Less fuel for the hindsight fire

Hmmm…

Maybe the coaches had their reasons to start Fromm in 2018.

99 Comments

Filed under Georgia Football, Stats Geek!

99 responses to “Less fuel for the hindsight fire

  1. mg4life0331

    Oh it was on target. It just required a contested backshoulder catch worthy of a espn highlight to make most of our 1st down conversions.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Or in 2017 Wimms to win far more than 50% of 50/50 balls. The law of averages caught up.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Only Georgia fans would try to twist that stat into a negative. I don’t understand this mentality. At all.

      Liked by 8 people

      • We graduated from a university that is in one of the most beautiful places on earth. We root for a team that succeeds more than it doesn’t. By a long shot. But we have so many people who wear Georgia gear and “root” for Georgia allegedly, but mostly tear it down. I do not and will not ever understand your type. I grew up in Tampa. My grandfather was an original season ticket-holder for the Bucs in 1974. They went 0-14, back when the season was 14 games. They’ve won two Super Bowls since, but there’s never a season they don’t believe or have hope. And some of the vitriol I see here is very much lacking. They are fans, short for fanatics. Georgia “fans” are largely cynics. Like we have the worldly view of a team that has won it all, many times. I don’t even know if we’ll enjoy winning it all, which we will, under CKS. Not like the Bucs did. It’s true what they say, we are an entitled fan-base.

        Liked by 9 people

      • PTC DAWG

        Agree…but there it is.

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      • Dawg19

        Rabe76:

        Only “faux” Georgia fans would try to twist that stat into a negative. It still amazes me how many people who call themselves Georgia fans sit around hating on Fromm every chance they get. Those people are truly miserable and are missing a great opportunity to be Tech fans. Move on, nitwits.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. miltondawg

    Wow. I didn’t realize that Hurts was that accurate in 2017. I didn’t watch a ton of his games with Bama that year, but I am surprised that he is on that list.

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    • ASEF

      Not being snarky when I say Jalen rarely threw to anyone more than 15 yards downfield unless the guy was wide-ass open. Jalen’s issue wasn’t accuracy. It was reluctance to risk turnovers, turning a lot of potentially explosive pass plays into short running plays.

      That list is two guys who went threw a ton of passes more than 15 yards downfield and two guys who threw those passes quite selectively.

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  3. I love this post. I would guess that sample sizes vary, but Fromm also knew he had thoroughbreds behind him in the backfield, and some bad-ass mother fuckers in front of him. What this suggests to me is
    – given the latitude he was afforded at the line of scrimmage to change plays – he put Georgia in a position to make a good play more often than not. I love that kid, and I wish the winds had blown such that we had his services for one more year. Fromm reminds me a lot of David Greene. We will appreciate him more over time.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. dawgphan34

    Man when things open back up I can’t wait to visit B-M and the see the spot where the trophy would be if they gave out trophies for things like highest on target rate for throws 15+ yards downfield.

    It’s the caring about the truly meaningless stats that makes being a UGA fan different.

    Liked by 2 people

    • After reading your comment, I think it’s the stupidity.

      Nobody’s talking about a trophy. Just that Fromm wasn’t all that bad in 2017. Sorry if that’s got your knickers in a wad.

      Liked by 9 people

      • Texas Dawg

        I think Fromm would be viewed totally differently had he played for an OC like Monken. What he had was a fair OC followed by a really really bad OC. From what we saw with receivers running wild and free last year, Fromm would have had a hay day. As it was, he had to be damn near perfect on every throw. The middle of the field was no man’s land and the defense had 1/2 of the field that it did not really need to worry about especially under Coley. It’s a lot easier to play defense when the offense basically concedes 1/2 the field.

        Liked by 6 people

      • David Basham

        “Just that Jake Fromm wasn’t all that bad in 2017.” Jesus freakin’ Christ. He was one blown coverage away from being the most heralded Freshman to play at UGA since #34. SMH. Approaching DawgVent level of knuckleheaded-ness around here these days.

        Liked by 7 people

    • Faltering Memory

      Atruly tacky comment.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Biggen

    It’s hard to believe that anyone with a brain cell could argue that Fields should have started over Fromm. Fields was a major “project”. Even at Ohio St he was mediocre save for a few games.

    Liked by 2 people

    • This is simply not true. The NFL Draft is going to prove that.

      Liked by 2 people

      • junkyardawg41

        JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf say hi. The draft doesn’t prove anything. If 5 years from now JF is the League MVP and has won a Super Bowl, I would say you have been proven right.

        Liked by 2 people

        • If Fromm ever takes a snap in a game I’ll be amazed.

          Liked by 4 people

        • ASEF

          Unless Fields is a raging drug addict, your two examples are kind of pointless.

          Fromm was only active this year because the Bills made the strategic decision to keep 3 QBs active, but one of them (Jake) separate from the entire team to avoid ending up QB-less if contact tracing wiped out the QB depth chart.

          Fields was and is an undeniable talent. Fromm was doing everything Kirby asked of him (which was kinda the rub, but certainly not Jake’s fault), so I get why Jake’s starter spot was secure.

          Liked by 3 people

          • RangerRuss

            In retrospect it’s clear that both Fromm and the Dawgs would have benefited greatly had Fromm returned for his senior year. It would ‘ve been fun to see him perform in Monken’s scheme with familiar receivers. I’m sure a lot of Jake’s issues were a result of the less than stellar offensive strategy of the former O coordinator.
            Then again the Dawgs might not have Daniels slinging it this season had Fromm come back. Got to always look for the bright side, Dawg fans!
            GATA

            Liked by 5 people

            • CB

              Fromm leaving after his junior year was the nail in the coffin for his downward trending legacy in Athens imo.

              Stetson Bennett has the far superior DGD status as far as I’m concerned.

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          • Biggen

            Fine. What about Brock Huard or Todd Blackledge. Getting drafted high isn’t an accomplishment in of itself.

            Fields has done nothing so far that Fromm hasn’t/didn’t. I’m not saying he won’t in the future, but Fromm was the right choice for the starting job.

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            • ASEF

              Uh, threw 6 TD passes against Clemson?

              Finished his career with a much higher passer rating than Jake?

              Rushed for over 1100 yards versus 40?

              You can appreciate the work Jake did without contorting yourself to pretend Fields is nothing special.

              Liked by 1 person

        • CB

          Russell and Leaf were drafted high because they were exceptional college players. The same will be true of Fields. All of the above are better than Jake Fromm.

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      • Biggen

        Hat did Fields accomplish that Fromm didn’t?

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    • CB

      This take is in no way defensible. Hindsight is 20/20, but hindsight proves definitively that Fields was the superior option.

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    • Migraine Boy

      I love how the narrative has shifted to “why would you start Fields over Fromm in 2018?”

      2018 wasn’t about that. It was about Throwing Fields out there in meaningless situations to hand the ball off “good as eff” and not showcasing what he could do to stave off a QB controversy.

      And topping it off by putting him as the point man in the worst play call in UGA history and throwing him under the bus postgame.

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  6. Texas Dawg

    Fields will go in the first round, but so did Ryan Leaf. We all remember where Tom Brady was taken and what he was accomplished. Fields may be in the Hall of Fame or he may be a bust. Time will tell. While it may be all smoke screens by teams trying to get him to drop to them, he draft stock is dropping (Google it and there are lots of recent articles). He was seen as the 2nd off the board after Goldilocks, but the latest projections have him as the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th QB taken. The “experts” have criticized him for staring down receivers, poor work ethic, and lack of real desire to be the best. It may all be bullshit, or they may actually see things without emotion. Time will tell.

    Liked by 1 person

    • CB

      None of that changes the fact that Fields is far superior to Fromm.

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      • Dawg19

        Yet, basically just as accomplished.

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        • CB

          But literally not as accomplished.

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          • Dawg19

            No national title, which is the hammer fake fans like you use to beat up Fromm every chance you get.

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            • CB

              Wrong. The argument is simply that Fields is better. Fromm damn sure wouldn’t have won a title at Ohio State, but Fields definitely would give Georgia a better chance to win it all because he is so obviously the superior talent.

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              • Lame. Can you imagine the mutiny if Kirby had benched Fromm? Just stop it with the arm-chair coaching. Fields ended up with the same number of NC’s as Fromm. Just stop it.

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                • CB

                  Who would have mutinied? Ben Cleveland and Charlie Woerner? 😂😂 They almost had an actual mutiny because everyone on the team knew Fields was a better player.

                  Plenty of great qb’s never won national championships in college. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Kyler Murray, Eli Manning. Are you prepared to make the case that none of them are better than Jake Fromm? Pull your head out of your ass and greet reality.

                  Also, Happy Easter.

                  Like

  7. CB

    Now do Fields

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    • Ummm… Fields didn’t have any 2017 statistics at UGA.

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      • CB

        He did in 2019. Hindsight kicked us in the nuts.

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        • And yet both he and Fromm got to the same point in the playoffs and lost. So, WGAS?

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          • CB

            Fields went to the playoff twice in two tries and was a Heisman finalist. Beat Clemson with damn near broke ribs, and he’s about to be a first round draft pick. No comparison.

            Liked by 1 person

            • And so what? He left. Congratulations on your almost Heisman and almost playoff wins. His first playoff appearance ended with him throwing an interception that cost his team the semi-final game, and his second appearance was punctuated by a running back taking over the game.

              So, yeah, WGAS?

              Liked by 1 person

              • CB

                Fields is a much better quarterback than Jake Fromm. Period. He accomplished more in college and would have given Georgia a better chance to win a title instead of whatever the hell we put out there on offense in 2019 and early 2020. That’s all that should matter to anyone.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Dawg19

                  Fields couldn’t win a national championship while surrounded by 5-stars at Ohio State but…yeah…he definitely would have won the title at Georgia!! I just know it!!

                  Like

                • CB

                  Fields’ production in the playoffs dwarfs Fromm’s, so he’d have given us a better chance is all I’m saying. We have one or two 5 stars ourselves. Fields is the better football player. Deal with it.

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                • Dawg19

                  I bet Ohio State fans can’t wait to get their picture taken with Fields’ “Better production in the playoffs than Fromm” trophy.

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                • CB

                  Feel free to criticize the fact that Fields wasn’t good enough to win it all at tOSU. You’ll get no pushback from me because that was never the discussion. What you’re not going to do is get away with the moronic notion that going with Fromm was the right move. But you already knew that which is why you’re trying to displace those goalposts.

                  Believe it or not we can look back on the decision and understand the thought process and also acknowledge that the wrong conclusion was reached.

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                • CB

                  Circling back where can I go to get my picture taken with the Fromm “underwhelming in his only playoff appearance” trophy?

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  8. NotMyCrossToBear

    I hate to name call but anyone that thinks Fields should have, or was ready to, start over Fromm in 2018 is a fucking idiot.

    Liked by 2 people

    • CB

      I have a feeling Georgia’s entire coaching staff feels that way looking back. Carry on though.

      Like

      • NotMyCrossToBear

        Dude you’re missing the whole point. Monday morning quarterbacking is a fools game. No way in hell they would have started Fromm if Fields was a better option AT THE TIME.

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        • CB

          They started DWan Mathis when Stetson Bennett was the better option AT THE TIME. Saban started Hurts when Tua was the better option AT THE TIME. Coaches are the most qualified to make these calls, but they aren’t always right. Hell, Monken just this past year waxed about regrets when asked about not starting JT Daniels earlier in Jacksonville.

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          • NotMyCrossToBear

            Thank you for proving my point. Carry on.

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            • CB

              I guess your point wasn’t clear. So you agree Fields was better?

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              • Dawg19

                Apparently, CB decided to clear his mind of Fields’ play against Auburn and Tech in 2018 where he played a majority of the snaps in the second half and managed zero points in both games. Go back and watch it. He was pedestrian, at best. No way he was going to lead us to a national title that year.

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                • CB

                  Fields completed 4 of his combined 5 passing attempts in those two games and finished the 2018 season with a higher qb rating than Fromm. 😂😂

                  Carry on.

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              • NotMyCrossToBear

                Good god, he wasn’t better in 2018. That’s the point.

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                • CB

                  How could you know that? Did he magically get better a few months after moving to Ohio. That doesn’t make sense dude.

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                • NotMyCrossToBear

                  What doesn’t make sense is a coach risking a season and his job by starting the QB who wasn’t the better player. If you think Fields was better in 2018 and Kirby started Fromm anyway I can’t help you. “fin”

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                • CB

                  Stetson Bennett was better than Mathis in 2020 right? Who started game 1? The wrong guy. JT Daniels was better than Bennett right? Who started in Jax? The wrong guy. Coaches don’t always get it right.

                  Even if you could make the case that Fromm was definitively better than Fields in 2018 (you can’t), it’s undeniable that going forward Fields would have been the better option for the future of the program.

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                • You talk like Fromm was mediocre in 2018. He was fifth nationally in passer rating.

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                • CB

                  I was Fromm’s biggest defender until after the 2019 season ended. Fromm was good Fields was clearly better.

                  I’ve said this before but you could make the case that Fromm going to Bama would have been the best thing for Georgia football. Could have kept Tua out of Tuscaloosa, and Eason hands the program over to Fields who would have been more likely to stick around given the additional gap year between himself and Eason.

                  Like

                • If you’re posing a hypothetical suggesting Fromm should have been benched in favor of Fields during the 2019 season, well, that’s a different discussion and one perhaps worth having.

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                • CB

                  With the luxury of hindsight I’d move Fields’ hypothetical start date to Jacksonville 2018 if not the beginning of the second half in Baton Rouge, and keep it going through 2019.

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                • Stetson Bennett was better than Mathis in 2020 right? Who started game 1? The wrong guy. JT Daniels was better than Bennett right? Who started in Jax? The wrong guy. Coaches don’t always get it right.

                  Exactly! That’s what we have blog commenters for.

                  It’s a shame Kirby doesn’t hire the lot of you as offensive analysts.

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                • CB

                  Don’t be dramatic. I’m simply pointing out that coaches, while the most qualified to make the call, don’t always make the right call.

                  We have clear evidence of that in Athens. Us commenters have the advantage of hindsight which can be useful tool in evaluating mistakes. With all the 5 star qb’s set to be in Athens over the next few years I hope Kirby has modified his approach.

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                • 2020 is the mother of all outliers, especially for Georgia football. New offensive coordinator, Newman bails and no spring practice — but, sure, let’s use that as a universal proof.

                  I get that you think Fromm should have been benched to save Fields at Georgia. You should get that you’re not convincing anyone else here.

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                • CB

                  I don’t think you need me to list ad nauseum all the times coaches started the inferior qb do you? (Ahem Hurts over Tua in 2017). I’m not here to change minds, I’m just pointing out that in hindsight benching Fromm was the right move. People are free to continue on being wrong if they wish. Hell, I was wrong for the entirety of the 2019 season. I was hoping Fields would be a bust and I couldn’t be convinced otherwise regardless of how dominant he was that year. Reality finally set in last season. Maybe it was Fromm’s early departure (it definitely needs to be factored in that his absence in 2020 left us in the lurch, all so he could go ride the pine as a late round draft pick).

                  Here’s a hypothetical. Imagine Kirby woke up and was groundhog dayed back to August 2018, you really don’t think he’d bench Fromm for Fields knowing what he knows now? If not game 1 there is not a doubt in my mind he pulls the trigger at some point that season. I can’t think any reasonable justification to think otherwise. Especially knowing that they will both be three and out players.

                  Like

  9. Illini84

    Oh boy wait till the “this is my team” guy wakes up.

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  10. Saw a story on the Athletic about total yards per play (YPP) comparisons yesterday – an efficiency stat. With all the caveats one must take with only playing 4 games against the teams he did, etc., the returning QB with the best YPP is J.T. Daniels, who averaged 8.9 YPP last year. The returning leader last year was Mac Jones.

    Like

  11. gurkhadawg

    I don’t see how any Dawg fan can criticize 2017 Fromm. Do y’all remember the magic of that year. Sure he had 2 of the greatest RB’s to play college football, but the guy was a true freshman who nobody thought would start in 2017. He took us within one play of a NC. Except for 1980 he led us to the greatest UGA football season during my lifetime. ( that’s a pretty long time). Fromm will always be OK in my book.

    Liked by 6 people

    • akascuba

      Totally agree a true freshmen pulled off the bench tossed into the fire. Did everything asked of him to win a NC.

      2017 was my greatest year as a fan from traveling to ND and winning that alone was a life long memory. Next up the revenge game to win the SEC championship. Now onto the best road game of my life the Rose Bowl. Jake did his job every time called to. Yeah Chubb and Micheal were beasts and Spec’s big kick before the half were all part of the many things needed to seal that win. I’ll never forget Roquan Smith’s game saving in OT stonewalling tackle on third down forcing a field goal allowing the game to go on. That tackle seems to have been forgotten with time. I don’t ever remember a defender hitting a RB in full stride like that. It was just perfect form tackle no chance he would fail he was a man on a mission in OT. Roquan didn’t give an inch on contact and drove him backwards. Greatest tackle I ever saw including Pollack’s strip sack touchdown in the rain game in Columbia. That play maybe more amazing for many reasons. It was not at that moment a play keeping our chance at a NC alive when in the moment it appeared first down near the 10 was about to happen unto Roquan flew into view.

      I’ll never forget the celebration after we won THE ROSE Bowl never thought I’d ever live long enough to see that. Yeah I was actually still celebrating with the people around us the NC and missed live seeing the 2 and 26 pass. I was so sure after the sack our wait was over the win was ours. Jake did his part to make that magical season possible. I’ll always have great memories of a humble kid right out of high school playing well enough to win it all.

      Liked by 3 people

  12. None of these folks who bash Jake now were saying at any time during the 2018 season that Fields should be the starter. Should Fields have taken more meaningful snaps in games we won comfortably? Yes. Should Fields have been given a chance to see what he could do like Tua in the LSU game when Jake struggled? Yes. Did Jake bring us as close to a national title as we’ve been since 1982? Yes. Did Jake outplay Tua in the SEC championship game a year later? Yes.

    Fields left because he didn’t think he would have a chance to beat out Jake in 2019 and that Jake was planning to stay 4 years. That’s the bottom line.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. Just how much time has to pass before yall will ne done with this? Fromm didn’t play at UGA in 2020 and Fields left years ago. Nobody’s opinion is changing in any direction.

    The horse isn’t just dead, the horse is used glue

    Liked by 2 people