If it walks like a job and quacks like a job…

… it’s a fucking job.

None of that should be taken as a knock on Fields, or a slam on his approach to academics.  By all accounts he’s sharp kid who did well in school.  Nor is it to suggest that his situation is unique.

But if “few visits to campus” and “from what I have seen” aren’t ginormous tells about his tenuous link to student life, I don’t know what is.  He’s a football player who signed up for online classes because that’s the most efficient use of his time.  He’s not a college student in the normal sense and to suggest otherwise is simply enabling the NCAA’s myth making.

48 Comments

Filed under It's Just Bidness, The NCAA

48 responses to “If it walks like a job and quacks like a job…

  1. Bright Idea

    Online classes have become modern day campuses for many students, not just the QB at a big time football school. Do you really need to walk among the ivory towers to be a student-athlete?

    Like

  2. Argondawg

    That student athlete grind is not what it used to be, Online Classes, football, Netflix and X box. It’s not a bad gig

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Otto

    I don’t see that at all, I’ve had friends and coworkers that went the same route of taking online class. Working from home and online classes are becoming more normal.

    Like

  4. Bulldog Joe

    He’s not missing much. There is a reason Ohio State doesn’t feature the surrounding area in its recruiting.

    Like

  5. ugafidelis

    He’s a football student with a college problem.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Sides

    I have an online MBA. It was a better experience than my undergrad. You get all the education without the time waste of attending class. It is the future of eduction….

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    • Russ

      “It was a better experience than my undergrad.”

      Well, assuming you went to USCe, I can understand.

      You tee ’em up….
      😉

      Like

    • Charlottedawg

      Why anyone would get an online MBA outside of special circumstances like one’s employer paying for it in return for a promotion is beyond me. Huge profit center with minimal if any value to the customer, ahem student, especially for lower tier schools and their MBA programs.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Bat City Dawg

        Unless you are employer funded, generally speaking you go back for your MBA to switch careers and to broaden your network. The actual education is far down the list, unless you are trying to go from Art History to Wall Street, IMO.

        I have very few relevant business connections in my professional network from my Terry Undergrad years. I have dozens from my on-campus MBA years. Seems you would miss out on this if you did it online.

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        • Otto

          My VP at a prior employer (Fortune 50) viewed a MBA earned on campus more highly than online even if the online was a clearly higher rated University.

          I am not saying I agree but there is more than 1 reason and he isn’t alone on that thought.

          Like

          • Sides

            How would this VP know whether it was online or on campus? Half the on campus students now take classes online. The degrees are the exact same….

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            • Charlottedawg

              Because online MBAs have tell tale signs
              1) not a top 20 program
              2) not MBA type work experience post MBA (finance, consultant, private equity, fortune 500 strategy or marketing)
              3)MBA program was longer than 2 years
              4) no summer internship between years 1 and 2 of the MBA program
              5) work experience during the duration of the MBA

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              • Sides

                I choose to hire people with work experience to go along with their education. I find them to be the best employees….

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                • Charlottedawg

                  Your experience is obviously the most important factor. We want candidates with the most relevant work experience as well but when elite schools are the primary avenue to elite first jobs which leads to elite second jobs who want that prestigious first job who do you think has the more relevant experience? The guy who went to the elite school or the guy who went to UNC Charlotte?

                  Like

                • Sides

                  I would rather someone that has the drive to work in a related field while getting their education at a school like UNCC. I find much more character in people who struggle and work hard. The spoiled, wealthy kid who goes to the elite school is typically not the type of person I like to be around…

                  BTW, what qualifies as an elite job? Going to a good college and becoming another cog in the wheel at BoA? I would rather shoot myself than have an elite job like that.

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                • Charlottedawg

                  I’ll answer the second part of your question first. An elite job is one that 1)pays really well and 2) directly leads to jobs that are even more exclusive, have significant responsibility and pay even better. So real life example, guy gets into hbs, interns at Goldman, gets a return offer over the internship (again pretty much the only avenue into investment banking) and works full time at Goldman upon graduation. He’ll make $200k all in his first year, probably $350-425, 3 years in. While at Goldman he’s working on initial public offerings and mergers and acquisitions meaning he’s directly working with CEO and CFO s of huge companies and getting to know them, really well. He’s also learning about those client companies and industries, really well. Three years into Goldman he leaves for a private equity firm that buys entire companies, like say PetSmart. This guy is going to be one of a 5 person team deciding whether or not to buy this company and if they do he will be on the board dictating PetSmart’s operational and financial strategy. Oh btw he’s getting paid even more now and he’s only 4-5 years out of school. Someone from UNC Charlotte never even got the interview for the Goldman position and may himself be a cog in the PetSmart wheel who’s fate is in the hands of Goldman guy.

                  Look, I came from a lower class background myself. I consider myself very fortunate to break out. Yes education is a worthy lifelong endeavor but that doesn’t justify paying tens of thousands of dollars for an MBA that doesn’t pay you back especially when said degree is inherently to further ones career. I’m just tired schools selling empty promises and we’ll intentioned people making expensive mistakes. What I described isn’t necessarily fair but that’s how the world works.

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                • Sides

                  That is why the online programs are great. They don’t cost nearly that much money. I definitely didn’t spend 10k especially when you can bring credits from other programs. It is the future of education. Why spend multiple years of your life making no income (likely with loans) when you can make money while improving your skills/education?

                  Btw, not everyone who gets an mba works in finance. The skills translate to all aspects of your personal and professional life.

                  Like

            • Otto

              6) If the Company is paying for part of it.

              Like

      • Sides

        I wouldn’t call it a special circumstance. Some people want to continue their education (career) while working/family. I had one local option (in the UNC network) and that required 2 years full time, 2-3 night classes per week and 1 Saturday a month. I choose an online program through a large state school in NC. I paid 1/3 the price, got the exact same instruction (downloaded the weekly lectures, same textbooks, everything the same and did groupwork with full time, on campus students), and my degree doesn’t say ‘online’ it is the same degree any other student received. Why is that less value than a full time student? I say greater value because I paid much less…

        I don’t think you know what you are talking about.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Charlottedawg

          Because you don’t get your MBA for the education, you get it to 1)gain access to jobs that you otherwise wouldn’t have access to and 2)gain access to the schools network which is exclusive and influential. It’s why in most cases if you can’t go to a top 20 better yet top 10 full time MBA program, it’s probably not worth getting your MBA. (Top programs being: Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, Columbia, Dartmouth, MIT, northwestern, university of Chicago, etc.)

          There’s nothing taught at Harvard business school or any other top business school that can’t be learned online, independently for much less, that is true. The reason a Harvard MBA is worth the 6 figures is 1) Goldman and McKinsey come on campus to fill their associate classes every year and going to a “target” school is effectively the only avenue to extremely lucrative careers in finance and consulting which themselves lead to c suite type roles. These employers only recruit at top full time MBA programs because they know they will fill their interview slots with 25 vetted prestigious candidates by virtue of the fact that HBS is really hard to get into 2)you get access to the hbs alumni network who is already in high and mighty places and your classmates who you’ve spent two years drinking with and taking overseas trips with will eventually be in high and mighty places due to getting those jobs in finance and consulting. once you graduate and move up the corporate ladder then you come back to the banks of the Charles River to recruit from your Alma mater and the whole cycle repeats itself and becomes self reinforcing.

          I haven’t even mentioned the fact that employers also immediately give you the benefit of the doubt at work and in the interview room by virtue of having that prestigious school on your resume.

          These are all doors that an MBA outside of the top 20 full time programs which includes all online programs cannot open. You’re not working in investment banking or private equity if you got an online MBA, you’re just not.

          Or to put it another way since the value of the education of an MBA is neglible at best, it would be foolish to spend more than a dollar on an MBA that doesn’t help you make more money. By that definition almost all online MBAs are a waste of time and money. It’s completely pointless to spend time away from your family and spending ten’s of thousands of dollars to go back to your old job making the same amount of money.

          Online MBA students also suffer from the fact that they are usually, expressly forbidden from their school no less to participate in on campus recruiting. Also the only top 20 MBA program to offer an online degree is UNC chapel Hill which means an online MBA student is most likely by default NOT enrolled at one of the top 20 programs.

          Like

          • Faltering Memory

            I have an exutive mba from GSU. I was one of 3 or 4 out of a class of 50 not employed by major companies like IBM or Coca Cola, plus orther mid-sized forms. The degree itself has been a total waste of money for me although the classroom and study team experiences were satisfying.

            Like

            • Sides

              If you enjoyed the experience and possibly used that education to further your career then it was worth it. Depending on how much you paid…..

              Like

          • Sides

            Aren’t you an elite asshole. Not worth an MBA unless its a top 10 program? Why do any education if it isn’t a top tier program? Why spend money on community colleges? Education at all levels is important and the value is not always for immediate monetary gain.

            Some people aren’t looking to work for a fortune 500 company and don’t care about an ‘extremely lucrative career in finance’. I have never used an alumni network for anything (I’m not interested in people just because of the school they went to) and I sure as hell don’t spend my life ‘working my way up the corporate ladder’ so I can go back to campus and recruit the next crop of assholes to replace me.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Tony Barnfart

            I could see why the 22yr old who rolled straight through undergrad to an MBA may think the value is negligible. Not sure the 35 year old with real life experience feels the same way or prospective employers who, in 2019, also contain more and more people who came from backgrounds like the 35yr old. Maybe that 35 yr old is foreclosed from a move to new York or boston, but there are plenty of boutique money managers and smaller private equity groups in midsize cities that employ all of us plebes.

            The funny thing is when those Bros peter out of the mega-firms and come back to their less glamorous home towns, the folks whose asses they now have to kiss don’t really give a **** about all the resume building they did if they can sniff out that they were a glorified pencil pusher lost in the shuffle at one of the bigger shops.

            Like

    • PDawg30577

      It’s the future of eduction, all right.

      Like

  7. Admiral Sackbar

    This is rumor mill material so take it with some salt, but I had heard the kid was ubering from class to class last year so as to minimize his time on campus during the day. It would seem he has just as much affinity to Columbus, Ohio as he did to Athens. I try to be pro-athlete as much as possible and realize they’re not getting a fair shake, but if those things are true about him I don’t miss him at all.

    Like

  8. Dawg19

    So if a recruit goes on to the Internet and pulls up a school’s website, can that count as an official visit? 🙂

    (I’m kidding…sort of.)

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Got Cowdog

    Anytime I hear about online classes I get a PTSD flashback to 1987 in the Chemistry building auditorium, where I sat with 300 other petrified Freshmen while the Professor drew hieroglyphics on an overhead projector for an hour and a half then went back in his office and locked the door. I failed that class so hard I changed my major so I wouldn’t have to take it again.
    Terrible, just terrible.

    Like

    • chopdawg

      That’s the way it was in ’69. Toughest class I ever had at UGA, Biology 101. Might as well have been online, for all the personal help I got.

      Like

      • Salty Dawg

        I took it in ’71 and it was generally known that it was a class to ‘weed out’ the freshman along with chemistry 101 and English! Good times! lol

        Like

        • Got Cowdog

          I had exempted the first tier of sciences, so I started out with second level classes. I couldn’t have passed that Chemistry class had it been lying on the side of the expressway.

          Like

  10. RangerRuss

    It’s Field’s loss. I treasure the memory of lectures and conversations I had with my professors. Bob Clute, Loch Johnson and Paul Popov. Drinking beer with Prof Chuck Lower at Little Bob’s on Fridays and watching car crashes. Incidentally meeting on morning runs and becoming friendly with great men such as Mike Castronis, CSM Barry Nicora and SGM Hattaway. That’s the sort of education one doesn’t receive online.

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    • Russ

      Amen. I offered to stay home and go to Georgia State to save money and my mother said you learn so much more going away to school outside the classroom. And I agree. The university environment is great.

      Or maybe I was just a PITA as a kid.

      Like

      • Mark

        I am reminded of the father of a high school classmate of mine, who told my friend, before he left for college, “Son, I want you to study hard and make good grades. But… don’t let it interfere with your education. “

        Like

    • Dawg1

      Castronis was a hidden gem, what a fantastic guy. in ’44 he was all SEC as a tackle AND a guard. Crazy!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Wes

      I had Loch Johnson as a professor in my IA PhD program in 2010 and he was, and is, simply fantastic. I still keep in touch with him to this day.

      Like

  11. TimberRidgeDawg

    Not saying that Fields isn’t disconnected from the normal student experience but technology has gotten to the point that the majority of classes can be delivered virtually for most majors and not impact the level of knowledge imparted. Not to mention, you don’t have to use time to travel to and from the classroom that can be used for something else.

    My son has taken online courses from home during the summer and I don’t have to pay for a dorm or meal plan which is pretty nice actually. The loss in remote learning is really in missing the experience of college life and the social interaction and relationships with your classmates and teachers. Online fraternities? You can’t replicate that over the internet but there is some irony in sitting in an athletic dorm and never walking across the campus.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Otto

      Agreed and if I were a college student today I would take a mix just as some students used to take some classes from a school closer to home during the summer.

      I very much enjoyed being in the classroom with some of my Profs even if I didn’t get to know them.

      Like

  12. MDDawg

    Just to share my online education experience:
    I got some credits from the few semesters I attended UGA, plus credits from the Navy nuclear power program, and only needed about 30 more to finish my degree online. The classes which involved writing seemed the easiest to me, although there was a decent amount of time spent reading the textbook, assuming you did that as you were supposed to. The ones that were the most demanding were the math courses. I’m glad I don’t have to do that again.

    If the NCAA and schools want to preserve amateurism (if it ever really existed in the first place), then they’d have to take steps such as raising academic admissions requirements and eligibility requirements for athletes, and reducing the number of hours each week that can be spent on athletics. Then you might be able to seriously call them student-athletes. Otherwise you’ve got a large number of athletes playing at being students.

    Liked by 1 person

    • James Stephenson

      Back in 86, I had already delayed entry in the Army, when I guess the Navy saw my ASVAB scores, they came after me hard to go Nuke. I mean the last guy to call was the Head guy of Navy recruiting for Georgia say he could get me out of the Army delayed entry. I said, dude I do not want to be in a sub. He says we got Nuke Aircraft carriers and I said, what 20, and you have hundreds of subs, you did see my math score right.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Dawg1

        SO, what did you do, end up with David Robinson on a sub!

        Like

      • I had a similar experience. I was already committed to attending UGA. A Navy recruiter saw my scores and begged me to join. I said I’m going to Georgia and took the ASVAB just for the standardized testing experience. He said I could do Navy ROTC at Fech. I told him no way would I make the drive to Atlanta for that multiple times per week. Finally, he asked what he could do to convince me to sign up. I said, “Get me into Annapolis.” He ended the conversation right then.

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  13. Aladawg

    I guess being a college student is a job.

    Like

  14. It is just further evidence he is not committed to anything that doesn’t satisfy him at that very moment. There are lots of broke EX Professional athletes that did the same thing.

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  15. Charlottedawg

    Your experience is obviously the most important factor. We want candidates with the most relevant work experience as well but when elite schools are the primary avenue to elite first jobs which leads to elite second jobs who want that prestigious first job who do you think has the more relevant experience? The guy who went to the elite school or the guy who went to UNC Charlotte?

    Like

  16. Down Island Way

    All that is well and good….anybody here believe Mr. fields is going to tosu to receive an mba or any degree for that matter….anybody, anybody….Bueller

    Like