Your 6.10.20 Playpen

This seems like the quintessential Playpen topic.

First, given how Clay Travis has hackishly (and profitably, I presume) whined about politics affecting sports fandom for a while now, involving him in a discussion like this is irony so rich it’s almost beyond words.  (And, no, for once, I do not digress.)

Second, I know Shapiro is young, but politics has been intertwined with sports in the modern era for decades:  the 1936 Berlin Olympics, integration, Cassius Clay’s refusal to submit to the draft, the 1968 Olympics… hell, the list goes on and on.  It’s nothing new.

Third, he doesn’t come right out and say it, but I strongly suspect what he really disapproves of are politics that don’t align with his impacting sports.  Doubt me?  I don’t follow every comment of his, but, as an example, I don’t think you’ll find a tweet or podcast where he complains about the NFL decision to have the players on the field for the Anthem.

Anyway, here’s an explicit example of that:

They’re making money stirring up the rubes, so I get it.  That’s America.  Besides, and to be fair, if a particular political expression intertwined with sports does comport with your personal leanings, at the least, it probably doesn’t interfere with your entertainment and may even enhance your experience.

But does what we’re witnessing now really affect your perception of sports and your level of passion for them?  I mean, Herschel Walker and Mike Leach are Trump supporters and I couldn’t care less about that in terms of how I take their sporting accomplishments.  But that’s just me; your mileage may certainly vary.

If you are a “shut up and dribble” sort, okay, but if so, aren’t you really saying that your selfish interest in being entertained is more important than the entertainers’ interest in expression of their beliefs?  After all, they’re folks just like you — folks with opinions.  Beyond that, do you expect the entertainers to buy into your point of view?

I’m not being snarky with those of you who disagree with me here.  I am curious how far you are prepared to take it, though.  Those of you who found fault with Kaepernick’s stance and mocked Nike’s support for it, how will Georgia’s and other college football teams’ embrace of Black Lives Matter (using that label in the larger sense of what is the subject of protests now) affect your desire to watch the sport going forward?  Do Drew Brees’ comments about kneeling or the blow back Drew Brees received for them make you less willing to watch the NFL now?  (I know, but work with me here.)  Share in the comments.

Speaking of which, a gentle reminder about how should you interact with your fellow commenters seems apropos about now.  Don’t make me come in there and get you.

237 Comments

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237 responses to “Your 6.10.20 Playpen

  1. Dawg with a Question

    I hope it’s ok to ask an unrelated question, I’ve been waiting on the playpen. Any folks on here knowledgeable on unemployment benefits? This is gonna be a little long, I apologize.

    I work with a company that owns a bunch of fast food franchises, I’m in management so I’m salary. Been working through the whole coronavirus episode, nothing changed for me as we were considered “essential”.

    All of a sudden a week ago or so, a bunch of us get a letter in the mail outlining our unemployment benefits. Everyone who got it has been working this entire time, and it was a mixture of salary and hourly workers. A couple of days later, I get a prepaid debit card in the mail from the Dept of Labor with like $3k loaded on it (they had gone back a couple of months and deposited it all at once). Everyone who got that letter also got cards, or if they already had an unemployment card from before, it now had money loaded on it. Nobody in upper management seemed to have any answers as to why this was happening.

    Finally, yesterday we get a response from our HR and it says the following:

    “All GA employers have been required to file partial claims on behalf of full and part time employees who may have had reduced hours as a result of COVID 19. Due to the fact we had no way to individually identify who had reduced hours, we have submitted partial claims for all store employees and are continuing to do so each pay period until further notice. It is 100% up to the State of GA whether or not benefits are paid, and all questions should be directed to the GA Dept of Labor”.

    Now, some of our hourly employees did in fact lose out on hours because for a while there, we were opening later and closing earlier than usual. However, again I am salary, my pay has been the same through the whole thing. Some of us have called the Dept of Labor and they aren’t helpful either, they tell us to ask our employer since the company filed on our behalf.

    So what the heck do I do with this money? Am I likely to have to pay it back? Or is it simply that I’d have to report it on my taxes and it may affect how much I get back/owe? Since I’m salary, I’m worried somebody (the state) is gonna come asking for it back at some point, but I don’t know how any of this works, I’ve never drawn unemployment before, and definitely not while I was working. Sorry for the long post, but any knowledgeable advice would be appreciated.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Your taxes don’t know when you were working and not working. Take the money, fill out your taxes appropriately as required. I don’t think you have to pay taxes on a benefit But even if you did it wouldn’t be that much. Honestly your company did a rare good thing to help its people

      Like

    • Happy Dawg

      Interesting predicament. Let me start off by saying I am an accountant (retired), and my CPA license is active although I have not practiced as a public accountant in over 20 years. And as my father used to say “This advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it.”

      If you do have an accountant or a tax preparer you use on a regular basis, I would talk with them. Alternatively, I would go the the GA DOL website and figure out how to contact the Labor Commissioner or someone on his/her staff.

      Since the funds are on a card, I would put the card in a safe place (safe deposit box) or transfer the funds into a new, separate account and avoid any other activity in that account, at least until you received credible advice as to how to handle the matter.

      Good luck.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Dawg with a Question

        Yeah my taxes are pretty straightforward every year, so TurboTax is the closest thing I have to an accountant, ha. Going the Labor Commissioner route is a good suggestion though. Thank you.

        Like

    • stoopnagle

      Ideally you could give it to an organization helping those who lost their jobs so the money gets to people who desperately need it.

      Practically, you might want to save it in case your employer or the state ask for it back because of their error.

      Like

      • Dylan Dreyer's Booty

        This. When we got our $2400 stimulus deposit, the wife and I thought: we don’t need this. But we also figure that we’re going to taxed on it as if it were income. We gave half of it to the local food bank, and the other half just put in savings. We kind of figure that the tax on it will not be more than 50%.

        Like

        • Dawg with a Question

          Yeah I’m not worried about being taxed on it. I’m worried about them saying I never should have received it, and I have to pay it all back. Whether I’ve given it away or spent it, the result is the same, if they ask for it back and I don’t have it, I’m in trouble. Gonna reach out to the labor commissioner and see what they say. If I find out that everything is above board, I think donating part of it is a great idea.

          Like

    • Geezus

      If it is an unemployment payout, yes, it is taxed as income.

      I would throw it in a money market account and let it build a little interest while I tried to figure out what I wanted to do with it.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Sanford222view

    Watching the fuse burn across the floor…

    Like

  3. Ben

    What kills me (and someone else already pointed it out) is that Shapiro is upset that his “safe space” is gone after people like him have made fun of others for years for their desire for a “safe space” of their own.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. Anonymous

    “My place of comfort has been removed from me.”

    Lol.

    Isn’t this the crowd that says no one gets a safe space?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Reverend Whitewall

      I’m not far right by any means but do identify as conservative, and this was absolutely my first thought. Shapiro is one of the main guys mocking the need for “safe spaces”, especially on college campuses, then he basically goes and complains that HIS safe space has been taken away. But I guess it’s different that he calls his a “place of comfort”. Sheesh. I have no problem with people having an argument, but at least be consistent.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Derek

        There are those among us who, due to their lesser genetic qualities when combined with an unproven servility to the white man’s culture, mustn’t demand any “special treatment” such as a safe space. Conservatives make this point very clear.

        But people like Shapiro also know that safe spaces are reserved, much like a sky suite, for those among us who are entitled, by the accident of birth or lifetime achievement such as Justice Thomas or Ben Carson, and that “they” (see: frightening mongrel hordes) are determined and organized, with fear inducing names like antifa and Alinsky, to strip the generational benefactors of genocide, slavery and apartheid of their comfort, security and their safe spaces by whatever means necessary and to replace it with “egalitarianism” for everyone, no matter their skin tone, religion, sexual predilections and, even worse, before bowing down before the white man with gratitude in their hearts for his long track record of beneficence.

        Hell, they even got 75 year old men who will crack their skulls open on the sidewalk to make the police look at fault.

        Be afraid. Be very afraid!

        They’re coming for it all!!! We mustn’t let this line from the Declaration of Independence ever become reality!!!

        “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

        Scary indeed.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          “Only through violence and name calling can true tolerance ever be achieved.” – MLK (probably)

          Like

    • awreed79

      I may be wrong, but I believe Shapiro’s point about safe spaces is they shouldn’t exist on college campuses where there should be open debate and the free exchange of ideas, and where people will necessarily be challenged and even offended from time to time. I find that to be a crucial function of any institution dedicated to intellectual pursuit, so I on this point have to agree with him.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. heyberto

    Tell me anything you can enjoy right now? There is no escapism in anything public.. believe me I’ve tried to find it. Welcome to the world the rest of us .. now if you want that, go fishing or something.

    Like

    • stoopnagle

      True. It’s a discomfort that, for a lot of us, is way overdue.

      Like

    • Sanford222view

      You got that right. I was at a youth baseball tournament this weekend in Roberta, GA. Games were held at the Crawford Co. Rec. Dept. and CCHS. The games at the Rec Dept (12U and younger teams) were pretty normal aside from some parents wearing masks and social distancing but, the games at the High School (13U and older teams) were pretty tense from what I have been told from a friend whose son is on a 13U team. He said it was pretty uncomfortable and he felt uneasy because there was lots of vocal protesting during the games with fans yelling, “I can’t breathe!” and “Get off me!” during the games with regularity.

      I don’t have a problem with protesting and voicing the need for change, but I don’t understand why you would take your child to play in a baseball tournament and then create a tense environment like that for them to play in when I assume you wanted your child to enjoy playing a sport for the first time in months as a relief from the isolation created from sheltering in place we have all been experiencing. Taking your child to play baseball is supposed to be an escape for a few hours from all that is going on in the world, in my opinion. It is one thing to take your children to a protest to educate them and stand up for what you believe in but I don’t understand choosing this type of event to do so.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Harold Miller

        I don’t see how people yelling that at a baseball tournament think it is going to effect the change they want.

        Like

      • Silver Creek Dawg

        This is why I like refereeing youth soccer.

        GA Soccer put out a policy 2 years ago stating in unequivocal terms that if a spectator questions a referee decision (call or non-call), they can be immediately ejected from the park. Furthermore, the offender is required to appear in front of the Disciplinary Committee at GA Soccer headquarters in Atlanta on a Tuesday night. If, after the hearing, they are adjudged guilty, they face a minimum 4 game ban from every soccer park in the state.

        They are tired of losing referees, especially young ones.

        Like

  6. Go Dawgs!

    Sounds like ol’ Ben just needs athletes to start including trigger warnings so he knows when to go inside of his safe space.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

    True, but Senator, can you honestly tell me that the local Barney Fifes who so zealously enforce scooter exiting alley regulations could not be turned to using that kind of keen police work to enforcing covid-19 related tailgating restrictions?

    I think you give the Athens-Clarke County PD far too little credit! 😂

    Like

    • tbia

      Speaking of which, our old friend Jimmy Williamson lost last night.

      Liked by 2 people

    • stoopnagle

      Based on my observations, no one is policing social distancing guidelines.

      Example: went to pick up pizza at the local place. Turns out a local candidate for sheriff was having his election day party there. It was packed like a bar on gameday. Most employees were wearing masks – the hostess had hers under her chin and the owner wasn’t wearing one at all – and there was a sign outlining the symptoms of COVID-19 and asking people with them to not come in.

      They guy was essentially elected sheriff last night.

      Like

  8. Muttley

    In 2004 at Arkansas I sat next to an older guy from Athens who wanted my opinion on a “disturbing” Vent rumor he’d seen that Pollack and Greene were “democrats”. The question kind of took me aback…then I told him he was probably rooting for a lot of “democrats” on that field. This took him aback…then he finally digested it, and said “Yeah, but I don’t care about them. I care about Pollack and Greene. You know what I mean.” Yeah, I knew.

    As of 1966 the Beatles were not allowed to comment on Vietnam. They were “just entertainers”. As of 1970, Elvis still gave that reply. The Beatles, ultimately, were against the war. I’m guessing Elvis supported it. Either way, I’m o.k. with them. They should speak out if they choose to, and I’m not entitled to their silence.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Muttley

    I guess it comes down to this: if someone believes differently than I do, does that make them my enemy?

    Like

    • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

      For most people today, on either side, it seems that answer is yes.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Happy Dawg

        I’d say that depends. My brother is pretty far left, and he refuses to purchase Georgia Pacific brand paper products because the company is owned by the Koch brothers. I consider myself a moderate and I buy the best product (or value) generally without regard to the politics of the company owners. But I realize I am probably in the minority.

        Like

        • Muttley

          To Happy Dawg: that’s actually a personality trait, neither right nor left, I think. I make “principled” decisions (like Coke over Pepsi because I’m from Atlanta) about everything. Everyone else in my family makes practical decisions.

          “Wal-Mart sucks”-; destroys local business, mistreats employees, tore down the last Drive-In (or whatever), but on the other hand, they’re closer and cheaper.

          Like

      • Muttley

        Sure seems to be, and I’m guilty of it myself way too much, for sure. You say something here I don’t like; I probably just shrug. You say something here that I don’t like in a smug, take-it-to-the-hoop style, and I find myself noting your handle and remembering it. But I don’t want to be like that.

        All Dawgs go to Heaven, right?

        Like

        • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

          Personally, I don’t care and haven’t in awhile. I still watch the NFL. I still watch ESPN. I think Alec Baldwin is hilarious and I think Cat Scratch Fever is a great rock song.

          Fly whatever freak flag you want to fly. I do have a line, but few entertainers seem to have found it as of yet.

          Liked by 1 person

    • Tribalism is king and nuance is dead

      Liked by 1 person

    • I said this before, and Mac has, too — I remember growing up in a time when people could differ politically and it not cause an issue in their friendship or general social interaction. Like it or not, in that regard, the times have grown coarser.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Harold Miller

        I’m not sure if the times have grown coarser as much as the mode of communication has grown faster and thus the cycle has spun out of control.

        Like

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          The Overton window keeps moving. In 1975, the notion that drag queen story hour for toddlers is an appropriate thing would have been laughable. Today, you’re a Nazi if you question it.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Texas Dawg

        No doubt. You have the media constantly telling you that if you do not agree with the marching order of the day you are, racist, homophobic, sexist, elitist, or what ever “ist” of the day is in fashion. One is no longer able to agree to disagree. It is either the prescribed view that you have to embrace or they will destroy you. Drew Brees is the perfect example. ” I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America”. Sounds pretty patriotic and otherwise benign. For this he was pilloried. Never mind all the money and time he gave to help Katrina victims. No, he did not agree 100% with the mob so he is now an evil person.

        Liked by 1 person

    • AthensHomerDawg

      Well depending on what you say and how you say it.
      if your politics offend them then yes you might become their enemy. And you might be canceled or outed or doxxed.

      The young lady from Sweden who was all about climate change and how dared people was fine..

      the German girl with the opposite view who had a YouTube post that described her thoughts was told by the German powers that and fee to take down the YouTube video down face jail.

      Seems a bit much .

      Liked by 4 people

    • Harold Miller

      Only if they’re a gator. #ftmf

      Like

  10. stsbms

    If a player on a team I pull for misses a pass or strikes out on purpose to prove an ideological point, then it’s a bridge too far. Other than this, I rather agnostic on what a player does before or after a game.

    Like

  11. Greg

    Quit watching the NFL when the kneeling started. Will do the same if it moves to other sports.

    I can live without it….

    Liked by 3 people

    • Derek

      Better yet, they can live without you.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        Except that’s not true, Derek. Going hard politically, generally in one direction – a direction you happen to agree with – has cost many a sports league or sports-affiliated business like ESPN. Like it or not Derek, people who watch sports tend to be more middle of the road to slightly conservative, and definitely not as Far Left as the Overton Window has moved for the media and social media companies. Social Media gives you a false sense of what is real. Most people want to use sports as an escape from the everyday garbage of their lives, and will stop watching if they can’t get it there. The NFL just rebounded last season after two years of down ratings. If you think the Greg’s of the world don’t matter, you haven’t been paying attention at all.

        Liked by 1 person

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            Senator, one, that’s not the same thing and you know it (strawman) and two, Nike has lost money on stuff like this.

            https://www.thewrap.com/colin-kaepernick-nike-stock-loses-4-billion-market-cap/amp/

            That is a short term loss. The potential for long term losses in the form of poor growth in what was a great economy was also evident.

            https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/nike-reports-third-quarter-fiscal-2019-earnings.html

            However, Nike isn’t an entity like the NFL or ESPN so the short term losses are not nearly as bad as they would be for the NFL or ESPN, but again, a CEO won’t last long if they keep missing quarterly earnings projections. The next CEO may decide not to lean in one particular political agenda in the same way.

            Like

            • From 9.5.19: the company claimed $163 million in earned media, a $6 billion brand value increase, and a 31% boost in sales.

              I’m not sure what “Nike isn’t an entity like the NFL or ESPN” means, but if you’re right, the NFL is about to take a major hit in earnings with its change of heart, right?

              Like

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                When the controversy began a few years ago, they did suffer ratings declines for the first time in ever. And it went one for more than one year. Social media doesn’t reflect real life. We keep getting proof of that from the disparate reactions to Colin Kaepernick on social media and in real life to even the dang 2016 election, and yet people still think twitter is some kind of harbinger of things to come. We’ll see what happens this season in the NFL, and the next, and the next. Would it surprise me if there is no change in ratings? No, because covid-19 has created such a bitterly garbage life for most of us the last few months that the NFL would be a welcome respite. Would it surprise me if there is a change? Also no. After 2016 nothing surprises me anymore. The point is, the displays by players caused people to stop watching in such numbers that IT DID MATTER. How can anyone deny that actually happened? It did happen. Saying anything else is a weird attempt at gaslighting.

                Liked by 2 people

          • I do everything I can to not purchase nike. That’s all I as an individual can do.

            Like

        • Derek

          Hell, you can’t even watch nascar now!

          https://www.pennlive.com/sports/2020/06/nascars-bubba-wallace-to-drive-black-lives-matter-car-at-martinsville.html

          Ultimately, everything is about money. The bean counters know that the money isn’t on the side of shutting down their product’s voices, period.

          The people who won’t watch because players have the temerity to express themselves, which isn’t exactly a new phenomenon btw, are not moving the needle. I’m not suggesting they don’t exist. Im suggesting that its been determined that they don’t matter.

          No number of tvs tuned to CMT (does that exist anymore??) instead of the game is not ever going to get the leagues to kneel on their players necks until they’re silenced, metaphorically speaking.

          So go ahead and tune out. The games will continue without you just fine.

          Like

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            I don’t know what’s more objectionable, your lack of understanding how television ratings work and affect advertising money for entities such as ESPN, forcing them to wholesale shift their lean into one-sided politics the last couple of years back to more straightforward reporting, or the constant, never-ending, and almost always wrong assumptions you make about everyone you THINK disagrees with you politically.

            You’re like the poster boy for the modern Leftist. You have absolutely no chill about you.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Muttley

              In the spirit of our exchange above, I’m gonna call you on that one. Corch: that’s your picture of the modern left? Who’s the poster boy for the modern right?

              Like

              • Muttley

                ^And I don’t mean that snarkily or disrespectfully- quite the opposite.

                Like

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                This is an interesting question, because it does get to the heart of what I feel is most wrong with media and social media representation and how it’s projected as opposed to how reality actually is.

                I believe after about 40 years of Far Leftists being in control of academia, the Overton Window has shifted irrevocably to the Left. Universities spit out adults in certain areas of expertise (journalism, tech, education) with not just left wing, liberal views, as they used to, but in the last 10-15 years, with Far Leftist, authoritarian views. This is why we’ve seen the rise in the politicization of everything, as that’s one of the key tenants to a Far Leftist world view (“Everything is politics”). The media long had a liberal bent, now it has a Leftist bent. Tech is a hive mind of authoritarian Leftist thought. See how twitter is governed. Education is a damned mess, and would benefit from less social theory and just teaching the effing subjects. I think this authoritarian Leftism is a danger to our way of life because it flies in the face of that idea of “America.” Most of the worst racists and misogynists I’ve seen are Leftists in reaction to black people and women (or both) who hold conservative viewpoints, and it shocks me how some Democrat politicians honestly believe they “own” the black vote.

                The Democratic Party doesn’t look familiar to me at all. What once was a Big Tent that was welcoming and tolerant of a variety of views is now far more intolerant than the GOP ever was. You have to pass a purity test now to be a Democrat, and it breaks my heart. I’m a liberal guy, in that Kennedy, Bill Clintonian kinda way. I dislike W and O and Trump. I think Joe Lieberman and John McCain would’ve made fantastic presidents. I see the biggest difference now compared to 20 years ago as collectivism. Identity Politics are evil, because they treat people as groups instead of individuals, and they judge people not on our choices but by our immutable characteristics. Intersectionalism and Identity Politics have become secular religious dogma for this new Left. It’s why they act with such ferocity against those who disagree. When I grew up, I never looked at someone I disagreed with politically as evil, but that’s how the vast majority of the new Left believes. That’s how they can call someone like Mitt Romney a misogynist fascist in 2012 without an ounce of irony. That’s why they believe that “Words are violence.” That allows them to use actual violence against those they disagree, because if words are violence, the words you don’t like must be met with violence. It’s what’s allowed the rise of Antifa, which I find extremely worrisome, more so because of the media’s continued lies and covering for these terrorists to downplay just how serious an issue they have become.

                As for me, I’m somewhat fiscally conservative in that I don’t want high taxes and I don’t want a ton of regulation, but I want some regulation to make sure we don’t pollute too much and I want some taxes to keep certain social safety nets alive because I believe they’re necessary. I’m a former active duty Marine, but I don’t want a huge defense department. I think we could cut the defense budget in half and be okay, and return that money to the American taxpayer. I don’t like the UN and wouldn’t mind if we pulled-out. I’m a big supporter of NATO. I think Iraq was a mistake, compounded by another mistake to leave when The Surge was working, and that power vacuum led to ISIS. I’m a socially liberal guy in that I support equal rights for all under the law. I believe the government should stay out of the bedroom; that gay marriage should be legal. I believe in trans rights and that if someone who believes they are a woman even if they were born a man should have the right to live as a woman. I do not believe anyone should be made to declare that they are a woman, flying in the face of scientific, biological reality, but if she wants to be called “she,” why shouldn’t I respect that? However, I do not believe trans girls and women should compete with biological girls and women in sports, because I’m not an idiot who puts ideology ahead of science and basic understanding of safety.

                I think I’m a typical American. However, 20 years ago, voting for Zell Miller and my social leanings made me solidly a liberal. I would’ve voted for Clinton if I could have, and voted for Gore. I look at today’s Democratic Party, and I see none of the common sense that used to exist there. I’m still a liberal, but with the extremism by that side of the spectrum, with the Overton Window being pushed further Left than it’s ever been in our country, does being a liberal make me right wing? Derek certainly thinks so, and I know he’s not alone.

                Liked by 2 people

                • Derek

                  “I think I’m a typical American.“

                  Who doesn’t?

                  Your frame of references are way out of whack. The problem with the fear of “leftists” is that they have no power to speak of. They may annoy you. You may not agree with them. But they hold no offices of import. The rw media builds up AOC to be a demon like figure for the cowardly and ignorant. Meanwhile, the center right has been gutted. The democrats have nominated candidates towards the middle of the party each time. The gop nominated the most extreme candidate ever.

                  The one thing that democrats in power did since you apparently left was retread a mitt romney heritage foundation health care program to try to get more americans health coverage. Thats about it.

                  Don’t operate on what some prof at some school said that you didn’t like, look at what is actually happening.

                  The question presented to us every four years isnt which side is perfect from top to bottom. It really is a question if the lesser of two evils.

                  A question you should ask yourself is: if Biden got everything he wanted within the political realities that exist, what would the country look like.

                  Then do trump.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  That you think a group that controls media, tech, and education has no power, well, it pretty much invalidates everything else you say.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • Derek

                  Name the “group.”

                  Remove the tin foil hat.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Recognizing that leftists control academia, media, and government is a conspiracy theory. The word you’re searching for here is, “Nazis.”

                  Like

                • oldpunk

                  Facebook is sponsoring the Republican National Convention. Some far leftists they are.

                  Like

                • Argondawg

                  You realize that before Trump the Republicans nominated McCain and Romney? Not exactly right wing fire brands. I didnt vote for either jus sayin…… That being said both parties are moving to the wings and abandoning the center. It is hard to find moderates for either party. It is also hard to find anyone at the national level who won’t get in line when the party tells them to. It is always odd to me how one side sees the other as tribal but never seem to see it in the people they claim are moderate because those moderates speak for them. It is just willful blindness.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  I do. And they lost which may explain why they chose a nut to animate the other nuts. BTW: Ms. Lindsay called trump a nut, a kook, and unfit.

                  Is Biden a fringe candidate? Other than 1972, I don’t think the dems have nominated a left wing candidate in the post-war era.

                  FDR and Truman are the only self-described liberals to ever win the office.

                  Not even Obama would wear the label:

                  ““I am a New Democrat,” Obama told the New Democrat Coalition, according to two sources at the White House session.

                  The group is comprised of centrist Democratic members of the House, who support free trade and a muscular foreign policy but are more moderate than the conservative Blue Dog Coalition.

                  Obama made his comment in discussing his budget priorities and broader goals, also calling himself a “pro-growth Democrat” during the course of conversation.”

                  Now do self-described “conservatives.”

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  A political candidate described himself as centrist? Must be gospel. Unless he’s a Republican.

                  I’m just curious how many Republican candidates refer to themselves as neocons? If none, does mean neocons don’t exist?

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Muttley

                  My point (not clearly made) was simply this: maybe going down the “you’re a typical —-winger” /”poster boy” road in these disagreements ain’t productive- or relevant or necessarily accurate. Both sides do it. I do it. It’s what we were talking about elsewhere. But the ideas matter more than the personality questions.

                  Am I voting this Fall for the guy, for the policies, or simply against the other guy’s “poster boy” supporters?

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  I wouldn’t assume anything about you Muttley. I don’t assume anything about Derek, but I do judge him based on his actions here. That’s just paying attention to context.

                  Like

                • This was awesome. Mostly because your showing you can believe to things at once. The death of that nuance is what is killing america.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Not just America, but comedy as we know it, too.

                  Imagine how quickly Carlin and Pryor would be “cancelled” by today’s culture of coddled, authoritarian children online.

                  Social media makes people into garbage people and makes garbage people into literally insane people. It makes all of us bad, even those of us who could be good.

                  Like

                • The thing is too, there were few things you said there that I don’t completely agree with. But I don’t feel the need to call you names, shoot you down, get you banned, limit your speech, and try to create a rage mob against you. I always see people in the left on so many social media sites, They will band together and shout you down. That’s why Donald Trump won even though the polls did not favor him. People have been shouted down so they just keep to themselves and do an in your face vote. I think it may happen again. This is a wild election year.

                  But you’ve got to have grace and you’ve got a have nuance to function as a civilized society. You’ve got to be able to say, as you did, that a person can call themselves whatever sex they want be who they want act as they want but simultaneously say that person should not compete athletically against that sex. You can have 2 thought

                  Just like no one in the media or social media is talking about the hard data raw data for crime race murders death shootings.

                  Like

            • Derek

              Sports talk is not the same as sports programming.

              I would absolutely agree that media personalities would be discouraged from left leaning politics.

              Im talking about the participants speech and the games themselves.

              Like

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                As long as their employers give them the go-ahead that it’s okay, employees should be able to do anything they want, political speech-wise, again, as long as its okay with their employer. The viewing public then also has the right not to support that speech. And they have. And likely will. It will be interesting to see what happens if the NFL allows for kneeling or whatever, and if the ratings decline again as they likely would, how will the NFL then handle political speech after allowing it? They are in business to make money, not to allow their players to hinder their efforts to make money.

                Like

                • Derek

                  So employers decide what we can and can’t say?

                  Wtf is that?

                  If a player tweets: “donald trump is a fascist”, you’re saying he needs pre-approval from the employer?

                  I sincerely doubt that. On the job speech is a different issue to be sure but its a balancing act even there.

                  How much money do the owners make if the players don’t play exactly? Have you done the math?

                  Id advise them to not act like plantation owners. Its bad for business.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  To borrow from the Senator… “Wut?”

                  An employer most definitely can tell you how you must act when you are on company time, and your “plantation owner” analogy is beyond ridiculous, moving past objectionable, and right into offensive with the total lack of historical perspective it takes to make sure an analogy.

                  These players are paid money. When they are paid that money, they agree to follow the rules their employer has for dress code, to interpersonal relations, and yes, to political statements made on company time. In CFB, they are given a scholarship, room, board, coaching, and other things in lieu of money, and that’s why the same rules apply.

                  This is the way it would be for any employee in any business anywhere. Why do we act like football players should have rights no employee anywhere should have? Because they’re football players? Because most of the ones who want to kneel are black? This is ridiculous. Derek, by all means, protest on your company’s time and see how much longer you have a job.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  I own the company, so I’m good. Thanks!

                  If you don’t think the “fire their asses” speech was about white men in power expressing dominance over their mainly black charges, well, let me be so very fucking offended. Beyond so even!

                  If the NFL banned the flag and the anthem and some white conservative player decided he would do it by himself with his own flag pregame and Obama said: fire his ass!!

                  Well respond….. and remember I may be as sensitive as you so don’t be offensive. It hurts.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  1) I wasn’t offended. I said it was offensive from a historical perspective. You may used to being able to do it elsewhere, and I’m sure other terrible analogies that lack context and perspective fly out of your mouth all the time (I’d be willing to bet real money you’ve called many people “fascist” who are not indeed fascists), but I can’t let something like that slide.

                  2) Again, when you take someone’s money you work by their rules. It’s a pretty basic idea. It has nothing to do with black, white, man, or woman. That you keep conflating it simply won’t make it so.

                  3) The rest of this post is just strawman nonsense. I never said anything about Obama or Trump or anything else. The point was about employers having rules employees must follow.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Unless you’re the CEO of Crossfit. Then, your tweets should get you fired.

                  But as long as your tweets are Newspeak without any thoughtcrime, you’re good.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  If you don’t have anything to add but pearl clutching, we’ve got it. If you have something substantive to say, say it.

                  Put yourself in the shoes of the white player who says: fuck it. I’m going to sing the star spangled banner pre-game I don’t care what Goodell says. Do you think he should be fired? Should a president support/encourage the firing?

                  I know that you say that you have rules. Apply them. Seek a set a rules that can be applied fairly and consistently. Its easy when your side wins. Its harder when your own rules make you eat shit.

                  I, for one, would stand with the guy with the flag. Would you?

                  Change it to Nazi flag. I say, fire his ass! Do you?

                  Why is there a difference? Doesn’t it really come down to what we each see as a political expression within a reasonable bounds of acceptability?

                  Isn’t that where the tension is? Colin thought his protest was within those parameters, or should be, while many others did not. No hard and fast rule you propose like “check in with master first” covers it does it?

                  BTW: Typing drivel is no better than pasting other people’s memes that you dug up on white supremacy websites. Who wants to be that guy?

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Again Derek, you can create the most ridiculous strawmen you want, and it looks like you’ll continue to try doing so, but it won’t change the fact that employers have the right to put rules into place that restrict their employee’s political speech, and that there’s absolutely nothing amiss about that fact and hasn’t been for 250 years.

                  We have the right to do whatever you want on your own time. We do not have the right to do so on company time. Black, white, man, woman… it doesn’t matter. Anything else is gaslighting.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Derek, don’t forget to include Google images in your list of all things Nazi. smh

                  FWIW, please post your “what I did this summer” paper when school starts back up. It should be riveting.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  And here I thought you were a patriot.

                  And not surprisingly, you’re wrong:

                  https://www.natlawreview.com/article/demonstrators-midst-handling-political-activity-workplace

                  The law is a bit more complicated than the rule you suggest, so your dodge is just that.

                  Like

                • Theres a reasonable chance they get rid of the national anthem. Solves 1 problem

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  The best way to do it is as they do it in CFB.

                  Just do it before the team enters the field.

                  Then the people in the stands can decide for themselves if they will stand or sit or whatever.

                  Like

                • The NFL used to do it that way, but changed it. Nothing like engineering a cock up.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  If there’s a sports administrator more apt to step on his dick, other than Greg McGarity of course, it has to be Goodell, right? Not even Gary Berman, in all the great shame he’s done as the worst commissioner in all of sports, continues to step on his dick like Roger has.

                  Like

                • I’m down. Honestly the pre game activities are way too long. You’re honoring some group or person playing a video somebody’s given a speech then there’s a band then there’s another video then there’s the national anthem then the team’s have to come out in the field in some dramatic way then there’s a coin toss…. Hey lets get some commercials before kickoff.

                  College football experience would be a million times better with shortened pre game and 75% less commercials.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  *Gary Bettman. Jeez, Matt.

                  Like

          • sniffer

            I’m not suggesting they don’t exist. Im suggesting that its been determined that they don’t matter.

            Hilary Clinton
            2016

            Like

          • awreed79

            “Hell, you can’t even watch nascar now!”

            Yeah, because no one could be offended by kneeling during the National Anthem while at the same time not giving a shit what someone paints on a car. Flag = Car for everyone!

            Like

        • Union Jack

          Has it? I mean has it really? MLB wasn’t hurt when they made a hard political decision to let players of African American descent into their leagues. Were the Washington Redskins any less popular when they didn’t let African Americans play for them? How about when they did? Same with Alabama or Georgia or Tennessee. Are the Olympics or the World Cup more or less popular because of boycotts, changing laws in host countries, tax breaks, athlete protests etc?

          Like

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            I didn’t think it would be possible to create a more ridiculous strawman than I’ve yet seen, but congrats Union Jack, you have. To conflate these things is… quite something.

            Like

            • Union Jack

              Conflate what Corch? I have studied sport. I have worked in sport. I forgotten more about sport than you have ever known. You think this is the only political movement that touches sport?

              You are intellectually dishonest and you are obtuse. Politics have been in sports since the beginning. You just don’t like these politics.

              Sports have grown into a $75+ billion industry in this country in large part because of politics and has overcome the political stances of owners, players, coaches, administrators, leagues and media Sport has not been harmed in any meaningful way by politics.

              Like

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                And yet, I’m not the one who conflated Jackie Robinson or Jesse Owens with the performative virtue signaling of today. 🤷🏻‍♂️

                Like

      • Greg

        doubt anyone would miss me, it I am the only one. But I guess that would be the question, hey? …you “keyboard warrior”

        Like

      • stoopnagle

        Anyway, anytime a person gets upset at peaceful protest to bring attention to racial inequities in our country, particularly focused on policing policy and action, I refer them to 27:27 of the above video: that Champ Bailey asking you to listen to your countrymen when they tell you something is wrong. It’s your choice to ignore it, but note where that puts you in the story of history.

        “Listen” That’s the least we owe Champ for all he gave.

        Liked by 2 people

    • I quit watching all pro sports in 2002. Super Bowl get togethers has basically been it.

      Like

  12. Ran A

    Since I already pay enough attention to politics and listened to those who barely know what they are talking about, Sports is part of my getaway from all of it. Especially do not want to hear sportscasters, host and special guest (in many cases, struggle or suck at their present job), suddenly become political talk show host. Caveat – Stephen A. Smith – the dude is smart/entertaining and honest. I always enjoy Mr. Smith and usually learn something.

    Kaepernick was never real to me. I always saw him as a malcontent, once he was benched. (Go back and do a little home work here and draw your own conclusion). And felt that his stance was as much about bringing attention to himself than anything else. As he got more and more attention, he embraced it, parlaying it into a massive deal with Nike.

    Let’s be clear, what Kaepernick was bringing attention to was spot on. Still is. I just never felt that he was authentic in his protest, until it put him front and center. He got the attention he wanted, after no longer getting the attention that a NFL starting QB receives. (You do not have to agree – that is how I felt then and still feel today).

    And being completely honest. If a player points up at the sky, does a cross or thanks Jesus – I’m good with that. And I’m sure that this offends some people. Didn’t say I was completely fair about my viewpoint.

    Sports is part of life – not life. And I get that some see this as an opportunity to help others (again their personal belief system). But yes, Sports helps us all get away from everyday life and the bumbling way that ESPN and other networks go about it, sometimes results in just turning off the TV and doing something else, unless it’s the Dawgs. I’ll put up with just about anything while the Dawgs are on – even stupid insurance commercials.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. tbia

    Athletes, honestly, the only issue I have is the absolute refusal to speak against China in any way.

    Now, I know this is not supposed to be football talk, but how are we looking numbers wise. Arent we 2 or 3 over?

    Like

    • Napoleon BonerFart

      That’s the part that gets me, too. If you want to be for the flag, or against it, fine. I don’t care. Lebron James speaking out on politics and social issues in the USA, and then defending the ChiComs against criticism is just too much hypocrisy for me.

      Like

  14. Geezus

    Honestly, as I get older, I find that I don’t watch much sports anymore; Georgia football is pretty much it. I really could care less about “political” statements at sporting events, I’m secure enough with myself and my beliefs that I don’t feel threatened by it. If the athletes, in-game, decided to do something (run out of bounds, take a knee instead of going for a first down, etc…), I would likely stop watching it mainly because that would compromise the integrity of the sport.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. ASEF

    Why don’t we vote on it?

    Here, everyone go stand in line over there for a few hours while I figure out how to set up a poll.

    Like

  16. With a couple of exceptions–Neil Young for “Southern Man” and Cat Stevens for Salman Rushdie Must Die–I had never worried about the political stances of entertainers or sports heroes. I doubt I agree with the politics of John Wayne or Clint Eastwood, but I enjoyed most of their movies. Then along came Colin Kaepernick. He has a right to kneel during the anthem if he wants, but there’s no way he’s been blacklisted from the NFL, after turning down a $7 million offer from the Broncos and moving his open tryout last year. He must be a pretty smart dude, to get money from Nike and to get his pic on a sign in New Yawk City, but IMO he’s no hero, and mentioning Kaepernick in the same conversation as George Floyd demeans George Floyd.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Kapnick has somehow become a hero and hes just not. He is the ultimate self promoter and capitalist. He should be everything the left hates.

      Like

    • AthensHomerDawg

      Have you looked at Mr. Flloyd’s rap sheet?

      Like

      • Dylan Dreyer's Booty

        The rap sheet thing gets mentioned by certain circles, but I wonder: was George convicted of any capital offenses? If I see someone who I know has done a little time, or is even on probation, am I allowed to kill them just because? I just don’t see why you would think that is a justification even if what you might have read on some tweet is accurate.

        Like

      • Derek

        Can you do a person by person rap sheet check and decide for us who needs to be choked to death, Mr. God?

        If a guard, on camera, pulled Jeffery Dahmer out of his cell and kneeled on his neck until he was dead, your response is________?

        Like

      • Tony Barnhart

        His rap sheet is only…maybe…relevant in a trial (that he never received) and then likely only if (litigators help me here) his lawyers introduced evidence of his good character. Do i have that right ?

        Like

      • AthensHomerDawg

        You’re Taking a lot of latitude with my question Mr. Booty. To Mr. chop dog above ” He’s no hero and mentioning Kaepernick’s in the same conversation is George Floyd demeans George Flloyd” Mr. florist been in prison five times the last time he was arrested for home invasion where he pressed the pistol against the stomach of pregnant woman living in the apartments. Ramsack the house looking for their their money and drugs. He and four others failed to find any drugs and left with her pocketbook and and. phone. He was later arrested and charged with armed robbery. Two years later he was sentenced to prison for five years. On the day he died he was high on fentanyl, meth, cannibis,alcohol. This was found by both medical examiners. This sales clerk that called in the 911 at the store where he tried to pass the phony 20 said ” was in here behaving erractic and seemed to be high.” When he was taken out of the car and place against the wall I’m bag with white powder and it fell out of his pocket. After that the arrest went horribly wrong, The protests went horribly wrong and and turned into riots where buildings were looted and burned.
        15 people died.
        One of them was David Dorn. Retired police chief killed by a man that was ironically convicted of armed robbery which carried seven years but was put on probation. He broke that probation twice But was given another chance. He was on on his fourth chance when he killed Captain Dorn. A successful black community leader. There will be no painted murals for Captain Dorn. No slow ride to the cemetery replete with television coverage. No mayor crying onto bended knee in front of his casket. The media won’t say much about this. Sweeping it Under the rug. “Nothing to see here Black Lives Matter only when they killed by a white man and serve some political purpose” . “Young black men kill each other all the time.”

        CDC’s “deaths leading causes for 2017”
        Homicide is the number two cause of death for black male children ages one through 14.
        Homicide rises to number one for black males from the ages of 15 to 34.
        Even among babies and toddlers 1-4 years old homicide is the number two cause of death.

        Black lives matter? They need to change that to “When Black Lives Matter”

        Liked by 1 person

  17. dawgxian

    https://twitter.com/chrisburnette68/status/1270446186231668736?s=21 senator, isn’t this a crime? Shouldn’t we be getting the feds involved or the police?

    Like

    • It’s certainly creepy as shit.

      Like

      • dawgxian

        You can send a racially tinged message telling someone not to vote at the polling place and it’s not a crime?

        Like

        • Using the n-word isn’t a crime. Do you think what was sent constitutes a physical threat?

          Like

          • dawgxian

            He was at a polling place and they told him to leave. That’s what I think is the crime (but I’m not a lawyer so I’m asking you). Personally, based upon the way the text is worded and the fact that it’s a primary and not a general election, i think it’s a hoax. Either that, or some part of the Democratic Party does not want black men voting for some baffling reason. If someone can offer a more plausible explanation, I’d be interested to read it.

            Like

            • It may be a primary, but both parties have theirs at the same polling place, so I don’t understand why you assume it reflects upon a Democrat.

              Like

              • dawgxian

                I don’t assume that. I assume it’s a hoax. If it’s not a hoax, it makes no sense for the GOP to assume he’s one of the small number of black men voting in their primary and try to stop him. It really doesn’t make sense for the Dems either unless black voters and white liberals are diverging. Thus, it’s most likely a hoax and he’s pretending to be a victim or hero

                Like

                • Argondawg

                  I don’t know how a stranger gets his numnber and knows where he is. This needs to be looked into because it seems like someone is messin with him or it is a brilliant/ignorant racist who hacks phones. I am confused by this. I want to take it seriously but I am having a hard time figuring out the logisitcs of the hack.

                  Like

  18. AthensHomerDawg

    Has anyone bothered to read the BLM platform?

    https://m4bl.org/policy-platforms/

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Navin Johnson

    Athletes and entertainers are in the same boat. They are real human beings with thoughts, beliefs, emotions, etc. So they are entitled to their beliefs and to express them in the same way as your dumbass neighbor or loudmouth insurance agent.

    It’s a free market. If Jason Isbell’s or Ted Nugent’s politics make you like their music less, then don’t buy tickets or download their albums. If LeBron’s or Brees’ politics distract you from the game, don’t buy tickets or watch their games. The athlete or entertainer makes a decision whether expressing beliefs outside his trade is more important to him than the potential economic risk of doing so (and or the high-profile ones, you know they have plenty of advisers telling them the should or shouldn’t). But don’t tell them to shut up.

    Like

  20. Sashko1943

    When people complain about sports and politics, they are complaining about the hyper partisanship that has infected every slice of American life. Even with my company (1k employees, $500m rev), I’m expected to make statements on current affairs and weigh in on political issues or risk a rebuke for silence. The fallout from George Floyd is an excellent example – you’re either an antiracist or a racist. So I’m either speaking out or I’m running a midmarket American company that’s a front for the KKK. Seriously people. This is stupid.

    So at times I resist and the feedback I hear is that we don’t support diversity and inclusion. Actually, I just want the work place to be one space in life free of hyper partisanship. I think the talking heads you reference above are all whiny and fairly duplicitous, but I can’t fault them for wanting an escape from the ugly, hyper partisan world that our two party system has created. I’m sick of the gender and identity politics of the left and the right. I’m sick of this president’s petulant narcissism. I’m sick at the lack of adults and real leaders in DC and I’m sick to my stomach thinking of the lessons Gen Z is learning while watching this abject mockery of our republic. The fuse is lit and us Gen Xers will get to watch the republic get blown up within our lifetime. Socialism is here to stay and the debate is already lost. Thank you President Trump.

    Liked by 3 people

  21. I think if athletics provide you a platform, and if you have beliefs that you believe can make the world a better place, most people’s conscience compels them to use their platform for good (or “good” as they see it). That’s not just restricted to politics either. A lot of people who might object to Kap’s kneeling during the national anthem, I presume, have no problem with Tim Tebow’s open shows of faith or printing Bible verses on his eye-black. I still think the vast majority of statements athletes make – even during this highly polarized time – are related to their faith, and of those, the vast majority of them are Christian. As someone who shares that identity, it seems that it would be intellectually inconsistent of me to approve of those kinds of statements, but begrudge anyone else theirs. Which leads right back to your suggestion that maybe those who object to the politicization of sports really only object to messages that do not match their own politics.

    Liked by 2 people

  22. 3rdandGrantham

    Not sure about the rest of you, and maybe me/my friends/colleagues are in some tiny bubble, but none of us can stand the bickering on both sides, along with the extreme viewpoints that are being spewed. And my friends are very diverse overall across myriad ethnicities, religions, etc. For example, a good work friend of mine is of Iranian decent and considers himself to be fairly liberal. He even attended the protest in D.C. last weekend. However, he thinks calls from various leaders on the left to defund police departments (for ex) is the most asinine idea possible, and hence he’s questioning his support of such democratic leaders.

    On the flip side, my moderate/conservative friends universally can’t stand Trump and never have. They also feel their GOP party leaders have completely let them down, thus they either plan on sitting out the election this fall or voting Libertarian. It’s really bizarre and I’ve never seen both sides have such disdain for their respective sides.

    With that in mind, I would love to see a 3rd party gain footing and break the stranglehold the GOP/Dems have currently. My gut says that will happen sooner than later, but I won’t be holding my breath in the meantime.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I have been likewise blaming the two-party system for a lot of the polarization in our country for a while now. It has turned every issue into a false binary. I don’t see the situation resolving before either the rise of a viable third-party option or an external threat (like, maybe, China invading).

      Like

    • Derek

      You’ll need one of the two parties to die.

      Because we don’t have a parliamentary system, there’s no room for a budding third party to gain a foothold in some outpost and build from there.

      You can criticize the founders for it, but if there was one thing they made sure of it was nothing too significant can happen without consensus over time.

      You can also criticize the parties all you want but their goal is power and power is achieved by getting the most votes.

      When its a 50/50 country you cant say either isn’t doing the job. The parties are extremely competitive nationally and both houses of congress are within each party’s reach.

      The enemy is in the mirror.

      We dont seek truth.

      We dont seek honesty.

      We dont analyze policy deeply.

      We don’t engage in sincere debate.

      We come to the debate with the answers and the only acceptable answers are the ones we showed up with.

      What we really want is to be entertained and for our political enemies to suffer.

      We are not victims of the parties, we are the market they find themselves with.

      As soon as we buy something else, they will change what they have on offer.

      Like

      • I absolutely agree the parties are a reflection of us. And everything you say from ‘the enemy in the mirror” down is, unfortunately, spot on. The founders didn’t fear a two-party system, or at least there were things they feared more. One of the things they did fear was an uninformed or un-engaged electorate. Exactly what you describe, in other words.

        I’d still like to see a viable third option, if only to act as a place for moderate approaches to percolate and as a pressure release valve.

        Like

        • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

          The lack of a viable third option, which has more to do with the Election Commission and the power the two parties yield in stifling who can participate on the national stage than a lack of a British-style parliamentary system of government, is what drives votes to outliers like Trump. I know people like to conflate all Trump voters as crazy white racists and whatnot, but he got the largest percentage of the black vote in years for a Republican and he won the election because people who voted for Obama twice in the Midwest refused to vote for Hillary. Not exactly a bunch of rabid racists.

          Like

          • Derek

            8% is meaningful you? How so?

            Like

            • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

              It was 12%, and AGAIN, compared to what other national GOP office holders have gotten, it is a significant bump.

              It looks as though it will be even higher this time around. Getting nervous yet, Derek? I swear, it’d be worth it to have Trump win just so people like you can continue the tamper tantrum you’ve thrown the last three years.

              Like

              • Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Lol. Please tell me you do know 12% is more than 6%. That you know it’s double that number. If you know that, I think we’re gonna be okay. 😂

                  Like

                • Where are you getting 12% from? Even Trump’s press secretary says 8%.

                  And yes, that was more than the percentage Romney received.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Is that so? I had googled it real quick to see what it was and was looking at the Roper entry from Cornell. I probably read it wrong then. Thanks for the correction!

                  Like

              • Derek

                Your american dream is about my misery.

                Why am i not at all shocked?

                The leftists have poisoned everything political!!

                The president is with you on your “fuck America, hooray for me!” plan:

                “Few people know where they’ll be in two years from now, but I do, in the Great State of Alaska (which I love) campaigning against Senator Lisa Murkowski,” Trump tweeted.

                “Get any candidate ready, good or bad, I don’t care, I’m endorsing. If you have a pulse, I’m with you!” he added.

                Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Yep, you have me pegged Derek, the same as you always do. It’s amazing, I mean TRULY amazing, that with all the assuming you do about me you’ve never managed to even be a little bit correct. Now of course, some of that can be blamed on me for my use of sarcasm, but really man, you’re batting .000 here. That’s even more impressive than hitting .400.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  “Misery is having your preferred candidate lose an election. Why, if effective tax rates are 3% lower than I would like them to be, I’m pitching a fit and calling everybody a Nazi Russian traitor.”

                  As a middle schooler, that is your privilege. Adults have to get over it and go to work. When you’re older and your preferred party has lost more elections, and won some elections, and nothing much has changed as a result, you might have a more mature perspective on politics. One can only hope.

                  Like

      • The older I get the more I envy the parliamentary system….

        Like

        • Derek

          The downside is that really bad shit happens in a hurry. It’s difficult to experiment in our system. You either have broad consensus or it doesn’t happen. It can no doubt be frustrating and slow but i think predictability has buttressed our financial success as a country. And that predictability largely comes from the slow grind of progress.

          What the current environment hinders is reaching across party lines because each side has, in order to win, characterized the other as evil.

          So it may be slower than usual, but if you think the people in power shouldn’t be, well you should be comforted by how little your opponents can accomplish.

          Like

  23. Normaltown Mike

    Defund the NCAA

    There. I said it.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. BuffaloSpringfield

    For What Its Worth:
    I didn’t realize till I read or heard the other day that the NFL playing of the National Anthem only became a TV thing with regularity in 2007. Before then I assume player introductions/schools and some player interviews and Phillis George, John Madden, Pat Summerall and Frank Gifford they just kicked off.
    For me ESPN lost me when they for what ever reason became so fractured as to Sports Center broadcasts where there would be a 30 minutes MLB, 10 minute clip of PGA, 10 minute NASCAR update and 30 minute review of college football with a few bloopers of the week. I might add that when you get to big to fail that’s what you do. I am not your normal sports fan so I don’t care much for South Korean baseball, WWE, Real Madrids score vs. Liverpool, anything NBA or dogs catching frisbees.
    I do catch a little of the SEC network but you can only so much Paullll. Moderation of anything of college football news such as the trials and tribulations of Iowa football and other than the Dawgs on game day I have chose not to have the TV on.
    I mentioned this last week in a tweet and I do so again today. While all the riots were blazing on TV on June 6 I looked hard, extremely hard to find mention of over 3,500 young US and Allied men 17- 25 years old who lost their lives 76 years ago.
    I found TWO…. two small articles.
    There was diversity and racism before 1944 and after but there were 13 young black men that year choose to attend Tuskegee Institute in Alabama. They became the Red Tails and proved they were intelligent and brave enough to fly and fight against the enemy along with their white brothers.Then there was Dorie Miller ( not allowed to carry a weapon ) who was a ships cook on December 7 and after seeing his white shipmates blown off their machine gun post took full charge and maned it till his hand were severely burned.
    I myself am ashamed of the way our country carries herself. Racism still exits but not only between the people of color and caucasians but of the very parties that deem themselves worthy to lead. The main colors have changed from Red, White and Blue to that of Green and Greed.

    “There is something happening here, what it is ain’t exactly clear. There’s a man with a gun over there, telling me I got to be ware.”
    “I think it’s time to stop, think, children, what’s that sound, everybody going down.”
    “ There’s battle lines being drawn, nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong.
    Young people speaking their minds, getting so much resistance from behind. What a field for the heat, there’s a thousand people in the streets. Singing songs and carrying signs. Most say Hoo Ray for our side.”
    1967 The more things change the more the stay the same.

    Like

    • Union Jack

      Buffalo Springfield – did you watch the two-part Laurel Canyon documentary on Epix? It was really well worth it.

      While many people assume “For What It’s Worth” is about Vietnam (including me until this documentary), it is about young people protesting and then rioting about a curfew on the Sunset Strip.

      A couple of other things that I learned:

      Mama Cass doesn’t get the credit she deserves for her impact on popular music of the time. She was the connective tissue between the artists in Laurel Canyon. Her house was always open, she invited a young British guitarist who was in the US & LA for the first time. There is video of Clapton intently watching Joni Mitchell play acoustic in a style he had never seen before. Crosby is there so is Stills amongst others.

      Stills auditioned for the Monkees but didn’t land it because of his teeth. He told and recommended his friend Pete – Peter Tork.

      Artists liked hanging out at Tork’s house in Laurel Canyon because it had an amazing custom music room/studio. It was built by this carpenter/actor named Harrison Ford.

      Liked by 1 person

  25. ASEF

    The Playpen exists because people could not resist mixing culture war stuff into comment sections. And people could not resist responding to it. Threads were hijacked daily.

    The nice thing about sports and sports conversations is that it offers a rare space for people to find some common ground outside their political bubbles. Get to know someone, respect their opinion, and then discover that people with opposing views are not all knuckle-dragging totalitarians.

    And that’s ultimately what Shapiro and Travis and the like are trying to shut down. They need people huddling in their bubble bunkers and relying on Shapiro et al to tell them what’s important and what it all means.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. pcpup

    Who is Ben Shapiro and why should I care what he says?

    Like

  27. TripleB

    I think people do get tired of protests and political statements in forums they hope will bring entertainment, namely sports and tv/movies. For me part of the problem is that i cannot relate to the celebrities and athletes preaching to the rest of us. I don’t feel like they live the same lives that i and most others live. I feel like I’m pretty middle of the road and I don’t think that’s good enough for most other people any more, so I just get tired of hearing about it when I try to watch something besides the news.

    I had hoped the Floyd killing would bring some unity since EVERYONE for once thought it was clearly wrong. There was no other way to look at it. Instead, the extremes have taken over the issue and the reaction to the extremes has given the typical players the avenue to gin up more left/right division. I hate to see sports get consumed with the division when and if it comes back..

    I’ve been listening to a lot of music and doing a lot of work outside lately. Senator, I drink on the weekends!

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Liked by 1 person

    • Napoleon BonerFart

      Like

      • Wow, you’re embarrassing yourself with this one. If I (or anyones else) has to tell you why, I got nothing for you.

        Like

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          I’m with you. Segregation is good, as long as it’s not bad segregation. We want the good kind of segregation.

          Like

          • Ok let me start over again, sans, snark. I’m not sure where this meme came from, but I have not seen or heard any black person stating their platform as needing a safe space. However, let’s say for a moment, that is what they are asking. Read the article below (titled walking while black) and ask yourself if he is asking to be segregated or just wanting to be safe. Because as far as I can tell, and based on the Breonna Taylor incident, Black folks are not even safe in their own homes from the Police, much less on the streets. So if Black people are asking for a safe space, maybe what they are really asking for is to not get harassed, shot, beaten, followed, errantly reported to police for birdwatching, called any number of racial epithets, passed over for jobs based on skin color, or really anything any white person takes for granted on a daily basis.

            Walking While Black.
            https://lithub.com/walking-while-black/?fbclid=IwAR00nbDnPcoE7BJOUZgQL8nxFckVR0vsDWdC9hUXtERwmxmhuRw7HVSDwTI

            If your answer is that they are asking to be segregated, I’d love to see articles and/or videos you have come across asking for that. No snark, I seriously would like to see it.

            Like

            • Napoleon BonerFart

              “Black students demand segregated spaces from white students”
              https://www.thecollegefix.com/black-students-demand-segregated-spaces-white-students/

              For each Breonna Taylor incident, there is a comparable incident involving a white victim. Police are obviously reluctant to provide detailed and accurate statistics involving officer-based homicide. But there is some scant evidence that black officers are as likely, or even more so, than white police to kill black suspects. I would argue that the militarization of police is more of a problem than racism.

              Like

              • Thanks for the link. It is from 2016, and most other articles I found were from 2016 and 2017 (one from 2019). This feels like something that was a bit of a hot topic a few years ago and not the drum that is being beaten now. As far as Breonna Taylor goes, I know that all races can experience that, however, my statement was in the context of home not being safe and everywhere else that a black person goes.

                Either way I agree with you that there is ALSO an issue with how the police forces are run, deployed, and held (or not held) responsible for their actions. (maybe I put some words in your mouth on that one)

                Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Oh no. Lack of accountability is a problem. But who wouldn’t enjoy a job where you investigate yourselves for any alleged misconduct?

                  Like

  29. Union Jack

    Shapiro and Travis (and all of those “stick to sports”/”Politics have no place in sports crowd”) trade in being obtuse. It scores a cheap point for “their” position but that’s their trade. I am not shocked by it – they have to find a way to stay relevant in the 24 hr news cycle. It’s those in the general public that believe this hollow cry, who cheer it, and who follow it that are children and/or intellectually dishonest.

    Senator you are being generous saying the politics in sports has been around since the modern era. There is not a single sport or sporting organization that hasn’t waded into political waters. Politics have been a part of sports since we started playing games to entertain ourselves.

    The Ancient Olympics were intertwined with politics. Same with the events in the Coliseum in Rome. The Modern Olympic games were revived with amateurs so “gentlemen” could compete for the “love of sport” so the elite could participate without having to mix with those of different races or socioeconomic classes. They were all males FWIW. The Olympic Movement started there and have had politics intertwined with their games in every edition. Boycotts, bribery, corruption, lobbying to change the laws of host nations, tax breaks, protests are part of the DNA.

    The world’s most popular sporting event – The World Cup – has the same type of checkered past. FIFA probably is the most corrupt sports organization on the face of the earth. The vast majority of the soccer public understand it and still attend the games, still watch the games. It doesn’t keep the broadcasting entities from paying billions to air them. It doesn’t keep sponsors away.

    Our beloved little football program has a checkpoint in its history that is political. It is part of the lore. Held up as a moment of reverence to show just how much Bulldog football means.

    https://digilab.libs.uga.edu/scl/exhibits/show/covered_with_glory/von_gammon

    Every sports organization in the US trades in politics and they always have. Amateurism, professionalism, collective bargaining, anti-trust exemptions, segregation, integration, black coaches, black executives, black qb’s, foreign players in sports, mascots, protests, strikes, lockouts, tax breaks, arena deals, gambling, sunshine laws, paid patriotism, sponsorship, #metoo, athlete abuse, player safety, recreational and performance enhancing drugs, gender tests, gender equality, sexuality, youth participation, youth professionalism or pseudo-professionalism, AAU, NCAA, agents, COVID-19 …. this could go on and on. All of these topics are in sports and have touchpoints directly or indirectly with politics.

    Paul Robeson, Eric Liddell, Jesse Owens, Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson, Muhammed Ali, Billie Jean King, Arthur Ashe, Martina Navratilova, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jim Brown, Bill Russell, John Carlos, Tommie Smith, Babe Didrikson Zaharias, Pat Tillman, LeBron James, the 1980 US Hockey Team, Megan Rapinoe, Bill Bradley, Steve Largent, Bryon White, Jim Bunning, Jack Kemp, Tom McMillen, JC Watts, Heath Shuler, Alan Page. Athletes who spoke out politically before during and after their athletic careers.

    Collectively, politics hasn’t kept us from participating. Politics haven’t kept us from attending or watching or buying merchandise or listening to sports talk or posting on sports blogs.

    If politics in sports were actually turning us off from sports then It wouldn’t be the focus/subject of thousands (millions?) of sports media entities. We wouldn’t be talking about how important sports is to daily modern life.

    So quit acting like a 7 year old about sports. Don’t act like sports doesn’t have politics in it. Sports without politics isn’t happening any time in this century – deal with it.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Like

  31. mddawg

    Piggybacking on what a few others have said here, I think consistency is key. One of the things I find most infuriating about politics is the “good for me, not for thee” mentality that seems to permeate everything. That “when my side does it, it’s okay” mindset is just so ridiculous.

    I’m glad that Laura Ingraham got called out on her BS. She doesn’t have a problem with athletes speaking out about social issues, she has a problem with athletes who don’t agree with her speaking out about social issues. I was similarly frustrated a while back when I heard a CNN anchor comparing the Trump impeachment to the Clinton impeachment, saying the latter was “just about a dress”. It’s ridiculous.

    On a somewhat related note, I don’t know how many fellow gamers there are here, but if you want to talk about politics intersecting with entertainment, you should look up the backlash around “The Last of Us Part II”. It’s a game that’s due to be released in the next week or two, and some of the plot details leaked online and caused a bit of an uproar. Gamers are often accused of being sexist, misogynist, etc., so it’s hard to tell how much of the backlash is due to “wokeness” or if it’s just because people are genuinely disappointed in the game’s plot.

    Like

    • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

      I definitely feel like look, if the NFL players want to kneel, go for if the NFL allows them to do it. I don’t agree, but they don’t need my permission or agreement. I don’t believe they’re necessarily educated about the actual issues, but since when does someone need to educated to have an opinion or take a stand? I also believe if their fans want to boo them or not watch on TV, then they too can do so even though they are also as equally uneducated about the actual issues.

      Speaking of consistency, what I have issues with more than anything are the hypocrites and liars from the NBA. LeBron, Kerr, Popovich, and the rest can have whatever opinions they want, but then to be silent or even defend China in the horrors they commit simply because it’s good for their bottom line is the kind of immoral nonsense that I abhor. They stand for nothing. They are performative virtue signalers when it gets them follows on social media and good press from the media, but the moment they could actually take a stand against something or a government that actually is evil, they all, every single one of them, suddenly have nothing to say.

      Screw the NBA coaches and players. They’re all fakes and frauds.

      Like

      • Texas Dawg

        Most of them make big money off of shoe contracts. Those shoes are manufactured in sweat shops in 3rd world Asian countries. The plight of those workers is obviously of no concern to them because they don’t speak out and keep cashing the checks. I guess 3rd world Asian lives don’t matter.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

          It’s not just the plight of slave-wager earners in Vietnam or China. It’s about the evil the government of China does. Like imprisoning over a million Muslims in concentration camps 50 miles away from the NBA’s summer league. Like taking away the rights of the citizens in Hong Kong, undoing the one country, two systems form of government they promised to uphold.

          China is evil. You’d never hear LeBron, Kerr, or Pop admit it.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Texas Dawg

            Your preaching to the choir. The NBA has too much on the line financially. It is amazing how when it is your pocketbook that’s threatened, the problem is not really that bad.

            Like

            • Derek

              The usa has too much money on the line. That’s far more accurate.

              They have us by the balls and we handed them over voluntarily.

              Some thought that economic prosperity would automatically lead to freedom in China. Huge miscalculation.

              The sooner we admit that, the better off we’ll be.

              Like

          • Derek

            Shut up and dribble but be my puppet when I think it’s appropriate.

            After all can’t Americans effect policy in Beijing to a greater degree than Minneapolis?

            This is not to suggest that I think silence is appropriate on China. I say fuck China. If i ran the zoo they’d never have gotten this powerful without substantial human rights concessions. I’d be happy to risk a great deal of economic hardship to bring them in line before its too late. Just highlighting the fact that there appears to be two inconsistent messages here:

            1) They should shut up because who cares what they have to say.
            2) When they talk I should hear what I want to hear.

            Seems inconsistent to me.

            Like

            • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

              Nothing exists in a vacuum, Derek. If they are performative virtue signalers only when it doesn’t affect their bottom line, then they are piece of shit human beings. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

              They’re no different than the “Do what I say, not what I do,” preachers like Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker or Joel Ostein. They’re no different than the secretly gay politicians who carried on gay affairs but voted against gay rights time and time again to keep their little slice of power. They’re charlatans and frauds and garbage people. They don’t actually believe in what they say, only the relative power and popularity it brings them.

              If you feel like you must defend them, by all means, it’s your right to do so. It tells us more about you than you realize. Or maybe not. Maybe you don’t care either way.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Texas Dawg

                We will see how the wallet affects the SJW mentality. We have heard multiple pro athletes discuss not playing until the changes that THEY demand are made (who the hell knows what that really is). If they don’t get what they want will they sit out and forfeit millions in pay or will they play and whine about it. If they sit out and put their money where their mouth is, it won’t make we agree with them, but it will earn some respect. If they don’t get what they want but still play and collect their millions, well then they are just a bunch of virtue signaling hypocrites.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Derek

                Where is the defense? I’m not seeing it.

                I’m simply saying you can encourage them to speak out or you can say we don’t care what they say.

                You can’t do both.

                I think they should speak up and be held accountable when they do.

                If they want to be silent, stay silent. If they want to speak, speak, but prepared to be criticized.

                What I won’t agree with is that athlete’s opinions are unwanted and/or unimportant.

                Ali is the greatest in part because he spoke truth to power. He is THE #1 athlete of all time because he was great at what he did in the ring and for what he stood for as a man.

                Not perfect by far, but Ali was by far more courageous than any public figure in my lifetime.

                Who looks at the US government in the eye and essentially says “fuck you” and wins and then looks George Foreman in eye and says “I thought you could hit” and wins?

                Baddest dude ever IMHO and a great deal of that is because of what happened outside the ring.

                Like

                • Texas Dawg

                  I did not say they should sit out, THEY SAID THEY WOULD IF THEY DID NOT GET WHAT THEY WANT. Well, put up or shut up. I agree, Ali put his money where his mouth was ( and what a mouth it was) and is a legend larger than life. Will today’s multi, multi millionaires be willing to sacrifice like he did or are they all hat and no cattle?

                  Like

                • Derek

                  We’re waiting aren’t we?

                  I mean you could fudge Colin in there if you insisted. Arguably he’d be wearing a baseball cap somewhere making good money had he not protested but I never agreed with the delivery of his message and he wasn’t the best in the game when he put himself at risk either.

                  I personally thought the raised fist was more appropriate. The kneel suggests opting out to me and I didn’t like that method. I know it can be argued that its not my place to say how one should do it, but the 1968 Olympic model works for me and pissed everyone off at the time. I think it still has some currency.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  CK discovered that being a professional victim pays better than backup QB. His shenanigans at his latest tryout cost him many of the few supporters he had left.

                  It felt like something out of a movie. “Go to the bench in the northeast corner of the park. Taped underneath is the address of the practice field. Come alone.”

                  Like

                • From now until the end of time I will owe you for the expression “all hat and no cattle.” Thank you, Texas Dawg. It’s the perfect expression of the concept.

                  I would nominate this for our official nomenclature, but I’m sure the Senator has long ago withdrawn from the chaos to which we have predictably descended.

                  Like

                • Texas Dawg

                  Glad to be of service

                  Like

    • Gamers are upset because that’s a very popular title that in order to check some intersectionality boxes they have completely changed who the heroes are and the plot.

      Like

      • mddawg

        I’ve just replayed the remastered version of the first one, was looking forward to the sequel. Now I’ll probably wait to here a review or two before I decide if I’m going to pick it up.

        Like

  32. PTC DAWG

    Did y’all hear the joke about the cure for the Covid?

    It’s a riot.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Napoleon BonerFart

      “The Constitution is a suicide pact.” – Justice Arthur Goldberg (probably)

      Once the government no longer has the consent of the governed, it’s comforting to know that the government can just kill them. Might makes right and all that.

      Like

  33. jt10mc (the other one)

    They are ALL hypocrites. Entertainers and Jocks get paid to entertain. Take a trip to any other country in the world and they laugh at the fact we in our country debate these things.
    I really don’t care what any of these people think. What the Constitution and the Law state is what matters. Follow the law and typically you won’t find yourself in trouble. If the man had been any other race, there wouldn’t have been a peep about this. The officers didn’t follow proper procedure for someone on drugs or drunk they do deserve to be held accountable by the LAW not lynch mobs.

    Lastly there is a group inciting the riots are backed by the Communist Party…don’t believe me…look it up. Btw they are funded by…George Soros…the same guy who helped Nazis hunt Jews in his native country during WWII. Don’t believe me look it up. Yep tolerence is ok along as the POV is yours.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

    Is Smashing Pumpkins secretly the best band from the 90’s?

    I mean, yeah, okay, obviously Nirvana is the best band from the 90’s, or Pearl Jam I guess if you’re a pretentious a-hole, and R.E.M. did release four great albums in the 90’s, but is Smashing Pumpkins the low-key the best band from the 90’s?

    Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness are two all-time great albums, and they are full of amazing songs. Listen to Disarm. Or 1979. Or Bullets with Butterfly Wings. Or or or… seriously, any great Smashing Pumpkins song is in the running for best song of the 90’s. I happen to think it’s Disarm.

    Anyway… wanted to talk about something more constructive. Arguing over great bands of the 90’s is so much better than arguing about kneeling or politics or whatever else.

    Like

    • Derek

      Its Nirvana and not even close. There are no other great bands of the 1990’s.

      In fact, it could be argued that there have been no great bands since Nirvana.

      Good? Sure? Great? Nope.

      Like

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        I think where we find many of our differences are in certain absolutes you can take. Now, I am no stranger to making absolute statements. Like, “R.E.M. is the greatest American band in rock history.”

        However, I find the absolute here in favor of Nirvana to be off base, because even though I agree with you, I do believe arguments can be made for other bands.

        Some of those bands are: Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, R.E.M., and Smashing Pumpkins. Not Pearl Jame because eff them.

        As for other great bands since Nirvana, even if they’re not as great as Nirvana, but still great overall? Well, the aforementioned Smashing Pumpkins. Radiohead. Stone Temple Pilots. Foo Fighters. Early Green Day. Weezer. Oasis. White Stripes. Black Keys. Vampire Weekend. Mumford & Sons.

        Great rock bands trickled out by the end of the aughts. Slim to none finding one in the 2010’s.

        Like

        • AIC, Radiohead, Nirvana, REM, Muse, Smashing Pumpkins, and NIN are the kings, to borrow Montana terminology. IMHO. Metallica is grandfathered in.

          Like

          • I would argue REM is more folk than rock, but any band that was idolized by Kurt Cobain – as REM was – deserves consideration. Michael Stipe is Frances Bean’s godfather.

            Like

            • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

              No no no no… folk??? Dude, stop listening to just Out it Time and Automatic with their jangly mandolins and venture into their 80’s and mid-90’s output.

              R.E.M. INVENTED alternative rock. There is no grunge without them. No Alanis going dark from her pop princess days (well, maybe Dave Coullier had more to do with that). There is no Radiohead. Thom Yorke calls them a big inspiration.

              As does Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam… basically every great band of the late 80’s through the 90’s and into the 00’s.

              They are the greatest American rock band. No band in history, not even the Beatles, the Stones, or Led Zep had a 10 album run like R.E.M. had from a Chronic Town in 1982 through to New Adventures in Hi-Fi in 1996. It is the greatest run in music history.

              Like

              • Derek

                Sonic Youth!!!

                REM made alt rock popular, but they were riding on a lot of anonymous shoulders. Not that they aren’t completely aware of that.

                Nirvana is similarly situated. Without punk and bands like the pixies there is no Nirvana.

                For me a great band creates some seismic shift in the music scene and a cultural impact and spawns a bunch of copycats and is usually stealing like mad from existing and undiscovered bands and then repackages it for the masses in a way that just clicks. Or the band just stands a substantial test of time.

                I just don’t know that you can point to a band after Nirvana that was particularly influential in the broader culture, musical or otherwise.

                Of course to be clear my list of great bands would be very short:

                Beatles
                Stones
                Led Zep
                Black Sabbath
                Velvet Underground
                Stooges
                Guns and Roses
                Nirvana
                Ramones
                Pink Floyd

                Just about anything else was either derivative, short lived or just not that interesting to me. (I’m excluding artists like Bowie and Dylan since they aren’t a “band.”)

                So when I say that there haven’t been any since Nirvana, my “mount rushmore” is small.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  That’s not a bad list, but I do disagree with you about R.E.M. What they accomplished is second only to the three great British bands.

                  My Mount Rushmore of Great Rock Bands follows that, then.

                  The Beatles. The Rolling Stones. Led Zeppelin. R.E.M.

                  A list of great bands from me would look something like:

                  Buddy Holly and The Crickets
                  The Beach Boys
                  The Beatles
                  The Rolling Stones
                  The Who
                  Led Zeppelin
                  Queen
                  Velvet Underground
                  Fleetwood Mac
                  Steely Dan
                  Rush
                  The Police
                  The Clash
                  Ramones
                  Talking Heads
                  R.E.M.
                  Guns N Roses
                  Sonic Youth
                  Radiohead
                  Alice In Chains
                  Nirvana
                  Soundgarden
                  Smashing Pumpkins
                  Weezer
                  Foo Fighters
                  White Stripes
                  Black Keys

                  I could be persuaded to add Vampire Weekend, but I think the Black Keys may be the last true great rock band.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Also, even though I had Buddy Holly and The Crickets on there, I struggle with Jimi Hendrix and Bruce Springsteen.

                  Given that you can take them away from the “Experience” and “the E Street Band” and they’re still great, well, that’s what it is.

                  Also follows for the great Motown acts. The Four Tops and The Temptations are great acts, but aren’t bands in that they’re not playing instruments.

                  Like

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            Metallica had one great album in the 90’s, and that was their eponymous album colloquially known as The Black Album. And while Garage Inc. is a lot of fun, Load and Reload, while probably more maligned than they should be, well, it wasn’t a great decade by their previous 80’s standards.

            Like

            • Master of Puppets is their magnum opus, if you ask me.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                Arguments can be made for … And Justice for All, but as far as just pure thrash metal albums go, it’s hard to beat Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning.

                I’ll always love Metallica best because it’s one of the first albums I ever bought on CD.

                Like

  35. TNDAWG

    That people are actually influenced by an athlete or actor is confounding. Most are not more intelligent or informed than the average Joe/Josefina. Some are actually dumber than those that listen to them.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Derek

      Millions of people were justifiably and positively influenced by Ali.

      The same could be said for people like Bear Bryant or Vince Dooley or Mark Richt.

      There’s nothing wrong with sports heroes. Its part of the reason we watch.

      As for actors? I’ll admit I’m struggling….

      Musicians? Dylan is someone who said things worth paying close attention to.

      Like

      • When I am persuaded by people, it is because of the strength of their argument, their respect for me, their experience, and their resistance to the temptation to go ad hominem. I won’t exclude anyone based on their status as celebrity, professional, layman, or elected official. I also am suspicious of anyone who speaks in absolutes like “always,” “never,” “everyone,” or “no one.” The truth is always somewhere in the middle. And I hate the concept of corporate guilt. Most, but not all, cops are good. Most protestors, but not all, are sincere and constructive. The anecdotal is important, but the empirical – the data – still matters in policy decisions. Unintended consequences are real, and sweeping policy decisions made at the end of the mob’s bayonet could devastate the very communities we are trying to protect. I don’t think we are all as different as we think we are. And knowing that, the vitriol in our national discourse – even seen here – is heartbreaking to me. We want the same things. We don’t agree on how to get there. As a white, Christian, conservative-leaning man, watching George Floyd die on video over an agonizing eight minutes shook me. I’m not ready to toss all my values out the window or deny the fact that progress has been made, but I am ready to listen. And I think that if I were a young African American male in my twenties who had a platform to use, I would use it. I’d be pissed – hell, I AM pissed. And I’d probably get it wrong a few times before I got it right. The rage is fair and it’s understandable. I say give people space to be angry and grieve and maybe not say exactly the right thing. That’s my two cents.

        Liked by 2 people

  36. mg4life0331

    https://imgur.com/2DIvPNN

    Can’t believe this wasn’t posted.

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  37. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    The exciting news for all my black friends pictured here in the Upper Bunker is that soon I’ll be Livin’ on Tulsa Time

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  38. BuffaloSpringfield

    Union Jack :
    For What it’s Worth I did see all the commentary on Epix, there was a lot of Ladies of the Canyon. Mama Cass was just One of those Joni Mitchell and many others.Different time different purpose.
    Not sure I have seen a comment on June 6, 1944 as of yet. I guess we all soon forget. Who knows what tomorrow brings. Maybe I can get with Munson in the next 67 Years and maybe Catfish and Lewis Grizzard ( even though he didn’t care for deer huntin’ ) Don’t recon’ McGarity will be checking tickets down there. I am assuming I might get to visit President Adams and go to his tailgate. I am sure that’s where he’s spending the rest of his time.

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  39. BuffaloSpringfield

    For What it’s Worth : I am the only one on this blog to note the meaning of June 6, 1944. How far we have come and yet how far behind we are. Those among you speaking here would lie of your age to enlist and fight not among yourselves but the enemy of our country. Instead we choose to fight against each other. Internally we fall.

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    • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

      The Day of Days is not forgotten.

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    • Got Cowdog

      You may be the only one to note it here, but you aren’t the only one to be in awe of what that generation did and not only on that day. I think the Marines landed in Saipan the next week? That bunch (Generationally speaking) was way tougher and leaner than mine/ours and any subsequent generation so far, but what test have we really faced as a nation since the depression then WWII?

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  40. BuffaloSpringfield

    Then there was no reason on 9-1-1, I guess that those EMT, firefighters and policemen that went up in the Towers really have a reason. They didn’t know anyone in there or did they. Perhaps those men and women were thinking of their own personal gain. I guess they should have just stood back like the mayor this evening and said of his policemen tonight in Hampton Roads, Va. It’s best to let chaos take over and stand by and peacefully destroy. The Mayor’s words were “It’s just a piece of rock”, we are going to take it down anyway.
    Yes Derek the times are a changing. Not positive this was in Dylan’s mind when he penned these words to the iconic tune.
    For What it’s Worth :

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  41. TN Dawg

    I kinda like the way this blog progressed.

    You wanna argue politics? Here. Here is you a place to do it.

    Leave it out of the rest, unless it is the unavoidable intertwining of politics and sports.

    When I first discovered this blog entire threads could become unreadable after the “you’re a Nazi” vs “you’re a Commie” stuff started.

    I think the playpen was a great idea.

    I’m no stranger to the joys of a good five minutes of hate myself, so I’m not really pointing fingers. I’m just saying politics in an apolitical setting does tend to put the stench on it and lessen the entertainment value.

    I don’t Playpen here much if at all because it’s pointless. No one is changing anyone’s mind or opening up anyone to any new ideas. It’s just verbal sparring.

    I also don’t go to a gathering of atheists and argue with them about Jesus. Nor do I go to a bar where I know I will be arguing with everyone. It’s pointless and it’s asking for misery.

    That is to say that yes, we tend to avoid situations in life that we know to be bound for controversy and antithetical POVs. You can guarantee that will invariably apply to sports viewership as well.

    The sports networks could probably engage more in politics if they actually offered opposing POVs without turning off too many viewers. Fox Sports kind of pulled this off by balancing some of the more social justice angles by pairing them with Jason Whitlock.

    But an echo chamber of Screamin’ A. Smith discussing politics for four hours with four nodding heads is not really all that enthralling or even thought provoking. It’s about as riveting as an infomercial.

    I don’t think sports and politics have to be kept isolated, in fact it is basically impossible to do so. But where you want people to find entertainment, you are going to have to offer something that at least approaches balance. Elsewise, yes, you are bound to lose the interest of viewers.

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    • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

      The Athletic is about to purposefully kill themselves because they just can’t help indulging the Leftist viewpoints of the majority of their writers. Their response to the NBA-China issue was horrible. They lost subscribers over it. Now they’re losing more the last couple of weeks. How you can take the killing of George Floyd, something almost everyone agrees was a horrible instance of police brutality and use it as a platform for your individual ideology, whatever that happens to be, and lose the thread of the issue… well, that takes some doing. So congrats on Stew Mandel for allowing The Athletic to indulge their worst instincts.

      Viewpoint diversity is the only true diversity there is because it has nothing to do with immutable characteristics and everything to do with individual choice. There is little to no viewpoint diversity in journalism, though sports journalism generally has more run of the mill liberals and moderate conservatives than mainstream journalism or new journalism, but they’re generally afraid to provide their actual viewpoint in their reporting. Which generally makes them the best journalists of the bunch. Wanna pinpoint a moderate or conservative journalist? It’s the one you don’t know what they believe.

      Liked by 1 person

      • mddawg

        I think you hit on something really important there with “viewpoint diversity”. I was having a conversation with a coworker a while back about diversity & inclusion, which is something our company focuses heavily on. Other than our age, me and this coworker are about as diverse of a pair as you’re likely to find. Different sex, different skin color, different orientation, we check all of the boxes. But both of us are prior Navy, so we have a lot in common as far as our training and professional development. As a result, we’re almost always 100% in agreement when it comes to how we manage our employees. So while we might appear diverse on the outside, we’re actually not that diverse at all.

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        • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

          If everyone thinks the same, all the other stuff is just set dressing.

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  42. Classic City Canine

    Ironic that Shapiro needs his safe space but can’t allow anyone else to have theirs. The hypocrisy in politics these days is astounding.

    I understand that folks need a break from a hard world and that’s what sports can do, but there’s a difference between taking a break and sticking you head in the sand to ignore a problem. The “stick to sports” crowd is doing the latter and I’ve got no patience for it. Stop using black athletes (and artists) for your entertainment and then denying them the right to express themselves as fellow humans.

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  43. ciddawg

    I do appreciate the playpen because you masked, white wine straw drinkers and social distance Karen’s really blossom into full view.
    What brother Ben is saying is that the games and competitions we have looked to for diversion and entertainment will never be the same…granted there have been incidents where politics have been injected into and occasionally overwhelmed a sporting event…but nothing like we are fixing to see…nope, we will now experience a never before considered level of disruption… where the game is merely an inconsequential backdrop to the frenetic attention seeking narcissistic judgmentalism from social “warriors”.
    Its here now, the inmates are calling the shots (see Seattle)…the purple haired cows are out of the barn…
    EVERY sporting event moving forward will be disrupted by some “woke”, “triggered”,ass kissing kneeler virtue creaming and disrupting what Ben (and most of you) consider your”safe place” aka a respite from reality aka the reason behind your man cave……
    Good .. serves you bed wetting enablers right, hope it makes all of you (specially you Derek) miserable…because of you socialist ass hats we will now seamlessly devolve into the post fan era of sports… fans won’t go because nobody can lay hands on the militants and millennial’s due to the Population Control Plandemic and eventually we can’t keep score because if you win you’re “privileged” and losers feel “oppressed” and we can’t have that…so with all the aggravation, political posturing and lack of sport taking place nobody will watch… and when there’s no fan base there’s no TV, when there’s no TV there’s no ads, when there’s no ads there’s no money…and THEN the Senator can start covering the real competition that’s coming to a neighborhood near you… “Darwinism” …the anarchists are tired of living in Granny’s basement and want to get paid with all the stuff you’ve been saving up for them..and the Cops aren’t here because you senseless democrats de-funded and disbanded them. The Vikings and the Buccaneers will be coming to see you soon and the Patriots will be the spectators… some of us will have entertainment…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Somehow I don’t think whatever’s coming is going to make me as miserable as you appear to be now.

      Seriously, man, take a few deep breaths. Nothing is that bad.

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      • Ad hominem is so in right now. Sigh.

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        • ciddawg

          I’ll ad your hominem and raise you one….its the individual that parrots the bullshit that’s trending because he feels safe amongst fellow group thinkers…have another white wine hit dawg…

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          • No, the sad thing is I’m probably closer to you on the political spectrum than most of the people on this blog. And I recognize that the kinds of tactics that you, and others like you, prefer to use will mean no one will be willing to listen to the legitimate arguments that can be made for conservatism by those who would rather win hearts and minds than label and call people names. I can relate to the good cops who are being painted with the broad strokes of the few bad ones, and I can also relate to the peaceful protesters who are being tarnished by the minority of opportunists who are taking advantage of the chaos. I feel like people with my mindset are a shrinking minority.

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            • And I prefer bourbon.

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              • ciddawg

                Granted, I am jaded by my observation’s and experience in the play pen, but the sad situation is that there are no hearts or minds for you to win anymore…If you’ve read these comments over time then you have seen first hand those that parrot provable lies from the media and walk right past law, logic and reason to virtue signal to their fellow sheep that they are one in mind and flock. You call it ad hominem because you still think you are discussing and debating a point or position that has a chance to be accepted with facts and tactfulness…the times have passed you by my friend …what used to be thought provoking free love liberalism has morphed into a religious militant fascism. “Question Authority” has turned into kneel to the anti-authority… Orange Man Bad!!! Anything we can do to overturn an election is justified!! Stay in the house! Shut down your business! Ruin the economy!!! Wear a mask or we will arrest you!! And when that quits working a “cop” in Minnesota magically appears to kill a guy he worked with for 17 years while three other “cops” just stood on their marks…So forget social distancing!!! You cant social distance in a rioting- looting mob..but don’t worry you can’t get arrested for that… just kids blowing off a little steam… rub some dirt on that…The head of the democrat party now kneels and regurgitates what the anitfa /brown shirt /social gods feed them…especially if they think they can unload a little self induced guilt and hang with the enemy of my enemy… you sound like a nice guy, but the reason people with your mindset are a rapidly decreasing minority is that the rest of us have accepted the obvious… fear is the new opiate of the masses, its not a political issue its religious. Its ok to kill newborn babies but not serial murderers. You think you are going to persuade someone that believes that…
                We no longer sugar coat what we say in the hope that the frenzied mob red pills. My only hope is that the silent majority will realize they are not alone and rise up and pull the curtain back on the silver pony tail club for the posers they are… Pass the bourbon then…

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      • ciddawg

        Yeah…probably not….just a little glide path navel gazing… but then again…Who’s going to stop it? Pelosi? Nadler? Fredo? Biden doesn’t know what day it is…Mr. He’s not your President will sit back and let you have all you want of the liberal Government you voted for in NY, NJ, Minnesota and California…I’m pretty sure sports will never be the same and a lot of people will tune out….which is what Shapiro was saying…

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  44. CB

    It doesn’t effect my sports viewership, but dumbass support of either political party (and that’s how I view all of it) tends to irk me.

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