I continue to shake my head over broad pronouncements about the coronavirus and its effect on the economy, particularly the declarations that the worst is over, or that we’re simply going to have to take risks to revitalize the US economy for the simple reason that most of the folks making these declarations don’t know enough about either the virus or the economy to be authoritative. I don’t see how anybody does.
Take this nugget as an example.
Who wants to open up elective procedures to the level they were at last year? Not me. Having a few butts more in a Waffle House right now isn’t going to have anywhere near the same kind of impact as doing that.
Maybe turning the economy around is more complicated than you think.
*************************************************************************
UPDATE: Everyone losing their patience with my sense of caution ought to read this Amanda Mull piece.
At first, Derek Canavaggio thought he would be able to ride out the coronavirus pandemic at home until things were safe. As a bar manager at the Globe in Athens, Georgia, Canavaggio hasn’t been allowed to work for weeks. Local officials in Athens issued Georgia’s first local shelter-in-place order on March 19, canceling the events that usually make spring a busy time for Athens bars and effectively eliminating the city’s rowdy downtown party district built around the University of Georgia. The state’s governor, Brian Kemp, followed in early April with a statewide shutdown.
But then the governor sent Canavaggio into what he calls “spreadsheet hell.” In an announcement last week, Kemp abruptly reversed course on the shutdown, ending many of his own restrictions on businesses and overruling those put in place by mayors throughout the state. On Friday, gyms, churches, hair and nail salons, and tattoo parlors were allowed to reopen, if the owners were willing. Yesterday, restaurants and movie theaters came back. The U-turn has left Georgians scrambling. Canavaggio has spent days crunching the numbers to figure out whether reopening his bar is worth the safety risk, or even feasible in the first place, given how persistent safety concerns could crater demand for a leisurely indoor happy hour. “We can’t figure out a way to make the numbers work to sustain business and pay rent and pay everybody to go back and risk their lives,” he told me. “If we tried to open on Monday, we’d be closed in two weeks, probably for good and with more debt on our hands.”
Get The Picture 
Our Govt is here to protect us.
I live in a County with a population of around 120K…supposedly, 9 Covid deaths, all pushing 80. Easy math to me.
Let those elders and at risk folks stay at home, let the rest of us get busy living.
Still not wearing a mask…I don’t own a mask.
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More Americans dead in 6 weeks than the entire Vietnam War? So what? Didn’t care then, don’t care now. Someone else’s problem.
Besides I’ve got my bottle of clorox ready.
If we could all, like you, embrace the ways of the reptile rather than always trying to be so damn “human” we’d all be better off.
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I hope you are staying home….what does the Vietnam war have to do with the price of apples? Did you feel that way about the Flu most every year?
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Its perspective. Its a concept humans, who have not, like you, failed to take advantage of their large cerebral cortex, use to measure different circumstances against one another to gain insight and understanding.
The flu doesn’t kill 55,000 Americans every six weeks, stupid.
There were roughly 34,000 flu deaths during the prior season.
Less than a 1000 a week or about 10,000 per week. Same thing right? It is, if you’re painfully dumb.
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If we are going to compare random things that kill people then you might as well go full crazy and compare car deaths too, right? I mean they kill on average over 3000 people a day world wide. The ol’e Chinese virus pales in comparison to that statistic.
Why aren’t we banning cars? What does your cerebral cortex tell you to do about that?
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That car crashes aren’t contagious stupid.
If you want to argue that its more dangerous to drive like many of those dead drivers than doing your day to day activities amidst a pandemic, yes its about 3 times more dangerous.
Which, if you’re capable of thinking, is pretty scary that the difference isn’t greater.
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Derek has set the record for calling two different posters stupid within the first four total posts. That is impressive. I agree with you on your representation of how the arguments are presented BTW.
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He resorts to that very quickly when he at a loss. Which is often.
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I could see Derek being a serial killer.
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It would be difficult to coax prostitutes onto the back of his bicycle. Thank God.
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I would think HIV would be a better analogy. We know what causes it, we know how to prevent it, we can successfully test for it, we have medication to treat it, and there were still an estimated 770,000 deaths in 2018. Doing a 6 week average would show 88,000 died.
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Regarding AIDS is that worldwide or in the USA?
The 55,000 deaths due to Covid is USA only, not worldwide.
AIDS is NOT airborne btw. If it had been, I somehow doubting the right would have been for everyone going about their business.
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It’s worldwide.
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If you read the comments to your post, you’ll realize we’re not gonna make it. I agree with everything you’ve posted on this topic. We’re in deep
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Bad analogy – HIV is not an airborne illness.
Also for COVID-19 – other than staying home and staying 6 feet away from people, we don’t have much of an idea of how to stop it. They haven’t figured out why some people have more severe reactions to it, there isn’t a definitive course of treatment or drugs that can be used to prevent the spread of it.
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If HIV is not a good analogy, is there a good analogy?
My point on HIV is it is a killer worldwide. We have known how it spreads for 30 years. We know how to stop the spread. If globally, we can’t stop the spread of HIV, how do you stop an airborne infection?
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Personally – I don’t think there is a good analogy. The closest is the flu but I think that is misleading. I wish experts/leadership/media had never compared it to the flu. I get that they were trying to explain it to the general public but now comparisons are used as evidence to support a particular course of action etc.
I wish I knew how to stop an airborne virus. The only method that I have seen that works is to limit contact until a vaccine is developed. This is so new and different that the course of treatment is basic.
I also knew that staying inside for months on end wasn’t realistic. My initial concern was that we were/are going to break the US food supply chain. Our economy has drastically changed since 1918 obviously, and we have a semblance of an economy because it has, but we the food supply chain still needs people to grow, pick, process, deliver and sell it.
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So it seems like you’re saying unless you are reckless, stupid or just plain lazy you are not likely to contract HIV, much less die from it. COVID-19 not so much.
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Biggen it’s unconscionable that we accept the current state of carnage on our roads. We should be redesigning them to be safer instead of shrugging off all those deaths.
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#FLATTENTHECURVE
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#straighteningthecurves
#flatteningthehills
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#INFRASTRUCUREPACKAGE
#DISTANCELEARNING
#TRUSTTHEEXPERTS
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#damnstraight
#dukesofhazzard
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#onlyonewhogotit
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Someday the mountain might get em but the law never will!
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#beensayingthisfromthebeginning 😎
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What about rubber cars…?
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Making Derek look cogent is a tough feat, but you’ve pulled it off. Kudos.
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If this virus is so contagious and so much more deadly than anything our generation (or multiple ones before us) has ever experienced, then the death rate should be much, MUCH higher than it is right now. Here in SC, we have a reported 5,735 cases of the virus. 53% of that number are 51 or older. We have a recovery rate of 76%. Of those that have died as a result of that virus (192), 87% are 61 and older with 67% being 71 or older. NO ONE under the age of 20 has died from this in SC. It’ time to try and salvage what’s left of our economy while we still have a shot. I do think that shot is a slim one. I think we’re in REAL trouble here…
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The Vietnam reference was that we have surpassed the death total we had in that war. If that didn’t bother you, then I guess you don’t have anyone in your family that you feel is susceptible with age. How old are your parents? Ah! You don’t know your parents, so no family love lost, amirite?
You may want to look at the totals for your age bracket before you imply that only us oldsters are susceptible.
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My FIL is 82, he is sheltering in place. It doesn’t help that he is fighting Cancer..he is, and will always be a DGD..class of 59, I think..
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You need to look at the deaths according to age. While the old and sick are more susceptible, most of the deaths in the U.S. aren’t septa- or octagenarians.
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Yes, they are. Ages 65+ are 79% of Coronavirus deaths.
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26,667 out of 33,513 according to this “news” source are 65+ (80%). 30,886 out of 33,513 are 55+ (92%).
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Wait, did LBJ and Nixon draft jarheads from nursing homes and nephrology cinics?
What a strange strategy. You’d think he wouldn’t get old people on deaths door step to fight the Viet Cong.
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Most of the Vets who survived that war are now in their 70s, part of the vulnerable population for the virus. Sounds like double jeopardy to me.
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Didn’t care about 58,000 Americans killed in Vietnam?
Go Fuck Yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Exactly. Sure, losing your house and all your possessions might be bad. But you can take comfort in knowing that our elite overlords are willing to sacrifice you at the altar of saving even a single life (with preexisting conditions). Fuckers!
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#SOCIALDISTANCING
#WEAREALLINTHISTOGETHER
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PTC Dawg gets it. If you want to stay home, then stay home already. Nobody is twisting your arm to get out of your house.
But let the rest of us work if we god damn want to. I have a business and a family to support. I sure as hell can’t do that from my couch watching Tiger King filth.
Fl Gov Desantis will be announcing today some type of opening for Florida. The beaches are already reopening and soon tourism will be moving again.
If Florida doesn’t have a summer tourism season then I’ll be in the unemployment line.
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“PTC Dawg gets it. If you want to stay home, then stay home already.”
Not really. It isn’t only about one individual staying home to avoid contracting the disease; it is just as much about keeping people from spreading the disease, especially the asymptomatic who don’t know they are contagious. It is also about managing the number of infections to give medical units a fighting chance. For a six week period, the numbers are truly staggering.
Here is a website with some interesting data points:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdUOA?Si
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“It is also about managing the number of infections to give medical units a fighting chance.”
I think it is more nuanced that that. There are temporary facilities that have closed down because there aren’t any patients. To the Senator’s lead in, if elective surgeries are way down, that would say there are medical practitioners who are able to be suppliers for the demand.
I think the issue is more centered on clusters than an overall demand on the system. I think the overall heathcare system is fine but I would guess only a few hospitals in NYC can handle infections diseases which exacerbates the problem.
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Take a look at Albany, Georgia, then get back with me on your thought about NY.
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Would you say Albany is a COVID cluster?
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Good point. We should run the entire country as if it were one giant hot spot. Better to die of cancer from not being able to get a mammogram than to potentially die of Coronavirus. That shit’s scary!
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I’d get ready for that unemployment line if I were you. Florida ain’t having much of a tourist season whether the restrictions are lifted or not.
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That’s a really sensitive comment to someone who may have worked his butt off to build a business.
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Watch and see FL will be back soon
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My family is planning to head to 30A in June. We’ve been looking forward to this for at least 6 months. I hope your business flourishes this summer.
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Marco Island first week of June. As long as the liquor store is open we gone…
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I hope you have a great time, eethomaswfnc. My annual trip to the Keys or coast with my left leaning gator trash friends isn’t assured this year. Last time we missed the trip Florida was on fire. Diving and fishing in the North Ga mountain lakes as a last minute replacement vacation was less than satisfying.
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I have a part of my family that are Handbags. I love them to death, but the family reunion last spring was golden. I didn’t say anything.
Hope you’re able to enjoy that trip as well. I was in Key West on a cruise 3 weeks before all of this hell broke loose. First time there since my college spring break. We were only there a few hours, but I forgot how enjoyable it was. I had a rum runner at Sloppy Joe’s and fresh key lime pie at Kermit’s at 10:30 in the morning and then followed my wife around to all the little boutiques in town.
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I did the Cayo Hueso trip with all the ladies and gator trash once. Once. Had some rum at the requisite bars for brunch, made the screaming cat noise that set off Hemingway’s polydactyl inbred cats and pissed off the old queen charging twelve bucks for entry to the house. Naw, I didn’t go in. Ate some good food, drank some more rum,surreptitiously paid too much for an emerald set in an Atocha coin that my wife was admiring,checked out some historical sites. Not my scene. A bad day fishing beats a good day shopping.
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Good luck going forward…
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Tell us what your business is so we can come buy something!
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Biggen you ain’t gonna be in the unemployment line brother. All of our beaches are opening up bro except Se corner which will be open in about 3 weeks. I’m praying and pullin for you
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Mr. PTC DAWG,
You would like to get busy living, and this is great. Just try not to kill me while you are getting busy.
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You can stay home and he can’t get to you.
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My hospital and all local hospitals have.
We have a very good testing paradigm, plenty of capacity, and adequate PPE with a system to track and reuse what we can.
The key for us will be close monitoring infections and ICU capacity and the willingness of administrators to titrate back down if infections ramp up, which I’m skeptical about, but everything else is in place.
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Who would have ever believed something coming from China would turn Christian conservatives into Pro-Choicer’s and Right to Die advocates.
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Well, I can’t deny that some very vocal, visible, self-proclaimed “Christian conservatives” might fit your description, but please don’t paint all of us that way.
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Strange times indeed – who would have thought liberals would be grousing that GOP governors and presidents aren’t serious enough about their population-wide lockdowns?
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Having a few butts more in a Waffle House right now isn’t going to have anywhere near the same kind of impact as doing that.
How do you know that? No one knows yet what effect open restaurants will have on the number of reported cases. This isn’t a “gotcha” moment. Just curious how you arrived at that statement.
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How do I know that? I looked at his chart.
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Small sample size, but hospitals in Birmingham are mostly empty and have been since late March. So have restaurants. According to the chart, both industries have the highest percentage of negative impact. I don’t think it’s possible to say with certainty that open restaurants or elective procedures will have much different outcomes.
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Except restaurants haven’t been completely shut down. They’ve been able to provide take out and delivery service.
Everybody pointing to a personal experience based on a local example is part of what I shake my head over. (I realize you qualified that, but there are many who don’t.)
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^^^THIS. “Everybody pointing to a personal experience based on a local example is part of what I shake my head over.” To continue your thought “and using it to apply to form one’s national perspective.”
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Many will be completely shut down. Forever.
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In all fairness many of those would’ve failed sooner rather than later. It’s the nature of the business
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I’d guess the failure rate of non-franchised restaurants to be higher than 20%. MIL works for a provision vendor and she says it’s more like 50%. The caveat is that there is always another one opening or hiring. The “I’ll just go somewhere else” option is not available to food service employees anymore.
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Actually about 60% of restaurants fail in their first year and almost 80% close before their fifth anniversary.
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I saw an article yesterday that said David Andrews is cleared to play football again after missing all of last season due to blood clots. Didn’t see it mentioned here but thought it worth sharing.
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We’ve got to start somewhere to begin to dismantle the hysteria that the leftist media has succeeded in whipping up.
As far as comparing the covid-19 deaths to the Vietnam war, the only thing they have in common is that communist China played a significant role in both.
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And trump opted not to take any action in either circumstance. Except to the degree necessary to cover his own ass.
The right wing media nailed this one with hydroxychloroquine!!
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“if I were a physician in a hospital and someone were dying, rather than do nothing, you can see if these work.”
– Anthony Fauci 4/18/2013
This is the right wing that wants to just treat critically ill people rather than wait for FDA permission! They’re monsters!
Wouldn’t it just be better for kind-hearted politicians like Gretchen Whitmer to just put everyone out of work for their own good?
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26 million unemployed in a month. To say we can continue this is absurd.
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If you open places back up, but people are unwilling to take the risk of going, what exactly have you accomplished?
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People can make their own choice. But you have to start reopening.
And the reality is, most parts of this country should never have been shut down. The Northeast and major northern cities have been the biggest issue, and remain so. We are a continent size country, with vastly different parts. Open the areas that can be opened.
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Areas can’t be opened in good conscience until testing is done to determine the number of unknown infection carriers. Then you know where to intersperse and take your chances, otherwise, you are gambling with the virus’s money.
The way a few of you are posting, you seem to be ramping up to great infection parties to see who will survive with antibodies or to carry it among the unsuspecting. Have at it, but please post a notice so that we can avoid you and yours in public.
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#NOLA
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You don’t get it. You can’t be free to leave your house because there is a small chance you could infect me, if I choose to leave my house.
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1,013,168 confirmed cases in the US (since January, mind you, not current cases, something that is never reported). 2/3 of those are in northern states and California (NY, NJ, MA, IL, CA, PA, MI, CT). Top 7 states are northern and Cali, followed by FL, LA, TX, then CT. Top 14 counties are in northern states, and 22 of 23 (Miami Dade is 15). Half of all cases are in the NYC tri-state area.
But yes, shut it all down.
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I’m not advocating we shut it all down. I am simply saying where the process should be starting is with widespread testing, so we can avoid acting out of ignorance.
I own a business. I’m not any more interested in crippling the economy than you are.
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The concern I have with the widespread testing is twofold.
1. If I test positive (and am healthy), am I asymptomatic or have I had it and no longer able to spread it.
2. There are now multiple strains of COVID. If I had COVID 6 weeks ago, it is possible for me to get another strain (I think there is evidence of this) which makes me able to spread it again.
3. Is the test reliable enough? The current Flu tests are not 100% reliable. Would a COVID test be reliable enough to avoid the issues of transmission?
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Good questions. I would just add that widespread testing is merely the starting point. Rigorous tracing and quarantining of folks who test positive is just as important — not to mention that once you have a good regime in place for all this, it’s a lot easier to let everyone else start down the path to normality again.
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I agree. This is a wicked problem:
Wicked issues can be defined as problems in which there is little or no… – Agreement on the definition of the problem (owing to multiple values, perception, and perspectives)
– Clear solutions to the problem owing to the wide array of possible solutions and trade-offs associated with each
– Easily identified causes or authority due to the problem having multiple potential causes, jurisdictions, stakeholders and regulator or implications
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“Ignorance”. From your above. I do love it. Yet you claim we’ve got to have widespread testing and tracing before we do anything. That is pure fantasy. There are 335 million people in this country. Widespread testing of that many isn’t happening. Tracing is even less likely and pure, utter fantasy as it takes multiple people multiple days to trace. So you’re spouting ingnorance.
There is no easy answer. But you can’t sit in your fantasy world and say we need widespread testing and tracing before we can open up, because that will take us into next year.
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Germany is testing their entire population every two weeks. Hardly pure fantasy.
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I know that Germany is testing a lot more people but I haven’t seen where they are able to test 83 Million every 2 weeks.
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My bad. Ran the calculator too quickly. 650,000 tests a day means they test everyone within four months.
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So if we double Germany it’ll only take 257.5 days.
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There are two types of test that tell you two different bits of info
The first type tests for the presence of the virus itself. If you are positive for this, you currently have the disease and are contagious; you should be quarantined because you are high threat for spreading it to others
The second type tests for the presence of antibodies to the virus. If positive, this means you have had the disease (perhaps asymptomatically) and have recovered. You are not contagious. You are low threat to be in public due to some level of immunity (extent and duration of immunity unknown)
The problem is most of us will fall in a third group: negative for both types of test (if tested at all). We are the group vulnerable to infection. In the absence of knowing who is contagious, we limit our exposure to others.
If enough testing was available, those of us in the third group would feel more at ease in public during a reopening because we would feel confident that all is being done to identify and quarantine the truly contagious.
In the absence of adequate testing, I have a feeling most of those in the third group would remain sequestered even if the economy is reopened.
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False Positives are another layer of issue in testing.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/health/coronavirus-antibody-tests-terrible/index.html
Not sure the tests results are “terrible” but it is concerning.
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Just take a look at those countries that are opening up again and determine how they were able to do that. Testing, testing and more testing is the only answer and if other countries can get ahead of everything and open up again by testing like crazy, why can’t we?
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Which countries are you referring to?
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What are you talking about? It is named COVID 19 for 2019. It is not the COVID v.19. The “common cold” is a coronavirus. So is MERS and SARS.
But the mutations of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) has been slow.
“Scientists know that SARS-CoV-2 is mutating.
Among the thousands of samples of the long strand of RNA that makes up the coronavirus, 11 mutations have become fairly common. But as far as we know, it’s the same virus infecting people all over the world, meaning that only one “strain” of the virus exists, said Peter Thielen, a molecular biologist with the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory.
Only one of those common mutations affects the “spike protein,” which enables the virus to infect cells in the throat and lungs. Efforts to produce antibodies that block the spike protein are central to many efforts to develop a vaccine. Since the spike protein has changed little so far, some scientists believe that’s a sign that it can’t alter itself very much and remain infectious.”
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Yes, I am aware that COVID19 is not v19. And maybe strain might is not the right word — mutations? There are instances of people who have had COVID19 getting it again. Is that a mutation issue or are they getting the same COVID19 again or did the test provide a false positive and the person actually has COVID19 the second time and not the first.(I honestly don’t know but I think it is a question that needs to be answered)
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As referenced in the NYT, the virus mutates every time it spreads from person to person. However, only 11 mutations have been common but its the same strain that is infecting everyone.
Hopefully this means that they will be able to improve testing procedures over time plus develop a backlog of data to answer questions about antibodies and antigens.
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If true (and nothing points to anything other) that this is the same strain that infects everyone, what if people can actually carry it and be asymptomatic multiple times. For example if Person A is asymptomatic, gets tested and comes up positive and is quarantined for say 10 days. After which, Person A is cleared to return to regular activities. 10 days later, Person A is reinfected and remains asymptomatic but is a carrier of COVID. That scenario scares me the most and would make the problem infinitely more difficult.
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That I don’t know and it is definitely a concern – which is why I have been dumbfounded that our nation rejected the WHO test and is so far behind testing development. The key to this whole thing is testing for data and testing for more data and testing again for more data. It is new and we just don’t know enough.
I was in the Bay Area/SF/Silicon Valley/Santa Cruz in Feb (15-22). Wasn’t too worried about it at the time based on the information available. I have never had symptoms or worried I was sick at all. But I have since wondered if I could be an asymptomatic carrier especially with the 25% asymptomatic report from Stanford earlier in the week. Of course that study is controversial and the testing system for it and most everything involved in COVID has reliability issues.
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This is too important to wait for data!
#ShutItAllDown
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/two-new-waves-deaths-break-nhs-new-analysis-warns/
2,000 people per week are dying in the UK from limited healthcare access because of the shut down.
#PickYourPoison
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That is completely irrelevant. Does double the daily death rate put us in a position where our health services are overwhelmed? If no, then it is not a problem at all. The lockdowns do not prevent death. All they do is delay it.
Secondly, the model of complex systems are bullshit.
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I have no idea what you’re responding to here, and I’m not sure you do, either.
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I was responding to the tweet that you posted that claimed that models show that the daily death rate in Georgia could double by early August due to Kemp ending the lockdown. It should have been obvious as the reply was directly to your post and was directly related to the content of your post.
The non-argument of tweet is simply irrelevant. My points were that 1. The models are bullshit. and 2. Even if the the daily death rate doubles, that isn’t a problem so long as it doesn’t overwhelm our health services. The whole point to the lockdown was to avoid overwhelming our health services. It was not about saving lives. We will all get sick until we get her immunity or we make a vaccine. A vaccine may not be possible.
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“what have you accomplished”
You’ve given non-boomers & those of us that don’t have Type 2 diabetes or hypertension the opportunity to leave the house and maybe even earn a living.
We get it, you’re scared. There’s no shame in being scared. Don’t leave your house (except for those Sunday drives in your Porsche). You’ve practiced law for 40 years – take a little time off and enjoy it. Good on you.
If the devil’s greatest trick was convincing the world he didn’t exist, the boomer’s greatest trick was convincing the world that Covid 19 was a deadly threat to every man, woman and child.
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“Maybe”.
Well, that’s definitive.
I’m not sure why those of you who are critical of my caution take pains to make it personal with me. And you can kiss my ass with the gratuitous Porsche reference.
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Arrogance or naivete? Why we make this personal for you? You’ve been making this personal since the beginning with this. You have no concern over what everyone else is going through or what else is going on other than hurling insults at those you disagree with…and i get it now…your elitist views consider those who have to leave the house for work as “Trumpers”. You need to leave Buckhead and head to South Atlanta sometime. Blue country and need to get to work. Hardly Trumpers. Your retorts about people focusing on the ivory tower and “you’ll worry about lives” really? Such BS man. And then the comment about it’s none of our business whether you are successful or not during this period. You’re shit gets old quick man. It’s called talking out of both sides of your mouth…and you’re a pro at it.
Disgusting.
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Come on man.
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So don’t come here you fucking asshole.
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Making it up as you go along, at least you admit it’s personal.
The rest of this is your usual sockpuppet invective. You know what that means.
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That dude is seriously jealous of your auto, Bluto.
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So if I understand internet lingo regarding sock puppets correctly, Normaltown Mike and UGAdawg2020 are the same person?
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No. Normaltown Mike is a long-standing commenter here. He’s a good guy.
UGAdawg2020 is something like the tenth handle for somebody who’s got issues with me. I don’t get how somebody has the energy to spend that much effort trolling here, but I’ve got to say it’s starting to creep me out.
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Ah gotcha. I was surprised and thinking, “dang Normaltown has been here for a while.” I know what you mean about this commenter, I’ve seenhim pop in from time to time, but you know how those internet types are. jk😉 is it the blogger Thomas Brown?
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No. TB was just too wired about Georgia football for his own good. This guy is something different.
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FWIW thanks for giving us a place to voice an opinion/vent among mostly reasonable folks at a time like this. I’ll make it two sixers of Creature Comfort should the tailgate happen this year.
No handshakes, tho …
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I guess that means hugs are out, too. 😉
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You need to look at the age brackets that deaths are divided into. Try WHO to get data in detail. If you think that only Type 2 diabetes and hypertension are the only problematic groups, you need to educate yourself – and damned quick!
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Right. Young people from 15 to 25 are 0.10% of Coronavirus deaths (including preexisting conditions). That’s why we have to shut down colleges.
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You’ve given people a choice. That’s better than not having one.
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I don’t see anyone that knows enough to be authoritative about it either way. The models have been wildly off. All we know is what the limited testing shows. We also know that densely populated countries like Japan are seeing the same shaped curve we are.
Decimating the economy and keeping the lowest risk / most productive segment of the US population home is definitely not a viable solution. We accept much higher risk getting in cars every day. Or at least we did.
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Exactly. That’s the real problem we need to address to get the economy back on its feet.
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“Models are off” Yes, it’s almost as if taking the actions prescribed by medical professionals (social distancing, wearing masks, etc.) impacts the projections that were made before those things happened…amazing!
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A lot of those models also showed the deaths WITH social distancing.
The models were wrong plain and simple. That is why you are seeing a major offensive to get this country open. With a death rate as low as it is its crazy people still think that economic armageddon is the answer.
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I’ll bet that over 50k people would object to that statement, if they were alive.
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#StayAtHome
#StayPoor
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Yep, 50k in 6 weeks with the most draconian restrictions any of us have ever seen. So let’s reopen!
Obviously we need to reopen the economy or there won’t be an economy left. But we need data and a rational plan to do so. “Hope” is not a plan.
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Did y’all hear about that Bungee Jumper that died of Covid-19? Heartbreaking.
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The data has all been bad, all been all over the map. The understanding of the virus has been bad also.
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Still tracking my company’s internal projection, made weeks ago, of 300k-800k US deaths by end of August 2021. Nothing has occurred to lead us to modify this projection. As a reminder, we’ve assumed several “waves” or “peaks” over the total course of an 18-month period from February 26, 2020 to August 26, 2021. One reason we have assumed several waves or peaks is economic and social pressure to re-open things too quickly in many quarters, and a natural human fatigue (in some cases), ignorance (in other cases), and rebellion (in yet others) which lead people to flout social distancing and other guidance.
Please note, I am not claiming to know anything about how things will shake out. Our projection, in addition to assuming relaxing participation in social distancing, etc, also assumes no effective vaccine or ground-breakingly effective therapeutic treatments until end of August 26, 2021. Obviously these could show up sooner (or later).
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Thanks again for posting info that’s helpful and predicated on current data.
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You’re welcome. We’re not experts at anything. Just a business with 85,000 customers trying to make our own internal forecasts about how COVID-19 is going to effect our bottom line. But in attempting to arrive at realistic “margin” numbers I think we’ve made some pretty good forecasts of more serious numbers as well.
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What data is your internal tracking using? That projection is much higher than any current forecast that I’ve seen.
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That may be because most of the widely-cited projections are only through August 2020. And they don’t assume additional waves/peaks over the next 15 months like we are…. although judging from headlines today (below) maybe this is changing…
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/495971-trump-administration-projecting-3k-daily-coronavirus-deaths-by-june
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I think this topic was covered in the playpen a couple of weeks ago, but if you guys are looking for something to binge watch while everything’s on lockdown, I’d highly recommend the youtube series Hot Ones. A celebrity guest answers questions while eating 10 increasingly hot wings. The host is outstanding and it’s fun to watch the celebs’ reactions while their mouth is on fire. Some of my favorites are the episodes with Charlize Theron, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Nick Offerman.
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Sounds terrible, tbh.
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It may not be everyone’s cup of tea (what is?), but give it a shot if you’ve got time to kill. Some episodes feature athletes, comedians, rappers, chefs, all sorts of people. I’m almost certain you’d find one that piques your interest.
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You sound fun —-
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On the surgery part I can speak with experience since I sit on the Board and the MEC for a couple of out patient surgery centers and on staff at multiple are hospitals. Elective surgery is reopened in Texas, BUT we are at reduced capacity (advised and prudent but not mandatory). Will some push the boundries. Sure, but that is with anyting. We have made sure at our facilities that PPE is still mandatory. Patients are screened by phone 7 days and 3 days prior to arrival and again when they arrive. NO ONE other than the patient is even allowed in the building unless they are accompanying a minor or someone who they have the POA to make decisions for. All others wait in the car or go home and we will call you when done. Every OTHER patient bay is being used in pre op and PACU to maintain social distancing. Every thing within reason is being done or provide a safe environment for patients who wish to proceed with elective surgery.
I think the general public has a some what skewed view of what elective surgery is. An old man that can not see to take care of himself and drive due to cataracts NEEDS it taken care of. Your mother or father that can barely walk due to OA of the knee, NEEDA to have it replaced so they can independently take care of themselves. These are all considered elective since they are not life or limb threatening (but can be life altering) and last week were off limits. While elective, the person waiting certainly does not think it is unnecessary. No, no one died waiting for these over the last few weeks, but they should not have to wait any longer than is absolutely necessary for pain relief or return of independence. These are but a couple of quick examples. I think too often when the general public hears “elective” their mind jumps straight to boob jobs and facelifts and not the myriad of other things that make up the elective category.
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I’m not gonna lie, I immediately thought of cosmetic surgery when I read “elective”. I didn’t realize those other things fell into that same category.
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Was thinking the same thing …. “Give me boob jobs & tummy tucks, or give me death!”
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Agree 100%. Elective procedures, invasive diagnostic procedures or non-emergency procedures are the life-blood of hospitals, and this money helps support not only the hospital itself but in the case of academic medical centers it also supports the academic and research missions (the latter 2 are my area). The hospital at the academic medical center where I work has lost ~$25 million so far and that’s not unique to our institution, that’s happening everywhere. Now, one could argue that this dependence on so-called elective procedures to support the hospital is the consequence of a broken health-care system in this country, but that’s a topic for a different debate at the moment.
Many hospitals like ours are requiring testing of patients prior to elective procedures; others are taking precautions like Texas Dawg said. These procedures are vital to keeping hospitals afloat and like Texas Dawg said, these not only include nose jobs and facelifts, but also diagnostic procedures like endoscopies, and tons of ortho cases (backs, knees, shoulders, hips, etc.) and the like. That’s my $0.02.
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I have a relative who is the HR Dir for a large orthopedic practice. They are still open and seeing patients because people still hurt themselves in a quarantine. Also some people come in for therapy but all surgeries are off unless it is necessary/immediate because of the injury. Most of their staff is furloughed.
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My mother was a week away from hip surgery. She did all tbe preop, she eats werll, takes her meds. But she can barely walk. Her surgery is considered elective. Its a joke
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That sucks man. She should have been able to get that done, hip surgery is amazing. My Mom just got one (just prior to CoVid) and she was walking unassisted around the block in about a week.
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With Jawja reopening shes supposed to be high in the queue of where shes going.
I barely got my knee done in time. One more week and i would have wasted months
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Don’t know about knee, but with the hip, they’ll have her walking that night.
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I hope your Mother isn’t suffering too much, Chuck. I fail to understand how that’s elective. My MIL broke her hip Christmas eve. Fortunately she’s insured well and received great care. She’s walking fine now. At 87 that’s not elective surgery.
My Mama had a heart attack Christmas night. Piedmont/Athens Regional provided extraordinary care but she’s on her own at 84 because social distancing.
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Appreciate that. Shes back in line now. It’s just a very clear personal example of what is a essential versus non essential and elective vs non elective. My mother takes as much care of her health as she can and follows doctor’s instructions but because of age and injury this hip surgery was very important. And it should have happened regardless. Not being able to walk isnt elective.
The supplies too many many of the canceled orthopedic procedures. Many of the heart procedures. This includes cancer screening and cancer prevention. Mammograms for example. On and on.
I’m not saying that any of this is easy butI personally have landed that we need to look at safe versus not safe. What is essential to me may not be to you. Right now getting work is extremely is essential to me. Majorly. Just like my mom’s hip surgery is majorly essential to her. Both can be done with safety.
And sorry for that tangent. I really appreciate your kind words
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I will definitely put in a prayer for your parents tonight. Thank you for sharing
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Word to both of y’all. There’s a lot of people hurting out there and no one is giving a straight answer. For me, I ain’t seeing dead people piled on street corners or armed troops at checkpoints and that is what I was expecting based on how life threatening I’ve been led to believe this is. This has been done to us by our leadership regardless of what side you shake out on. For me? I don’t like living in fear. I’ll abide by the rules as much as possible, but when it comes to putting food on the table I’ll do what I have to. Let the devil take the hindmost.
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The lack of empathy and arrogance of your positions continues to amaze me Senator. First, I’ll give you some counter opinions to your carefully selected tweet that allows you to snark against Waffle House. Economists and financial experts have long said that elective surgery continues to be the highest margins for health care providers. Once this was shut down (and it should have been) to focus on providing care to Covid-19 victims, we were bound to have a negative impact to the bottom line of health care (which is what you are seeing here). You should do some more research into the issue before you draw the ad-hoc conclusion you made. Go back and read the economist you quoted after that post. He made an observation of irony, not a conclusion-like you did.
Second, I continue to find it not only insulting but “elitist” the positions you take. It has been made very clear that you work in an industry that has continued to operate in the current crisis, and as such, likely have not experienced such a significant drop in revenue as the more than 26 million Americans that have lost their jobs have. You continue to hurl insults at blue-collar workers who do not have the luxuries you do. Let’s go back to a basic economic lesson. Without tax revenue, the government cannot continue to operate. Stimulus money is not unlimited. Trump or Biden will have to raise taxes to pay for this, that much is clear. You should be thankful you still have checks coming in, not telling those that don’t they should suck it up and have little value.
I also find your posts arrogant as you operate from a position that has no “boots on the ground” and happily cash your checks from your business while you watch others suffer. Your only constructive comment was that opening the economy will be more complicated. Yes, but it has to open. Every mental health professional has completed well documented studies that job loss and economic downturns lead to a greater number of suicides and drug dependency. But that doesn’t matter to you does it? Make fun of the people at Waffle House and imply (smugly) that those working there have no value. A little humility would do us all some good.
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Delta is read when you are.
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Funny you said that. Lewis made that comment to people like you.
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I don’t really understand why you think he has “hurled insults at blue collar workers” or “made fun of the people at the waffle house.” I didn’t get either impression from his comments. And I was a blue collar worker for the majority of my working adult life (11 out of 16 years).
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It’s bullshit, that’s why.
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Obviously the young man has never been in a Waffle House. How can you not make fun of the people at the Waffle House?
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Full disclosure:
I’ve been in one Waffle House. Brandon, Mississippi in 1998. Part of a church youth group “lockout” starting with bowling at 10pm, a lot of games at the church, a late-night visit to Walmart and THE HIGHLIGHT OF THE EVENT was a 3am breakfast at the Waffle House.
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I’ve been in a damn pile of them and it wasn’t with no church group. At three o’clock in the morning the only human in a Waffle House that isn’t part of the highlight reel is the DD, if there is one….
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When there ain’t no DD that’s the place to sober up on coffee and greasy food. The staff are surprisingly cooperative and lenient if you tip a $20 up front. They’ll even let you sleep face down in your grits.
That’s what I was told anyhow.
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Steak, eggs over light, hashbrowns scattered and smothered. Wheat toast of course (’cause it’s healthy!) and coffee black as the hinge on hell’s gate.
No finer 3am start to a recovery or a rally….:)
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There’s so much wrong here, I don’t know where to start.
Lack of empathy? The whole point to my argument is we shouldn’t be exposing folks without a better understanding of the risk.
I haven’t made a damn thing clear about my business, and frankly, it’s none of your business whether I’m succeeding financially right now or not.
If you are as concerned about blue collar folks as you make out, let me show you what crapping on them really looks like:
The rest of your post is exactly what I question when I wrote mine. If that means I’m an arrogant elitist, I guess I’ll have to live with your criticism.
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Paying people not to work is exactly the kind of compassion we need right now. Money is cheap. Entrepreneurs are replaceable.
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You really should get in the bumper sticker business.
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Littleman Dickshit is a great example of why our govt. should not be continually cutting funding for mental health programs and services.
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Math is hard. Stimulus 3.0 will probably solve the problem until stimulus 4.0 can be approved. Until then, I join Grafton in licking the boots of our elites because they care about us so much.
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#hastohavethelastword
#nounderstandingofnuance
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Two weeks in a row. You’re on a roll.
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Every single f*cking time. You’re the one dipshit with nothing to add.
Batting 1000 there, champ.
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Bumper stickers are nonessential.
#StayAtHome
#StayPoor
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America 2020: Blow right past what someone actually says and project 100 lbs of bullshit on it so you can get OUTRAGED at something the person never actually said.
For the record, this was exactly the same nonsense the PC crowd did for years and why everyone grew to hate them so much. Now it’s staple of right wing response.
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I am not sure the Senator is doing this here but I have seen an enormous amount of well to do folks telling the peasants to sit and wait until their betters tell them they can go back to work. It is easier to become disconnected from the people who “HAVE” to work to continue to pay their mortgages and feed their families. They can’t manufacture from home. The scorn they seem to be receiving makes me foul. Not everyone can work remotely and still keep their household afloat. It is really easy to shout orders at others from the Ivory tower.
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Giving you the benefit of the doubt here, I will tell you that I’ve been fortunate enough not to furlough or lay off any of my staff. But I worry every day about whether in keeping my office open, I’m exposing them to a serious health risk.
You worry about the ivory tower. I worry about the balance between earning a living and living.
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I own a business and have also kept my entire staff. My company is one of a few that delivers oxygen so my people are probably more exposed than most. I have split my staff as much as possible and we are working one crew (1/2 the staff) for a week and then rotating the second crew in the next week. All while wearing PPE and doing what we can to limit any one crews exposure to the environments we have to navigate and each other. These are strange times and we take this very serious but we “have” to work. Also I see that from a manufacturing side that construction is still continuing at least the industrial construction side and has never slowed in my area. That is also a segment that we provide to.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my first sentence.
I do however see a lot of that on this board from people who are out of touch with how a how a huge proportion of Americans survive. I am not sure we could keep things “shut down” and not see an economic calamity the like of which most of us have not see in our lifetime’s. There just is no good answer but the answer has to assume some ground between keep the econom grounded until the science is conclusive and lets all head to the mexican restaurant tonight. We need to work with as much caution as possible but we have to begin to open.
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I know you did. That’s why I replied the way I did.
When you say, “We need to work with as much caution as possible but we have to begin to open”, what you’re really saying is that it’s not important for us to make informed choices. I understand why it’s come to that for many folks, but I can’t excuse it.
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Your position is that making the uninformed choice to shut down the economy is more responsible than making the uninformed choice to open back up the economy?
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The coronavirus chose to shut down the economy? That’s one pissed off disease.
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You think the Coronavirus has been conducting press conferences and issuing executive orders? I thought politicians did that.
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No, I think the economy was cratering before the politicians got involved. You seem to believe otherwise.
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Not at all. I tend to think of it like you think of the NIL debate.
Some people claim that players won’t earn money on the free market, so we should keep regulations in place to stop them from doing so. And you tend to argue that, if that were true, the regulations wouldn’t be necessary.
And now, you’re reversing course. You’re arguing that, since many people refuse to participate in the economy, we should have laws and regulations that forbid their participation. My point is that if people really don’t want to earn money right now, we don’t need the regulations. All the regulations accomplish is stopping people who DO want to participate in the economy from doing so.
That seems pretty clear to me. It doesn’t seem to be clear to you.
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I appreciate the thoughtful response, but I don’t think your analogy holds water.
The NIL debate involves private parties, one of which is an illegal cartel manipulating the labor market.
The lockdown debate is over whether government should restrict people’s freedom in the course of protecting public health. Equating a private organization’s rules with government policy by calling both “regulations” is a misrepresentation. And that’s before I even get to what you believe the government regulations do.
That last point is simply a matter of philosophical difference between us two. The rest of your comment doesn’t hold water.
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Does that mean that if Congress makes the NCAA a legal cartel manipulating the labor market, you will change your tune on amateurism?
Personally, I don’t hold politicians in that much esteem.
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It would be a moot point with that, so, yeah, I wouldn’t see any point in continuing to sing the song.
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“I worry about the balance between earning a living and living.”
This has been my position for a few weeks. I’m trying to balance between saving our business for future employment and limiting exposure to our employees. We are operating at limited capacity but continue to pay all employees full pay. I call in only those I need to complete customer orders and send them home when the orders are complete. We check temperatures at the door and require all to wear masks. The work tables have been spread out to ensure safe distancing and sanitizing solutions made available. I’m reluctant to bring any back that I feel are at high risk.
There is no way I can know if our efforts are working 100% until it’s too late. I’m concerned that efforts to limit exposure at work is wasted on those who will re-enter normal social life away from work.
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We’re doing the best we can under difficult circumstances. Sadly, much of this could have been avoided if this country had approached the problem more aggressively when we first learned about it.
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Facts, logic and reasoning?
Why not blame, distract, deny and sarcasm? Wouldn’t that work just as well?
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All I know is it’s not my fault.
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Locking down NYC would have been the best course of action, as in no one in or out. Or so it seems to me…30% of the deaths are from that area…It seemed to hit there hard and fast.
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”Come on down to Chinatown. It’s safe.”
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I called a digital meeting with my people last week and the basic premise was that for the foreseeable future that we are all going to have to live with a heightened sense of anxiety and insecurity. I assured them that they are covered that their jobs are secure and if they get sick we have their back. After that there is not much else I can do. They understand that the products we move are essential to the medical, research and industrial communities.
This was never going to be contained in this country. We just aren’t built that way and I am 99% of the time completely OK with that. This was just the 1%
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I get it.
I don’t want to think what I would have chosen to do if the Ga. Supreme Court hadn’t relaxed its practice rules to allow for virtual closings via Zoom. And I’m hoping like hell if Kemp doesn’t renew his order tomorrow, the Court will leave things the way they are now.
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Well, there it is. You haven’t had to furlough the first person. Your perspective is much different than millions..I can tell you that.
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You make it sound like it’s been such an easy decision for me.
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Yeah..I mean it is YOUR money after all right? Fuck them for telling you how to spend it or not give it to workers. After all, I’m sure you’re operating at zero margin and maintaining a non-profit status during this crisis so that can give money away…
As always, your self-righteousness is appreciated on us blathering fools.
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No idea what you’re ranting about here. I haven’t taken a paycheck in 2020 to make sure I can cover my obligations to my staff and everyone else.
Although I will say that at least you refer to yourself correctly as a blathering fool.
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Got PPP?
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As of today, yes. Load off my mind, at least for a little while.
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Leave the big decisions to AB. 🙂
Seriously, back in the day, my Real Estate Firm closed a bunch of deals with y’all in the office at Eagles. Always great work..
Best of luck going forward in this mess.
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Cool, man!
Best of luck to you, too.
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Senator- So YOU can keep your office open and working, but others cannot? Sheesh man.
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Sheesh, yourself.
Outside of the occasional UPS/FedEx person (and they’ve taken to leaving packages outside our door), we’ve had a grand total of three outsiders in my office this month. All wore masks and gloves. Any office that can operate in the same manner and protect their employees is alright to do business in my eyes, just like any place where everyone can work from home.
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No. The scorn is for the total deniers and “let’s just throw a few hundred thousand bodies onto the funeral pyre so we can get back to business faster.” And those deserve scorn. And they are a small percentage. Vocal. Great click bait. But a tiny portion.
Everyone wants to get back to work and school as soon as possible. But “reopening the economy” without a plan isn’t reopening the economy. It’s just lazy policy people who don’t want to the hard work of managing a crisis – so they just blame people instead of doing their damn jobs.
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You’re on it, ASEF.
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Not challenging, just trying to gain a fuller understanding and perspective.
When you say without a plan, what does the plan look like? Is it a national plan, a state plan, a county plan?
Who are the folks who should be managing the crisis and has the structure of crisis management worked before?
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All levels. Everyone who wanted a leadership job at the city, county, state and federal level signed up for something like this.
The plan here in my county is going to be very different than the one in the county next to us. Our main employers here are education, healthcare, and agriculture.
Move north one county, and tourism jumps to the top of the list, with education and healthcare also in their top 3. Tourism is way more complicated with this virus than harvesting apples, green beans, and seed corn.
We think our Covid-19 levels are pretty low – global awareness was pretty high by the time confirmed cases started popping up here. But if we knew, then plans can get more aggressive.
So, testing is key for them both. Some of that’s federal, and some of that’s Raleigh.
That’s a quick snapshot of what I’m talking about.
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Thanks, I appreciate the clarity.
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That’s the key. These bigots want to pretend like an 85 year-old man with leukemia dying while being suspected positive for Coronavirus isn’t worth throwing a few dozen families out on the street.
But we keep saying. If even one person can be saved, it’s worth any amount of misery for plebes to go through. So shut up, eat your rice and beans, and we’ll tell you when you can start earning a paycheck again.
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Ah, Stupid has arrived.
More idiotic binaries and projecting things never said. Just what a respectful back and forth needed.
Dumbest Poster on GTP. Low bar given how intelligent and reasonable almost all the commenters here are, but your aspirations are your aspirations. Who am I to quibble?
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Dumbest for agreeing with you? If you insist.
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“Nearly half of the Q1 decline in GDP can be attributed to healthcare, which is presumably delaying of elective procedures.”
That’s a wild generalization, in case anyone didn’t notice. I had to put off my annual checkup and 10 year colonoscopy. Wife had to put off her annual checkup too, and some follow up procedures she anticipates. Getting back to generalizations, I imagine that same scenario goes for a huge number of people. Elective procedures are certainly NOT “nearly half of the Q1 decline”.
Like Normaltown commented, I’ve seen very short lines at our nearby testing area too. I believe that’s only because we still limit who can take the tests. I’ll be in that line as soon as I’m permitted, and I assume that goes for a pretty substantial number of others.
We need to KNOW who has Covid and who doesn’t, and quarantine those who do. Like it or not that means extensive testing. Going back to normal without knowing the basic facts is playing Russian roulette. And if Covid mutates, which flu’s are wont to do, we might look back on the last 6 weeks as the good times.
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Same here with me, WCD. Spot on.
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my argument from the beginning. HIPPA laws have become a detriment to public health!
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WCD, not meaning to criticize in the slightest, but why do you feel you need to put off your checkup? Mine is scheduled for next week, and right now I’m planning on keeping my appointment.
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Mine was put on hold for April 8 by the doctors’ group that I visit and I’m waiting for them to reschedule, something they show no intention of doing until testing is adequate. In the meantime, I’ve incurred a sinus infection that went to a sore throat and is headed for the lungs, yet, I’m not anxious to go to an ER for treatment. Gargling with salt water will suffice. I’ve also experienced chest pains that have been checked before, but an EKG won’t tell me crap if it’s the heart unless I’m lucky enough for faulty pumps to occur during the exam. I’ve practiced breathing exercises to get more oxygen circulating if it’s angina (and I suspect that some of it is because it goes away sometimes during breathing exercises, so it must be intermittent) and I have nitrogen tablets so I’m rigged for getting to the hospital in time. These and several other small maladies aren’t nearly as scary as walking into an unknown set of hospital testing of patients and personnel for this virus.
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My annual checkup, tests, etc. are usually perfunctory. I assume the Doc, who was always heavily booked, is tending to more pressing patients, has to take extra precautions for staff and limit visits, and probably has a backlog from quarantine. Missing or delaying one annual checkup over a couple decades isn’t a pressing issue considering my health (thankfully).
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I”m currently in a weekly Hospice team meeting(in California) we’re seeing a significant increase in late admits. i.e. people are waiting much later to seek help. It is a lose/lose situation. Patients end up having more issues (pain/anxiety/etc.) and more difficult passings and Hospice resources are stretched admitting and discharging patients in a compressed time frame. On top of that, we’ve had to designate one of our county nursing homes as a “Covid” center. We admitted 8 pts last week and 2 this week with a Hospice diagnosis of “Covid-19”
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As I posted earlier from the NYT, COVID-19 mutates as it spreads from person to person. Most mutations do not change how the virus functions.
“Among the thousands of samples of the long strand of RNA that makes up the coronavirus, 11 mutations have become fairly common. But as far as we know, it’s the same virus infecting people all over the world, meaning that only one “strain” of the virus exists, said Peter Thielen, a molecular biologist with the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory.
Only one of those common mutations affects the “spike protein,” which enables the virus to infect cells in the throat and lungs. Efforts to produce antibodies that block the spike protein are central to many efforts to develop a vaccine. Since the spike protein has changed little so far, some scientists believe that’s a sign that it can’t alter itself very much and remain infectious.”
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Nothing will begin to improve to the country’s liking until tests are made available (saying they exist when they don’t doesn’t qualify as an answer). When enough tests are made to test everyone pre- and post-exposure, the organization to administer testing will have only begun.
Politicians are trying to tell a deadly unfeeling microbe to do what they want and to convince the people that they can do also simply by tossing people out with everyone else who, because of selfish reasons, will not act in the best interests of all. You gotta’ figure they think we are really all dumb shits like their pandemic deniers.
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One of my best friends is a practicing family physician. He’s had to cut back staff at his office–either take a 20% pay cut or take an additional 8 hours off per week–because he’s had so many appointment cancellations.
Trying not to project one local situation too far into the national storyline, I still imagine this scenario is playing out all over the country.
Wolfers’ “presumably delaying of elective procedures” is far from the whole story here. Fear of catching the coronavirus at the doctor’s office–misplaced fear, IMO, but fear nonetheless–has a whole lot to do with the medical downturn.
Also I sure don’t see what resuming elective medical procedures has to do with getting more butts into the Waffle House.
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Flying Blind: never ends well
What a few here have been consistently posting is that competent and comprehensive testing is the foundation for all the variable solutions out here. Without that level of testing, everyone is just flat out guessing. Some will guess right and some will guess wrong, but guessing makes everything a hell of a lot harder than it needs to be.
Competent testing will get the economy back on its feet the fastest. Competent testing will get most of the people I know back to most of their economic activity – looking at houses, buying cars, going on vacations.
Guessing? Nope.
PS: A lot of others are here with the latest round of “it’s not even the flu” or “it’s all a media hysteria hoax.” I’ve seen exactly one poster admit he was wrong about that – everyone else in that camp just bellies up to the latest Playpen with the newest spin. I honestly wonder if they even remember being so spectacularly wrong 6 weeks ago. But if you’ve been wrong every step of the way so far without acknowledging that, you’re not bringing a lot of credibility to your argument, no matte how much conviction you put behind those insults and outraged responses.
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I was never in the crowd that you mention above but it strikes me as everyone has been incredibly wrong about this thing from just about all angles. Also I have seen dramatic improvements in our testing here in the state over the last two weeks and that gives me hope that we are getting closer to having a better understanding of what we should do next.
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We still can’t get tested in our neck of the woods (western NC) unless you meet a very stringent criteria. In other words, rationing.
There has been a lot of wrong from all angles – because people have to guess.
No masks! Must have masks! Won’t even be flu season! Gonna kill us all!
I’m fine with people who looked at evidence and made best judgments based on the information available at the time. I have no patience then or now for people working backwards from politics to a preferred view in spite of the evidence. And yes, there is some of that from all angles.
Which doesn’t make it all the same. A cashier at Ingles carries a different expectation than a store manager, who carries a different expectation than the CEO.
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I think you are right on testing. I can only speak from my experience and conversations that I am having with medical people in Georgia broadly and Athens specifically. We have really ramped up testing. 4 weeks ago I marveled at how much testing was being done in North Carolina. For some reason your testing has slowed but that may be a product of less people requesting tests as you have less cases than we do. Our numbers were 42nd or 43rd in testing per million as a state. We are testing now at a rate that I think will probably put us at about 27th or 28th in the country and that climb has happened in the last two weeks. I have no love for Kemp but he has somehow found a way to ramp up testing at a pretty quick pace. Next will be how fast we can get antibody testing going.
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2020 is so jacked up that we are not even talking how the Pentagon officially released videos of UFO’s on Monday and pretty much said “We don’t know WTF these are.”
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Oh they know WTF those are … they are just saying that they don’t so it can be used as possible COVID-19 source a few months down the road. 😉
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Them Martians are just waiting till the virus is over, then they’ll invade.
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The Pentagon released the footage ”to prove this is all the content it has”.
Brought to you by the same place that said there were no POWs in SE Asia in the early 80’s.
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When I see that a position/policy is advocated by those whose normal position is based on an untenable system that’s been abandoned by its strictest adherents then I automatically reject that position. I’ve limited my exposure to the frantic propaganda promulgated by the MSM as their bias is obvious and insidious.
Personal protective gear and social distancing is imperative to protect not only the old, weak and infirm. It’s just common sense as this Chicom virus is nothing to take lightly. However, I see the hand of those who would seek to destroy the good order and prosperity of this country simply to ensure their return to power. R’s and D’s both are complicit in their desire to continue their lucrative corrupt system. But it’s the psychopathic left that is the greatest threat to me and mine.
I’ll resist them to my death.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/does-liberalism-cause-mental-illness.php
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And I’ll do the same to the fascist right. So what?
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It’s scary.
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You’re a fine fellow who I hold in high regard,i84. But you’ve been around long enough and are politically astute enough to realize when a crisis is being manipulated for nefarious purposes. It doesn’t matter if it’s Jerry Falwell and the righteous right wing or Lyndon LaRouche and the looney left.
I find it hard to believe that anyone, left or right, is willing to accept the entrenched corruption emanating from the unelected permanent bureaucracy and Congress. I wouldn’t piss down any of ’ems throats if their guts were on fire. Their willingness to attempt anything to unseat Trump makes me suspicious of whatever policy that crowd institutes.
Don’t think that I’m advocating wholesale reopening of all business. Simply skeptical of those proven untrustworthy.
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All I heard is, “Blah, blah, blah, I’m a MAGAtard.”
#You’reEitherWithUsOrYou’reAgin’Us
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And I feel the same way about you. However, when I asked how some of our vets here could support this clown in light of his obvious avoidance of service I was told “it was a cowardly act and I have not respect for him but if he fucks with liberals he’s ok with me”. The dude will turn on you and anyone else in a heartbeat if it suits his purpose. What and I supposed to do with that? He’s not a conservative he is who he is and unseating him is a worthy effort.
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Are you a guy who believes that Bill Clinton avoiding service was OK? Or that John Kerry’s dubious purple hearts to get back home quickly was OK? Just curious if it’s the service, or the R that riles you up.
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Im a combat vet. Lots of hardware. I dont give a flying fart what other people did or didnt do in service. I didnt serve to yell at people that didnt. And hell, i imagine if i had the resources i may have dodged the nam too.
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i84, I agree with everything you said except the unseating him part. Only an outsider has a chance to dismantle the culture of corruption that is our federal government. As detestable as that philandering carnival barker may be to you? He is it.
If the fourth estate would do their job of investigative reporting and shine some light on these Congressional shenanigans we wouldn’t be forced to settle for the amoral and unscrupulous scoundrels leading us into third world status. Talk about selling commercial airtime? How about Bush, Obama and all three Clintons doing a perp walk wearing Tennessee coveralls in steel bracelets on national TV.
I’d pay to watch that. We need serious people running this country. The clowns we have ain’t them.
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I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there
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Interesting article if you can access it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-media-vs-flatten-the-curve-11588113213?shareToken=st9647a7e84d334cc8b5c552a36b866166
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Nobody knows what they are talking about. The science changes weekly.
Everybody seems to have a slant. Facts and stats are manipulated to support the slant. We have managed to make a crisis into a left/right fight. Fox only tells good news, the rest only tell bad news. You can tell if a state is going to open up based upon the governor’s party affiliation. Why is that?
Are both sides so worried about an election that they make these decisions based solely on politics? Even reviewing this thread, I can tell each author’s political lean.
I don’t know all of the risks because I don’t trust what anyone says. But I do know this, I live in a pretty free country and if I want to go to work, or to the Waffle House, I think I should be able to. I have gleaned just as much info as any other guy. The owners of the businesses can make their decisions and the employees can do the same. Those who don’t want to take risks can live their lives too.
We can’t wait for a perfect opportunity to open. If some of those who take risks get sick, I realize this will have an impact on the rest of us who don’t. But we’ve always had to pay a price for a little more freedom in this country.
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I still can’t understand why there are leash laws on my bengal tigers.
I thought this was America!?!?
Pretty soon we’ll have armed patrols of uniformed gubmit personnel going around telling us what we can and cant do in the name of “public safety!“
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My fear trumps your freedom!
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Freedom Isn’t Free! —- It’s a Boner bumper sticker.
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What a time to be alive. The Fake News has now gone meta. They now post fake articles that are prefaced by the fake news they originally reported. Not only do they make up the idea that Trump told everyone to drink bleach, they then make up the idea that people are now doing it and are calling Poison Control.
https://reason.com/2020/04/25/no-poison-control-calls-arent-suddenly-spiking-after-trumps-disinfectant-comments/
We already have media companies that intentionally:
1. Post photoshopped images and videos that have been edited to remove context.
2. Post photos / videos that are from different times / locations in order to be misleading
3. Provide edited transcripts
New “Deep Fake” technology is rapidly progressing. Here is a deep fake of Obama presenting Trump’s Inaural Address.
What is the over / under date for when CNN or MSNBC present a deep fake of Trump saying the n-word?
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Crisis actors:
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/495089-two-men-in-georgia-drank-disinfectants-in-efforts-to-prevent-covid-19
Btw: nohing is more appropriate in a time like this than a few well played jokes and sarcasm.
Clown in Chief!!!
When you best excuse is that you’re inhuman or inappropriate and not painfully stupid, then you know its MAGAt time!!!
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As always, you are too deranged to remember that I am not a Trump supporter and that I only comment on if he actually said / did what the media reports.
Your derangement prevents you from seeing the part that is really fucking obvious. Trump did not tell anyone to drink anything. He never said the word bleach. He was talking about medical testing he was briefed upon earlier. One item was an intro-tracheal UV treatment that is being tested at Cadars-Sinai hospital. The other was a disinfectant. He asked a presumably dumb question about injecting it in their tests. We have no evidence of whether or not they were going to test injections into patients. This is probably people pitching the idea of testing Chlorine Dioxide.
You will notice that what he did not do was tell anyone to drink bleach. That part is completely a media fabrication. So when psych patients drink bleach, it is because of the fabrication. To blame Trump for people making up a fake quote is idiotic… so that explains why you believe it.
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He said what he said:
It was both dumb and not sarcastic.
Since we don’t vote for who is in charge at MSNBC or Fox or CNN i would think our focus should be on our leaders and representatives and not on the unelected press who are in the business of doing one thing:
Selling advertising
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There are some positive side effects, though.
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Well, you are at least somewhat getting my point, but you are trying to deflect. My point was yes, he said something dumb. You notice that I referred to it as a dumb question, because he was asking a question. He did not do what the media
I’m not even going to watch the clip you posted. I already know that Fox News is a Fake News outlet that targets the ignorant Boomer market segment. This gets back to my earlier point of continually having to remind you that I am not a Conservative and that I am not a Trump supporter.
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The clip is just trump talking. Its ok.
Sure its painful and stupid, but its unfiltered.
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Oh, when I was writing my reply, it looked like the video posted was the one below where it compares Fox News’ coverage of Ebola vs Corona.
I know Trump says dumb shit. So did Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, etc. Everyone says dumb shit all of the time. The difference is that not everyone has a camera recording everything they say and a media ready to lie about it. Well, that applies to everyone except Joe Biden. His advanced dementia makes it to where he can only say dumb shit.
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The idea that people can’t distinguish between occasional gaffes and abject idiocy is just amazing to me.
I’m sure Albert Einstein occasionally misspoke. Doesn’t mean you take him and compare him to a guy with a 58 IQ who misspoke and say: “welp just the same i guess.”
Thats not how it works. Thats not how anything works.
Dale Earnhardt drove a car. I drive a car! Same thing!
I’ve thrown a football. Tom Brady throws a football! Same thing!!
God gave you eyes and ears so that you can make distinctions.
The dude that said that shit about disinfectant and light is a fucking idiot. No person that dumb has ever held that position.
As his own Secretary of State said: he’s a fucking moron.
Has any cabinet appointee ever been accused of calling the president a fucking moron and then would not deny saying it?
This is DIFFERENT!!!
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You forgot the “REEEEEE”!!11!!11!
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The trump cultists are right. Fox news is consistent:
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Right wing pols? Consistent:
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Trump? Also very consistent:
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2 Americans died from Ebola and it was all Obama’s fault.
55k Americans have died from Coronavirus and its all exaggerated, media hyped and trump has no responsibility at all.
This is the right in America.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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Whatever! I’m still waiting on that goddamn birth certificate!!!!!!!
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One team thinks the ‘rona is no worse than the flu. The other team thinks we can shut everything down indefinitely until there’s a vaccine. It’s a two team conference where all they do is beat up on each other.
Anyone who thinks differently isn’t even allowed to play.
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One thing I am curious to see is the March trade deficit with China (Available 5 May). Year over Year February numbers decreased $11B. ($33B to $22B) It makes me wonder if this is why China is pushing to reopen and why it is incentivized to downplay the impacts. (If goods are not coming here, they need to find a way to have $11B consumed in other ways)
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He has the best words. Everyone knows this. Everyone says so. Such a high IQ. Important people are calling him saying: that thing you said was the best sarcasms evah. No one has ever sarcasmed so bigly. So he’s doing a tremendous job. The best job. It is, as he predicted, near or close to zero and getting even better and more good as things improve. If it weren’t for the fake news media, everyone would say: only 55,000 dead is the greatest victory. We’re number one in the world in deaths. Who would have thought that we could be the best at dying of the Chinese Bat Eating virus? But we did it and so things are so great and tremendous and will be getting even better.
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We’re also #1 at something else. And Derek is a carrier.
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How you like this you fucking jackass? “COVID-19 , WORLD VS THE UNSEEN ENEMY, EVERYDAY HEROES, PRESIDENT DONALD J, TRUMP, VICE PRESIDENT MICHAEL R. PENCE, SECRETARY S. MNUUCHIN, DRS. JEROME ADAMS DEBORAH BIRX ANTHONY FAUCI PRE-ORDER, HISTORIC MOMENTS IN HISTORY SERIES, ALL PROFITS DONATED!
https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/covid-heroes.htm
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Trump gear? NEVER! If you’ll give me your address, I’ll ship you some yard signs. I’m ordering a gross.
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“He has the best words.”
So true. Only the best words. A big man cart hauler came up to me. He had tears in his eyes and said I owe all this reopening work to you. It’s the best stimulus ever!
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I can’t make myself read all the comments. Just here to shout out to Amanda Mull – Grady Grad and proud Dawg that she is. The Senator appears to be reading her at The Atlantic; the rest of y’all should, too.
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It’s interesting that Mull mentions Colorado and other states only in passing – some that opened before GA and have almost identical reopen orders – like the aforementioned Colorado. That’s about as a slanted piece as you can find.
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In the Atlantic? Inconceivable!
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Pretty sure cherry-picking comments out of articles (without context) and making them blog topics is Standard Operating Procedure around here.
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They’re the opening paragraphs to an article I linked to in the post, but I guess I lack your insight into what constitutes context around here.
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Taking articles and pulling quotes out of context is S.T.O.P. around here. Usually they become blog posts. Stick around..
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Man, this must be an important point for you to repeat it. Drama!
Why do you read GTP if you disapprove of how I operate?
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How many states have had shelter at home orders in place for as short a period of time as Georgia’s?
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Every week i just imagine on Thursday, derek setting his alarm for the following Wednesday, spending those days getting amped and jacked, studying on how to atrack the right on the interwebs, then the alarm sounds Wednesday, he slams 3 pre workout drinks, rips off his shirt, and starts keyboarding.
Then sadly, with a tear in his eye, it all ends Wednesday evening. The thrill is gone. Until…
Thursday hits and he can set that alarm and start getting amped for Wednesday again.
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He’s hardly alone in diving into the Playpen. I opened this up because of several folks who didn’t play well, so let’s not go down that road, okay?
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How do you imagine short flatulent penis? I’m sure he’d like to hear from you and, unlike me, he’s ONLY here on Wednesdays so act now.
He may have a pepe the frog or some other stormfront generated meme to share with us in response.
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Thanks for paying so much attention to me, buddy. I do occasionally comment on other threads, but it’s the righteous and indignant ignorance that really amuses me. And nothing beats middle schoolers for that.
Here’s a Russian bot-generated meme from fucking fuckers who don’t blindly trust CNN for their news.
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Does the elephant notice the flies?
Probably.
Doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know them to be annoying bothersome worthless shit eating maggots (or MAGAts) that he wishes would just go away.
But there they are anyway.
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You’re still passive aggressive, use fallacious logic, insult your betters, yet feel the insatiable need for attention that plagues the most precocious and narcissistic of children. In other words, you’re adorable.
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You post this whine and then like boner’s posts? What a hypocritical douche bag you are.
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In both insta responding and now name calling, youve proven my point twice over.
But the boss man and old internet friend asked me to knock it off, so i did, then you keep on keeping on.
You need to see the sun derek. And go screenless minus needed phone calls for a few weeks. And stop calling people names, bc i absolutely garantee id have none of your shit in person. Youre weak. Weak for your trolling, bantering, attacking, name calling, and failure to have any meaningful interactions.
NB is entertaining, at the least, and doesnt nearly seem to have his panties up his ass as much as you do.
Now, go ahead, call me some more names, its what you do here, to most everyone
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Just say “i agree with boner.” And leave it at that.
Isn’t it “weakness” not to admit the obvious?
If I was shitting on liberals in the very same way you’d be liking my posts.
Your ilk just loves trump tweet hating from the wh but get all melty when i post harsh messages. Im not potus dumbass! For him you should have standards, but no! Standards are left for the likes of me.
And I’m supposed to shy away from words like “stupid?”
Why? The shoe fits. Wear it.
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When complaining about the behavior of an official, it’s always good to behave much worse than he does. It lends credibility to your posts. Only the most serious and earnest of middle schoolers would complain by insulting over half the population, using profligate cursing, and topping it off by accusing everyone you know of being a Russian agent. Kudos
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I was never one that believed that this was nothing more dangerous than the flu. I believe that plans to gradually open up the economy must be implemented to lessen further economic damage. That being said, I have also gradually come around to the idea that testing must be more available in order to completely open up everything and return to business as usual and social norms. I know only three people personally that have tested positive for coronavirus. The boyfriend of a divorced friend of my wife who became seriously ill after a business trip to Miami the first week of March. For about ten days of the four weeks that he wasn’t feeling well he said that he felt worse than at any point in his life and seriously considered checking into the hospital. The divorced friend of my wife was tested after the boyfriend tested positive because of some health issues she has. She was positive and throughout late March and early April she never had symptoms beyond what she would normally have during allergy season in Georgia (mild sore throat, mild cough). The divorced friend of my wife’s teenage daughter was tested and was positive and she has never had a single symptom. Do I believe that the virus has infected many, many more people than what the numbers are showing? Absolutely. Do I believe that the death rate among infected people is far, far lower than the percentages shown because of that and that the virus is not as lethal as it is being made out to be by some? Absolutely. So while I believe that we must gradually reopen the economy using wise precautions, as much social distancing as possible, and PPE as much as possible, I also can’t see going back to business as normal and social norms before this started without more testing to help prevent asymptomatic people from unknowingly spreading the virus to those who won’t be so lucky healthwise.
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Agree or not i wish more discourse was like this.
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Oh, freaking forgot why i came here earlier anyway.
Got in kayaking both Monday and Tuesday this week. Absolutely wonderful to get out in the sunshine. Also a sunset beach ride and stop on bicycles
Completely safe, pretty much completely on our lonesome kayaking. Sunshine and exercise is the best medicine you can get.
The beach had many more people than I expected. But I would say it’s 90 to 95% local. I didn’t see any violations of social distancing but more people than expected. There are tourist in town.. . I don’t know why other than maybe they already had their rentals lined up. Was surprised that the scooter rental places are even open and operating.
If you can get out do any any outdoor exercise….its the best. “Sunshine is good medicine.”
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I thought the whole point of this was to “flatten the curve”. The model Kemp uses says we hit resource peak yesterday and we’re at like 1/7 of our capacity. Looks like the curve has been flattened. I’m all for wearing masks in public but let’s let businesses and customers decide if they’re ready to reopen. We don’t need a state or federal mandate. The situation on the ground in Albany might be different than Savannah
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https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/22/coronavirus-and-fallacy-false-dilemma-14736
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Lemmings. Lemmings to the cliff. Accept what you are told. Believe what you are told. DO as you are told. Question not. THEY know what is best.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit.
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