From Seth Emerson’s Mailbag ($$):
Smart was asked Tuesday night about Georgia’s use of slants, or lack thereof, and here’s what he said, which I’ll quote in full because I thought it was both informative and instructive, but I will bold the parts in particular that stood out to me:
“We’ve been a slant team in the past. The first couple of years here we ran a lot of slants. If you can remember, we ran slants in the spring game, one of the passes that Eric Stokes took from J.J. Holloman went for a Pick-6. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad play, it doesn’t make it one way or another but it is one that we haven’t been extremely successful with. We’ve actually run slants this year; (it’s not that) we haven’t thrown slants. There’s several times we’ve been in empty (no tailback formation) that we’ve had slants attached, but No. 1, you’ve got to have guys who can win on slants, No. 2 you’ve got to feel good about the coverage you’re getting before the slants. Some of what we were doing — and we don’t want to give a slant away as opposed to giving a fade away — has to do with leverage.”
The two bolded parts would point to the notion that they — either the coaches or Fromm or both — just don’t feel good enough about the receivers to call and throw those slants.
Fair enough. My only question is, how easy is it to identify receivers who have the necessary skill set to be reliable in the slant pass game? It’s either that Georgia hasn’t recruited those kind of guys all of a sudden, or Kirby has made a tactical decision that he prefers to emphasize other types of passes.
I’m not trying to be snarky here. I am genuinely curious how they’ve gotten to this point. What little I know about offensive strategy leads me to think a slant pass game is a valid way to attack what defenses have been throwing at Georgia’s offense this year, but Smart is obviously skeptical of that.
Any thoughts on this?
Get The Picture 
Doing it consistently maybe? I’ve seen Blaylock, Cager, and Pickens all run successful man-beater-type routes before, so it’s not like no one can do it. But they either couldn’t do it often, or it wasn’t getting called (the number of sideline routes in the SCar game will remain mystifying to me.)
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I think Robertson should be this guy. But he is either so unreliable with his positioning, hands, or routes that Fromm doesn’t throw to him.
The pass that Fromm threw to Wolf to seal the UF game? They run that route often. Robertson is running a dig route (I think) on that play where he runs across the line of scrimmage, about 5-8 yards past it. Open every time I’ve seen it run. Fromm always throws to the sideline anyway.
This has not always been the case. Almost any pass you can recall Godwin catching was a route in the center of the field.
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JJ was the only receiver who could run a slant successfully and he’s no longer on the team so……
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In the LSU/Bama game Gary Danielson pointed out what a high % of Burrow’s throws are between the hashes. I remember seeing a chart of Fromm’s passes in the SCar game and I think he had 3 or 4 between the hashes (out of 50 attempts) under 20 yards.
Just nuts to me. But I’ve never been in the arena. So there’s that.
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Chaser:
Make it 4 of 51 attempts.
http://secstatcat.com/team/georgia/passer-stats
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For comp, Burrow had
7 out of 39 against Bama
5 out of 24 against Florida
9 out of 42 against Auburn
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Against Auburn Fromm had 1 pass attempt between the hashes under 20 yards out of 28 attempts.
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It is a lot easier to cover guys when you know that about 1/2 the field is off limits to the offense and is not going to be used. We treat the hash marks like the sidelines this year. When we do throw towards the middle, I’m surprised the guys don’t do a toe tap to make sure there “in bounds” before they cross the hash marks into no mans land.
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In that game, they mentioned that Brady’s influence in LSU’s offense involved throwing between 10 and 2 o’clock. The GD exact opposite of what we do.
I pray Coley is canned in 6 weeks.
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I am beginning to buy more into the line of reasoning that the problem isn’t Coley…..
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Coley is only doing the bidding of the HC.
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Except that Coley has been the exact same every place he’s been.
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More about the talent we have imo. Still very young at WR and inexperienced. It is a little tougher than some think to take one over the middle while a LB or safety wants to take your head off. I just don’t see too many Hines Wards on the team…..but they are developing. Can see Blaylock and Pickens developing in time.
The story of our season on offense so far this season. The receivers have been an issue this season, but they are getting better. Low on quality and numbers. Hard to lose 5 and expect to be as good as we were a year ago….short answer, more about talent and matchups.
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That’s exactly right. Lose your top 5 pass catchers in a given year and your options are limited. Seems clear to me that these guys just aren’t world beaters on some routes, and Kirby will only trust them on plays they do really well. It’s unfortunate they haven’t developed enough over the year, though.
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We knew we were losing Godwin. Ridley and Hardman going early wasn’t such a surprise, though I could have seen Ridley staying one more year. Holloman, who was primed to be WR1, was the big shock. If this group had Holloman, along with a healthy Cager, DRob, Pickens, and Blaylock, we’d be just fine, IMO.
My concerns also aren’t alleviated when I look ahead to next year. Pickens and Blaylock should take a step forward (they’re already getting better as this year goes on), but Cager will be gone. We’re likely going to need meaningful contributions from a couple of WRs who aren’t on campus now. And that’s to say nothing of how the passing attack would be affected if Fromm turns pro. It’s not too hard to imagine the 2020 offense as being the 2019 one redux. But here’s to hoping for better things.
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Good points….honestly thinks Fromm is a 4 year guy. He seems to love college. Now if we are lucky enough to win the MNC, he may choose to go….
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If Fromm is a first round pick in the draft, he would be a fool to stay in Athens. If he is projected to be a top 20 pick, he would be an even bigger fool to stay. Based on 2019 numbers, a draft slot in the teens will get him more than a 12.5 million dollar per year contract. Plus getting the fifth year option as a first rounder unless he is really just awful at the next level. And if he can get on the active roster for three games per year for three years, he is vested with a pension for life, health benefits, etc. I know, I know, “Money isn’t everything.” But solidifying your family’s future is worth a lot.
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Don’t know, P. Manning was a projected as a 1st rounder his junior year…he came back. I’m sure that there have been others.
I guess it depends on where you heart is, if he comes back…I certainly would not go as far as calling him a “fool”. It’s just what he wanted to do.
Hope he stays another year..
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Would you stay for another year of seasoning in Coley’s dynamic offense?
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No….for just a chance at a MNC and more seasoned receivers…and more quality.
Football really ain’t a hard game.
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does anybody think Fromm looks like an NFL ready qb right now? I sure don’t, and I love him as our QB. Sure the receivers and play calling haven’t helped. but he doesn’t have great mechanics: for as many clean pockets as he has, he rarely steps into throws. He has that ball flip that has to bug the hell out of NFL types. For all the pre-snap reads he makes.. he can be a bit slow to make a decision after the snap, and he seems to miss a fair amount of reads. and then of course there is the whole over the middle deal.. can he make the throws? could be nit-picky but to be clear i would probably only trade him for 3-4 other guys in CFB right now.
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LOL!!….and they come out.
But gotta ask before I go…which 3 or 4 would you rather have??
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Ok Greg, so we cannot give observational criticism of Jake Fromm? is that the new rule? I admit I am not in the arena, like most here, but help me understand where i was way off base there?
Out of 119 or whatever college QBs, in a thougth experiment you wouldn’t consider trading Jake for a single one? C’mon man. it isn’t as much of a slight as you think it is.
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Heck no, criticize all you want…it’s welcomed as far as I am concerned. It can make some better, especially if it is constructive.
It was just a simple, question….which 3 or 4 would you take (stayed above)??
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Fair enough. Given our scheme isn’t a fit for everyone (Fields, Hurts), I think Burrow, Tua, or Trevor would be the only ones I would trade Jake for. They are all a bit more athletic than Jake, so they can sell the read option more, and also seem to get the ball out a little quicker than him, which might open up more quick hitter routes. I can’t comment on Herbert at Oregon, because I haven’t watched him play much.
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I’m now concerned that we let a stud in John Rhys Plumlee get away. He looks fantastic so far, and those wheels!
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Greg, Fromm doesn’t appear to be anywhere near a first round pick from what I’ve read. He came into the season as a possible first round guy, but he has dropped off significantly. Supposedly his arm strength, foot work, and post snap vision are nowhere near NFL ready.
He could finish on fire and get back in it though.
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In addition to all of that, his deep balls aren’t always very accurate; then there’s his inability to throw on the run and lack of mobility. LOTS to work on.
I think unless we win it all he comes back next year.
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I’m not saying Fromm is above criticism (some of it is certainly warranted) but I’m not sure who I’d take over him since our system isn’t set up to be successful running what these other guys do. Look at Fields. He didn’t suddenly turn into a good QB, they just have a system set up for him to succeed. Same with Burrow at LSU. I think Fromm could have just as much success if we opened the offense up, but I doubt we’ll ever know.
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I would buy that the wrs are the problem if we didn’t have the exact same problems against Texas, LSU and the 2nd half against UAT last year. Everyone is using the same formula as those teams did last year and are enjoying the same success.
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It isn’t that we haven’t recruited guys who can run the route and succeed, it’s that we’ve run into a situation where the position group as a whole is characterized by inexperience. With the exception of Cager and a few other players, we’re all freshmen or players who haven’t really panned out the way they should have (cough, cough, Matt Landers, cough, cough). We’ve got guys who are still developing and the coaches and Jake Fromm clearly believe there are other skill sets where they’re better and they’re trying to stay away from some of the other areas where they aren’t as strong.
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Kinda begs my question — what makes a receiver better at running fades compared to slants?
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Getting hammered over the middle.
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Receivers get hammered all over the field.
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Not like they do over the middle, you should try it sometime.
Different animal….
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So all this is about is taking a blow in a certain area of the field?
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LOL!….yes sir.
That and also having the right personnel to be able to do it.
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I think some of it is. Hard to get really hammered on a fade..plus if the ball zings off of your hands it’s going out of bounds and not up in the middle of the field for a pick.
But still, you have to throw it.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Not necessarily. The leverage is different. Also, making tough catches in tight windows where you may only have a step. It requires tighter timing and sure hands. The ball has to be on you the minute you come out of the break sometimes. They may be better at it now than they were initially, or there may be more trust. Throwing to those WRs in tight spaces was not going well in the SC game. I can easily see a guy with poor leverage get brick hands and popping a few up in the middle of the field.
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No. This is about taking a blow to a certain area of the body.
I believe there’s more to it. Our schedule is back-loaded with five P5 games in November leading up to the SECC. Kirby is looking to protect the positions where we are thin (QB & WR). It’s also why Fromm rarely keeps the ball.
Once the SECC kicks, the restrictions come off.
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No, as clearly outline in many other posts below this one. I get what you are saying, but it is not the sole component. A lot goes into a successful slant route. We have green WRs who get jammed easy. A fade allows them more space to operate. A slant is timing and precision. Our WRs currently, do not inspire that confidence in either the HC or the QB. That was my point, although admittedly, very poorly put.
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That’s a fresh and interesting perspective. Might be true, esp. Fromm.
Saban didn’t employ that strategy with Tua and he’s probably regretting it.
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This…exactly.
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Then would seem to be a prime opportunity to line up Cook or Herrien or Swift in the slot more and have more formations with more than 1 of them on the field at the same time. Especially RPO with a slant option
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Herrien? Swift? Over the middle? Those dudes would get creamed!!1!!!!
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A fade is a safer throw, it is lower risk but lower likelihood of success. A slant is higher risk but also higher likelihood of success. The problem with our fade routes is how poor of a job the receivers have done winning off the LOS, and pressing the DB inside on their stem. It is why you see Jake throwing the ball out of bounds, because the DB has pressed the receiver to the sideline and there is just not room to fit it in.
If you look at LSU’s first TD against Alabama notice that the receiver is covered but is still just at the inside of the numbers allowing Burrow to under throw and letting his WR make a play. Compare that to Pickens fade in the Auburn game (thrown way OOB) or even his TD against Mizzou. He is forced to the edge of the sideline and takes a perfect throw and acrobatic catch to be successful.
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LSU has the room on the sideline because they throw mostly between the hashes. Our WRs are getting pressed to the sideline because the DB knows they’re not going towards the middle of the field. This is why it’s maddening that we don’t throw between the hashes.
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I’ll take a crack at this question. I think a fade route has timing elements that are crucial but it’s also manball; a guy runs up the field and tries to out-physical his defender for the ball. On a slant route; I think the receiver has to create his own separation through his body language, using his hands, feet and eyes to put the defender on his heels.
I remember Tony Ball getting a lot of praise back when he coached this position group as he was getting good production from receivers who didn’t quite possess next-level talent (Michael Bennett comes to mind) so I wonder if this is inexperience or an issue of coaching.
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Seems obvious that Kirby wants to do it his way. Our pass offense is occasionally creative, decreasingly successful, and out of balance with what we need to do to challenge top ranked teams. Maybe it was just me but most of the throws by Fromm last week in the first 30 minutes seemed to lack urgency and pace. Looked like he was trying to float it out there. With the tight coverage on our wideouts, the speed of the throw needs to be crisp. He changed that as the game went on. I have been screaming play action since the first game. And been mostly disappointed. There is nothing sissy about play action or slants. There is a lot of space between the line backers moving uo on the run and the safeties. Have no idea why we are not using that space to our advantage.
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Wouldn’t the sell of a block or crack back on play action be another way to help these young receivers get off press coverage ?
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As mystifying to me as not throwing more play-action passes.
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Depends on how the corners are lining up. If they are playing tight with inside leverage, the slant really isn’t there. If they were playing a lot of zone, off the line, eyes in the backfield, the slant should be easy pickings.
That’s what Kirby is saying: “We take that slant away playing with leverage” (One reason I think we have a chance vs LSU is I think we can deny them the middle of the field, but I digress.)
I think Kirby wants to RTDB and influence the LB’s and safeties to think run first and attack one on one match ups on the outside. In other words, when we throw it, we want an advantage. So we’re not designed to be in 3rd and long. We want to stay “on schedule” as they say. 2nd and 5, 3rd and short etc… We want to throw it 18 times and his 14 for big yards and run it 40 times. When we’re 15 of 30 it’s not who we want to be.
I think the reason the offense is struggling is that Fromm doesn’t see any open guys a lot of times because they aren’t getting separation and doesn’t trust his guys to be where they’re are supposed to be. He trusts cager and that’s about it. Cager keeps going down and the offense grinds to a halt.
Fromm also has too long a memory. A pick. A drop. A bad pass. Whatever it’s just seems to snowball. When he’s rolling it’s beautiful. Once he starts worrying about things, it can get ugly.
But with that OL and that defense why would you put the ball at hazard?
If we’re going to get this thing done it’s going to be 1992 Alabama or 2000 Baltimore ravens style. And that’s fine with me. The 1980 team was not our best team, but they won the damn trophy. That’s what matters to me. Let’s go get it.
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Do you remember how many passes Buck completed in the 1980 NC and what quarter the first completion was?
I truly believe it`s Kirby limiting the play calling. Chaney was a longtime OC and i think was given more room to operate. Watching Fromm I think he has regressed and is not getting the best possible (the reserve fund sure can afford it) QB coaching.
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Not like this is Coley’s first rodeo.
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I know Kirby acknowledged throwing slants in the past, but I also thought some Auburn or Florida DB tried to throw shade at Fromm his freshman year by saying all he threw were slants and screens. I’m I mistaken or can someone else recall that?
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That’s where the header comes from. A UF safety said that a couple of years ago.
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What about the play action to set up a post or a TE sitting down over the middle?
Oh to dream
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If these guys can run 10 yard outs, comebacks and back shoulder routes they can run 5 yard slants. Good grief! I agree it’s more about the coverage, though.
We gave Auburn the slants and middle of the field all gameplay long. Teams have just been jamming our WRs at the line all year and they’ve mostly been unable to beat that. Good coaching and play calling CAN take advantage of that. Mostly doing the same damn thing over and over obviously won’t. But then I don’t have 3 SEC East banners.
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That’s what I’m guessing — it’s a separation issue.
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As I wrote above, can 1 cure for separation not be play action, and the things the receiver does to sell run for a second or two ? Seems like a good way to get away from a pressing corner is to make him want to get away from you by showing run–play action.
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Lol. At the beginning of the season we were screaming, “Where are the explosive plays, throwing downfield?” Now that we are doing that, “where are all the short easy throws?”
Who really cares, as long as the defense is elite.
“If we score, we might win. If they never score, we can’t lose.”
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The defense was elite against South Carolina.
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SC in my opinion was the time to run some quick slants. I have posted about this and still believe it is something that could spark success on offense but is far from the end all fix all.
Quick slants depend on timing which comes with practice as it is less dependent on separation and more on body position. If ti isn’t successful again IMO it is due to lack of emphasis in practice.
UGA has seemed to run more trips and stack WRs sets which also gets the WRs out of immediate man coverage where the DB get to lock up and jam the WR.
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Good point. I heard a commentator say during one of LSU’s games earlier this season that Brady had made Burrow throw literally thousands of passes to his receivers over the summer.
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I don’t want to be a hurry up 50 passes a game team. However, UGA can run plays which are called as a pass 1st and the passing game needs to be there for instances like SC.
UGA;s ground control/clock control offense which wins time of possession by holding on to the ball for fewer but longer possessions is a major factor in UGA’s D ranking very highly.
The coaching stuff must learn to improve the passing attack to get over the hump, and I am not buying the narrative it is all because young WRs. UGA isn’t a Vandy or Wake Forest which recruits lower rated talent which must improve to be compete.
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I think they were IMO. They were only accountable for 13 of those 20 points (really 10 if you don’t count OT). Final should have been 17-10.
Which brings me back to Erk’s quote.
Thats just my opinion though. And we all know what they say about opinions.
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The explosive plays haven’t really shown up much…79th in the country in 40+ yd plays, 93rd in 50+ yarders. (Even shorter “big” plays are lacking — 89th in 20+ yard plays.)
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My thought is that a slant is almost a pure pass route, e.g. the receivers would take too long to execute the route if they tried to combine a blocking technique with it. With Kirby’s heavy reliance on receivers blocking on everything, slants probably don’t fit the over-all strategy very well.
I can guaranty that Robertson ran the hell out of slats when he was at Cal.
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Agreed I’d love to see him in at slot WR run a quick slant with it being Fromm’s 1st read, yes it is a short route but as a run the ball team, 4 yards is on schedule.
I’d also like the see Robertson run a slant that if he doesn’t get the 1st read it goes to a crossing pattern that Fromm can come back to as later in the progressions.
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How are they going to get better at running slants which I assume includes learning how to separate, learning how to run the route the best for execution, if they don’t RUN THE SLANT AT ALL????
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Has absolutely nothing to do with WR talent.
100% to do with Kirbs philosophy and throws Fromm is comfortable making.
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Whatever the reason, I suspect (based on what we’ve seen all season) is that during practices when slant routes are practiced our defense tears them up, so Kirby’s like….. “Okay, maybe not so much.”
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Is it possible that our massive OL hinders the throwing lanes for slants. Slants are typically thrown to the slot receivers. The throwing lane for this route is going to be through the guard/tackle space.
Jake is listed as 6’2
Left lane would be through Thomas at 6’5 and Kindley at 6’4
Right lane would be through Mays/Cleveland at 6’6 and Wilson at 6’7
Not to mention the girth of these monsters.
Perhaps they hinder the ability to through a quick, flat pass. If you float the pass on that route, it is likely to be picked.
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This sounds like one of the more likely reasons to me.
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The 2018 receivers have jumped some of the earlier recruiting classes at the position. That doesn’t help.
To me, the bigger question(s) is why don’t we use play action more? Or, if we are going to run a slant, why not do it off an RPO? I guess the RPO slant has the same issues as Coach mentioned in the article.
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Played WR in HS only 19 years ago (shit I’m old), so I know a little about the position. I watch all the games from 50 yrd line upper deck so have a good view of the entire field/play. I can tell you that the route running of all WRs not named Cager has been poor. There is too much rounding of routes and lack of crisp change in direction. A slant is a pure timing route requiring 3 steps out of the break with an outside plant foot to create quick change of direction and thus separation. It just not there, Pickens and Blaylock will be great with time, but it is challenging enough to get Pickens to line up correctly at this point (see Missouri, see SC on last drive of 4th quarter). I am not surprised the playbook is limited for the freshman, but have been disappointed in the lack of production from Simmons and Landers. I am sure those guys work hard and are great teammates, but we need them to step up. Hoping Kearis Jackson can get into a groove, D-Rob seems to be good on the drag route but can’t remember seeing him run a slant at all. I think at this point we are what we are, and don’t see it changing much. I do know that Jake Fromm will be such a better future QB because of his experience this year. He is already used to throwing into tight windows.
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This is what I was trying to get at, but stated much clearer!
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If route running is the issue, how are we the only coaching staff that can’t teach freshman 5 star receivers how to run routes? Also it’s not like wide receiver is a position that needs a ton of experience in order to be effective as evidenced by Alabama and Clemson winning national championships with freshman receivers or even for UGA, AJ green, Malcolm Mitchell, Chris Conley, Michael Bennett were all productive as freshman. I’m not saying you’re wrong, this just sounds like flimsy excuses from the coaching staff.
On a separate note, Tyler Simmons and Matt Landers shouldn’t see the field again ever, especially Simmons. Every time the ball touches his hands something bad happens for UGA. He’s the offensive equivalent of Bryan Evans.
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Not an excuse for coaching, Cortez Hankton has a lot to prove in the development of WR. But also schematically the Florida game is the only game I can point to and say, wow they schemed up a great play to get guys open. It’s a conundrum offensively this season for sure
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The thought that comes to mind on quick slants, is that body-shielding technique really comes into play. That and quick eyes and hands.
The teams that make their living on slants seem not to have that high of a success percentage rate. The teams that utilize the slant on 3rd/4th and short, mixed with other options, seem to make the slant look like something you COULD make a living on.
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Having stacked boxes so often jams up the middle of the field where slants have to go. Tougher with an extra guy in the box. Then add the height issue of opposing DL personnel to the danger of tips. We may have to go deeper down the seam since Jake isn’t 6’6″ with a corresponding wingspan. I refuse to believe we don’t enough guys with speed to get a step or two away from the defender near the line. We need to find ways to get the ball to Cook, this might be one.
Also, throws over the middle don’t just cause big hits on the receiver, they often result in INTs on overthrows/tips. Want to see more over the middle but it isn’t because Fromm can throw it, he is/was legendary regarding that 2 years ago. Like sex and bicycle riding, you don’t forget how to do that.
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Our receivers run perfectly good slant routes when blocking.
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This is just more coach speak. We keep having the same issues and instead of blaming the capabilities of the 1 we blame the capabilities of the many. Watching Jake throw against air during warmups he often hit his receivers who were crossing him on their route.. behind. I think he had 1 throw that was in stride. If you are running slants.. where you are crossing the qb.. you don’t want the ball behind. That is a pic. For his deep routes in air.. he overthrew one and most of the others slowed down to catch the ball.
We need better OC play calls to take advantage of what Fromm can do. Line Fromm under center. More PA plays since everyone is keying on the run. Incorporate more hurry up.
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Slant passes are inherently riskier. Receiver doinks one off his hands or face, ball pops right up to 3-4 waiting DB’s or LB’s for the INT. Jake doesn’t throw anything to the middle of the field because risk adverse Kirby has coached it out of him.
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Fromm isn’t the tallest QB…maybe having 6’6″ guards and a 6’4″ center isn’t the best for throwing over the middle? But then again, Tua is 6’1″, so my point may be moot.
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The lines for Aaron Murray weren’t exactly tiny, and despite being shorter than Jake, he did OK.
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I love Fromm and hope he stays. That said, he has regressed since that brilliant freshman year. Maybe like a pitcher in MLB not looking as good the 2nd time through the league, as they have figured him out. Has a lot of passes batted down also.
The slant pass seems to work well AGAINST us.
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I put this up last week. Dial up to the 47:45 mark. There’s no reason we can’t run these now. If Fromm could do it as a true freshman, he should be better at it now. I know Hardman makes a difference, but this is a pretty standard route for a college WR.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EA2ZDEs2JT4
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If those YOUNG receivers haven’t learned how to run routes by now they won’t ever learn. How many times do you think Robertson wakes up at night having a nightmare about choosing Georgia? It is probably a continuing occurrence!!!!!
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Dial this one up to 20.
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