As Brandon Larrabee notes, Stewart Mandel has done a good job of tracking the comments of selection committee chairman Jeff Long as he tries to explain the weekly results coming out of his group. Unfortunately, all that winds up doing is setting off everyone’s bullshit detectors.
Most of the controversy this week came not from the rankings themselves, but how Arkansas AD and selection committee chairman Jeff Long explained those rankings — in particular, his explanation for Mississippi State remaining at No. 4. To be clear: I personally would love Mississippi State in the playoffs, because as a South Carolina fan, I have a soft spot for non-traditional powers. And there are some defensible cases you can make for Mississippi State being in the Top 4. This is not one of them.
Jeff Long just said the committee takes into account that some of Mississippi State’s wins came agains teams previously ranked.— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) November 26, 2014
We can have a dispute about how bad an idea it is to take rankings at the time into account — I happen to think very — but that’s not the biggest problem here. The biggest problem here is that, aside from Alabama (which beat Mississippi State), the Bulldogs have not played a formerly ranked team since the first playoff rankings came out. That means that the only way rankings at the time could count would be if the committee were considering someone else’s rankings. Which means that this …
Long: “To clarify, when I refer to ‘ranked,’ I mean CFP-ranked.” So, nothing pre-Oct. 28.
— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) November 26, 2014
… is either a lie or irrelevant to the discussion of Mississippi State’s strength of schedule. Of course, you might also want to consider another statement from the committee.
Long specifics that they consider a “bad” loss as one to a sub-.500 team. Said doesn’t necessarily agree with Ohio St-Va Tech as an example.
— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) November 26, 2014
Hoo, boy. I guess some bad losses aren’t as bad as others. Jim Delany is no doubt relieved to hear that.
Then there’s the way the committee evaluates strength of schedule. Let Dave Bartoo explain, again, with a little help from Mandel:
However, the committee notes that they use their SOS to rank teams. It is not any of the public SOS ranks folks reference, in fact, as it would turn out, they do not use an SOS ranking. They just call their averaging an SOS ranking.
Noted Selection Committee expert, Stewart Mandel tweeted out the following below today about the committee’s ‘SOS rankings’. This is basically an in-season version of the commonly referred to NCAA pre-season strength of schedule rankings. The committee takes it a step further and considers the winning percentage of the opponents of a team’s opponents on their schedule. An example of this, for Auburn. is in the little chart to the right.
Committee doesn’t use an SOS ranking. It looks at opponents’ record and opponents’ opponents record.
— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) November 12, 2014
Stewart further advised me that for FCS teams, only the loses count against the composite opponent record. So if Presbyterian has four loses and four wins, only the losses are added to the composite record of opponents for Ole Miss. So if you end up beating an FCS team that goes 11-1, you are only dinged for the one loss by that FCS opponent. That is weak and a minor penalty at best. These FCS games are locks, cupcakes, gimmes, body bag games. There is no strength in any of these games so I took it upon myself to count each game played by an FCS opponent against the FBS team that put it on the schedule. If you want to make a change and truly account for the ease of these games, hit it hard.
There are, I suppose, a couple of ways of looking at this. One is that the selection committee is simply fumbling around with stats and analysis for which it really doesn’t have a grasp of their relevance. The other is that you’ve got a bunch of monkeys flinging poo against the wall with the expectation that we’ll be so distracted by the exercise that we won’t pay attention to how they arrive at the final destination of the semi-finals pool.
Either way, it’s not a confidence builder. And if we’re not confident in how the committee decides which schools are in, there’s only going to be one way to cure that fever. More cowbell Bracket creep. Lather. Rinse. Repeat… as long as there’s shampoo in the bottle, anyway.
Hooray! UF has a winning record! It’s not a bad loss anymore. CFP – here we come!
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I was thinking the same thing ha.
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Same with South Carolina–bowl eligible! It’s not a bad loss anymore.
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I understand doubts about MSU being rated in the top 8 and hope Ole Miss can remove them from the discussion, unless they win the SEC title. But the Committee’s rankings are no better/worse than others. Truth is, rankings for every year in history have been suspect and impossible to sell universally. We will never know who is the best, for 2014 and all years previous, we can only know who wins the title on the field when, and if, we get to a playoff of champions.
I would be thrilled to see UGA win an SEC title this year, it wouldn’t prove UGA is the best team in the SEC, but the title would not be disputed. Need to get this same mindset when discussing the NC title. Too many think it is about being “the best” and it leads to all these arguments.
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Because that’s how it’s sold to us, Mac.
Although I suppose once it goes to eight, they’ll sell further expansion as “fair”. Sigh.
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I don’t know where the interpretation comes from that ANY system will identify the “best”, that will always be subjective with qualifiers of “injuries”, “weather”, “blown calls”, “timing”, “location of game”, etc., etc. Fair is a much simpler concept to sell, although a few will always argue about the process, but not as many as when you shut out conference champions in sport with so many teams and so few games. Whether you like eight or not, it will generate more excitement all year long and satisfy more fans that someone was worthy of being called a “champion”. Debate all you want about #9 or #10, everyone will have had their shot. Then you can sit around bars and argue who was the best on a neutral field with all their players….those games aren’t reality so there is no one answer and the arguments will continue.
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Exactly. Expanded playoffs will generate more excitement for the regular season. Just like it does with college basketball. When we’ve got Stegeman Coliseum filled to over HALF capacity for a basketball game, the atmosphere is electric, I tell you.
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Right, there are many examples of Super Bowl and World Series winners who were not considered the best team that year.
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So what’s the point? Why did college football go through all of this if it wasnt to try and find the best team. not the most deserving or the team with the most wins, but simply the teams that are playing the best football right now.
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I guess the point is playoffs are fun to watch and generate a lot of revenue. In baseball they play 162 games. They could have every team play each other the same number of times, home and away. At the end of the regular season the team with the most wins would truely be the best team. But what fun would that be? We would rather determine the playoff winner than the best team.
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Which is exactly what they do in the english premier league, 20 teams play each other home and away, the team with the most points (win=3pt, tie=1pt, loss=0pt) is the league champion. Meanwhile the bottom 3 are sent to the “AAA” of soccer, while the top 3 in “AAA” are sent to the bigs.
If only baseball worked this way in the 90’s, the Bravos would have more red pennants than yellow in turner’s playground.
There is no way college football could do this unless somehow you did it by conference relegation which I guess would be based on regions and the Power 5?
This is just crazy talk back to hating the nerds…
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I’m all for hating the nerds. I understand there is no way to determine the best team in college football, which is my point. The winner of the playoffs determines the winner of the playoffs, not the best team. You are right, the Bravos were the best team for much of the 90’s, but have only one world championship. Whatever, lets pull for Arky, stomp tech, crush Bama and make the playoffs.( you never know )
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Agreed on all points.
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Bring back the BCS
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I guess we need to pull for the ol ball coach to go 7-5.
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Except that would then diminish the Clemson win and likely knock them out of the rankings. We need Mizzou to lose…obviously. We need Auburn and Clemson and Florida to win.
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I think the machinations needed for UGA to make the playoffs are too unlikely even to speculate on. There are too many 1-loss teams that are unlikely to become 2-loss teams to hope that UGA makes the cut.
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I guess UGA didn’t play Auburn this year according to the chart.
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Kept looking for that to be posted. The curiosity for us is: – What’s UGA’s OO record ? Could we see how that number was arrived at; i.e., how and when are they ranking the Opponent’s Opponent? How about the Opponent’s Opponent’s Opponent?
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I think they are trying to appease the conference commissioners and are working on a way to say to everyone else this is how we determined the 4 teams.
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I am where Mac is right now. I do not know what a perfect system might be. This is not one of them. But I am not sure I strongly disagree with the outcomes thus far. Do you Senator?
I like it that the committee has had several bites at the apple before the final pairings are determined. And will have two more. I like it that they have tried to explain their reasoning and be transparent. Even as head scratching as some of the reasoning might be.
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I’m more cynical. It’s too apparent to me that the playoff expansion from 2 to 4 teams, and beyond, is about collecting more postseason revenue and distributing it to more teams/conferences. So I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that the Big 10 champion will make the playoff, even if the strength of schedule works against them. Because the Big 10 wants some playoff money and the committee wants to give it to them.
But, that doesn’t sound good on ESPN, so they come up with some bogus metrics and hand waving that will hopefully cause enough eyes to glass over that they can get away with it.
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Think that this system (OO) is the long division way to get the FPI. Does anyone see that occurring , especially if you have a tertiary OO?
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I know others have expressed a different opinion on this issue but I think it is better for Georgia to play Missy State than Bama in the SECCG if Georgia wins the East because of the match-up. This Georgia team will beat the snot out of Missy State similar to the Georgia-Mizzou game, IMHO. Auburn beating Bama helps Georgia, making it an even more quality win by the Dawgs over Auburn, and a boat race job over Missy State would be the very thing to get us over the top and into the 4th spot even with 2 losses. Georgia was the highest rated 2 loss team until this week when UCLA jumped the Dawgs. If what I described occurs, Georgia would be champion of the best conference in the country and will have wins over Missy State, Auburn, Missouri (by a BIG margin), and Clemson (also by a wide margin)–all ranked teams. The 2 losses will be to teams that are bowl-bound (FU and USCe) so those losses won’t hurt as badly. Then the Dawgs would jump UCLA and get into the playoff. Of course, Georgia needs to win out for this to happen but I like our chances.
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Your logic is as good as any, but I would argue that’s it’s better for UGA to beat a one loss Alabama in the SECCG than to beat a one loss State.
My logic:
That plus a conference title, in my opinion, is a trump card over whatever MSU does.
I know that doesn’t exactly agree with the rationale spewed by “The Committee,” but I just think it will be hard to keep the SEC champ out of the playoff this year, even with two losses.
Not that I want things to work out that way, though. 🙂
Have a good day,
BD
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I want us to have a shot at the “rematch”. Some unfinished business there my friend. Unfinished business. 😉
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If Georgia were to beat Tech, get to the SECCG and beat either Bama or MSU, they would be 5-0 against teams ranked in the Committee’s Top 25. No one else would have that kind of positive statement, doesn’t guarantee them an invite because of the two losses (and who knows what those two this weekend?) I just want to get to Atlanta next week, and win. I can take the rest of what comes. If you are “Best of the Best”, you don’t have to justify yourself as a success to anyone.
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That the committee uses Opponent’s Opponents winning percentage is an encouraging sign to me, as it is superior to only using Opponent’s winning percentage.
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