds of thousands of civilians who were killed in the process.

          The lack of human empathy for people on the ground displayed in your comments represents a great deal of what is wrong with our country.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Napoleon BonerFart

            Come on Joe. They’re brown people. That doesn’t count. #Murica

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          • UGADrake

            Ok. You’re right. Although nothing I said was historically incorrect. We should just wait and let things resolve themselves. And before you think I’m suggesting we invade Iran, I’m not. What’s wrong with the country is that people like you want other people out on the walls at night, fighting evil people who want to kill us, rape your wife, kill your kids. But how dare someone actually advocate for action. You probably hate law enforcement, but you want them arresting people to keep your family safe. You hate money spent on supporting the military, but you have no problem letting me send my children off to die to protect your children. Oh..and how dare you question my lack of care for people on the ground. Stalin, by many reports, killed 20 million of his own people. But you’re right, it worked out good that no one took him out sooner. I’m pretty sure our GIs in WW2 saw what the Russians were doing to the German women and children and hated them for it.

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            • Napoleon BonerFart

              Very few people disagree with the notion of having armed forces for the purposes of defense. But how does shooting people thousands of miles away keep me and my family safe? And while the money spent on endless wars is wasteful, so is sending Americans away to be injured, killed, or in the best case, experience mental and emotional trauma from being at risk and seeing friends hurt or killed. Why not keep American children from dying at the same time as keeping Iraqi, Afghani, and Syrian children from dying? Wouldn’t that be the best of all worlds?

              And sure, Stalin killed millions. So did Mao. And we didn’t go after them. So you know it’s not about protecting people.

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              • UGadrake

                You’re right. But I’m
                Pretty sure the Jews that were liberated in the concentration camps would disagree and say it was EXACTLY about liberating people. As well as all of Western Europe.

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  That was great. But how many Jews were saved? 6 million were killed. There were only about 9 million before the war and many of them fled. And 65 million people died in the war. And Eastern Europe ended up under Soviet rule for decades.

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                • Ugadrake

                  So because we got involved and had to fight Germans to liberate the camps. It was a waste of time because millions died before we ever got there? So we should have just waited for that bastard to kill all the Jews. Gypsies and homesexuals? And said. Oh well. We came late so it wasn’t worth it?

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  I’m saying 65 million people died in a war fought to save up to 3 million people. And tens of millions more spent their lives under Soviet rule. Now you may count that as a win, but it’s not so clear to me.

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            • Joe Schmoe

              You are literally espousing American exceptionalism – that essentially America getting involved is always positive – when history proves that to be totally ridiculous.

              The other idea that you subtly put forward is that the only type of action is military action. Economic and politic isolation are effective tools in engaging on the international stage, but those probably aren’t flashy or macho enough for you.

              Lastly, you put forward the bullshit strawman that since I advocate for any sort of military restraint, I must hate the military and all law enforcement. This such a stupid right-wing trope that I really shouldn’t bother responding to it. But what I really think is that it’s ridiculous to have the children of everyday people fighting and dying in wars that have nothing to do with our security as a country and everything to do with enriching military and oil titans. Those of us who support restraint support and value the military MORE than those who are ready to through them into harms way at the drop of the hat just to prove they “have a bigger button.”

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        • Joe Schmoe

          The militarism on display in this post and this entire thread is disgusting. All war is deplorable. How many millions of people do you think would have died if we had invaded Russia at the end of WW2? The cold war that ensued instead, while not ideal, avoided the mass casualties that would have occurred with an invasion.

          The macho chest thumbing about knowing how to “wage war” is absurd and ridiculous and is what leads us to follow numb-skull leaders like Bush and Trump into asinine conflicts that line the pockets of the industrialists at the cost of the lives of hundreds of thousands of every day people.

          This is not a video game.

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          • Ugadrake

            Let me know how you felt when 9/11 happened. I’m old enough to remember. So while you were blaming American imperialism and oil hungry politicians. I understood it as evil exists in this world. Had always existed in this world. And will prevail in this world unless good men and women do something. Your bullshit argument is pathetic.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Got Cowdog

              Late to the party. Working off a phone so forgive the dialect.
              War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.
              John Stuart Mill, Principles
              Can’t believe no one linked this yet
              Did we provoke Japan? It could be argued. Germany was inevitable after.
              We didn’t and don’t go to war for the noble reasons. If that was true any country associated with 9/11 would be the 2001 version of South Korea.
              We can war monger on a football blog all u want, when you are faced with sending a son or daughter into harms way? You better be goddamned sure it’s worth it. So what’s the price?

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          • Um so Obama was in office 8 years (longest war serving president) he did nothing to pull out right (minor pull out of Iraq which led to ISIS to grow)? Also, Trump has always wanted to draw down forces in conflict. He got heat from people on the right and left about pulling back in Syria.

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        • It was Patton and I loved what he said to Ike “Let me attack them and in two weeks I will make it look like they started it!” LOL.

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    • Hogbody Spradlin

      Ahh, the good old days.

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    • Hogbody Spradlin

      Biggen, bear in mind that the Romans didn’t have to worry about a nut job with a nuke.

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      • dawgtired

        You have to wonder if one day one of these ‘nut jobs’ will actually push a button. I wonder how the rest of the powers will respond to something like that?

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    • Paul

      WWII was the last time we fought to win. You don’t win a war simply by defeating an army. You have to defeat the entire infrastructure that supports it. There’s a reason why Germany was bombing London and we were bombing Berlin. It wasn’t because military men and material were located there. That’s where the heart of both countries lay. You have to defeat a people not simply their fighters.

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      • Jim

        Am i the only one old enough around here to remember way back in ‘91? I seem to recall the press asking Colin Powell if he was concerned about excessive Iraqi casualties. His response was something along the lines of “we don’t go to war to barely win. We go to war to annihalate the enemy.”

        I’d say we did a pretty good job of defeating the entire infrastructure supporting the Iraqi forces that occupied Kuwait. Highway of Death ring a bell for anyone?

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        • Cojones

          Highway of death – yes – with photos distributed in a bound annual-like publication to military hierarchy at Fort Stewart at their return ceremony (the tank corps that chased the Iraqi Republican Army tanks were trained by Schwarzkopf at Fort Stewart). Photos seen in sparse media publications don’t begin to show the log-jammed traffic destruction, bodies remaining in open vehicles, tops of tanks blown off – all photographed closeup by the Army to give the idea of our destructive power in conventional land warfare. I saw the copy my career Army brother was given and it’s testimonial as to how animalistic conventional warfare remains.

          Toying with a shooting war every time a plot is uncovered is going to be a forever sabre-rattling activity by Trump as a way to deflect our attention from his imminent ouster from the Presidency – that and smokescreen investigation of investigators.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Hogbody Spradlin

            Oh yeah, Trump’s gonna be thrown out by sundown if not sooner!

            Liked by 1 person

            • Cojones

              Was going to say “Quicker than Trump can lie”, but considered that “imminent” was over the top enough. Your snark is well taken since it will take a crowbar similar to a Trump base turnaround to get that phony tick out of office anytime soon.

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          • Paul

            Cojones, I agree. War is hell. War should never be pursued unless there is simply no other choice. There is a reason why every war veteran, including my father, comes home determined that no one should ever have experience the horrors of war. But if you find yourself in a war you have to be committed to winning. That means doing some really terrible things. Soul crushing things. Which is why you don’t really want to go there to begin with. Making those decisions in real time is extraordinarily difficult. History shows we did the right thing in Japan and that we were also correct not to invade Russia. We also made some very bad decisions: imprisoning Asians and refusing Jewish immigrants come to mind. I believe Schwarzkopf was correct that we stood down too soon in Iraq. We are still paying the price today.

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            • Cojones

              Schwarzkopf brought back millions of $ war trophies in the form of Russian tanks, tank extractors and even heavier equipment using the bellies of C5A planes landing at Hunter AFB to set an Iraq trophy war museum at Fort Stewart that takes a while to drive in review. It’s an unbelievable sight. I didn’t see a scratch on any of them since they had been wholesale surrendered. My brother mentioned back then that they had enough Russian tanks to fly back into a desert setting and proceed as a phantom Russian tank corps piloted by Americans to mix and mingle into any other dirty little rearming scheme Russia might have in the near future back then. That would have indeed been clever.

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    • Napoleon BonerFart

      It worked … until it didn’t. The Roman empire fell precisely because of the huge costs associated with endless war and the maintenance of an empire.

      Also, blowback is a thing. It’s not possible to kill every Arab in the Middle East. So if we only kill 10% of them, we leave brothers, sons, and friends who are now radicalized against the country that killed their loved ones. That’s how we created ISIS. The solution to blowback is never more blowback.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Um no. The Muslims have been attacking the west since the 1800’s. Check out the Marine hymn. from the halls of montezuma to the shores of tripoli. They already hate us prior invading Iraq. Remember 9.11 happened before Iraq, USS Cole, first world trade tower bombings, PAM Flight over scottland or England forget and many more.

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        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Osama bin Laden’s stated beef with the USA was over Saudi military bases left over from Iraq War I. The USA lied to the Saudis and claimed that after the war, the bases would be closed. They never were.

          And some folks are also still ticked about the CIA replacing the elected leader of Iran with the Shah in 1954. And that little experiment eventually led to the Ayatollahs taking over.

          So again, blowback is real.

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  2. TXBaller

    If Iran touches Israel or US interests in the region, they will get their ass kicked. BTW, where is tweeker Mikey? He was rolling for a couple of weeks….then petered out.

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  3. Paul

    I just want him to admit that IMPORTERS pay tariffs, not exporters. China has never paid one penny in tariffs. Never will. “China tariffs” are paid by American businesses and American consumers. I didn’t even know someone was claiming we’re about to invade Iran. Why would we bother?

    Liked by 1 person

    • My guesses:
      1) Boredom.
      2) With an economic downturn on the horizon due to ignorant economic policies leading to trade wars, it is a boost to the economy to engage in war. You generate higher enlistments, send the servicemen and women overseas, pay them with debt, and you generate upward wage pressure back home because the available labor force has artificially shrunk. As people earn more, they spend more, continuing the illusion that the economy is not entirely based on a lie. It is one reason we are still engaged in so many conflicts now, even if the company line is “something something terrorism something something national security interests.” If all of the troops were brought home tomorrow, it would send the economy into another depression. The market would be flooded with unemployed people causing wages to plummet and spending to go right along with it. It would actually be better economically speaking if they went over there and didn’t return. That is the dirty little secret that nobody says out loud while we wave our flags and honor our veterans. (For the record, I am against international involvement, and do not wish for any of our military men and women to die in the line of duty. I also want all of our troops to be brought home, although not all at once.)
      3) Nothing to do during the CFB offseason.

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      • LOL what economic issues. Right now there are more jobs then people. Record low unemployment rate for all racial groups. The tariffs are needed. for over 30 years there has been a huge trade deficient with China.They have been applying tariffs for a long time. We are just wanting to make it even. Whats wrong with that?

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        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Tariffs cause higher prices. If China imposes higher prices on its consumers via tariffs, why must the USA do the same?

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    • 3rdandGrantham

      I’ll simply say that, as a D.C. area resident who is in cybersecurity, our beef with China over trade imbalances is a smokescreen for the real issue at-hand. And that is China’s continued cyber attacks on the U.S. and stealing intellectual property that is estimated to be approx. 40m daily in theft.

      Make no mistake – this is a cybersecurity war being waged, not a trade one.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Derek

        Are there no other tools available to us that don’t involve punishing farmers and consumers?

        Why isn’t it the responsibility of the owners of that intellectual property to protect their own economic interests? Why is intellectual property theft a public interest?

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        • 3rdandGrantham

          Because they are not just attacking the commercial space, they also are attacking Federal, DOD, state and local gov, higher ed, public schools, hospitals, etc. They’ve even attempted to cripple our satellites in outer space which are used for vital communication and defense. And remember, China actively sponsors these attacks on the U.S. and is the #1 threat vector in the world (Russia is a distant 4th, FWIW).

          Liked by 1 person

          • Derek

            We usually use diplomatic and economic sanctions for these types of things and we say why we’re doing them.

            Why call it a “trade war” and treat it as such when it’s really something else?

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            • 3rdandGrantham

              Not at liberty to get into all the ‘why’s,’ though I can say this approach started until the Obama admin and fortunately Trump hasn’t screwed it up (in fact his admin has improved upon this approach).

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          • 3rdandGrantham

            One last quip regarding cybersecurity and how absurd our obsession with Russia is (especially regarding the U.S. media). Russia’s GDP is far less than, say, France, and is roughly on par with Spain at 1.5b annually. China, meanwhile, has a 13b GDP. So in terms of economic power Russia is a peon compared to the global giants. And regarding cybersecurity, in terms of threat vectors and overall capabilities, Russia is pretty much equal to Brazil (in fact Brazil probably will overtake Russia for the 4th spot in ’19).

            Yet we continue to be utterly consumed with Russia anyway while ignoring China, which makes zero sense to me. Yes, Putin is a saber rattler, but China is our main threat, not Russia.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Gurkha Dawg

              Good stuff 3rd. Thanks. I hope it can be avoided, but we might have a shooting war with China in the next 10-20 years.

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              • 3rdandGrantham

                Sure, and cyber is my absolute passion, as you may be able to tell. Regarding wars, we are at full out war with one another from a cyber perspective as we speak, and we are hitting them back HARD right now.

                China would rather wage a cybe war than an actual one, so I don’t think a war with bullets, so to speak, will happen. However if things got really bad I could see them attempting to destroy us via electronic bomb warfare or via various cyber activities.

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                • Gurkha Dawg

                  My son is in the Cyber school at Augusta University. He is a sophomore and is just finishing his core courses. Any expert advice about areas to emphasize or possible internships etc in the future? I find the whole thing fascinating but am not much help as I have a hard time getting my damn printer to work.

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                • 3rdandGrantham

                  Sure. He has myriad routes to choose from – from engineer, sales/account management, working in IT/security at an actual organization or for a security integrator or vendor (think firms like Symantec, Palo Alto Networks, Optiv, WWT, etc. Most likely, he will need move to/near a big city in order to expose himself to the most/best opportunities, but certainly he probably can stay local as well; though the pay and advancement, while solid, won’t be nearly as promising. Atlanta is a hot spot, as are other top locations like D.C. etc.

                  For example, here in the D.C. area, most security engineers I know make 150K minimum, with more senior/experienced roles easily paying 200K or more. CISO’s at medium/large organizations make 500K+, and a I know quite a few security VP types who pull in 300K+. A friend of mine personally earned over 1m last year on the sales/pre-sales side. Not bad.

                  Overall, concentrating on a specific area of security would help, but most of all finding an internship and building experience is his bet bet, all while continuing to advance his skills. I will say that cloud security and IAM (Identity Access Management) are two areas that exploding currently, so either perhaps could be a focal point. It is and will continue to be a hot sector, and there are around 800K unfulfilled security positions in the U.S., thus demand and salaries will continue to be at a premium. It also can be very rewarding work, and my 4 year old likes to tell his classmates that his dad fights the bad guys for a living….just not physically or anything.

                  Feel free to leave your email if you’d like to chat further, and I wish him the best of luck.

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                • Gurkha Dawg

                  Thanks for the detailed response. Augusta certainly does not have the large companies that Atlanta does, but the US Army Cyber Command is located at Ft Gordon near Augusta. So cyber is a big deal around here. What’s the best way get you my email. I really don’t want to leave it in a public place. I trust my fellow Dawgs, but who knows when some low life gator or barner will stumble by.

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                • 3rdandGrantham

                  Hmm, perhaps email Senator, and he perhaps wouldn’t mind connecting us. mbroch@gmail.com . I’ll give him a heads up on my end.

                  Like

      • Sides

        As someone involved with manufacturing in the US and importing goods from China, this is definitely a trade war too. What was in the almost signed trade deal that would prevent cyber attacks and intellectual theft? How would you police it?

        As for the comment about importers paying tariffs, importers directly pay the bill but these costs will be passed on to many people indirectly. Companies are negotiating lower costs with their Chinese suppliers to offset the impact of a 25% tariff. China will lose business because of these increased costs because companies will source from other countries (including USA). Consumers will pay more but most people will not notice.

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        • 3rdandGrantham

          Apologies for the lack of clarity – certainly this is a trade war as well, but the impetus for our tough stance with China involves cybersecurity attacks that they continue to wage against us. Simply put, from a security perspective it is an all out war currently.

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          • Mad Mike

            After reading Ghost Fleet whas scares the hell out of me is have the Chinese built backdoors into all the computer chips we import from them?

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            • 3rdandGrantham

              Absolutely. Very real threat. Google ” Huawei” and how this Chinese back org infiltrated an entire nation who also is a key NATO ally, Poland. They got immense Intel from our conversations with Poland due to cyber eavesdropping.

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              • I’m in cyber security as well and I agree with you on China is the #1 threat. I have (had) a Huawei phone and just got ride of it due to that issue lol.

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    • Anonymous

      I will start with the fact that 3rdandGrantham is much more right that people think. Secondly, the point isnt’ that China would be paying the actual tariffs. China started a Trade War with us about 25-30 years ago. It wasn’t long after they gained MFN status (a huge mistake by Bush 41) that it started. We have ignored until Trump came into office.

      The tariffs are chosen for products that have the highest elasticity of replacement. That is products that we can purchase elsewhere for not much more money. The point isn’t to raise money; they point is to make it more expensive to do business in China so as to pressure companies to move to other countries. China might not pay the tariff, but neither will Foxconn if they move their factory to Vietnam. The leverage on China is their fear of losing millions of jobs. They economy is actually quite fragile. This is especially true with risks of people wanting more rights as they become wealthier there. Xi is between a rock and a hard place. They were close to a deal when China backed out thinking that they had some leverage. Trump told them eat a dick. They’ll come back to the table.

      Like

  4. hooper

    Bet he makes Iran pay for the war.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. ASEF

    Russia has been looking for a Middle East Reset button for long, long time. No time like the present, when you’ve got a US President up to his neck in Russian money laundering over the past 20 years who goes to kiss Putin’s ring every chance he gets.

    Going to war with this administration in charge is a staggering level of dumb. We don’t even have a Secretary of Defense.

    I get people who decided that Trump > Hillary. I do. But if you meant an ounce of the hundred pounds of reasons why you offered then, you have to start standing up to this guy and the sycophants he has surrounded himself with. It’s on you. You’re his audience. You enable him. Make America Great Again starts with you.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Chris

      You’re welcome.

      By the way, no American president since Reagan has been tougher on Russia than Trump, despite the media’s best shot at obstructing this president. Your software needs to be updated NPC, Muh Russia was so 2 years ago.

      Liked by 2 people

      • ASEF

        That’s a staggering level of cognitive dissonance right there. At complete odds with facts. But that’s the echo chamber extreme partisans live in these days. Congrats on signing over your brain to Hannity. He tips a toast in your direction from his private jet.

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        • Chris

          Very convincing argument with irrefutable facts and sources. Would read again. So brave.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Trump deploys TANKS to Estonia as NATO builds up HUGE army on Russian border – Express, Feb 7 2017

          Trump launches attack on Syria with 59 Tomahawk missiles – CNBC, Apr 6 2017

          U.S. Rejects Exxon Mobil Bid for Waiver on Russia Sanctions – NYT, Apr 21 2017

          Trump to promote U.S. natgas exports in Russia’s backyard – Reuters, Jul 3 2017

          Trump Urges East Europe to Loosen Russia’s Grip With U.S. Gas – Bloomberg, Jul 6 2017

          Trump signs bill approving new sanctions against Russia – CNN, Aug 3, 2017

          Justice Dept Asks Russia’s RT to Register as Foreign Agent – Newsmax, Sep 13 2017

          US ‘to restrict Russian military flights over America’ – Independent, Sep 26 2017

          Trump signs into law U.S. government ban on Kaspersky Lab software – Reuters, Dec 12 2017

          Trump gives green light to selling lethal arms to Ukraine – The Hill, Dec 20 2017

          U.S. Punishes Chechen Leader in New Sanctions Against Russians – NYT, Dec 20 2017

          Sputnik Partner ‘Required To Register’ Under U.S. Foreign-Agent Law – RFERL, Jan 10 2018

          Trump says Russia is helping North Korea avoid sanctions – CBSNews, Jan 17 2018

          Trump’s ‘energy dominance’ strategy is undercutting Russia’s influence and business in Europe – Reuters, Feb 9 2018

          Trump looks to deter Russia, China with $686B ask for Pentagon – The Hill, Feb 12 2018

          American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle – The Drive, Mar 16 2018

          Trump orders expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats, closure of Seattle consulate – CBS, Mar 26 2018

          Trump vows periodical dispatch of US troops to Baltic states, step up air defense – Lithuania Tribune, Apr 3 2018

          Trump opposes Nord Stream II, questions Germany – AA, Apr 4 2018

          Trump just hit Russian oligarchs with the most aggressive sanctions yet – Vice, Apr 6 2018

          Trump orders missile strike on Syria military targets – CBSNews, Apr 9 2018

          Aluminum Stocks Jump As Trump Sanctions Target Putin Pal – Investors, Apr 9 2018

          Russia ‘deeply disappointed’ at Trump’s withdrawal from Iran deal – Times of Israel, May 9 2018

          Trump to NATO allies: Raise military spending to 4 percent of GDP – AlJazeerah, Jul 12 2018

          Trump says U.S. ties to NATO ‘very strong’ – Politico, Jul 12 2018

          U.S. to sanction Turkey for receiving S-400 missiles – Ahval, Jul 27 2018

          Trump administration to hit Russia with new sanctions for Skripal poisoning – NBC News Aug 8 2018

          Space Force Is Trump’s Answer to New Russian and Chinese Weapons – FP, Aug 10 2018

          US Sanctions Chinese Entity Over Purchase of Russian Fighters, S-400s – Treasury – Sputnik, Sep 20 2018

          Trump hints at punitive action against India for buying S-400 from Russia – India Today, Oct 11 2018

          Trump Agrees to Boost Pentagon’s Budget to $750 Bln in 2019 – Reports – Sputnik, Oct 12 2018

          Trump says US will withdraw from nuclear arms treaty with Russia – Guardian, Oct 21 2018

          Haley Condemns ‘Outrageous’ Russian Firing on Ukrainian Ships – Bloomberg, Nov 26 2018

          2 Trump Moves Cost This Russian-American CEO $2.3B – Forbes, Jan 14 2019

          How much more evidence do we need that Trump is Putin’s puppet? I mean, wake up sheeple!

          Liked by 2 people

      • Derek

        Putin picked Trump for a reason. If you’re not worried about that, it’s called treason.

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        • Chris

          I’m not worried because it didn’t happen. The fact you think it did means someone else committed treason, or more accurately sedition, to get you to believe that.

          FISA Declas is happening. Tick Tock.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Derek

            So you don’t believe in the accuracy of Bill Barr’s 4 page letter?

            Pompeo’s sworn testimony?

            The Mueller report?

            The assessment of Trump’s DNI?

            NO ONE in the trump administration denies that Russia interfered on trump’s behalf. NO ONE.

            That you’re covering for Putin’s military intel operation means you are a traitor.

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            • Chris

              Russia has “interfered” in every election post WW2. The fact that you get your panties in a bunch shows your lack of awareness and overall competency.

              No report shows Russian inference affected the ballot box. NOT ONE. Stop lying to yourself.

              Ironically, all this “interference” happened under 8 years of Obama’s watch. And yet Trump is a traitor. Fuck off. You and your ilk should be publically ostracized for spreading lies and propaganda.

              Liked by 2 people

              • Cojones

                So the tracing of the Russian hacker reach into the county level of several states during the election means zilch to you? With no plans to stop that next election time means that you approve of such trial and error attempts to influence our elections? What investigation has been undertaken to show that they didn’t influence our election results (as you seem to maintain)?

                Your head in the sand rhetoric doesn’t do shit for stopping Russian aggressiveness towards our way of democratic life that is being short-circuited as we type.

                “Traitor” is the only word to be applied to Trump’s lack of pursuit to stop this crap. Just imagine what you would be typing if these traitorous acts were perpetrated by Obama. Enjoy your cult until it no longer is.

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              • Derek

                Please post the intel assessment regarding Russian influence into the 1948-2012 presidential elections.

                Here’s the one for 2016:

                Click to access ICA_2017_01.pdf

                Quoting:
                “We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.“

                You’re a traitor.

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        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Like Derek, I have long believed that we need to redefine treason to be the offense of having preferences in line with foreign leaders.

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      • Rick

        NPC

        If anyone is unclear, “NPC” is a term popular in the most insane parts of Trump’s cult these days. It is a video game term popularized on 4chan (where the Christchurch terrorist was radicalized and streamed his massacre), and is used to refer to anyone not in the cult. It means that they do not view you as a real person, but just a minimally programmed background character in their universe.

        So if you are curious why they hold beliefs like “No one is tougher on Russia than Trump”, don’t bother. It’s just the tip of the iceberg with these folks.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. I guess it isn’t a bad idea if we want access to the Caspian Sea.

    Like

  7. DawgPhan

    I didnt expect the playpen to immediately go to “the us should kill or enslave every woman and child” but you guys did it.

    great work everyone.

    Like

  8. Jared S.

    John Kasich save us!!!!!

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  9. Mayor

    We don’t need a war with Iran. We need to get out of the Middle East completely. In fact, we need to get all our troops home from Europe and Korea too. This whole idea that the US is policeman for the world (at our expense) is balderdash. At minimum we need to send a bill to all the nations we supply security for (Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc.).

    Like

    • Derek

      We’ll let Russia and China control international shipping. What could go wrong?

      If you want to run shit, there’s a cost. If you let others run shit, there’s a price.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Derek

    If you think Iraq was stupid, then hire John Bolton and prove you’re even stupider.

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    • Agreed. We are overseas to protect our interests, not theirs.

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    • Cojones

      Yeah. Bolton has wanted to war-hawk for some time and now has the perfect opportunity. He’s the one pushing a shooting war with Iran that would drag every country from Armenia south into the fray. And who is backing the play of those countries in the area?

      If Bolton ever looks toward Armenia, he can start another WWI debacle that drags Turkey and all the -stan countries into an Eurasian war-of-the-world. That war-mongering asshole was brought into Trump’s administration by the far right American oligarchs and Trump will follow him because the money boys with the war manufacturing businesses are pulling the strings.

      This moment in history with a feckless President is scary.

      Like

    • Anonymous

      I was horrified when Trump hired John Bolton. I’m starting to think Trump hired him just so that Bolton would run his mouth so that Trump would know to do the exact opposite of what Bolton said. Bolton deserves to watch his family die in a fire. Unfortunately, I’m afraid that might give him an erection that lasts longer than 4 hours. Fuck that guy.

      Like

  11. JoshG

    Here all this time I thought that the federal and state governments had taken my freedoms. Turns out, they were in Iran. Well, go over there and bring them back, protectos of freedom!

    Like

  12. Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

    There isn’t an eye roll emoji big enough for this latest bit of fake newsery. As someone who was once a Marine, let me inform you:

    Of course there’s a plan to invade Iran. There are plans for invasion for just about everywhere on the globe you can think. Those plans are even trained and executed by Marine and Army divisions, even if the on the ground grunts just think they’re going through a “random” CAX in 29 Palms or whatever the Army version of CAX is.
    These plans are called contingencies. They’ve been there for decades. Maybe even a century, at this point. They’re also constantly updated based on new intelligence estimates.
    The biased fuckers in the media know the top 2 points. They knew these plans existed in the 8 years prior to Trump’s election. Funny how they never talked about them then, but today they mischaracterize it as, “Trump is going to invade Iran!!!”

    I hope this information ends whatever insane thing the Derek’s of the world are going to come in and say. You’re welcome.

    Now, can we get back to our regularly scheduled program of making fun of Sideshow Dan’s clown show inside a dumpster fire down in Gainesville?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Derek

      Excellent post!

      This happens every day too: http://fortune.com/2019/05/15/iraq-embassy-evacuation/

      But you knew that! The librul fake newsers at Fortune didn’t tho.

      Like

    • There was a plan to invade Iraq, too. That went well.

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      • JoshG

        Exactly, Senator. Unfortunately, memories are so short.

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        • John Bolton doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who learns from his mistakes.

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            • Glenn Greenwald, you say? I’ll pass.

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              • Napoleon BonerFart

                https://www.springhole.net/logical-fallacies/attack-the-source.htm

                The polling info Greenwald reported on was from Politico. Or are they on your blacklist as well?

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                • Glenn has an agenda, so I’m not really interested in his pitch.

                  I haven’t blacklisted any publication, but I’m confused. Isn’t Politico one of them librul media types? I didn’t think we’re supposed to take them at face value.

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  You can ignore whatever facts you like. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. The fact is, Democrats are now at least as pro-war as Republicans.

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                • “But what is remarkable about the new polling data on Syria is that the vast bulk of support for keeping troops there comes from Democratic Party voters, while Republicans and independents overwhelming favor their removal,” Greenwald writes. “The numbers are stark: Of people who voted for Clinton in 2016, only 26 percent support withdrawing troops from Syria, while 59 percent oppose it.”

                  I see nothing in there about Iran, or about war support in general. What I do see are numbers breaking down in accordance with general Trump support at the time. By the way, American troops are still in Syria, are they not? I must have missed all the Republican grumbling about that.

                  Like I said, Greenwald has an agenda. An agenda isn’t the same thing as a fact. But you keep doing that “I’m not a Trump supporter” voodoo you do so well.

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  You don’t see Iran because the poll and the report was about Syria. Now, you’re free to believe that military action in Iran is just completely unique and special and different from military action in Syria, which the Democrats supported. You would be wrong, but I guess loyalty to party has to take precedence.

                  Liked by 1 person

      • UGADrake

        So did the one for Bengazi. Of course, we could go back and forth at this all day….

        Like

        • Don’t know what you mean about back and forth. Having a plan doesn’t mean shit by itself if the underlying premise isn’t realistic, or the proposed tactics are inadequate, regardless of the circumstances.

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      • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

        Yeah, that’s not what I was saying, and you know that. There are plans to invade EVERYWHERE. That is all this is. The media reporting on something that’s absolutely nothing.

        The only way Iran is invaded is if they make a move on Israel or if the possibility they gain the nuke Obama and Kerry made it much easier for them to get.

        Other than that, no. Iran is not being invaded.

        Liked by 2 people

        • The US is going to invade a country that has a nuclear weapon?

          That would be a first.

          Might want to stop digging now.

          Like

          • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

            I’m giving you the only two reasons why Iran would be invaded. I’m not digging anything, Senator. Unlike many commenting here, I’m making a statement from an actual place of knowledge of how these things work.

            And I didn’t say they’d invade Iran once they got a nuke. I said there would be a possibility of invading Iran if it became possible they’d gain a nuke, but even that was misspoken by me. What I should’ve said was if it were a certainty that Iran were going to get a nuke.

            Even then, it’d be far more likely SEALs or Delta were sent in to destroy the uranium enrichment facility.

            Anyway Senator, feel free to continue your regularly scheduled TDS.

            Like

            • And I didn’t say they’d invade Iran once they got a nuke. I said there would be a possibility of invading Iran if it became possible they’d gain a nuke, but even that was misspoken by me. What I should’ve said was if it were a certainty that Iran were going to get a nuke.

              Even then, it’d be far more likely SEALs or Delta were sent in to destroy the uranium enrichment facility.

              LMAO.

              Now do North Korea.

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              • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

                Again… I’m giving you the actual scenarios under which Iran would be attacked or invaded. I’m not saying they WILL be, even if those scenarios come to pass. I’m telling you what could happen, and the only way that could happen. Iran is not being invaded unless those scenarios come to pass, and even then, it’s not a certainty. Any reports that say to the contrary are 100% bullshit.

                But sure. Y’all do you. Truth is relative in the face of TDS, both forms of TDS (the pro and anti).

                Liked by 1 person

                • Look, I appreciate your service, but the idea that you being a Marine gives you unquestioned insight into how US foreign policy works doesn’t fly.

                  The US invaded Iraq, not because of some real life red line that was crossed, but because a group of folks in the White House wanted to invade and cooked up a false set of circumstances to justify their goal.

                  And before you say that was a unique situation, remember that John Bolton is Trump’s chief foreign policy advisor now. Add to that the idea that the Iraq invasion led to Bush’s greatest level of political popularity as being something that might prove an attractive strategy to Trump as 2020 grows nearer.

                  So, you can insist all you want about the only way things could happen. The reality is you don’t know any more than I do.

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                • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

                  Like I said, we’re living in an era in which truth is relative. You’re obviously going to believe what you want to believe. I know what I know, and I also have enough common sense to reject this bit of media driven bullshit.

                  I mean, to me, this is as stupid as Gator fans who honestly, truly believe Sideshow Dan is going to dominate Kirby as soon as this year because Kirby called a fake punt that didn’t work. There’s no logic or reason for them to believe this, only their complete and utter irrational belief fed to them by their biased pro-Florida news sources.

                  THAT is what THIS is. Anyway, I tried, and am not interested in continuing to try today.

                  Did anyone see the Tolkien movie that came out this weekend? I was supposed to go see it last night, but am still a but under the weather, so I didn’t. The reviews aren’t great, but I love Tolkien’s real life story, so I’m still wondering if I should see it or wait until it comes out on Blu Ray.

                  Like

                • I know what I know, and I also have enough common sense to reject this bit of media driven bullshit.

                  Maybe you could explain to ExxonMobil it has nothing to worry about.

                  Like

                • Sides

                  I wouldn’t only blame ‘a group of folks in the White House’ for the Iraq war. War is not going to increase Trump’s popularity and he knows it. One of the most popular themes of his campaign was the end of stupid wars. The Iraq war also destroyed Bush’s popularity and arguably was a big factor in the election of Obama.

                  Like

                • Anyone who claims to know what Trump knows is on a fool’s errand. Just listen to him on that clip I posted.

                  Like

                • Dawgflan

                  But, But… Weapons of Mass Destruction!

                  Like

            • Derek

              If they get a nuke then Trump sits down with the Ayatollah in Singapore and Vietnam and calls him a “good guy.”

              Like

          • Anonymous

            Congratulation on completely missing the point. There are plans to invade Canada and Australia. When Corch says everywhere, he means EVERYWHERE. The existence of plans is meaningless. The probability of invading Iran are basically nil.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

              Thank you, Anonymous. TDS is so strong, both anti- and pro-, that it turns so many normally reasonable people into unreasonable people. I can’t wait until it’s over, whenever that will be.

              Like

              • You’ve been ranting and insulting other commenter who disagree with you about football, but now you regret normally reasonable people being unreasonable?

                You are too much, my man.

                Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

                  What’s one have to do with the other? I call strawman. Sports are not rational, and I’ve never claimed to be rational about sports. On the blog the other day, I made a comment about Richt based off what you said, and the Richt apologists came after me. I responded in kind. Also, there’s nothing unfactual with what I’ve said today, yet time and again, you took it out of context. And if it’s because you truly believe Trump is going to declare war on Iran, after pulling troops out Syria and using limited engagement to just about end ISIS, then I got nothing for you, man. You have full-blown TDS. I don’t like Trump, but neither am I over here fretting he’s gonna push the button.

                  Because I’m a reasonable person. Believing Trump is going to declare war on Iran is not the belief of a reasonable person. 🤷🏻‍♂️

                  Like

                • And if it’s because you truly believe Trump is going to declare war on Iran…

                  “If” is doing some seriously heavy lifting there. If you think it’s irrational to question what is going on right now, based on John Bolton’s oversized influence on current foreign policy, I got nothing. Unless you’re simply saying it’s irrational to disagree with your world view…

                  Like

              • Anonymous

                I can’t wait until it’s over, whenever that will be.

                ODS and TDS are just the beginning. This is the new normal. The nonsensical fantasy-logic will only get worse. Our knowledge of how to brainwash people is growing at a rate exponentially faster than our biological or social evolution. I’m not sure how we survive as a Union unless someone can brainwash both sides into believing in Federalism again.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers New USC Trojans Corch (2020)

                  The way it’s going, with Millennials actually not believing in the sanctify of free speech, in defending speech even if you find it reprehensible, it really is going to shit. Our only hope is the generation after these a-holes. They seem to be much more like my generation, Gen-X, in that they just wanna let people be people who do their thing with the least amount of bother possible.

                  People like AOC, though, I can only hope they’re mostly bypassed for real leadership in the country. That Gen-X leaders lead for years longer than the Boomers thanks to continuing medical advances. Because if Millennials actually ever do run shit, we’re fucked.

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                • Anonymous

                  I don’t think that “Millennials” are the problem so much as that there is a very vocal minority on the left that is sucking all of the air out of the room. Either that minority (i.e. the Justice Democrats and their supporters) takes over the Democratic Party and it dies, or that minority goes the way of the Tea Party. The Republicans lost in 2008 in their purity spiral for who could be the biggest war monger. The Tea Party died between the 2010 and 2012 elections due to astroturfing. The Democrats are set to do the same this cycle with their Social Justice / Identity Politics purity spiral. Don’t forget that Baby Boomers went from literal hippies to cocaine addled Reaganite Yuppies to Trump supporting dipshits holding protest signs that say “Get The Governments Hands Off My Medicare”. Stupidity knows no generational bounds… fuck Boomers though.

                  t. a fellow Gen Xer

                  Like

            • Jesus, man. I’m not worried about plans.

              I’m worried about the planners.

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              • Anonymous

                The planners are military officers and government civilians in the DOD, State Department, CIA, etc. i.e. the “Deep State”. Political appointees don’t make the plans. Also, just so you know, we were A LOT closer to a boots on the ground invasion of Syria during the Obama Administration than we are with anything related to Iran.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Unless there’s been a coup I missed, policy in this country is still set by civilians. The military only prepares as it’s instructed. Indeed, what’s noteworthy here isn’t, as you say, that plans exist. It’s that the Sec. of Defense announced that plans have just been revised to suit the sabre-rattling needs of folks like Bolton.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.” – Chuck Schumer

                  Now it’s possible that Trump could drag the deep state, kicking and screaming, into deescalating tensions abroad. If anyone could do it, it would probably be Trump. But so far, he looks like Obama. Obama came into office preaching peace and let the MIC push him into escalating wars.

                  It’s a mistake to assume that all foreign policy just naturally flows from the whims of the president. You’re fond of pointing out that journalists (at least some of them) have agendas. Career bureaucrats do too.

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      • Chris

        If we start to hear about CIA intelligence reports about Iran leaking to the MSM, be very afraid.

        Where does the the deep state military industrial complex want us next now that NK has/is being dealt with?

        Like

        • Dude, you’re gonna have to cast your troll bait somewhere else. You’re a fan of the POTUS and that’s understood by me.

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          • Chris

            Senator, you compared contingency plans for Iran with the invasion of Iraq. While certainly that’s a false equivalency, we do share the same skepticism of our government, but for different reasons.

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            • What, you think Bush woke up one morning and said, “WTF, let’s go”? They had plans then, too.

              My point is that having contingency plans doesn’t mean a whole lot if they’re based on faulty assumptions or backed by bad strategy. Which I’ve already noted in this thread and which you evidently didn’t see.

              Try again, sporto.

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        • Derek

          Ask Qanon dude. Get woke!

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        • ilini84

          Is/has my ass. Shit is no better there than it was when I was there 50+ years ago.

          Like

  13. stoopnagle

    Gross.

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  14. Cojones

    I don’t review the film of recruits when posted, but it may be worthwhile for some to review the one on Carson Beck, our new QB commit. It was highlighted on Dawgbone in a way that attracted my attention and his passing is something to behold. This kid is one hell of an athlete.

    Like

  15. Russ

    I hate myself. I’m now going back to reading the Dawg Vent where it’s more civil.

    Like