Lack of imagination

Part of the problem with the NIL debate is that the older generation doesn’t really understand how most college athletes are going to monetize their names.  Yesterday’s Senate hearing was a clear indication of that.

Screenshot_2020-07-02 Ross Dellenger on Twitter Sen Wicker is asking OSU president Michael Drake how many, of 22 football s[...]

Ummm… probably not.

Screenshot_2020-07-02 Tom VanHaaren on Twitter Just from a social media standpoint, w out looking at the roster, here's 7 O[...]

Wicker did a fine job on his own, too, in that regard.

Screenshot_2020-07-02 Jon Solomon on Twitter Sen Roger Wicker Without embarrassing her, what do you think (former UCLA gymn[...]

Answer here.

This is how Wicker thinks.

Screenshot_2020-07-02 Ross Dellenger on Twitter Sen Roger Wicker, an Ole Miss graduate If I had the money as a local busine[...]

My first thought upon reading that was “yeah, so?”.  My second thought was that there are probably more than a few Ole Miss players getting more than that already.  Which is why this was the stupid cherry on top of the sundae.

Screenshot_2020-07-02 Steve Berkowitz on Twitter Mississippi AD Keith Carter and SEC commissioner Greg Sankey tell Sen Capi[...]

Schools aren’t going to be compensated for the social media value individual athletes generate, so there’s nothing there to be pulled away.  Nor are those $100 handshakes going to have an impact on an athletic department.  As far as Nike deciding to spend $100000 on a stud athlete instead of a school — assuming for the sake of argument that’s the case, something there’s no real world indication for — isn’t that what the free market is supposed to be about?

And as far as threatening women’s sports, that’s a school’s call.  Nobody is putting a gun to their heads. We’re watching athletic departments across the country deal with declines in revenue because of the coronavirus.  I haven’t seen a single one slash women’s sports to the detriment of everything else; cuts, when they’ve come, have been widespread.

As I’ve said before, tying the fate of women’s sports to NIL compensation is simply an argument that college athletes have the financial burden of supporting an athletic department instead of the institution.  That is bullshit.

58 Comments

Filed under It's Just Bidness, Political Wankery, The NCAA

58 responses to “Lack of imagination

  1. spur21

    Regarding your last three paragraphs – you need to head up to D.C. and enlighten those clowns.

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  2. spur21

    And while you are at it ask them how much $$ they get for their NIL when the lobbyist and special interest groups knock on their door.

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  3. bob

    Open a G league for football. Let players who are happy to receive only a college scholarship go to college. Let the rest make their millions in a G league.

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    • That should help the non-football athletes immensely.

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    • The NFL owners know minor league football is a money loser. Otherwise, it would have been in years ago.

      Typical straw man argument from an amateurism romantic … I don’t think many want pure pay for play (I only support it as a last resort). The argument right now is about NIL and allowing student-athletes do what every other student on campus has the ability to do.

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      • junkyardawg41

        “The argument right now is about NIL and allowing student-athletes do what every other student on campus has the ability to do.”
        So allow student-athletes to have the ability to profit off of NIL like any other student on campus. However, every other student on campus doesn’t get the same benefits as student athletes and, in fact, the average student gets the “opportunity” to pay athletics fees.

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        • Not sure what the athletics fee has to do with anything. I’ve always stated the athletics fee should be an opt-in fee. If you don’t opt-in, you get no access to student seating at athletics events and no access to the facilities that are available under the fee. Here’s the link to a description of the fee:

          Click to access tuition_athletic_fee_fact_sheet.pdf

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          • junkyardawg41

            With regard to the athletic fee, I was trying to point out an example that student athletes are not like all the other students. Specific to the assessment of an athletic fee, I totally agree with you that students should have the choice.

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            • I assume that student-athletes who aren’t on full scholarship have their athletic fee waived. I do agree S-As are different from everyone else on campus … like Foundation Fellows are different from everyone else on campus.

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              • junkyardawg41

                For the record, I believe there are things that can definitely be done with regard to NIL without opening Pandora’s Box. (EA sports NCAA games come to mind). The only point I was trying to make is S-A and NIL is very complex. Boiling the issue down to saying S-As should have the same opportunities as any other student whereas the vice versa isn’t true is an example of two parties not being equal.

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                • Just curious, but what does “without opening Pandora’s Box” mean to you?

                  Do I want S-As to become university employees? No.

                  I have no problem if Athens BMW gives Brock Vandagriff the use of a car and a payment to appear in a commercial. As long as all of the taxes are legally paid, I have no problem with it. If a local sports memorabilia shop contracts with Zeus White to do a signing, as long as it doesn’t affect what he needs to do to train or practice, why should anyone care if he makes some money? If a Gym Dog becomes a social media influencer on campus, why shouldn’t she be able to derive income especially considering that she likely isn’t on full cost of attendance scholarship?

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                • junkyardawg41

                  Pandora’s Box goes beyond car dealership deals or autograph signings. Pandora’s box wouldn’t require any action on the kids at all. I can just give money to S-As. The apparel companies might have a few endorsement deals with a few select players but the majority of the fund distribution would be conditional on attending specific universities.

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      • Derek

        …and use the legacy of a multitude of players and coaches that came before them to make bank?

        How?

        I’m curious as to what Tim Cook would think if some guy down the line was seen in an ad that said:

        “Use Acme brand widgets. Trust me, I work at Apple.”

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        • The logical extension of that is Todd Gurley owes UGA a piece of the action from his Nike deal after he turned pro.

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          • Derek

            Not really. UGA probably owes Todd for helping convince him to come back for an ACL injury and recovery.

            If “UGA” matters to Nike after the draft, then what did Fromm sign for?

            The point I’m making is that the professionalism sentimentalists don’t consider that a student who makes money is doing it entirely on their own.

            A UGA football player who cashes in on NIL is a barnacle on a ship and a huge fraction of their worth on the market was created by someone else at another time.

            For a bunch of “fairness freaks” you’d think that would come up at some point.

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            • So, Gurley had one source for his value up until the day he declared for the NFL draft and a completely different one immediately afterwards? Sure, that makes sense.

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              • Derek

                Not exactly what I’m saying. I was suggesting that the comment that the football players should be treated as any other student in terms of sources is income insults the intelligence of the reader.

                Stubborn and inconvenient facts are too often ignored by proponents of a change who won’t allow for a moment that the rule they are so dedicated to fighting has a rationale basis.

                That is: when a business approaches a UGA football player about an endorsement deal, that player is cashing in on the hard work of others who came before them.

                What’s fair in such a scenario? Do we let UGA pimp the players and then chop up the proceeds? Do we pretend that that the players all have individual non-UGA related value because it feels better though its without any basis in fact?

                Or do we say: if you want to be a pro, its a free country and there’s the door?

                I prefer the last answer because its the most honest and defensible one.

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                • Do we pretend that that the players all have individual non-UGA related value…

                  Of course they do. If they didn’t, they’d all have the same NIL value.

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                • Derek

                  But is ALL of the value their own?

                  No.

                  But they would keep ALL of it right?

                  And that would be the case even though they would be in direct competition with their own athletic department, right?

                  This is deemed a “fair market?”

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                • FlyingPeakDawg

                  It’s not a one-way street. UGA doesn’t need to offer a scholarship to a kid whose NIL deals may negatively impact UGAAD revenues if that were a true concern. But a savvy advertiser would spend on both the player and institution to maximize impact for a win-win-win scenario. Free market pressure.

                  I do think the responsible approach is for the schools to establish a program that provides legal and financial advice / protections to the SA and charge a fee for doing so. That provides adult oversight for the kids and levels the economic playing field. This, of course, will never happen.

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                • Why would they be in direct competition with their own athletic department? The Dallas Cowboys have plenty of corporate partners that pay for the privilege to have their names and brands prominently displayed at facilities and events … AT&T in particular … while the players are able to become spokesmen for AT&T as well.

                  Georgia Power, for example, isn’t likely to pull their sponsorship of Georgia (or Fech) sports to have Nakobe Dean (an engineering major) as a temporary spokesman because their tie is to the state.

                  Just an example, but I believe this is overblown.

                  Everyone knows your stance. You want college sports to be played by students first. You also have stated that schools like Alabama will do anything to convince a player to attend there (what’s different about that now?) and that schools who don’t compete will be left behind. That’s admirable and romantic.

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    • Charlottedawg

      Why is it such an either or for amateurism romantics? As opposed to a G league isn’t UGA better off having stud athletes like Michel, Gurley, Chubb and Roquan representing it than (no offense to them) a bunch of prather Hudsons and Stetson Bennetts because a G league took the best players? Wouldn’t the schools AND players like Marcus lattimore and Trenton Thompson BOTH benefit from them staying another year while monetizing their brands via NIL and the school gets another year of a beloved player’s services especially if that player might not end up having a HOF NFL career but has plenty of value in college? This seems like a win win.

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      • TN Dawg

        Which games would you attend, the G League games with the better players or the UGA games with Prather and Stetson, given the choice?

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        • I’ll take that bait. I would watch UGA football over a minor league football game just as I would watch a UGA baseball game over a Gwinnett Stripers baseball game.

          I think I said it this way last week. There is no doubt that for me the front of the jersey is what matters most, but that doesn’t change the fact that the name on the back of jersey should be able to receive more than he or she does now.

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        • Charlottedawg

          Probably neither, UGA games would then be boring and I would have no emotional tie to the G league. I imagine most fans would feel the same hence why nobody watches the ivy league. If you think about it, it’sa perfect illustration of how while the school has economic brand value so do the players, and the combination of those brand values is greater than if the schools didn’t showcase the top athletes and the top athletes didn’t represent the top schools with large fan bases. But this concept is lost in amateurism romantics, then again supporting amateurism depends on not understanding economic principles.

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      • Ding, ding, ding … winner, winner, chicken dinner.

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  4. “University of Washington shortstop and PAC-12 Defensive Player of the Year Sis Bates has 73,000 Instagram followers and gained about 40,000 since the last Women’s College World Series. Social media presence is marketable.” How is it marketable, exactly? I honestly don’t understand.

    “UCLA gymnast, Madison Kocian is a gold-medal-winning Olympian, whose net worth is estimated to be around $500,000.” Who’s estimate is this?

    “Sabrina Ionescu was a University of Oregon basketball player who stuck with Oregon in 2020 instead of declaring for the WNBA draft (she was the #1 pick). She was literally a professional athlete in a college uniform, and she’s currently worth $68,000/year.” Again, who says she’s worth $68,000/year? And if there’s not already considerable value to this individual from playing at Oregon instead of going pro and becoming the #1 pick, why did she stay at Oregon?

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    • spur21

      I’m clueless too when it comes to making $$ via social media so I did a little searching. I’m sure there are other ways to skin the cat.
      https://www.oberlo.com/blog/make-money-instagram
      https://optinmonster.com/make-money-on-twitter/
      https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/280966

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    • Influencers on social media are paid by companies to talk about products, services, etc. It’s all driven by how many followers you have on the various platforms and eventually your ability to drive traffic to those companies.

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    • Gaskilldawg

      Analagize to a billboard at a location where 74,000 cars drive by a day. Businesses will by advertising space there.
      Change the word “billboard” to “Instagram page” and 74,000 people a day see it, with one important difference. All 74,000 viewers are interested in what she is interested in. Thus, if she likes a product that product marketer knows that if if pays her to place the product in a favorable manner in her Instagram posts it will get 74,000 people seeing that endorsement.

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      • Good analogy. I’d add that the physical billboard structure, the labor to put up the paper on the billboard, and the highway leading past the billboard have all been paid for by the athlete’s college.

        Going back to the tweet threads referenced by the Senator: Sis Bates gained 40,000 followers after the Women’s College World Series. So it follows that she wouldn’t have gained any followers if she and her college hadn’t made the World Series. Yet, she’d get all the benefits if she monetized those extra followers.

        Shouldn’t colleges be entitled to some percentage of NIL profits made by athletes who launch from the colleges’ platforms?

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        • Should Michael Jordan have paid the Chicago Bulls for his NLI agreement with Nike especially as it exploded once it was clear he was going to be the GOAT?

          No, I don’t believe an athlete owes his/her university anything for their NIL.

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          • junkyardawg41

            Most Professional sports CBA’s have endorsement clauses. Michael Jordan was an employee of the Bulls. Unless you are endorsing S-As are university employees, I don’t think you can make that comparison.
            Although you do spark an interesting idea. Why do I have to have a player on scholarship? Couldn’t I, as a bag man, pay a Todd Gurley to go to UGA and have him pay his own way as a “walk-on” and still participate on the active rosters?

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            • I understand the CBAs (they’re the primary reason hugh schoolers can’t go straight to the pros). I admit my example wasn’t the best. My point was that Jordan’s marketability exploded in Chicago (the platform for his NLI value).

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      • PTC DAWG

        Exactly

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    • Russ

      As much as I despise the Kardashians, their entire net worth was pretty much fueled through social media. The 2 sisters sold part of their makeup companies for over a combined $1B. Now of course a college kid won’t be getting that, but easily tens of thousands is out there for pretty much any of them that puts in the effort.

      My buddy’s kid is just an average student that just graduated college. While in school, he would make (to me) silly Youtube videos. Found out he made $20k last year off those videos that he did on his spare time while earning a degree in Industrial Design. So the money is out there and kids know how to get it. The athletes should be allowed to partake just like any other student.

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      • Russ

        One more example. This is the ex-UCF kicker that was ruled ineligible because he had a Youtube channel in college that he had monetized. You can see how he makes money off of this. You may not watch it, but lots of people do, and advertisers pay for that.

        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mLlRa_dezwvytudo9s1sw/featured

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        • But, who would’ve known anything at all about him, if he wasn’t first a kicker for UCF?

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          • Probably the same amount of viewers TBH. I’ve go a 17 year old son and it’s crazy the way they (young adults his age) manipulate their social media platforms to share information. Let’s say for instance he’s got 50 friends in a group, and he shares a video with those 50. 25 of those 50 find it interesting and share it with another 50. It doesn’t take long to get 10,000 plus views or follows.

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  5. Normaltown Mike

    A savvy female athlete may not get the F250 from the local dealership that Ben Cleveland would get, but could do really well by being a style/fashion/health & beauty “influencer”.

    This is b/c young women shop prodigiously, especially online, and far more so than young men. There are currently non-athlete girls on campus that make Instagram posts or youtube video logs about their (mundane) lives and then will build a following and eventually do a review of shoes, shampoo, leggings, etc. Sounds crazy but you can find it. Hell, there are mothers making money monetizing their children opening toy boxes and playing with them. All this is to say is that it’s wide open and the NCAA and schools need to get the F out of the way

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    • Should there have been a couple of poles logistically stationed during Miss Ohashi’s routine, those u tube views would probably have tripled…marketable is not the phrase I’m searching for here… serious bank is….should she (or any student athlete) have the capability to produce a book, video/series of videos explaining the proper techniques/training to be used for that type of performance, let the general public decide whether there is an acce$$ fee involved or not…

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      • mddawg

        I get the sense that you’re hinting at some other type of performance here. A dance of the more exotic variety?

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    • Russ

      Bingo, Mike. Just because we may not know about it or understand it, doesn’t mean the money isn’t out there. It is and in a pretty big way.

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    • Tony BarnFart

      “hey sweetie, do you wanna collaborate ?” Any time you see a woman’s clothing store (or their principle), boutique or otherwise, ask to “collaborate” in somebody’s comment sections, that’s basically a job offer to be a breathing billboard.

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  6. junkyardawg41

    I think there is an interesting discussion today on NIL deals. Specifically, there would be 2 kinds in my mind. One would be based on potential. Think the recruiting star ratings. The other would be based on performance once on campus.

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  7. TN Dawg

    I understand the point of more OSU players having opportunities than what was estimated.

    But it’s unlikely many, if any, Georgia Southern players have NIL value.

    So while you may find 7 on OSU and UGA rosters, nationwide the average of 2 or 3 is likely correct.

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  8. Texas Dawg

    “As far as Nike deciding to spend $100000 on a stud athlete instead of a school”
    That was my question the other day when the contracts for the schools with Nike, Adidas, etc comes up. There is a finite amount of money that each company is going to spend on marketing. Will they pull back a significant percentage to directly compensate a stud to lock him up early. If UGA was going to get 10 million a year before (who knows with McGoofy’s negotiating skills) will they give the school now only 8 and spread the other 2 over direct compensation to players? Who knows, as we are entering unchartered waters.

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    • I assume you’ve paid some attention to the FBI’s case with the shoe companies. They’ve been paying players under the table all this time and still have the money to sign apparel deals with schools. Not sure this is worth worrying about.

      Even if were the case, why should we care how Nike freely spends its money?

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      • junkyardawg41

        I would think we would care if Nike openly creates competitive disadvantages based on its own vested interests.

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      • Texas Dawg

        Didn’t say I did care. I was just pondering how it will affect UGA’s deal when the next apparel contract came up. Apparently you care enough about that to blog about it Tuesday ( Dough for duds In light of Under Armour’s move to cancel its apparel deal with UCLA, I found this interesting….. or was that another Senator Blutarsky that posted that) and postulate as to why UGA did not get as big a piece of the pie (as say USCe ,TAMU or Auburn). Why would I give UGA a 10 million dollar contract when I can lock up the top 10-15 players on the team to contracts with a chunk of that money? After I have satisfied that obligation, then I will see what is left over for the school. We all know that money has changed hands under the table forever, but you had to be creative about it. Now that it will be out in the open, I suspect a lot more money will go directly to the athletes. Does not matter which side of the argument you are on. The fact is that money will be paid to players LEGALLY now.

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  9. Tony BarnFart

    I’m pretty sure Aaron Murray’s sister made $$ “collaborating” (pushing peoples stuff on instagram) while she was in college. But Aaron Murray couldn’t, and while i’m sure she is an awesome young lady in her own right, she would not have the 6 figures in following i think she had but for her brother being QB.

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