Your 9.30.20 Playpen

I assume some of y’all are chomping at the bit to discuss last night’s debate.  Before you get there, I just had to share this:

I gotta say, from “Anarchy in the UK” to MAGA is a helluva journey.

And with that, the floor is yours.

244 Comments

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244 responses to “Your 9.30.20 Playpen

  1. munsonlarryfkajim

    I did not watch. But everything I’ve read this morning seems to indicate it was a national embarrassment. This is coming from both liberal and conservative sources

    Liked by 2 people

    • Derek

      I did not watch. But everything I’ve read this morning seems to indicate TRUMP was a national embarrassment. This is coming from both liberal and conservative sources

      FIFY

      Liked by 1 person

      • munsonlarryfkajim

        Trump IS a national embarrassment. Get it right Derek

        Doesn’t sound like Biden did much positive either

        Can’t believe these are our 2 choices out of 330 million people.

        Liked by 5 people

        • Derek

          Really? You wonder why there isn’t a deep reservoir of good people who want to appeal to this particular electorate? For God’s sake why?

          Like

          • tiredofidsearch

            The problem is that the people who would make a good president are too smart to run.
            At that level, they dont need the additional scrutiny and headaches.
            So we end up with the dregs and career politicians (all of them crooks – both sides of the isle).

            Like

        • Got Cowdog

          I didn’t watch it. I can’t handle the Donald’s patronizing, pandering persona.
          Biden doesn’t seem to be very intelligent and has a bad temper to boot but hell, Trump is no better/same Great combination for leadership.
          They both make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

          Like

        • Spell Dawg

          I watched it all. I agree with the sentiment, “this is the best we can do?!??” but Trump shot himself in the foot multiple times. He was so hellbent on shaking Biden into a flub that he never gave him the time to do it. Completely whiffed on the layup when he failed to condemn white-supremacists. It’s an over-used term, but that was truly a shitshow last night.

          Like

          • Russ

            Hey, but at least he gave a shout out to his Proud Boys. Stand down and stand by!

            Like

            • MGW

              No. Stand BACK and stand by. Very very different things.

              Stand down means something. Stand back means nothing. Either way he refused to do anything other than to acknowledge himself as some sort of leader figure for them, capable of giving orders. “Stand by” unequivocally means to await his orders. Which he then gave when saying to go “watch the polls.”

              So the armed “proud boys” standing around polls trying to scare people on Election Day should be real… interesting.

              Liked by 3 people

        • tiredofidsearch

          The problem is the people who would make a good president are too smart to run.
          People at that level dont need the headaches and scrutiny that comes with it.

          Like

      • It was nice of Chris Wallace to bail Biden out whenever he needed it. Absolute joke of a moderator.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. I watched the first 60 minutes. A true national disgrace.

    Remember what a big deal it was when George H.W. Bush glanced at his watch while Clinton was speaking? GASP!!!

    Boy, we’ve come a long way.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. elbertadawg

    Put them both in open sound proof booths. Then if someone interrupts shut the booth and cut their mic off. This was a total fiasco. Nobody answered their questions and both interrupted. A waste.

    Liked by 7 people

  4. Derek

    Johnny Rotten is a fan of someone who shits all over every norm known to man?

    Couldn’t see that one coming.

    Like

    • sniffer

      If you look at how politicians have treated each other for millennia, it could be worse. This isn’t anything new.

      And when you think of how long Biden has been in politics, he’s seen it before.

      Like

      • Derek

        Trump really IS typical, standard issue, no different from the rest or some such fucking nonsense.

        Like

          • akascuba

            Being born in Germany of German parents who survived the war. I`ll be polite and assume that is meant in jest. If literal as you say I really feel sorry for someone who is so clueless to the actual horrors Hitler brought to this world.

            Like

            • Jest? I’m a leftist. I have no sense of humor.

              Sure, Hitler was bad. But he didn’t have a Twitter account. Can you imagine the utter devastation he could have wreaked?

              Like

            • tiredofidsearch

              I’m not saying he is Hitler reincarnated (he may be close though – swap out black, latino and asian for jewish…) but if you think back, the first few years of Hitler were not as bad as what came later since he was still consolidating power.
              Give Trump 4 more years and I hate to see where we would be.
              And no, I am not a liberal…..

              Liked by 1 person

    • cowetadawg

      It’s interesting, the Johnny Rotten pix is 2 years old. https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/john-lydon-looks-rotten-pro-13412209
      His Wikipedia page claims that he became a U.S. Citizen in 2013 in part because he liked Obama and his goal of providing healthcare for all.
      He did say he liked Trump’s part in getting more people paying attention to what’s happening.
      That’s akin to saying I like that my stage IV cancer has gotten me to the doc for a thorough examination.

      Like

  5. SCDawg

    I got through first 60 minutes. Felt like I was watching the end of America. From what I read it only got worse.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. Grafton

    The “Proud Boys” were happy with how the debate went last night.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. unionjackgin

    Actually Lydon supporting Trump and Brexit IS VERY ON BRAND for him.

    https://observer.com/2017/04/john-lydon-donald-trump-brexit-comments/

    Liked by 1 person

  8. mddawg

    I only watched the first 20 minutes of it since I had to get my daughter off to bed. Based on that extremely limited snapshot, I’d agree that it was a total shitshow.

    I thought Biden stumbled in his first answer about the Supreme Court and his response on expanding the court was a somewhat weak deflection. This won’t do anything to silence the criticism of his “mental decline” (FWIW, I don’t think Trump is all there mentally either). Later on he told Trump to shut up and called him a clown. I’m sure some were happy to see someone snap at Trump (I’ve referred to him as a clown on several occasions), but since part of Biden’s platform is returning some sense of dignity and normalcy to the office, this probably didn’t help that cause. I’ve heard he improved as the debate went on but I only saw a little of that before turning it off.

    I could see where some people would think Trump won the early rounds of the debate. He was on the attack the whole time, talking over Biden and making Biden play his (Trump’s) game. If you’re a fan of Trump, you probably love his unorthodox approach, so you probably loved this performance as well. I read one recap this morning which reference the saying about wrestling with pigs (you both get dirty, and the pig likes it) and I thought that was an apt description of what I saw.

    Maybe a weird analogy here, but Trump’s debate performances remind me of MMA fighter Nick Diaz. One trademark of his style was that he would through these endless combinations of punches. Not all of them would land, and he wasn’t particularly known for his power, but the relentless barrage of punches often didn’t give his opponents room to breathe or launch any effective counterattacks of their own. Trump’s relentless stream of attacks, continually talking over Biden forced him (Biden) out of his comfort zone. I can’t say if that held true throughout the debate, but since it’s the same approach we’ve seen from Trump before, I’m a little surprised Biden didn’t have an effective counter for it early on.

    Like

    • gurkhadawg

      Your last paragraph is spot on. Trump was brilliant, Biden was a senile old fool.

      Like

      • Spell Dawg

        Brilliant?? He was an angry, obnoxious, defensive blowhard all night. How many undecideds did he win-over with that performance? He could have engaged Biden in a tactical way, leading him to show his age/confusion, instead he badgered him constantly and made him a sympathetic figure.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Is this your homework Larry?

          “Brilliant” is a term that is defined by the context of the receiver. Trump was brilliant in that he achieved exactly what he set out to do – bully, talk down, and throw punches at his opponent to control the show and wear down Biden. He succeeded in his strategy. One thing about Trump, he is a master at using TV and the media to his advantage. He knows the debates are not about expressing your policy to voters, but are beauty pageants set up to provide the media with a bunch of sound clips to be used by either side to their advantage. Anyone debating Trump on a stage will be setting foot on Trump’s home court and face an uphill battle. When all you do is state your opponent’s name over and over, he’s the one winning.

          Like

          • Spell Dawg

            Biden hardly ever said his name, did you watch the whole debate? He shook his head, looked down, and did an uncomfortable forced laugh a LOT. Biden never wore down or was exposed, he was the same throughout (which was largely meh, but not the feeble-minded man Trump set out to show). Debates are about winning the undecided vote and exposing your opponent, Trump did neither with his chosen tactic.

            Liked by 2 people

          • Since he has no policies, a debate is about the same as absorbing the flood of inanities off the Orange blancmange’s Twitter drivel.

            Like

    • Tommy Perkins

      Biden is a lifelong stutterer, so this strategy would have been effective, except Trump was too impatient to let the strategy breathe. If you’re going to goad someone into a mistake, you have to give them time to make that mistake. Instead, Biden sat there and let Trump melt down.

      Liked by 3 people

  9. gurkhadawg

    I think that everyone here would agree we should thank President Donald Trump for saving college football. Thank you Mr. President.

    Like

  10. 3rdandGrantham

    Johnny Rotten looks great.

    My predictions: 1. There will be no more debates; the Biden camp will pull out shortly. 2. Trump loses rather soundly on election day. 3. Trump essentially goes AWOL afterwards and hides out at Mar-A-Lago for the remainder of his term. 4. Trump does not attend Biden’s inauguration in January.

    Either way, I really hope we don’t have a contested election; it’s the last thing the country needs. I also hope the dems don’t move forward in packing rhe Supreme Court.

    Like

    • mddawg

      I’m surprised that Biden didn’t have an answer like “I’ll commit to not packing the Supreme Court if Republicans will commit to not confirming the next Justice until after the inauguration.”

      Liked by 2 people

      • Grafton

        Mitch would never go for such an agreement. Stop thinking like a normal person.

        Liked by 1 person

        • mddawg

          Oh I agree 100%, but at least it would be a better answer (in my opinion) than the deflection he offered instead. It’s a commitment that doesn’t cost him anything to make, and it doesn’t take any tools out of his arsenal either.

          Liked by 1 person

      • David K

        Biden should announce now that he will fill the vacant RBG seat with Merrick Garland. Tell America that the Senate Republicans stole the seat from him 4 years ago and it should be his now.

        Like

    • David K

      The next debate is a town hall. The Biden camp definitely wants that one to happen. Trump is even worse when engaging with regular voters. He can’t be rude and talk all over them like he does to the press and like last night.

      Liked by 1 person

    • theotherdoug

      I pretty much agree. The Biden camp just has to keep Joe out of the news cycle and let Trump melt down.

      There is a lot of talk about Trump refusing to leave the office, but that’s just BS. There will be no concession speech. He is a coward and will simply disappear.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. After watching that shit show last night I am very fearful for the country and what lays in store over the next few months.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. stumpypepys2

    Is this the best we can do?

    Like

    • akascuba

      stumpy,
      Sadly it is. I felt like I was watching UT vs FU and hoping a meteor would take out all three of them. It would be much more entertaining if all three have shock collars including Wallace. Break the rules agreed before debate or go off topic you get a hard shock. That would be must see TV. Maybe two men enter one man leaves shock till one drops debate.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Not really a huge fan of Matthew Walter’s writing at “The Week”, but he’s spot on with his analysis of the debate:

      “It was like witnessing an argument about an arcane procedural rule during a senior bingo night at a nursing home in purgatory. It was vicious, tasteless, witless, and (surprisingly, alas) painfully unfunny….It was a grim reminder that there is nothing amusing about the slow but almost certainly inexorable decline of the United States into a senile gerontocracy whose basic organizing principles are numbers going up on a computer screen somewhere and mindless entertainment. The whole thing is as painfully sad as it is well deserved.”

      Liked by 4 people

  13. ASEF

    Trump basically conceded the voting part of the election last night. He’s already moved on to the “let’s see if I can bully the courts into throwing out the votes” part.

    He’s going to lose, but he won’t go until there’s blood in the streets. Technically not anarchy but definitely violent chaos. So I can see the appeal for JR.

    Best moment of the night: the “Portland Sheriff” announcing emphatically on Twitter he no way in hell supports DJT.

    Worst: Trump attacking Biden’s dead son. The only silver lining in it was yet more women voters walking out of his camp.

    Keep yapping, Donnie. There are only so many old white guys out there. And as an older white guy, you don’t even have all of those.

    God Bless America. We need it now more than ever.

    Liked by 11 people

    • I know I’m probably in the minority, but I think Trump will gladly concede on election night, or shortly thereafter. I think he’s tired of being president. I don’t think it’s “fun” for him any more.

      Like

      • ASEF

        I think he’s going to hold a gun to the head of the Constitution and demand both federal and state immunity before he walks out the door. He’s not just looking at losing an election. He and his family face real criminal jeopardy. He’s trying to frame it as political retribution, but the reality is that he’s just corrupt as hell and neck deep in money laundering operations. The east headline on his taxes was the $750. The slightly more complicated headline was the hundreds of millions in debt to unknown entities. The much more complicated headline was the extent to which his gold properties are basically money disappearing machines. Sleight of hand borrowing, zero investment, and inflated values. ATMs.

        The man is in deep financial trouble with criminal implications.

        Liked by 6 people

      • charlottedawg

        I don’t think trump will concede if he loses the election and will fight it to the bitter end and that is precisely why I am VERY concerned post election day. He’s pretty much said he refuses to accept the results of any election where he is not the winner and his stand by stand up comment will be the first of many where he will encourage violence from his base in the event he loses. It’s the reason he’s banging the drum on mail in ballots, so he can say the election was “rigged”. In trump’s mind he can never lose, he usually reconciles his litany of business and as president political failures via spin by saying how an L was really a W but there is no way to spin losing an election. Such a public loss of face will mean Donny will use whatever means necessary to hold on to power. I think as americans we’re so used to peaceful transfers of power every election cycle we can’t fathom that not happening. I hope I’m wrong but that’s how I would see it playing out and why I’m extremely worried for our country.

        Disclaimer that I’m no political scientist or constitutional law expert, my opinions and predictions combined with $2 can get you a cup of coffee, that’s about it.

        Liked by 5 people

  14. Morris Day

    Musical palate cleanser request… Mac Davis is gone at the age of 78. I’ve always been partial to “The Beer Drinkin’ Song” myself! R.I.P.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Trump did exactly what he wanted to do:
    1) Get Joe to either affirm his affiliation with the extreme left or distance himself from them. The contempt the extreme left had for Hillary was part of the reason he got elected in the first place, and Trump wants to create that wedge again. Joe both distanced himself and affirmed, which is like the best case scenario for Trump.
    2) Trump wanted to show that Joe was bordering on senility and not as sharp-witted as Trump. That’s been Trump’s message for a month now: Sleepy Joe doesn’t have what it takes. After watching Joe’s performance last night, it’s hard to argue that point. It looked like elder abuse for much of the night. The president doesn’t need to be someone who needs protection from the bad man, but Joe looked like a helpless old man being taken advantage of. If you think Joe will last four years, much less eight, you are probably senile, too.
    3) Make sure everyone remembers Joe has been in office for 47 years while campaigning on none of his work during those years.

    Biden did exactly what he wanted to do:
    1) Orange Man Bad. Hard to argue this point.
    2) Make Trump a white supremacist. Success.
    3) Appear personable. He succeeded when he looked at the camera. He was getting destroyed on COVID until he mentioned the empty chairs. He rebounded again over his son’s drug addiction, deflecting away from the fact he’s been sucking off the government teat his entire life like his daddy.
    4) Not show frailty. While he shows obvious signs of slipping mental capacity, he weathered the storm for an hour and a half. I think he was successful enough here, too.

    Neither man mentioned any policy changes they want to implement… in fact, any questions on policy were ignored. Nothing that happened in this debate will actually change a voter’s mind at this point, so there are no winners. Just losers: the American people.

    As a reminder, there is a third party candidate who is on ballots in enough states to win this election. It is still legal to vote for the other Jo. Just imagine the shock and horror if 60M people voted against both of these douchebags.

    Liked by 2 people

    • J.R. Clark

      AW HELL NAW to voting for third party candidates! Libertarians are as nutty as squirrel turds. A vote for a third party is a vote for Trump. Biden spoke for hundreds of millions of Americans last night when he said, “Will you just shut up, man?” It’s time to put an end to the KKKlown show. America needs to utterly destroy the Republican party at all levels of office and finally consign the philosophy of conservatism to the trash heap of history.

      Liked by 9 people

      • Libertarians want to end wars, create actual criminal justice reform — demilitarize police, stop overcriminalization (which creates police-civilian interactions that tend to end badly) of stupid things — balance our budget by reducing out-of-control spending so the impending economic collapse can be averted, defend the rights of individuals instead of special interests and the bourgeoisie, etc.

        But, you’re right. It’s the libertarians that are the crazy ones.

        Liked by 2 people

        • J.R. Clark

          The definition of crazy is running on the same deeply unpopular ideas every election cycle and always getting the same 2% of the vote. NO ONE wants to go back to Middle Ages Europe or Gilded Age America.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Specifically, what part of the platform do you disagree with?

            Like

            • J.R. Clark

              “We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution.” This precisely is why 98% of the electorate despises libertarians. This would do away with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, veterans’ benefits, Pell Grants, farmers’ subsidies…shall I go on?

              “Accordingly, we oppose occupational and other licensing laws that infringe on this right or treat it as a state-granted privilege.” So anybody who wants to hang out a shingle and practice medicine or pharmacy or law can do so under the libertarians? This is why 98% of the electorate distrusts libertarians.

              “Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability, and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.” Yeah, the abolishment of public education is a real popular idea. This again is why 98% of the electorate would NEVER vote for a libertarian.

              “Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become even more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.” [drops mic].

              Liked by 4 people

              • Thank you for your reply. I want to first point out that having a party platform is really just a set of ideas for a utopian society as the party sees it. It isn’t a projection of the things that they think they can accomplish if elected. Libertarians do believe these things would make for a better society, but most don’t think they could ever be achievable because society has gotten so accustomed to needing the government that they couldn’t do without them. Moving in the direction of liberty and less government intrusion in our lives seems more reasonable and more preferable than moving into a direction where we eliminate cows, but I digress.

                1) Everyone loves their grift. Can’t lose the government bennies someone else is paying for. What about my roads, right? Most libertarians believe that some government allocation of resources for common public good is necessary and acceptable. Their primary aim is to limit those things to what is actually for the common good and not what pork the local candidate needs to get elected. I would think more money in your pocket instead of the ruling elite’s pockets would be preferable, but apparently not.
                2) That’s not what that means at all. There can still be private licensing organizations, but the permitting through the government is just a bureaucratic layer that harms small businesses and entrepreneurs on behalf of Mega Corp. It also puts the responsibility back on the consumer to not just take the word of some licensing authority in regards to competence. As a CPA, do you think the GA state board has any idea whether I’m competent or not? Yet their official seal lets me have all the marketing privileges whether I am or not. I just have to check a few boxes and send them a check every two years.
                3) US public education is a failure. It is rife with corruption, run by union leaders that don’t teach in a classroom, and is absolutely nothing like the European or Asian models that are actually successful. They have turned into daycare centers absolving parents of any responsibility to educate their own children. When the children fail, they blame the teachers and they blame the schools, when it was actually a failure at home. School choice is uniformly derided because it takes money away from the public coffers, not because it is inferior in any way. Everyone loves their grift.
                4) Social security and medicare are both broke, built on faulty budgeting ideas that have completely flipped insolvent now that the demographics have changed. We’ve known this for a generation or two at this point. Everyone graduating when I did nearly 20 years ago were told not to expect either to be around and to plan our own retirement accordingly. Phasing it out as my generation retires would instantly give (nearly) everyone a 7.65% raise instantly.

                Perhaps 98% of Americans don’t trust Libertarians, despises them, and will never vote for them. You also forgot to bring up marijuana, abortion, legalized prostitution, etc., that some people find distasteful about Libertarians, but it’s good to know that it’s the L’s that are the weak-minded fools that everyone hates instead of the people who have actually been running the country for the past few centuries. They’ve been doing such a good job with their monopoly on power that they deserve your undying loyalty and commitment to the brand.

                Like

                • J.R. Clark

                  If you seriously support abolishing Social Security, Medicare, and public education (this would include public universities like UGA), you are in Cloud Cuckoo Land and you will never get a majority of the public to support your ideas.

                  Liked by 2 people

              • Equating popularity with validity is a logical fallacy known as ad populum, or the bandwagon fallacy.

                Yes, libertarians would do away with Pell Grants, farmers’ subsidies, and many other popular programs. That doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do. Subsidies increase costs. College tuition has ballooned largely due to government subsidization. The answer is not to subsidize even harder.

                Yes, occupational licensing laws are harmful. If you believe that someone should spend hundreds of hours to become licensed to braid hair, then you’re part of the problem in this country. Maybe that’s a popular position. But it’s nonsensical.

                Somehow, children were educated in this country before the implementation of the federal Department of Education in 1979. In fact, American public education has only declined in quality since that time. But pointing out that fact must make someone crazy.

                As for Social Security and Medicare, if you believe that programs that have racked up $124 trillion in unfunded liabilities are rousing successes, than I can’t say much except that our politicians of both major parties appreciate your unthinking loyalty.

                Liked by 1 person

            • David K

              The economic policies would have enormous negative consequences for poor Americans and overwhelmingly against minorities. It’s the whole idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps in political form but it doesn’t account for the institutional hurdles and barriers that prevent that from happening. It would only strengthen those hurdles and further the divide between the haves and have nots. Most people that push Libertarianism have had a lot in life handed to them while at the same time being socially progressive for the most part. Libertarians want to pull away every social safety net and tell everyone that they’re on their own. Easy to say when you aren’t born into poverty and given the chance to go to college and ease into a well paying job.

              Liked by 1 person

              • The question that needs to be answered is who placed those institutional hurdles in place? Was it not the government? It certainly wasn’t me. Was it you?

                Most people have been brainwashed to think that it is the government that is helping people overcome the hurdles. They’ve been at it for quite a while now with no success. Perhaps it’s because they put the hurdles there in the first place and it is more profitable to keep them there?

                Many policies that support freedom actually would give minorities more help to succeed than anything the government has ever done. School choice would instantly close districted schools that sucked and would allow marginalized students with promise a much better chance to succeed. For some reason, D’s really, really hate charter, magnet, and private schools for poor minority children. Why would that be, except they lose control of the money and the curriculum.

                “Libertarians want to pull away every social safety net.”

                Ideally, that would be the case. It couldn’t ever actually happen for all the reasons stated previously, but there are a significant number of minorities that live on the safety net. They go through generational poverty because they get by on what the safety net provides. There is no incentive to do otherwise. If you start taking away some of those “protections”, perhaps by limiting the number of years you can receive those services to promote temporary use to get back on your feet rather than a life-long dependence, then more people would be self-sufficient which is better for everyone in the long-term.

                (Btw, I was born into poverty to an impoverished, teenage, single mother. I went to the poor school in the district, and I was the first in my family to graduate from a four-year college. Not all of us were born with silver spoons like Don, Jr. or Hunter.)

                Like

                • J.R. Clark

                  Did you graduate from a public university?

                  Like

                • Wolfman

                  The reason D’s hate charter, magnet, and private schools is precisely because they lose control of the money and the curriculum, because it gets co-opted by those who already had access to those resources in the first place. Charter and magnet schools are great when they are used as intended, but in many cases today, they are created by those with “means” so that they can have their children educated away from “others”. In addition, charter and magnet schools take money away from the public schools that are left, depending on how many children attend. It makes sense to have the money follow the child to the new school, but if all that’s left in the public schools are those who don’t have the social capital and monetary influence to create those pathways, the money is further drained from the students who needed it the most.

                  If the charter and magnet schools in your area are actually diverse and serve those who need them, then that makes me happy, and kudos to those schools. In my area, they are not – they are elite schools used as a loophole for kids with families of more influence to get a more select education on the government’s dime. And that is sadly becoming more true nationwide.

                  Like

                • There it is. The old “Libertarian takes part in the government-sanctioned programs, so he doesn’t hold to his own ideals” trick. Saying a Libertarian can’t use the programs that are there despite he or his family paying taxes for them is like arguing an atheist shouldn’t breathe the air because God created the air.

                  Just because I think there should be reforms and society would probably be better off without Big Academia, doesn’t mean I didn’t need their slip of paper to get a job. I played the capitalism game and acted in my best interest abiding by the rules as they were set when I had to play. It doesn’t mean the rules are fair to everyone. In fact, I posit they are not fair, and they should be changed. But, that’s not popular because it goes against the establishment.

                  Like

                • Money spent on education does not equate to student performance.

                  Like

                • @Wolfman

                  I don’t doubt your sincerity or experience. The Deptartment of Education statistics don’t really correlate with your experience, though.

                  The percentage of public charter school students who were Hispanic increased (from 19 to 33 percent), as did the percentage who were Asian/Pacific Islander5 (from 3 to 4 percent). In contrast, the percentage of public charter school students who were White decreased (from 43 to 32 percent), as did the percentages who were Black (from 33 to 26 percent) and American Indian/Alaska Native (from 2 to 1 percent).

                  People of color in charter schools have grown from 57% to 68% since 2000.

                  Schools in which more than 75 percent of students qualify for free or reduced-price lunch (FRPL) under the National School Lunch Program are considered high-poverty schools.6 Those in which 25 percent or less of students qualify for FRPL are considered low-poverty schools. In fall 2017, some 35 percent of public charter school students attended high-poverty schools, which was higher than the percentage of traditional public school students who attended high-poverty schools (24 percent).

                  The number of children from highly-impoverished neighborhoods attending charter schools is higher than the regular public education population by nearly 50%.

                  I’m sure there are bad schools everywhere (government-run and private), and, honestly many charter schools are still run by the same corrupt school districts in some states. But I don’t think forcing the 7% of public school children in charter schools to go back to regular private schools is the only option. There is also the option to allow the other 93% to go to charter schools. Especially when schools are periodically examined with the threat of their charter being revoked if they fail to live up to their expectations.

                  Like

                • DawgFlan

                  “The question that needs to be answered is who placed those institutional hurdles in place? Was it not the government? It certainly wasn’t me. Was it you?”

                  Yes, actually, it is me and you. And the billions of me and you that came before. It’s called human nature.

                  Since we were hunting and gathering, every natural human instinct is to cheat, steal, manipulate, and exploit for the benefit of “ours” even if it comes at the expense of “others.”

                  And we’ll still vote for the guy that saves us a few thousand bucks in our own account even if it means tearing the Constitution and societal fabric apart.

                  Government, being made and manage by humans, has complicity in the entrenchment of the “ours” vs. “others” paradigm (America first!) but if you think doing away with every flawed societal structure will cure the human condition, well, you definitely still have a thing or two to learn.

                  Like

                • So people are flawed and prone to violence and subjugating others. And the solution for that is to … give those same people the imprimatur of the state and allow them to violently enforce policies upon people who may not voluntarily comply? I guess that’s one way to go.

                  Like

                • DawgFlan

                  Boner, be it by patriarch, priest, judge, pharaoh, king, army, police, senates, emperor, president, HOAs, PTAs, scouts, little league – government is literally the only way it has EVER gone when more than 2 or 3 are gathered.

                  Put 20 people on an island and the first thing they will do is develop a hierarchy with rules and alliance that favor the “in” group more than the “others,” and then the fun, drama, violence and back-stabbing begins. They should make a show like that…

                  The only stronger aspect of human nature than the struggle for power is desire for connection. There is no easy answer to resolve the two, regardless what Ayn Rand may say.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • @ Dawgflan

                  You are conflating anarchy with libertarians. Some libertarians are anarchists, believing in no government, but that is not a mainstream view. The mainstream view is that because government is a requirement in a civil society, we need it… it should just be limited in scope and power so as not to infringe on individual liberty. Kind of like the ideas in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

                  Also, the human condition is the primary reason to limit the government instead of constantly expanding its power over our lives, but thanks for the lecture, dad.

                  Like

        • Yes, let’s leave everything up to corporations instead of government. That won’t result in vaccine profiteering in a pandemic or anything.
          But I do get a chuckle that they have to give copies of Ayn Rand books away to get them on HS reading lists as they know deep down the free market doesn’t actually want to buy any novels that poorly-written.

          Like

          • Exactly. I’m so tired of Amazon and WalMart forcing me to shop there at the point of a gun. If only the government could get involved to transform the free market into something more akin to the DMV.
            #TooMuchChoice

            Like

          • Capitalism works when everyone acts in their own best interests. It accurately assesses the human condition… that is, the likelihood of humans being selfish and greedy, and it accounts for that by allowing everyone to price their labor fairly. Have there been oversteps and reforms? Yes, but it isn’t an accident that the US is the richest country in the world by orders of magnitude.

            Capitalism fails when people are incentivized to act against their own interests. What do most leftists want right now? Tax increases on corporations and the wealthy. The only problem is that will directly impact their retirement savings, meaning they will either need to work longer before retirement or have a worse standard of living in retirement. Who is one of the largest investor blocks in the country? Teachers unions, who are directly pushing for tax increases. It’s a perfect example of not acting in their own best interests. Because they are working against their own retirement savings, they need more taxes taken from younger people to make up the difference by expanding SS & MC. It’s a cycle that the establishment is all to happy to oblige because they maintain their power over you, allowing you to shoot yourself in the foot over and over with bad policy decisions that lack any forethought as to future ramifications.

            Like

    • Russ

      I voted for the dope smoker Gary Johnson last time. While I honestly believe he could do better than Trump, I won’t that mistake again this year. I’ll hold my nose and vote for Biden/Harris to help rid the country of Trump. It will be the first Democratic vote I’ve ever cast for President, but there aren’t any Republicans running now.

      Liked by 8 people

      • No one’s single vote makes a difference in any election. It requires a cultural change to overcome something so ingrained in our psyche as the two-party system. As long as everyone is content to vote for the lesser of two evils, nothing will change. On top of that, people like to support winners. Voting L is a vote for a loser, but I would argue so is voting for an R or a D.

        After the circus that was last night, what is the harm in letting the Libertarian candidate onto the debate stage? That’s the first step in creating a legitimate alternative.

        Like

        • Russ

          I agree we need a legitimate 3rd party contender, but this year it’s not there. I believe they were in the debates last election but it didn’t make much difference. Not sure what’s going to change it, unless it’s this shit show we’re watching now. Like an alcoholic, maybe we have to hit rock bottom to actually start to change.

          Like

          • Third parties aren’t allowed to debate. The Commission on Presidential Debates (formed by the joint sponsorship of the Republican and Democrat parties) make the rules for the debates and select the moderators. They have a rule that a third party must have 15% support among five national polls. That hasn’t happened since Ross Perot in 1992, who had no party affiliation.

            The system is rigged against third parties, because the status quo is good for business. Even though the business is Corruption, it doesn’t deter people like JR above from decrying the absolute necessity that we continue to vote for our Corruption Overlords and marginalizing any thought to the contrary as idiocy or lunacy.

            Liked by 1 person

            • J.R. Clark

              It’s not just me. 98% of the electorate is strongly opposed to libertarianism. When an overwhelming majority of voters despise your ideology, it’s time to come up with better ideology.

              Like

              • The Libertarian ideology is really an amalgamation of what used to be Republican ideals on economic liberty and Democratic ideals on social liberty combined. Today, both establishment parties are more concerned with maintaining power and control over the electorate and have nothing to do with former ideals. They just have so many trained seals clapping for their every move that they can trot out a steaming pile of dung as a candidate and the electorate just licks it up believing all the while that it is filet mignon.

                By the way, just because 98% don’t vote libertarian, doesn’t mean 98% is opposed to the ideas. Do idea polling and L’s come out very favorably.

                For now I just want to note that there are indeed a lot of voters who don’t fit neatly into the red and blue boxes. The word “libertarian” isn’t well known, so pollsters don’t find many people claiming to be libertarian. And usually they don’t ask. But a large portion of Americans hold generally libertarian views – views that might be described as fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

                Liked by 1 person

      • debbybalcer

        I voted Johnson last time I could not vote for Hillary. This will also be my first presidential vote for a democrat.

        Like

  16. The moment that stands out for me in the debate did not actually directly involve the participants. It was when my wife almost spit out the hot tea she was sipping and laughed in unbelief and blurted out, “What? He actually said that?”

    She was referring to Chris Wallace quoting Trump as saying he’d “done more for blacks than any president in history, with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln.”

    Mind you, my wife is intentionally not very “tuned in” to what the President Tweets, so even though she’s informed about national politics on a macro level, she misses a lot of the crazy things the President says/tweets.

    It was stark reminder to me of just how accustomed I have become to how outrageous, ridiculous, and stupid Trump’s behavior has been, and how desensitized I am to it.

    But that also is an indication to me that last night was “really” bad. Because it seemed like a slap in the face. And after all I’ve witnessed and absorbed in the last 4 years, for last night to seem like a slap in the face is proof to me that it was truly horrendous.

    Liked by 2 people

    • And, to be clear, I don’t think Biden acquitted himself well, either. I thought he had a poor showing. A mixture of old age tiredness, slow mental reflexes, impatience, and — as others have pointed out — made a huge mistake in trying to play Trump’s “game”, with petty personal jabs.

      Like

  17. PTC DAWG

    What debate? Had a nice dinner at the beach…

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Russ

    Whatever Chris Wallace got paid to referee that shitshow, it wasn’t enough.

    Like

    • Ha. I chuckle reading people lambasting him for his performance as moderator. Wait until they see the next two people who are moderating. The dude from C-Span has NEVER done anything like this.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Russ

        I thought he did as well as anyone could have done in that circus. Maybe if we had Arnold or Jesse or The Rock as the moderator and they just literally slapped Trump or Biden for misconduct, that would have been better. But Wallace did as much as he possibly could have done.

        Liked by 1 person

  19. The really unusual thing about the bits of the debate that I watched last night is that I had the realization that pondering the Auburn game feels like the more adult activity than any kind of dialogue that could be engaged in related to the flaming pile of poo presided over by the reluctant necromancer known as Chris Wallace.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Liked by 4 people

  21. godawgs1701

    posted this in one of the posts lower down, but it was suggested that more people are here, so I’m re-posting it.

    One of my friends in Athens won a spot to be in the virtual crowd for College Gameday on Saturday, and she’s looking for ideas for signs. I couldn’t come up with anything creative that she was willing put on a sign (I still think that my “GUS BUS IS THE NEW EPSTEIN PLANE” suggestion was a great sign). Do y’all have any ideas?

    Liked by 3 people

  22. TripleB

    Other than the next few Saturdays, I just wish 2020 would end!

    Like

  23. Dylan Dreyer's Booty

    Based on reports that The Apprentice more or less saved Trump’s “brand”, I think we should all give Mark Burnett a swift kick in the balls .

    Liked by 9 people

  24. Jack Klompus

    This is the most civil I’ve seen the Play Pen in a while. Wondering if everyone is in a state of shock or if the Trump lovers are finally seeing him for what he is. I’m hoping it’s the later.

    Liked by 5 people

  25. miltondawg

    I don’t care if you are a Trump lover or a Trump hater, if last night didn’t convince you that Trump had no chance in hell to win this election then I don’t know what would. Best to underfund your retirement in 2020 so that you can plan on overfunding as much as possible going forward because taxes are about to be a bitch.

    Like

  26. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Like

  27. Dylan Dreyer's Booty

    This YouTube clip from Trevor Noah is a decent summary:

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Previously Paul

    I listened to about two minutes of it. I’ve never been so embarrassed in my life. If these are the two best men to choose from to occupy one of the most powerful positions on the planet then we are in a world of hurt. I can’t imagine voting either on to my county commission or school board. Neither is qualified to be president. Help us Obi-Wan Kenobi. You’re our only hope.

    Like

  29. Scotty King

    The whole thing is really sad. There have got to be better people to lead our nation than these two.

    That said, I don’t blame any decent person for avoiding the whole political realm.

    I lay much of the blame at the feet of the press, who prefer making the news to reporting it. USA Today’s Sport section has turned into an Op-Ed page.

    Like

    • miltondawg

      There are many, many people that are better to lead our nation than these two. Unfortunately, they can’t win the nomination from either party because in order to win the nomination you have to be so extremist that you become abhorrent to the vast majority of the voting public.

      Liked by 1 person

    • DawgFlan

      “The press” is just the manual pre-cursor to the “more like this” algorithms YouTube and social media uses to keep you tuned in. Blame the audience, not the machine.

      Like

    • rigger92

      I agree, but they behave the same way in the Senate and Congress. They’re all rude and disrespectful.

      Like

  30. RangerRuss

    Shit man, I thought Johnny Rotten died in the ’70s. Took a quick look at his biography and saw that he has experienced life as many have. A bit more in the spotlight of course. Married for over forty years, raising his late step daughter’s three children and dealing with his Sweetie’s mental deterioration from Alzheimer’s.
    It seems a cold dose of reality pimp slapped him late in life and he finally developed some common sense. Some folks that happens to early, some later and some never. If you’re still hanging on to utopian ideals at sixty-four, hell even at thirty? Well bless your heart. There ain’t no free lunch, ladies.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. bucketheridge

    Trump’s goal was to dissolution voters, and it worked. It’s all about feeding cynicism and destroying the people’s trust in all American institutions. He wants apathy. He wants us to throw our hands up and ask “what’s the point?”.

    To see an American president actively try to destroy all faith in America itself is incredibly difficult to watch.

    Liked by 5 people

  32. Quite honestly, there was one huge winner from last night’s debate.

    Saturday Night Live.

    If they don’t knock it out of the park, they are idiots.

    Like

  33. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Lindsey’s a good boy.

    Like

  34. Don in Mar-a-Lago

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Is this your homework Larry?

    I’m torn. . . they were both so impressive.

    Like

  36. stoopnagle

    Yeah, I care too much for my own mental health to have watched a “debate” involving Donald J. Trump. Based on the short review I read (skimmed would be a better term), at some point I expect Biden is going to go Buzz Aldrin on him and just punch him in the face. (Somebody needs to, anyway).

    On a not so entirely different track and since I just need to get this out of my system because I’ve abandoned nearly all forms of social media, I learned recently that the “crudely racist” British National Front was a late 70’s political party in the UK which used the slogan “Make Britain Great Again” (Mudde, 2019). So there’s that. Thatcher evidently picked up on the slogan, too.

    Have a great day everyone: just remember, America’s been through worse.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. Biggen

    I’m only here to see if the Senator had to shut down today’s playpen. I can’t believe he hasn’t had to do that yet!

    Like

  38. Got Cowdog

    I have to share this.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parrots-separated-england-zoo-cursing-swearing-at-guests/
    If I had a Parrot it’d be a potty mouth for sure.

    Liked by 1 person

    • RangerRuss

      They’re eager to be corrupted. It took us only a few seconds to train a parrot at a Columbus pet store to say “fuckn leg” which is the worst insult a Paratrooper can call NAPs (non-Airborne personnel). The proprietor was less than pleased.

      Liked by 3 people

  39. siskey

    I have listened to a lot of podcasts and read a lot of shit on the internet about how bad our QB situation and O-Line are. Talk me off the ledge.

    Like

  40. Smokeaterdawg316

    Jeez, am I still on GTP?

    Although in some ways I kinda figured, from subtle nuances here and there, that this neighborhood was possibly mixed with a few self-important, country club lefties (no disrespect intended).

    Still, It’s a little like a rude awakening. I thought that sure, the occasional closet commie may like a little Dawg football and act all ‘America and Apple Pie’ and such, while all the time supporting the most culturally Marxist, truly fascistic elements of our Nation, but not nearly to this extent.

    Color me intrigued.

    Liked by 4 people

    • gurkhadawg

      You got that right Smokeater. I’m not sure what’s going on. It could be the ongoing pussification of America, which started when David Lee Roth left Van Halen and was replace by Sammy Hagar. But it’s probably that a lot of folks here are afraid they will be rejected by the cool kids so they go along to get along. It’s nice to be at a place in life where you really don’t give a shit what the cool kids think.

      Liked by 3 people

    • PTC DAWG

      The Libs love this place.

      Liked by 1 person

    • RangerRuss

      Smokeater, the Senator has alluded to the fact that this board is more conservative than not and I take him at his word. The left is more outspoken as they find themselves outnumbered and they feel the need to interject their politics into discussions more vociferously even when it’s not appropriate. Some on the Right are guilty of the same transgressions, hence the need for the Playpen.
      The Right who initially engage the left in a war of words usually see the futility of arguing and their comments taper off to a few snide comments. Very few minds are changed and personally I have better things to do.
      Today’s left is fortunate they don’t have to deal with Georgia conservatives from the 1770s and ’80s. Those ol boys got tired of listening to their shit and started whacking them. 1777 conservative General McIntosh killed the radical Button Gwinnett in a duel. Conservative Joe Habersham killed radical Nate Hughes. In 1780 Conservative James Jackson killed radical George Wells and in 1782 a mob of pissed off, vengeful conservatives dragged former governor John Treutlen from his burning home and murdered him in front of his family. None of these killers were punished nor ostracized from society.
      All this happened in the midst of a shooting war when laws were vastly different. But people don’t really change, just the times. Folks would do well to remember to not let their alligator mouth overload their squirrely little ass.

      Liked by 1 person

  41. CB

    #JoJorgenson2020 boys you don’t have to vote for an old white sexual predator.

    Like

    • Smokeaterdawg316

      I’d rather make a difference than throwing my hat in for a lost cause.
      Mind you, I have nothing against libertarian ideas by and large, but it is a lost cause, and it culls important votes away from the party that CAN win.
      Yes, I know the ‘we gotta start somewhere’ argument is there, but it is too important right now to play with votes when the left is trying to destroy American culture whole cloth, IMHO.

      Liked by 1 person

      • CB

        That’s the same propaganda they put out every four years about third parties. Imo we’re at full saturation of the duopoly. Every vote for either Trump or Biden is effectively a wasted vote because regardless of who wins we’re gonna be eating the same shit sandwich for the next four years. If everyone who thought like you would vote libertarian then the libertarian candidate would win.

        Like

        • Derek

          Or finish third.

          The idea that libertarianism has a large enough audience in this country to win a presidential election is laughable.

          If they could poll at Perot numbers they be in the debate. They don’t because they don’t have sufficient public support.

          As someone who thinks they rob more GOP votes if the libertarians were viable, I’d like you to succeed.

          They aren’t mainly because they’re completely nuts.

          Like

          • CB

            Nah, you’re painting with too broad a brush. Most people are libertarians when it comes down to it. Don’t like paying taxes and want to be left alone by the government. Jorgenson needed to be polling at 15% to get on the debate stage, but she wasn’t included in the polls. It’s a completely rigged system. A vote for Biden or Trump = the same system either way. That should be clear at this point.

            Like

            • Derek

              On the surface maybe, but the left and the right are authoritarians at heart. Frankly I wish people were more sympathetic to libertarianism.

              But heres a thought experiment. If americans were really libertarians the first thing they’d think was complete bullshit are the drug laws. But they don’t.

              That should be the easiest win for libertarians and you can’t get off stop.

              You ain’t close dude. You’re not. And like I said, I’m pulling for you. The side I’m most sympathetic to would have the most to gain from your viability.

              Like

              • CB

                You’re combatting decades of propaganda when it comes to drug laws. It’s not an easy fix. I don’t think anyone is naive enough to think Jorgenson can win, but at this point it’s about gaining momentum for 2024 so we can actually create a viable option. The absolute worst/most self destructive thing we could do is continue to shrug our shoulders and say “maybe next time.”

                Like

                • Derek

                  Like I said, not my fight. I’d be for a democracy over ideology party way before I’d be pro-libertarianism.

                  I think the three existing ideologies are all bullshit. The right are closet nazis. The left are closet Stalinists. The libertarians are irrational. No one values the will of (informed) voters above all else. No one values empowering the middle class as being the surest way to prosperity and fairness.

                  We need to get back to first principles and stop acting like any political/economic theory is a sure fix for all that ills. They’re not. You need flexibility. Sometimes taxes are too high. Sometimes too low. The right and left will always disagree on that no matter the economic conditions of the day or the existing rates.

                  People need a system where all know hard work will pay off and where no one has unfair advantages due to their condition, financial or otherwise, at birth.

                  Until then I just vote for the lesser of the two evils. We’re far closer to 1938 Germany than 1918 St. Petersburg and have been since 1981.

                  That may change. And fast… If it does I will as well.

                  Like

                • CB

                  I don’t see things your way at all which is why I’m looking forward to voting their all the way down the ballot. You do you though.

                  Like

        • Smokeaterdawg316

          It may be propaganda from your perspective, but truth nonetheless.

          If there were enough support, then you would have the votes. But you do not have either, so it is irrelevant.

          It ain’t gonna happen just because you want it to. It has to have popular support (like the American Revolution did).
          Sorry bro. Not your enemy here, just an agent of reality.

          Like

          • CB

            It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s like the old adage whether you believe you can or believe you can’t you’re right either way. The reality is much of the US population is content to continue on living with their heads up their ass indefinitely while they vote Democrat or Republican against their own self interests.

            Not supporting something because it doesn’t have enough support is pretty stupid if you think about it for a few seconds. Why not give your support and then do your part to obtain more support? In this age of social media it doesn’t even take much effort.

            Like