Fromm’d

Now that I’ve gotten the morning snark out of the way — a hearty thanks to the usual suspects, by the way — let’s ask the question seriously:  what does Jake Fromm’s selection in the fifth round of the NFL draft tell us about the Georgia football program?

First off, it doesn’t tell us much about Kirby Smart’s talent evaluation skills.  It’s not as if he thought he was keeping a future first round draft pick when he made choices leading to Eason and Fields leaving the program.  This doesn’t sound like a coach operating under any delusions about what he had in Fromm:

Still, Smart said he had an idea Fromm wouldn’t be one of the first quarterbacks taken in the 2020 NFL Draft.

“I thought all along he’d be a third or a fourth-round pick, and he lasted to the fifth,” Smart said.

That’s not post hoc ass covering, either, according to Bruce Feldman ($$).

There were some way-too-early mock drafts touting Fromm as a top-10 or top-20 pick, but folks I trust around Georgia had been telling me those projections were laughable given Fromm’s limited arm strength and athleticism.

So, Smart knew Fromm’s limitations and still let two five-star kids with bigger arms (and in Fields’ case, better feet) escape Athens.  You know what?  I get the gloating from certain quarters…

… even if I don’t agree with how that’s framed.  But think about Smart’s decision at the time, not through Saturday’s prism.  Jake Fromm finished the 2018 season ranked fifth in passer rating — not in the conference, but nationally.  To kick Fromm to the curb after a season like that, no matter how tempting Fields’ physical talents were, would have been extremely questionable.

Much the same could be said about Eason’s departure.  Fromm takes over in the opener, leads the team to big wins at Notre Dame, the SECCG and the Rose Bowl, comes within a whisker of winning a natty as a true freshman quarterback and Smart is supposed to jettison that simply because Eason has a bigger arm?

Kirby isn’t coaching to win an NFL combine.  He’s trying to win college football games and in his mind, Fromm was the best option to do so.  Would I like to have Fields in a Georgia uniform this season?  Shit, yeah.  But that doesn’t mean I’m ripping Smart for sticking with Fromm last year.

Which is not to say that Smart is entirely blameless in the choices he made before last season.  It’s just that the quarterback decision wasn’t what hurt the Dawgs so much as it was Kirby’s emphasis on recruiting, or, more particularly, recruiters.  Take it away, Seth Emerson ($$):

This year, as well as after the great 2017 season, Georgia had three offensive players taken in the top 35. The quarterback was the same guy in both season. And yet we all know how much more successful that 2017 offense was that issuing statistical reminders seems unnecessary. (Just in case: The 2017 offense ranked 12th nationally in yards per play, compared to 46th this year.)

That bolsters the argument that it mainly came down to coaching.

Seth “perhaps” that, but I’m not so unsure.  Maybe putting the thumb on the scale in favor of South Florida recruiting instead of recognizing the value of a good position coach wasn’t such a hot choice.

That being said, if that’s the worst thing I can throw Smart’s way in the wake of the start of Jake Fromm’s NFL career, this offseason gives me plenty of hope a lesson has been learned.  Emerson, again:

The revisionist Fromm vs. Fields debate is not only a tired one but irrelevant at this point. What matters for Georgia is the future, and where the critics have merit is that Georgia’s offense was too antiquated for the times, and where Hurts was drafted is evidence of that.

But the evidence also points to Smart having gotten the message, given the signing of Newman and the hiring of Todd Monken.

It may not be conclusive proof, but I’m willing to see what happens this season before I look to throw Smart under a bus, Fromm or no Fromm.

95 Comments

Filed under Georgia Football

95 responses to “Fromm’d

  1. josh hancher

    The Fromm is a fifth round pick so Kirby is a bad coach is as about as lame as any post draft talk as there is.

    Go look at the 2017 QB signing classes. Fromm and Tua are the only ones gonna get drafted

    Kirby and Fromm won a lot of games. If Kirby benches Fields for Fromm – it’s gonna do long term damage recruiting-
    For certain

    No one talking that Mullen had 7 nfl players and won, what with them?

    Like

    • The only way the “Fromm is a fifth round pick so Kirby is a bad coach” narrative makes sense is if Smart wanted Fields to leave the program.

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      • josh hancher

        That 17 QB class is full of big time recruits going to big time schools that won’t and didn’t matter this season or last- this draft or next draft

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    • Josh, I think you’re missing one kid in that 2017 class that’s going to get a long look over the next 2 years … Davis Mills. He’s the reason T.J. Costello is in Starkville now.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jeff Sanchez

      Dabo benched his veteran star QB for the hotshot freshman. Worked out pretty well, I’d say.

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      • Silver Creek Dawg

        What Dabo asks of his QB and what Kirby asks of his are very different IMO.

        Liked by 1 person

      • That “veteran star QB”‘s passer ratings: 131.73 in 2017 and 146.90 in 2018.

        Jake Fromm’s: 160.09 in 2017 and 171.22 in 2018.

        Liked by 6 people

      • josh hancher

        Kelly Bryant was 10 TDs and 8 Int v P5. Jake 2017 was 24-6 as freshman and threw 30 TDs and 6 picks in 2018.

        And Jake beat out 5 star in 17 and Kirby gave job to freshman over veteran.

        If you wanna tell me that Kirby and his system can’t compete in today’s CFB because he chose Fromm over true freshman – I’m gonna push back.

        Fromm won his Semi Final as a Freshman.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Josh, you have to remember according to the revisionist history that has been rampant over the last 6 months is that Jake Fromm sucked as a freshman and his surrounding cast is the only reason we ever won a game in his 3 years as a starting college QB.

          Liked by 1 person

          • josh hancher

            This crap has got me so ticked off. I’ve got Thamel on their pod saying he’s not a gambler BUT HE WROTE A SUNDAY COLUMN COMPARING KIRBY TO A BAD POKER PLAYER.

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            • Derek

              If he’s referring to the fake punt vs. bama or the fake fg vs. lsu, I’d have a hard time arguing. Thats shoving all in with seven deuce off.

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              • josh hancher

                He wouldn’t understand the analogy – as faculty correct as it is.

                I’ll be the last one to rip a columnist -except Schultz- for being a perfect mix of arrogant and ignorant writing click bait – but an article written from South Boston Condo about a QB decision made by a coach in Athens Ga – who can’t “develop a QB” in his FOUR YEAR TENURE seems a little ignorant and arrogant

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      • Bulldog Joe

        Easy decision for Swinney. Bryant does not have half the talent of Fromm.

        Dabo learned his lesson the year he started Cole Stoudt in front of Deshaun Watson. Yes, he actually did that.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Dawg1

          In all fairness to Dabo, Watson played essentially 50%+ of the 2 others after the opener on the road and was the starter by game 4.

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  2. Bulldog Joe

    None of Smart’s defensive players were taken until the very last pick.

    What does that tell us about his talent evaluation skills on defense? 😉

    (Sorry, I haven’t got the morning snark out of the way, yet.)

    Liked by 1 person

    • junkyardawg41

      I think some of your snark is justified. If you take a look at what remains of the 2017 class, you are going to be a little underwhelmed for a top 10 class.

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    • W Cobb Dawg

      I think Kirby’s done a terrific job of evaluating players. We got maximum production out of players like JR Reed, Tae Crowder, Tyler Clark and David Marshall. Maybe they aren’t up to nfl standards, but I’d take any of them back in a NY minute. Kirby has his faults, but evaluating talent isn’t one of them.

      By the way, 3-star Kindley was a mid-round pick, although he was on offense of course.

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    • Normaltown Mike

      Tae was signed in 15 as a RB or WR as I recall.

      Funny enough, I was eating downtown with the wife in the winter/spring of 15 when Brian Schottenheimer was hosting Tae and his family on a recruiting visit. Tae was very slight of build at that time.

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  3. Great post, Senator. You summarized well what I’ve been trying to say to those who have downright dragged Jake Fromm through the mud for the last 6 months. Fromm did nothing in the previous 2 years to indicate that either QB who left deserved to start over him. After being a Freshman All-American, he improved his performance in the face of perhaps the best or 2nd best QB prospect to ever step foot in Athens. Fromm had a stranglehold on the starting job in August 2018. When Fields could have had his chance in the Sugar Bowl, he had already decided to transfer (I still don’t think Kirby should have allowed Fields to attend and probably learned a valuable lesson for this year).

    Did Jake regress this year? Yes, after the South Carolina game. Why did that happen? Coaching? Scheme? Receivers? Fundamentals? Confidence? The answer is all of the above.

    Why did Jake leave? We’ll never know. Bad advice? The girlfriend? Tired of being dragged through the mud by the armchair QB coaches around Georgia? Nothing left to prove? Probably, a little yes to all of it.

    I appreciate what Jake Fromm did in Athens the last 3 years. An SEC title. A Rose Bowl championship (that final game-tying drive and his block on Sony’s run are legendary) and a Sugar Bowl championship. 3 SEC East championships. 3-0 vs. the Handbags. 3-1 vs. the Barn. 3-0 vs. the Nerds. 3-0 vs. the Hillbillies. 2-0 vs. Notre Dame.

    Jake Fromm leaves some damn big shoes to fill in Athens, Georgia. Godspeed, Jake. The Dawg Nation looks forward to thanking you on Dooley Field at Sanford Stadium soon.

    Liked by 6 people

  4. The other Doug

    Starting to look like Fields realized Fromm was likely to return for his senior season and made a business decision. Fields has said he didn’t want to leave and loved it at UGA. Smart wanted him so bad he let him continue to practice even though he was leaving.

    What was Kirby to do? Bench Fromm for Fields? Fromm ceiling was too low for the NFL, but it was high enough for 2 NCGs.

    The bigger question to me is what did Smart learn from the 2019 season and what promises/advice did he give Fromm about the 2020 season? There is no way Smart goes into the 2020 season with all that talent on the offense and is OK with an offense as bad as UGA’s.

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  5. DawgByte

    Hindsight being 20/20 and all, BUT the Fields/Fromm debacle will be a stain on Jim Chaney and Kirby Smart’s record for a long time. All you have to do is look at what Ohio St. did with Fields in year 1 to know Georgia’s offense wasn’t designed to put Fields in a position to shine, begging the question of why Justin committed to Georgia in the first place. The inexplicable Chaney rotations further aggravated the situation and hurt the development of both QBs.

    It’s all water under the bridge now and I wish Jake all the best in the future. Moving forward Kirby must allow Todd Monken to transform this offense, because there’s no reason with with talent present to have the number of stalled drives inside our opponents 35 yard line, as we did in 2019.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Normaltown Mike

      you hafta also figure that Fields thought he could thrive in the system at Georgia. Calling it what it is…he looked awful here in 18, and the fact that Ryan Day made him into a star says much about Day and quite a bit about our play calling/scheme/coaching on O.

      The best that can come from this (IMHO) is Kirby recognized the limitations on the ‘man ball” O that he finds so attractive.

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  6. junkyardawg41

    “Maybe putting the thumb on the scale in favor of South Florida recruiting instead of recognizing the value of a good position coach wasn’t such a hot choice.”
    I truely think this can’t be emphasized enough. I don’t think it is measurable the damage Coley did. I get that players leave early for the draft. I believe all of Bama’s underclassmen got drafted in the 1st 3 rounds.

    From ESPN LAST year, ““The Bulldogs had four offensive skill players declare as underclassmen, including their top three pass-catchers, wideouts Riley Ridley and Mecole Hardman and tight end Isaac Nauta,” ESPN’s Adam Rittenberg wrote. “None is rated among Kiper’s top prospects at their respective positions. Would they have left if Georgia passed the ball more? We’ll never know.” https://www.dawgnation.com/football/georgia-football-2019-nfl-draft-juniors

    Was that a result of Coley? Probably not the primary but I think it certainly is a factor that can’t be discounted. Take a look at the defensive side of the ball and outside of Thompson, how many defenders have declared early for the draft under Smart that weren’t selected in the top 3 rounds.

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    • Classic City Canine

      When those receivers left early, I took it as a vote of no confidence in Kirby’s offense. Hopefully that is corrected this year.

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      • Derek

        If Mecole, Ridley and Nauta had bloated stats as juniors they definitely would not have gone to the NFL.

        If there is a golden rule to going early its this: the higher you’ll be taken, the more reason there is to stay in college.

        You nailed it!

        If pickens gets 100 catches this year, he’ll commit to playing his fourth year before his third even starts.

        The crazy thing is that Elijah left early because Kirby wasn’t committed to running the ball.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Dawg1

          I don’t think they are saying that obviously.

          Players need touches. They don’t need 40 yard bombs every play, but they need touches, even just WR screens. Dabo keeps a tick sheet for each player to get touches. That keeps them happy, and isn’t exactly high risk passing (or embarrassing the other team) when in the lead.

          Although, this year, we were never behind in 7 of the last 8 games after USC; I could see it as very tempting to get 3-4 yards min., every 1st and 2nd down on the ground.

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  7. RangerRuss

    Winning the NC is greatly enhanced when 4th year starters are playing that 15th game. That was the advantage LSU had this year, Clemson had last year and might’ve put the Dawgs over the top had Fromm been a more experienced and better QB in ’17. Not blaming Fromm for the loss. But there it is.

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  8. 79Dawg

    Judging someone’s college career by where they get drafted in the NFL – a whole new level of Dawg-grading…

    Liked by 2 people

  9. tbia

    There was never a day that Fields was at Georgia that he was a better quarterback than Fromm. Would I have liked to have seen Fields go thru spring of 19 and see where things stood? Damn right I would.

    We all saw the Fields talent, but we also all saw the problems Fields had that year tucking too soon, not going thru progressions, etc.

    I also believe Coley was better as an OC than we give him credit for, but WAY worse as a quarterback coach.

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    • Coley was the QB coach in 2018 when Fromm was 5th in the country in passing efficiency. Chaney was coaching TEs in addition to his co-OC responsibilities. Chaney coached Fromm & Eason in 2017.

      Coley’s QB coaching seemed to take a step back when he was thrust into the spotlight of designing the game plan, calling plays, and coaching the most important position on the field.

      Liked by 1 person

      • The Dawg abides

        There was definitely a whole lot of change offensively from ‘18 to ‘19. The combination of Chaney, Coley, and Jay Johnson was much better at quarterback coaching and running the offense. Even losing grad assistant Jesse Stone hurt some. He was the guy on the sideline that always worked with Jake while the defense was on the field. This year, all Jake and the offense had was Coley and Shawn Watson. It’s plausible to believe that if Chaney hadn’t left for UT so late in the cycle, Johnson might have been promoted to co-OC and qb coach. But by that point he was already in Boulder with Mel.

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  10. Granthams replacement

    Fields was no where near Fromm in 2018. Physically Fields was superior but was at least a half a second behind in making reads. Fields left and I believe several things happened- 1) Fields was humbled and worked hard to improve. 2) Better coaching 3) better offensive scheme fit. 4) much better talent at WR. If Fromm was at OSU how much better would his 2019 numbers look? How would Fields lmumbers look in UGA’s 2019 offense?

    After the LSU game, when the Fromm/Fields debate was at the peak, Fromm played well the rest of the season. Kirby made the correct choice in going with Fromm.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Dawg19

      Fields was unable to beat Clemson with all that talent around him at Ohio State. Clemson then went on to get pounded by LSU. If Fields couldn’t get it done with the Buckeyes, there’s no way he was going to make a difference playing for Georgia against LSU.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Bulldog Joe

        Fields was about 80% in Clemson game with a knee injury.

        I agree Fields would not have made much difference vs. LSU. Georgia had already neutered itself with poor coaching decisions the week leading up to and including the Georgia Tech game.

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        • Otto

          Fields was very lucky not to have a few more INTs.against Clemson.

          I’d rather have Fromm with a better OC and WRs coach. Fields wouldn’t have had more completions with the drops and covered WRs UGA had but he would likely have more INTs. He makes bad decisions when faced with a top tier pass rush.

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    • Bulldog Joe

      Agree. Ohio State’s offensive scheme is closer to what Fields (and most recruits) run in high school. It’s simpler, quicker, with fewer reads and the freedom to run (a true zone read) and improvise when necessary. Aside from New England, most of the successful NFL teams are running it now.

      Like Georgia, they will go under center with a big lead. Emphasis is on big, as Day is an offensive coach not anchored to protecting his defense by running clock.

      It’s easy to see why Fields was successful there until he got hurt. Day will be tested this year to not fall into the Heisman hype and use Fields more efficiently.

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  11. Bright Idea

    Will the Fromm/ Fields revisionist history replace the Richt discussion among Georgia fans for the next five years? It’s sure starting to look like it.

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  12. Mayor

    Jake Fromm never should have left school early. Period. I still am convinced that Jake is a really good college QB who would have contended for a Heisman and UGA would have contended for a national championship in 2020 if he had stayed in Athens. At minimum he would have become the QB with the most wins in Georgia football history. Instead, people on this blog and many others are trashing him and his record. Pretty pathetic.

    Liked by 1 person

    • RangerRuss

      That’s what I was alluding to in the 8:51 post. A few key seniors returning, Fromm in 2020, provide the stability and leadership to give the Dawgs the edge in clutch situations. I’m so weary of ‘what if’ and ‘might’ve been’ the last forty years. Who is giving these young men such bad advice?

      Liked by 1 person

      • The other Doug

        I gotta ask…

        Do you think a few key seniors returning would have made UGA competitive against LSU?

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        • RangerRuss

          Certainly Mecole, Ridley and Nauta returning would’ve made the Dawgs more competitive. Ridley and Nauta could’ve improved their NFL situation. All damn speculation and maybe though.

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        • Mayor

          I do think so, yes. But more importantly better position coaching at WR and QB plus better game planning would definitely made that happen. Kirby is trying to fix at least part this year. It disturbs me that we still have the same WR coach though.

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    • The other Doug

      What would he have fixed in 2020 that would raise him in the draft? I assume his hands aren’t growing and he has been trying to improve his technique for years. Also, if you say 2018 he was awesome, then why didn’t NFL scouts say the same?

      Next, what makes you think Fromm would be able to beat press man coverage in 2020? He completed 48% of his passes against GT….

      Jake is a DGD, but we saw his ceiling in 2019.

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      • Jake is a DGD, but we saw his Coley’s ceiling in 2019.

        FIFY.

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      • mp

        I don’t think that makes sense as we saw him better in late 2017 and 2018. Fromm was better then, but Coley killed any chances for growth.

        I think Fromm decided that he would be no better off with an extra year with Coley or rolling the dice with a new OC. Tough choice, but if there’s no CFB season at least he’s getting paid.

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        • spur21

          Fromm likely knew the OL would be all new in 2020.

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          • Rocketdawg

            This such a lazy narrative. There will be one new starter on the O Line in 2020. Salyer (LT or RT), Schaffer (LG), Hill (C), Cleveland (RG), have all started or played significant snaps the last 2 years. The Oline in 2020 won’t be a problem.

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      • Rocketdawg

        Go back and watch 2018 games (most of them are on YouTube) and tell me if Jake is the same QB in 2019 that he was in 2018? Hint: the answer is no and it’s not just because of different receivers

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        • The other Doug

          I agree, but I think the difference between 2018 and 2019 was the defensive scheme he faced. Go back and watch the second half of the Auburn game for example. The offense was completely shutdown except for one drive. UGA had once again leaned on manball, and it was no longer working. If my quick research is right, outside of that one drive Fromm completed 2 passes for 1 yard on the other 5 drives.

          I don’t want to ignore Coley in this because obviously he couldn’t call something that worked when the team needed a first down. Also, the NFL seems to think the OL, RB, and maybe the TE were elite, so I think there was enough talent to get a first down. Fromm isn’t the QB to pass to victory.

          btw, when you go back and watch the 2018 season, the offense in the LSU game had a lot of the same issues as the 2019 offense.

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          • Rocketdawg

            You are right on that. When we played teams that sold out to stop the run and had CB’s to play tight man on our WR then you effectively shut our offense down (to be fair you shut pretty much any offense down). In 2017 and 2018 only a few defenses we faced could even think of playing like that. 2017 we had two NFL backs that could run in 8 man boxes and gain positive yards, in 2018 we had three NFL receivers who could get separation from single coverage and get open. In 2019 we had neither of these. Swift is a great RB but Herrian, Zeus, Cook, and Macintosh were not on the same level as Sony and Nick. Heck even Holyfield last year was the hammer” back that could get tough yardage in a stacked box. With the lack of talent/experience at WR even the average CB’s could play man coverage which allowed almost everyone we played to shut down our offense. The 2019 season looks a lot different with a healty Cager and JJ Holloman on the field along with Pickens and Blaylock.

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            • Dawgflan

              Good stuff, RocketDawg. IFromm always had his strengths and weaknesses, but without several elite WRs/RBs that he could lean on as a supporting cast, opposing DCs were able to defend the strengths (handoffs, quick reads, and throws to the boundaries) and expose his weaknesses. And yes, the weakness of Coley’s overall offensive game plan. There’s enough blame to go around.

              Fromm is a smart, hard-working QB, so showed off the charts efficiency with his decision making when there were clear mismatches. He still had his moments making absolute elite throws in 2019 (especially against lower competition) and he had his moments making mistakes in 2018/17, but it’s a game of percentages.

              2019 Jake Fromm is the real/same Jake Fromm as ever. When he trusts his skill position to completely dominate, we knows how to exploit mismatches. He’s a great reader of defenses, excellent team player, good steward of elite supporting talent, and a DGD that fought through some great and challenging moments. But there’s no shame in saying that he’s not a fundamentally elite QB talent himself.

              Would he have been drafted higher in a more QB-friendly system? Maybe, maybe not. Jake Fromm could have posted Colt Brennan stats in college with the right OC/scheme, and still had a Colt Brennan NFL draft/career.

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    • Butler Reynolds

      I think leaving was the right call. Another year at UGA wasn’t going to make him that much better in the NFL. Besides, he’s still going to get a nicer paycheck than most everyone on this blog. You know that he is going to learn everything he can. Who knows what his aspirations are, but if he becomes a coach one day, well, the good ones make a pretty solid paycheck too. No reason to hang around Athens too long like I did!! 🙂

      Like

  13. DawgPhan

    Fields is clearly a better player than Fromm. There isnt anyone in the business that would take Fromm over Fields.

    Did Smart have his “I should have never redshirted Knowshon” moment? Probably but this is likely a few times worse than that.

    You can’t let the 2 highest rated players to ever sign at UGA to just walk away.

    Smart and Co. did everything they could to run Fields off in 2018. It was obvious that they didnt have a plan for keeping him around other than the transfer rules forcing him to stay.

    Smart has one of the top defenses in college football coming back and could be paring it with a Heisman level QB, but instead he will run the old Wake QB out there and hope it works.

    You only get some many chances and Smart likely blew at least one of them because he was stubborn.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Classic City Canine

    Justin wasn’t going to beat out Fromm in 2018. The real decision was between Eason and Fromm in 2017. Impossible to know if Kirby made the right decision, but picking Fromm wiped out any chance of a succession plan that would have Fields as our QB1. The real lesson from Fields/Fromm is that you’re running the wrong offense if a guy like Fields comes in and isn’t immediately successful.

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    • Derek

      Its pretty unlikely that Fields arrives at all if Eason had remained as the starter.

      I’ve often wondered whether Fields insisted on running the same offense as Fromm OR if no alternative was presented. The former is somewhat understandable, the latter would be malpractice.

      I never got why Fields wasn’t the short yardage, rz option similar to what Meyer did with Tebow as a frosh.

      Liked by 2 people

  15. W Cobb Dawg

    So endeth Kirby’s 2019 offensive disaster. An excellent college QB in Fromm is gone, and a fine WR coach/recruiter in Coley is gone. Both were tasked to do things they simply weren’t capable of. Neither was given sufficient help.

    Kirby is an excellent defensive coach and excellent at managing the roster. But he’s severely handicapped when it comes to offense. He landed on his feet with the additions of Luke, Monken and Faulkner. Now he needs to get out of the way and let those offensive specialists do their jobs.

    Liked by 1 person

    • But he’s severely handicapped when it comes to offense.

      That would explain why UGA was 12th in offensive YPP in 2017 and 7th in 2018.

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      • Derek

        But we were 10th and 24th those years in ypp given up on defense so he’s on to something. Actually, scratch “to.”

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      • Otto

        Smart made a decision that didn’t work out at OC. Chaney while not elite (worth the $$$ UTk is paying) was effective. Smart was a blown call away from likely beating Bama. Coulda woulda shoulda but what is clear even without a title is Smart has UGA routinely in the top 5 programs in the country.

        Further he made a change quickly at OC in an attempt to fix the problem. How long did we want Richt to fix problems at DC, or special teams? Smart may not always make the correct decision but he is aware of weaknesses and moves quickly to try to fix them. The comment further extends to roster management.

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      • W Cobb Dawg

        Exactly my point. Kirby absolutely needs a skilled, experienced offensive staff. In ’17 and ’18 Kirby had 3 current or former OCs: Chaney, Coley & Johnson. Two of those OCs were gone in ’19 and Coley was left to fend as best he could.

        Hankton as passing game coordinator? Gimmie a break!

        Hiring Hartley to fill the opening left by Chaney’s departure was pure folly.
        I’m no Chaney fan, but he’s far superior to a neophyte.

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  16. practicaldawg

    Based on how Fields looked on the field in 2018, I’m confident we would have taken at least one extra loss if he starts. Also, didn’t OSU cut some kid named Burrow? How did he do in the draft?

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  17. FlyingPeakDawg

    Fields doesn’t play in the SEC…I don’t think he gets the inflated stats if he does.

    And my point remains the same as from the other day…I’d rather we had won the SECCG and been in the CFP than have high NFL draft picks.

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  18. Rocketdawg

    I said this in the comment section of Seth’s story on the Athletic and I’ll say it again here: Kirby was in a no win situation with Fields and Fromm. The 2018 team was loaded and a playoff contender, you don’t start a true freshman QB for the third straight season and let him get OJT when the rest of the team is championship quality. With the exception of the LSU game, Fromm did nothing to hold the team back and in the SECCG put the team on his back and gave them a chance to win. Fields obviously had not gained a good grasp of the playbook and the coaching staff didn’t do him any favors when they put him in the game. That all being said I am convinced that had he stayed Fields would have been the starting QB last year and Fromm would have transferred. The Schmuckeyes have no room to talk, the QB they ran off threw for 60TD’s and arguable had the best season by a QB in CFB history.

    Liked by 1 person

    • junkyardawg41

      I agree — my question, looking back, is evaluating how good a job the QB coach was doing with his QB room and was his coaching/communicating ability a contributing factor to the player leaving.

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    • dawgman3000

      In 2018 Dwayne Haskins passed for 4831 yards, 50 tds, with only 8 ints, and a passer rating of 174.1. I’m curious for your reasoning on why Burrow should’ve started ahead of Haskins at that time.

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    • Dawgflan

      You’re on fire. Agree. That fake punt call in the SECCG changed everything. Had it worked and Fields become a hero instead of a scapegoat, 2019 UGA football would have looked different. There’s no way to know if different would have meant better, but I do think Smart would have had the stones to go with Fields in 2019.

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  19. Union Jack

    There are times in football when you go with the talent over the production. Case in point … Alex Smith was the NFL’s highest rated passer his final season in Kansas City (the season after they drafted Patrick Mahomes) and they went to the playoffs 4 out of the 5 years he was the QB in KC. He had a very rough beginning to his career, but his last 7 years as a starter in SF & KC his record was 69-31-1 with a passer rating of 95.5.

    Yes it is anecdotal. Yes the NFL isn’t college football. But some of the team dynamics are still in play in the NFL like college. Also you can draw parallel’s between a 1st round draft pick and the 5-star #1/#2 rated recruit in country. Sometimes you bet on upside – that the talent will beat and outperform the steady.

    I doubt we will ever get the full story for why Fromm was the guy that started 3 seasons over Eason and then Fields. If CKS leads us to the NC and has a 15-20 year tenure in Athens – this will be anecdote even if Fields wins NC in Columbus and/or becomes the #1 or 2 pick.

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    • Rocketdawg

      So you would have been ok with us losing to LSU, Auburn, and FU in 2018 so Fields could get OJT as QB1? Coming off of a playoff and National Championship game performance and almost win. Sorry I call bullshit on that one. Revisionist history and 20/20 hindsight

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      • The other Doug

        I don’t think it’s a full switch from Fromm to Fields in 2018. In hindsight Smart and Cheney should had an offense tailored to Fields’ strengths and developed him. What we had Fields run was awful.

        I agree that it’s totally revisionist history to now act like Fields should have been the starter, but it’s fair to expect the coaches to see the potential and develop it.

        Imagine if we were running a Monken type offense with a guy like Fields. Instead we lost Fields and promoted Coley.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Rocketdawg

          The problem with that is you are asking an offense to learn two different playbooks for two very different QB’s. Coming out of HS Fields was tagged as a “running QB” and I think him coming to UGA was to show he could be a drop back passer as well. Harrison runs a very similar offense to OSU, it’s a one read tuck it and run type of system. We all know that the UGA system is a pro set offense with all of the protection checks, hot reads, and sight adjustments. It’s a ton of information for a kid who has never played in that type of system to process. From what I have heard from a coworker who coached him in baseball Justin is a smart kid and there is no doubt he would have picked the system up in a year (at least to the point where his natural talent would make up for any shortcomings).

          Fields was the ultimate “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation for Kirby from the get go. Richt got killed for Watson going to Clemson and to a degree for Lawrence first committing to UT and then going to Clemson. If Kirby doesn’t recruit Fields and he goes and lights it up at Penn St then we are hearing the bitchers and moaners complain about how we let another 5star QB get away. So Kirby convinces him to come to UGA. None of us were there during the recruiting process so we don’t know what was promised or implied. In 2018 Kirby made the best decision for his football team to win games which was Jake Fromm at QB. Fields probably thought Jake was staying for 2 more years and started looking around.

          Liked by 1 person

      • The other Doug

        I realized after posting that the failure to identify and develop Fields is similar to the failure to identify Picken’s talents and get him the ball. I understand all of the problems that a true freshmen like Pickens has running routes and his off the field problems, but there should have been a focus early to get him the ball. That kid might not run the best routes, but if you put it up there he gonna get that ball.

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      • Union Jack

        That is fine and your bs is your opinion. I never said anything in my post 2018. The Smith/Mahomes comparison is that Mahomes was drafted and sat for a season behind Smith. KC made the playoffs and Smith the top rated passer in the NFL. He was traded in the offseason, Mahomes became the NFL MVP, took them to the playoffs in his first season as a starter and won the Super Bowl in his second.

        In my opinion, Fields would have stayed if Smart had committed to make him the starter in 2019. As I mentioned, there is precedent to move out a successful QB when someone else is more talented.

        Yes 20/20 hindsight is everything, it’s how you evaluate whether someone did a good job.

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  20. Malcolm X

    Forget the Fields, Fromm crap. With covid 19 there may not be a senior year for Fromm. So he gets $300,000 on signing a contract. Hmmm, 300,000 vs no play in senior year. Plus, not being first round frees him from required 5th year contract restriction. If Jake catches fire, he’ll make more money in 5th year. I also think he was tired of the Ga offense strategy.

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    • Chi-town Dawg

      I’ll be mortified if Jake Fromm is still playing in the NFL 5 years from now. I’m 50/50 on whether or not he even makes the Buffalo roster as a back-up QB. I like Fromm, but he’s another Aaron Murray when it comes to the NFL.

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  21. dawgman3000

    I don’t think Smart made a mistake in sticking with Fromm over Eason. Fromm over Fields is a little more complicated IMO. I still wonder what Kirby sold Fields on to get him in Athens from the beginning. The Fields bashers will say that ” he thought was going to come in and start right away.” I highly doubt that because he was already committed to PSU where he knew he was going to be the man after Trace McSorely graduated. Not to mention, he would’ve been in an offense tailored to his skill set. Whatever the case, it worked out well for him.

    Jake Fromm appears to be a good guy. I think he is a victim of some people making him out to be something that he wasn’t. I can’t count how many posters here kept implying that he was a 1rst round talent because he beat out 2 5* qb’s when in reality, he is a really good game manager. I say that not as a knock on Fromm, it’s an indictment on the antique offense that Kirby wanted to run. There’s a big difference between being a game manager and being a play maker. I think Jake would have done better if he was allowed to play to his strength, (i.e. HUNH) rather than just managing the game. However, that still wouldn’t fix his measurables concerning the NFL.

    It’s for that reason why I strongly disagree with those who think that Fields would have been any better in that offense last season. KIrby wasn’t really playing to the strength of the qb he wanted (Fromm), so what makes anyone think that Fields would’ve been allowed to be the playmaker that he is in that offense?

    The good news in all of this is that it appears that Kirby has learned from all that by hiring Monken. If we have football this season, I hope he demonstrates that he learned his lesson by allowing Monken to do his thing.

    Liked by 1 person

    • The Dawg abides

      I think the one difference Fields would have made last year is actually keeping the ball on the zone reads. He definitely could have gashed teams here, and that threat in turn would have opened up the inside run game from the clogged mess it was. This would then allow RPO’s to help the inexperienced receivers get the separation they couldn’t get on their own, which in turn gives Fields the minimal reads of wide open guys where he thrives.

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      • You have a good point on the zone read keep. The backside end (who is being read) could not crash down on Fields as opposed to Fromm. By the South Carolina game, no one was respecting the keeper even when you could clearly see Fromm could have gained 5-7 yards almost anytime he wanted. With Fields, that end could not focus on the running back because Fields would make people pay for not setting the edge … that 5-7 yard run becomes a 10-15 yard run or more.

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    • junkyardawg41

      I think you allude to a question I had in my mind earlier — Did Fields leave Smart or did Fields leave Coley (his position coach) and/or Chaney?
      I am not sure what the “Game Manager” moniker means anymore. Is he a DT guy? No. Does he have the arm strength of Eason, Herbert, or Burrow. No ( I think he and Tua have similar arm strengths)

      As for comparing Tua, Burrow and Fromm this last year, Coley aside, how many of the offensive players were drafted from Bama (4 – all 1st rounders), LSU (6) and the UGA (5).

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  22. BuffaloSpringfield

    A lot of you have kicked different cans down the same dirt road rather than asking is the OSU play in the BIG10 and it’s conference schedule and schemes both offensively and defensively as the SEC. I have no problems but saying Fields could make all the reads and change protections like Fromm in 18’ is ridiculous.
    Now I am not sure if you bothered to keep up Fields other than his stats and the OSU scores. He is a super talented kid, with a dad like many of you sound that’d drive your kid to Valdosta since they hired Prospt if it’d get him a scholarship.
    I took note of a interview with Fields not long after school began and the reporter asked how he like the OSU and he words “ I don’t really know I hardly ever leave the football facility because I take my classes on line from here.” Now I am not saying Jake was a better athlete than Jason, but for 18’ Jake was the leader. If Jason’s dad would not have lost his shit and let a Jason deal with the situation he might have agreed that Jake was the team leader and bite the bullet and fight the competition out with Jake in 19’ and won.
    Jason sure had a better field presence and time to learn from the Sugar Bowl where he left without even a gracious thank you till he opened up the first game in Columbus. That I will grant you but don’t sell the SEC short cause there’s Indiana ( bowl team loss to UT ), Wisconsin ( almost beat OSU )Purdue, Minnesota, Michigan St., Penn. State, Illinois, Nebraska and Iowa. Bring em down south and let them run through UGA, LSU, Bama, Auburn, A and M even…. seems like ya’ll kicked the wrong can if you happened to watch the CFP where where LSU beat Oklahoma 63-28 and Clemson 29 ( didn’t play real well ) The OSU 23 in the finale.
    All of you can argue points and granted I think the Pitt Boss leaving was Jakes security blanket. To quote Jake he stated that his mechanics were off because his footwork had gotten sloppy.
    Some of this Conference stuff is about greed for TV monies with contracts 10 years in advance. I my self would be interested in seeing Alabama go to the OSU and play a game out of Brant-Deny along with the Wolverines leave the big house and come to Athens. I last week suggested regional play in overcoming travel in lue of the pandemic. Less travel less exposure. I think we have more to worry about than where Fields ends up and I hope Jake makes it. If he doesn’t he’s a damn good Dawg. We won’t have to worry about Jake. He will be a success with or without your criticism.

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  23. TN Dawg

    Fromm proved from the beginning, if the game was in his shoulders, the game was lost.

    Kirby is a risk-averse coach and so Fromm was the perfect guy for him. A true Forrest Gump “To do whatever it is you tell me too Corch Kirb!” if ever there was one. All the super-snoop insider tips in how Belichick was secretly licking his chops over a heady guy like Noodle Arm were all incorrect.

    Kirby’s don’t-lose-at-all-costs game planning is the reason the defense doesn’t win big games with scheme or by creating turnovers and it’s the reason why the offense is 3 yards and a puddle of excrement.

    Without game breakers like Sony, Nick, Mecole, Pickens, D’Andre, etc, making big plays out of mundane routine calls, Kirby’s offenses will always basically be Vanderbilt with better players.

    He’s an unimaginative coach. If it takes inspiration to get a NC, we might as well get ready to wait another 40 years.

    Urban Meyer would already have two NCs in his pocket with the sane teams and be getting ready for retirement again.

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    • LMAO.

      I have no idea why you read this blog, or why you’re a Georgia fan, for that matter.

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      • Rocketdawg

        Exactly. That is one of the more absurd post I have ever read on here and that is saying something.

        I agree with the Senator, why not just drop the Dawg from your name and root for the Vowels instead.

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    • RangerRuss

      Some folks see the glass as half full.
      Some see the glass as half empty.
      This guy is just st st st st st stup a dumbass troll.

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