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Agree or disagree?
By the way, here’s Bill’s advanced stats take on the game:
Hard for me to argue with any of those bullet points.
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“We remember the Sugar Bowl, I think it my junior year of high school, we let Alabama beat us twice,” Brinson said of a team that also lost to the Crimson Tide in the SEC Championship game. “We’re not letting Alabama beat us twice. In the Sugar Bowl in 2018, they… thought they should have been in the playoffs and lost to Texas.” -- AB-H, 12/27/23
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Get The Picture · Bloviation for the Dawgnation
Get The Picture 
I would suggest folks give the podcast a listen with Felder and Jones before going in on Bill C’s tweet. It’s a good listen and gives a little more context.
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http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/12563086
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Has Tua been at Alabama for a decade now?
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Good point.
Kirby IS coaching like Saban did 10 years ago. He’s also coaching like Saban did 2-3 years ago. He’s not coaching like Saban the last two season with wide open offense. I’m still not convinced the newer style is better.
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Check out Alabama 2014 and 2015 with Sims and Coker. Real focus on having a Top 20 scoring team. They leaned heavily on Derrick Henry down the stretch in 2015 because of injuries, but Lane Kiffin running an offense isn’t exactly a conservative move.
Saban wanted to be able to win shootouts and avoid games where YOLO randomness overcame a thin margin for error. He was talking about that explicitly in the wake of Kick 6 and Stoops’ offense handing him his ass in the Sugar Bowl.
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I was thinking the same. During the Kiffin years their focus was very different. There were times when the Alabama offense was actually entertaining to watch.
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Right
And yet, with much tougher competition faced by UGA, the statistical results are …. the SAME:
Top Yardage Differential
– Per Play (tempo adjusted)
+5.0 Oklahoma
+3.9 Alabama
+3.9 UGA
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I am not taking up for Kirby because football has changed a lot in the last 10 years, but I think that the Saban way from 2008 until whenever you want to delineate is pretty good and is historically the way that all football coaches would prefer. The old Saban way may not beat the new Saban way but the old Saban way was never beat by 20+ points in the national championship game.
I think that Kirby would prefer to play “manball” or whatever the term is and will adjust as needed BUT sometimes his adjustments (not running the ball or trusting the defense) are just as derided as his naturally conservative approach.
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Saban had won multiple NCs a decade ago. Could be worse, he could be coaching like Ron Zook. Or Boom.
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I haven’t listed to the podcast but I don’t get the gnashing of teeth over that 4th and 1 call. If we into the “airing of grievances” phase, then I could pick out other items that I thought elicited more head scratching than that call.
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Especially since the call worked out. It was a 50/50 call at worst, certainly not a no-brainer to go for it. CKS may have been conservative here but he was not stubbornly trying to “impose our will.”
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Agree on 50/50 call. I honestly thought it was the right call in the moment after watching our D stifle ND.
Thing is, any call can backfire. Even the right call. As they say, sometimes it’s not about making the right decision, but making the decision right. We should have played better D on ND’s ensuing possession. That’s what has really colored people’s perspectives of the FG call.
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Prior to that call, ND had ONE drive for more than 30 yards. It was the right call at that time, and proved to be right as indeed, ND was not capable of 2 sustained scoring drives. (The last one, with all the momentum, they only got 14 yards staring at our 48).
All that being said I wished he went for it!!
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Sorry, their 48.
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right on target.
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Kirby should review the tape of Dooley’s last game against Michigan State….he let Haffner open up the playbook like never before
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We kind of had to with MSU converting 3rd and 39 etc. all night!
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Kind of sounds like he’s saying what a lot of folks have been saying here the last couple of day. Although he has the stats to back it up and we haven’t made the comparisons to Saban.
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I mean… that’s not exactly a revelatory comment from anyone. Lots of us have been discussing Kirby being stuck in a 2009 mentality for a few years now. It’s maddening, but apparently, it’s not going anywhere because after UGA choked away two leads against Bama the last two years, Kirby seems to have doubled down on the man-ball approach.
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Don’t watch enough of saban to make a comparison. I think Smart is coaching big games like a NFL coach where 60 plays and scoring 23 to 30 is plenty. If you play well, win the turnover battle you go 12-4 or 13-3 and get in the playoffs. It’s a qb, defense, field position league. Not exactly the formula in college where every loss is magnified and can be fatal and the good teams score in bunches.
I think our game planning doesn’t seem to account for the idea that scoring is at a premium especially against good teams. Playing small ball against good teams can cost you where you have the better roster.
I also think our judgement with a lead or in tight games has been less than optimal.
I’d like to see us go faster, get our play count above 80 and worry less about putting our defense in a bad position. Not suggesting a difference in terms of “balance” but in terms of pace. Most teams simply can’t handle 80+ snaps against us.
Let’s use that defensive depth and the OL to break other teams will before the 4th starts. Let’s also take advantage of the fact that we have a half dozen guys who can house it every time they touch it. 20 to 25 more touches should generate points.
It could be that they look at Fromm and the young receivers and say they can’t win 43-38 ballgames. What they can do is play defense and grind out 25 to 30 against anyone and we can keep great teams to 20 or less. It’s possible they are right but I question whether you can count on beating Lawrence or Tua in a 23-17 type game.
But I’m not making 7 million a year to decide these things.
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I’m with you on pace, man. Especially when we have athletes who can make big plays and get better they more “lathered up” they are…..
I believe at the end of the first half we had 16min time of possession to ND’s 14min. Yet ND had run 31 plays to our 24. Not good.
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Right on, I agree with pretty much all of the above.
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The present style would get this team killed by Oklahoma (for instance).
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True. Kirby would never be able to win a playoff game against a mobile, elusive OU QB that can sling it all over the field.
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Agreed. Analytics made a great argument when Saban was grousing about play counts. Mainly that when you have superior athleticism, you want more rolls of the dice (plays), not less. Because you loaded the dice when you won all those recruiting battles.
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Superior talent wins over time. You have a better chance of beating Tiger Woods if you play 3 holes rather than 18, or 72. If you have less talent but good execution, you can try to shorten the game by slowing it down. Thus, the Princeton offense in hoops.
I don’t fault kirby’s 4th down call at all. Even if it was stupid (it wasn’t, to me), if it’s stupid and it works, it’s it stupid. I do wonder why we don’t use tempo more; we seemed to have ND on their heels when we did.
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Saban is 500 picking up the pace against Clemson. The tempo and shots down field changed with Kiffin. I believe Kirby thinks the score 1st ignore the clock route nearly cost Bama in ’15 and did in ’16.
If the Bama offense holdd on to the ball with long drives which were common previously were still in place, Smart’s D defends a few less possessions and isn’t on the field to give up a score. If they do have to go on the field they are not as tired.
Clemson’s offense tired Bama’s D in 16 and the offense couldn’t keep up.
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You think Bama would be 4 for 4 with their 2013 offense?
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I don’t know about the 2013 offense but the 2011 and 2012 team would have faired better than the later versions.
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Agreed further it depends on which defense. Smart re design the D after the 15 Ohio St game.
I do think Smart’s actions have made clear it he likes ball control and limiting opponents possessions. In the 2nd Bama Clemson game, Bama get the ball with 4:30 to scores a TD in ~2:30 to go up 3. Clemson gets the ball 2 to go and scores a TD. A minute extra on the last Bama drive changes things. Bama had 1 possession all night of over 3 minutes.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/playbyplay?gameId=400876570
You wouldn’t have to go ultra conservative to limit Clemson 2 possessions in the 2nd half.
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Bama was 2 of 16 on 3rd down in that game. Largely because Clemson took away their ability to run and Hurts could not run a possession passing game against elite defenses. It’s why Saban flipped to Tua in the next championship game.
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The prior offenses would of had QBs who ran a possession passing game or dual threat that which would have had drives which used more clock.
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or dual threat that which would have been able to run a possession game
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I think Kirbs should have gone for it on 4th and 1 for the reason Gary Danielson mentioned at the time — that Georgia will quite possibly need to convert on 4th and 1 somewhere in the season.
It was the perfect situation for a “trial” run. Because, as Gary said, the three FG points weren’t going to help you that much anyway. So, if you don’t get the conversion it teaches you valuable things you need to know about the team and it doesn’t hurt you too bad in the moment. And if you DO get the conversion, not only does it put the game out of reach for ND, it instills some valuable confidence in your team going forward.
Like so many others have said, for a guy who preaches so much about imposing his will, he basically blinked.
Then again, maybe the only play he had drawn up for 4th-and-1 was a pass behind the line of scrimmage. In which case he made the correct call to kick.
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We had the 4th and 1 trial run at Vandy and failed.
Might have been on his mind, as well as a few (7?) 4th and 1s at the goal-line in JVille!
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I like this Fromm stat, especially for Jacksonville:
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Although we can argue that Kirby’s game management is questionable, can we reflect on his amazing roster management? Without the play of Cager, and J.R. Reed we probably don’t win the game. Not to mention the play of Eli Wolf and Jermaine Johnson. All transfers into the program, and Cager is a shining example of how to address an immediate need.
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Hear, hear. All day long. That was the difference in the game. It’s also hard to control for the effect of some key injuries (DBs, OLs) when judging the game management.
Either way, Kirby’s relentless pursuit of roster improvement through recruiting and transfers is so critical. Night and day contrast with our previous staff.
I do have some concerns about our offensive identity / mentality after this game. But I’m giving Kirby a lot of credit for how we gutted out a win despite some early injuries and setbacks.
Also, what we’ve done to improve our facilities and the game atmosphere at Sanford since he got here deserves a mention of some kind.
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True. Without the roster management work, Georgia’s offense would be as limited as Notre Dame (who was missing its top running back). It was the difference in the game.
However, there is no Jeudy, Ruggs, DeVonta Smith, or Justyn Ross lining up for Georgia, so a wide-open Alabama or Clemson spread attack does not make sense with current personnel. Look at Auburn’s offensive struggles last year if you have doubts.
However despite the talent lost last year, Georgia does have tall physical receivers capable of battling DBs and clearing a path for a teammate, much like we saw Saturday. Perhaps Pickens and Blaylock can build themselves into that elite level, but they are not there now.
This is the identity of this team and it isn’t going to change in 2019.
Fortunately, Georgia’s defense is deeper and more experienced than last year and there is good leadership on that side of the ball. Special teams can also be elite when consistency is gained in the punting and return teams.
Georgia isn’t going to blow out or dazzle top ten teams this season, but it is built to withstand a long competitive schedule and earn it’s opportunity.
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We.Won.
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That’s the kicker. We won, and will likely to continue to win. If it aint broke dont fix it. Why change what is working? Dance with the one that brought ya.
But LSU and Bama exist and we need to beat them and what we are doing is objectively not working towards that goal.
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Kirby tried to shorten the 2017 National Title Game and lost a big lead.
Then he did the same thing in the 2018 SEC Title Game and lost a big lead.
He did it again on Saturday and it worked. There’s a lesson but Kirby is being pig-headed about it.
This works fine against the SEC East where nobody is even close to our level of talent. Against teams with our talent level, it’s a dicier proposition.
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UGA’s offense has been really good. Fromm has been really good. It never seems like we are seeing the offense wide open and really putting pressure on defenses to cover the entire field at all times.
On defense the lack of TFLs and sacks showed back up with just 3 TFLs and no sacks.
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ND ran the ball with no effectiveness. How many times did we get home where Book got outside the tackle box just to throw the ball into the hedges? It isn’t a sack, but to me, that’s a havoc play. He threw 2 picks and should have had a 3rd that would be a pick 6.
The defense played damn good except for 2 plays to the tight end.
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But this team and these coaches have been preaching havoc rate and sacking the QB. We heard all the chatter about the increase in sacks this year. Every player can recite what plays are havoc plays. But against ND those TFLs and sacks disappeared.
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When you’re without your top 2 corners, you just might want to focus on protecting the backend of the defense rather than creating havoc IMO.
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Agreed further 1 TD was on a muffed punt and a very short field. Take away that and the game is 23-10 which was the spread.
I am not completely happy with the game but with so many young kids seeing the big stage for the 1st time….. I’ll take it. I think the team will be that much better off when Auburn, the WLOCP, and hopefully the post season rolls around.
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Well, on offense, I just don’t see Kirby going the wide open route and IMO, I think he may feel like opening up the offense may cost some of the physicality that he loves. As for the low havoc rate for ND, I think the focus might have been on stopping the run and making Book try to win the game with his arm rather than his feet.
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Per Connely’s box score the defense had a decent amount of havoc plays. I am unsure as to the varying definitions of havoc. I think of it like a sack or hurry that leads to a turnover.
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I want to see more passes thrown between the numbers, but I also realize our WR’s haven’t been getting a lot separation. Would someone more football-savvy educate me on why we haven’t seen this yet?
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On Saturday there was no such thing as pass interference, so 4 of the deep throws were nullified. The DBs were in man because ND had 8 in the box knowing they could mug the WRs. In that game there were 75 total passes without a single interference or holding penalty on any DB. If I recall correctly there was only 1 holding penalty on either teams offense on a passing down. I think Tom Brady called the refs before hand.
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You recall correctly.
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I’m pretty certain we were called for PI early in the ND game. I think it was also the only one called all game.
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IIRC, Daniel got whistled for PI on a ball in the end zone on ND’s first scoring drive.
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That is correct, and it was PI (but so were the muggings of George Pickens in that game, IMO)
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Ran ok once Wilson came in. Mays had a really rough night at tackle. He can play guard in a phone booth just fine. But he struggles mightily in space.
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The troubling thing to me is the 4th quarter looked like every 4th quarter in the SECCG and NCG when we played a more talented team. Because this team had less talent we pulled it out. But this game should have never ended that close. As I said before I do not think we got as much out of what we had as ND did out of what they had. If our mind set doesn’t change I believe we are headed for a repeat of 2017 or last years SECCG.
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Ditto
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Too much hand-wringing over one game that we won. My biggest takeaway was the correctable mistakes we made that stopped several of our drives. More troubling to me was the wilddawg play call that fooled no one and stopped our momentum. Lining Fromm up at WR is just dumb. It’s not fooling anyone and takes away any threat of pass.
Also, for all the talk about our line I don’t feel like our strength is short yardage. It’s probably a combination of different things but we really don’t have a big RB or QB that’s good in that situation.
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This Wild Dawg with Jake at WR worked pretty well:
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Jake got a great kick out block in the CB to get Sony to the sideline. One of the purest moments of joy in all my years of being a Bulldog!
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I would agree he was conservative but at times he is bipolar. The same coach shouldn’t kick a field goal on fourth and half a yard but then also go for it on third and 9 with 2 minutes to go the other team having no time outs. Those calls don’t complement each other at all and nearly backfired.
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What’s he supposed to do on 3rd and 9? Down it?
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Is that’s what it takes to run 45 seconds off the clock. Time at that point way more important. It’s all analytics.
A team is less likely to score a touchdown with 1:15 left then you are of completing a back shoulder throw on 3 and 9. You just play the odds.
However we probably were more likely to pick up a fourth and half a yard than anything else. I can’t remember a TFL all night from Swift and Herrien.
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Those aren’t really “the odds” because you don’t lose the game by failing on 3rd down and 9, you just give them another 40 seconds. They STILL have to drive length of field and score. Alternatively, if you make the first down, you win without even giving them a chance with the ball.
Also, for the record, the last 3 runs by Herrien/Swift were all stopped for no gain.
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Said nearly the exact same thing as Bill during the game. I think a lot of it has to do with the unsexy reality that our receiving corps was absolutely gutted by graduation, early entries and 1 dismissal. All the talent in the world cant make up for that lost experience in such short order.
I had a gut feeling the run game would struggle. All the indicators (their weak run stats coming in, but veteran secondary) set it up for Notre Dame to feel pretty confident about exactly what was coming and that they wouldn’t be ambushed in a total sell-out to stop the run. I just think in 2019 it doesn’t even take equal talent, just comparable or even functional talent, to slow up a team dead set on pounding the run. We’ve got to develop the ability to pass-to-run in order to soften up these defenses.
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Saban loses Tua, most of his WR production, and his main RB after this season.
Their running game is not what it has been. I don’t know that they can generate a dominate running game this year and they’re throwing against tomato cans just like last year. Not to mention, that are weaker defensively than last year due to injuries and depth..
His best bet this season looks like it may be to open up the offense because I don’t think they could line up and dominate a quality opponent like they could have a few years ago.
I don’t disagree with the numbers but I’m not a slave to them either. I think for Saban it’s not a some epiphany so much as he has some Belichick in him and knows how to adjust to the tools he has to work with and right now that is Tua and those receivers. There’s a really good chance he slows down the offense next year when he has to completely retool his skill guys.
Georgia is rebuilding the receivers and his best ones are freshman and a transfer. They need to bring those guys along and build up the passing game as the year progresses but we don’t need to go full Big 12 with the offense to win a title.
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I knew I shouldn’t have read this thread. This is the most irritating reaction to a win over a legitimately good team I’ve ever seen.
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First, Biggus, I am happy with the win. Howevuh………I do wish we had a tight end like theirs, or, alternatively, used ours in the underneath area when they are using an LB for the rush. Our guys are great blockers but it would sure be nice to have them as a weapon we integrated into the game plan.
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