Will Leitch’s post about Todd Gurley and his future is an eloquent rebuttal to every “it’s not what’s on the back of the jersey that matters, but what’s on the front” argument you’ve ever heard.
It would make me, and everyone in my town, and millions of college football fans, sad if Gurley was finished as a Georgia Bulldog. But with all due respect: Why should anybody care about us? We allow this corrupt system to exist. If we want players to put their bodies on the line every Saturday while we scream off all the bourbon we consumed pregame, we should make it worth their while. If we do not change the system, we cannot complain if someone begs out of it because it is not in their best interests.
You know what would make the NCAA and the schools take a hard look at their amateurism model? If every star player entering his third year like Gurley announced he was leaving school, hiring an agent and spending the year preparing for the NFL draft instead.
Get The Picture 
Players ought to be able to hire an agent and examine their pro (or other career) options whenever they want, regardless of age or playing status. Students who aren’t athletes can do so (and, I should add, even if they’re on scholarship or receiving other stipends).
NCAA “amateurism” is nothing more than a cynical and clumsy attempt at codifying economic exploitation of players.
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This makes absolute sense. These are kids, albeit very talented in specific physical skills. But being 20 and a gifted athlete doesn’t make one wise. Let them get the best advice they can. Of course, a bad choice in lawyer or agent can be disastrous, too. That’s part of life.
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Which is there the university could really come in and help. I like the 3 year rule (selfishly, helps our teams succeed; but it also makes sure there isn’t a 19 yr old kid getting his head smashed in by a 25 yr old pro in his prime), but the universities could go a long way in helping these kids make the right choices for their next level, and just think of the recruiting advantage (there’s that selfish interest again) they could get by having a good system in place for helping the players navigate the next few years.
Another way to look at this, I think, is that if these guys really think they deserve to be compensated for the likeness (I don’t disagree), signing autographs in a car is not the way to do it. Prescott, Gurley, Mariota, and whoever else would be garnering a high price for their signatures would do better by offering a joint signing and thumbing their nose at the NCAA in an act that’s public and that draws attention to the situation instead of helping out some scummy memorabilia dealer who is actually just a step up (or maybe a step down) from the guy running the title pawn shop or the rent-to-own or payday check cashing racket down the street.
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The thing is, if players are ultimately allowed to own their likeness and make money off of it, they aren’t going to stop at autograph signings. Appearances at local auto dealerships. TV endorsement deals. Heck, maybe even shoe endorsements for those truly transcendent athletes.
Autograph signings are just the current avenue that players can get away with without stirring the pot too much.
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The District Court’s O’Bannon ruling allows conferences to prohibit players from selling their name, liknesses and images for more than $5,000.00 per year, so the existing ruling still retrains players’ rights to market their names, liknesses and images.
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that is, “restrains players'”, not “retrains players'” Sorry.
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Where this ultimately goes is that, if allowed, folks like Jimmy Rane and Don Leeburn would be straight up paying players to come to their preferred school (e.g. Boone Pickens would offer the next up-and-coming HS junior $150k for his autograph upon signing his LOI with Oklahoma State). While most of us are uncomfortable with the current situation where players and teams are penalized for low-level stuff, I’d guess you’d still find a majority of folks out there would be opposed to the model I’m describing.
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Agreed. The problem I have is not solving the outcome problem to begin with. That is meant as a challenge to those people who want to pay them and want them to garner money from sales while playing college football. I’m stumped and that makes me reluctant to free these teenagers into the world of avarice and greed wholesale.
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Better to keep them under the purview of the NCAA, where greed is unknown?
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Isn’t that happening already, FD? The rumor of Ole Miss alums and others paying players to get them to go there is too persistent to ignore. Laremy Tunsil, anyone? Those guys would do it without the autograph. And a $150K autograph obviously is for something more than just a signature, so it doesn’t clean up the obvious bribe.
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Yeah, I don’t see the problem there. What’s the end result of that scenario? That the bigger schools with endless pockets of cash hold a huge recruiting advantage over the smaller schools? Geez, that sounds a lot like the current situation. At least that way, the players are getting market value.
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Isn’t that what parents are for as well (helping the kid hire the right advisors)?
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Plenty of average, responsible adults have lousy financial advisors and attorneys that cause all sorts of problems, and that’s not even with the added incentive for hucksters of a kid that’s easily seen by these professionals (and maybe their parents) as a winning lottery ticket.
Just because someone brought up a kid successfully doesn’t mean they are savvy, regardless of educational background or class.
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+1
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Why not the schools themselveswith their business profs who are educated in finance and the law schools, form an advisory council to help young athletes with decisions, akin to nutritionists helping with the athletes health?
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Absolutely. Here in C’ville, a neighbors kid just up the street from me dropped out of UVA as a sophomore last year, as he was discovered by a higher up by a Silicon tech company during a summer internship and offered an unbelievable package to join their team right away (I believe 175k to start with stock options).
You know what’s so crazy about this story? His UVA professor/mentor told him its best for him to drop out, as he doesn’t need to bother wasting his time for another two years there when he’s been offered a fast-track to success in an area he loves. Basically, a similar situation to Bill Gates and many others who dropped out of college as it was a waste of time for them.
Yet, though he and any other student could easily take advantage of a similar opportunity, Gurley and other NFL ready types can’t, which is absurd. Even worse, Gurley has a very short shelf life for his upcoming career (2.5 average for NFL WB), while the aforementioned tech wiz kid up the street has 40+ years waiting for him with open arms.
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I guess I’m a total dumbass–I have 2 degrees. Seven years of college down the drain. 🙂
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huh?
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I don’t understand the need for hyperbole. If you want to make a case that players should be more highly compensated for what they do to bring in revenue, there’s a great case to be made. If you start arguing that they are utterly victimized and left destitute by this corrupt system, you lose me. They receive a scholarship which has great value, have many of their expenses including much food and clothing paid for, have access to the best trainers and coaches to prepare them for their career in football, if they are capable of pursuing that. Why does everyone want to turn it into an absolute black/white situation?
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Gurleys signature is HIS signature. Let me ask you this; how is that value calculated?
This is the ONLY scenario that would make sense that will NEVER happen.
Make it entirely amatuer. Take ALL scholarships away. Take the money out of the sport. Get rid of TV rights get rid of ANYTHING that generates a profit. This is the only way the amatuer model works. You and I know this will never happen. Too many people getting paid.
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The objections to the Gurley suspension are about player inability to profit off his own likeness and (in this post) seek representation to examine the professional athletic options open to him. As far as I know, everyone else in the university community – and American society at large – has the right to profit off his own likeness and have outside representation/career guidance. The universities are telling these kids they don’t own their own names and can’t seek professional guidance on their athletic futures.
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You have to ask yourself why?
Why aren’t they allowed to do so?
Money. They stand to lose money.
University’s and the NCAA.
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This whole notion about them receiving a free education is pretty much asinine, and further shows the NCAA’s deceitfulness and corruption. The NCAA loves to remind all of us about all the benefits they receive, including a free education and a college degree, which is the stated ultimate goal. But if the NCAA truly cared about this, they would not only do everything in their power to see that such athletes indeedgraduate, but also ban universities from offering utterly pointless majors that have absolutely zero benefit in the real world.
Instead, less than 50% of African-American college players graduate within a 6 year time frame, and those who do often come out of school with a complete joke of a degree like general studies, communications, housing, and child and family development type degrees; none of which are of “great value” at all. In fact, they’re of very little to no value, like all the history majors now working as baristas at Starbucks.
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You are absolutely correct. I will add that I personally know a college football player at a big-time program who was told by his coach that he couldn’t pursue his preferred major because it would involve too much academic work.
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A lot of academics would argue that the purpose of college is education and not vocation. This is an ongoing fight on campus and the source of a lot of friction (for example, profs in History make squat compared to profs in Accounting).
Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but the issue is far larger than just athletes getting a valuable return on their investment.
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Absolutely the issue runs far deeper, though I tend to blame the universities themselves for continuing to offer such absurd degrees that provide little to no value in the read world. History, art, communications, philosophy, female studies, anthropology, and the like should be done away with immediately and replaced with more appropriate majors that are better aligned to a 21st century workplace.
When CEO’s of companies like Caterpillar openly decry our current education system for churning out college educated workers with pointless degrees, while China churns out their students with more appropriately aligned skills, perhaps colleges should start listening to him and others for not producing workers that eligible to be hired by him and many others.
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This is hardly the place for this type of discussion, but do you really think there is no value to society of having people educated in various fields that may not be viewed as “valuable” by companies? The over capitalization of our society is having huge (and often negative) implications for our society (see our current political system which has been taken over by moneyed special interests). Allowing that to also happen to our education system is not positive in my mind.
In addition, I hardly think China is a model society that we should be seeking to emulate.
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Well, based on all the local Starbucks baristas with history or women’s studies degrees with 150k+ student loan debt, I’d venture to say that such degrees aren’t serving them well. A previous babysitter of ours is a recent college grad (E. lit) living at home, with seemingly nowhere to go but grad school which means, yep, more debt. Mind you, that doesn’t mean she should have instead pursued a law degree followed by a handsome career as a K street lobbyist, but I can think of a litany of other areas she could have found an interest that would be better suited for a 21st century economy.
While Chinese political leaders indeed isn’t a society worth modeling, young, hungry Chinese students certainly are. They have as much passion for STEM related areas of study as we do college football and our putting that to great use. Meanwhile, our own U.S. Dept of Labor has estimated that there are currently 1.5 million open/unfilable jobs in STEM related areas domestically, particularly in certain engineering sectors, due almost entirely to the gross imbalance between our education system and our rapidly changing, 21st century economy
The hourly rate for a plumber in most major U.S. cities is now higher than the average hourly psychologist rate. Aforementioned Caterpillar currently has more than 3,000, 100k+ jobs currently open and desperately waiting to be filled (based on Q2 conference call with Oberhelman). Yet you, meanwhile, are steadfast in your belief that this is a mere overcapitalisation, in which you’d openly encourage someone to pursue history or communications regardless of the opportunities at hand after graduating.
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So I take it you’re fully behind the new College of Engineering at UGA? I’m an engineering graduate from UGA (many years ago) so I’m for it, but I regularly read comments here seemingly mocking the CoE, usually in discussions about paying for an indoor practice facility.
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Absolutely I am…love it. Engineering will be absolutely critical in the years ahead if we (U.S.) are to continue to be leading economic power.
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3rd & Grantham…Air China is ready when you are.
CHOPDAWG
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I would agree with 3&G that there is little value to society in training college kids to navel gaze.
One of my college friends (20 years ago) got a degree in sociology, which required a masters degree to get a job. So, she got a masters degree in sociology. Then, she got a good sociology job making $17k. Needless to say, she’s no longer in that field. She would have advanced her economic prospects more by working as a cashier at a grocery store for 5 years after high school than she did earning a masters degree in a worthless field.
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Indeed. And with the vast amounts of information at your fingertips today compared to just 20 years ago, if you’re truly bent on devoting your life to an area in which a college degree is deemed worthless by the overall workplace, why on earth would you incur a 6 figure debt just to have your name on a college certificate in relation to that particular field?
In other words, does someone with an interest in history or sociology truly need to obtain a college degree in that field in order to gain a wealth of knowledge or expertise to the point of which they are satisfied? After all, whether they have that particular degree or not won’t matter in the workplace, so they’d be far better off studying subjects on their own and saving tens of thousands in tuition costs. If bright college dropouts with interest in hot sectors like tech can forgo college, surely a history or arts major can do the same.
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Do you really not understand why we have degrees in the liberal arts? Like, this isn’t an elaborate joke you’re treating us to?
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Sure. We understand it. We’re simply pointing out that students who earn a degree for the purpose of earning a living would best be suited to steer clear of liberal arts fields.
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You are an idiot.
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I’d add that I got a full scholarship for maintaining a B average. Never had to piss in a cup.
One may say, well “room and board and chance at NFL!” True, I didn’t get room and board, and Ramsey’s gym wasn’t quite as nice as the athletic facility, but I didn’t have to practice 4 hours a day, do mandatory study halls, or “involuntary” workouts all summer.
As to the chance at the NFL, if college football went away I can assure you the NFL would be happy to create a minor league system of football… or someone would.
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Victimize? Maybe not, but definitely exploited. The irony of the NCAA and schools making millions off of these athletes abilities while graciously giving them a scholarship and feeding and washing their clothes is sickening.
How about Academic scholarships, Band scholarships, scholarships for Cheerleaders? Are these scholarships under the same NCAA tyranny?
Do they spend 1/2 the time earning their scholarship? Do they risk injury sometimes life threatening injury to earn their scholarship? Are they prohibited from getting a job while on scholarship? No hyperbole here, just the truth.
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Not to say that some athletes don’t take advantage of their scholarships and better their lots in life, but i’d say it’s rather unlikely for a lot of athletes at big time programs (see 3rdandGrantham’s comment below). UGA perpetuates this problem by offering majors such as Consumer Economics or Rec & Leisure Studies that generally serve no other higher education purpose but to keep athletes eligible. I won’t be so hyperbolic to say “left destitute by a corrupt system”, but clearly the schools have an incentive for pushing athletes into those types of majors since they keep doing it is the money flowing into schools because of the on-field success of the athletes (i.e. television $, athletic dept. contributions, alumni donations, etc.). I differ from 3rdandGrantham in that I think there is value to majors that serve to educate the mind and aren’t vocational in nature, but I do believe a lot of the majors set up to keep athletes eligible serve neither purpose and that’s the shame in all of this.
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If the Consumer Economics Department started handing out F’s would the department exist? We all know the answer, and so does every professor in the department.
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First of all UGA no longer has a Rec and Leisure Studies Program. Second, here is a listing of jobs on the Georgia Recreation and Parks Society website today.
http://www.grpa.org/careers.php
It incredible that people on a blog devoted to athletics would diminish a field that contributes directly to both athletics and other constructive activities for people. Then again, I’m not that surprised.
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I graduated in 2007 and Rec & Leisure Studies was doing well and thriving then. One of my good friends in college graduated with a degree from that program and he currently does a lot of stuff with Georgia parks. He also was surrounded by a lot of athletes in all his classes because it was seen as an easy major and athletes were encouraged to go that route. If you believe that major was not used to hide athletes and keep them eligible, well – I’ve got some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you.
BTW, calling people idiots (especially on this blog) is not really going to get them to see your side of the discussion. Then again, I’m not that surprised.
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Nice retort, and I thought your original point was excellent. Perhaps we’re now both idiots, however.
I respectfully disagree with your notion that “there is value to majors that serve to educate the mind.” 20 years ago and previously, I’d somewhat agree with you. But given today’s technology with the wealth of information at your fingertips, you quite easily can become an expert on your own in such fields with little carryover to the real world, without having to go many thousands of dollars in debt in the process. Hackerdog put it best when he mentioned training kids to essentially navel gaze.
At least in my neck of the woods, many of those who are pursuing rather worthless majors are trust fund types, who don’t have a particular interest in capitalistic ventures, but still want to obtain that precious college degree to avoid any stigmas in their social circles (in regard to only being a high school grad). Hence, they get their proud sociology degree from UVA or whatever, then sit back and proceed to tell everyone about their sociology degree from UVA while typing away on their Apple computer daily at their local starbucks.
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That was an oddly specific characterization. Since you keep bringing it up, did a barista steal your girlfriend or something?
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So you graduated in the program and agree that it “that generally serve no other higher education purpose but to keep athletes eligible”. I got my undergrad in the field on the GI Bill after I returned from Vietnam and moved down here and got my masters at UGA. I worked in the field for 20 years and then went on to earn another degree from UGA. As far as getting people on my side, let me tell you how we put it “it don’t mean nuthin”. Denigrating a program and some, or all of the people in it, is stupid in my opinion.
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I graduated from UGA in 2007 and I’m guessing you haven’t observed my handle to see what I studied (hint…Accounting). You seem to be missing the point in the context of the discussion with respect to athlete compensation. The discussion we’re having is that there are majors that exist at Universities (at the University of Georgia, those were Rec & Leisure Studies and Consumer Economics while I was an undergrad) for no other purpose than to keep athletes eligible. The folks that want to argue that the scholarship is plenty of compensation seem to ignore the fact that these majors exist and athletes are pushed into them by their athletic departments. Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes – in the grand scheme of things at an institution of higher learning, there is little higher education value in a program when the only reason the curriculum continues to be taught at the University is to keep athletes eligible. That’s not an indictment on the folks like yourself that chose to pursue that field of study and have made a career out of it. That’s an indictment on the University that abused that program to keep athletes eligible for play.
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You are right about one thing, I misread your post and thought you said you graduated from Rec @ Leisure Studies. As for this “Universities (at the University of Georgia, those were Rec & Leisure Studies and Consumer Economics while I was an undergrad) for no other purpose than to keep athletes eligible”. If you acknowledge that people pursue a degree in the field(s) how can you also say “for no other purpose”?
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Your link lists 29 jobs for the state of Georgia. 10 of them list the salary as hourly, so that leaves 19 jobs as potential careers. Only four of those list the potential to pay more than $40k. Given the paucity of low paying jobs available, it’s a good thing that UGA eliminated the department.
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I noticed that some of those listings involved things I did when I was in my early teens (swim instructor) to mid to late teens (lifeguard). Regardless, its not exactly an impressive list, and there isn’t one opening that even remotely screams “boy, you better have a degree in order to do that” on there.
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Fair question. Let me pose this rules analomy. Suppose Gurley did what the Alabama TE did and sold weed instead of his autograph. As long as Gurley didn’t use his football fame to prmote the weed business (and no drug dealer does) then the NCAA says he has the moral character to play football. If Gurley sold his autograph instead of weed the NCAA says he lacks that moral character. Another example. Someone posted this on GTP in another thread. ” Nick Marshall needs money and steals from teammates. Marshall plays. Gurley needs money and sells his autograph. Gurley sits.” I wish I recall who posted that so I could tip my hat to him or her.
Does that seem to be an outrageous set of rules?
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More NCAA rules aburdity. Let’s say the internet rumor that Gurley’s Mom had her power cut off and Gurley sold autographs to get her power turned back on ( I have no idea if that is true.) Here is what is allowed by the NCAA: Ms. Gurley can buy a Gurley jersey online from the UGA website and she can sell it for a profit to someone else for the money to turn the lights back on. If Todd Gurley himself buys the Todd Gurley from the UGA online store and pays full price and sells the jersey to the same buyer at the same price for the money to turn Mom’s lights back on he is not eligible to play.
To me that is outrageous. Do you find that distinction okay because Gurley is getting a valuable college scholarship?
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You’re asking about an organization that only recently ruled that providing athletes peanut butter for their bagels was a permissible benefit.
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Instead of saying ‘NCAA’ we should say The ‘NCAA Cartel controlled by University Presidents’ ………
Nothing changes because it’s just exactly like the Jere Moreheads of the world want it. Shame on them.
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Excellent point. It’s hard to maintain a good racketeering operation without a front organization
“Unfortunately, behind this facade the National Collegiate Athletic Association and university athletic programs are simultaneously running two seemingly diametrically opposed rackets; one taking advantage of the players and the other ostensibly giving them unfair benefits…..
And like any government, the NCAA regulates in an attempt to restrict competition. As Lawrence Kahn noted, “Most economists who have studied the NCAA view it as a cartel that attempts to produce rents by restricting output and limiting payments for inputs such as player compensation.”
http://mises.org/daily/6882/The-NCAA-Racket
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Are there still people making the “it’s the name on the front” argument other than the schools and the NCAA? If so, seriously?
Doesn’t the fact that Gurley’s signature has value completely disprove this argument? Wouldn’t people just be asking for the mascot’s autograph if it was all about the school?
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I support athletes’ being allowed to get jobs, making money off their autographs/likeness, being paid a small cost of living stipend, consulting with attorneys and agents, and a breaking of the NCAA-NFL cartel.
However, the arguments about who brings the value to the jerseys and the general value of the college experience for players has swung too far in the other direction. Yes, Gurley makes those #3 jerseys fly off the shelves, but he sells those jerseys largely to the UGA fanbase, I imagine. There is some synergy, there, between Gurley’s prowess and school pride / school identity.
In response to the degrees being “useless” made above, I agree that is in part a failure of the university as a whole and not a football question. Still, there is value in the job market simply for having been a UGA football player, for the degree – any degree – as a passport to apply for certain jobs, for the sense of confidence and accomplishment for these young men, for the social conncections and social norms learned, etc.
I don’t think we should diminish these qualities of a degree to the 95% of the kids who go through our program who will never turn pro, or for the 65% or so who may not have ever been paid to play football if it was a totally free market affair like the baseball minor leagues, or who may not have been paid more by the market to play than what Georgia is paying in equivalent cost of their room, board, and tuition.
Finally, while I appreciate that football makes huge demands of these kids, I do believe they’re allowed to choose their own majors. They may not decide to tackle a time-intensive major like biology, but nobody’s making them major in nutritional science, either. If they’re not prepared to handle college-level classes, as much as we wish them well, they should not be at UGA. If this is a problem, or if time to study is a problem, perhaps that’s the real conversation we should be having.
And having been back to UGA for classes recently, even given that I started on “third base” compared to a lot of these kids, classes are not as hard as many of us here might remember. Sadly, some of them are truly “show up and get your B”.
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But only one side’s being compensated for it!
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I agree it’s unfair and he ought to make some money from it – you know my thoughts on this, even if I didn’t spell them out in the first paragraph.
But in our indignation I’m just saying let’s not forget that UGA is bringing something considerable to the sale of each jersey. Providing the infrastructure for Gurley (and lesser lights) to shine, feeding, clothing, and schooling 3-stars and 5-stars alike, cutting the grass on North Campus and creating the UGA brand, etc.
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That’s all nice, but it ignores the issue Leitch raises: would Gurley be better off financially staying in school, on scholarship and abiding by NCAA rules, or by walking away and monetizing his likeness in prep for the NFL?
It’s not a close call in his case, is it?
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This may sound crazy but I’m not sure.
As far as monetizing his likeness, is that as effective if he’s not attached to a team, or if he leaves Georgia under less-than-auspicious circumstances?
If he’s ahead on his classes, has insurance vs a career-ending injury (big IF), he may decide to make the most of the coaching, room and board, and opportunity to showcase his skills in the SECCG and playoffs – and show that he’s a guy that can work within a system, even when it feels absurd. We’re talking about waiting two months, here, as far as monetizing his likeness. The argument might have been stronger last February.
I also don’t want to underestimate the potential value of camaraderie and belonging that many guys might get from playing cfb, especially at certain programs, and though they may be excited to leave, finishing their GA career on a good note may be very important to them. Consider how many of our very draft-able defensive players chose to come back in 2012.
Boykin came back to finish his degree this summer. He didn’t get it from a school in Philadelphia where he’s playing pro ball. It seems quite a few guys do that, and think of all the guys that come back to do various events. Intangibles can matter quite a bit, sometimes.
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Is it effective? Didn’t seem to be much of a problem for Manziel or Newton, to name a couple of others who left under “less-than-auspicious circumstances”.
Gotta tell you that’s an amusing euphemism. It’s only less-than-auspicious for the NCAA.
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But Manziel and Newton were “attached” to A&M and Auburn up until they were drafted and saw their playing days out to their “natural” conclusions. I don’t like even comparing them, because Gurley surely has much more character than either. And don’t get me wrong, I’m sure he can rustle up some cash, but do you think he’ll sign a big endorsement deal before he gets drafted and is associated with a new fan base?
And less-than-auspicious isn’t a euphemism – I think if Gurley leaves now, especially by his own choice, that’s exactly the right way to describe his departure. You focus solely on the NCAA, but Gurley is not the only player to be asked to live with this rule. Other players could probably make a buck or two here and there but don’t – some out of fear of being caught, sure, but some because of a sense of duty to the school and their fellow players – because by signing on with the team you know the deal. If he leaves now, there will be a sense that ducking responsibility for breaking the rules was more important to him than finishing out at Georgia on a high note.
So yes, if he leaves he will be remembered with affection, including by me, but not quite the same way as Boykin or Murray.
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Sounds really inauspicious to me.
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I’m afraid I moved the goalposts on you, sorry – trying to pick up the conversation between working – so a mild disappointment in Todd from the fan base if he bails but per that article, you are probably right, nobody in the NFL or handing out endorsements will care about exactly how he left, especially since it’s not some kind of horrible event.
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If you mean that the fan base would be disappointed that Gurley isn’t playing for UGA anymore, I agree that most, or all, of us would be disappointed. If you mean that the fan base would view Gurley choosing to assert ownership of his own name and likeness, in opposition to NCAA rules, as immoral, then you’re wrong.
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” or by walking away and monetizing his likeness in prep for the NFL?”
I’m on board, except who has ever done this successfully to justify the conclusion that self-study is better for your game than CFB? The only example I can think of is maurice clarett, and that didn’t work out at all.
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Frankly – if the worst case scenario plays out and he gets a lengthy suspension, I hope he shows up every Saturday outside Sanford Stadium for the rest of the season, sets up a table, and charges $100/pop to autograph stuff.
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So what do you propose Senator? You’ve stated in the past that a sixteen team playoff would essentially ruin the regular season, if not college football altogether. So how would changing the current amateurism model not do the same? The T Boone Pickens example above from FisheriesDog is spot on. It’s Pandora’s box.
Get rid of the NCAA, I’m fine with that. But if you get rid of amateurism, you’ll end up with a minor league that no one gives a shit about. We’ll all start following high school football. And then the debate will rage about compensating high schoolers, and recursively all the way down to little league, until we find ourselves debating Nike’s proposed contract on the next star athlete in utero. Are we that far off?
Pay the players and you ruin the game.
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Doesn’t sound like you leave much room for debate there.
The thing is, the game has been steadily eroding for years. Think of all the compromises by the schools and the conferences that have already been made in the name of chasing the almighty dollar. (Anybody miss Nebraska v. Oklahoma like I do?)
It’s bullshit to say that everyone gets in on the money grab except for the kids whom we watch. Especially when you say they can’t make money off their name/likeness/image, unlike everyone else in the country.
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It’s not bullshit! It’s the very essence of what makes it special. I watch and bleed and pray and pull for these kids because they are amateurs and they play for pride, and for pride only.
If they get paid, you lose the very heart of what makes it a religious experience, what the beloved Stephen Fry hails a mere derby amongst amateurs.
I leave plenty of room for debate, I just can’t think of a solution, and I haven’t heard anyone propose one. How can you have it both ways?
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Your amateurs are about to get a cost of living stipend. Does that mean the end of college football for you?
If not, then we’re just arguing over the fee.
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As long as the stipends are divvied out with parity across all schools accounting for higher costs of living in different regions of the country, I fully support them. But if each school gets to decide how much, then we are back to a T Boone Pickens bag man model which destroys amateurism.
I don’t view a stipend as a wage, it’s just part of the scholarship.
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Well, that’s certainly convenient for you.
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It’s the exploitation of the kids that makes the sport special? Seriously?
Are you ruining your vocational field because you get paid for your work? I bet you don’t think you are. But what if I insist that making widgets should be done for the love of the widget-making, not for the almighty dollar? I’m sure you see a clear exception between you deserving to be paid for your labors and college athletes not deserving to be paid for theirs.
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What they are doing is not labor! It’s playing a game.
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Yeah, that’s one way of looking at “voluntary” summer practice.
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Well, in fairness, many people spend a whole lot of time and energy doing things as amateurs before they decide to turn pro…so it’s not crazy to call it a game, rather than work, until they get paid for it. I’m pretty sure the swim team practices their asses off, too. And many shall remain amateurs forever but be happy to have had the experience.
So again, it’s about the market restrictions that prevent the opportunity to turn pro when normal conditions would allow it, not whether or not the players work hard, how much money is made off them, how much tuition is worth, etc. It always comes back to the artificial limits on their choices.
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That’s right. Richt and Saban wouldn’t consider college football a game or hobby. It’s their vocation. It’s a business. And most people don’t mind them profiting from it. But when the issue turns to player compensation, somehow that business becomes a game for amateurs.
I say pick one of the models. If it’s a game, let the chemistry professor coach the team in between lectures and cut ticket prices down to cover expenses and nothing more. If it’s a business, then let the ones doing the most work (players) share in some of the profits.
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You won’t have to worry about the high schools and Pee Wee football as they are going the way of the dinosaur. Within 20 years there will be no tackle football on the high school level because of the liability the school systems will face. Florida is a hot bed of football and we are now going to Flag football for the kids. It’s only a matter of time until tackle is gone and maybe just maybe we might still have 7 on 7.
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Sad but true. Like the ancient gladiators in Rome, or bullfighting in Spain.
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They are paid right now, with GIA scholarships. That pay is just capped artificially low.
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Folks who say that the players are getting zero in return are mistaken. However, the folks saying “rules is rules” and Gurley is the bad guys are overlooking that the Sherman Antitrust Act outlaws buyers of services, such as the NCAA and universities, to enter into agreements that restrict or cap what they have to pay the sellers of services. The U. S. District Court ruled that the players were sellers of their services to universities (it also ruled that for analysis of recruiting other college football and basketball markets that exist within big time sports the colleges can be sellers and players can be buyers. Either way the Sherman Antitrust Act principles apply.) The U. S. District Court ruled that the rule capping what Gurley can sell his autograph at $0.00 violates Federal law.
Just because the schoalrship has value does not excuse antotrust violations. Let’s say employers in your field all agree to cap salaries for your job at $100,000.00 per year. Just because you, Cosmic Dawg, are getting a nice salary does not excuse the vioaltion of the law. You are still entitled to seek a buyer of your services who is willing to pay more.
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I agree with you completely – you won’t find a more free market guy commenting here, and part of the reason I want to see the trust broken is because I believe the market and individual choice will solve 99.9% of these questions. The other reason is I’m just old-fashioned enough to want to see UGA students playing for the UGA football team.
But the point I was trying to make is that even in a market-driven scenario, the “pay” in room, board, tuition, opportunity, etc that UGA offers would still attract a number of these athletes vs the football minor leagues, even if they were told they couldn’t work at a grocery store on the weekends. I think sometimes we talk ourselves into thinking we have 85 players “on the plantation”, when in fact we may have 40 or so out of a thousand (?) student athletes.
And we should also remember that the beneficiaries of Gurley’s efforts are only partly a cigar-chomping yard boss (B-M staff and coaches, ESPN, NFL, advertisers, etc). Partly it’s the equestrian team and his less-talented teammates. Again, doesn’t make it right – Gurley shouldn’t be coerced into working for anybody but Gurley – but it should perhaps temper the way we discuss it.
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I’ve been saying for the past week (since the scandal broke) that Gurley should forgo and start preparing for the NFL draft. That is, as long as his NFL advisers agree that doing as such wouldn’t have a deleterious affect on his overall draft stock, which, according to NFL types who are in constant touch with GM’s, it wouldn’t in his case at all.
Sure, the selfish side of me wants him to return and finish out his career at UGA, but that’s rather conveniently easy for me to say, as I have absolutely no stake in anything other than wanting him to lead UGA to victory. But if I’m a confidant to Gurley or related to him in some fashion, I’d be imploring him to leave now and start preparing for the combines in the spring.
Such an action on his part would also be devastating to the NCAA PR wise, and no question would destroy any remaining foundation and power they have left, as it would set the precedence for other high profile underclassman who are biding their time until they are able to leave after their junior year. Sure, UGA would essentially be the sacrificial lamb in this, but ultimately it will be a positive benefit to all going forward. Most importantly, IMO it would be best for Gurley as well.
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…forgo the rest of the season, that is.
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I’m sure Gurley feels some bond with his teammates and coaches – maybe even UGA fans. It’s possible he’d like to return for them and (of course) his own personal achievement.
But, on a purely rational level, yeah, you’re spot on.
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His teammates would absolutely understand if he bounced for NFL and never played college again.
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“That is, as long as his NFL advisers agree that doing as such wouldn’t have a deleterious affect on his overall draft stock, which, according to NFL types who are in constant touch with GM’s, it wouldn’t in his case at all.”
Uh…..he heh. Yeah, right. What was that about property for sale in Hahira again?
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I’m just relaying what NFL insider Chris Mortensen said either yesterday or Monday, when asked about such a scenario in which a player like Gurley chose to sit out the remainder of the year. He said (paraphrasing) that in Gurley’s case it wouldn’t make any difference at all, as he’s NFL ready and the GM’s he’s talked to would actually embrace his forward-thinking approach to preparing his dedication to the NFL.
Mortensen is perhaps the most respected NFL guy out there, so go take your thoughts up with him, though common sense alone should easily mesh with what he’s saying.
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The truth is that for an athlete like Gurley who is NFL ready, every year spent getting beat up in college may be shaving the back end of their pro career off by a year. That in his case could equate to a couple of million dollars.
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I’ve said for years, the solution to almost all of the problems with college player compensation and NFL draft eligibility rules would be for the NCAA to mandate that any player, in any sport, must gain admission to the school to be eligible to be offered a scholarship. Once the college football and basketball world was no longer allowed to accept players with grades and test scores that were not the same as the incoming freshman class, the free farm system the NFL enjoys would go away and they would have to create their own and the NBA would have to draft kids out of high school or set up a developmental league.
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+1. Then I could believe the Student-Athlete argument. Right now they don’t have a choice in career path.
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That is already the rule. The letter of intent is not the scholarship. The rules already require that a player be admitted to the university before he can sign his scholarship papers.
I think you are saying the NCAA should require schools to accept only athletes who would be admitted had they not been athletes. That would require another unenforceable rule. Since colleges already may make admissions decisions on factors other than SAT/ATC scores and GPAs then good luck proving that X would not have been admitted had he not been a player.
The NCAA does not want to make Stanford and Savannah State make simialr admissions decisions, and I don’t either.
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Again, the solution here is revoke the NFL’s exemption from laws against price controls (athlete’s wages) and some elements of the collusion of NCAA member institutions relating to players and you probably get the desired end result – most kids play for UGA because they want to go to school at UGA.
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Actually, I think you would just move the talent around. If the most talented athletes were excluded from admission to UGA and could only be admitted to Clayton State, then Clayton State would have a great football team.
I think that most of the social engineers miss the problems inherent in social engineering. There are always unintended and unforeseen consequences. And there will always be loopholes to be exploited. There is too much money in college and professional football to be confident that we can just pass a law, or a rule, so that we can exclude one class from sharing in the revenues. It has never worked and it will never work.
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One issue I have with the howls of outrage over the “exploitation” of the athletes is that the people who claim the players are being exploited conveniently omit, or forget, the player is getting a fully paid for college education, free development of their playing skills by some of the best coaches in the country, free access to the best trainers and managers in the country, free nationwide television exposure, a four year audition for the NFL, and priceless amounts of goodwill from the fan/alumni community of the college they play for. If the college football model were to go away. Individual players who wanted to play pro ball would have to show up at some sort of NFL walk on camp and hope they could impress the scouts enough in a short period of time, with their high school skills, to get a shot at making a roster. Furthermore, if a player truly feels like he is being exploited, taken advantage of, treated like a “slave”, whatever, he can quit at any time and attempt to hire an agent and work out until he is draft eligible and hope to be signed.
The NFL drafts 262 players a year out of approx 3000 that are eligible. All 262 do not make the teams or become millionaires. I would estimate around 100 or so end up really “making it” in the NFL from each year’s draft. The benefit of the free college education is a much more certain and valuable reward for the vast majority of the 10,880 D1 scholarship football players than the money to made from their likeness or autograph.
The current system isn’t perfect, far from it, but it is not some plantation system where the players are exploited and taken advantage of while being given nothing in return. If people are so adamant about watching players who get paid for playing, they can always watch the NFL.
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Well said…there’s nuance, but like most arguments where one side becomes a mob the nuance is lost. Doesn’t take away from the argument that the best and brightest should be able to take better advantage of the value they create. It does, however, shut down the argument altogether when people pretend there aren’t two or more legitimate viewpoints.
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I contend the best and brightest already get an advantage, lucrative pro contracts when they go to the draft. I have a bigger issue with the NFL draft rules than I do with the NCAA rules. The NCAA is an easy target, people let the NFL slide and want the NCAA to be the de facto NFL for highly talented college players.
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The NFL could certainly be reformed. But, the NFL compensates its players and the players have a union that has negotiated the terms of compensation.
We have heard over the last few months that player compensation and player unionization in college would spin the Earth right off its axis. So, I think the NFL has the superior model when it comes to player compensation.
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Don’t forget, the number one of the team’s scholarship 85 players gets the same benefit as the 85th player. What is Gurley’s value to the team compared to the third string tight end?? Should your top sales rep be compensated the same as the low achiever?That’s why #3’s autograph has a value he should rightly receive compensation for…does the bookstore sell #90 jerseys?
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I dont think that anyone is forgetting about those benefits.
The point is that these guys are being compensated. Most folks just think that they should be compensated more than they currently are and don’t think that there should be rules limiting how much they can be compensated. We all agree that they are currently being compensated.
Why do you hate free markets?
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Why does the NFL hate free markets is the bigger question. They have an arbitrary rule that restricts the right of an outstanding football player of legal age from making a living playing football until he is 21. That is much more contrary to free markets than the NCAA rules that try to insure a level playing field among 120+ schools with varying levels of resources. If Gurley were a savant genius in chemistry, there is no rule anywhere on Earth that he could not develop, patent, and sell for billions a cure for some disease at age 18. The fact that his talent lies in football makes him wait until he is 21 before he can make a penny in a professional football setting because the NFL wants to force colleges to develop their talent. The NFL is the real villain in all of this.
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actually, it’s the federal judge that slapped down Maurice Clarett that is more to blame than the NFL. If he wins that case and the NFL has to comply, they would do so. At present, it is in their financial interest to let the colleges house, feed and train future NFL players. But if the age restriction is dropped to 18 (where it should be) then the NFL will gladly start drafting players sooner.
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Except that Gurley is being held to the NCAA’s rules. The NFL and what you think about them is a straw-man to the argument of not fully compensating college players.
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That’s because Gurley plays in the NCAA system. I would argue that since the vast majority (90%+) of college players never play pro ball, their scholarships, room and board are adequate compensation. How much would a player like Bauta be worth? He does not really play, should he be paid the same as Gurley? If you pay the players, do you take away the scholarship and have them pay their own tuition, room and board? There are 85 players on scholarship in most programs and maybe 35 or so see extensive playing time, how much do the other 50 get?
It’s very easy to point at Gurley and claim he is not “fully compensated”, it get’s a little tougher when you look at Brendan Douglas or Jacob Park.
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Why is it tough? Does your company agonize over whether to pay the janitor the same salary as the CEO? Or does it recognize that the value of one exceeds the value of the other?
But, that’s not really the issue anyway. All the NCAA would have to do in this case is recognize that Gurley own his name and likeness, and can profit from it. Far fewer people demand Brendan Douglas autographs than Gurley autographs. Therefore, Gurley autographs are worth more, and he can make more money from his name and likeness. It’s easy.
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While I agree the NFL has a part in this, I have consistently said that the NFL would support a developmental league if there was money in it for the league and the owners. The suits on Park Avenue and guys like Jerry Jones and Arthur Blank know “minor league” football is a break-even proposition at best and is likely a total money loser similar to NFL Europe.
I rarely watch a game on Sunday anyway. If Todd Gurley played for the Raleigh Roughriders of the NDFL instead of the University of Georgia, you couldn’t pay me to go watch it. If Nick Chubb played for a minor league affiliate of the Falcons, I wouldn’t know who he was if he walked up to me on the street and offered me his autograph.
If you only have 53 roster spots plus 5 practice squad members, a GM isn’t going to risk one of 7 draft picks on an 18-year-old kid who has been running over and through high schools defenses.
The NFL doesn’t “force colleges to develop their talent” in the same vein that the colleges don’t force the NFL to draft their players.
The bottom line is that college athletes should be able to market their names and likenesses without interference from the universities or the NCAA as long as it doesn’t interfere with their school and athletic responsibilities.
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Take away the three year rule the NFL has and you’ve solved the problem, no? Universities may decide it’s not worth their investment in facilities, training programs, etc if they have the top athletes for less than three years, but then it’s their decision to make. I would personally be fully for that.
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While I don’t think there should be a 3-year rule, I doubt repealing it would have much effect. Physical monsters like Gurley and Clowney could handle the NFL game after a year or two of college. But they are the exceptions to the rule. Even an elite 19 year-old athlete can’t typically stand up to playing against 25-35 year-old men.
So, if the NFL were to decide to allow players to be drafted straight from high school, or at any point in their college careers, we would probably never see a high school kid drafted, rarely see a kid drafted after one year of college, and occasionally see a kid drafted after two years of college.
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As mentioned above, the so-called value in current compensation (e.g. free education) can be debated too, never mind any additional compensation that perhaps should be offered given the billions currently at play. Taking the minimum hours of classes towards a general studies or housing degree, which will be pretty much worthless in the real world upon graduation, doesn’t exactly scream great value or fair compensation to me at all.
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I had never heard of a “General Studies” major until after college (I don’t UGA offers it?).
My lovely wife dated a guy before me that majored in General Studies and paid for a subscription to USA Today(!). I still giver her shit about it.
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I don’t think UGA has it, but its very popular elsewhere and is among the most pursued degrees among CFB players. UGA’s so-called easy majors are housing and communications, I believe. Also sports management.
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That JCDAWG thinks the scholarship argument is somehow novel kinda cracks me up. You can guarantee it’ll come up in any discussion about compensating players.
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When half the student body is on HOPE or some other scholarship, the “full ride” argument loses some weight. I got 4 years free for keeping a B average.
As to the “free development” I don’t think giving up any chance at making money to get coached up is “free.” Nor are all the hours given to the program (practice, mandatory study halls, lifting, “involuntary workouts”) “free”. The coaches likewise use the players to achieve great paying jobs and, often, to advance their careers.
Let’s put it like this, I worked in a lab in college. I’m sure I added some value to the prestige of the University by advancing research, and damn could I wash out some beakers well. Though I was getting HOPE and valuable skills for my career, they still paid me $7.25 an hour. Go figure.
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I trust Todd is getting good advice from the legal counsel provided to him and he enjoys being part of this team and this program.
You only live this life once and many have said the pro experience does not come close to the college experience as a player.
Todd is also insured and hard evidence of money changing hands for autographs does not appear to exist, so I believe it will come down to how much Todd wants to play college football.
My prediction is Todd sitting out two games for the initial $400 and playing in Jacksonville. I also predict this will ultimately be a UGA and Todd Gurley decision and not an NCAA decision.
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I think your prediction is spot on, BJ. UGA will be less aggressive than AU was with Newton or than FSU will be with Winston, but more aggressive than in the A.J. Greene case. I s’pose that’s some sort of progress.
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“Why should anybody care about us? We allow this corrupt system to exist.”
“The current system isn’t perfect, far from it, but it is not some plantation system where the players are exploited and taken advantage of while being given nothing in return.”
If what the first point is saying is that we are all responsible for Todd Gurley’s situation, then I agree, and have been agreeing.
To the second point, there are all forms of plantations, and from some points of view, college athletics qualifies.
That college football players “chop cotton” for the benefit of a corrupt system could not possibly be more obvious than it is now.
Players on scholarship EARN an education, many of them actually complete the requirements. Players on scholarship EARN the many benefits that come with the scholarship.
But players on scholarship are not GIVEN anything, and choice is a relative thing.
Anyone who does work for subsistence is in a plantation of one form or another. You may not like to think of your work place as a plantation, which is fine, but by any other name, plantations are plantations.
In this part of the country plantations recall another time in the past, and slavery.
And, while use of the term is effective to draw attention, Todd Gurley is not going to have the hounds turned loose on him if he leaves the plantation.
That the plantation can profit, hugely, because of Todd Gurley’s sweat and talent, and Todd Gurley risks censure and expulsion from the plantation for taking $400 is, to me, ludicrous.
Saying “he knew the rules” may have worked in another era, it no longer plays well.
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“but by any other name, plantations are plantations” where the Film of the Day®™© ℠ is always “3 Years a Slave,” a NCAA-NFL Feeder School officially sanctioned joint production condensed version of
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“Todd Gurley is not going to have the hounds turned loose on him if he leaves the plantation”
That’s the key there. Anyone who uses the plantation reference cheapens the struggle of one group of people brought against their will to become the personal property of another group of people and would have the hounds turned loose on them for trying to escape that situation. If you want to call it a “sweat shop” or something similar, that’s completely different. I would agree with that.
I’ve thought about this issue, and the idea of being paid for the use of your name and likeness isn’t unreasonable. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that it’s a basic human right.
What really got me thinking about this was seeing the “Gurley Girl,” “Give Gurley the Damn Ball,” etc. T-shirts for sale around Athens after the Tennessee game. Those shirts had no trademarks from Georgia on them, so it was a person completely profiting off Todd’s name. Frankly, it ticked me off as being completely unfair.
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Ok EE, I understand your concern…How bout Institutionally Supported Restricted Rights Sweatshops? (ISRRS).
And, while Todd Gurley may not have have to outrun UGA to get to the NFL, should not Todd Gurley had the right to finish his education, then decide if he wants to transfer his talents to the NFL Business?
Because, it would appear to me, the only way Todd Gurley can avoid the lash of the NCAA overseer for the Istitutionally Supported Restriced Rights Sweatshop is to drop out of school.
EE. I have thought about your concern and I must disagree.
I don’t believe using the plantation analogy cheapens anyone’s historical struggle, in fact I think it is a necessary acknowledgement that struggle continues, not just for the sons and grandsons and great grandsons of slaves, but for all men and women who struggle with an unfair workplace.
The plantation analogy should make you uncomfortable because it is accurate.
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The plantation was more than an unfair workplace. It was a place where human beings were treated like chattel by being bound in chains and forced to work under threat of physical violence, separation of your family, etc. It was against the law to teach slaves how to read.
To compare the college athletics experience to that is absolutely demeaning to the legacy of people who suffered horribly under that system.
I think I have been clear that I can’t stand the NCAA and its idiotic rules.
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I understand what slavery was like for the slaves, EE…or at least I understand it as much as any white person could.
I understand what slavery was like in the bomb factories of Nazi Germany.
And in Dachau.
It is my belief college athletics has become a plantation system where human beings ARE treated like chattel and the chains that bind them, while metaphorical, are no less real.
We are getting far beyond the facts of the case here, but it is my contention, with which you are welcome to disagree, that the “NCAA and its idiotic rules” and the reasons these idiotic rules exist, are as suffocating in many respects as life under Ole Massa.
If you would prefer I use “philosophical plantation” or some other phrase, if that makes you more comfortable, I will try to oblige.
No, the NCAA and its idiotic rules do not enforce an old South form of slavery, but it is my contention, too, that slavery has many faces, many forms, like it’s handmaiden, the devil.
I am sure we are not alone in our feelings of revulsion.
Thanks for your continued interest in the discussion.
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Scorp, I think we all agree the system isn’t fair for all involved especially the student-athlete and his/her family. I definitely think most people want to see real reform that enables student-athletes to be both student and athlete and be able to share in the revenue generated by this multi-billion business and allows the universities to provide educational opportunity to deserving student-athletes.
I think many would agree the current system works for a large segment of the student-athletes (those who will become professionals in areas other than sports) while sorely lacking for a small minority (those who are ready to turn professional but cannot due to professional sports leagues requirements in concert with the players’ unions).
We need you to start worrying about Arkansas and send your KBs over to Little Rock and FayetteNam to put the same hexes they used in Columbia on the Razorbacks. 🙂
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Yes, thank you … Send those KBs on over there. I am getting nervous about this one . What is it they say about the third week in Ocotber?😗
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Can We just get Gurley back on the field? Every game hell every day we drag this out we risk derailing a potentially special season, as well as shorten the best player in America’s UGA career.
Tell the NCAA we found nothing, Tell Allen we’ll ruin his life if he squeals, & put Gurley on the plane to little rock. For those keeping score at home Jameis has missed zero games related to autographs Gurley has already missed one and counting. FSU is also much less likely to get fucked by the NCAA.
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“Can We just get Gurley back on the field?”
No. He has been indefinitely renditioned for the greater good of the business model.
“FSU is also much less likely to get fucked by the NCAA.”
Sure but that given only increases our feelings of integrity and being better than everyone else.
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To paraphrase: I have been to the moral mountain top…Damn I feel good, but it sure is lonely.
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And from up here on the moral high ground I look below me and see all these little crystal footballs floating around….ohhhhh it does may you wonder.
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Stairway to Freebird makes me wonder about the NCAA theme song
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Get this picture….Mark Emmertt running around madly sticking corks in the dike…but the corks are all too small.
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Free Julie Roe Lach!
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That was excellent DIF
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They just need to ignore the NCAA’s unfair rule and go out and market themselves. If most of the atheletes do it, what can the NCAA do to stop it? Nothing. Safety in numbers. They cannot suspend over half the kids and they cannot televise games that aren’t played because of too many suspensions. All the players should organize for one Saturday and do civil disobedience to the point of openly selling their signatures on the town square of every university. It will stop that very day.
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Collegiate football is financially good for a lot of people. Those between the rock and the hard place are the players. They sit in 3 year window. How do you make it better for them? Time the NCAA, Athletic Boards, ADs, and University presidents come to a solution.
When a player, a University, and the seller have lawyered up, well, it raises the question of the depth and time of the issue…and how that runs against Dawgs SEC road schedule and roster. Enough that Green goes back to running back. But Green went both ways in 1-6A.
Green has good break away speed to the corner and the edge. Plus you can spell Chubb more. 35+ plus carries in any region in GHSA is not like that in the SEC, more so on a road schedule and a true freshman.
Good move by coaches this week with some receivers getting back in play, Langley freed up to the D, and hopefully Marshall and Michel coming back by JAX.
But the Dawgs goals are in Arkansas… no doubt. A solid win here will be taken notice by the Committee and the polls. Arkansas is a very dangerous team with very good players and coaches.
Just stay focused and committed to Arkansas and let the Gurley matter work itself out. No control for the players and coaches.
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If the schools were smart, then they would set up a rule on signing autographs now, that anything the player signs and the school sales is given to the player. They can take a 20-30% cut of it and make good money. Then they bypass this stupid situation, screw guys like Allen over, and have a way to keep their good players with plenty of money.
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Words like “amateur sport” and “free education” should never again be used in reference to college football. It’s a lie and just because people say it and wish it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a lie. It’s a damn shame that we’re still having top discuss this die to some who still live with their heads in the sand, enabling this BS to continue.
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That Colorado player from a few years ago saw the writing on the wall. Here we are 10-15 years later and nothing has changed because people keep spreading lies. The fact that this topic is as pushed as the game itself tells you there is a freaking imbalance.
Hell..I prefer college over pro, too, but we can give up the idea of innocence. Or we can lie to ourselves and continue to allow all the money to go to the fucks at the top. The American way…
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you are now writing out of emotion and not of logic. be careful or you will become a democrat!
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Thanks for the warning. I’ll try to be as logical as you are.
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…or a republican.
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or, God forbid, a college football fan.
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“It’s a rule so it has to be right.” This is the level of justification we’re at. Lol! smdh
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Future Nick Saban says…”Alabama players sell more autographs than any other university. Now I can’t guarantee how much you will make if you play for Alabama, but I can say that our fans and boosters love to have autographs from everyone on the roster, and I mean EVERYONE.”
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Too many great posts here to +1 them all.
Claps.
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And to Senator Blutarsky…thanks man for all you do by providing all us poor bastards out here on the lunatic fringe with a place to meet and debate…can I get your autograph?
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Was enjoying the give and take early and midway through this blog. People are beginning to think to the end of this problem and they were shooing away the subjective emotion that shuts down good give and take of a worthwhile argument. Some good thoughts were shared while holding the umbrella over heads to prevent the egging of the unpopular point of view. Thank you all. Many of those points should have been made earlier on in this argument before I became convinced that my cfb outlook was outdated and stopped arguing.
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Wonder if everyone would be giving us a pass if Gurley won the Heisman last year? What about if the team had won the NC last year and was currently #2 and about to face #5 Notre Shame? This is really happening…
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Sorry to thread jack but….who is carrying the Dogs vs Hogs game on the widescreen?
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I believe it’s the SEC Network if that’s what you’re asking, AHD
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Thax
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No one makes any player go to any college. You say they are exploited. They have the option of working our for 3 years after high school and then trying to get drafted. If college football is so bad, don’t play. If players are allowed to be compensated beyond an equal stipend or the equivalent, the college football will have 2 or three teams who buy all the best players and the entertainment we enjoy will be gone. Those who want wholesale changes in the system, be careful what you ask for.
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Your argument is disingenuous. The path to the NFL is through college. You could just as easily advise a high school student who wants to be a lawyer to forgo college and law school and just start studying to pass the bar exam. Some states allow that path. But it’s nearly impossible to pull off for practical purposes.
Also, given the 85 scholarship limit, how would a few teams hoard all the top athletes? I just don’t see how allowing a kid to profit off his own name would spell the doom and gloom that you anticipate.
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This thread like most goes off track. There is a difference in being paid to play football and having to give up your rights to your own property rights and your right to your likeness. I personally think the judge in O’Bannon was trying o get the NCAA to roll over when she capped the likeness stuff at $5,000.00. If what the NCAA is doing is wrong then a $5,000.00 cap is also legally wrong. I guess the Federal Courts believe that you can be a little pregnant. As much as I hate to contemplate it, this thing will not be settled until Congress does something. It maybe they tell the NCAA that they are dreaming if they think Congress is going to give them an exemption. That to me is the thread by which the NCAA and the schools are hanging. The cost of continued litigation, even if the schools are making millions, will begin to draw down the parties and the public pressure will turn even more as the NCAA and schools are perceived to be fighting for the almighty dollar.
The NCAA and the schools have an even bigger axe over their heads and the recent settlement for concussions did not close the issue but insured a steady stream of lawsuits for years to come. The NCAA is just like Nero, they fiddle while Rome (college sports) ignite.
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What do you propose?
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I don’t know what he proposes, but I propose we read Bluto’s next post and worry our asses off about Arkansas. 🙂
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Don’t let the schools pay them for football, but if they can get $100 for showing up at a car dealership, who the hell cares? Isn’t working in college okay for all the other kids? Wouldn’t it be kind of fun for the fans?!
If you want to cap the price and frequency of public appearances and autographs to make sure the boosters aren’t buying you a football team outright, and to be within 250% of a typical college student’s income or whatever, I think that’s reasonable enough…it’s not ideal, but it’s better than what we’ve got.
Truly, though – just repeal the sweetheart collusion exemption for the NFL and NCAA and the kids who want or need to play ball for money right out of high school will go to the football minors, and you won’t have to worry about it quite so much.
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This is a hell of a thread. One of the reasons I love this blog.
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Blutarsky –
Like all liberals you’re relentless. Your tiny brains get wrapped around a social agenda, in this case “pay for play” and you vomit on us until we roll over and play dead. You believe your cause de jour is the result of superior intellect and therefore is preordained to succeed. Unfortunately your kind is incapable of properly calculating the side effects of these schemes or has any clue on how to implement them with any degree of success.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Owed to Aristotle.
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I thought liberals were closet socialists. Shouldn’t that make me pro-NCAA?
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Liberals are no longer closet socialists… they’re going live with their pronouncement.
Interestingly, liberals are often confused, because they can’t track the plethora of agenda items on their memo card. For example, liberals want to protect Muslims and call anyone who questions their beliefs racists, bigots and Islamaphobes. The conflict occurs when one points out how they treat women and non-Muslims. Ooppss! Hence the current conflict between Bill Maher and the ultra PC wing of the progressive movement.
In this particular case you’re betwixt and between free market capitalism and “social justice”. You find yourself holding your nose and siding with Wall St., rather than be seen as insensitive to the oppressed inner city kids who should profit from their on field exploits… “They own their name, rah, rah, rah!” To justify this temporary siding with free market capitalism you must demonize someone and portraying the NCAA as modern day plantation masters meets the need.
Liberalism is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum surrounded by stupidity.
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So the free market is a socialist plot. Who knew?
The things you learn watching Fox News.
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How’s your reading comprehension?
I understand the editor for Huffpo wants you to start a blog with their new reporter, Michael Moore.
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You keep throwing these angry word salads out hoping somebody will “comprehend” them… LOL.
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I’m confused. Is the Senator a jihadist now? Or is Todd Gurley? Insha Allah.
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If we don’t let the NCAA uphold its amateurism model, the terrorists win.
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At least a few who are relentless know that someone
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/10/new-photos-of-nsa-and-others/
is keeping track of what goes on in the parking lots
https://mobile.twitter.com/kashhill/status/519106391617720321
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You’re exactly backward. Bluto is the free market proponent. As such, he doesn’t have to calculate side effects or scheme about implementation. The market takes care of that for him. If an inefficiency pops up, the market doesn’t have to wait for a vote of school presidents before the invisible hand steers resources where they should go. It’s a thing of beauty.
It’s the social engineers like you and Mark Emmert who believe that you can mold society in your own image without any negative consequences. Well, you’re mistaken. The collective wisdom of the thousands (millions?) of participants in the market far outstrip the wisdom of the NCAA, or even you. I hope that’s not too upsetting for you.
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Hello, I’m not the one trying to tamper with the rules or system.
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Right. Because the current system that you favor is one of social engineering. You can’t just let the market compensate players like Gurley. That would ruin everything. Better to let Emmert act as the commissar of college football and accuse everyone who favors the free market of being a communist. Very Orwellian of you.
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Have you died yet?
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Have you been impaled by a seatless unicycle yet?
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Didn’t McGarity say last week that he would have something to say on this matter early this week?
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