Your 6.3.20 Playpen

I’m sure plenty of y’all have been waiting to weigh in on George Floyd’s death and the aftermath consuming the country.  Fine, that’s what this Playpen is for.

First, some words of caution.  I don’t have a lot of bright lines here when it comes to commentary at GTP, but making racist comments is one of them.  Anyone who posts something that crosses that particular line will find his/her post scrubbed and their posting privileges revoked for good.  As to what crossing that line might entail, that’s entirely my call.  If you don’t like that, I would suggest that if you’ve composed something you’re unsure passes the smell test, don’t post it.  I’ve still got a couple of neo-Nazis who try to pass their garbage off here on occasion and I don’t have any desire to tolerate it.  Please, don’t be stupid.

As for the topic du jour, I feel a lot like Kirby Smart.  I haven’t experienced racism, but I recognize the pain it’s caused and still causes.  If you are a skeptic about institutionalized racism, I strongly recommend reading this Radley Balko post.  The math is the math.

Institutionalized racism, unfortunately, is a subset of an even bigger problem, institutionalized indifference to police power abuse.  There’s math for that, too, as Balko summarizes here:

The answer to the first question is easy. The problems in policing — from militarization to lack of transparency, to misplaced incentives, to the lack of real accountability — certainly do affect everyone, not just black people. According to The Post’s database of fatal police shootings, since 2015 police have shot and killed about twice as many white people as black people.

But while police abuse and violence have the potential to harm anyone, as with virtually all of the other shortcomings of the criminal justice system, it disproportionately harms black people. Cops may shoot and kill twice as many white people as black, but there about six times as many white people as black people in the United States. Proportionally, black people are much more likely to be shot and killed by cops.

Which brings us to the whole “Black Lives Matter” thing.  Swinging back to Smart’s comment, it’s hard for most of us to understand what that means when we haven’t walked in those black lives’ shoes.

When white people see video of unjust police abuse of a white person, it may make us angry, sad or uncomfortable, but most of us don’t see ourselves in the position of the person in the video. If we’re polite and respectful, we think, and don’t put ourselves in scenarios that lead to confrontations with police officers, there’s little chance that we’ll ever end up like Daniel Shaver. When black people see video of Officer Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, their reaction is much more likely to be that could have been me — or my son, or friend or brother.

I am not arrogant enough to pretend that I have all the answers, or that I should even be somebody who deserves to be listened to in a serious way about this.  But what’s left of my inner libertarian insists that a large part of this is fueled by what I’ve called the failure of the Wars on Nouns (Drugs, Terror, etc.).  We have sacrificed our civil rights and liberties steadily over decades for false security and we’re paying the price for it.

It’s time for our politicians to recognize that and start undoing the damage.  This is a good first step.

And this is a good second one.

Republicans and Democrats in Congress have begun a new push to shut down a Pentagon program that transfers military weaponry to local law enforcement departments, as bipartisan urgency builds to address the excessive use of force and the killings of unarmed black Americans by the police.

Somehow, in too many places, we’ve allowed police to mutate from “protect and serve” to occupiers in our midst.  We didn’t intend it, but it’s happened nonetheless.  And while I’ve seen countless examples of good cops over the past week, I’ve also seen what happens when you have police departments that feel threatened, not by individuals’ violence, but by wide scale resistance to police power abuse.  Fixing that isn’t going to be easy, but we’ve got to start making the effort.

Okay, I’m climbing off my soapbox now and inviting you to stand on it.  Please be considerate.

256 Comments

Filed under GTP Stuff

256 responses to “Your 6.3.20 Playpen

  1. illini84

    You’re a better man than I, Gunga Din.

    Like

  2. josh hancher

    Well said. Thank you, but I’m sitting this one out… rather, taking a knee

    Liked by 1 person

  3. sniffer

    “We don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are.”

    Anais Nin

    Like

  4. Scuba

    Real change can only happen when all parties involved look at themselves first and ask what can I do. Then act on those findings. Just throwing money at a problem has not fixed anything.

    Teach a man to fish don`t give him a fish everyday.

    I don`t know the answers and believe we all share in the blame. I do wish we could find a way to make us all equally safe and share the same opportunities.

    Like

  5. TN Dawg

    If you constantly inflame tensions and insist someone is oppressed, they will become hopeless and resentful. They will anger. You will have what we have today.

    If you constantly tell people they have hope and insist they can succeed in a world of opportunities, they will strive and achieve excellence. They will prosper. You will have what some black families have today.

    The question is, how will you shape the world?

    Like

  6. gotcowdog

    I mentioned after Arbery that I was worried about this happening.

    Like

    • RangerRuss

      How’s the fishing been?

      Like

      • illini84

        It’s just too crowded down on 30a for us to go. We’re going to stand pat and hope for the fall.

        Like

        • RangerRuss

          illini84, I’m going to take this opportunity to thank you for providing alternative options to my annual trip to the Keys. That wasn’t looking viable during the planning phase a couple months ago. I remembered your trip last year and explored that area. Found a nice place in Gulf Shores, Al and am looking at charters in vicinity of the oil rigs. I had to adjust my schedule until the end of July and only a four day trip. But I’m going fishing. Thanks man.

          Like

          • Should mother nature be kind and you can locate/trust/make reservations with a good local guide…my friend, you will an experience worth the price every day you’re on the water….tight lines and ice cold beer

            Like

            • RangerRuss

              Thanks DIW. I have a client from there pointing me in the right direction. If the captain is willing I’ll put a patch behind my ear, slip out of my Barbie dress and fish hard a couple days. Then it’s umbrella drinks and live bait off the dock or beach. Time to to prep gear and sharpen knives and hooks.

              Like

    • gotcowdog

      Fishing was great fun ( with guide Capt. John snookhooker.com) not real productive tho. Murky water and funky tides with big afternoon thunderstorms. My two ultra-competitive sons still must respectthe master who claimed the trifecta of first fish, best fish, most fish ( keepers only). Although I did get accus d of cheating thanks to an accused “Bromance” with the guide who is an old salt like me.
      Beach is great, my daughter is putting her part time bartending skills to good use and is now the current favorite child. Y’all be safe up there. Got “Redfish” Cowdog off to the bar …

      Like

  7. My only comments here are:
    1) Nice job, Senator.
    2) Everyone should read Under Our Skin, by DGD Benjamin Watson.

    I bought mine at the UGA Bookstore when he was doing a book signing on a home game weekend after its release. He is what I would want my son to become if I had a son.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Russ

      Thank you for the suggested reading, ee. I feel like I have to do something and learning more about what my African American friends are really feeling is a good start.

      Such a sad week combined with my excitement over the successful SpaceX launch and docking with ISS.

      Like

      • Ben seems to be a man of faith, a loving husband and father, incredibly smart, a respected teammate, and passionate for those who can least defend themselves, One moment he is speaking at the March for Life or at CPAC, the next he is calling out the President for the words he uses, and the next he lets the African-American community know that some are hurting themselves and their communities. All of that and he’s a Terry finance graduate to boot.

        If he decided to throw his hat in the political ring, I would definitely support him.

        Like

  8. Yurdle

    Reform to qualified immunity is an interesting idea. It puts the pain on the pocketbooks of local governments, which are the people most able to set policy, train officers, and weed out bad guys. There will always be bad guys in every profession. Put it this way: the officer that killed George Floyd seems like a bad guy who was going to use too much force, but the three officers who stood by were in the best position to stop the killing. Killers should be—must be!—punished, but that doesn’t save lives. Getting those other three officers to intervene might have kept Floyd alive. Getting those guys to act is my policy focus.

    We have to be balanced or else people won’t be willing to serve in law enforcement. But there is room for reform before we get to that point.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Normaltown Mike

      I’m not sure it was just the one cop that killed him. A subsequent video shows all 4 kneeling on him. If 800 lbs of force are placed on a man laying flat on the ground, the consequences are dire.

      I don’t know enough about qualified immunity but it seems like a good first step. There also needs to be some better method for investigating and prosecuting bad cops. Obviously at the municipal level, it is not being done effectively.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Better training to start with, too.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Muttley

          A few years ago I saw a video a guy made, driving around and politely defying border patrol agents (up north)- within his legal rights.

          This followed a vicious and horrifying taser attack by a border agent against a college student who had correctly asserted her rights. (I don’t believe the agent was held accountable, last I checked).

          So this guy made his film. They demanded ID, etc. and he declined, as allowed under the circumstances. What struck me is that every agent responded differently. Some panicked, some tried to intimidate, some got angry, most were confused- but they were all different, all improvising.

          Complete failure of training, if there was any.

          Like

          • In 1997, active duty, I had border patrol pull everything out of my uhaul and throw it in the ground when I refused to answer a string of questions. I said “here’s my ID, I’m active duty” they wouldn’t even look at it. I was clearly not transporting illegals in an 8ft trailer, but one guy really really got bent out of shape when I said ” I’m not required to answer your questions”

            Liked by 1 person

          • WIll (the other one)

            Also, what KPIs are they judged on, and do those current KPIs disincentive de-escalation?
            (This also can have some overlap on the arguments around civil forfeiture — which started out with the simple idea that if a criminal steals a pile of money, they shouldn’t keep it, and now is tilted far more in favor of “we can take your stuff based on a hunch and it’s almost impossible for you to get it back unless you have money for a really great lawyer.”

            Liked by 1 person

        • WIll (the other one)

          Yes, but, with some some big caveats:
          The top brass needs to not only fully buy-in to the training, but coach it and reinforce it. The best training in the world will get you maybe 2-3 week change and then old patterns reemerge if there’s no consequences or rewards for the change in behavior.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Yurdle

        Thanks for the response. I may have the facts wrong on what happened, as I haven’t seen that second video.

        We have to do a better job of prevention. I just don’t think the deterrence of punishment for bad actors is enough to keep violence from occurring, at least when we are talking about violence at the level of killing.

        If governments, most of which must have balanced budgets, feel the financial pinch of liability, they will have a strong incentive to reduce the conduct that gives rise to liability and weeding out the riskiest people.

        I’m trying to figure this out. If we want things to change (and I think there is a broad consensus that we do), we need concrete new things to try. This is just one idea.

        Liked by 2 people

        • WIll (the other one)

          One thought I’ve seen, but I don’t know how feasible it is, would be requiring malpractice insurance for officers — the idea being that bad cops would become too expensive to keep around. Not bad if it can be implemented, but doesn’t really address the initial risk.

          Like

        • Evan Powell

          I agree – lawsuits move this country, see anti smoking for example. Not the whole solution but seems like something we should definitely do – reform qualified immunity.

          Like

  9. mddawg

    I don’t have any answers, but I thought this was powerful.

    Like

    • Agreed. Very powerful. Along the same line, if you’ve never seen her (Jane Elliott’s) famed “Blue Eyes” experiment it’s worth the watch:

      Like

  10. Jim

    i can’t remember the specifics but saw something online suggesting that liberal white women are as racist as anyone because racism is so ingrained into who we are. and while its horrible to say, i think there was a lot of truth to the point the person was making. and i’m kicking myself for not remembering where i saw it. i glossed over it at the time but after thinking about it, it has stuck with me.

    Its also interesting to me how the media has pivoted to this from the corona virus. if we don’t have a massive spike in cases after all of these protests and riots it really makes me question why we’ve shut down the economy for nearly 3 months now.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Anonymous

    inb4 every lefty in this thread pretends they can read everyone’s mind and knows that “rioting”, “looting”, and “antifa” are just racist dog-whistles for white nationalists.

    The reason this thread is going to be a shit show is because most of the population lacks any form of intellectual honesty coupled with a fake news industry that has abandoned any precept of objectivity. Naval Ravikant had a wonderful quote the other day “The Modern Devil is cheap dopamine”. We are watching our society deteriorate because huge amounts of the population are addicted to the dopamine rush that comes with feeling self-righteous. The fate of the Republic is dependent on a bunch of drug addicts seeking rehab.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Yes, I’m sure that’s it. 🙄

      Liked by 1 person

      • Anonymous

        the lefty ignores the looting, rioting, arson, and deaths while thinking the real problem is that someone said something online.

        Color me surprised.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Joe Schmoe

          The righty ignores hundreds of years of black suppression through slavery, segregation, and systemic racism and acts like it is because people are lazy or being TOLD by libs that they are being suppressed… not because they actually are. Color me astounded.

          Like

          • Anonymous

            That is a poor job of mind reading. I’m not a righty. I’m not ignoring systemic racism. My statements were about why we as a society can not have an adult conversation about race. Most of society, apparently including you, is more concerned with the dopamine rush that accompanies ascribing bad intentions to people that disagree with them than they are with resolving societal problems. That “most of society” is spread across the entire spectrum of race, religion, politics, etc.

            Like

          • Napoleon BonerFart

            Relax. It’s a time for celebration.

            Liked by 1 person

            • doofusdawg

              Just came for your comments nb. But seriously… it must be extremely difficult for the young African Americans on the team to deal with all this. Seeing what happens on social media… living with various aspects in their own lives… and being in an environment dominated and supported by dawg fans who they are constantly told by the media are nothing but racists.

              Which leads me to my point that they should not believe all the crap they are bombarded with by people and groups who have their own self interests which are in no way aligned with theirs… but rather use them as pawns for their own personal gain.

              Hopefully these young men continue to get exposed to the good in America and are able to turn away from the human debris that is the far left.

              Like

              • Napoleon BonerFart

                I’m sure it is hard. Mainstream media and politics is like the Matrix. Most people don’t even know they’re plugged in, let alone how to unplug.

                We’re all subject to a system that only serves to exploit us. Picking the shirts or the skins to be the next team to exploit us doesn’t help much.

                I tell my kids to get offline. Stop watching TV. Read books. Go to church. Hang out with their friends. That’s the best way to be happy. Which is why folks in power don’t like it.

                Like

                • doofusdawg

                  Just curious your age and occupation if you don’t mind.

                  Like

                • doofusdawg

                  Sorry for asking I just thought I might want to hire you for whatever you do.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  No problem. I’m 48 and consult for property/casualty insurance companies.

                  If you run an insurance company, hit me up. 🙂

                  Like

                • doofusdawg

                  Nope. But right now I’m just wishing I had bought that terrorism rider on my centers. Was bad enough to have that exclusion for transmittable diseases.

                  Like

        • Derek

          You keep proving my premise.

          Like

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Don’t worry. The problem has been solved.

          Like

          • WIll (the other one)

            The Redskins weighing in approaches the level of tone deafness that usually is only hit when the FBI tweets about MLK…

            Liked by 1 person

            • Union Jack

              Just the team in Washington? How about the whole NFL? They have no credibility when speaking on this particular subject.

              Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        He doesn’t even understand that these are just peaceful protests. But if they were riots, that would be fine because peaceful protests don’t change anything and riots are required to make the powerful listen to the powerless. But white nationalists started the riots anyway.

        I mean, duh! You fucking fuckers. Even middle schoolers get it.

        Liked by 1 person

    • TN Dawg

      This is largely correct. Dopamine is the opiate of the masses.

      It’s almost entirely surreal that many who claim the government authorities are systemically morally flawed invariably agitate for the expansion of its powers.

      Like

  12. Ran A

    Well written. Well thought out. Thank you!

    If you have African American friends – true friends, then you have had some of these discussions. Erick Erickson rightly pointed out multiple times yesterday, that “the talk” white parents have with their kids, is don’t make me a grandparent too early. “The talk” that AA parents have with their kids, is be careful, I really want to be a grandparent one day.

    My youngest son’s two best friends in life are African American. One is a rising young advertising executive in New York, with a Morehouse degree, the other a U.S. Air Force Academy Graduate, who is a Captain very involved in U.S. Intelligence (that’s all I know or he would have to kill me). I love these two kids like they are my own. And, yes, I worry for them in the world they live.

    You can chose to focus on the negatives that come from the inner-city, or you can chose to look at the root cause and try to help/create change. But if you sit on the side-lines pretending that people are acting out, because that’s just who they are, then you have lived your life with your head buried in the sand.

    Police brutality is just part of the solution. Safe environments for students, drug free zones, programs to educate and remove poverty, programs that take away a court system that is designed to profit on misdemeanors fines that lead to incarceration of poor people (usually minorities), changing the drug laws in this country, and a commitment to save the next generation of young black folks (especially the men), can turn this around. This is now an embedded culture that these kids are born into. You have 2 1/2 strikes against you before you can walk. The court system is a frickin mess, that is designed so that only those with money and truly navigate it. Don’t believe me? Go sit in traffic court. Pick a court that is 70-30, even 80-20 white/black and watch what happens. And that’s just traffic court..

    Just something to consider…

    By the way, I”m white, in my early 60’s and have never voted for a Democrat for President. This is NOT a Democrat or Republican problem; this is an American problem. We are better than this as a society and we need to get to work.

    Liked by 6 people

    • 92 Grad

      We absolutely have a civics problem. Long ago we were taught how to be American. Its hard and requires discipline, self accountability, honesty, integrity, and respect for all. Basically, how do you act when no one is looking?

      Too simple for the problems we have, its just my opinion.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Go Dawgs!

      Perhaps you should consider voting for the Democrat in the upcoming presidential election.

      Like

  13. truck

    The wife and I are raising chickens and ducks. Soon you can contact me for all your scrambled, over easy and omelet needs. My wife wants to name the business “Clucking A Well Told, Bubba,” for all you Right Stuff fans.

    Like

  14. Hobnail_Boot

    “Somehow, in too many places, we’ve allowed police to mutate from “protect and serve” to occupiers in our midst.”

    It stems from police being armed to the teeth. It’s with researching Clinton’s 1033 Plan if you want to read more about how excess military arms and equipment makes its way into the hands of state and local cops.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. gotcowdog

    One more while I’m packing the cooler then I’ll follow along from the beach.
    First, not much on the news about ATL where I am. Apparently it’s fairly calm there? I thought Mayor Bottoms did a great job Friday night. “Killer Mike” not so much.
    Second, I rarely watch the news, but flipping between Fox News and msnbc I am shocked at the bias in their respective slants on covering the protests/riots
    Third, watching people tear shit up and raise hell and beat others? It’s scary. I absolutely would hate to kill another human being, but before I let harm come to me or mine I will.
    I’ll start carrying again after the trip.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Which beach? And Atlanta got storms last night may have helped

      Like

      • gotcowdog

        Marco island. Having a blast. RR was right, fishing is tough here but caught good reds and trout enough to feed the gang

        Liked by 2 people

        • Ah. Way south. We’re about to get a tropical storm and a lot of rain in bay County.

          Like

          • RangerRuss

            Oh my. What a wonderful part of the world. I allowed my new wife to veto a job opportunity near there 35 years ago this month. Didn’t find out until years later that she’d been cracked in her blonde noggin coming off the field in J’ville the previous season and she hated Florida and everybody there.
            Now we’re considering retirement in that area. Got to get hands on now. Later fellas.

            Liked by 1 person

  16. Bill M

    Well said.

    Like

  17. Smoky Joe Would

    What gets me is how the people who are in this for other purposes, rioting and stealing stuff, have completely taken this over. They have changed this from peacefully protesting a person’s wrongful death to just making noise. And, pardon my tin foil hat, but someone or something is behind most of the bad stuff. Pallets of bricks placed on sidewalks, come on, man. This might get worse before it gets better.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Derek

    When things like this happen on camera, you know its not getting any better anytime soon. There will be a next time and a next time and a next time.

    https://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2020/06/kansas-city-riot-police-pepper-spray

    What amash proposes is a great start. So it probably won’t happen. Republicans are too pro-poliice. Democrats will worry about the financial costs to governmental agencies that will be getting sued. The degree of impunity that comes from qualified immunity has really turned our country into a police state.

    While it disproportionately effects black people the target is poor, powerless people of all types. The degree of force and how quickly things escalate very likely relate to racial attitudes, but the police are essentially an occupying force over poor people across this country. And they get away with it because that’s the way the people who benefit from the system want things to be.

    Read the history of the Mulford Act in California if you want to know how this works. You think the NRA and Ronald Reagan were never gun control advocates? Think again.

    “The richest one percent of this country owns half our country’s wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It’s bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. Now you’re not naive enough to think we’re living in a democracy, are you buddy?”

    Gordon Gecko.

    They make the rules that suit them, divide and conquer us and then tell us we’re free. And no political party or ideology is immune from it.

    Unfortunately we live in country with a high tolerance for authority. Only a fraction of the American people would be considered anti-authoritarian.

    How pro-authority are we? This much: “A July 2017 survey of 5,000 Americans found that a quarter of U.S. adults like the idea of having “a strong leader who does not have to bother with Congress and elections,” while 18 percent say that “having the army rule” would be a good or very good idea. Accounting for overlap, three in 10 Americans embrace at least one of these two authoritarian options.”

    We need to seriously upgrade our civics curriculum and raise voter participation or we’re going to end up losing this experiment of a government for, of and by the people and its not even 250 years old yet.

    Liked by 4 people

    • junkyardawg41

      Excellent post Derek. Over the years, there has been lot of things I agree with you on and then there are things you post that I am diametrically opposed to. Having said that, you point out so many things here that are spot on in my opinion. If I may, I am going to add my clarification. I believe both Democrats and Republicans (not liberal and conservative ideology — but the parties as institutions) feed at the same trough. Pro police is good business on one side. Working the court system is good business on the other side.
      I think what is really sad is the sensationalized headlines (not just in the last week) across all news platforms that creates narratives and in turn becomes people’s truth. I think this directly leads to lazy thought and encourages the 30% of people to believe the authoritarian is the way to go.

      Like

    • truck

      Derek nailed it, even he did have to use a movie quote as an assist. 😆 The Duopoly, or as my buddy calls it, the Political-Industrial Complex, has citizens in stranglehold. We desperately need a viable third party.

      Like

      • Derek

        A third party that will also be beholden to the money?

        As long as money is defined as speech, we’re fucked.

        The country has been purchased by a few to guard over, exploit and “vulturize” the populace. A veneer of freedom and choice is permitted as a means of mollifying the masses to accept their respective fates.

        We’re not people. We’re wallets. We’re numbers on a spreadsheet. Assets and liabilities.

        “Its a big club and you’re not in it.”

        George Carlin

        Like

        • truck

          So the solution is…what? Give up? That choice doesn’t interest me. I think we stand a better chance of finding principled candidates within a viable third party than we do with the cardboard cutouts who’ve been groomed by the Partycrats.

          Like

          • Derek

            I think one of the parties is interested in limiting the influence of money. But as long as its there every party will be beholden to it.

            Giving up is just giving the bastards a reason to ignore you. That’s never the correct option.

            Figure out your priorities and vote for the lesser of the two evils.

            Because we don’t have a parliamentary system, 3rd parties aren’t the way. One party may die but in its place will be two parties.

            Liked by 1 person

    • Napoleon BonerFart

      Brave Democrats invested in giving up power.

      What’s our source for economic and political history? The fictional character Gordon Gecko. That’s why we’re leftists. Wealth isn’t created. It’s just seized and redistributed. You think this country needs to produce things? Of course not. We can all be community organizers and lawyers. Problem solved.

      Any “facts” to the contrary are just racist and fucking stupid, you fuckers. Our middle school economics and Hollywood dramas trump your statistics, morals, and real world examples.

      So hear us when we scream, “REEEEeeeEEE!11!!!!1!!”

      Like

      • S

        From what I can tell, you traffic a lot more in snark than you do statistics, morals, or real world examples. You don’t have the track record to hold yourself up as the voice of reason, frankly.

        Like

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          That’s because those things are racist. Studying class mobility among wealth quintiles in the United States, as some economists have done, would show that people rarely stay in a particular quintile. Some may be poor children, earn good livings as middle aged adults, and then retire to lower earnings. And this would understandably move them up and down in wealth quintiles.

          But that’s not dramatic. Can you imagine Gordon Gecko making a speech stating, “Only 11.7% of the ultra high-net-worth individuals in 2017 inherited their wealth?” Of course not. As another poster pointed out, we need our dopamine!

          So fuck reason you fucking fuckers! Stunning and brave middle schoolers have decided that facts, reason, and logic don’t apply to us. Truth is what we say it is!

          Like

  19. WIll (the other one)

    While police are strongly associated with “protect and serve” what’s interesting is several cases where they’ve argued they don’t actually have to protect us, chiefly Warren v. District of Columbia and Lozito v. New York City.

    My one other thought is: this pandemic is going to put a hurt on city and state budgets, and unlike the Federal government, printing more money is not an option. The last thing we need is cuts to other parts of the budget to increase already-high policy budgets. If you want the conservative/libertarian argument, I’d say “$200+ million for police and malls still were looted, couldn’t some of that money be better spent elsewhere?”

    Like

  20. RangerRuss

    The problem with police is who is being hired. People. People are no gotdam good. Individuals can be excellent in every way. They can also be sociopaths with a badge and a gun. Until there is a means of weeding out said psychos or simply giving time off to a good man having a bad day problems will continue.

    Like

    • PTC DAWG

      Frankly, we don’t pay Police enough for what they are expected to do…most of the time, the job is ho-hum…simple traffic stops, etc..but when it really hits the fan, it gets serious very fast…requires some very quick thinking on your feet for sure. That’s my take.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Paul

        And where I live the cops are all in cars by themselves. No partners anymore. So, we seriously underpay them and send them out into harms way alone. What could go wrong? A partner is no guarantee of more reasonable policing but it could help. Obviously, extra police did nothing to deescalate this situation. Partners can also give feedback to the boss. Unfortunately, even inside the department, police are very hesitant to regulate their own. So in addition to systemic racism we have multiple layers of issues that have to be dealt with before any of this gets better. Legal issues, organizational issues, political issues, societal issues and heart issues. At the end of the day the only person I can change is me. As we each look inward, are we willing to admit we need to change? Most of us like to believe we’re “good” people. Admitting that we need to change challenges that assumption. And that tends to make people uncomfortable.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Nashville West

        Afraid that I have to differ with you, at least here in California. The median salary for a patrolman in California is $63,000 plus full medical and pension. They can retire at age 50 and many do, not a bad deal for a high school diploma and a few months in the academy.

        Having said that, I don’t think that I would want to do their job and I agree that something needs to change. But I don’t think that the answer is to throw more money at the problem.

        An interesting note, the cops that were fired in Minneapolis would probably still be on the payroll here (although off duty with full pay). The process for disciplining a public employee is extensive and can take months, even years to complete. But that isn’t likely to change, the police and correctional officers unions are major political donors.

        I will continue to pray that we find answers and solutions that are just and fair to all.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Go Dawgs!

          According to Google, the median household income in California is $75,277. $63K goes a long way in Georgia, not so much in California. Officers who police in the Bay Area have no hope of ever being able to live anywhere close to where they police, for example. Being able to retire from the job at 50 is nice, but they’ll be getting another job as soon as they do. We don’t pay our police enough in the overwhelming majority of communities.

          The city where I live used to have a much higher tax base than the surrounding region and the police department paid BY FAR more money than surrounding agencies. They were able to be very selective and they got better educated and better trained officers as a result and those officers stayed a long time. A recession came and the police department’s budget was slashed. Other agencies caught up in pay as our city fell back to the pack, and our department was no longer at the front of the line for hires. The quality of applicants began to slip, and officer retention became difficult as the brightest officers jumped ship to go to state or federal jobs that offered higher pay and pensions (our city eliminated the pension for new hires). If you want to solve the problems of policing, part of the equation is getting better cops onto the streets. That involves spending money and making the profession attractive to people who wouldn’t consider putting on a badge today. If you want a better team, you get better players.

          Like

    • Muttley

      The means is very easy: hold his boss accountable for knowing whether he’s fit or not: find the guy who sent a psycho out there armed and badged, despite a folder full of complaints, and tell that bastard to clean out his desk and lawyer up.

      Like

  21. PTC DAWG

    Protest all you want, peacefully and lawfully.

    That said, a Dem Cop is arrested for Murder on a perp in a Dem City in a Dem State and everyone is mad at Trump. Makes perfect sense.

    What happened to “Social Distancing” all of a sudden? Why no condemnation of the “protesters” actions in that regard? Did I miss where the Senator called them out? Sure is handy that the folks throwing bricks are wearing masks.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Derek

      Peaceful protesters can be gassed to clear the way for a trump photo op tho right?

      The constitution yields for orange clown man with unread bible.

      Liked by 2 people

      • RangerRuss

        You’re a disinformation parrot.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Derek

          Idiot. Find any source that says that the people who were cleared out of trumps way were not peaceful protesters. Idiot.

          Like

        • My question is why did they need to clear them out in the first place? I hadn’t seen (and feel free to correct me) any reports of them not protesting peacefully prior to them being pushed out of the way. I’m not as informed on this particular event as some, but I saw that they were able to construct a fence up pretty quickly overnight around the park. Why not wait to do that and then the next day you don’t need to force people out of the way and Trump can have his Rose Garden moment. And what’s the point of a random picture in front of church if it causes you to forcibly move people out of the way? I dunno, that whole incident didn’t need to happen, and frankly anyone saying that the protestors were at fault just want to continue to control an incorrect narrative, at least from where I’m sitting.

          Like

          • According to the WH, which looks like post op recovery honestly, AG bar had directed a one block perimeter around the White House and that was part of clearing out the streets.

            I would say that that might be true, but this White House has a very bad handling of optics this week.

            Like

    • I don’t know if the man accused of killing Floyd is a Democrat, but the head of his union sure isn’t.

      Liked by 1 person

  22. Greg

    Came here to read about the sports world and comments….to get away from what is “dominating” the news, a break.

    Oh well, will come back later. Great sports blog, wish it would stay that way…..but it is yours, your prerogative.

    Like

    • Derek

      I came here to read a little bitch whine needlessly. Thanks!

      Like

    • Came here to read about the sports world and comments….to get away from what is “dominating” the news, a break.

      Oh well, will come back later. Great sports blog, wish it would stay that way…..but it is yours, your prerogative.

      Oh, look — it’s my favorite evergreen Playpen comment!

      Liked by 2 people

    • Texas Dawg

      It is a great SPORTS blog other than the playpen. The playpen is unique to allow all those that needed to vent about things other than sports to have a place once a week to do it and not pollute the sports portion. The playpen is close to (but not totally) a free fire zone. If you are on here regularly you will see people try to sneak in things during the week only to be told to save it for the playpen. If you enter the playpen, have a thick skin. If you don’t stay out and enjoy all the other back and forth about SPORTS with the EXCEPTION of the playpen

      Like

    • Go Dawgs!

      Give me a break. There are four or five other posts on this here blog about the foosballs and the points scorins, you intentionally clicked on the one post that isn’t on that topic and made a comment.

      Like

  23. I am not a gun guy. I fish, but don’t hunt. I have a couple of shotguns for home protection, and I only bought the 2nd one to help out a friend who was short on cash and offered it up for sale. That said, I watched a video of a riot out in San Jose where they apparently stopped traffic on a freeway. People were busting windows and even demanding some get out of their cars. I went out and bought a 9mm pistol on Monday and plan to carry it my truck when I travel. I also plan to buy ones for my wife and daughter. I never liked the idea of having a gun in my possession in public, even though I qualified on the 9mm while in the Air Force. These times have changed my mind.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Derek

      Not driving into a riot isn’t a reasonable option is it?

      Like

      • Normaltown Mike

        not rioting on the highway is another?

        Liked by 2 people

      • mddawg

        Maybe what starts as a protest devolves into a riot? And not rioting isn’t a reasonable option?

        Like

      • Not really. The video I saw from San Jose, if accurate, looked as if they blocked a freeway and stalled commuters. It did not look to be downtown, and even if it was….WHAT THE FUCK GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO STOP TRAFFIC AND DAMAGE, THREATEN, INJUR THOSE WHO ARE INADVERTENTLY CAUGHT IN IT? Nothing does. Fuck them. If they get run over or shot blocking a highway, they deserve it.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Derek

          And if you run out of ammo and get beaten to death?

          I’m not unsympathetic to what you are saying by the way. I can’t imagine much being more frightening than ending up in that spot and yes Im running over whatever.

          But generally speaking if you pay attention to the news you can avoid these things without being in that situation.

          I personally have always thought that this wisdom from Mr. Miyagi was particularly profound: “best way block punch is no be there.”

          My driving around with a gun everyday is unlikely to be be used in the scenario you describe. More likely I’d end up shooting someone for far less. On more than one occasion Ive been happy that i didn’t have a gun handy while on the highway.

          We pretend that guns = safety. I think that’s way overstated. Guns more often mean escalation, mistake and regret.

          Liked by 1 person

          • tenesseewasnevergreat

            This is why we need large capacity clips and government subsidized ammunition.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Napoleon BonerFart

            Now do short skirts and rape.

            Liked by 2 people

          • Jim

            Derek, given your general temperament behind the keyboard from the safety of your mothers basement, i figured you for a meek, submissive type in person. I guess i shouldn’t be surprised it looks like you may be prone to fits of rage. I’m glad you are at least mature enough to recognize you aren’t mature enough to have a gun.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Derek

              Oh, I have a gun. I just don’t feel the need to carry one around 24/7.

              You should stop figuring. You’re nowhere near accurate ya dumb ass.

              Like

              • Napoleon BonerFart

                Right. Derek is every bit the bad ass in the back seat of his mom’s SUV that he is in her basement! Just because he’s prone to psychotic rage doesn’t mean he’s not smarter than you. You fuckers!

                Like

          • Gurkha Dawg

            Run out of ammunition Derek? Believe me, once you put 2 in the chest of the first guy and he hits the ground like a sack of wet laundry and then scan to acquire your second target all you will see is ass and elbows of everyone else running away. You’ll still have plenty of ammo if there are one or two dumbasses still willing to fuck with you.

            Like

            • It always works out exactly like it does in the movies.

              Except when it doesn’t.

              Like

            • RangerRuss

              I’m always amused at the look on the face of little girls such as Derek who choose to step into the world of men and let their alligator mouth overload their squirrelly little ass and get the shit slapped out of em. Not punched. Bitch slapped. Lying there shocked and hurt with a bit of blood mixed with drool and tears running down his rapidly swelling lips, eye closing, ears ringing. Developing that fat face not just fat lip. You know what you did to cause your pain and sniveling as you do it quite often in your circle of effete beta males. You got up in a man’s grill and screeched an insult and you ain’t even good at it. You’re vile drivel is more like a ninth grade remedial English student dissing her little brother.
              Then there you are looking up seeing double and about to puke from nausea. Yeeeeeah. You know that feeling don’t you, cupcake? I almost feel sorry for you. But I read the Playpen and your abusive diatribes, get that dopamine rush and lose all pity for your pathetic plight. The only sympathy you’ll get from Men is somewhere in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

              Like

      • awreed79

        They say they’re coming to the suburbs next. Should we not take them at their word?

        Liked by 1 person

        • Go Dawgs!

          They didn’t say that. Troll accounts on social media said that.Then at least one rural sheriff amplified that lie at a press conference so he could score cheap points with the electorate by suggesting that his residents could just shoot anyone that showed up.

          Like

          • awreed79

            I don’t really do social media. I saw it on the news. I’m too lazy to look up the clip, but it came straight from one of the looter’s mouth while being interviewed by a reporter.

            Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        Like

      • Jim

        I’ll avoid driving into a riot if at all possible. But if someone starts trying to break my window and pull me out of my vehicle reginald denny style they are going to get a face full of 124 grain +p real quick.

        “Just don’t drive into a riot” sounds so easy

        Liked by 2 people

      • Go Dawgs!

        A friend of mine was returning home to Atlanta from Kentucky on Tuesday night and very nearly was caught up in a demonstration on the interstate, but luckily got word in time to go around on 285. Woe be to those of us who maybe listen to podcasts instead of police radios while driving, right?

        Like

  24. FlyingPeakDawg

    Two men with unique backgrounds came to a horrible intersection. We can only guess at why George Floyd’s life brought him to pass a counterfeit bill. Poverty? Lack of education? Systematic racism? Drugs? Evil? Innocence? None or all of this could be true, but we are doing a horrible job as a society to address these possible causes and prevent further tragedy.

    What led the police officer to use force in that manner? What happened to “turn around and place your hands behind you”? Training for terrorism? Fear? Racism? Anger? Mental exhaustion from all of the pressure and conflicting responsibilities we’ve put on our law enforcement agencies?

    The usual narrative is a “good” cop stopped a “bad” man to protect society. Not only did this get flipped on its ear, but we’ve blurred the lines so poorly on what a civil society is which we seek to protect, how can we not continue to expect such outcomes?

    For now I’ll take a pass on further examination and default to what many here at GTP do….

    …I blame Bobo.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. junkyardawg41

    “If you are a skeptic about institutionalized racism, I strongly recommend reading this Radley Balko post. The math is the math.”
    If the definition of institutionalized racism is about outcomes, I am definitely not a skeptic — it exists. Having said that, I have struggled over the past 2 days to understand the current definition of racism. The reading I have done leaves me more confused than enlightened. I also read the Balko post and the underlying data behind it. It is quite clear and stark — although it is now 6-11 year old data. I would love to see a more current data set that illustrates Are we getting better,worse, or staying the same with regard to outcomes?

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Geezus

    Wow, 9:30 and only 43 responses?!?!

    Like

  27. FrozenDawg

    It is surprising to me that some folks in our community can look at all the lawlessness that has ravaged multiple cities throughout the United States over the last 5 nights and honestly think we’re too authoritarian? Do the rights of the people whose businesses were looted and destroyed, the cops who were shot…run over in the streets…the police men and women who were assaulted by wild mobs, the retired police chief (African American) who was murdered on a side walk, the innocent shop owners/home owners beaten nearly to death by the riotous mobs…what about their rights? Are we too authoritarian for wanting the law to be equally applied to all the citizenry? I think the majority of people (of all races, creeds, and colors) are tired of this horse shit that has been going on the last few nights in urban America. It’s time for it to end…all the “peaceful “ protesting has been done, they have chanted enough, let’s let cooler heads prevail.

    Liked by 1 person

    • illini84

      “They” have chanted enough. Perfect.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Derek

      How many chants are allowed per non-judicial execution?

      Lets set a rule and enforce it. By killing Americans who violate it.

      Like

      • FrozenDawg

        So you get to make the rules and enforce them? I don’t think by asking for cooler heads to prevail that I am being extreme. But you advocating murder, well that’s reasonable.

        Like

        • illini84

          And you get to say when “they” have protested enough?

          Like

          • FrozenDawg

            Like a dog with a bone…no what I typed was “ I think the majority of people (of all races, creeds, and colors) are tired of this“…this is just my take; and it’s certainly not my call by any stretch to end the riots…I think it makes sense to save lives and property, which is a basic function of government…but just because I vent contrarian to what you think, you have to pile on and once again try to veil racism into my comment…

            Like

            • Napoleon BonerFart

              It’s dog whistle racism. By stating that you don’t like the peaceful protests that are occurring, you’re proving yourself to be racist. Respecting property rights is racist. If a young white nationalist believes that a new flat screen will assuage his suffering, who are you to suggest otherwise? A Nazi, that’s who.

              Like

    • Rebar

      “Are we too authoritarian for wanting the law to be equally applied to all the citizenry?” Are we all treated as George was?

      Like

      • FrozenDawg

        I should hope not, but honestly I don’t know, because like many who are typing here, I haven’t been arrested. What happened to Mr. Floyd was murder, full stop. And I pray his murder is fully adjudicated and his family receives as much justice as can be given for him criminally and civilly. I also pray that the destruction that has been ravaging so many of our large cities and their residents stops…I don’t see those two things as mutually exclusive.

        Like

  28. Union Jack

    “Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and establish such creative tension that a community that has consistently refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. I just referred to the creation of tension as a part of the work of the nonviolent resister. This may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly worked and preached against violent tension, but there is a type of constructive nonviolent tension that is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. So, the purpose of direct action is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation.” – Martin Luther King, Jr. (Letter from a Birmingham Jail)

    Click to access letter_birmingham_jail.pdf

    Like

    • Union Jack

      “We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have never yet engaged in a direct-action movement that was “well timed” according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “wait.” It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This “wait” has almost always meant “never.” It has been a tranquilizing thalidomide, relieving the emotional stress for a moment, only to give birth to an ill-formed infant of frustration. We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.” We have waited for more than three hundred and forty years for our God-given and constitutional rights.” – Martin Luther King, Jr (Letter From a Birmingham Jail)

      Like

      • Union Jack

        “I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
        In your statement you asserted that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But can this assertion be logically made? Isn’t this like condemning the robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery?” – Martin Luther King, Jr (Letter from a Birmingham Jail)

        Like

        • Union Jack

          One final quote – “Oppressed people cannot remain oppressed forever. The urge for freedom will eventually come. This is what has happened to the American Negro. Something within has reminded him of his birthright of freedom; something without has reminded him that he can gain it. Consciously and unconsciously, he has been swept in by what the Germans call the Zeitgeist, and with his black brothers of Africa and his brown and yellow brothers of Asia, South America, and the Caribbean, he is moving with a sense of cosmic urgency toward the promised land of racial justice. Recognizing this vital urge that has engulfed the Negro community, one should readily understand public demonstrations. The Negro has many pent-up resentments and latent frustrations. He has to get them out. So let him march sometime; let him have his prayer pilgrimages to the city hall; understand why he must have sit- ins and freedom rides. If his repressed emotions do not come out in these nonviolent ways, they will come out in ominous expressions of violence. This is not a threat; it is a fact of history. So I have not said to my people, “Get rid of your discontent.” But I have tried to say that this normal and healthy discontent can be channeled through the creative outlet of nonviolent direct action. Now this approach is being dismissed as extremist.” – Martin Luther King, Jr (Letter from a Birmingham Jail)

          Like

  29. atlasshrugged55

    28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
    29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12: 28-31

    It’s time we respect one another & the property of others.

    Like

    • Derek

      and yet your name comes from an author who was a devout atheist?

      “And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
      This god, this one word: I.”

      Ayn Rand

      Like

  30. Gurkha Dawg

    IMHO a huge problem with holding police accountable is that they cover up for each other. Often other officers are the only witnesses besides the accused. Body cams help when turned on. All professions do this. I’ve witnessed physicians do the same. How many lawyers have been successfully sued for malpractice? How many lawyers practice includes suing other attorneys for malpractice? I would guess not a whole lot. I don’t have an answer, it seems to be human nature.

    Like

  31. Can we get rid of no knocks while were at it? At least the middle of the night, wearing plain clothes type?

    I can see some scenarios for a no knock, but that should involve heavy surveillance, heavy oversight, and the most train specially folks of a police force.

    Like

    • Anonymous

      I can’t think of any scenario that justifies a no-knock warrant. The “justification” is that they are worried that they will flush the drugs. Just block the sewer before you knock. If they are concerned about a shootout, they can always wait for the guy to go on a beer run.

      Like

      • There have been some scenarios where, drug dens if you will, were damn near fortresses. But thats extremely rare in actuality.

        I am all about setting the perimeter , removing non suspects turning off utilities…. And patience.

        There’s also tremendous surveillance techniques to asses.

        Like

      • AthensHomerDawg

        Just block the sewer before you knock???

        Like

        • Anonymous

          If you are worried about them flushing the drugs, blocking their section of the sewer will capture the drugs if they flush them. You can then knock and announce that you are the police and you are serving a search warrant. The issue has been when the cops conduct a “no knock” warrant, they either go to the wrong place or the occupants rightfully assume they are the victim of a home invasion and shoot the cops. I should never read a story like from Clarkesville where the cops busted into the wrong house and threw a concussion grenade into a crib with an infant.

          Liked by 1 person

  32. Busta

    Thank you very much Senator as well others who posted. I had a good bit to add, but because of my profession, I don’t really have the freedom of speech. What I will say is that in all professions you have people who get appointed rank, positions and titles. When you have people with character flaws, biased views on what a bad guy or the enemy looks like in these positions/ranks/titles in which they can carry out their ideas, well we know. Often times you can see people without a spine get a badge, rank or position transform into a dictator.

    As pointed out by Derek, I do believe wealth plays a huge part in this situation just as much race does. Wealth, rank, position and titles easily convince people that they’re better than others. We have police that think they can not only judge someone because of their position but also preconceived notions. If they can’t be trained, they need to be held accountable for their actions. People and organizations are afraid to admit fault and try to cover up as much as they can, happens everywhere. Holding yourself and those under/employed by you accountable is powerful, that in itself is an effective training tool.

    I don’t agree with destroying everything and looting, maybe those doing so think it’ll have an impact on the wealthy. We used to say “In GOD we trust”, but it’s all about the dollar and clout. We really need accountability (actual accountability) for pretty much everything. Without that, we look just like those “3rd world shithole countries” where anything goes.

    Liked by 2 people

  33. Dylan Dreyer's Booty

    “Somehow, in too many places, we’ve allowed police to mutate from “protect and serve” to occupiers in our midst. “

    Good post, Senator, but I want to talk about this some. Yes, the movement to provide local law enforcement with surplus military equipment has ramped that attitude up in recent years, but the concept is pretty old. In 1978 when I was a young DA the investigator in that office – who had been a police officer – referred to the police as paramilitary. This was a bright guy, a nice guy and he eventually went on to the GBI and has probably retired by now. But he was as serious at the time as he could possibly be.

    To a certain extent, we want the police to be that, and by ‘we’ I mean all of us. We hope and depend on the police to protect us so that we can live peaceful productive lives and won’t have to be vigilantes. To me the problem isn’t so much that the local law enforcement gets surplus military equipment, the problem is that they don’t get the rules of engagement that the military has for their own use of said equipment.

    Plus, the equipment doesn’t kill that many people, although it does foster an attitude I suspect. All the police that I am aware of have knees. Aside from handcuffs (also common) no expensive destructive military equipment was needed to kill George Floyd. Or Arbery (not active police, I admit). Or any number of people. What killed them was a lack of common decency, and simple respect. If we can find a way to that we can solve a lot, but it is also an elusive goal.

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Anonymous

    In my estimation, we are still a few generations away from being able to have an adult conversation on race as a society. In the near term, the Use of Force Project has done the work to evaluate what training programs, procedures, etc. are actually effective at reducing police violence. Society won’t talk about these things since we will be too busy accusing each other of having bad intentions, but, hopefully, these events will get the higher-ups within law enforcement to seek and implement these policies. Also, this will hopefully let us have the adult conversation a little sooner.

    http://useofforceproject.org/#project

    Like

  35. illini84

    Dale Murphy says that police in Denver shot his son in the face with a rubber bullet as he protested peacefully over the death of George Floyd.

    The seven-time MLB All-Star and Atlanta Braves icon announced the news on Twitter late Sunday, writing that the incident occurred Saturday night.

    Last night, my son was shot in the eye with a rubber bullet while peacefully protesting for justice for George Floyd. His story is not unique. Countless others have also experienced this use of excessive police force while trying to have their voices heard.

    — Dale Murphy (@DaleMurphy3) June 1, 2020
    Murphy then tweeted a photo of his son showing the injury under his left eye.

    pic.twitter.com/1Oxjw2latl

    Liked by 1 person

    • PTC DAWG

      I think if you show up at an impromptu protest, no permits etc…you never know what may happen.

      Liked by 1 person

      • illini84

        Fucking right, goddamn libs deserve to be shot in the face anyway.

        Like

      • mddawg

        I think you’re being awfully generous in suggesting that the results would’ve been different if the protested had been planned & permitted. Assuming the article is correct in describing this as a peaceful protest, it’s hard to understand what justified them firing at civilians, even with rubber bullets.

        Like

  36. illini84

    Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Wednesday he doesn’t support invoking the Insurrection Act, an 1807 law that would allow President Donald Trump to send U.S. armed forces into states for the purpose of domestic law enforcement.

    “I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act,” Esper said at a news conference at the Pentagon. “The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most … dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now.”

    Like

  37. TN Dawg

    On a separate note, Johnny Majors is mort.

    Like

  38. Milton Dawg

    I think that what saddens me the most about this is that I realize how blind I have been to what has been happening. Not from the sense of not following the news or not being informed about what is going on or not understanding that there are segments of our society that are disadvantaged economically, politically, or socially, but saddened from the sense of understanding the emotional toll of what being black in America really means. Being the father of three teen boys in a largely white and rather affluent area, I have been struck by the true awfulness of being worried constantly about your children or your husband or your wife being out and about and perhaps being put in situations with law enforcement and others which might mean incarceration or worse for nothing more than the color of your skin. An AA man that lives two doors down from me is a former Auburn and NFL player and he and I were talking on Monday evening when he was coming back from a run and I was getting the mail. I mentioned this to him and he said that the fear he and his wife have for his children is very real and that they constantly have to have conversations with their teenagers about being hyper vigilant about the situations that they put themselves in. As I relayed that conversation to my wife with a voice cracking slightly, I told her how ashamed I was to realize that my conversations with my sons about being respectful young men, kind, and avoiding things like drugs and alcohol pale in comparison to having to have a conversation with your son about the fact that he is black means that not only should he be the things that I am trying to instill in my sons but also that he must understand that things other teens do might get him in life-changing or worse situations. Call me blinded by my white privilege, foolish, or other things, but I’m man enough to admit that the events of the last couple of weeks have opened my eyes tremendously to things that I either saw but didn’t admit or that I willfully turned my back to.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Russ

      Well said, and I feel the same. My AA friends tell me the same sad story. I can’t imagine having to worry about this all the time.

      Like

  39. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Many people are saying…

    Like

  40. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    the b-i-b-l-e that’s the book for me

    Liked by 1 person

  41. I normally avoid politics on here as I don’t really know anyone here. Senator, those were some pretty detailed links above with math to match the narrative for the protesting/looting. I don’t have time really today to study up on it but will try when I have some downtime.
    As a counter point, I thought this WSJ piece was interesting and paints a different picture. I’m not a math guy but I do know numbers can get twisted to make a point.

    The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

    Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.

    By Heather Mac Donald

    George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama-era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist. On Friday, Barack Obama tweeted that for millions of black Americans, being treated differently by the criminal justice system on account of race is “tragically, painfully, maddeningly ‘normal.’ ” Mr. Obama called on the police and the public to create a “new normal,” in which bigotry no longer “infects our institutions and our hearts.”

    Joe Biden released a video the same day in which he asserted that all African-Americans fear for their safety from “bad police” and black children must be instructed to tolerate police abuse just so they can “make it home.” That echoed a claim Mr. Obama made after the ambush murder of five Dallas officers in July 2016. During their memorial service, the president said African-American parents were right to fear that their children may be killed by police officers whenever they go outside.

    Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz denounced the “stain . . . of fundamental, institutional racism” on law enforcement during a Friday press conference. He claimed blacks were right to dismiss promises of police reform as empty verbiage.

    This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

    In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

    The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

    On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.

    The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.

    A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

    The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.

    The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd’s death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.

    Ms. Mac Donald is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and the author of “The War on Cops,” (Encounter Books, 2016).

    Liked by 3 people

    • https://www.alternet.org/2015/01/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed/

      Please explain….

      Like I said above I think that the police abuse poor people. I do think they get more trigger happy when dealing with African Americans.

      Do you know of any 12 year white kids being gunned down while holding a bb gun?

      Any white guys standing in walmart with a bb gun getting shot?

      Any chance that the stats are skewed because most blacks understand the choice is compliance or death whereas the white guys may think they can push their luck a bit and get away with it?

      I remember talking with a african american male who kept getting arrested for carrying a concealed weapon in his car. A misdemeanor record kept him from getting a conceal carry permit.

      I suggested to him that perhaps if the gun were on the seat that it wouldn’t be concealed and therefore he wouldn’t need a permit and maybe he should look into that as an option.

      The response?

      “I believe they’d shoot my ass.”

      If I had a gun in my passenger seat, I don’t think a cop would shoot me.

      If I were black, there’s no fucking way I’d push that.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I cannot recommend Radley Balko’s work enough. He’s been at it for years, first at Reason magazine, then at the WP.

      If police power abuse is of interest to you — and it should be! — he’s a must read.

      Liked by 1 person

    • TN Dawg

      Good info.

      It will fall on deaf ears.

      Liked by 1 person

    • junkyardawg41

      “Racist has followed that path. Today, racist means not only burning a cross on someone’s lawn or even telling someone to go home, but also what feels unpleasant to someone of a race—as in what I as a person of that race don’t like. It has gone from being mean to someone to, also, what feels mean to me.” —-https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/racism-concept-change/594526/

      The issue at the heart of the matter is definitions and having a shared definition across all people. If racism has morphed into the definition above, then you could conclude that police brutality and systemic police racism has as well.

      Like

    • I’ve seen some people say that we should have more of a sheriff system so that you can elect your police chief. And I wonder about the incident rates between sheriff department and the public versus police. I know my interactions with sheriff departments have been tremendously better.

      Like

      • Depends on the county, in a number of counties in Metro Atlanta (and many other cities), the sheriff is only responsible for serving warrants, the courthouse and the county jail due to the presence of a county police force. In many smaller counties, the sheriff is also responsible for policing the unincorporated portions of the county or where a town has no police force.

        Bottom line is sheriffs have to stand for election and are eventually responsible to the people of the county. Local police chiefs are only responsible to a city manager, mayor city council, or county commission.

        Even with all of that, there are plenty of corrupt sheriffs.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Union Jack

      Weird that Ms. MacDonald asserts that an endemically racist policing and justice system is an “Obama-era” narrative. I was unaware that the first 232 years of our country we had racial balance and harmony. Also unaware that the law enforcement system ceased being endemically racist post 2017 inauguration until it cropped up again on Memorial Day 2020 in Minneapolis.

      It is these kinds of opinion pieces that will always prevent real discussion on these issues. By invoking the former President, who has been out of office for almost 4 years now, the columnist has outlined a scapegoat for today’s problems rather than acknowledging that these issues go back across decades and centuries. It is the this type of intellectual dishonesty and laziness that makes me dismiss it without even finishing it.

      Above I posted excerpts from MLK’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. While some of the language is dated, the concepts are unfortunately still very similar and relevant. It is truly befuddling that our populace is either so lacking in basic historical knowledge that will never truly be able to deal with our issue or acts so obtuse to the circumstances because they do not desire change.

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      • junkyardawg41

        You are correct in what appears to be a biased article. Having said that, issues do go back across decades and centuries. The question is are they the same issues? Have we gotten better as a society? And when will we be able to say (and under what conditions), we have have truly improved as an American society.

        Like

  42. Its hell to follow these 200 comment threads

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  43. CB

    It’s not up to the good cops to weed out the few bad cops that are destroying their reputation. Like Chris Rock said, some jobs can’t afford to have bad apples. American Airlines can’t just have most of their pilots know how to land a plane. Has to be 100%

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    • As a pilot, I dont find that comparison apt, although i get what you’re getting at.

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    • TN Dawg

      Pay airline pilots $12 an hour and ask them to fly planes full of criminals and I think you’ll find you have something new to gripe about.

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      • CB

        Sounds like your gripe is with the pay scale.

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      • CB

        But then again I’ve never heard of a mandatory police officer draft so if they don’t like it they’re welcome to do something else.

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        • TN Dawg

          I’ve been told all my life that if you don’t pay teachers more, you get bad teachers and can’t attract good ones.

          Are police different?

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        • Go Dawgs!

          CB, if you’re paying police low wages then you end up with officers who can’t go do something else. That’s not good!

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          • CB

            Are you saying all police are bad?

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            • Napoleon BonerFart

              I think the point is that low compensation tends to attract low skilled labor. If you want police with college degrees in criminal justice and 10+ years experience, you can’t pay minimum wage.

              Although another issue with police compensation is that salary isn’t the entire story. Earning $50k a year is very different than earning $50k a year with a platinum health/dental/vision benefit program and promised lifetime pension of $35k a year upon retirement. That may be more like $80k a year total compensation.

              Liked by 1 person

              • CB

                That all goes without saying I’m just trying to figure out, given the salary, if all cops are bad. If that’s the case then perhaps they should be paid more. If not then pay might not be the root issues here.

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            • Go Dawgs!

              Not real sure how you could read what I said and see “all cops are bad.”

              No, what I’m saying is that the best and brightest are going to go where they have a chance to provide more for themselves and their families. Policing is an incredibly difficult job and it’s a thankless one – if you’re going to pay your officers less than they’d make at even so-called menial labor jobs, why in the world do you expect them to A) take the job and B) stay there for any length of time? A lot of good, qualified people who love the profession leave after a very short time just because of the compensation issue alone. If the pay sucks, your best people are going to leave. The people who stay are likely to be the people who don’t have the ability to go get a better job. That’s how you end up with a less educated and less skilled police force.

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              • CB

                I’m not opposed to paying police more, but if most cops are good (as I believe they are) then I don’t think payment is the main issue.

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    • CB

      Correction it IS up to the good cops to weed out the few bad caps.

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    • Derek

      Does consistency matter?

      Why is it excusable to punch people in the mouth because you get emotional, threaten to kill them next time, but watching person get extrajudicially executed is supposed to be met with “we shall overcome?”

      Why wasn’t trump’s response to interference with rallies one of peace and lawfulness?

      Shouldn’t the current protesters be held to the same standard as the president? If he thinks violence is a proportionate response to interference with his maga rally what is the proportionate response to George Floyd’s murder?

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    • TN Dawg

      Smartest man in the room.

      Like

  44. Honestly, I’d like tiered police units. For lots of reasons such as money and numbers and safety we’ve turned a cop in a shop into a mobile mechanized unit. In very often there is just one of them. Community safety officers that after 2 or 3 years become armed police officers would be great. But inevitably the unarmed community safety officer would get killed and it would be argued that they should be armored up.

    It’s like when you see that motorcycle chase and the motorcycle runs an intersection and the rider Rag dolls for 25 yds, has broken limbs concussion broken ribs, barely alive, and the cops run up and put handcuffs on, after yanking him around. Because the cops learned that 1 time they didn’t do that they got shot.

    George Floyd was handcuffed and subdued. With 4 other officers present. That is the major major difference here. The procedure at that point is to put him in the car. All those cops know that.

    I just wonder if the community safety officer had showed up and questioned Floyd about the use of a counterfeit bill, How that may have gone differently. And if Floyd escalates, then they call in for tier 2.

    By the way the tier one units would be subjected to tons and tons of training. Before they’re free to go armed solo.

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    • Napoleon BonerFart

      That’s definitely part of the problem. Police training has long focused on officer safety rather than public safety. And patrolling has been portrayed as going into battle against the enemy.

      Deescalation should be jobs 1, 2, and 3 for police. Lots of problems could be avoided by focusing on training public servants, rather than warriors.

      Liked by 1 person

      • That’s definitely part of the problem. Police training has long focused on officer safety rather than public safety. And patrolling has been portrayed as going into battle against the enemy.

        This was one of the major plot points in the third season of the Wire. There was no longer a sense that police were part of the community they were supposedly protecting and they looked at their jobs everyday as going to battle against an enemy. The Wire is mostly a work of fiction, but you can see how those ideas have manifested themselves in the absurd military cosplay we see police departments engaging in today and excessive brutality against the citizens they’re supposed to be serving and protecting.

        What they did in Camden, NJ should be a model for every police department across the country. Getting rid of the police unions that have been corrupted to the only point they actually serve anymore is to protect their members from accountability would also be nice.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I’m gonna tell you I’m very confused on the Union thing. The further left has always been big big big into unions and they are pushing unions once again today. Yet they want to get rid of police unions.

          I don’t think we need a revolving door and police units that would be very bad. I also think that Union power pendulum has swung it too far their way. Not sure how to bring some equilibrium

          Like

          • I get what you’re trying to say, but it’s a bit of a false argument to say that the only potential outcome for ALL unions is to either be good or bad.

            It’s not intellectually dishonest to believe that unions, in general, can and should serve an important role to provide representation for their members with management while at the same time acknowledging that certain unions have been corrupted to the point that their sole purpose is to shield their members from accountability.

            It’s also fair to distinguish between professions. Pipefitters aren’t an arm of the state that has been given the right to use deadly force against citizens. It’s only fair to say their union serves a much different purpose than a police union.

            Liked by 1 person

            • I never said that though. I said that wanting unions, except for the ones you dont want, is inconsistent. And I said police unions have swung into too much power.

              And obviously they are not all the same. But I dont like cherry picking “union here ok, union there not ok” ultimately these agencies have contracts that can be revised. But I think were mostly saying similar things.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Napoleon BonerFart

              Government unions, like police unions, fail to serve the public interest because both sides, workers and management, are on the same team. At a private company, management wants to maximize profit. Management can’t cut wages or harm working conditions too much because the quality of worker will decline, which will decrease profit. Workers want to maximize wages and benefits. But they can’t go too far because if profit is decreased too much, jobs will disappear.

              In government unions, both sides are playing with someone else’s money. Profit isn’t a consideration. Politicians are quick to increase worker benefits because it leads to campaign donations and votes. Workers don’t have to worry about benefits being too high because the government can’t go out of business.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Yeah honestly I didn’t think too deep on this being a government Union. Makes it all kinds of wacko.

                I’m fairly certain talking out of my butt that unions evolved in some of the major cities as a way to protect themselves till retirement. Same for fire department. But no government job is guaranteed. If you are elected you can be elected out. If you’re in the military you are absolutely not guaranteed retirement.

                Although a police unit would be badd to have a revolving door they most likely do need fresh blood more on the regular. To break up the cultures they develop.

                Good points

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              • doofusdawg

                Even Roosevelt thought the concept of public sector unions was crazy.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Hey loudmouth, make a meme about this! “Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

                Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”

                Mad Dog Mattis, USMC

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            • Having read comment below and thought about private versus public it’s really influenced my thinking.

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  45. BuffaloSpringfield

    Amen, Herschel !
    The issue he speaks of is that negative narration sells adds. We have been become either a person of Fox News or CNN/MSNBC. Actually all networks, newspapers and blogs have a slant to one side or the other. We have allowed bias to form our opinions.
    Two Wrongs never make anything RIGHT.
    The running down and murder of Aubry in Glenn County was beyond belief. That was February 23 and it took over two months to bring any sort of justice to a killing on the street.
    There was only maybe 30 seconds of cell phone video to prove that. Yes Aubry had a blemish or two on his record. If I remember correctly the elder McMichal was involved or at least knew something previously about Aubrey but there was no reason or authority for this to happen.
    Now George Loyd moved from Houston to Minneapolis to straighten out his life and being close to his brother. For trying to pass a $20 counterfeit bill he lost his life. Did he even know the bill was counterfeit ? The thing I do know Aubry stopped by a house in construction for a drink of water perhaps. What George was trying to by I have no idea.
    This is a point of change. This morning as gruesome as I have never done so before I read the autopsy report from Glenn County, Georgia. It can be found on the Jacksonville TV station news web site. Aubry was shot 2 times in the chest cavity at close range. ( so close in fact the plastic shell casing of one load was embedded in in lung ) A third shot tore through a portion of his wrist. No substance was found in his system.
    Note: I said two wrongs don’t make a right.
    George Lloyd’s system contained alcohol, fentanyl and meth. I saw one video and again there was no need for this man to die as he did. Most videos shows George on the ground outside of passenger side of the patrol car with the 3 officers forcing him to the ground. The last video I saw was from a store front camera on the driver’s side where 3 officers were trying to get Mr. Lloyd into the back seat. It’s frantic and all of a sudden and I can’t see what happens the passenger door opens opposite of the camera view and kicking and screaming occurs till Mr. Lloyd is forced to the ground.
    That being said emotions run high and adrenaline kicks in. Officers see things that can’t be unseen. Our military does the same as on average we have 22 veterans a day commit suicidal ends. As Herschel just states the moment a brick or rock is thrown, a store front window is broken, a line is drawn and that line is either your right or your wrong. Our media, our political parties have erased that line to where if you don’t believe what I believe your trash. Herschel said “ it’s not white or black, nor is it Democratic or Republican. It’s about a race. The human race and if we don’t find the ability to agree to disagree and shake hands all contestants in this race are going to be disqualified because they are not part of the human race.
    R.I.P.
    George
    Aubry

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Busta

    Senator I want to thank you for the playpen. This’s my first time ever coming into the playpen as a long time reader. For me, this is a very great thing to have especially with the rules you’ve set as well with most of the members we have on here. I don’t do the social media thing, so it really did feel great to be able to have some form of expressing myself and also hearing some very civilized and intelligent expressions from others on here. Thanks for all that you do. Be careful out there and stay healthy (all of you). Thanks again Senator and to all of you mangy mutts out there.

    Liked by 2 people

  47. Is this your homework Larry?

    Protests, rioting, and looting have occurred throughout history and usually occur when a group of wronged people want change when their grievances are ignored.

    In Minneapolis police brutality grew steadily from 2003 until now, reaching an all-time high in 2018.

    Peaceful and lawful methods were used by citizens for 8 years with their complaints falling on deaf ears. Since 2012 only 1.4% of complaints filed against Minneapolis police offers resulted in disciplinary action with many complaints ignored or never processed.

    The city was a powder keg ready to blow with one spark. That spark happened.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Florida goes phase 2 Friday. As we have mostly acted like there was never a phase one, the bars will be nuts. Impossible to enforce. Beach gonna be wild.

    Like

  49. The Dawg abides

    An Oklahoma State linebacker has reported that he has tested positive for the virus. He suspects he contracted it while participating in protests in Tulsa last week. He’s most assuredly not the only one. I have no idea how things are pan out when players resume team workouts later this month. I doubt anyone does.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. TimberRidgeDawg

    Late for the Wednesday playpen but I think you pretty much hit it out of the park. Well said.

    Like