Your 6.17.20 Playpen

I may make this the official logo of the Playpen:

duty_calls

Anyway, let’s get to it.

In one corner, Clay Travis.

In the other, Andy Staples.

But there’s something unique about the power dynamics in college football. I spoke with Andy Staples, a college football writer at the Athletic, who told me that football players at big-time programs have realized something very important: “Without them, there is no athletic department.” As many universities make deep cuts to athletic programs in a fiscal response to the coronavirus pandemic, Staples said that athletic directors are well aware that college football, a multibillion-dollar industry attracting hundreds of thousands to stadiums and tens of millions of viewers every year, is the golden goose they need to survive.

“[Programs] have to have a football season or basically everybody loses their jobs because there’s no money,” he said. “So the football players are looking at this and going, ‘Wait a second, they need us at this point even more than we need them.’”

… Staples noted during our conversation that many coaches are trying to educate themselves during this moment. “Most coaches really do care about their players. They want them to succeed. They want them to be happy. And I think there’s a lot of coaches that are looking and saying, how can I help understand better so that I can do the job better?” (And it doesn’t hurt, from their perspective, that speaking out in favor of racial equality could also help recruit and retain future players.[Emphasis added.]

So, who you got?  More to the point, who you got, personally speaking, as a college football fan, versus who you got, if you were a head football coach?

Have at it in the comments.  (Don’t make me send you to time out, you scamps.)

350 Comments

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350 responses to “Your 6.17.20 Playpen

  1. mwo

    What bothers me about the whole issue is Gundy not being able to wear the shirt. I don’t care what it is, as long as it’s not vulgar or worn to purposefully hurt someone else. What I don’t understand is, if Hubbard doesn’t agree with it, why does he get to make the decision Gundy doesn’t get to wear it? I may not agree with someone’s views or stance but I will not stand for someone to take away their right to have that stance or opinion. I’m not trying to start shit or sound naive but I honestly don’t understand. Hosea Williams marched in Forsyth county to protest their segregation. He was met with a lot of resistance, A week or so later, a pro-segregationist group of neo-nazi skinheads applied for a permit to march in the county as well. Their application was denied. Hosea went back up there and marched to protest the denial of the permit to the skinheads. I’m sure he didn’t march because he shared their ideologies. He marched because the nazis were denied the right to march.

    Like

    • I don’t think you are framing what’s occurred at OSU correctly. What I saw was Gundy expressing his opinion and Hubbard expressing his. It was up to Gundy, as head coach, to decide what was best for his program. Hubbard didn’t “make” him do anything.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Hubbard threatened not to play unless Gundy bent the knee. Gundy had two choices…agree, or defend himself which would have inevitably led to his removal.

        Liked by 1 person

      • mwo

        I understand that, and I apologize if it seemed I didn’t get that. It makes more sense now and I appreciate that. When Hubbard tweeted he wasn’t doing anything OSU related he made Gundy decide if he’d rather wear a shirt or have the services of the leading rusher from last season.

        Like

        • Derek

          Hubbard didn’t want to play for a coach who promoted/sympathized with a news outlet that is demonstrably hostile to BLM.

          Gundy wants/needs Hubbard to play.

          Everyone is entitled to their opinions. No one is entitled to consequence-free opinions.

          Liked by 2 people

          • So you are on board with cancel culture?

            Liked by 2 people

            • Derek

              Only if Trump is promoting it:

              Or when O’Reilly promoted boycotting all things french when France had the temerity to suggest that Iraq v.2 was not such a great idea.

              Those conservative led cancel culture types are fine right?

              Seriously though, the idea that in order to make some people comfortable with saying controversial things we have to be open to every controversial thing is silly.

              If the ceo of Apple gives the keynote address at a NAMBLA convention I think its ok to stop buying iPhones for a while.

              The issue is where you draw the line and everyone has to decide that for themselves.

              Herds of sheep are scary, but whats the alternative? Less information? Less power to effect change?

              Like

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                For me, but not for thee.

                What will you do when they come for you, Derek? You can virtue signal to your heart’s content, but eventually even that won’t be enough.

                You will do something in your life that at some point will be objectionable, it’s only a matter of time as what is objectionable changes so swiftly as the Overton Window continues to move leftward at astonishing speeds. They may not even give you the ability to performative apologize. You may find that business you said you own is here one day and gone the next, and not for any discernible or understandable reason.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  I’ll either shut up or accept the consequences for not shutting up.

                  What I wont do is be a whiny little bitch and believe that I’m entitled to a world without consequences.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  It has nothing to do with living in a world without consequences.

                  I am in total agreement with you that with free speech comes the consequences of free speech.

                  However, you do realize these aren’t NORMAL consequences, right?

                  People should not be getting fired for having a different point of view or criticizing a political movement, and yet that is what’s happening. These are not normal consequences Derek, and for you to equivocate that they are is horrific.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  Wrong,

                  Who got fired? I missed that?

                  Should we let Wrong draw the lines?

                  Seems irresponsible.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Grant Napear, former Sac Kings radio announcer.

                  Gordon Klein, UCLA professor.

                  Stu Peters, who challenged the idea of “white privilege” on British radio.

                  Editors at the New York Times and Phi. Inquirer forced to “step down” for “allowing” Op-Eds that disagree with BLM.

                  The EIC at Variety for having the temerity to disagree with a black staffer that her (the EIC’s) apologetic Op-Ed for being white was not apologetic enough.

                  An LA Galaxy soccer player.

                  Harald Ulig, an economist at the U of Chicago is being called to be fired next for criticizing BLM. Guess which noble laureate economist is leading the charge for this man’s cancelling.

                  Stockwell Day, a former Canadian politician, lost his job after going on the news and saying he didn’t believe Canada was a racist country and that most Canadians are not racist. The horror!

                  BLM is even going after a kid’s show about animals who are public servants like police officers and firefighters, meaning all the people who work on that show, the artists and the writers and voice actors, would lose their jobs.

                  But sure Derek… no one has been fired for disagreeing with BLM.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • Derek

                  And everyone of them, knew or should have known, what they were stepping into.

                  Remember Jimmy the Greek and Al Campanis and Howard Cosell? I do.

                  You can clutch your new pearls all you like, but this is pretty vintage stuff.

                  If we could have gotten your level of concern from folks like you when Emmett Till was killed, perhaps we’d have the country you deserve now.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  The strawmen… it BURNS.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Seriously Derek, I provide you proof that you’re wrong (and that’s only a partial list of people fired or trying to be fired for publicly disagreeing with BLM or not being apologetic “enough”) and that’s the best you can do?

                  You may disagree with me, you may not even like me, I don’t know and don’t care, but when I’m wrong, at least I admit it. It’s okay to admit when you’re wrong, man. Try it on for size. You may find it freeing.

                  Liked by 3 people

                • Derek

                  First, in context it appeared that you were referring to Gundy, who was not fired. I couldn’t have anticipated what you didn’t say.

                  Doesn’t change my mind.

                  The issue is this:

                  Are somethings so abhorrent that they require termination?

                  Yes.

                  Will we all agree on what those are?

                  No.

                  Should you watch you ass?

                  Yes.

                  If you don’t might you find yourself on the wrong side of a dumb mob?

                  Sure.

                  Is there a way to do this where we all agree?

                  No.

                  So stop bitching about it. Play along or stand up to it and deal. Be a man.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Again, the defense of the indefensible because you think it aligns with what you believe is in and of itself, indefensible.

                  This is not liberal behavior, Derek. This is authoritarian behavior.

                  As I have for the last 20 or so years of my life, I cast myself with the liberals. It’s not whining. It wasn’t whining when I wanted my cousin to be able to marry his boyfriend, and it’s not whining now when I want people to not suffer ridiculous consequences for having different opinions from me or anyone else, let alone a political organization that anyone should never fear disagreeing with on any point.

                  No matter what the people who have moved the Overton Window so far to the left in this country that being a liberal is now seen as being “right wing” by many of them, wrong is wrong.

                  The line must be drawn here. I will not capitulate. It sounds like you have, but again I remind you: It will not protect you.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  and I don’t want or seek its protection.

                  People on the right had their good time using all means to promote their viewpoint.

                  Go to the lynching museum in Montgomery to get just a sample of its doings.

                  If it switches, it may well be as ugly. But I doubt it.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Most of the people doing the lynching weren’t on the political right, at least not back then. We keep coming back to this false belief many of these Far Leftists that have taken over the political left in this country have that people on the right, who think differently than them, are racist or evil or whatever. Man, that’s just not true. Many of the people who voted for Trump, especially in the Midwest who voted twice for Obama, are not racist people. They’re not evil. There are far less actual racists in this country than these people believe. I don’t know why so many people hold with this notion that to disagree with one side means the other side is evil. And you’re right, many on the right thought that way for years, too. Social Conservatism is just as authoritarian as Neo Progressivism, just in different ways, but they never had the kind of power in media and entertainment as the Neo Progs do now.

                  It’s funny, Derek. I think the thing that so many people are missing is something their parents should have told them long ago:

                  Two wrongs don’t make a right.

                  It really just comes down to that.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • WIll (the other one)

                  I mean if your worry is people getting fired for what you feel are frivolous reasons and they have little recourse to contest these firings, maybe you’d like to revisit right to work laws?

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Not even on the level of being the same thing, but if you must erect strawmen, then by all means.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  Yep. Flaming libs those violent segregationists:

                  http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477

                  “The Dixiecrats were a political party organized in the summer of 1948 by conservative white southern Democrats committed to states’ rights and the maintenance of segregation and opposed to federal intervention into race, and to a lesser degree, labor relations. The Dixiecrats, formally known as the States’ Rights Democratic Party, were disturbed by their region’s declining influence within the national Democratic Party. The Dixiecrats held their one and only convention in Birmingham.

                  1948 Democratic National Convention
                  The roots of the Dixiecrat revolt lay in opposition to the New Deal policies, particularly the pro-labor reforms introduced by the Fair Labor Standards Act and the Wagner Act. The more immediate impetus for the movement, however, included President Harry Truman’s civil rights program, introduced in February 1948; the civil rights plank in the national Democratic Party’s 1948 presidential platform; and the unprecedented political mobilization of southern blacks in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Smith v. Allwright in 1944. In this Texas case, the Court ruled the white primary law violated the Fifteenth Amendment and was therefore unconstitutional. The states of the Upper South acquiesced in the ruling, but the decision was a political bombshell in the Deep South. White legislators across the region sought ways to circumvent the ruling, and African Americans organized voter-registration campaigns. Across the South, more than a half million African Americans registered to vote in the 1946 Democratic Party primaries.”

                  They switched from the Democrats to the Republicans. They didn’t switch ideologies. They switched political parties.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Derek’s lemonade stand can’t be affected by Nazi bureaucrats. But if it were, you can bet your ass that the internet tough guy would start punching Nazis and would never stop.

                  Like

              • They can take your life, but they can never take…your…

                FREEDOM FRIES!!!

                Like

            • gastr1

              Some things need to be canceled. What if he’d worn Nazi armband, for example? Would it have still been ok?

              I get that OAN is not remotely equivalent to Nazism. But the point is, free speech may be allowed in many regards… but there is, and always has been, a price to pay when that free speech is deemed toxic by the vast majority of the culture.

              (Oh, by the way, Marge Schott did everything but wear her actual Nazi armband in public, which was her right…she committed no crimes. Was MLB wrong to “cancel” her back in 1993?)

              Like

              • Derek

                Precisely. The issue isn’t that people don’t think some things should be canceled, its that we disagree on the basis for it.

                We’re all free to either cater to or to step on those very sensitive toes and live with the consequences.

                Like

                • Has anyone seen the doc Hail Satan? It’s very interesting (and free with Hulu subscription). Without typing a really long post, just trust me that it has everything to do with what we’re talking about here. Based on TST, I identify as a satanist 😉

                  Like

          • doofusdawg

            Several things. On Gundy. He’s making over $5 mill per year. What the hell else would he be doing if he wasn’t coaching. He had no choice. The ironic thing is that every time something goes wrong with any aspect of Okie State football… this will be brought up… he is toast… just a matter of time.

            On OANN and Trump and BLM and all us other alleged racists. It is my understanding that BLM is not even a 501c3. All contributions to them actually go to Act Blu… which is just the democrat party as they just hand out money to democrat candidates and causes. Criticizing BLM is not the same thing as somehow being anti black… but the marketing and complicit media have made them one in the same for political reasons. This is one of the consequences of identity politics and democrat community organizing. Saying we are all individuals is not racist.

            Then you have militant protesters rioting and burning and tearing down statues which has nothing to do with making black lives better and so some see it as a farce. It’s all political and a lot of their support is just virtue signaling. It’s all the left has to offer. Folks are tired of it.

            Folks on both sides of the political spectrum should make an effort to seek out different news coverage outlets rather than just being fed their daily dose of propaganda reinforcement. The problem is that most all of the major media feeds are left. We can’t avoid it. Then sites like the Federalists and Zero Hedge… two sites that I go to daily are muzzled by the left and labeled as racist… canceled. Some of yall should try this. It’s a big world out there.

            The media and our politics… just like the products we buy are being balkanized to establish brand loyalty for their own respective halves of the population. The higher you go up these pyramids the more it becomes all about money. The pawns in the streets and on social media are just consumers… in one way or another. Trump represents a threat to the tops of both pyramids. Some of us see this. Big business vs. small business. Mainstream media vs. independent media. I could go on and on… and did.

            Liked by 2 people

            • I concur. Great post.

              Like

            • I would contend that folks on the left were tired of the right’s virtue signaling. Not trying to argue, but to pretend that the Christian right protesting over all of their myriad sky daddy issues wasn’t as bad as any of this is not paying attention.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                Um… the principle is just as bad, you are correct there, Ben.

                However, the REALITY? As bad as social conservatives are, did they cause $55M in property damage to a city as Antifa did in Minneapolis?

                Did they advocate the overthrow of the country’s government?

                Did they advocate the eradication of the nuclear family?

                Because these are just some of the things Neo progressives are very much responsible for, now.

                So you are right in a sense and so very wrong in another.

                Like

                • I would say that the trickle down of their religion being so closely intertwined with politics and policies, without the ability for other religions to have a fair stake in those government policies, has cause far more social damage than $55million. Your mileage may vary of course.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  You make this point without realizing that the secular religion of progressivism allowed to flourish unchecked in academia and media has done far more damage to the fabric of our country. It has absolutely destroyed and devastated the black American community all the while telling them they are victims and better off to continue to support these same policies that have destroyed their once strong culture.

                  Did you think Lyndon Johnson was kidding around? He set out to do just that, and he succeeded.

                  Like

                • I’m certainly not going to argue too much with you. You are clearly far more versed in history and politics than me. However, I’m speaking more in the overall fabric of this country, not just BLM (I am aware this veers from the main topic at hand, but hey playpen and such). My main point (which I’m not sure I’ve done a good job of explaining) is that what’s good for the goose is now not good for the gander. Many abortion doctors’ clinics have been burned down and doctors have been shot. That is in the name of an entity that is one simply cannot prove exists. I would ask, is that not the same thing that many are angry at over the BLM movement? At least black people have tangible proof for their rage.

                  I would be interested, however, in articles/books to learn more about what you are talking about. My knowledge of LBJ is limited to what I’ve forgotten from school and that he was one of the ex-presidents in Point Break.

                  Again, no snark here, I’m apparently learning as I go. I’ve decided that I don’t want to have snarky, gotcha conversations, because then you get what we have here every week….which solves zero.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  There are terrible ideas and bad actors on all sides. I abhorred the social conservatives which utilized political agents like the Christian Coalition for their terrible ideas in the same way I abhor the neo progressives and their utilization of Antifa and BLM (to a point) and other useful idiots. Terrible ideas and bad people are terrible and bad regardless of their ideologies. I’m someone who sees little to no difference between the Far Left and Far Right from a standard of principles, as they’re both authoritarian nut jobs, but the Far Left has far more reach and caché and have been normalized in reality. And that to me is scary, because their ideas are scary.

                  I think we agree more than we disagree here. I think the differences are in the scope. I worry more about what I see from the Far Left than the Far Right because how marginalized the Far Right is. The FBI reports actual white supremacists number less than 10K in this country. When you have 350M people in a country, that’s a tiny percentage of a percentage of people. Yes, people like Eric Robert Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh exist, but their individual reach is nothing compared to the reach of Antifa because they didn’t have 90% of the media and social media provide them aid and comfort.

                  Liked by 1 person

              • doofusdawg

                I’ll be honest. I never thought of the christian rights moral causes as virtue signaling. But the more I think of it I can see how one could. As I try to write I can’t find a good argument to disagree with you. Not that I have ever been on board with the christian rights desires to establish morals for the entire country.

                Perhaps it’s the authenticity that i have a problem with. But who am I to judge that.

                I greatly appreciate your comment.

                Liked by 1 person

                • doofusdawg

                  At the risk of incurring the Senator’s wrath… any thoughts on the Atlanta DA decision just now. I could see second or third degree murder charges although I would disagree… but damn. And how does the other cop get charged with aggravated assault.

                  I don’t live in Atlanta but imagine most of yall do.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  It is 100% ridiculous and even if convicted by an angry jury, won’t last through appeals. Brooks fired a taser at the cop, who then shot him. It was a justified shooting.

                  If cops cannot protect themselves, then all bets are off. This is ridiculous political posturing and bowing down to the pressure of the mob.

                  Like

                • I’ll call it 50% ridiculous (like low sodium Lays). Cops have been saying for years (to juries, judges, the public) that tazers do not equal deadly force. They can’t have it both ways. But the accomplice charges, jeez. We are going to have cops tackling each other in the streets because they fear the liability of one their fellow officer’s stupidity.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  See, where you’re wrong is that when a taser is shot at a cop they have right and duty to use one step up in force to protect themselves. This is precedent law decided in the courts.

                  One step up from a taser is a firearm.

                  Like

                • That varies by jurisdiction. The state certainly tried to cite several laws in support of their charges during the press conference that state that deadly force cannot be used when a suspect is fleeing or when the officer does not believe his life is in danger. Full disclosure: I’m a real estate attorney, not a criminal lawyer so I have no idea whether they were citing good law or not. I’m way outside my comfort zone here, but that has never stopped me before!

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  I’m not attorney at all, but I slept in a Holliday Inn Express last night, so this is my two cents:

                  A jury culled from some very angry people (justifiably and unjustifiably) will convict the cop of felony murder. He will then be acquitted on appeal. After he’s released, he will sue the shit out of the city, the mayor, this DA, EVERYONE, and they will either settle for millions or have their ass tanned in court and have to pay out more.

                  All to appease the mob instead of rule of law.

                  It’s like the governance version of firing a coach and then refusing to pay his buyout, and then the coach takes you to court and you still have to pay. Oh hi, Brett Bielema.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  What possibly would be the basis for an acquittal on appeal?

                  The holiday inn you stayed at didn’t cover appellate review.

                  He shot him in the back. If a jury convicts, thats it. There’s no chance of “insufficient evidence.” None. He’ll either plead out or a jury will decide it and that will be that.

                  A venue change would do his defense a whole lot of good. Hard to get tho.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  He didn’t “shoot him the back.”

                  Brooks shot the taser at the cops and the cop shot him while he was turning. It’s literally a split second thing.

                  Firing on a officer with a taser may as well be a firearm as far as precedent is concerned.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  You should check with the medical examiner on that.

                  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/us/atlanta-protests-rayshard-brooks-sunday/index.html

                  Btw: the non-shooter has agreed to testify vs. the shooter.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Again, he fired the taser and then was shot in the back, it was a split second thing.

                  Also may want to double check your crap CNN sourcing, as the AJC says the partner will not testify as his partner did nothing wrong.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  Wrong

                  Even fox news is in on it:

                  https://www.foxnews.com/us/da-in-rayshard-brooks-investigation-says-felony-murder-charge-on-table

                  The DA says Bronson has flipped leading to a bond rec on Bronson of 50k.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Ehhhhhnnnn. Wrong again, Hans. Would you like to try for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change?

                  His lawyer said he hasn’t and won’t.

                  https://www.ajc.com/news/crime–law/breaking-atlanta-cop-charged-with-felony-murder-other-charges-rayshard-brooks-death/h0j3W9OZvMgtSf3eE1i2hM/

                  I do like however how you think bringing up Fox News is your trump card or something. Gets you hot, doesn’t it?

                  Like

                • Derek

                  Its good to know someone believes criminal defense lawyers over district attorneys. I really do mean that.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  One represents the client whose innocence is presumed, the other is an elected official desperate to appease the mob because he’s in a run-off election in a couple of months. The math on this isn’t difficult, then again, I don’t necessarily hate defense attorneys. If an obviously guilty person like OJ gets off, that means the prosecution didn’t do their job. I don’t and won’t blame a defense attorney for a bureaucrat being bad at their job.

                  Some defense attorneys may have the morals of sewer rats, but they all provide one of the most necessary functions in our entire society.

                  Like

                • Derek

                  Its good to know that you’re intermittently capable of reason.

                  Weird situation. I wonder if the guy is getting paid by the pba and the da just stepped on his dick.

                  Not cool.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Yep. How would you ever know I’m a liberal guy who believes in the sanctity of the natural rights enumerated in our Constitution and Bill of Rights? It’s not like I’ve said that on numerous occasions. Also, nice backhanded compliment. 🙄

                  Like

                • I can understand the rage, and I can even understand Atlanta’s desire to move swiftly and decisively, but damn, if I were a cop right now I’d be brushing up my resume and looking for a transfer to the postal service. At least there everyone expects you to shoot the place up every now and then.

                  Like

              • Napoleon BonerFart

                Sky daddy … Edgy!

                Like

    • Greg

      ““Without them, there is no athletic department.”

      If they choose to not be a part of this, I say let them walk. I would definitely support it and not look back….good riddance, don’t let the door hit you in the ass.

      Give me some walk-ons, somebody that wants to be there. I definitely would rather support that…

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Geezus

    I’m stealing the graphic.

    Like

  3. 3rdandGrantham

    Here’s the thing – both Clay and Andy are absolutely right. Clay is right that wearing a t-shirt of a conservative network should not land you in trouble. Indeed, on the surface, it’s absurd, and many on the left are not interested in real debate or diverse opinions whatsoever. Yet Andy is also right regarding basically reading the temperature of the room, understanding your audience, and bring sensitive to the times we are in.

    With all that said, IMO Gundy either has very low EQ or simply doesn’t care (perhaps both), as OAN is a well-known Trump supporting outfit…and Trump, well, we really don’t need to go there and open that book again, do we? He had to know that someone snapping a pic of his shirt and getting it out on social media could only hurt him, not help him. Or, maybe he didn’t? (see: low EQ)

    Overall, with the current climate of the country and the ills we are facing, CFB is of little importance to me right now. Sure, it will be a nice diversion this fall, but I’m concerned about our future (and many of you know I generally have a positive outlook on pretty much everything). On top of the racial strife, our crippling debt will sooner than later lead to a stark decline in living standards here (sans the top 1-2%), with the U.S. losing its grip as the world’s dominant power.

    Liked by 4 people

    • “Many on the left are not interested in real debate.”

      “Wearing the shirt… should not land you in trouble”

      So… Gundy isn’t “in trouble.” Theres no government action against him. He’s not being arrested. He’s not being sued by a private group.

      But part of debate isn’t just an exchange of ideas. Action counts too. If you dislike my stances and I run a business, you have the right to boycott my business.

      Here you’re saying that this black player shouldn’t have the right to criticize his coach or to take action. You’re saying he shouldn’t have the right to respond to Gundys overtly political statement (wearing an OAN shirt).

      Honestly I think you’re the one who doesn’t really want real debate.

      Words and symbols have consequences. If you have kids I’m sure you’ve taught them there’s things they can and can’t say – it’s a fundamental lesson we learn early in life.

      Liked by 1 person

      • 3rdandGrantham

        WTH. You: 1. totally misunderstood/misread my post. 2. Put words in my mouth. 3. Took certain snippets out of context for fit your narrative. Congrats.

        Pray tell where I said Gundy should get criticism? Hell, all I did was impugn him for either not caring and/or his low EQ…yet this is construed as me defending him? I very clearly mentioned being sensitive to the times we are in, etc. I also clearly said “on the surface,” i.e., at first glance, why would anyone get upset over a t-shirt. However, again given the sensitive times we are in, and given OAN’s support of a president who has handled this crisis (among many others) beyond poorly…it’s only fair that Gundy receives backlash, and I have zero issue with anyone who, well, takes issue with Gundy.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Man I’m just quoting your lead in.

          “Clay is right that wearing a t-shirt of a conservative network should not land you in trouble.”

          It’s the second sentence.

          Like

          • 3rdandGrantham

            Right. And I immediately followed that with “indeed, on the surface”…then I went on to rip Gundy, Trump, etc. Again, you took a snippet and construed it into something you wanted to believe so that you could make a point to the contrary.

            This is the problem with social media today (especially twitter, etc.), as people make assumptions to fit their narrative and generally assume the worst in people in attempt to elevate themselves.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Your first mistake was saying Clay Travis was right about something.

              Like

              • I think you are unfairly generalizing your views about your personal experience with Clay Travis and applying them to Clay Travis. Oh wait…I guess that’s okay.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                I don’t always agree with Clay Travis, but the one thing Clay Travis actually does is put out an argument that’s researched and logical. He’s not out there shouting down and cancelling people for disagreeing. This is a guy who, like me, is a liberal who no longer recognizes his “side” and holds them more accountable because he knows they should know better.

                Why is it wrong to admit when he has a point? He has a valid point here. Also, the link you gave that had the Andy Staples quote is from vox.com. Even though they have some things I agree with, they are incredibly biased and have embraced “cancel culture” unlike almost any site out there (mostly because they believe it will protect them when the beast comes looking for someone else to devour and not because they actually believe in cancel culture). In that way I respect Clay Travis far more than any of the sniveling writers at Vox, or people like the newly “woke” Jeff Schultz.

                Like

        • I have a problem with a world where support, albeit indirectly, of a duly elected US president (“given OAN’s support of a president”) subjects you to public censure and possible job loss. Does anybody think the situation would have been any different if the shirt said “Trump 2020” on it ? I don’t, but YMMV, and I think that’s a sad state of affairs in this country.

          What happens when BLM, which is quickly becoming akin to a political party and more than just a slogan (a slogan any reasonable person agrees with) gets a candidate in the White House ? Are we looking at a world where it becomes sacrilege to criticize the State ?

          Liked by 1 person

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        So. Much. This.

        If we could just boycott people with the wrong opinions, the world could be so much more tolerant.

        Like

    • Cojones

      Who would have thought that could be a result of a pandemic?

      Everyone other than you and a few friends had already brought that matter up when Trump and his campaign consulted with an enemy state to influence his illegal “election” that you can’t view at all as a turning point for loss of our country’s prestige.

      Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        Mueller was in on it. So was Schiff.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        Dude… it’s over. There was and is no Russian Collusion.

        You were lied to for three years by people who knew they were lying. That you continue to believe in this hoax is now fully, 100% on you.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Derek

          Assuming there was no collusion, is the fact that the GOP led Senate Intel Committee issued a report finding that Russia favored Trump and acted on it an important fact?

          If that happened and Trump continues to give aid and comfort to Russia by denying that reality, is that not being a knowing asset to a foreign government?

          If you don’t care about any of that why is it wrong for me to call that indifference treason?

          Liked by 1 person

          • Napoleon BonerFart

            Aid and comfort is not going to war over Facebook ads. If Trump had just paid foreigners like Hillary did, he could have avoided the obvious treason that everyone is now guilty of. Smh

            Like

      • Please show evidence.

        Like

  4. josh hancher

    If anyone wants to call this an overreaction by OSU players and/or media, I’d ask – would you where a t-shirt to your work that promoted “OAN, CNN, FNC or Brietbart or Mother Jones…”

    Dude fired a contractor that wore a sooners shirt to work on his house.

    Gundy’s ok at football coaching- better at press conferences, and clueless at most everything else.

    Liked by 3 people

    • tenesseewasnevergreat

      No, I wouldn’t wear a t-shirt to work, but neither did Gundy. I might wear a t-shirt to go fishing like he did, though.

      Liked by 1 person

    • 3rdandGrantham

      Not exactly thrilled to defend Gundy, but he was not at work and was on a private fishing trip when he wore that shirt. Big difference. Even so, as mentioned above it was a dumb move…about as dumb as showing up to a coaches house to do work while rocking a t-shirt of a hated rival.

      Liked by 3 people

      • josh hancher

        Yeah. I’m sure the carpenter knew what he was doing.

        But, the minute you pose for a pic – you’re on the clock.

        I might feel differently- if he were seen and someone took a shot and posted it.

        He posed – and that was his mistake.

        By no means am I saying he should be fired or even reprimanded- just he’s gotta deal with whatever reaction comes from it.

        Like

    • TXBaller

      I wear my CNN “FAKE NEWS” tee shirt often —- Don LaMoan (Lemon) can suck it!!!

      Liked by 2 people

    • stoopnagle

      Does Kirby ever NOT wear a “G” logo?

      Liked by 3 people

      • You should see all the different shirts that Coach O has an LSU logo shoehorned into. That man does not leave the house in anything less than full “Go Tighas!” mode.

        I believe that’s all I have to add to this discussion today and am gonna steer clear the rest of the day. 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

  5. tenesseewasnevergreat

    I couldn’t care less about the power dynamics between college football players and coaches. I do care that Hubbard believes OAN is a racist organization and that many others share that view. Not because I know the folks at OAN, but because I’ve never seen any actual racism in their news and they are one of the few outlets that discuss world and national news from a perspective I agree with. If it is racist now to watch OAN or, God forbid, Fox News, then half the country is now racist regardless of whether they hold any racial animus. In that case, we aren’t talking about racism anymore. Half the country has simply decided that the other half are so deplorable for their political views concerning the proper role of government, the size of the social safety net, and international trade deals that they should no longer be permitted to exist in the country. If this is where we are, then the national political divide may be irreconcilable at this point and I just don’t want to believe that is the case.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I do care that Hubbard believes OAN is a racist organization and that many others share that view.

      “Others” apparently including Mike Gundy now.

      Like

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        Yes, because that hostage video of Mike Gundy performative apologizing sure looked genuine. 🤦🏻‍♂️

        Liked by 1 person

        • Dawgflan

          Gundy didn’t apologize in the video, he only used phrases that spoke to his better “understannding” after meeting with the players. It was Hubbard that apologized for putting it on Twitter instead of talking to his coach man to man.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Sides

          He took a knee for his 5 mil salary. It seems like this is the end for him at OKSt, they are now negotiating the buyout.

          Like

    • spur21

      Sadly it is the case.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Half the country is racist for sure (I’ll define it as having prejudices that affect actual actions). Outright bigots? Prob not.

      Like

      • Paul

        Spence, in my opinion, every single human being on the planet has racist tendencies to some degree. All of us. Always have and always will. It is literally the nature of the beast. The average person tends to gravitate towards others like themselves. Despite this, most of us try to treat one another with respect and dignity. You know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Some, not so much. We are at a place in time where there appears to be a leverage point that can be used effectively. I don’t blame anyone for trying to take advantage of their opportunities. That too is a pretty normal, expected response from most people. Generalizations about human nature aside, anytime you leave the house wearing a shirt promoting a fringe, far right wing conspiracy group you have to know there will be blowback. I believe he just thought he could get away with it.

        Like

        • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

          I think you’re confusing “racist” with “prejudicial.”

          I know the actual meaning of the word “racist” doesn’t apply anymore given how often that label is attached to people who are not in fact racist, but even still, everyone does not have racist tendencies, even deep down. We can however, because of our environment and personal experiences that shape our lives, carry prejudicial beliefs.

          Liked by 1 person

          • I explain this distinction to people all the time, for all the good it does. “Prejudice” is usually the better word, and prejudice is not a one-way street – prejudice can be the result of race, but it can also relate to ideas and different points of view. White people are often the subject of prejudice – sometimes from other white people. My family was all Italian immigrants who immigrated to the US in 1926. But I have encountered people before who, based on the color of my skin, have made assumptions about my ancestors’ participation in slavery, Jim Crow, etc. Those are the same kinds of generalizations based on the way that I look that are called racism when they come from a white person. I don’t have a racist bone in my body, and truly resent the way that word has come to be weaponized. Most people are ignorant or just reckless with their words. People make mistakes. A racist truly believes that he or she is superior to people of other races. I – as a white male growing up in the American south – have known very few people in my life who fit that description. I doubt Gundy is truly a racist, but I don’t know the man’s heart, and that’s the problem. When someone calls someone a racist, they presume to know their heart. Obviously, in some cases, by their fruit you shall know them. But one of my favorite expressions – an extension of Occam’s Razor – regarding judging the intent of another’s actions is “never assume malice, when mere incompetence will suffice.” My gut tells me Gundy is just an idiot.

            Liked by 3 people

            • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

              Context and nuance were the first casualties from people on the Left as authoritarianism began to take hold. I do hold my fellow liberals accountable for this. It’s why I’m so much harder on them than anyone on the right. It’s the same reason why Rand Paul is so much harder on conservatives who embrace the fiscal irresponsibility of their own authoritarian wing.

              Like

            • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

              I too am the son of Italian immigrants who came to this country decades after the Civil War ended and the slaves were freed. We were the first of my family to move South to Atlanta in the 1980’s 15 years after Jim Crow was repealed. WTF do I have to do with slavery or Jim Crow? When my great grandfather immigrated to New York, he encountered stunning bigotry. Italians Need Not Apply was a real thing. Someone want to tell me about my great grandfather’s “privilege” because of the lack of melanin in his skin?

              My father can remember a time when Italians and our Greek cousins, or any Southern European weren’t thought of as “white.” In fact, the true racists still hold that Southern Europeans are “mixed races,” and my Sicilian and Neopolitan ancestors definitely are.

              Seems I can’t win for losing. I’m white to the Far Leftist bigots and I’m not white to the Racist bigots.

              Like

        • “Fringe far right conspiracy group” so, you mean OAN? By way of comparison, can I call CNN and MSNBC fringe far left conspiracy groups? And can people supporting them expect blowback?

          I like how you opened trying to be nice…everybody’s got a Little-good everybody’s got a little bad, and then you sneak that little bit in at the end that says it’s OK to attack someone for a group you don’t agree with.

          Liked by 1 person

      • The half you dont like are the racists, amright?

        Liked by 1 person

    • Look, just because the Republicans believe in complete Federal Government Executive Branch authority (“I have complete authority” -Donald Trump), Massive Deficits ($1 trillion for 2020 before the pandemic hit), and No Free Trade (pulled us out of every trade deal we had) doesn’t mean they are deplorable. Wait…that can’t be right. What exactly do the Republicans stand for at this point?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        And every city set on fire last week because of police brutality have been completely owned by the Democrats, in some cases for decades.

        So given that the brutal police in these cities have been overseen by Democratic mayors and one would assume Democratic police chiefs, does that make the Democratic Party the party of Brutal Policing or Racist Policing?

        Liked by 3 people

        • Which one of those mayors is currently leading the Democratic party again?

          Like

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            LOL. If that was a try at deflection, you need to do better. They lead the Democratic Party in their city. They are the executive.

            Liked by 2 people

            • mwo

              Atlanta had a republican mayor as recently as ’79. 1879.

              Liked by 3 people

            • I’m totally fine calling out mayors of cities that are not performing up to the standard expected of them. Get rid of them. Are you okay accepting that the current leader of the National Republican party has completely flipped on the most fundamental tenant of Conservatism, Federalism?

              Liked by 1 person

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                I’m talking about Trump. I’m talking about the Democrats in power in the cities where there is the worst crime, the worst examples of police brutality, and how that never ever seems to come back on the DNC itself.

                But if you want to know, I don’t like Trump. I also don’t like the GOP.

                Right now, I dislike the DNC and GOP pretty much equally.

                I’m a liberal. Which means in today’s world now that the DNC has torn down the Big Tent and only deals in Total Obedience, I’m a man without a political party.

                Liked by 2 people

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  *I’m NOT talking about Trump.

                  Like

                • I am also a man without a party, so we are not so different you and I. I understand that you are talking about the failures of leaders of various Democratic cities, and I agree with you 100%. My initial comment was in response to OP discussing overarching party political views. I brought up Trump’s actions on the specific subjects mentioned in OP’s post. Trump is the leader of the Republican Party, and I felt it was relevant to point out that he has actively undermined the traditional Conservative stance on the issues mentioned by OP (“proper role of government, the size of the social safety net, and international trade deals”). You were the first to switch subjects to local government from overarching political beliefs.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Fair point. Counterpoint is that Trump has absolutely nothing to do with entrenched terrible policing and police brutality (not police racism) in cities controlled by the DNC for decades, and yet somehow is getting blamed?

                  Anyone else feeling like they’re taking crazy pills?

                  Liked by 4 people

                • I am now likewise a political agnostic. I used to mock such a person as not having the courage of their convictions. Now I realize it’s just the result of being a thoughtful person who recognizes there are no simple solutions, and wishing that people could reasonably disagree without dismissing the other side as evil or corrupt. That’s why I fully support the Play Pen, and I admire the fact that most everyone here can disagree and walk away friends. Even Derek and Coach Irvin Meyers, lol.

                  My two cents is that Trump has really painted people with honest and contemplative conservative views into a corner. I never asked to be dragged into an “us vs. them” battle (but maybe we were already in one and I’m the naive one). I think conservatives and progressives need each other. They create the tension that keeps the country from tilting too far in one direction or the other. Progress is good. Progress that happens too fast, or as a reaction to an emotionally-charged political climate often carries unintended consequences. In this case, I fear that the unintended consequences may harm the very communities the political action was intended to protect. And I just hope that the fringe elements on both sides recognize that the media on both sides has recognized that outrage is what sells. I encourage everyone on either side of the spectrum to actually listen to what the other side has to say. Keep an open mind. I listen to NPR every day. As someone with a right-of-center bent, sometimes I hear things I disagree with vehemently. But I also hear a lot of things that make me hold my own beliefs up to the light and admit when I had something all wrong. We basically want the same things. We were all horrified by what happened to George Floyd. We can disagree about the causes and the cures without attacking each others motives or dismissing alternative viewpoints as “stupid” or “evil.”

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  My disagreement with you here is conflating conservatives and progressives, and thus giving the progressives a normalcy they don’t deserve. The word you’re looking for is “liberals.” Progressives are not liberals, but far too many liberals have given over their souls to progressive movements.

                  Progressives are extremist authoritarians, and these Neo Progressives definitely are, in the same vein as the Far Right. They are the Far Left.

                  Conservatives and liberals need each other. No one needs progressives in the same way we didn’t need social conservatives, because of exactly what we see now: The “beast” needs to constantly be fed. If it’s not fed by actual issues, issues will be created for it to feed upon.

                  It’s how actual issues of police brutality became an issue about “racism” even though every reliable data point and statistic says police brutality has nothing to do with race and effects everyone.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • That’s a fair point. I have just tended to steer clear of the term “liberal” because, unfortunately, the term has become such a pejorative in certain circles – on the right – and loaded with baggage that I do not usually intend. This is yet another way our language has been hijacked by the fringe. The founding fathers were all liberals in the classical sense (in word, if not always deed, but the words won out over the deeds), and thank goodness they were.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  The Founders definitely were incredibly liberal men, especially in the context of their Era.

                  Like

                • Like you, I save my sharpest criticism for those with whom I have historically aligned myself. I don’t recognize the current GOP. But I loved the USSC’s opinion, out earlier this week, regarding LGTBQ rights. I’m hoping that’s the death knell for the government’s intrusion into the bedroom, which no intellectually consistent conservative should have ever been in the favor of in the first place.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Liberals and conservatives have historically had little to separate them, and have many overlapping beliefs, such as a belief in individual rights. The differences always come when people with more extreme beliefs come to power in the difference parties. We saw it in the 1990’s and 2000’s when the social conservatives took control of the GOP. They were as guilty for big government intrusion into people’s individual lives as any big government Democrat like Michael Dukakis or Jerry Brown. George W. didn’t meet a social program he didn’t want to spend taxpayer money on, but he stupidly lowered taxes while still supporting social programs. Then Obama was more akin to W. than anyone on the Left would ever want to admit. He raised taxes, but not enough to cover the deficit. He spent more on social programs. He used the NSA and FBI to illegally spy on the American people and journalists he didn’t like. He increased drone bombings to unheard of levels. He bailed out big “evil” corporations.

                  At the end of the day, we need more John Kennedys and Ronald Reagans as public servants, and less AOCs, Bernies, or Warrens ,or Steve Kings and Ted Cruzes.

                  We need liberals and conservatives of principle to take back control. Where have the Joe Liebermans and John McCains gone?

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  The gop primary voter stopped voting for them obviously.

                  The gop ran about a dozen of those guys in 2016. The top two finishers were not of that sort. They were rw nuts.

                  Meanwhile, the dems nominated their 12th moderate in a row.

                  Like

        • WIll (the other one)

          Atlanta had a single Wendy’s go up in flames, but sure “cities are on fire” — I’d try and tell you that’s beyond exaggeration, but if more suburbanites are scared of visiting, maybe the average new townhome cost will slide down from $750,000. So yeah, it’s crime-infested constantly on fire and cops are burned in effigy daily – stay away!

          Liked by 1 person

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            Buddy, are you being serious, because the people who actually live in Minneapolis, Portland, and Seattle would like a word with you.

            Liked by 2 people

          • Pirate

            I mean like yea all that happened is they burned down one restaurant. I mean come on . What if it was your restaurant? What if it was your house ? It’s just one house ? I would laugh but it’s all to common and sad

            Liked by 3 people

            • Derek

              What if you were George Floyd?

              We fought a war to rid ourselves of a regime that was choking us with taxes, but in the face of being choked to death, the only recourse is to check with you to see if it conforms to your sensibilities?

              I say fuck that. Its called “creating economic incentives through community action.”

              You don’t want the burdened to rise up and start burning shit down? Then stop supporting a system that treats some people like they’re less than human. It will work.

              Like

              • Pirate

                Derrick again with the straw man. I believe George Floyd was murdered . I was speaking about someone being so flippant as saying well they only burned down one Wendy’s. In ATLANTA. How can America be systematically racist when Obama was elected twice in a country that is 75 % white. By the way who was the last Kkk member known to serve in the US senate ? Before y’all google ( if it is not taken down) it’s Robert Byrd (D) WV . See there Derrick that is your party. The problem with pointing a finger at someone else is u got three pointing back at you. The KKK was the militant wing of the Democratic Party He left the Senate about 10 years ago. But that is so 2010. Never heard you mention that ever but that just doesn’t fit the narrative. You throw more hanging curve balls than anyone if ever seen Derrick

                Like

          • 360 buildings in MN. Min cost $55M

            Liked by 2 people

      • “No free trade” oh man, you work for china?

        Can we do what about on deficits?

        Like

  6. josh hancher

    And if someone wants to say “he’s not at work” – he let someone post a picture- he’s on the job at that point promoting and reppining OSU

    Like

    • 3rdandGrantham

      You know what – you are absolutely right. Gundy is a public figure and certainly has a clause in his contract about his public behavior, whether he’s actually working or not. Now, you may think this is unfair, but he is very handsomely compensated partly due to this.

      I know a local NBC TV anchor here, and you’d be amazed the various clauses that are in their contract about their public behavior whether on the job or not. For ex, if they, say, attend a Capitals or Nationals game during their free/personal time and throw back one too many drinks, that is cause for immediate termination.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Argondawg

    I can’t help but feel we are in a moral panic not based on the actual statistics and data but based on snippets of video whose desire is to inflame us. Look, Racism is real. Police brutality is real. That Minneapolis cop committed murder for sure but the crime rates and incarceration rates have been going down for decades. things are actually getting better across the board on just about every metric that we can use to judge these things. Not just a little bit better but leaps and bounds ahead of where we were 20 years ago.The inequity between races is ridiculous but we need to have real and honest discussions about how to alleviate that. I just don’t know if in the current climate anyone can have those discussions. It feels like an almost religious movement. I would like to see it evolve into genuine good faith conversations between people of good will. Right now everything seems performative. I hope it turns into real solutions about how to elevate people. It needs to move into a stage that has real goals or it will die on the vine like so many other times in the past.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Normaltown Mike

      “Right now everything seems performative”

      Yes +100. Politicians, DJT obviously, but also nobodies in the House & Senate, appear most interested in giving some dank smackdown to an empty chamber at 11:00 pm or on some news show on Fox/CNN/MSNBC so that they can make an advertisement that makes them seem like a badass. And for what? So they build a “brand” that will lead to donations from non-constituents and maybe a lucrative career in media later?

      Sadly, I think our idiot politicians and absurdists political discourse is a symptom, not a cause of our sick civil society.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Dawgflan

        I agree that the current state of politics is a symptom. Other symptoms include fundamentalist religion, reality tv, social media, video games, junk food, sports, etc.

        We can’t deal with how difficult, unjust, fractured, messy, and complex the world is, and our seeming powerlessness within it. Our brains are wired to make decisions quickly, and it doesn’t like conflicting, unorganized, and difficult to process information. And yet, as the hero in our own life story, we believe that we are able to easily and quickly make the “right” decision, have the correct perspective, and have all the information that we need.

        And so, to reassure ourselves, we seek (in varying degrees) the “comfort” of false certainties, false narratives, fake news, fake points scored in fake worlds, trashy people & celebrities, empty calories, and picking arbitrary sides in sporting contests. And we fall for the “convenience” of cheering/booing, subscribing/canceling, saving/judging, loving/hating, supporting/vilifying, liking/disliking, picking red v. blue, cats v. dogs (or Dawgs), etc. It’s so much easier than actually risking anything.

        As a culture, we’re overdosing on false safety, and false choices, false conveniences. We can’t accept the risk and difficulties that come with the world as it is, so we escape to the world we wish it to be.

        Liked by 4 people

    • sniffer

      The inequity between races is ridiculous
      The inequity between economic strata is growing. Rich getting richer and poor remaining poor. I’m not arguing against your statement, I’m agreeing. But it’s not simply a racial separation.

      I just don’t know if in the current climate anyone can have those discussions
      Once again, I agree. It seems to me, the institutional trust one has determines your position. Progressives trust government and look there for solutions. Conservatives tend to look to faith-base institutions for answers. Different world views. I’m not one who believes any government is capable of solving societal ills. I also understand that church/synagogue/mosque leadership has let us down. My last point will be this. Global Corruption is rampant. Regardless of one’s world view, who can we trust anymore? I think a day of reckoning is coming. I just don’t know what it will look like.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Argondawg

        I agree sniffer. The point is that we have conversations or violence. There is nothing else. We better get to having substantive conversations then.

        Also to your point about the economic strata. I think that is in large part due to the changing nature of the jobs we do. There is a huge amount of emphasis being put on the super smart folks who can innovate and build the next mouse trap. The days of an agriculture based or a manufacturing based economy are giving way to the technology base economy. The disparity is coming from those who have electronic aptitude, are very creative and high IQs. That is only going to grow. If you have to pick between very smart and very conscientious….you have a better shot with very smart at least that is what the literature has to say. Interesting times for sure.

        Like

      • This is not discussed enough. These issues adhere much more closely along economic and class lines, rather than race, whether you’re talking about income, education, out-of-wedlock births, absentee fathers, divorce rates, crime, incarceration, addiction, etc. Racism is real and it is ugly. But there a places in this country that deal with the same social problems that are homogeneously white. I’m looking at you, West Virginia (no offense meant to anyone from that beautiful state; one of my best friends in the world is from WV and we talk about these things).

        Liked by 1 person

        • Class warfare is much much more true and real then systematic racism.

          Poor and undereducated whites and blacks have much more in common then I think we realize or discuss.

          Like

      • If that’s the definition of liberal versus conservative then truly I am neither.

        I enjoy reading a comment like this.. that gave me a different look and didn’t involve accusing and name calling

        Like

    • Cojones

      That starts at the top. How many times has this president invoked the outrageous behavior and death that.resulted in Charlotte and other places and proclaimed it “normal”?

      Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        The first step in solving a problem is figuring out which Republican to blame.

        Liked by 2 people

        • A single tear runs down the heavily-lined face of Alex P. Keaton. He quietly places his now-rusted metal Richard Nixon lunchbox into his storage shed, the one with vintage Barry Goldwater campaign signs and every book William F. Buckley ever wrote. He looks at his full-size bust of Ronald Reagan, and, unable to maintain eye-contact with the statue’s fixed gaze, pulls the door shut shut.

          Like

      • So if somebody does something badd you can just blame the president? That must be really awesome.

        Tell you what I’ll bite. I would like a specific white paper with glossy color photos and a flow chart of how something from the president directly impacts some random dude that commits a crime. I need to know how the person’s brain got activated and rewired to do something.

        I need to know the specific speech or comments from the president that activated the agent. I need to know scientifically how that activation occurs

        Like

    • I’ve seen people ask a legit honest question, but bc it appeared to lean a different way, rather than debate, it was cancel culture.

      The mob doesn’t want to debate. The mob doesn’t want different points of view put out. The mob wants to shout down everything and anything that doesn’t conform to their tribalism. Because what you’re seeing and discussing is tribalism. It allows for no grace and no nuance.

      It’s really fundamentally important to understand that it may be your tribe and you agree with them, until they’ve eliminated everybody else, and then they come and look for you. Tribalism is about authoritarianism. It is not about your rights and your freedoms.

      In this very thread people have said that if you say or do something that is considered toxic you should be shouted down. Cancelled. Attacked.

      Our country is it war with tribalism and the media has been weaponized hugely on one side to support that mob. It’s so badd that the polls for president are usually vastly incorrect because people that would vote one way are scared to publicly do or say anything. So they save it for the ballot Box. Fear of the mob.

      And when you bend the knee to the mob to get protection, you can guarantee that they wont. They have now become your master and they don’t care about you. Heck it’s in every single apocalyptic scifi show movie book ever.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Granthams replacement

    Today’s media promotes a only one view is correct. Any other views are wrong and individuals with that view should be punished. It would be nice if a true news outlet would be created that reported all the facts without the editorial leans.

    Gundy and Hubbard using the moment to say both made selfish mistakes was refreshing.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Derek

      OAN employs Kristian Brunovich Rouz.

      Who is a russian who also happens to be employed by Sputnik, a Russian State sponsored media outlet.

      Russian agitprop t-shirts are just another viewpoint, right?

      Liked by 1 person

      • spur21

        And CNN and MSNBC are run by far left folks that get their talking points directly from the DNC so what is your point Derrick?
        You suspect you like and believe everything put on the air by liberal media simply because they hate Trump and you do too. It has zero to do with truth.
        I’m not going to claim Trump is faultless but I truly believe he has the best interest of America in his heart. He has – in spite of the constant attacks from the left – done more for minorities than any POTUS in my lifetime. Is he brash and totally unpolished – absolutely but he is the only POTUS that sees and speaks of the dangers we face from China.

        Liked by 2 people

        • spur21

          I suspect not you suspect.

          Like

          • “He has – in spite of the constant attacks from the left – done more for minorities than any POTUS in my lifetime. ” You are serious aren’t you? You really believe that?

            Like

            • spur21

              It must be true – I saw it on the internet – I read about it on one of those far right propaganda websites.
              Also read how democrats continue to keep black folks down by increasing their dependency on the government and blocking school choice and pushing the victim narrative among many other truths that liberal media refuses to address.

              Like

        • Derek

          You can’t be pro-Russia and Pro-America at the same time.

          I’ll assume you are 3. Otherwise, yes, cages and family separation are the best things that ever happened to “minorities.”

          Many minorities are happy to know that they come from shithole countries and that people with the “best interest of America” prefer Norwegians.

          If you can’t see that we needed and lacked leadership through covid and george floyd and that the absence of it in both situations have cost lives, well you’re just blind.

          Liked by 1 person

          • spur21

            “I’ll assume you are 3. Otherwise, yes, cages and family separation are the best things that ever happened to “minorities.””

            Why are you bringing up what the Obama administration did?

            TDS is far worse than Covid – it stops you from seeking truth and seeing what is really happening.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Napoleon BonerFart

              Fake news, pal. Saint Obama got the peace prize for some stuff. Trump is a Nazi. QED

              If you think that open borders are a bad thing and that a country can’t afford to pay the world’s refugees welfare, that makes you a Nazi. Look it up.

              Like

      • Napoleon BonerFart

        We found the Russian link! It’s everywhere!
        #Traitors

        Like

      • I wish yall hated china and Iran as much as you hate russia.

        Like

    • mddawg

      I agree with the sentiment regarding a “true news outlet”, but it seems that people can barely agree on which facts are facts, so I’m not sure how we get there.

      Like

  9. Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

    It’s a false choice. They’re both right. Players have power, and they’re acting like children throwing a temper tantrum in using that power.

    This idea that BLM is above reproach and cannot be disagreed with, considering they are a political movement and much of its platform is not simply “Black Lives Matter” (defunding the police, socialism, and ending the nuclear family are just some of the dangerously radical views they espouse) is anti-American. The very fact that they’re a political movement leaves them open to honest disagreement. However, this new Left demands Total Obedience, and this is why we’re in the position we’re in.

    I didn’t know what OAN was until the other day. It doesn’t sound like my cup of tea. Even if a lot of people who have or could have betrayed the Clintons have died under mysterious circumstances, I’m not one to buy into conspiracy theories. Then again, I never bought into Russia Collusion either, and we had CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, Time, Newsweek, The Daily Beast, Slate, Salon, and so many other papers and sites pushing those lies for three years. Funny how that conspiracy theory doesn’t get much play anymore. We certainly heard it enough around here, but again, not lately.

    OAN or CNN, I honestly don’t see the difference. Fake news is fake news, does it matter whose “side” it comes from, honestly? I don’t think so.

    I wonder what Chubba Hubbard would think? Would he throw a temper tantrum like a child and force his coach to bend the knee if Gundy wore a CNN shirt? No, he wouldn’t. That makes him a hypocrite (big surprise).

    Clay Travis’s point is just because you have this power doesn’t mean you use that power, especially in this way because of the hypocrisy. Some of these players may have the equivalent of h-bombs in their ability to make their coaches who disagree with them kneel to BLM or any other cause, but you know what happens when people start using h-bombs? They all die.

    Also to Clay’s point, Chubba Hubbard CHOSE to play CFB in Trump Country. OK is one of the most supportive states for Trump. Why did he go there? Because the coach he just made performative apologize like a puppet was the only coach at a P5 program to give him the opportunity to play. No one else wanted Chubba Hubbard. Mike Gundy did. Shouldn’t that matter to Chubba more than if they disagree politically, which they obviously do? Clay says yes. I happen to agree with him there.

    We stand on a precipice in our country. People are being fired from Universities and corporations for having the temerity to disagree with BLM or Leftist points of view. BLM want some good things, but they also want some insane things and people anywhere should have the ability to criticize them without fear of reprisal.

    What happened to, “I will defend to the death your right to disagree with me,” that was once the cornerstone of liberal thought? What happened to the liberals? They have been replaced with venal children who cannot stand for disagreement regardless of fact, statistic, or reality. We have truly entered into an era of feelings over facts. God help us all.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Because the coach he just made performative apologize like a puppet was the only coach at a P5 program to give him the opportunity to play. No one else wanted Chubba Hubbard.

      Um… nah.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        Okay, I’m wrong about that. I was going off of what I remembered from that Athletic article last season, but because I let me subscription lapse because of their ridiculous NBA-China coverage, I could go back to check it.

        The main thrust of my point remains: He chose to play in Trump Country. It sounds like if he doesn’t want to play for or around people who like Trump, he should’ve picked Oregon.

        Like

        • Derek

          Lets hope your level of dumb doesn’t reach the recruits.

          I’m very certain that I don’t want to play with a roster of Trump supporters.

          In fact, if you had a recruiting clearinghouse question:

          Did your parents vote for Hillary or Trump, which subset would you rather suit up for UGA?

          Like

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

            The point is Derek… WHO CARES?

            You wouldn’t want to play with teammates who voted for Trump even if they leads you to a National Title?

            WTF is wrong with you?

            Are you only going to hire people who are anti-Trump? Are you only going to dine in restaurants where the owners are anti-Trump?

            Dude, at some point, this bullshit has to end. If you can’t be around people who think differently than you, then YOU are the problem.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Derek

              You said the recruits should be aware of whether they are signing up to play in trump country and act/expect accordingly.

              Were you wrong again?

              Like

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                I’m saying if this is an issue for them, then no, they should not choose to play in Trump country.

                Have the courage of your convictions or maybe, finally realize like most adults do, that it’s okay when others have different opinions from you, even if they’re wildly different and come in direct conflict with yours.

                You tend to be both a very literal and a wildly obtuse person, Derek. It’s not one of your best qualities.

                Like

                • Why do I find myself warning you more than any other commenter lately?

                  Disagree with his comments, fine, but lay off the psychoanalysis, because I know where that’s headed, based on past performance.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  I apologize. I was responding emotionally to being called dumb. I’ll try to keep it logical and rational.

                  Like

                • Forget logical and rational, as long as you don’t make it personal. 😉

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Normaltown Mike

                  It’s funny, Coach, how you’ve been targeted as beyond the pale lately, though somehow Derek never is.

                  It’s almost like the cartoon above…having the “wrong” opinion gets you in trouble here. To be clear, I enjoy all the wrong opinions and the posters here, with the exception of Bullllldawg/Thomas Brown, who ruined many a thread years ago.

                  Before you get banned, can you share your twitter handle so I can follow?

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Oh, FFS, it’s the comment police.

                  DEREK, QUIT INSULTING PEOPLE BEFORE I SEND YOU TO TIME OUT!!!!

                  Have a nice day, Mike. By the way, people don’t get punished for having the “wrong” opinion here, something I assume you have some expertise in identifying. They do get punished for behavior, like sockpuppetry, espousing neo-Nazi beliefs, etc. Generally, don’t run afoul of what few house rules there are, and you’ve got nothing to worry about.

                  Like

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Thanks Mike, but I don’t take offense. We’re all here at the Senator’s pleasure, and I understand where he’s coming from especially because I try to remain on the point and reasonable as much as I can, trying to avoid becoming emotional in my responses. He’s right, I didn’t do that, and began to turn it personal. I don’t know Derek, or anyone here, enough to allow them control over my emotions. Or at least I shouldn’t.

                  My twitter handle is HistoryofMatt. I’m taking a twitter break right now, though. Without sports, twitter has become a feedback loop of hate. That’s not why I’m there. I’m there for sports. So with no sports, there’s not much reason for me to be there. I’ll get back on when football season starts. Or baseball season. Whichever comes first.

                  And your twitter handle is?

                  Like

                • Let me say this again, for all. Corch has this right. You are all here at the pleasure of the blog. I allow for what I think is a freewheeling comments section, because I like an exchange of ideas. People being who they are, sometimes things go a little too far and the exchanges are no longer interesting, but become irritating.

                  In case some of you haven’t noticed, it’s a PITA to monitor the comments here. I do the best I can. If that’s not good enough for some of y’all, let me know what you think could be better. The other option for the perennially offended would be to shut down comments entirely, but that’s a bridge too far for me.

                  Instead of complaining about who gets slapped and who doesn’t, feel free to pitch in and politely point out to someone who’s crossed a line what they’ve done. I won’t mind.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  I’ve gotten the wrath of the host plenty of times.

                  Like

                • Normaltown Mike

                  Hey Coach, I’m “THEPhilPacker”…it’s a Brady Brunch reference FWIW.

                  I too, take breaks from twitter. It’s FAAAAR worse than any thread here!

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Doyle Hargraves

                  Senator you’re a smart man, how do you not lose all hope reading some of this stuff?

                  Like

                • I have to tell you that this is one of my favorite comments of all time.

                  Like

          • Normaltown Mike

            I’ve got bad news Derek…when you attend a game at Sanford stadium, you’re cheering along with a bunch of Trump supporters.

            It’s time for you to find a new team (lest your friends in the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest deny you entry).

            I hear Oberlin is pretty good…

            Liked by 1 person

          • Argondawg

            How about you debate the point and not resort to calling folks dumb. I know that is your maturity level and that this is how you circumvent the spirit of the new rules but it always diminishes your point and your desire is just to inflame folks on a personal level. We share a lot of the same ideas and beliefs but your delivery system could use some serious adjustment

            Liked by 3 people

          • You’re so tribal you literally said you dont want to play with people that disagree with you.

            This is what’s wrong, right here. You said it without even knowing it.

            Like

            • Derek

              You concluded that without using any common sense at all.

              If we could have 22 Herschel Walkers with exactly the same views on Trump, I’d take it.

              My point was about statistics, not about giving one fuck about where any of the players stand politically.

              Based on the demographics of the team alone, chances are trump isn’t a popular figure in that locker room or any other for that matter.

              Like

              • And as usual, you start with an insult. I an plenty smart, and plenty of common sense. But you just can’t help yourself. You insult people on the Internet.

                By the way Hershel Walker said that trump wasnt a racist. So since you support Herschel Walker and Herschel Walker said that , I now will take an assumption that you believe Donald Trump is not a racist

                Like

                • Derek

                  You just trample all over your assertions about yourself don’t you?

                  Whether Trump is a racist isn’t that important to me. He knows his supporters are and he caters to them. Racists vote trump. Why are all those confederate flags at trump rallies?

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek you and I could be talking about a fast ball vs a curveball and all the sudden you would bring a soccer ball into the discussion as proof that you were right about the fastball. You build more straw man than theres straw to boot.

                  And you’ve always got to throw in some kind of put down or insult or curse word. You must be a very miserable human being. And frankly I’ve learned today just a pity you and feel sorry for you.

                  I’ll go back to not engage in you anymore. I know the difference between an intellectual discussion of opposing views versus being drug in the mud with the pigs

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Derek

                  I

                  Don’t

                  Care.

                  So sorry to disturb the circle jerk bubble you prefer.

                  (Not really.)

                  Like

                • We’ve made it through the day, discussing a very divisive topic, in this forum the Senator provides – and with a light touch, in terms of moderating. We who have been at it all day are clearly all intelligent. We have vented, we have disagreed, we have apologized, we have hopefully all learned new things. At this point can we put a pin in it, respect this place, and each other, and resume our arguments about the one thing we ALL have in common, until next week? I have learned a lot from Derek and Corch and Chuckdawg, and all the rest. Let’s just ease off the gas and remember that we all have a common enemy. And that enemy is the Florida Gators. Let’s take a six-day break to focus on the one thing that unites us.

                  I really enjoy this forum and am grateful to the Senator for providing it. And giving us all really, really long leashes.

                  Go. Fawking. Dawgs.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

                  Every second of every day… #FTMF!!!

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  Derek has no problem speaking for the poor, dumb, minorities who need his voice. That’s just the kind of guy he is.

                  He also loves his copypasta link about all you idiot proles who speak with southern accents. It’s very amusing to Don Lemon.

                  Like

                • Napoleon BonerFart

                  It’s certainly not because some people believe in Federalism and a limited general government. Nope. The flag is racist because we leftists have declared it so. Repeatedly. Ha ha

                  What did the most evil people in history (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Trump) have on common? They oversaw decentralized governments with limited power. That’s why we woke leftists are advocating for the good kind of authoritarianism. The kind that keeps people alive, but poor. The kind that doesn’t allow thoughtcrime.

                  Like

    • Derek

      So you’re saying the Hubbard’s tweet was about journalistic integrity?

      Really? Because that’s just painfully dumb.

      Btw: Just because I don’t talk about the JFK assassination on a daily basis doesn’t mean there weren’t at least 2 shooters.

      Just because “Russia if you’re listening” and “I love it” wasn’t proved to be a conspiracy doesn’t mean that they weren’t acting in concert. They were. This is a concern among non-traitors.

      Like

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

        When Dale Gribble figured out that there was only one shooter, that pretty much did in the JFK Conspiracy Theories.

        No, Seth Rich wasn’t killed.

        No, there was not Russia “Collusion.”

        Time to hang up the tin foil hat, Derek.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Derek

          A full metal jacket bullet doesn’t explode on impact. The bullets fired from the book depository were of that type, hence the pristine “magic bullet.” The one that struck JFK’s head exploded, fragmented, into dozens of pieces. That bullet wasn’t fired from the Italian bolt action rifle and no corresponding shells were recovered in the snipers nest.

          Its pretty simple ballistics actually. At least two shooters.

          Like

          • Smoky Joe Would

            Watch Unsolved History “Beyond the Magic Bullet” Single bullet theory is plausible if not favorable.

            Like

            • Derek

              Single bullet makes sense and underscores my point. The so-called magic bullet hit a whole lot of bone and stayed perfectly intact.

              The bullet that hit JFK’s head broke apart, exploded really. Those two bullets are NOT the same.

              All three cartridges found in the book depository matched the full metal jacket bullet. None matched a fragmenting bullet.

              The “magic bullet” is magic in one way. It distracted everyone from looking at the fragmented bullet. A truly amazing “sleight of hand.”

              Like

          • spur21

            Derrick is it possible that Trump was the second shooter – after all he is responsible for everything bad.
            As a side note do you know who and why the FMJ bullet was designed?

            Liked by 1 person

            • Derek

              Given what he said about Ted Cruz’s dad’s involvement maybe he has some first hand knowledge.

              A lot of people are saying that trump killed Scarborough’s intern.

              And that 75 year old plant in Buffalo brain damaged himself.

              Unsupported conspiracy theories are so MAGAt!

              Liked by 1 person

          • tenesseewasnevergreat

            Can we cancel Derek for espousing a conspiracy theory?

            Liked by 1 person

          • Pirate

            Derek I totally agree with you on this. I know we are on different sides of almost everything at least politically. But what you say is I believe indisputable. Lighting strikes

            Like

    • spur21

      Wow I don’t always agree with your comments Irvin but that one is SPOT ON.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Hogbody Spradlin

    Just my humble opinion, but: “Something is Wrong on the Internet” should be “Somebody Said Something I Don’t Like on the Internet.

    Like

  11. Yurdle

    Randall Munroe for president.

    Like

  12. Hunkered Dawg

    This has probably been said in some form or fashion but it’s difficult to see people play victim in these scenarios.

    Chuba Hubbard didn’t take a picture of some random yokel at a Stillwater Walmart and vilify him/her for wearing an OAN shirt. He saw his own head coach, a man significantly responsible for his well-being and NFL prospects, wear a shirt that represents a network that is blindly pro-Trump.

    I don’t think this situation is about whether or not OAN is reputable enough to support them with a t-shirt. The issue is that Gundy either ignored or didn’t even recognize the open sore that being seen in that shirt would be prodding.What does that say about his ability to protect his largely black team from racial injustice on campus, in the AA, or in the community? How can his players trust his words (which have almost certainly been highly supportive of their fight against injustice) if he wears that shirt that openly mocks the protests?

    Gundy’s ignorance of the situations is what is so awful and what players reacted to. I’m sure if he got a picture taken in that shirt last summer, there would have certainly been some eye rolls, but nothing like what we saw a few days ago.

    Like

  13. Not a Jacobin

    Mr. Georgia Way himself and coach Kirby on bended knee, foot washing bowling in hand. Both resplendent, draped with Kente cloth scarves. Does this bring the number one recruiting class of the year? Coach of the year. Best collge A.D.? Can you make the cover of time magazine? Nobel Peace Prize?
    I’m puzzled over the Kente cloth scarves in tribute to African Americans. Apparently, Pelosi did not know that the kente cloth scarf originated with the Ashanti tribe in West Africa. Now present day Ghana and Côte d’Ivoire. The Ashanti tribe was the largest slave trader in Africa . If we must destroy everything that has the slightest tinge of being a symbol of slavery in America including America herself, how can we promote scarves from the Ashanti tribe?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

      Because hypocrisy knows no bounds. DIdn’t you know America invented slavery. Tim Kaine said so.

      The lack of historical knowledge and perspective in our country today is staggering. I went to Georgia to become a teacher, to get two degrees, one in Social Science Education and one in History. I left Georgia with a History degree that I use in a pretty dang successful career in IT Sales. Why? Because “Social Science” or Social Studies, which long ago took over history, economics, and civics in American education, had become so politicized that students were not learning anything. They don’t learn about historical context. They don’t learn why or how things happened, they only learn the who, what, when, and where.

      The why and the how are CRUCIAL to knowing history. We are a nation of contextless morons. This is why little of what has happened the last decade has surprised me, even though I remain horrified.

      Liked by 2 people

  14. Timphd

    I normally stay away from commenting on the Play Pen. I am too middle of the road to participate in what generally becomes an “us versus them” back and forth. Today is not much different, but I think some are missing the point. This is not about Gundy’s right to wear whatever t-shirt he chooses. It is about the tone deafness of the coach, who in this day and time, with protests in the streets, not realizing that repping a shirt for an organization which has called the BLM movement a “farce” and generally denigrated anyone who engages in protests might offend a black player on his team. This is not about Trump versus CNN or any other news organization. It is about a young black man’s emotional response to his own coach basically telling him the movement to push for racial justice is ridiculous. Gundy may believe that to be true or not, but he should have had the knowledge that young black men would react negatively. If he is that unaware of how it would be taken, that is on him, not on Chuba Hubbard.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. BuffaloSpringfield

    For what it’s Worth:
    I still don’t know, care what OAN is. I wouldn’t wear a CNN, Fox, MSNBC, NYT t-shirt fishin’. I’d probably wear a camo one and that’s gotta make 75% of the folks in the room mad.

    Like

    • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

      Why would they be mad? If you’re wearing a camo shirt, they wouldn’t be able to see you. 😉

      Like

  16. I honestly think Gundy is just ignorant. That t-shirt probably means nothing more in Stillwater than a vintage Coca-cola shirt would mean in Atlanta. It certainly doesn’t look like he was intending to make a statement. If he had had any idea the picture would be circulated a widely as it was, I assume he would have take some steps to make sure the picture was a little more flattering.

    Everything I read about OAN anyway suggests that their news division is pretty straight-foward, but their editorial division veers hard to the right. That makes them essentially a mirror image of most major newspapers. And anyone who disagrees should consider that since 1884 the NYT has endorsed the Democratic candidate for president 26 times and the Republican 6 times. The last time the NYT endorsed a Republican was Eisenhower in 1956. So I don’t really think the uproar over a t-shirt is warranted, but I still think Gundy is an idiot. To me the more telling thing is that his players did not go to bat for him the way Dabo’s did.

    Liked by 2 people

  17. stoopnagle

    Gundy is dumb.

    Like

  18. PTC DAWG

    People are too damn touchy these days…disagreeing comments/opinions are not welcome..stopping looters is not even politically correct..makes me want to tune out.

    Like

  19. McNease

    They can both be right.

    I’m betting Hubbard has never watched a minute of OAN and has only heard about it’s unacceptability from others. Gundy could have made a deal where Hubbard agrees to watch a few hours to educate himself.

    Like

  20. ASEF

    The issue with OAN is this:

    They play footsie with some pretty sick white supremacy conspiracy bullshit.

    Like: BLM is secretly controlled by Sinister Jewish Dude (Soros). Part of Sinister Jewish Dude’s Plot to Destroy America. Content that starts in some very dark recesses of Internet chat rooms and percolates onto their platform.

    That kind of thing is straight out of some of history’s darkest moments. The pogroms in Europe were always driven by these sorts of word-of-mouth conspiracy fantasies making their way into the media at the time.

    If Gundy is wearing a Wall Street Journal T-Shirt or even a Fox News t-shirt, I doubt Hubbard responds. OAN? It’s working at an entirely different level. Yeah, their political orientation is conservative, but that’s not the problem with them. The problem is their willingness to push batshit crazy conspiracy nonsense that consigns BLM and really all civil rights activism to stupid pawns in the hands of Sinister Jewish Dude. That’s where they differentiate themselves in the consumer media buffet. People lumping OAN in with other “conservative media” seem to be missing that distinction.

    And if that’s your perspective on OAN, seeing your coach wearing an OAN shirt isn’t that far off from wearing a John Birch T-shirt.

    This Forbes article focuses on some of the issues.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2020/06/16/if-mike-gundy-loves-oan-then-chuba-hubbard-is-right-to-think-about-boycotting-oklahoma-state/#2b86a6ed601f

    Liked by 2 people

    • McNease

      What’s wrong with giving money to BLM? Tons of businesses have given them money. Why is the idea that Soros May have given them money too “sinister” and “batshit crazy?”

      Like

      • ASEF

        Nothing is wrong with giving money to BLM.

        Suggesting that such a donation ruins BLM’s credibility because they’re being secretly controlled by Sinister Jewish Dude Who Wants to Destroy America is the problem.

        There’s a reason Soros regularly gets death threats. Someone tried to send him a package bomb. Because he is constantly accused of being the mastermind behind (insert problem and/or protests here).

        Example: Some GOP County Chair people in Texas (large counties, like San Antonio’s) were blaming Soros for Covid-19 and the Floyd protests.

        “Lynne Teinert, the GOP chairperson for Shackelford County, shared on Saturday a picture of Soros with the text, “The pandemic isn’t working. Start the racial wars.”

        https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/05/texas-gop-chairs-racist-george-floyd/

        That’s the kind of thing OAN actively works to cultivate.

        Like

        • McNease

          Ok so it’s not a batshit crazy conspiracy theory. Your problem is that people oppose Soros’ politics.

          Like

          • ASEF

            Opposing his politics? Conspiracy theories are not opposition. Not in the healthy public debate sense.

            You can oppose Hillary Clinton’s politics (which I did) without resorting to conspiracy theories, like the sex slave ring in a DC pizza parlor basement.

            OAN works overtime to discredit BLM via the conspiracy stuff. In doing so, they tend to echo some nasty white supremacy bullshit. I doubt Gundy watched them enough to really pick up on it – college coaches tend to be busy – but now he knows, and I doubt we’ll hear him promote them anymore.

            Like

            • Derek

              You can’t convince people that facts and opinions are entirely different things.

              “The earth is flat” is just a viewpoint to them. Not an utterly and demonstrably false assertion of fact. Nope. Just an opinion like any other.

              Some people say Hillary killed 38. Some say 37. Others say zero. Who knows, right?

              To them a fact is an opinion they agree with. Likewise, an opinion is a fact that they don’t like.

              It is this total lack of intellectual honesty that allows someone like Ingraham to tell LeBron to shut up and dribble and say that the opinions of the clean cut white qb need to be respected.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Napoleon BonerFart

                It’s like arguing over exactly how racist a statue of an eighteenth century figure is. Who knows? Is the figure a champion of slavery? Is the figure an abolitionist? Is the figure Harriet Tubman dressed up like Aunt Jemima? What difference does it make? Pull it down! They couldn’t have sculpted Tubman in a nice professional pantsuit? Come on!

                Like

              • Yeah I agree with pretty much all of this. Sigh.

                Like

    • Dshillz

      +1 — Best comment in the whole thread.

      Like

  21. TripleB

    I think both the commentators that started this thread were right. It’s a bad development that people face such draconian consequences for watching a news outlet that isn’t politically correct (btw I never heard of OAN before, but I assume it’s on the opposite side of MSNBC). If I were a coach, I would be very concerned about this development, especially if Gundy gets let go.

    On the other hand. players need to share in the fortunes of college football. They realize this, and I guess they are lashing out in the way they are taught by the current “cancel culture.”

    I hope we get something done on image licensing, etc. so players can share the benefits. I also think they should be free to go pro whenever the market will support them. Then they are not losing anything by being at school and getting a really awesome opportunity that any kid would love to have. Once they are treated more fairly, though, I think coaches are going to have to stand up for themselves. Players, like everybody else, need to understand the difference between someone acting to harm them and someone having a different view than them.

    I am getting really tired of political venom screwing up sports. If this is “woke”, then lets go back to sleep.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Charlottedawg

    So I’m no constitutional scholar but a handy dandy Google search of the first amendment and associated legal analysis states that the government (specifically Congress) cannot prohibit an individual’s freedom of expression (exceptions being speech that is a clear and present danger such as shouting fire in a theater). Freedom of speech does not cover private actors including employee / employers.

    Also for intellectual consistency I like to play a little game called if someone with a different opinion did it. So if you think gundy shouldn’t face discipline from his employer for his choice of t shirt then NFL players such as Colin kaepernick shouldn’t face discipline for kneeling during the national anthem and vice versa. Otherwise, you don’t believe in free speech, you believe in free speech so long as it agrees with you.

    Like

    • mddawg

      “Freedom of speech does not cover private actors including employee / employers.”

      But most of these universities aren’t private employers right? I seem to recall seeing a number of articles in the past that showed the highest-paid state employee is typically the head football or basketball coach of each state’s flagship university.

      Like

    • Texas Dawg

      Kaepernick did it while on the clock with his employer, not at a private event so not a good comparison no matter which side you come down on in this debate.

      Liked by 1 person

  23. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Like

    • Derek

      Republicans are harsh:

      Like

    • Derek

      But they can be accurate too:

      Like

      • Pirate

        Derrick conveniently leaves out George Wallace was a Democrat . Slider is not a good pitch for you either

        Like

        • “Democrat” and “Republican” are not like Yankees and Red Sox. You don’t root for one or the other because of where you grew up, or because of the logo, or because you hate the pronunciation of non-rhotic “r’s.” It’s because of ideas. The south during Jim Crow, right up through LBJ’s pushing through the Civil Rights Act, was overwhelmingly Democratic, and overwhelmingly favored segregation. To act like this is somehow a feather in the 2020 iteration of the GOP is disingenuous. And I’m saying that as someone who is by and large a conservative. George McGovern would be much more sympatico with Trump than with Barrack Obama. Although McGovern, like Trump, made race issues a part of his politics because he saw a path to power. McGovern ultimately recanted, and referred to his support for segregation as cynical and calculated. I won’t hold my breath for Trump’s death-bed conversion.

          Like

    • Napoleon BonerFart

      The nation can’t withstand Liz Wheeler. The singular figure who can use Russian … something … to bring it all down!

      Like

  24. Dylan Dreyer's Booty

    I just want to say I LOVE the logo. Yeah, it should be official.

    Like

  25. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    @Chanel Rates Mike’s Hostage Video as 0/10.

    Needs more strobe and a mullet net.

    Like

  26. Derek

    So where does the “but muh freedom!” crowd come down on this attempt at prior restraint of free speech?

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/politics/john-bolton-book-trump-administration-lawsuit/index.html

    Like

    • PTC DAWG

      IF said agreement is in place, and he violated it, sounds legit to me.

      Like

      • Derek

        Why should public servants be bound by NDA’s?

        Don’t free citizens deserve transparency and information?

        Do you support an opaque unaccountable government?

        How do we make informed decisions without information?

        Like

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Only from Democrats. Schiff shouldn’t have to release any records. But Trump totally should. Easy.

          Like

  27. AthensHomerDawg

    We live in us development with estate lots that are 2-6 acres.There is a 40 acre lake here and small ponds I have a three quarter of an acre pond myself. This years the first year that I’ve noticed this many coyotes. People’s pets have gone missing especially cats and my dogs were attacked.
    Has anybody else had this uptick in coyotes. There are geese that fly in and out of here and occasionally I will have mallards on my pond.

    Like

  28. Union Jack

    This whole thing is classic Mike Gundy. It is reminiscent of a previous Gundy episode.

    https://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=3341578

    Like

  29. RangerRuss

    So we elect trust fund frat boys for Congress and gotdam hippies to run the big cities and everyone is surprised the country is going to shit. Meanwhile International communism is running a 4G war in our face and a complicit fourth estate cheers it on. The lettered agencies have all been politicized and compromised at the top but the rank and file agents are hopefully still on top of things.
    Leadership is hard. It’s especially hard when pussies are more concerned about delicate sensibilities and feeeelings than doing their damn job.

    Liked by 2 people

    • The leaders are scared of the mob. The mob is winning. It’s very scary.

      Like

      • The pendulum is going to swing back the other way, probably too far. When all reasonable dissent is drowned out and labeled “racism” (the favorite of the left) or “unpatriotic” (the favorite of the right), we just become a bunch of reactionaries sprinting heedlessly in one direction, and then when some catastrophic unintended consequence happens, turning around and sprinting heedlessly in the other direction.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

          Bingo.

          Like

          • RangerRuss

            If you’re not familiar with what Col. William Lind coined 4G warfare in the 80’s you should research it. You’ll find the parallels with recent events are no coincidence. This isn’t tin foil hat conspiracy shit even though the useful idiots will proclaim it as such.
            That’s why I say I hope the rank and file at the lettered agencies are on the mutha. Based upon the reaction to the rioting and looting from the Executive Branch I’d say they are and POTUS is heeding their advice. Deploying Skullcrackers Local 504 from the 82nd Airborne Alert Brigade would seem to be the expected reaction to this anarchy. But POTUS resisted the urge to do more than talk tough which is the correct way to engage these cunts at this point. The left wants martyrs. As of now Suzie Soccermom isn’t enjoying the sight of looted grocery stores and her favorite fast food franchise burning. But when videos of bloodied white college age kids are splashed all over the screen 24/7 with camo clad Paratroopers holding batons and M4s as the perpetrators then the administration has lost the good will of the average American. That’s the beginning of the loss of the 4G war.
            BLM and their ilk didn’t give a shit for some drunk criminal in Minneapolis or ATL when they were alive. They only care when they’re dead and preferably killed by a white man in a position of authority.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Derek

              Posse comitatus only applies during democrat administrations.

              Like

            • Yeah trump should absolutely never send the military now. I’ll look up your reference

              Like

              • RangerRuss

                If you’d like to read a first hand account account of what the masters truly running BLM have planned for the US then search The Great Bolivian Boogaloo Of 2019 at AR15.COM.
                Yeah the term boogaloo is designed to trigger the left and not something serious people employ in their vocabulary. It shouldn’t detract from the narrative described by someone living the anarchy perpetrated by the left in Bolivia. But you’d never know it was happening if all you payed attention to was the ‘outrage of the week’ on American mass media. If not for the intervention of the OAS the commies would’ve stolen another election as they did in Venezuela for Chavez.

                Liked by 1 person

        • I appreciate your comment very much. But I’m not sure I agree. What I’ve seen, just as my observation, is the millennials and Gen. Z are much more left leaning and much much much much more prevalent and willing to use social media. Most people more right leaning don’t seem to be as engaged on the platform. I see a lot of shouting down and willingness to have debate.

          But maybe as they get older and have different interests and priorities and get bored with it they will change.

          Like

    • Pirate

      Best comment of the year . They don’t teach that at uga or any college no mo

      Like

  30. Savdawg

    So the premise is that athletes have more power than they knew and can choose to walk if coaches/admins aren’t sufficiently woke, thus crippling the program/school. Problem is, all the schools have to do is give lip service to the cause and not do anything overtly racist. (ala the NFL). Then, the sheer number of athletes wanting a free ride means that strike is over. Maybe a couple coaches take their buyouts and go fishing but there will be no seachange.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. The mob is coming after the Dixie Chicks to change their name. As I’ve said earlier, once they’re done with everybody else, they will come for you.

    Like

    • Forgot about Lady Antebellum also. Which was fine until a week ago.

      Bow to the rage mob, you have become them.

      Like

    • Derek

      Things can get pretty dicey there:

      I mean whose more “woke” than Bob?

      Like

    • Go ahead and add mrs Butterworth to the list. For culturally appropriating an inanimate plastic clear bottle

      Like

      • Derek

        The free market is a bitch.

        Maybe trump can sign an executive order barring companies from caring about their customers cultural tastes IF the motivation is appeasing customers who trace their origins to shithole countries?

        Like

        • Napoleon BonerFart

          Free market is for pussies. Do you think Christian bakers will make cakes for pansexual transgender reveal ceremonies without the government cracking some skulls? Of course not.

          Like

  32. Mr Senator,

    don’t know if you have any people at word press you know to put in a customer suggestion but having a unread next read function of some sort would tremendously help navigating on mobile. I don’t think word press was ever designed to have more than a handful of comments.

    I have never seen any word press blog anywhere that gets the volume that you get to. I imagine you’re unwilling to change formats. But even game day live threads become an impossibility.

    And just a suggestion recommendation honest question. Happy that you are producing so much material and getting so much action.

    Like

  33. Oh, Google TV doesn’t have OAN. Lol.

    Like

  34. TN Dawg

    Be careful down there Atlanta peeps.

    Looks like the cops have walked off the job in much of Atlanta. Hard to blame them.

    Could be in for a rough night.

    Like

    • Got Cowdog

      Good plan. Cops take a knee and walk away. They can make more money finishing drywall anyway. Keep villainizing them and you won’t have to worry about defunding them. You won’t be able to afford them.

      Like

    • The entire nation is about to have a police shortage. The mob getting exactly what it wants. Blame the cops so that you can do what you really want which is lawless chaos anarchy

      Like

  35. dawgxian

    Wonder how much free advertising he gave OAN. Should have kept his mouth shut. I knew practically nothing about them till yesterday

    Like

  36. Corch Irvin Meyers, New USC Corch (2021)

    The Fulton Co. DA wants to stick a needle in a cop’s arm for literally doing his job and protecting himself as he’s allowed under the law for what reason? To pander to the mob to try to win an election and keep his power? The Supreme Court has literally already decided this issue. A cop who is shot at with a taser is allowed to respond with the next step up in force. There is zero precedent for chanting Officer Rolfe with FELONY MURDER, which carries the death penalty if convicted.

    Tonight, the Atlanta mayor is finding out exactly what happens when you pander to the mob. Even more, municipalities around Atlanta are refusing to send their own officers in to replace the cops on strike because why would they risk their own officers being charged with murder by the Fulton Co. DA for defending themselves or their partners?

    It’s time to push back against the Far Leftist authoritarians everyone is so afraid of right now with some good, old fashioned liberalism. Real, honest to God liberalism is the only thing that can save us now. By all means, prosecute a murderer like the the cop in Minneapolis, but trying to kill a cop in a miscarriage of the justice system for legally defend himself is beyond the pale. It’s time for the adults in the room to stop being afraid of BLM and Antifa and do the right thing.

    Liked by 1 person

    • RangerRuss

      A lot of correct in what you say. It’s ironic that the one time throwing money at the problem would alleviate many of the issues with law enforcement and in typical leftist stupidity they call for the opposite. More money for training and hiring would entice a higher caliber of officer. Meritorious promotion with advancing salary would retain said HQ individuals.
      But then you run into the problems endemic with leftie gooberments. Union rules prevent the sacking of bad eggs such as the sadistic asshole that killed the drugged up drunk criminal with two first names in Minneapolis. Poor situational awareness exacerbated by inferior, slack training and the lack of experienced, street smart supervisors were a contributing factor in the ATL Wendy’s shooting death. I agree that murder charges aren’t warranted in that instance. Just because you can shoot someone doesn’t mean you should.
      PD’s need to hire smarter, stronger men with the physicality to deal with rough customers. Maybe if SCOTUS hadn’t ruled that being too intelligent is cause for not hiring new cops or laws and rules weren’t so strict that most youngsters have no experience going hands on these weak candy asses wouldn’t be so quick to go to their guns.
      Maybe I drink too much strong coffee.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I got stabbed in a fight. I didn’t even realize it until after, when my buddy pointed out the blood on my hip. There was no pain when it happened. It was also my last fight as I learned the hard way what “Discretion is the better part of valor” really means. My point is this: Fear and adrenaline are a deadly combination and that is exactly what you have when you go “hands on” with someone and you have no way of knowing how it will end. Ask the kid that’s likely going to the chair for killing Ahmad Arbury. I would say ask Ahmad, but well…you know. Should the cop have shot the guy running away? No. I bet the cop is wishing right now he’d just let the drunk fucker run off into the bushes. If you can look back from the other side I bet the dead guy is wishing he’d just got in the back of the damn patrol car. Regardless of their tears and outrage, his family does too.
        In the situation where everything goes white and there is no thinking decisions and actions are instinctive and instant and in the case of this Officer? Final.
        Nobody really wants to be there. Lives fucking matter, people. If you have to put a color in front of the “lives” part you are part of the problem.

        Like

        • Derek

          Maybe that’s why they don’t send regular police out with guns in London…or Dublin.

          Like

          • That’s a great point, but do you see that elephant over there in the corner?

            Like

          • In those cases, the bad guys don’t have guns, either. We are armed to the teeth, unfortunately. I wish we lived in a world where cops didn’t have to have guns, believe me.

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            • Yes, that elephant.

              Like

            • Derek

              They have them. Not legally, but the criminals do have them.

              And if the circumstances require it, an armed response makes sense. I just don’t know why regular traffic and beat cops need to be armed. I think it would change the entire relationship between to police and the community if they did their jobs primarily without guns.

              It would also change the types of people interested in the job.

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              • They have them legally. The Wiki page on firearm regulations in the U.K. is worth a look.

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                • Derek

                  The criminals have them legally? You sure?

                  Like

                • How do you emoji eye rolling?
                  Citizens can legally own firearms in the UK but the restrictions are formidable. I’m suggesting that the restrictive policies and penalties concerning the ownership and use of firearms there is the reason LE can function there unarmed.
                  That’s not likely to happen here.

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                • Derek

                  I understand the facts on all of that.

                  Why don’t we see if one doesn’t follow the other? Disarm regular beat and traffic cops and see how things change. I predict for the better.

                  The public might be open to more regulations and restrictions once the police force regains credibility and sympathy.

                  Like

    • WIll (the other one)

      Or, better idea: let them walk. Cut the APD budget in half and spend that money elsewhere to improve things (which is what the south side of the city really needs). Cut heavily from traffic cops, station more cameras on roads to issue automatic tickets (including for driving too slowly in the left lane on the interstate). Then you’re stepping away from the failed model of broken windows policing, you have better enforcement of traffic laws (because now everyone running a light gets a ticket), and the remaining staff can be better trained to solve serious crimes (hopefully raising their abysmal close rates).

      Like

  37. Pirate

    Senator . I know you and I are on opposite sides politically, but that needs to be the official banner . When I opened it and saw that , I laughed a good long while Sir . Well played

    Like

  38. Derek

    Widdle donnie has a sad:

    Jun 18, 2020 10:10:19 AM – Do you get the impression that the Supreme Court doesn’t like me?

    Like

  39. CB

    Listened to about three words of Clay Travis and definitely got dumber.

    Like