Your 5.13.20 Playpen

Watching this embarrassing display of legal representation (yes, I’m using that term loosely)…

… immediately brought to mind this classic moment in the annals of Georgia jurisprudence.

… There are three bulldogs, former mascots of the school, buried behind one end zone at Georgia’s Sanford Stadium. Joining them there, in a fourth grave, ought to be the opening argument as uttered for the ages by Hale Almand, the attorney for Ervin and Trotter. While conceding that, indeed, the university does give preferential treatment to athletes and that, to be sure, Kemp is a good teacher, Almand wrote the epitaph for his case by also saying, of the typical educationally deficient jock: “We may not make a university student out of him, but if we can teach him to read and write, maybe he can work at the post office rather than as a garbage man when he gets through with his athletic career.”

University officials understandably blanched at that. Vince Dooley, the football coach and athletic director, said, “I told him [Almand] that was a terrible statement. He couldn’t have done a worse thing.” But matters did get worse. As a poignant footnote to Almand’s statement, The Atlanta Journal and Constitution reported that Landy Ewings, a black football player who had gone through the remedial program and had dropped out of Georgia in 1983 after three years at the school, had taken a job working on a garbage truck in Athens, the university’s hometown.

I don’t think poignant is the word I’d use to describe that, but I digress.

Tell me, is there another state in the country where lawyers raise the “our education system blows, so you must find in favor of my dumb-ass client” defense the way Georgia lawyers do?  Asking for a moronic friend…

What?  Oh, yeah.  Have at it in the comments.

273 Comments

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273 responses to “Your 5.13.20 Playpen

  1. Gaskilldawg

    Yeah, I cringed when I watched that Monday night. I wondered why Kevin Gough (the lawyer) even agreed to go on the show with his client. He embarrassed himself and his client and got no benefit in return.

    Gough kept making veiled comments about the Brunswick DA was out to get his client’s girlfriend. What the hell was that all about?

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  2. Derek

    I’m pretty sure the shooters’ lawyer releasing the video was worse:

    At least they had enough education to go hire someone else.

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    • Go Dawgs!

      Yeah, I saw an interview with that particular attorney and he was convinced that the video proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that his client did nothing wrong. That’s one of the all-time dumbest decisions I’ve ever heard of, bar none. Instead of getting his client acquitted in the court of public opinion in Glynn County, all he did was ignite a national firestorm and assure that his client would indeed be arrested, charged, and tried. The accused should think of getting himself another attorney.

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      • Derek

        That attorney’s services were not continued.

        That was malpractice. Perhaps fortuitous for society malpractice, but malpractice nonetheless.

        Of course, he could rely on the DA that agreed with him as an excuse.

        Who knows if/when we would ever have seen it but for the lawyer?

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        • Go Dawgs!

          For society’s sake, I’m certainly glad the idiot did it. Definitely still can’t believe the dude thought it was a good idea though. And you’re right, it’s possible the case never makes it to a court room without the outrage the video brought. The story was already lost in the shuffle of the pandemic.

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    • I know both the lawyers and the DAs pretty well. George Barnhill made a huge mistake. He has been Jackie Johnson ‘s go-to conflict guy for a while. Jackie indeed had to pass on the case but may or may not have stepped in it by allegedly telling the GCPD to leave the McMichaels boys alone. Tucker is a local and makes the rest of us look bad. He remarkably got a cop off of a manslaughter charge in a backshooting case down in Kingsland last year so I guess he’s the white-on-black violence defense lawyer of choice now. Gough is a damn yankee from NY who puts on a drawl and tries to come across as Matlock. Both of them are pretty much WYSIWYG. Gough is the past chair of the Glynn Republican party so there’s that as well. Tucker & Gough are, sadly, both UGA law grads (Jackie too). As a Mercer law grad (you can’t spell undergrad without UGA), that sad fact tickles me to no end. Apparently getting into UGA law was the hard part. Learning something, well…

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      • Got Cowdog

        I finally got to watch the whole interview. “Don’t trust your soul to some backwoods southern lawyer” ? No shit….
        Bowl haircut man has cut a deal, I believe.

        Liked by 1 person

  3. 3rdandGrantham

    Good hell, that lawyer should do some serious reflecting on his own intelligence for making a public statement like that. I mean, he probably is right and all, but still. With that said, sadly public schools across the south are pathetically behind most of the rest of the country, and it’s one of the reasons why we left GA some years back. As a native Georgian, trust me it pains me to say this.

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    • Derek

      You think poor folks deserve an education?!?!?

      The rich folks are fine over at the private school. That’s what matters.

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      • Gurkha Dawg

        Yeah, my kids all went to private school. It cost more than UGA, but they got an excellent education. The 2 in college say college is a breeze compared to high school.

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        • Derek

          If you got rid of taxpayer subsidies then you could pay more for UGA! You’d also get rid of a lot of those GDI’s and other lesser types.

          If poor folks can’t get a decent HS education why should we help them get a college education? Unless they can play football of course.

          Liked by 1 person

          • You’re way off base when it comes to education. I know you are a government-first communist, so protecting a failing public boondoggle is in your blood. The real reason “poor” kids can’t get a good education is because the public school system removes the responsibility for a family to educate their children. It has never been more apparent than during
            the quarantine. Education is most effective when families are invested in the outcome. It doesn’t take a six-figure salary to be invested in the education of your child. It takes care and concern. The kids with parents that give a crap about them generally do well, no matter what strata of the socioeconomic ladder they reside. The parents that think it is the school’s job to educate/babysit their children get very little out of the nearly $15K of public money per year we spend educating a child in many counties in the state of Georgia.

            My kids go to private school, and I spend much less than the per-student amounts in the surrounding counties and get a better education. It’s not because the teachers are paid more (they are not; they are paid less). It’s not because they are all white or rich (they are not; we have minority students and administrators) or whatever red herring you want to prop up to try to dispute a point you know nothing a bout. In fact, not all private school students are successful, and it’s because those children’s parents are not really invested in their kids’ education. They think because they stroke a check to a private school that their job is done, and they aren’t truly impacting their kids any more than if they sent them to the local schools.

            On the other hand, I grew up in a broken home, with a single, teenage mother that cared enough about me to make sure I had what I needed to succeed. I went to public school K-12, and I was the first of my extended family to graduate college. It’s not about the economics as much as it is about the parent(s) giving a crap about their kids, and there are mounds of empirical evidence to support it if you (the royal you) actually cared about education instead of using it as a political bludgeon.

            Liked by 3 people

            • Derek

              I’m from a similar socio-economic background. I’m glad that I had decent government run schools to go to. Would have been fucked without them.

              Its disappointing for me to hear that the public schools have gotten worse and that people don’t give a fuck.

              Poor kids from single parent homes should have the possibility of success. Even if their parents aren’t the best.

              You’ll need decent government schools to give poor but smart talented kids with good, average and shitty parents a chance.

              But i know you’re too much of a nazi to understand this.

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              • The problem in today’s public school system (I’m a product of a South Georgia county school system) is that the bureaucracy doesn’t want change. Anytime someone comes up with an idea to innovate or introduce alternatives, the bureaucrats and the teachers’ unions say no. If the bureaucrats could shutter independent schools, charter schools and homeschooling, they would do it in a heartbeat. It should say something that public school educators and bureaucrats who can afford it send their kids to private schools. It should speak volumes that the politicians who defend the status quo including the teachers’ unions tend to send their kids to private schools.

                I pay my property taxes to have good public schools not just in my neighborhood but across my county. We definitely should be providing a sound education to all, but the question is whether the delivery model is working.

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                • Derek

                  Its clearly not working. Historically speaking I think the decline can be traced to Brown in 1955.

                  Before that public schools (for white kids anyway) were a priority for society. As a substantial number of parents moved their kids to all white private schools or “Christian Academies” to avoid having their kids going to school with “those people” the importance of a functioning public school system has waned in the minds of far too many.

                  The only places with decent public schools are wealthy white suburbs. Poor urban and rural areas are fucked because no one cares about whether they succeed.

                  I find this to be unfortunate and not fixable by market forces but by people of good will who understand that it is better for all of us if people from every background go to safe, functioning schools where kids who can and want to learn can.

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                • gastr1

                  My kid has done nothing but go to public schools. The private schools where I live are overpriced “Gucci” bullshit. Want to know what you have to do if your kid is smart enough to take calculus in high school here? You have to send them to a PUBLIC school. Want to know here all the National Merit Scholars are here? In PUBLIC school.

                  And yet Charles Koch lives right in town! How did he ever let himself get outcompeted like this? (Yes, he pretty much had the most gucci BS private school in town built for his own kids. It’s almost across the street from his property.)

                  The rationales above for the “failing” public schools are laughable. You’ve all bought into the Republican/ALEC playbook of convincing everyone they must be failing so that the parents of would-be achievers take their kids out…leaving only the “left-behind failure” types. Like my kid, who will kick your kid’s ass in most things academic. Not all public schools, folks…and definitely not all private schools.

                  Here’s another point: the really rural people in this country, the REALLY rural ones, support public school improvement politically and actually. Why is that? Because they don’t have any private options in the most rural parts of this country. “Running on a message of stabilizing the state education budget and other public services hurt by the economic chaos of the Brownback years, Kelly rejected the idea that the election was a referendum on Trump.” And she won. https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-kansas-governor-20181106-story.html

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                • Classic City Canine

                  ee, It’s so much more complex than bureaucrats and teacher unions (which don’t exist in Georgia). Like you said, it’s parents that don’t give a s—. There’s an entire education industrial complex ready to sell you on the latest program to fix your school and plenty of schools have tried these things only to find that the consultant was a waste of money. It’s not that schools won’t change. It’s that they can’t solve the fundamental problem of poverty and parents that aren’t invested.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • CCC, I agree it’s a ton more complex. Parental involvement is huge to creating positive education outcomes. The fact that my parents expected my sisters and me to do our best in school was the primary driver of success. Even poverty can be overcome with a home life (parents, grandparents, extended family, mentors, etc.) that considers education to be important (and that cuts across all demographics).

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                • Bigshot

                  One of the biggest myths perpetuated on mankind. It’s the teacher’s unions fault. Georgia doesn’t have teacher unions.

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                • I’m talking nationally. Georgia educators don’t have a union with the ability for collective bargaining. The Georgia Association of Educators pretty much do everything else for Georgia educators locally that the National Education Association does nationally (the GAE is a partner of the NEA).

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            • Post of the day … way to go, cpa.

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            • Greg

              It all starts from home…

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              • Derek

                I know a successful lawyer who was raised in foster homes and orphanages.

                Always thought it was terrible that I was burdened with those costs, educational and otherwise.

                Socialism sucks!

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            • SpellDawg

              “It doesn’t take a six-figure salary to be invested in the education of your child. It takes care and concern.” – whatever man. I grew up with a single mom and siblings, she was working 3 jobs much of my childhood just to make ends meet. We were latch-key kids, I saw her for dinner & breakfast for years. I guess she didn’t care or concern herself enough to add our education to her plate.

              Also, especially if your private school has a religious affiliation, it’s apples to oranges comparing the costs. Endowments, donations and the like defray the tuition fee you pay.

              Liked by 1 person

            • MGW

              Let me get this straight: public education is a mere failed political boondoggle, and even within that laughable system, if a parent has a child who doesn’t succeed, it means they just didn’t love the child enough. Did I get that right?

              “It’s so simple, what’s wrong with these people?!? All my mom had to do was give a shit and I turned out great!”

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              • if a parent has a child who doesn’t succeed, it means they just didn’t love the child enough. Did I get that right?

                Based on my personal experience, based on my experience working with low income people in the community as my job for the last 15 years, and based on my wife’s experience working in a Title I school district, I can tell you that parental involvement is the most important factor in a child learning at the expected/appropriate level… even more than the benefit of a two parent household, even more than socioeconomic status, even more than the “quality” of teachers, and regardless of whether the parents actually speak/read/write english.

                Being involved can mean different things for different circumstances. Above, I imagine SpellDawg stopped reading before commenting, but being a latchkey kid myself at 6, I know what it is like to be on my own quite a bit. Self determination had something to do with my success, sure, but my mom taught me a respect for education and encouraged me in it and held me accountable for it. Others poured into me as well, and I owe a lot to the various teachers I had throughout my education career. A mom that works three jobs can do the same. I’ve seen it. The moms that are willing to work three jobs are usually the ones that are most invested in their kids at school. They make sure they get to school on time for the free breakfast, they are checking to make sure homework is done, they find a way to meet with the teacher when there are conferences, they find a way to do what needs to be done. Their kids see it and learn that not only is education important, but successful people do what needs to be done. Those kids have a better shot than their peers 100% of the time. It doesn’t mean all will be successful, but given the same opportunities in any school (public or private), they will usually fare better than their classmates.

                The kids who have the most trouble have terrible home lives where there is no accountability for anything they do. The parents are more inconvenienced by their existence than actually care about their kids. There is often abuse and/or neglect. They are exposed to things of a maturity level far above what is appropriate for their age. When there are issues at school, it is always the teacher’s fault. There is no stability, no discipline, and no accountability. Those kids have a major uphill battle to become successful. The schools that house these kids have an uphill battle because there is nothing they can do to hold the kids or parents accountable for disruptions, misbehavior, etc.

                So to answer your question, no, a child who doesn’t succeed doesn’t necessarily mean the parents didn’t love the child enough. However, if you show me a successful student from an impoverished upbringing, I’d wager 99% of the time they come from a home that cared enough to instill discipline, accountability, and valued education… even if the parent(s) weren’t around all the time.

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                • SpellDawg

                  No, I read your whole post, and it’s quotes like, “the public school system removes the responsibility for a family to educate their children” that are offensive AF. Sure, we grew up similar, sure I’ve sent my kids to $15k a year private school, and guess what? My wife is also a public school teacher that has worked in a TITLE I school for years, too.

                  I agree that parent involvement is critical, but your pot shot at the public school system is without merit and your unqualified statements about parents “caring enough” comes off as elitist. I assure you my mom “cared” enough, countless low income parents “care” enough, but if they doubled-over chasing crumbs 12 hours a day in our capitalist paradise, what they can instill is mostly threadbare discipline and order. I was hell on wheels starting in the 7th grade, sneaking out of the house at will most nights and skipping school constantly because no one was home to stop me. Like ol’ Merle said, “Mama tried, but her pleading, I denied.”

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            • Argondawg

              Great post CPA. My wife teaching in a economically challenged district her whole career would concur. Actually even more so in this digital learning curve we are in. The kids whose parents don’t care don’t care either.

              Really Derek? The historical ignorance of using Nazi here makes you look like an ignorant dipshit. The constant misuse of Nazi is nauseating to me. You are just not that smart. Your just adamant, obnoxious and loud. I agree with your take on something’s but loathe your delivery so much I usually just skip your posts. I hope you save your extreme narcissism for this board but I surely wouldn’t bet on that.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Derek

                Hey dipshit. He called me a communist. Its called a “reply in kind.” Keep up!

                Extreme narcissism? Hmmmm…. Maybe Ill run for the GOP nomination in 2024!!

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                • Classic City Canine

                  What is your major malfunction? Either someone didn’t teach you how to have a decent respectful conversation, or you’re just that big of an anonymous douche that you don’t care.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  Isn’t obvious that I care deeply? I care about people’s feelings. I care about making friends. I just really want to get along with everyone. My most basic desire is to be a mediocre milquetoast conformist lacking in the ability to have or express any independent thought that might distinguish me from the herd and lead to my ostracization.

                  Am I doing it wrong?

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  The measure of one’s intellect is how much of an asshole one is. You fucking adults don’t get it.

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Derek’s not a communist. He’s a democratic socialist. There’s a difference, you fucking fuckers.

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            • Minnesota Dawg

              Part of the disconnect between the many sides of the education debate have to do with different expectations that people have with respect to education. Do schools exist to educate children or do schools exist to raise children? Traditionally, schools were created and designed (and teachers are trained) to do the former…but over the years, they are now too often expected to do the latter.

              “Poor” schools are often burdened with having to provide every meaningful aspect of childrearing, including providing food, shelter, acting as only adult role models, responsible authority figures, providing social, mental, and physical support and protection, providing basic moral and ethical guidelines and discipline, teaching fundamental lessons on how to behave in society, etc. Then, on top of that, they are ALSO expected to provide an academic education to their students, in addition to being surrogate parents. And they are expected to do such with one hand tied behind their backs due to the limitations and scrutiny that practically, necessarily, and/or legally exist between schools and students.

              And we wonder why some schools are “bad”. Until we are able to have an honest conversation about why certain populations of children are failing to receive a basic education in our country and are unprepared to be responsible and contributing members of society upon reaching adulthood, then we will continue to point fingers in the wrong direction.

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      • Not all folks enrolled at private schools are “rich”, just in search of a better form of education, government run education doesn’t lead to a better education….

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      • Napoleon BonerFart

        Schools are so bad these days we should put the government in charge of them.

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    • Louisiana public schools make Georgia public schools look Ive League. We’re dead last all the categories you do not want to be dead last in.

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    • Gaskilldawg

      He will realize how foolish it was when he has his next Glynn Superior Court jury trial and he figures out that his outcome is in the hands of a bunch of Glynn public schools grads who know he called them ignorant.

      Liked by 1 person

    • jtp03

      He’s probably right?!? That mouthbreathing shitstain should have learned not to be a murderer in (checks notes) a shitty school system??

      jfc

      Like

  4. AthenSHomerDawg

    For some reason the the Kemp ref reminded me of Pulpwood Smith and when he ran “amok” Against Alabama. I wish we could have had him for another year!!!

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  5. Hogbody Spradlin

    Oh goody! It’s Ahmaud Arbery day on Get the Picture.

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    • Yep. This should get ugly pretty quick.

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      • tenesseewasnevergreat

        Are we expecting a large gathering of people to support one’s right to round up a posse and chase down miscreants in their trucks?

        In all seriousness, the entire situation is incredibly sad. Regardless of whether Arbery was the one who had broken into that guy’s truck and was seen snooping around the neighbor’s unsecured house, these assholes thought it would be a good idea to make a citizen’s arrest of a jogger miles from his house when there was plenty of time to wait for the police. That decision snowballed into a life or death struggle that left a man dead and will cost the others their liberty. Who knows if they are racist, but they are certainly reckless idiots who cost a man his life.

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        • I expected some comments since this thing exploded in the national news and has, as usual, caused members of each tribe to take sides, but it looks like I was wrong. Weird.

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          • What will get ugly (nationally) is should a mistrial occur because the the prosecutor/state is seeking a murder conviction versus a man slaughter conviction (voluntary or other)

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            • Dylan Dreyer's Booty

              No. Last time I checked he can be charged with all of those and the jury gets to pick which, if any, they can agree upon. They might not get charged with all possible crimes, because the prosecutor knows they can only be convicted of one of the included offenses, and as a matter of strategy the DA may not want to give the jury a chance to sell out on a lesser included offense. A jury could convict on all the charges, but they can only be sentenced for one.

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        • MGW

          You’ve basically just spelled out what might be their only viable defense at trial.

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        • Dylan Dreyer's Booty

          Hunting out of season?

          It’s amazing at how much actual video there is for any position you want to take, but I have yet to hear an argument that justifies the killing. It doesn’t matter if he went a house under construction (by the way, as kid in the 60s living in a new subdivision, we all went in houses under construction, mostly to get empty Coke bottles for the redemption $, yeah that’s how old I am 🙂 I never had any idea I could have been shot for it). It doesn’t matter because there was no self-defense involved – he was leaving in any case. Same thing for defense of property. They couldn’t stand their ground because they had to chase him. Just pitiful.

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          • It’s not my position… it’s the perception nationally, don’t need any kind of mistrial due to a judicial/strategy fuck up, loss of life is tragic, those responsible should serve time according to the laws of the state of georgia

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          • tenesseewasnevergreat

            There is an argument that justifies the killing, but you have to ignore the bad decision made by the shooter leading up to the encounter. If you just watch the video, Arbery runs past the truck and takes a hard left towards the man holding the shotgun. If you forget everything leading up to that point and just imagine someone standing in the road with a gun in their hands, it is self defense to pull the trigger. You could also look back and ask why Arbery made that hard left and put himself in a fight to the death with the shooter, and maybe he shouldn’t have charged headlong into a shotgun, but he did not create the situation that left him with the choice of trying to take the gun away, running, or waiting for the police (who maybe wouldn’t have minded seeing him shot). He made a split second decision, and maybe he chose poorly, but everything goes back to the gunmens’ decision to make a citizens arrest and chase a person they thought had committed a crime days or weeks earlier.

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    • TBH, there are several lawyer types that comment here and I’ll be interested to hear what they have to say. I posted about the shooting last week and have been following this as closely as the media will allow. The original DA has some interview comments available finally.

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      • Normaltown Mike

        I never practiced Crim Law and barely remember the classes I took in that area, but a couple things come to mind and give me concern. The concern is that if the DA overcharges or mishandles the charges and evidence, you’ll see a hung jury or possible an acquittal, which would be explosive for that community and possibly nationwide.

        Here are the issues I would watch for:
        (1) The media has described this as a “cold blooded” murder. To me, it appears a classic “hot blooded” murder. The cold blooded is associated w/ a Def that is “lying in wait”. The hot blooded is associated w/ a crime of passion or sudden strong impulse. If the DA goes for the former, a jury can reasonably determine these guys were not lying in wait but confronted the victim and things went out of control (and thus not guilty of the charges)
        (2) The DA could opt for a safer felony murder route – the defendant committed a felony and a death occurred that would not have occurred otherwise. The issue here is what felony to charge them with and do you charge both? Assault is the obvious layup charge. In the commission of this assault, the victim died and thus a felony murder. Kidnapping is the more serious charge but also more fraught (for the DA to mishandle) as the defense attorney will put the victim’s criminal history before the jury and make the argument that the defendant was attempting to arrest, not kidnap.

        (3) The DA will try to charge father and son with the same charges. From the DA’s side, they are trying to get leverage on the father to convince son that they should both enter a plea. The problem is that the actions of the father and son are quite different. While both pursued the victim (not a crime) the son made the horrible choice of brandishing his weapon and blocking the path of the victim. The father did pull his pistol and jump on the truck, but his lawyer will argue the victim was unaware that he did so (as he was fighting for his life with the son). My big assumption here is that the father never fired his gun…disregard if that’s incorrect.

        Among the many horrible decisions made, the most critical was when the son “brought a gun to a fistfight” . I’m not a gun owner but I know well enough that you don’t pull out a deadly weapon unless you’re willing to use it…and face the consequences.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I’d wait to see what the feds do. If they take it, then you’ve got federal hate crime laws in the mix.

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        • Good info Mike and thanks. I posted in another comment that I don’t think they intended to kill him and your comment about junior bringing a gun to a fistfight is dead on. Daddy shitbird is the real culprit here as it appears to be he that organized the posse, so to speak. If the defense can prove that son didn’t intend to kill he could end up with manslaughter, maybe? If that’s the case, the Daddy would be charged with what, exactly? Being stupid?
          I don’t want to imagine the possible affect that judgment would have on an already racially charged issue. A lot of innocent people got hurt when the Rodney King verdict sparked the LA riots. I’m hoping like hell that doesn’t happen here.
          Senator, if the feds decide to bring hate crime charges, how would that play in?

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          • tenesseewasnevergreat

            Well, they’d get to bring in any evidence they find that the guys were racists. Even if they did not set this whole thing up just because they wanted to shoot a black man, it would be devastating for everyone if these guys were sitting around on hate group message boards all day. At that point, the question is whether it’s a hate crime if a racist kills someone who happens to be of another race, even if race wasn’t the primary reason for the act. Is it more illegal for racists to kill than for non-racists to kill? The only reason a hate crime should be brought into this is if there is evidence to believe that their racism was a driving force in the act. Otherwise, we are making racist thoughts and words a felony in themselves. As despicable as racism is, I don’t think racist beliefs alone warrant jail time. Acting on those beliefs is a different story.

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            • … it would be devastating for everyone if these guys were sitting around on hate group message boards all day.

              FWIW, I’m told from someone who claims to have seen it that they were indeed posting that kind of stuff in a private Facebook group.

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    • Napoleon BonerFart

      Jogger lost his battle against Covid-19.

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  6. Hogbody Spradlin

    The Hale Almand thing brought back a memory that makes me smile. I swear I saw a bumper sticker that said:
    “Elect Jan Kemp Next Teacher in Space!”

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  7. I mean…. I knokw it’s wrong to judge on appearance (haircut) and all, but if he’s going for an “I’m an idiot” defense, he’s off to a smashing start.

    Liked by 1 person

    • 3rdandGrantham

      Call me an evil person, but I don’t think it’s wrong to judge by appearance whatsoever, and all of us do it all the time.

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      • You are right. We can’t help but judge by appearance. It’s how we’re wired as humans. I try to fight the impulse, though. Especially when it comes to people who are obviously less well-off.

        For instance, I think about it this way — I don’t judge someone based on them driving an old beat up car. But I feel absolutely free to judge someone who’s driving a brand new BMW and have a lap dog sitting in the front seat.

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      • Derek

        I wouldn’t call it “evil” but it is the instinct that leads to implicit bias. If we don’t recognize that our internal “discriminator” is a poorly functioning product of nature, we’ll never have the egalitarian society we all deserve.

        If i was judged by the way i looked, you’d think i was a MAGAt. You said something recently that conservatives drive ford pick ups. Well, I drive a ford pick up.

        While our biases may often be right, the problem is that they are so often wrong. We gain little when they are right and lose a lot when they miss.

        For example, does anyone think that had the races been reversed in the Arbery case that the shooters go home? Same decision makers. Same facts. Same law. Totally different result.

        Do the shooters act the same way had a white guy been jogging by? I’m thinking “no.”

        Evil? Maybe not, but it ain’t right.

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        • Classic City Canine

          See, now why can’t you post this kind of reasonable thought all the time?

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        • tenesseewasnevergreat

          Does anyone think that had the races been reversed in the Arbery case that the shooters go home? Same decision makers. Same facts. Same law. Totally different result.

          Maybe?

          Do the shooters act the same way had a white guy been jogging by? I’m thinking “no.”

          That is the big question here. How can we ever know? I know that the impulse is to string these guys up as klan members, but I’m worried about jumping to that conclusion for all of the reasons you talked about the danger of biases above.

          Like

          • Derek

            The first time a black citizen goes home after shooting an unarmed white citizen in public, please let us all know.

            Like

        • Pirate

          What about when protesters in Ferguson burn it down .what happened.?

          Like

  8. Gurkha Dawg

    Senator, you got something against garbage men? When I was a kid, I wanted to be a garbage man. I thought those black guys were so cool spinning those big metal barrels down the street with one hand. Now those metal barrels have been replaced by a big robot arm. But seriously, there is nothing wrong with any honest work. Your comments about garbage men sound elitist and racist.

    Like

    • I thought it was a post about lawyers.

      Like

    • mddawg

      I swear I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Gurkha Dawg

        This is going to be a good playpen, I’ve never been called a snowflake before. I think even Derek will come to my defense on that one. I was just fucking with the Senator, I don’t think he is elitist or racist. However I did want to be a garbage man when I was little kid and I do believe that there is nothing wrong with any honest work.

        Like

        • Derek

          Should the University of Georgia seek to produce garbage men from the members of its student body? If UGA accepted a student who ended up as a garbage man, should it point to that as a success? Are you too stupid to understand what we’re talking about?

          Like

          • Gurkha Dawg

            I don’t judge or look down on anyone for the way they make a living, just so it’s honest work. You seem to have great disdain for garbage men. That’s somewhat surprising, coming from a lefty like you. I guess we are seeing what you really think of people who you think are beneath you.

            Like

            • Derek

              The point

              Gurkha

              Like

              • Derek

                There was supposed to be more open space there.

                If a medical school produced insurance salesman, it wouldn’t speak much for the med school.

                This is the point. You’re missing it.

                Like

                • Gurkha Dawg

                  I get your point, Derek. I just object to using the term “garbage man” as a euphemism for “that guy is a total failure and fuck up”.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  Wouldn’t disagree at all. The vast majority of people in this country wake up everyday and work shitty, unfulfilling, unrewarding jobs.

                  It would be nice if they were able to have some rational hope that their children would have the opportunity to improve upon that.

                  Like

                • RangerRuss

                  FUCK WORK !!!

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Why should students be judged on their employment prospects? Isn’t an education for personal fulfillment an admirable goal? What’s wrong with going $120k in debt for a gender studies degree? Those loans should be forgiven by the government anyway.
                  #MarketFailure

                  Like

        • Grafton

          And I was fucking with you.

          Like

        • Jdawg108

          My buddy used to want to be a garbage man. We’d be playing to be doctors or astronauts or snipers (seriously) and that kid would be making a mess out of his toys everywhere so he could then clean it up. He’d even make the beeping noise on his bike while backing up. Nothing wrong with that aspiration.

          Like

          • Ho hummmm (big yawn)

            Up in the morning, just about 4,
            I put on my shoes and I’m out the door.
            Life is such a terrible bore….I’m a garbageman.

            Ridin on the garbage truck with my friend, Lou,
            He says “Say, baby, you lookin kinda blue!”
            “yeah, man, don’t this job ever get to you?
            I mean all this garbage!”

            (Oh no baby!)

            He said “Hold on Jim, I got just the thing you need!
            Here, baby, take a puff of this funny lookin’ little weed.
            Go on, man, smoke it, the first one’s free!”

            Oh well thank you!

            Well the sun was risin, shinin in the sky
            Garbage truck was drawin flies
            I didn’t care, I was ridin high
            I was out of it, stoned, swino, wasted

            Well, everything’s cool now, nothing’s wrong.
            Garbage stinks, but I float along
            Singin this happy, happy song –
            Pot’s too good to be just for the young!

            Like

          • MGW

            You’d think nobody here every saw Men at Work. Being a garbage man is rad as hell!

            Liked by 1 person

  9. stoopnagle

    14%

    Like

  10. mddawg

    My wife and I are currently wrestling with some school decisions. It’s probably a bit premature, as our daughter is only a year and a half old. But if we want to put her in one of the better public school districts in our area (Maryland/Virginia) it would require us to move to an area where housing costs are higher. Or we could stay where we are and put her in a private school, but that’s expensive in its own right. I guess we just have to figure out which expense we’re able and willing to live with.

    Like

    • Gurkha Dawg

      Finding the right school for your child is one of the most important things you can do as a parent. Private school is very expensive, but if I had to, I would have lived in a tent in order to afford to send my children to their private school. One of the big advantages is the peer group. The really bad kids are quickly removed from a private school. Public schools don’t have that luxury. I envy you , the next few years are gonna be a blast.

      Like

      • Charlottedawg

        I think school is helpful for development at younger ages but the cynical side of me thinks education has now simply turned into an arms race of branding. Exclusive (with well paying entry level jobs that are the feeder system to even more exclusive better paying jobs) employers like to recruit from ivy league schools (because they’re exclusive which means the candidate pool is better than say UGA) who likes to recruit from exclusive private high schools. This means that the value of the education isn’t what the student learns in the classroom but how the institution puts a societally accepted stamp of prestige by virtue of it’s exclusivity. It’s not that Harvard provides a great education per se, it’s that from the employer’s perspective recruiting at Harvard means the kids you’re interviewing must be smart and we’ll connected by virtue of the fact they got into Harvard. Sad commentary on the current state of affairs and a big driver of income inequality and ever decreasing ability for the poor and middle class to move up the socio economic ladder. I’ll get off my soap box now.

        Like

        • Classic City Canine

          Agreed. Spot on in fact. It’s why all those movie stars tried to bribe their kids into prestigious schools. Personally, I think businesses that adopt a strategy of only recruiting a certain set of schools or requiring college degrees for every job are the real problem. That’s a really poor way to filter candidates for most jobs.

          Like

    • Charlottedawg

      Sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Live in the metro Baltimore area and have a kid similar in age. All of my co-workers and neighbors are basically like, just concede you’ll have to pay for private school lol. And yes, you can pretty much guess which public school districts are the best just by looking at home prices.

      Like

      • mddawg

        I live in Beltsville, just south of Laurel. Maybe when the lockdown is over we can get our kids together for a play date and commiserate over the costs of education, housing, etc.

        Like

    • Long rambling reply here…My wife and I have four kids, ages 7, 5, 3, and 8mos.

      7yo and 5yo are homeschooling. Seems to be working out pretty well so far.

      Note my wife and I have chosen a much smaller household income in order for my wife to stay home and do this. She’s worth much more than me in the market place, so living on my income alone easily means a 50-60% cut to our potential household earnings. We drive older cars (1998 Ford Econoline and 2009 Hyundai), live in an old house with ugly kitchen, bathrooms, etc. But we’re very happy with the choices we’ve made.

      But living on my income only means savings in other ways (childcare, for instance). And it means she has more time to volunteer for non-profit (ESL school) work that she really loves.

      Obviously not for everyone, but worth giving it a thought if one of you is willing to stay home and teach the kids. Note, my wife was homeschooled all 12 years, and went on to earn to BS degrees and an MS in mechanical engineering. So she’s pretty confident she knows what she’s doing.

      Honestly, her biggest challenge is finding/providing activities for the kids when they’re not “in school”. They only do school work 2-3 hours in a day. The rest is structured play-time or free-learning type stuff. She gives them old appliances to take apart, scrap wood and stuff to build things with. A lot easier now that the weather is nicer and she can just send them outside.

      I provide some “teaching” on the weekends. Hands-on stuff, letting them help me work in the yard, or fix stuff around the house.

      Liked by 2 people

      • PTC DAWG

        4 kids…Bless You..prepare to be broke when they hit College Age.

        I also hope you have a padded headboard. 🙂

        Like

        • My wife and I both graduated college with no debt whatsoever. And our parent’s paid zero $ toward our room/board and tuition. My parents would occasionally pay for books.

          You just have to be creative. And refuse to pay for your kids to, say, get a BA in French from a private university. Encourage them to do their Freshman and possibly Sophomore years at community college.

          It’s called being smart and not mortgaging your future.

          Like

          • PTC DAWG

            Honestly, I was just messing with you…good luck to you and your Family.

            I thought the padded headboard comment gave it away.

            Like

            • I hope I didn’t come across as cranky. Was just yapping and reacting to the “college will break you” meme that gets tiring. In my mind it’s like the parents who say things like, “all my toddler will eat is chicken nuggets from McDonald’s”. Say what?

              Like

        • Classic City Canine

          Who says they have to go to college? There are other paths to success besides a 4+ year degree.

          Like

          • Man, I totally agree with you. But, unfortunately, it seems like these days there are SO many jobs that employers won’t even consider you for if you don’t have a degree — regardless of whether or not it actually helps you in the job. That’s why I went back to school at age 26 to finish my B.A. Didn’t graduate until I was 30. I was looking to make a career change and found that most employers wouldn’t look at me because I had a GED. Didn’t matter that a had a proven track record of leading teams and completing complex projects (ahead of schedule!).

            Like

    • FiffRaff

      Manassas Park would be perfect for your daughter…………..just kidding.

      Like

    • Pirate

      Mddawg it sounds like your daughter is going to be just find because she is very fortunate that she has 2 parents that would lay it on the line for her. Just my 2 cents stay and put her in a Christian School. I was lucky enough to go for 13 years and I have folks I’ve not seen in 20 years or more. I call em on the phone during this shit and it’s like I’ve not seen em in a week. God Bless brother.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. tbia

    OK, for a little playpen banter around football.

    Opening week, PAC-12 is looking like they are the conference most likely not to tee em up. The President of UVa didn’t seem so gung ho about the Cavs cranking it up.

    Suppose both of those happen, and we are gameless on the first weekend. Looking at teams that play pac 10s, Michigan would lose a game….

    any chance?

    Like

    • Paul

      California announced their universities will not be opened this fall. So, I guess the PAC-12 is screwed.

      Like

      • California State University System announced that almost all classes will be conducted online.

        Cal and UCLA are not part of that system and USC and Stanford are private schools, so that doesn’t affect the Pac-12.

        Like

        • Paul

          Have they announced their plans yet? Do you think they will be willing to open? I just assumed the others would follow suit.

          Like

          • They haven’t, but the person to watch here is the governor.

            Like

            • WIll (the other one)

              Los Angeles is going to be a problem area:
              I believe close to half the cases in the state are there and residents basically earned more time in time out after really not honoring social distancing when the beaches opened up.

              Like

    • AlphaDawg

      The PAC 12 not opening would be a good use of the transfer portal for an aggressive coach.

      Like

    • Came here for this. How do they even practice to get to online schooling? LA county shut down through August.

      Like

  12. Derek

    Its good to know they’ll be safe:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/487325-fox-news-limiting-staff-in-office-amid-coronavirus-crisis

    If they get sick and die they won’t be able to lie to us anymore about that practically harmless, china lab produced virus.

    We should just go about our business and not worry about the Chinese germ warfare conspiracy.

    If one were capable of thought one might see those two things as completely inconsistent with each other.

    Like

    • tenesseewasnevergreat

      I’m not sure why you are so convinced that the escaped from a lab theory is incorrect or intentionally false. Do you not believe that the level IV lab in Wuhan China has been intensively studying coronaviruses in bats or is it that you can’t imagine that a person working in such lab could ever fail to adhere to the security protocols? I mean, you have the lab studying a new virus in the epicenter of where the virus first emerged. That seems like the place to start looking for answers to me. I suppose we should just take the Chinese Communist Party at their word, though. Aside from the fact that they made all of their doctors sounding the coronovirus alarm disappear, they have been nothing but helpful in this crisis.

      Liked by 2 people

      • tbia

        It could not happen because the workers there were all trained in public schools.

        Is that how we do this?

        Liked by 4 people

      • AlphaDawg

        Well Gov. Cuomo seems to think the virus came from Europe so there is that route too?

        Like

      • Derek

        I’m saying that:

        “Its harmless”

        “Its a biological weapon”

        are inconsistent statements.

        Literate people would have noticed that.

        Liked by 1 person

      • First, it doesn’t have the main structure of any viral “backbone” used in previous research involving “reverse genetic engineering” that’s been ongoing in an effort to study the human transmissibility of bat coronaviruses ever since the original SARS-CoV pandemic of 2002-2003. Instead, the novel virus is 97% similar to a known naturally-occurring bat coronavirus called BatCoV RaTG13.3

        Second, SARS-CoV-2 has a “spike protein” with a “receptor binding domain” (the part that attaches to human cells and allows it to get inside them) that doesn’t match up with human cell receptors as well as SARS-CoV does. So in other words, if scientists deliberately created SARS-CoV-2’s spike protein, they made it less infectious to humans compared to what was already available. If that’s the case, it would be like a burglar who already had a working key but instead tried to open a door by making a lock-pick that didn’t fit as well.

        Like

        • tenesseewasnevergreat

          Well, if everyone knew you had the key, but you still wanted to burglarize the place, maybe it would be a good idea to pick the lock? I don’t believe this, but I can’t help but point out the hole in your conclusion.

          Like

          • “well, if everyone knew”
            Does everyone know? Do you know? Of course you don’t. But until you learn some critical thinking skills you will always be working on assumption.

            Like

        • Gurkha Dawg

          Grafton, are you saying that 2 sets of DNA that are 97% similar are very nearly the same? If I remember my genetics correctly ( it’s been 30 years), human and chimpanzee DNA are over 98% similar. In the case of Derek the strands are 100% similar. Are you saying there is virtually no difference between humans and chimpanzees?

          Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        The stunning and brave government China has assured us that they’re not responsible. To doubt the official sorry would be racist.
        So if you believe that China is responsible, you’re a Nazi.

        Like

  13. FlyingPeakDawg

    Well, at least with public healthcare we wouldn’t need to worry that wealthy districts offer better services than poor districts, inner cities will only attract less qualified staff, administrations will be bloated, or a private system will develop for those who can afford it. And even if it does, generations of politicians will throw money at the problems to fix it. But if it does fail, Lawyers will be able to effectively use the “he was born dumb in the hospital” defense.

    Didn’t think I’d tie all that together, did ya?

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Derek

    It should be considered some degree of societal progress that nobody, outside of a couple biased DA’s, seems to be defending the actions of the folks who shot Arbery. I actually thought we’d see some degree of apologizing for them here and elsewhere.

    Like

    • tenesseewasnevergreat

      I wonder if that has anything to do with your own biases.

      Like

    • Based on the original DA’s interview, She immediately reused without making any statement or viewing any evidence. It’s the Glynn County PD’s word against hers that she gave orders that no arrests be made. I think her mistake was not sending it to the state, instead passing it on to another county level DA.
      Couldn’t be that the Glynn County PD doesn’t cotton to a lady DA meddling in their business could it?

      Like

      • Paul

        Actually the opposite. The DA made her career protecting the police. Look up the Caroline Small case. Look up Robert C. Sasser. Those cases are far worse than this one. She made sure nobody got in trouble. More recently, the Glynn County chief of police and three former officers were indicted last week on charges not related to this case. It’s been a corrupt organization for a long time.

        Like

        • I was under the impression that she was the whistleblower in the Caroline Small case. I also thought she was the one who suspended the COP and some shady Narcotic Officers.

          Like

        • Hoo boy. I looked Caroline Small up. Looks like I did have it backwards.

          Like

          • Silver Creek Dawg

            Jackie is very much a cop-friendly DA. So is Barnhill, the Ware County DA that got the case after Johnson. I knew both of them when I lived down there.

            I met the father; he’s a dirtbag. Little to no doubt in my mind he set out to provoke a confrontation with Arbery,

            Like

  15. Geezus

    You know, after watching Ozark on Netflix, I totally see why Mizzou was invited into the SEC …

    Like

    • Paul

      I actually had to stop watching Ozark. It was a little too twisted for my tastes. Though I did watch Justified and Peaky Blinders.

      Like

  16. Milton Dawg

    When I saw that attorney’s argument about his clients, I was instantly reminded of one of my partners’ first cases out of law school in the 1970s. It was a criminal case against a client of our firm for DUI. The client’s own statements to the police upon being arrested were that he had had “8 to 10” beers over an afternoon. Now, the population of our county at that time was relatively small so the jury was made up of people that either knew, knew of, or knew someone that knew the defendant. So while the prosecutor hinged his case on the admission of drinking 8 to 10 beers, my partner hinged his defense on his client being, in fact, a known alcoholic that drank much more than that on a daily basis. After several witnesses testified to seeing the defendant drink that much and more on a regular basis and remaining seemingly unaffected, the jury wound up acquitting him of DUI. Very different times.

    Like

  17. josh hancher

    Ummmm. I’m gonna get lit up. But, pretty sure Public Schools aren’t the only place that teach “right” and “wrong”. I’d be questioning what the churches and parents are teaching down there.

    I don’t care if he ripped every bit of copper out of that house and was running down the street with it. There is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR A “CITIZENS ARREST” ending in an unarmed man shot dead in the street in broad daylight.

    Are you kidding me? THE SCHOOL SYSTEM?!!

    Like

    • I don’t care if he ripped every bit of copper out of that house and was running down the street with it. There is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR A “CITIZENS ARREST” ending in an unarmed man shot dead in the street in broad daylight.

      The inevitable “he was no church boy” bullshit from the usual suspects is what what makes me the most upset about these situations. It doesn’t matter what you did 5 years ago or if you even robbed that entire house 5 minutes before. No person has the right (God or Constitutionally granted) to be judge, jury, and executioner and too many yahoos think that bullshit can be excused because the deceased did some bad stuff at some point. It makes me so irate.

      Liked by 2 people

      • FWIW Audit and Josh, I don’t think they started out intending to kill him. Shitbird junior killed him when he resisted, which shitbird junior was woefully unprepared for.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I know what you’re trying to say, but I absolutely hate the term “resisted” here. Resisting would imply these shitbirds, to use your descriptor, had some sort of existing authority that should be recognized and he didn’t. All this guy saw was two assholes cutting off his jog with guns drawn. I consider it self-preservation, not resistance.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Point absolutely taken and yes I mean shitbird in it’s truest sense. To your point, the shitbirds actually felt that they had authority to act as they did! I was raised in the rural south. I’ve seen these types of turds all my life. Mean spirited small minded assholes that propagate hate through an indoctrination of sorts to their children and grandchildren.

            Like

    • Anonymous

      Yes, this is the one instance where there is a justification for an unarmed man to be shot dead during a citizens arrest. Arbrey runs up to an armed man and tries to take his gun from him. Do not try to take a gun from an armed individual. They will assume you are trying to take it so that you can use it against them. Any other action by Arbrey that resulted in him being shot would have been voluntary manslaughter.

      This is simply a case of three dumb people doing dumb things.

      Like

      • Problem with your analysis is that they didn’t comply with the statutory requirements for a citizen’s arrest.

        Like

        • Anonymous

          I’m not talking about law. I’m talking about moral justification. There is no justification for shooting an unarmed man that is not in the act of committing a violent crime… unless they attack you / try to take your gun. As I said, this is three dumb people doing dumb things.

          Liked by 1 person

          • A gun which you had no business being pointed at him. How in the hell was he supposed to know they weren’t preparing to kidnap him? You’re really gonna blame the dead guy for fighting to get away?

            Liked by 1 person

            • Derek

              He really is that dumb. Does he have to do more to prove it?

              Like

            • Anonymous

              We don’t know if the gun was pointed at Aubrey before the struggle started or not. The younger shithead was in front of the truck and our view is obscured. What we do see is them fighting for the gun and Arbrey punching the younger shithead. We also don’t have audio of what was said. We hear the three gunshots. What we see is not Arbrey fighting to get away. We see him fighting to take a gun away from someone. Those are two different things. If he wanted to get away, he would have run, you know, away.

              Like

              • Jdawg108

                He clearly did run. And they followed him. And blocked him. And pointed a gun at him. Who’s to say this is even the first time? Perhaps he had run around them, and then they drove and blocked him again? You’re giving benefit of the doubt to the men who chased a man down because he was black, blocked his path, and shot him.

                We don’t see what happened. Maybe he put his gun in Arbery’s chest? Maybe he said that if he runs away he’ll shoot him? You’re ascribing rationality to the men who thought it was reasonable to chase someone down with a shotgun and a .357.

                Like

          • I would suggest you avoid using “citizen’s arrest” in your argument, then, because it’s a legal term, not an expression of moral justification.

            Liked by 1 person

        • I thought the requirement was just to tell citizens arresy really loud. I’ve seen the movies

          Like

      • Derek

        Yay, we got there! Just when my cynicism towards the stupidity of man waned a bit!

        So when a person approaches you with a shotgun and has another guy with him pointing a pistol at you, your response is compliance?

        Like

        • PTC DAWG

          My response would be to run in a serpentine pattern…

          Some will get that reference. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

        • Anonymous

          My response would be not to attack the guy with the shotgun. That is just dumb. Compliance, some attempt to de-escalte the situation, running away, etc. are all acceptable options. Hell, if you were not committing a crime, pulling your own guy and shooting the guy is a better response. Trying to take the guy’s gun is literally the dumbest response.

          Like

          • Derek

            and worthy of death.

            He was trying to defend himself idiot. Which he has the right to do.

            When people brandish firearms they get the response that they get.

            If the guy with the shotgun had stayed on the other side of the truck, Arbery would have kept running. When he approached him with the shotgun instead Arbery was under no obligated to “deescalate.”

            There was not one gd thing preventing these idiots from following Arbery in their truck until the police arrived.

            Arbery would be alive and these idiots wouldn’t be in jail.

            Liked by 1 person

      • Jdawg108

        He doesn’t “run up to an armed man”. He is running, the armed man tries to block him, he tries to run around the truck, they don’t seem to let him (this is off video). It seems like the armed man was aggressively confronting him and not letting him go on his way. In this situation, Arbery doesn’t know if he’s being kidnapped or about to be strung up.

        I’m white, and have biked up near Cartersville. I’ve had encounters with these guys in their trucks running me off the road, throwing stuff at me, pointing guns at me. Because I happened to be wearing tight clothes and pedaling on two wheels. It’s frightening and fortunately for me, they stopped at harassment. Never got physical (except forcing me off the road).

        Like

        • Yep. Had a guy on a Hall County backroad pull up next to me with his window down pointing a pistol at me with his finger on the trigger. Maybe he was just trying to scare me? But one bump or pothole and there’s a dead Cowdog in the ditch, with no witnesses. Scary shit, dude…
          I started carrying when I rode after that.

          Like

      • MGW

        You brandish a gun at me, you’re a dead man if you give me an opportunity, and that’s your fault. If you kill me trying to fight me off, that’s your fault too. You do not pick a fight with a weapon unless you’re ready to use it and face the consequences. There’s no “honest mistake” presumption I have to make a out your. If you think I’m an immediate threat to you or someone else’s life, and that’s why you have the gun, you’d better be 100% correct. Anything less than that and you’re going to prison for a long time if I die, and if I win that struggle, I’m walking free because I did the world a favor by protecting the next person you try to confront with a gun without justification.

        Doesn’t necessarily make you evil, but like a moron you challenged me to a fight to the death without being 100% certain it was justified, and you will face the consequences. I have zero obligation to presume you are some kind of “good guy making an honest mistake” or that you aren’t about to shoot me. You point a gun at me, or even just show it to me and try to give me orders, I get to kill you if you give me a chance unless you show me a badge.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Anonymous

          OK. Let’s assume Aubrey was completely innocent and had not even been trespassing. Had Aubrey pulled his own gun and shot both of the guys dead, I can understand that. He, as an innocent individual, has people pull weapons on him. He is justified in defending himself. But, I don’t someone challenge someone to fight to the death. I see two morons that don’t know how to perform a citizens arrest properly.

          The evidence through shows that Aubrey is a known thief and that he had been to he construction site on at least 3 other occasions where there is video of him apparently looking for stuff to steal.

          The really odd thing to this case that I am just now seeing is that one of the McMichael’s used to work at the DA’s office and worked the case where Aubrey was indicted for bringing a gun to a high school basketball game. How well they knew each other will be quite important to this. You really don’t need to perform a citizens arrest on someone you know unless they are committing a forced felony. You know them and can identify them for the police. You also don’t attack an armed man that knows you have prior convictions / indictments.

          As I said, this is three dumb people doing dumb things.

          Liked by 1 person

          • The evidence through shows that Aubrey is a known thief and that he had been to he construction site on at least 3 other occasions where there is video of him apparently looking for stuff to steal.

            What evidence?

            Larry English, the man who owns the house under construction, told The Washington Post that the structure was not robbed.

            “That’s completely wrong. I’ve never had a police report or anything stolen from my property, or any kind of robbery,” he said.

            English, 50, said he was about 90 miles away in Douglas, Ga., where he lives with his wife and two children, when Arbery was killed. He said he is severely ill and is building the waterfront home as part of his bucket list. But he said it’s now unlikely his family will ever move into the Brunswick home because he’s faced death threats and his wife is too afraid.

            He called himself an “innocent bystander” and said he’s hurting for Arbery’s mother.

            “I don’t think anybody should ever have to lose a child,” he said. “It’s not supposed to be that way.”

            As for McMichael’s work in the DA’s office, it sounds like he was a model employee.

            The First Rule of Holes is your friend here.

            Like

            • Anonymous

              I am not trying to say that either of the McMichaels is a good or even a decent person. My point was that if they knew the guy, their actions were completely unjustified as they could have identified him to the police.

              Whether or not anything was stolen from the construction site is irrelevant. There is video of him at the site, which is 12 miles from his home, on four different occasions. Just because there is nothing to steal, doesn’t mean he wasn’t looking for stuff to steal. Visiting the same construction site multiple times, three of which were at night, is really odd behavior.

              inb4 someone claims “so that means he deserved to die”. I didn’t say that, and you know it.

              Like

              • They saw a guy running down the street. They didn’t identify him on the 911 call.

                Just because there is nothing to steal, doesn’t mean he wasn’t looking for stuff to steal. Visiting the same construction site multiple times, three of which were at night, is really odd behavior.

                Good luck on proving your first point. As to the second, if visiting a construction site multiple times is odd, I’d venture to say there are a lot of odd Southerners, including myself.

                I’m not making the leap you’re worried about in your last sentence, but you are making a lot of assumptions of which you have no way of knowing their accuracy.

                Like

              • Derek

                You’re spending a lot of time saying something, so just come out and say it.

                Should these guys have been arrested on the spot?

                Based only on what you’ve seen so far, was the shooting a criminal act?

                Like

          • Derek

            So you can shoot them. That’s acceptable. But what you can’t do is fight them!

            Calling you stupid is an insult to stupid people.

            Like

          • Man, I’ve been in homes under construction MANY times for no reason whatsoever. Often if I’m driving and I see one and it looks like no one’s around I’ll stop my vehicle and walk inside and look around (If it’s “wide open” like the one in Georgia was…. open doors, stud walls, etc.)

            I just think it’s cool to see stuff under construction.

            Like

            • I wouldn’t recommend going on to construction sites uninvited. They don’t want you there for several reasons; you may be a thief looking to steal tools, copper, etc or you may trip your dumb self on a 2×4 and crack your head on the slab.

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              • MGW

                That’s 100% true. There are many hazards on construction sites, including getting arrested for trespassing. But you won’t find “getting shot and killed after the fact because someone is suspicious you might have stolen something” on that long list of hazards.

                Liked by 2 people

                • I was only pointing out that the suddenly now popular “I trepass on construction sites all the time” stance is really dumb. Don’t do it…ever.

                  Like

              • I worked construction for 11 years, so I guess that’s why I’m not worried about it…. We found homeless or otherwise indigent-looking dudes on sites on several occasions. We shooed them off but never called the cops on them.

                FWIW — most tools stolen on a site are stolen by other contractors. Not random thieves. Just sayin’.

                Like

          • MGW

            “I see two morons that don’t know how to perform a citizens arrest properly.”

            With hindsight, that’s still just a maybe, and requires you to assume their motives, of which you haven’t the slightest clue other than what the television tells you. And even presuming that is true, it’s still an unjustified homicide. All that’s left to do is decide what level of murder it is under the law.

            In the moment, in that split second, there’s an unarmed man, and an armed man trying to give the unarmed man orders. You show a man a gun and start telling him what to do, you’ve picked a fight. Whatever happens after that is entirely because of what you did to start that interaction. Again, he’s got no duty to assume you’re a “good guy.” He’s equally justified to believe you might be taking him away to lock him in your basement, hang him from a tree, rape him… anything. “I’ve got a gun and you’re going to do what I say.” That’s the message, and the consequences are 100% on the man holding the gun; he’d better hope he’s 100% justified and capable of following through.

            Here’s something that should come as no surprise: we don’t trust citizens to make that choice. That’s why we have police. Even they struggle with it sometimes; it isn’t easy to do. The Fifth Amendment says that no one shall be “deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.” There’s no exception for angry mobs.

            Liked by 1 person

      • May be!…but two of the dumb people are guilty of causing the murder of an unarmed man. No excuse for that. No excuse for the actions of the DA’s from Glynn and Ware Counties, who obviously thought this would all blow over, and probably would have if the video hadn’t surfaced.

        Hard to believe lynchings can still happen in the United States in 2020.

        Like

    • PTC DAWG

      Agree, take his picture, film him running off the “the goods”…but chasing someone down for what they thought was theft of “stuff” and attempting a “Citizens Arrest”…is a fools errand.

      Other than The Andy Griffith Show, how often does a “Citizens Arrest” go well?

      No way I’m chasing someone down unless they have my loved one with them, or something of the like…harm to them, etc…not because they may have my “stuff”.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I just watched the AGS “Citizen’s Arrest” episode a few days ago. In that case, it actually didn’t go very well either. Led to Barney almost resigning…which would have been a tragedy for those of us still seeking a comic fix in Mayberry.

        Like

  18. Keese

    Worth a full listen. Thought some points here were interesting: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCzJyFKoqo

    Like

  19. There is no cure for the Chinese Corona virus there is also no cure for stupid.

    Like

  20. What we have here, in the State of Georgia, is the culmination of decades of NRA and Georgia Carry demanding more and more warlike legislation from our good-ol-boy-and-girl Senators and Representatives.

    It’s not enough anymore to just defend the 2nd Amendment; we have to pass more and more laws romanticizing gun justice, giving Georgians the implied consent and blessing of the state to own more and bigger guns, huge stashes of ammunition!–with no stipulations that people who purchase guns and carry them in public, loaded, have any sort of training in gun safety or the proper use of firearms.

    Too bad the Georgia legislature’s not in session this spring, or we’d have a new law that says it’s OK in Georgia to pull your loaded gun and wave it around in public.

    I’m a gun owner and I know I have a constitutional right to own my guns. But it’s becoming more and more obvious–from the Arbury case to several of the notes posted in this thread by members of this group–that too many people in Georgia really don’t have any idea how to use the guns they own.

    What the state should do, now, is repeal OCGA 16-3-24 [b]; or at least, take out the phrase “unless the person using such force reasonably believes…” But this is Georgia. Nobody in this state, outside the city of Atlanta, gets elected unless they say stuff like “Pro Trump. Pro Gun. Pro Life.”

    This whole episode will die back down soon and we’ll all get back to the way we were.

    Like

    • Silver Creek Dawg

      Nobody in this state, outside the city of Atlanta, gets elected unless they say stuff like “Pro Trump. Pro Gun. Pro Life.”

      You don’t live in a decent-sized city in Georgia (Savannah, Augusta, Columbus, Albany, etc). All of them are run by progressive Democrats.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Yeah – I live in GA-6 AKA Newt Gingrich’s old district. Our district voted for Clinton in 2016 and our current House Rep is a woman of color who ran on a single issue (gun control because her kid was killed in a school shooting) and won in 2018. In fairness – neither was a runaway winner (McBath won by less than 4,000 votes in an election with like 330K voters) and there’s plenty of red hats and Trump stickers around here, but it’s not as ubiquitous as one might believe.

        Like

    • Gurkha Dawg

      Hey chop, those elections we have to determine our political leaders are a real pain in the ass aren’t they. Freedom is for dumbasses, right? If only we had a dictator, someone like you, we would be so much better off.

      Like

  21. Gurkha Dawg

    Has anybody watched “Devs” on HULU? I started watching it and couldn’t stop. I can’t decide if I liked it or not. It was definitely different.

    Like

  22. doofusdawg

    I tried to stay away but i couldn’t. Judge Sullivan just appointed a substitute prosecutor for the Flynn case because the doj moved to dismiss. Since there are numerous lawyers and legal minded folks on this site… i had to ask what they would do if they represented someone for a criminal offense… the solicitor dropped charges… yet the judge went searching for a new solicitor because he didn’t like the outcome.

    Like

    • Flynn’s situation is a little more complicated than that. Flynn pled guilty and admitted to the charges against him.

      Like

      • doofusdawg

        Come on Senator. They threatened to prosecute his son if he didn’t cooperate. But what does that have to do with the solicitor who just dropped your client’s charges yet the judge found another prosecutor other than the government to still go after your client. You would go ballistic.

        Like

        • Sullivan has done this before, with Holder in the Ted Stevens case.

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          • doofusdawg

            Yet he ruled for the defense in the Stevens case.

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            • Napoleon BonerFart

              I thought he cited the prosecutors for contempt. I didn’t think he tried to hang Stevens, regardless of how the government acted.

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          • Gurkha Dawg

            Just because he admitted to the charges doesn’t mean he is guilty. Just look at the Central Park 5. Like that lawyer’s billboard says: “Just because you did it doesn’t mean you’re guilty”.

            Like

            • Flynn pleaded guilty, advised by counsel, in court, under oath, confirming the specific charges against him, after being warned specifically of the penalties for perjury by Sullivan. What am I looking at the Central Park 5 for?

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              • Gurkha Dawg

                Flynn withdrew his guilty plea. The Central Park 5 confessed to crimes they didn’t commit. Happens all the time.

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                • If you don’t see the difference between the two, I don’t know what to tell you.

                  Sullivan is pissed off that Flynn perjured himself in court. That’s why he’s doing what he’s doing now.

                  And, no, that doesn’t happen all the time.

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                • Gurkha Dawg

                  Then why wasn’t Flynn charged with perjury? According to liberal activists it does happen all the time. That’s how the evil cops put all those poor innocent people in jail.

                  Like

                • Christ, are you not getting it? That’s why Sullivan is calling in the retired judge now.

                  Like

                • Gurkha Dawg

                  So, you’re saying he’s guilty before he is even charged? Wow.

                  Like

                • So, he didn’t perjure himself when he said he was guilty under oath and subsequently retracted it? What would you call it, a misunderstanding?

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                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Innocence plus prosecutorial misconduct is no defense. Only the government is permitted to lie in court.

                  This case is a clear example of why the constitutional separation of powers is so flawed.

                  Like

              • Napoleon BonerFart

                Several of the youths in the Central Park jogger case took plea deals. I never really considered them to be the bad guys before, but your reasoning is compelling.

                Like

          • Pirate

            So glad you are a tax attorney

            Like

    • Derek

      I personally don’t think that the judge has the authority to deny the motion to dismiss. However, i know for a fact that the US government has argued successfully in District Court, at the 11th Circuit and in the US Supreme Court that a judge can sentence a defendant who has pled guilty even if the government has successfully moved to dismiss the case post guilty plea.

      In short, barr can win his motion and the judge still send flynn to prison.

      Stupid? Sure. But that’s the system of “justice” the rest of us deal with. Not sure why friends of trump should be treated differently.

      Like

  23. RangerRuss

    Man, you know we’re living in bizarro America when those who tend left are siding with The Man.
    Gotdam hippies.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Derek

      The right undermining the credibility of federal law enforcement and US intel is SOP, right?

      Gotdam traitors.

      Like

      • RangerRuss

        I have little faith that rule of law will overcome the Chicago political mob and the unelected entrenched bureaucracy’s treason, sedition and failed coup. Their extortion machine is working overtime and their tactics have been refined from years of study and indoctrination from international communism. No one on the right or left with any sense of self preservation dares to speak up for fear of being Flynned. I welcome our new overlords of Derek types. Their complete domination and subjugation of us ignorant, hillbilly nazis is for our own good after all. Where do I get my free tie dye shirts and patchouli incense?

        Liked by 1 person

        • Derek

          Russia if you’re listening…its ok because we’ll get away with it.

          We have traitors on our side.

          Like

          • Napoleon BonerFart

            There was definitely collusion. We don’t care what Mueller’s report and Schiff’s transcripts say.
            #NarrativesOverFacts

            Like

    • doofusdawg

      Yep. Guys like Matt Tiabbi and Lee Smith and Glenn Greewald have gotten it… others make their living with the new normal… Orwell… but we all have to make a living.

      Like

    • Funny, I can remember a time when those who tend right were skeptical, if not downright hostile, to Putin and Russia. Good times.

      By the way, The Man here is AG Barr.

      Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        Who would have thought that it would be the left carrying the torch of McCarthy?

        Like

      • RangerRuss

        Aw Senator, you know those guys are crooked as a dog’s ass. They committed multiple crimes and thought it would all be swept away with HR Clinton’s election. I’m amazed that anyone, much less classic liberals, would support the weaponization of the FBI and other lettered agencies against US citizens. What’s truly disappointing is the hypocrisy of the Fourth Estate in not only ignoring but facilitating the crimes and then the subsequent lies. I know why the corrupt crowd in government are doing everything they can to destroy those who seek to disrupt their money making schemes, bribes and kickbacks. But I can’t understand why decent folks such as you would abide and defend that corruption.

        Like

        • RR, you’re a good guy, but there are some rabbit holes I refuse to chase down.

          Tell you what, though — when the dust settles, if the facts prove out what you say, I’ll do a mea culpa Playpen post where y’all can “told you so” me to death.

          Like

          • RangerRuss

            Fair enough. I enjoy a discussion that isn’t reverberations from an echo chamber or screams from partisans of either side.

            Like

          • Derek

            Obama was so evil about this NO ONE knew there was a Russian investigation before they voted.

            The blatant and craven criminality!!!

            Russia if you’re listening you can influence the election and our opponents won’t tell the voters about it in advance.

            I’d love to read the stupid response to why Obama didn’t tell us about the russian influence campaign on trumps behalf before the polls opened.

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            • Napoleon BonerFart

              It certainly wasn’t because they were sure Hillary would win. How could she win in the face of tens of thousands of dollars of Facebook ads? It’s literally impossible!
              #EvenIfCollusionDidn’tHappenItStillHappened
              #TreasonEverywhere

              Like

  24. Gurkha Dawg

    He hasn’t been charged with perjury so what difference does it make. The main point is he was targeted by the Obama administration who went after him with everything they could. If they came after me or you the same way they would get us too. It’s all starting to come out now. Hopefully Trump will pardon him and appoint him to head the FBI. That would rank right up there with Dooley Field at Sanford Stadium.

    Like

    • Why does Trump need to pardon Flynn?

      By the way, didn’t Trump fire him for lying?

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      • Gurkha Dawg

        To protect him from being continually falsely accused and prosecuted. Trump now knows he shouldn’t have believed Obama’s lies. Appointing Flynn head of the FBI would rectify that mistake.

        Like

      • Gurkha Dawg

        As much as I have enjoyed our battle of intellectual heavyweights, I have to get back to work. I’ll just declare victory and withdraw. Peace.

        Like

    • Gurkha Dawg

      That comment was supposed to go under our little back and forth above.

      Like

    • Derek

      And all that power is fine when used against people who aren’t friends of Trump, amirite?

      How many innocent people have to be released from death row before you complain about the “justice” system as it applies to the rest of us?

      So far 167 people have been removed from death row after it was determined that they were innocent.

      This gets zero complaints from the right who if it were up to you, they’d be dead.

      But a guy who twice admits he’s guilty?? Here comes the hand wringing!

      You’re all fos.

      2 Americans died of ebola and it was wall to wall Obama’s fault on rw media including from trump’s sewer. We’re over 80k dead and you think recommending the introduction of bleach into the body is leadership.

      Stupid traitorous hypocrites the lot of you.

      Like

      • Don’t look now but Burr just stepped down. The Donald sicced the FBI on him, it appears…

        Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        As long as innocent people don’t plead guilty, I’m with you. It’s an injustice. But if they please guilty, they obviously deserve their sentence. I certainly hope those folks who plead guilty in the Central Park jogger case didn’t share in the civil settlement.
        #Justice

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      • Gurkha Dawg

        Nothing’s perfect Derek, sometimes innocent people die. It’s unfortunate, but what do want me to do , cry about it?

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        • Derek

          Humility and humanity would suggest that we should stop state sanctioned murder.

          Why should any government be sanctioned to terminate people in a knowingly flawed system?

          The idea that any governmental actor can be relied upon todecide who should live and who should die ought to be antithetical to conservatives, but it ain’t.

          Stupidity and hypocrisy is sort of your ilk’s calling card ain’t it?

          Like