David Climer’s advice to Mark Richt might resonate a little bit more if he got all of his facts straight.
Judging from what has happened this year, including the debacle at Tennessee last Saturday, Richt made a mistake when he elevated Willie Martinez to defensive coordinator two years ago.
Get The Picture 
Someone please refresh my memory as to the situation surrounding BVG’s leaving and WM’s promotion.
I seem to recall that BVG wanted to be assistant HC, ie more power, and Richt refused therefore prompting BVG to head to Statesboro.
Is this at all correct? Any other details?
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Yeah, BVG is a Nomad. You guys that believe that there’s some way he could have still been at UGA are being silly.
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Of course I realize that BVG is never coming back. But does not mean we have to retain CWM at the end of the season.
I want CMR to go find another talented DC like he did when took over the program in 2001. –remember that no name DC he hired from Western Illinois?
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Actually, BVG left to be LB coach for the Jax Jaguars for one year in 2005. Then, he took Georgia Southern for a nose dive in 2006 before joining the Falcons in 2007 as LB coach. In 2008, under Mike Smith, he took the reins as DC.
Why he left UGA to begin with, I can only speculate. I’m sure people much smarter than I know that answer.
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I think BVG went to the NFL to be a LB coach at Jacksonville for a year before he took over in Statesboro. That lasted a year, then he went to the Falcons, then he took the USC job for a day, then he went back to the Falcons when the current coach hired him back as DC.
As for the backstory, I think we were all a little surprised when BVG left and it wasn’t for a head coaching job at a Div. I school. Heard he and Richt did not get along, but I have no idea why. Maybe someone else can clarify it for you.
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Sorry, SCDawg. I think I just repeated what you already posted.
Uh, my bad.
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The reply button is new to me, probably should have used it.
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I think most of us have missed what is most important in this discussion: If Mike Smith had not been named the Falcons’ coach, BVG would have been eastbound on I-20, and we would have probably lost the SC game last year and sitting at 2-4 now.
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Wowzers, I nearly forgot that BVG was DC for Spurrier for like a month. That would have suuuuucked.
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I am not close to the program now but was at the time of BVG’s departure. You are right in the fact that someone didn’t get along with him. I was told it wasn’t Richt, it was Garner who couldn’t get along with him. He didn’t like the way BVG held him accountable for the mistakes his players made. Garner eventually gave CMR the ultimatum leading to BVG’s exit.
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Am I reading this wrong or did he also mistakenly write that Richt is the head coach at Florida?
“Many of the same problems that led to Fulmer’s dismissal at UT seem to be catching up to Richt at Florida.”
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Yep. To Climer, Georgia, Florida, what’s the difference? To him, time will only tell and by then another two years will be gone but then again time does move more slowly at The Tennessean than elsewhere. Climer’s almost as precise as columnist Andy Hall, I think, from an Arkansas paper on SEC intricacies.
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I have always heard that BVG gave Richt an ultimatum about it was either him or Gardner and Richt called his bluff. Probably just speculation though. I do know that Gardner is going to hold our program hostage for the DC position if Willie gets canned.
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For the billionth time, (not just at you,) it is Garner. There is no D.
Boy was that ever prophetic.
Let him walk.
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I like what you did there. “No D.” That’s a riot.
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Those of us who misspell Rodney’s last name do so not only because we don’t know how to spell but also because the D line play this year has been a mystery like an Earle Stanley Gardner pulp fiction novel.
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After digesting all of what we’ve witnessed over the last serveral years, I think that I might have hit on what the problem is. Our offensive and defensive systems are predicated on having better, more conditioned players than our opponents. We are very vanilla and predictable on both sides of the ball and we say: this is what we do can you stop it? This approach builds continuity because you aren’t changing your identity week to week and you aren’t over complicating things, you are just asking your players to make plays.
What happens though when your opponents match up with you in talent? What happens when your talent is depleted by injuries or players who just don’t pan out? Things turn ugly. The adjustment of the coaches seems to be to cover up for the areas of concern by playing more vanilla and more predictable and thus things get even uglier.
One of two things is going to happen. Our talent will improve at QB, the O-line, RB and the defensive backfield or not and Richt’s future hangs in the balance, or we going to have to bring in new coordinators with fresh ideas. While it is possible that the current coaching staff will try some different things, I really doubt that they will get out of their own comfort zones.
While there are some who might say that with our recruiting rankings the talent hasn’t diminished. However, all one has to do is look at what the NFL thinks of our defensive talent to see that it simply isn’t the case. We haven’t had Thomas Davis’ and Odell Thurman’s and David Pollack’s and Jonathan Sullivan’s and Sean Jones’ and on and on, in a while. Ellerbe and Battle and Kelin Johnson and Bryan Evans and Reshad Jones etc… are just not the same level of player that we had from 2001-2005. In fact, lesser thought of players like Johnson and walk-on Battle way out performed the much more highly thought of Jones and Evans.
I think that Richt understands this which is why he hasn’t pulled the trigger on Martinez, yet. He knows that he’s short-handed and has been for a while. Whether a change is made in the off-season I think will depend largely on what Richt thinks our talent level will be in 2010.
The questions to ponder are: how are we going to look at DT when Weston, Atkins and Owens are gone. We know Baccarri will be a step up from Evans but who takes Rashad’s spot? Is Murray the stud we all hope he’ll be? Is the OL struggling because Jones is playing hurt and has no reliable back-up? Will one or more of the backs become a real SEC level RB?
If these questions don’t have favorable answers, I think we will see wholesale changes at the end of the year. For if the future doesn’t suggest that our talent will be superior to, or at least competitive with, UF, Bama, LSU, or UT it will not make any sense to keep on the current path. Furthermore, fans may have more patience with Richt even if the results don’t improve in the short term because it will be clear that we are trying something different. I don’t think CMR survives to 2011 with the same results with the same staff and I think he knows that.
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So if we can just get 1st round NFL calibre players starting at every position on the UGA defense (who are also better conditioned than our opponents), CWM’s defensive approach will work? –I sure feel better now.
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Or you can assume that less talent equals similar results and just be wrong. I’m not suggesting that we need 1st round draft picks at every position, but I am pointing out that we had a lot of those from 2001-2005 and none since and the results can be traced as much to a dimunition of talent as a change in coaches. If you don’t believe me go back and look at the depth charts for 2001-2005 vs. 2006-2009. You can not make a reasonable argument that the talent level is the same. Their ratings out of HS might be, but the quality as college players are not even close. To suggest that lesser players will have similar results in the same system is simply asinine.
I am also suggesting that the scheme that BVG ran and what CWM runs are exactly the same. What the talent that BVG allowed him to do was to be more aggressive knowing that his corners and safeties wouldn’t get thrashed and the front 4 would generate pressure on 1st and 2nd downs. CMW hasn’t trusted his DB’s in a very long time and he tries to overcome their weaknesses by trying to make their jobs easier. I fear that is what undermines the confidence of the defense. Schematically it is sound but the players just meet the coaches very low expectations by playing down to them. My suggestion is to flip that and put more pressure on the guys rather than less and see who steps up and who doesn’t. I just don’t think that our staff has it in them to let the team sink or swim. Their logic likely is that what we have been doing almost got us to 5-0 (take away to’s and poor officiating and its justifiable to conclude that we were close to starting out 5-0), so lets see if we can finish out 4-1 doing the same old stuff. The problem is that if we don’t 1) change what we do or 2) increase our talent level at key spots, we’ll be back here again next year seemingly out of the SEC East race in early Oct., even if we are lucky enough to finish 4-1.
Say what you will but there are DC’s who are good with bad talent and DC who are good with great talent. I think that CMW falls in to the later category. Joe Kines on the other hand could take the worst looking defense in the world and make it servicable and then take a talented D and make it mediocre. Why? Because Joe Kines likes to stop the run, play corners off the line and rarely blitz thereby making the offense earn everything they get, while our scheme is made to be aggressive but is equipped with bend but don’t break talent.
If you think that if CMW started coaching UF’s defense tomorrow that they’d fall on their face you’d be wrong. If you think that Joe Kines would do anything but screw that team up you’d be wrong too. If Charlie Strong came to UGA and called the same defenses that he calls for UF, who knows what would happen? We might get better and we might get killed. Would our corners cover because they are out on an island? I don’t know what a more agressive approach would result in, but it can’t get much worse than what we’ve got.
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If CWM took over as DC at UF, you would see an erosion of the gators defense. No doubt about it. It might take a few weeks for UF to forget how to tackle and cover but it would happen. There are a lot of teams excelling on defense with less talent than UGA. UT and Alabama in 2008 are examples.
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You are out of your mind if you think that we have better defensive talent than Bama. They have 2 1st rounders right off the top of my head in McClain and that human building that plays NG. What guy on our team do you take in the 1st round if you are a NFL GM?
As a group, you might say that we are better than UT, but Eric Berry allows them to do a lot of creative things and we have two safeties who can’t do the basics.
Our front seven isn’t the problem. Its the back four that are killing us. You can say that our DT’s are good, our DE’s adequate and our LB’s while thin are servicable, but our DB’s a friggin’ pathetic. If you know of a top-tier SEC team with a worse set of DB’s I’d like to know who they are. When your back 4 can’t cover, can’t tackle and can’t make plays on the ball that will off set your strengths. For example, we have a decent set of WR’s, but our TB’s and OL are worthless making the WR’s close to just as worthless.
Give me Tim Jennings, Thomas Davis, Greg Blue and Paul Oliver and I guarantee the defense completely turns around.
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Asher Allen, Corey Irvin were 3rd round NFL picks last year. Jarious wynn was taken in the sixth round. Ellerbe signed with the ravens and is starting for them already. 4 NFL players on our 2008 squad that surrendered 42 tds and was above only Arkansas and MSU in the SEC. Talent is not the problem.
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Here is Ellerbe’s official Ravens Bio:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Players/Active/Dannell_Ellerbe.aspx
He has no starts and has played in 2 of 5 games. I know you want to live in a fact-free world, but with this here internet you can’t get away with BS.
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You are WRONG. Ellerbe has at least two starts for the Ravens. I said he was starting, and I am right. Try searching his name in a google news search rather than looking at box scores.
Rotoworld
Dannell Ellerbe: Ellerbe will remain Ravens starting ILB
Dannell Ellerbe – LB – BAL – Oct. 10 – 12:36 pm et
Ravens ILB Dannell Ellerbe will continue to start in place of Tavares Gooden even though Gooden is completely over the concussion that kept him out of Week 4.
Expect this to be a rotation between Ellerbe, Gooden and Jameel McLain. Ellerbe made his first career start last week and impressed the coaches enough to draw another start. He made six tackles in the loss to the Patriots. Oct. 10 – 12:36 pm et
Source: Carroll County Times
Baltimore Sun
Post-game observations
Baltimore Sun – Oct 4, 2009
Rookie linebacker Dannell Ellerbe made his first start in place of Tavares Gooden, and the kid played well. Ellerbe is a force going forward even though he isn’t much in pass coverage. The kid is a bull.
Derek, you are alone on an island if you think CWM should remain DC. I just hope you are not secretly Mark Richt posting as Derek.
It was obvious to me as early as the loss to Auburn at home in 2005 that CWM was a downgrade over BVG. We went from great, to respectable, to mediocre, and have not progressed to terrible in his 5th season. At this point, i would settle for mediocre.
Maybe we should get the DC from Gardner-Webb to tutor CWM before the Tech game. They held GT to 10 points last year in a 10-7 loss. But I guess Gardner-Webb has better players.
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I know the press is always right, but the Ravens Official site disagrees. This is a breakdown of his career at Baltimore per the Ravens official site that also posts a depth chart showing Ellerbe second string:
2009: Game 5 vs. Cin. (10/11): Posted 2 solo special teams tackles against the Bengals.
Game 4 at NE (10/4): Played in his 1st-career NFL game, netting 6 tackles as part of a defense that held the Patriots to 2.8 yards per rush and 40% on 3rd-down conversions.
Game 3 vs. Cle. (9/27): Was a game-day inactive in the 34-3 victory.
Game 2 at SD (9/20): Listed as a game-day inactive in the 31-26 win.
Game 1 vs. KC (9/13): Was a game-day inactive in the 38-24 win.
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Where does it say that Ellerbe did not start game 4?
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Go to the web site. It says that he has played in two and started zero games. I provided the link, click it.
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BTW: I have not said that CWM should remain as DC. I simply gave an analysis of what the issue is and what CMR might be thinking. If you want my opinion, it seems to me that we may want to make a serious run at Kirby Smart and run a 3-4 next year. We are getting thin at DT in 2010 and our ends may be able to handle the extra pressure that comes with playing a 3-4. In addition it seems that we have an abundance of linebackers. Because I don’t see our D talent level suddenly sky-rocketing in 2010, I want to see either 1) CWM show me that he can do more with less the rest of this season, bench Reshad and Evans and Miller if necessary, and attack, attack, attack even if we get burnt. We have to find a way of being the hammer rather than the nail by any means necessary. I want to see a kill or be killed mentality. I want to see defensive confidence and a defensive swagger. Frankly I don’t care if we look like Miami in the early 90’s getting flagged for late hits all the time. We can worry about easing it back later. I want to see the other teams QB play with the uncertainty that Monte put in Cox’s head Saturday. In short, I want our defense almost elated that we’ve turned the ball over again because they get to him someone immediately. Or, barring that, I’d like to start with an entirely new defensive staff. Hire a top-flight DC, let him pick his guys and move on. CMR might want to hire a special teams coach as well.
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We finally agree.
Until this season, my knock on CWM was that we collapsed defensively a couple times a year and that it would be difficult to ever win a title b/c of those collapses. For example, we would have played for the BCS title in 2007 but for the 35-14 loss to the Vols– we got down so early in that game. 28-0 at the half.
I never thought we were terrible every game with CWM. I give him credit for trouncing LSU in 2005 for the SEC title.
But the 30 point games and inconsistency is too common.
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In my opinion, our defensive woes are not attributable to lack of talent or even poor schemes. I really think the following excerpt from an old article sheds light on our current problems.
“ATHENS, Ga. — It doesn’t require a great deal of technical football knowledge to see the difference in the Georgia defense in the last few weeks.
Is Georgia tackling better?
“I don’t think there’s any doubt about it,’’ said defensive coordinator Brian VanGorder.
VanGorder said he and the other defensive assistants discussed the decline in missed tackles in meetings Monday.
“The missed tackles between Florida compared to the last two weeks are dramatically different,’’ said VanGorder, who wouldn’t release any numbers on missed tackles. “Poor tackling is a cancer on defense and we’ve been able to do better in that area.’’
The last two weeks were the best efforts in consecutive games and have provided encouragement that the players have become more comfortable with VanGorder’s defense and what he demands of players.
The key to improved play has been improved practice.
“What you see out there is how we prepare in practice,’’ said senior rover Jermaine Phillips. “I think it’s the way we are practicing that’s made the biggest difference.’’
Now when VanGorder sends in a play, each player on defense has a better grasp of his responsibility.
“I think everybody knows now what to do and what their assignment is,’’ Phillips said.
Said VanGorder: “As coaches, it has definitely been a big part of our mission statement to create a tempo in practice that carries over into the game.’’
Coach Mark Richt is especially happy with the way VanGorder has devised schemes to combat the opponent’s strength.
“That’s about what I was expecting from Coach VanGorder when I hired him,’’ Richt said. “He’s not a guy who’s gonna put a cookie-cutter defense out there. He does a great job, he along with our staff, of really dissecting what teams will do and taking away what they do best.’’
The defensive line is left with very little depth, but still the plan is to have another week of physical practices.
“That is a tough thing in making that decision,’’ VanGorder said. “That tempo issue is so important, you don’t want to lose that edge.’’
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Interesting. Is this right before the Tech game Richt’s first season?
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yeah, 2001. –the season that we lost David Jacobs and Bruce Adrine to season-ending injuries–yet still managed to improve each week.
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The public story when Van Gorder left was that his career goal was an NFL head coaching job, and becoming a position coach on a pro team was the first step. Sounds reasonable to me, as he took a step down going from college coordinator to pro position coach.
Why isn’t he a pro coach yet? Well, things don’t always work out like you plan (duh on myself for that one).
Richt plucked Van Gorder from a mid level school (UCF I think) in Florida with no resume, so Richt can make some good judgments.
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Hogbody remembers it the way that I do. BVG said that he would have a better shot at becoming a Pro HC from within the pro ranks, rather than make the jump from college DC or HC to the pros. But I could be wrong.
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Here are the active Dogs in the league. Count how many played from 2006-2008. Among those which were undrafted free agents or are making little or no contribution. Now look at those who played from 2001-2005 and add Odell and Pollock who are out for extraneous reasons and then compare. If you think the talent has remained the same you just don’t care about facts.
Asher Allen, CB, Minnesota Vikings
Not active in the 38-10 win at St. Louis
Champ Bailey, CB, Denver Broncos
Started at LCB, and had two tackles and a pass break-up in the 20-17 win over New England
Chrs Clemons, DE, Philadelphia Eagles
Played but did not record any stats in the 33-14 win at Tampa Bay
Phillip Daniels, DE, Washington Redskins
Started at DE, and had three tackles and a QB hurry in the 20-17 loss at Carolina
Thomas Davis, LB, Carolina Panthers
Started at LB, and had six tackles, two for a loss, a QB hurry and a pass break-up in the 20-17 win over Washington
Dannell Ellerbe, LB, Baltimore Ravens
Played but did not record any stats in the 17-14 loss to Cincinnati
Demetric Evans, DE, San Francisco 49ers
Had two tackles in the 45-10 loss to Atlanta
Jason Ferguson, DT, Miami Dolphins
Started at DT, and had two tackles for loss in the 31-27 win over the New York Jets
Robert Geathers, DE, Cincinnati Browns
Started at LDE, and had two tackles, one for a loss, and a QB hurry in the 17-14 win at Baltimore
Tony Gilbert, LB, Atlanta Falcons
Had two tackles and a forced fumble in the 45-10 win at San Francisco
Kedric Golston, DT, Washington Redskins
Had three tackles and a forced fumble in the 20-17 loss at Carolina
Charles Grant, DE, New Orleans Saints
Bye
Arnold Harrison, LB, Pittsburgh Steelers
Had one tackle in the 28-20 win at Detroit
Tim Jennings, CB, Indianapolis Colts
Had five tackles and an interception in the 31-9 win at Tennessee
Charles Johnson, DE, Carolina Panthers
Had one tackle in the 20-17 win over Washington
Sean Jones, FS, Philadelphia Eagles
Had one tackle in the 33-14 win at Tampa Bay
Quentin Moses, LB, Miami Dolphins
Not active in the 31-27 win over the New York Jets
Paul Oliver, CB, San Diego Chargers
Bye
Richard Seymour, DE, Oakland Raiders
Started at DE, and had two tackles in the 44-7 loss at the New York Giants
Marcus Stroud, DT, Buffalo Bills
Started at LT, and had nine tackles in the 6-3 loss to Cleveland
Will Witherspoon, LB, St. Louis Rams
Started at WLB, and had five tackles in the 38-10 loss to Minnesota
Jarius Wynn, DE, Green Bay
Bye
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The other conclusion you can draw is that we’re not developing the talent that we’re recruiting. I take the recruiting rankings with a grain of salt, but the concensus is still that we’re getting good kids at Georgia. Since 2005, it doesn’t seem like we’re doing as good a job at making them better.
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“Here are the active Dogs in the league”
You may need to reevaluate your list there buddy.
What does that fragment mean after the second sentence?
Some people just don’t care about facts, or legible english.
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Dan,
Let me break it down so that you can understand, keeping in mind that only you will need the help:
“Here are the active Dogs in the league.” This sentence suggests that to follow will be a list. That list will include players. The players will be those who are in the “league.” Those players in the league are Dogs meaning they once played for Georgia. The league references the National Football League.
“Count how many played from 2006-2008.” What this sentence is directing the reader to do is to identify those players who are in the league who used to play for Georgia and did that playing between 2006-2008.
As far as “re-evaluating” the list, it is THE list meaning these are ALL of the defensive players who played at Georgia and are curently in the league. The only re-evaluation that might be needed should be conducted by your parents as I am sure by now they have figured out that pulling out and blowing you on the wall would have been the better course.
Good luck with the English comprehension portion of the GED.
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Very clever. Looks like you had a full day today. Congratulations.
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Dear Derek,
Do you see that first group of words you typed with a period behind it. That’s a sentence. That second group of words with a period behind it is also a sentence. The thing after the second sentence I was referring to is, ” Among those which were undrafted free agents or are making little or no contribution.”
Since I clearly stated I meant that I didn’t understand the line after the second sentence, I can only assume it is your ability to count that is questionable. Let me help you. Here is a basic sequence of numbers: 1,2,3,4,5. That number after 2 is 3. Now, when you count to two, you will know what comes after 2. I hope that helps.
My bad on misunderstanding your list of defensive players in the league. Since you said active dogs in the league, I assumed you meant Georgia players. With a cursory glance, I didn’t really notice that you meant defensive players. Maybe it would help if you type what you mean.
Good job on the seventh grade level insults though.
See you in Nashville.
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It was at least a college level insult. Or at least that’s where I was when one of my dorm mates said his father told him that he “should have shot him on the wall.”
Anyway, the third sentence was little unclear. Not unclear enough to comment on, but unclear. And I did not indicate that it was only defensive players, but there were only defensive players on the list. Its tought to blog and work, I’ll try harder to do less of the latter in the future.
I do note that no one has taken the position that the list does not illustrate a serious drop off in defensive talent at UGA since 2006 which was the point I was making. It may not be a fact many want to accept because it sounds like you are being a CWM apologist, but facts are stubborn things. I do think that the team is under achieving even with the talent we do have and I tried to analyze why that was and suggest solutions thereto.
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I apologize. I was wrong to pick a fight for no reason. I’m a little extra po’d this week.
I’m not a CWM apologist by any stretch. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
Go Dawgs!
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I spoke with BVG when he moved his family to Jax. He had nothing but the highest compliments for Richt and loved UGA; but, he wanted to be a college head coach and felt time in the NFL would hasten the opportunity. He didn’t want to live a life of “what ifs”. He is a wonderful man, has a wonderful family, and even brought me some UGA memorabilia–including a personally autographed photo from Richt. He, like Richt, is a devoutly Christian man. Personally, I would love to see him back between the hedges.
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