We had another lively discussion yesterday about what kind of faith to put in the ability of Georgia’s administration to find a replacement for Mark Richt one day. There was one comment in particular that I thought deserved a more full-blown response than another comment.
Here’s are some factors I think influence coaches to prefer one job over the other:
History, tradition, etc
Recruiting base
Support from the AD/ school administration
Facilities
Pay
Authority/Autonomy
Support from boosters & the amount of butt kissing required to get it
Pressure to win
Talent to win right away
Challenge to coach in the SEC (or if they prefer, easier path to playoffs, etc)I’m sure there are more, but it’s late and maybe no one will read this ’cause we’ll be onto a new thread tomorrow.
In which of those areas does Arkansas have the edge over UGA? Less pressure, and….what?
And you guys don’t think I pay attention to you.
Seriously, Arkansas is an interesting comparison in this case. I think most of us are guilty of greater familiarity with our program than with those of our rivals and I’m no exception to that, so take some of what I say with skepticism, if you like. I also suspect that many of you fervently believe that Georgia is a better coaching destination than Arkansas and that it’s not really a close call.
With that in mind, I’d say the one significant advantage Athens holds over Fayetteville is the depth of the recruiting pool available to each. As far as the comparative economics go, it’s a much closer call than many of you might think. Per USA Today’s financial chart, Georgia generates a little more revenue, but Arkansas actually spends a little more money on its athletics. (And there are several SEC programs who generate bigger numbers on both sides of the ledger than either of these two do.) You tell me what that means from a support standpoint.
And I’m not trying to be one here, but any supporter of Georgia’s program making a facilities argument can be shut up with one acronym: IPF.
The last word for me, though, boils down to someone we generally loathe, Bobby Petrino. His shortcomings as a human being are only exceeded by his skill as a football coach, which is why he keeps getting jobs. But here’s the thing – when he soured on the Falcons, he obviously leaked word quietly that he wanted out and was on the market. Jeff Long snapped him up before the rest of the world knew what was happening. Can anybody seriously imagine Greg McGarity moving as quickly to capitalize on an opportunity to sign a rock star coach, or, even if he was so prepared to act, that his higher-ups would let him go at warp speed? Does that sound like the Georgia Way to you?
Get The Picture 
I’d also argue that Arkansas isn’t surrounded on all sides by hypercompetitive programs that must heavily recruit their state in order to computer. The amount of talent the state cranks out is both a blessing and a curse because of our neighbors and b/c Tech doesn’t do its part in not letting it leave.
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Texas is right there. And they’re having to fight A&M, UT, and OU (and now Baylor and TCU and Houston – Houston?) for the talent. Not the same as Georgia – more like a Tennessee situation.
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Don’t forget Bama, LSU, and Missouri
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Missing my point. Those schools you listed aren’t trying to raid AR for talent. They go to TX. All of UGA’s neighbors target GA talent.
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I didn’t miss your point. They don’t raid Arkansas often because the talent isn’t there.
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All the SEC teams have money to pay an elite coach and the elite schools tend to have the tougher coaching environment. It shouldn’t shock anyone that Hugh Freeze decided to stay at Ole Miss instead of migrating to Florida.
Is UGA a better job? Perhaps. Our strengths are easy recruiting, a kinder fan base, and job security. The only place we beat Arkansas is easy recruiting.
btw, A better question is whether the Tennessee job is better than Arkansas. Same money, same inbred fan base, same facilities, same amount of local football talent, but Arkansas is happy to win 8 games and beat Bama once a decade.
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I don’t think Arkansas is anything close to happy to just win 8 games a year and beat Alabama once a decade.
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Agreed my dad is from Arkansas and they had a long stretch of winning and beating Texas in the SEC. They are not happy now.
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And we are not happy with 10 wins a year, but Mark Richt is still the coach. It’s going to take a lot of years for Arkansas to fire a coach who is winning 8 games a year, and at $4 million a year that time is good to the coach’s bank account.
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“Is UGA a better job?” Absolutely, from a job security point of view
My guess is that if the CMR we all know and love had been a head coach at any SEC West program, Florida or Tennessee, he would have been pushed out of the plane with a multi-million dollar parachute a long time ago and they would have thrown in a girl with him as a departing gift
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Not to speak for the fire Richt crowd, but I was assuming most wanted UGA to get an up an comer that had been winning with lesser talent (which then was always countered by the “Richt has a better resume” argument–rinse and repeat for years ongoing). The “lets hire a big name guy” was always fodder for sports talk. I don’t remember seeing too much of that around here.
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The BM crowd is famously cheap, they will never go hire away a proven big name coach, they will always look for an up and comer they can get for a bargain price. I don’t have a real problem with that as long as they go get an actual D1 head coach. No more coordinators or 1AA coaches.
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I agree with you on that, but even up and comers don’t come cheap these days. Wait and see what the market for Tom Herman looks like.
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I disagree strongly. BM spent the $$ to get Pruitt and CBS. Today, I think BM/ADGM realize a “head coach” will require $4MM/yr – a “rock star” $5MM/yr+. Is 1MM/yr that big of a difference? And while we’re at it, why all the misconception that ADGM is incapable of hiring a quality HC? He hasn’t had to yet….so his record is untarnished and clean as far as I am concerned.
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Never mind all those other coaches GM’s hired. He only wants excellence in football, eh?
Helluvan AD there.
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I get that you are terrified that if Richt were fired that the AD would botch the hire, but what is your ultimate endgame? You know that after at most a few more mediocre seasons MR is going to retire to do his missionary work. So what then? If MR retires rather than gets pushed out somehow that’s gonna make the AD a better hirer? Your apparent nightmare is going to come sooner or later.
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I don’t have an end game per se. My point is that I’m pushing back against people who I think have an overly optimistic idea of what a transition from firing Richt would look like. Replacing a successful coach – and like it or not, Richt’s resume should be characterized as such – is a crap shoot generally. With an organization that has B-M’s history, the odds are strong that the first man won’t be any better.
This is no different than the effort I made in August to curb the unbridled enthusiasm for Lambert, despite his track record.
I’m a fan, but I’m also a realist. Things generally aren’t as easy as some people insist.
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By that same logic, Alabama should go ahead and replace Saban. He won’t live forever, so they will need another coach at some point. Why not go ahead and get it over with?
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No. It’s not at all logical to replace a guy with multiple nattys. MR on the other hand hasn’t even won the conference in 10 years or the division when UF and UT were down. I mean seriously I get it. You’re terrified of a post MR era. To bring in your logic Mike Shula should still be Bama’s coach.
Half of you guys on here should never go to Vegas bc even the nickel slots would terrify you.
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No, you don’t get it. Coaches who win >75% of their games and multiple, and regular, SEC championships don’t just grow on trees. Replacing one is a risk. A big one. It’s like playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in the cylinder. Sure, you might get lucky. But you probably won’t.
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In the history of the SEC, has a coach ever gone 10+ years between conference titles? You have a window to win, then your competitors adjust to you and the window closes. It’s not supernatural. Richt has won his last championship of any kind in Athens.
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+1000. But apparently being cool with mediocrity is the true Georgia way. That and being so terrified of change that several yearly chokes are cool with you
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Redefining mediocrity doesn’t support your argument. And neither does misrepresenting someone who acknowledges the difficulty of winning >75% of the time as a chicken.
I’m sure Boom would happily take over Richt’s job. Or Kiffin. Or maybe even Spurrier. At least it would be a change, amirite? It couldn’t possibly blow up in our faces, amirite?
Come on.
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Regular SEC champs would be one in less than 10 years you’d agree? So as I asked the senator, what is your endgame or plan? You know after a couple more mediocre seasons MR is going to retire and focus on his missionary work(which is admirable) but I’d be amazed if he lasts 3 more years. So your nightmare is coming soon. Why not pull off the band aid now? If you seriously think MR is going to win a natty let alone the SEC in the next 3 years I’ve got some beachfront property in Valdosta to sell you.
So if the program is going to be a train wreck for a few years after MR why not start it now so in those 3 or whatever years the program can be back on track?
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I’m not arguing that Richt wins regular SEC championships. I’m acknowledging your position that UGA should demand a coach who wins regular SEC championships.
Unlike you, I’m not privy to Richt’s innermost thoughts and plans for the immediate future. I don’t know if he wants to coach for 2 more years or 20. So, I think your deadline of 3 years is made up and flagellant.
But, yes, Richt will retire one day and UGA will have to find a coach. But, Saban will also retire one day and Bama will need to find a coach. If UGA should rush to replace Richt with what will probably be a coach of lesser ability, why shouldn’t Bama?
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You’be mentioned 75% winning percentage several times. In today’s day and age, 75% doesn’t mean what it used to mean. Start with 4 cupcakes, Vandy, and Kentucky and that should be 6 wins year in- and year out. Obviously, years we play Clemson aren’t loaded with 3 cupcakes, but since that only happens twice every 10 years, those games are the anomaly. So, after those six wins, CMR and UGA only need to be 50% against GT, Mizzou, USCe, UT, UF, Auburn and the rotational opponent from the West to reach 9-3. Tech, Mizzou and USCe SHOULD be wins almost every year, which gets you there. One win out UF, UT and Auburn to make up for every face plant against the other 9 teams.
The bottom line is, that if you’re satisfied with 75% winning percentage at UGA, you are satisfied with mediocrity given UGA’s talent and resources.
There is no arguing the point, there is only burying your head in the sand.
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Your analysis is flawed in only one respect. You forgot to look at the rest of college football. If 75% is the new floor for what is acceptable at a big time program, then there should be tons of coaches out there with higher winning percentages, right?
What’s that? There aren’t? Well how can that be? Mark Richt is among the national leaders in winning percentage and the only coach ranked higher than him that spent all of a >10 year career at a P5 school is Bob Stoops. Inconceivable!!
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Don’t compare UGA to the rest of college football. Compare UGA to our peers. We shouldn’t relish that we have a better winning % than Iowa, Maryland, etc. An elite coach would get great results relative to his peers at similar institutions and with similar resources.
We can all define elite in different ways, but IMO elite coaches at powerhouse programs win more than 75% and compete for conference championships regularly. The fact that the Meyers and Sabans of the world generally don’t stay at a place 10 years diminishes the numbers and your “inconceivable” stat.
There isn’t one coach who has had more talent than UGA has had and not won a NC since 2001. Greene, Shockley, Stafford, Murray, Green, Conley, Moreno, Gurley, Chubb, Houston, Jarvis Jones, Ogletree, Boykin, etc.
A decent analysis shouldn’t compare CMR to Butts, Dooley, et al either. It should evaluate the present. Three cupcakes + KY + Vandy should be 5 automatic wins/year. That leaves GT, FL, UT, Mizzou, USCe, Auburn, and the rotational west division opponent. GT, Mizzou and USCe should be wins every year (that’s 8 wins). So winning all the games we should, plus one out of Auburn, the other west team, UT and FL is elite?
I just hurled as I typed that question. That’s how elite 75% is.
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Ok. You are the AD. Name the coach and the price. In sure we’ll all be very impressed. It’s easy to bitch. It’s hard to make a decision and be accountable for it.
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Depends what you mean by accountable. 🙂
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Exactly. The actual AD is accountable to everyone. Throwing out a coach and a price on this blog means you’re only accountable to the people reading here. We’ll see if he’ll bite and admits it isn’t easy. Then we’ll see how popular and wise his call appears to the rest of us.
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Is the AD really accountable? Mike Hamilton was able to stay at UT after hiring Kiffin, Pearl, and Dooley, plus he got a $1.3 million buy out when he left.
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Tom Herman. I offer him 5 years $35 million and I give him a $7million/year budget for coaches.
Promise to spend $100million on football over then next 5 years including salaries.
If there isnt a title/playoff appearance in 5 years, clean house and start over. Huge bonus for SEC championship, playoff, national title. Say 15%/25%/35%
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Seven million dollars a year for a guy with one year’s experience as a head coach? Jesus.
Of course, it’s easy to spend someone else’s money. 😉
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By the time the next round of raises is processed this off season the minimum in the SEC is going to be more than $5million.
But yeah, its someone else’s money and I dont actually get the call the shots.
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You just don’t want to win. 😉
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7mil a year for a guy whose coached 5 games in a nothing conference? Are you mike Hamilton?
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Cleaning house means losing your entire recruiting class like Tennessee did. Do that every 5 years and you will never win a championship.
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And how many championships have MR’s stellar recruiting classes won in the previous ten years? FFS. TG3 was probably the best college player since HW and we managed to waste him.
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Oh and who won that UT/UGA game?
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Ahh. The classic MR strawman argument. Well who you gonna get to replace him with? People that make a lot more $ than you or i have that call. If you’re happy with mediocrity then you’re golden for now. But you do know your idol will probably be pushed out or retire in a few right? So at some point your nightmare will come true. Then what? You’ll be 3 years older and the supposed horrible hires will ruin the program for longer.
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The argument that it’s better to suck than to be pretty good, but not great is interesting to me. I’ll admit that I just can’t wrap my head around it.
I can appreciate that you passionately want UGA to ditch MR so that we will go ahead and suck. I’m just not sure why. If you believed that the college football fairy would leave the next Bear Bryant under GM’s pillow as soon as he puts MR’s resignation letter under there, I could understand. I would disagree, but I have young kids, so I get it.
But you’re not even making that argument. You’re arguing that going 6-6 with a new coach in 2016 would be preferable to going 9-3 under Richt. Aside from personal animosity toward Richt, I don’t get it.
Are you just so personally invested in UGA’s football team that you feel Richt’s missteps are a personal betrayal to you? If so, I suggest you get some perspective. As a wise man once said, “It’s just a game, dog.”
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Maybe. But then again, we’re not out of this season at 9-3 yet.
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I’m just using MR’s career winning percentage to say that, if 2016 were an average year, he would go 9-3. That’s an elite winning percentage on a national basis, but it’s not good enough to win the SEC in particular year.
And I understand the misguided and erroneous belief that hiring a coach that consistently goes 11-1 or 12-0 would be as easy and announcing the job and letting the line of applicants form behind the ghost of Bear Bryant.
But what I don’t understand is the opinion that winning fewer than 9 games a year with a guy who isn’t Mark Richt is better than winning 9 games a year with Richt. The only sane reason I can come up with for holding that opinion is seeing Richt’s losses as a personal betrayal.
It’s like being married to a perfect 10 who cheats on you. You just focus on your hurt feelings and want to move on to a less-than-perfect 6 who promises to treat you right.
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9-3 is clearly not elite against our schedule. It would be elite if a Maryland coach got to 9-3 every year, but not for an UGA coach in the SEC East during an era when UF and UT are down.
Also, I disagree with your assessment that anyone is arguing that it would be better to go 6-6 with a different coach than it is to average 9-3 with CMR.
Rather, the argument is actually that some of us believe that we could hire a better coach (probability we believe that is high), but that we acknowledge we might hire a worse coach (probability low).
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You’re arguing that an ACC team winning 9 games would be more impressive than an SEC team winning 9 games? Riiight.
Go back and read scottdavid’s posts. He’s stating exactly that it would be better to go ahead and suck now rather than suck later. Why he believes that, I have no idea.
And I understand that you believe that the coaching fairy would put the next Bear Bryant under McGarity’s pillow if he would only put Richt’s resignation letter under there. That’s adorable. I’m simply acknowledging that the coaching fairy doesn’t exist. McGarity and the powers that be will have to make their own decisions on the next coach and I haven’t seen anything yet to give my much confidence that they’re guaranteed (or very likely) to succeed.
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Maryland isn’t in the ACC anymore. That aside, winning 75% in the SEC is harder at UGA than some other places…but it’s still not elite given our schedule: 3 cupcakes, Vandy, KY, etc.
I’m not saying we will definitely get a better coach than CMR. But the probability is very high that better coaches would be interested in the job if it were open.
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Disagree on the cheapness. They’ve made, what, one basketball/football hire in the last decade+. In that one hire, they reportedly were dangling big bucks for Mike Anderson (only to get him a raise). I think they were willing to pony up for a proven basketball coach but were unable to due to the relative unattractiveness of our basketball program. Who’s to say they wouldn’t do the same for a Richt replacement (if that were to happen), minus the unattractiveness problem?
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Funny. And Mike Anderson ended up where again? It’s the circle of life!
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The original post wasn’t about luring a head coach away from another program. It was about competing with other programs for the pool of labor.
Some of us believe that the best coaching candidates will gladly eschew all the other programs out there in order to be at UGA. Some of us believe that there’s nothing that special about UGA, or perhaps there’s even some serious disadvantages, and therefore, the best candidates won’t be so quick to move to Athens.
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It’s not that I have a lack of confidence in the McGarity, et al to not make a good hire, it’s that I have total confidence in them to selfishly and stubbornly go against the grain simply because they can’t help it.
The frog and the scorpion, people, the frog and the scorpion.
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et al to make (in the first line above)
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this is the truth. Herman or whatever hot young awesome win the presser and the title coach could call up begging for the job and ADGM would probably hang up the phone while slamming his dick in the desk drawer.
And then hire whatever sunbelt coach would do it for less.
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If you look at the recruiting base, the overall facilities, the school, the place to live, the pay and the complete lack of pressure, there is no better job than Georgia.
Win 8 games and beat a middle of the pack ACC tech team 4 out of 5 years and a coach has a job for life.
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In what 5 year window as Richt averaged only 8 wins a year? I’ll hang up and listen. It could be true, but my recollection of our records doesn’t add up to winning 8.
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At this point with Adams gone I doubt even McGarity and the administration know how many and who they will have to get approval from to hire a coach. Leebern, the governor, Hairy Dog, Uga, who? Lots of folks gonna want to be on the vetting committee when that time comes. If we keep on talking about it, it will be sooner rather than later.
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Round and round it goes
The argument if Richt should go
I said round and round and round and round
We just got pasted at home
It seems real apparent to me
That he’ll never win the SEC
I think that Richt should goooo-o-o-ooo
On and on it goes
The argument if Richt should go
I said on and on and on and on
He just needs some Jimmys and Joes
Nobody out there looks better to me
Besides, do you trust McGarity?
We’ll lose if Richt should goooo-o-o-ooo
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I realize it is a long, long time since Theron broke the drought, but still the think Mark Richt absolutely cannot do is lose to Tech on a regular basis.
If Jesus was the head coach at Georgia and lost three or four in a row to Tech, he would be in the unemployment line. (Unless ole Jeez had Jimmy Sexton.)
That’s the only thing that will get Mark Richt fired.
What about Mizzou?
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Donnan would agree with you…
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This is truth. Richt isn’t leaving on his own and he’s not getting fired unless the wheels totally come off (i.e., lose to Auburn and Tech).
I don’t know that he’d survive two in a row vs Tech – I think he probably would, but I’m not sure. If it caps a 7 win season, maybe not.
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Exactly and that factored heavily in dumping Donnan. Sadly, the board thinks beating Tech now is like beating them in the 60’s or the 50’s.
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Most of the board members grew up trained to believe that Tech was the only rival Georgia had.
You would think that this is not the case any more would filter down, and it has, until we lose to Tech….then all the old Theron Sapp-thinking bubbles to the surface.
You think the wailing, moaning and gnashing of dentures is bad after losing to Bama and UT?
Stop by if we lose to Tech again if you think that outdated model does not still exist in the minds of many, many of the visitors here. Too.
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Nothing better than beating Florida, nothing worse than losing to Tech.
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I can see McGarity moving quickly, I can not see the higher up allowing it.
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Senator,
I’m sure you have all sorts of contacts to your program…what sort of odds are their on Richt not being your coach next year?
There’s obviously a lot of chatter on here about it, but what’s the real temperature on his seat now?
I’ll hang up and listen,
BD
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I’m not nearly as well connected as everyone thinks I am, but I doubt Richt’s job is in serious jeopardy for the next year at least, as long as the Dawgs don’t miss a bowl game this season.
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Unless he leaves on his own accord, CMR is the Coach next year. Too much invested in Staff etc to cut bait now.
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If you look at average wins and losses per year (adjusting for the extra game added) Richt is only slightly better than Donnan over his career
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yeah, that’s called a winning percentage and 75% is not “slightly” better than 67.8%. but YMMV
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There’s also the not so little matter of Donnan consistently losing to our 4 main rivals while Richt has done much better against them, with winning records against Tennessee, Auburn and Tech, and 3 of the past 4 against the Gators. That was Donnan’s downfall.
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Except Richt has good records against the biggest rivals save Florida. Donnan couldn’t beat Tech, Florida, Auburn, or Tennessee.
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At this time last year, Michigan had Brady Hoke as its coach and Dave Brandon as the athletic director. Michigan had lost three in a row and has so comically mishandled the concussion suffered by Shane Morris – both on the field and then in the resulting media firestorm – that students were protesting the athletic department. I would have never thought that in a matter of two months, the AD would be pushed out, Hoke would be fired, an interim AD would be appointed, and he would then reel in a guy from the NFL who had the fourth-best regular season winning percentage in league history.
The point is that traditional, slow-moving organizations can change. In Michigan’s case, the new university president – a chemistry nerd with no interest in sports – figured out how much time he would have to spend on an athletic department that was bleeding money as a result of a struggling football program. Thus, he authorized the interim AD to pay top dollar for Harbaugh as a wise investment (and thereby allow the president to spend his time on what he truly thinks is important). The fact that the stadium was half-full and the students were demonstrating,created the conditions for change. The final straw for Brandon was MGoBlog publishing his nasty emails to fans, suggesting that they find another team.
Applied to UGA, the big problems that you face with respect to forcing substantial change are two-fold. First, McGarity isn’t as much of an ass as Brandon was, so you are less likely to get a flashpoint with him. (Much as I like to imagine you playing the Brian Cook role of publishing emails that function as the last straw in getting the AD fired.) Second, you don’t have an obvious candidate like Harbaugh. The closest I can see is Kirby Smart, who is underwhelming, and Mike Bobo, who is untested. That said, if fans demonstrate their dismay by no longer buying tickets, making donations, and showing up to buy overpriced cokes, then the administration will notice. As at Michigan, the football program at UGA funds the entire athletic department. (Possibly moreso because UM basketball makes more money. I’d guess that UM hockey and UGA gymnastics are the third sports that can break even. Everything else requires a subsidy.) Threaten the financial stability of the athletic department and you’ll see how proactive people at Georgia get about finding ways to ensure that UGA is competitive in football in the future.
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“Threaten the financial stability of the athletic department and you’ll see how proactive people at Georgia get about finding ways to ensure that UGA is competitive in football in the future.”
Of course, but at the moment, “being competitive” at least for the purposes of this discussion, is a moving target and presents a considerable road block to the “Fire Richt Yesterday” folks…”being competitive” means different things to almost everybody who visits here.
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Bobo currently is 2-4 at CSU. I think that qualifies as underwhelming.
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IPF? You’d think not having one – having to practice in rough conditions -would have given us an advantage against Bama. Oh well. Glad we’re getting one just to keep up.
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Biggus Rickus, that is cool, man.
That is great, dude. Put that in the SID and AD’s hands to ponder.
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I suppose there are some similarities, but the differences between UGA and arky are pretty stark. As @gatriguy said, we are surrounded by other schools that absolutely must recruit GA to survive. And with the 5+ million Atlanta area, we have the largest city in the southeast nearby (TV, recruits, fan base, etc.).
UGA is a sleepwalking giant. I truly believe that, and feel most alumns, fans, and media would agree with me. It’s just a matter of ditching the ‘awe shucks’ laid back attitude and getting our shit together.
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And I’m sure a lot of cfb coaches look on us with envy. No doubt many a coach ponders ‘the things I could achieve if only I had the resources UGA has.’
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It seems to me that recruiting is a national game now. Atlanta is a city of transplants. Walking around a metro high school one sees gear from dozens of different colleges. UGA has no monopoly.
Also, just look at other teams in great recruiting areas (Texas, USC, Florida, Miami). Oregon has better athletes than most (all?) of those schools.
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USC recruits on a different level than Oregon and always has. Kelly’s offense made up for the difference most (emphasis) of the time.
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In the past, yes. But Oregon has caught up on recruiting. In the 2015 NFL draft, Oregon had 5 players drafted. USC had 6 players drafted. In 2014, Oregon had 4 players drafted to USC’s 3.
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That’s only one metric, but it’s not even close if you take a bigger view. Here are the recruiting rankings (24/7, Rivals, Scout):
USC ’15: 2 / 1 / 1
USC ’14: 10 / 10 / 10
Oregon ’15: 15 / 17 / 15
Oregon ’14: 21 / 26 / 22
Fact is that Oregon has never recruited as well as USC, even during sanctions.
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UGA will hire a high price consultant firm to do a search, no B-M would not move fast. They need the insulation of a search firm just in case he gets a dubose type hire.
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Maybe, but the Pruitt and Schotty hires were done quietly. I think they would keep things as quiet as possible.
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We all have different perceptions on the UGA program, and on what factors are most important to coaches who are looking for jobs. And that’s cool because the actual coaches are going to value things differently, too.
I don’t think Chip Kelly is going to think to himself “I love the NFL, but those Georgia Bulldogs just need me to get over the hump…I want that challenge”. But chances are, he’s not on his last coaching stop and he will be looking for another challenge someday. The same goes for some other A+ coaches (Carroll, Harbaugh).
The question is whether UGA is the same program that hired Goff, Donnan and Richt (who had no HC experience at the time)? Or is it better? I think it is way better: 1) The talent in the state has gotten better (or at least the perception of it has). 2) The prestige of the SEC has grown. 3) The prestige of the program has grown (thanks in large part to CMR). 4) BM’s support for the program over the last year has taken a drastic step up.
I think those factors would help us hire a coach with a better resume than we’ve hired in the past. It won’t help us if that coach values the highest paycheck, or puts a ton of weight into UGA being the last to get an IPF.
But I think by far the two most important factors to prospective A+ coaches are pay and the ability to recruit great players. Great coaches want to get paid, and to win right away. They can do that at UGA. UGA may or may not choose to pay $7M/year (but they certainly wouldn’t do it for Herman).
Now, I don’t see CMR or Brian Kelly getting fired, so the following is hypothetical…
But what if the Eagles fire Kelly and he reaches out to BM, and that info gets leaked…do you think BM will turn it down because he asked for $7-8M/year? I don’t know them as well as some of y’all, but I do understand the skepticism. But in the end, I think the pressure to hire him would be too great.
I think there is a lot of history that colors perception of the program on message boards (Goff, Donnan, Evans, Adams, etc) that doesn’t mean squat to a coach evaluating the program today. Yeah, they look at stability but UGA has shown a lot of patience with CMR. And some of these coaches don’t stick around at programs too long anyways. But mainly they want to know if they can win now, get support from the AD now, etc. And UGA is a very attractive place for that.
Now I know that if a coach like Carroll or Kelly is looking for a job, UGA would have competition going after them…but how many schools would have a better shot at getting them if they want to go to a program that can win right now?? Alabama, FSU, Notre Dame, OSU, and Michigan have their coaches. I don’t see Stoops or McElwain leaving in the next 2-3 years at least. Ditto for Sumlin, Dabo, Mora, and Franklin. Utah isn’t a long term contender, and I think Gus will on the plains for awhile. USC is looking, and Texas could be in the next year or two (but I’m pulling for Strong).
So if a big name coach came up, where would a big named coach look….USC, and UGA (assuming the job was open which it won’t be, IMO).
I reject categorically that Arky is a good comparison for UGA (or that recruiting is the only big edge we have on them). If you like Fayetteville even more than I do, maybe you can give that to them but ahem, Athens. If you think the SEC West has an easier path to the SEC CG….actually, I’m pretty sure no one thinks that. They do not have the history that UGA has in football. They don’t have the talent to win right now.
It is entirely possible I put too much weight on the recruiting edge UGA has, because that’s what I’d look for if I was a football coach.
I’ll close by saying I don’t want CMR fired until the end of the season at the earliest (barring unforseen buffoonery like Sark’s and Hoke’s which we don’t expect because CMR isn’t a drunk or hell bent on winning with a punch-drunk QB). In fact, I don’t want him fired at all (assuming the team doesn’t quit on him), until he has at least a couple years with a full roster, and the kind of support he is now getting from BM.
I just don’t buy the Dawgrading of the program. UGA is one of the elite programs and we should expect more than we have in the past the next time we hire a HC.
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It’s not Dawgrading. It’s the opposite.
Georgia is a program that perceives itself as better than it is.
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THANKS OBA— i mean, RICHT
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Make Georgia great again!
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Why not, anything’s possible!
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How do you define “Georgia is a program that perceives itself as better than it is.”?
UGA isn’t a program with elite resources? or the UGA base sees it self as 1 season away from the team putting everything together and isn’t?
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Not speaking for Bluto, although I agree with him. But I define the disconnect between perception and reality as neither of your options.
Yes, UGA has elite resources. Every SEC team does. But UGA has proven less willing to tap into those resources than most other teams.
Also, not that the fans believe that the team is just one year away, but that many fans, including many here, believe that there’s something just so wonderful about UGA, or Athens, that coaches will ignore any drawbacks in order to have the chance to step between the hedges. I don’t see that.
If I were a coaching candidate, I would be awfully tempted by an offer with more money and autonomy. Even if that offer meant moving away from Athens.
Hell, most of us here don’t live in Athens. And we didn’t move away for the reward of millions of dollars. Most of us chose to live elsewhere over thousands of dollars.
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This is the other thing about Richt that has shaped the expectations of the fan base, even his detractors. UGA fans take it for granted that because Richt clearly doesn’t want to leave Athens, every other coach will share that attitude. He’s the exception. Most coaches are happy to wander if the price is right.
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Georgia fans percieve the program as one that should be superior to other institutions regardless of the fact that the others cover up wrongdoing by the players, have less punitive drug policies, are willing to stonewall the NCAA, bait and switch recruits into greyshirts, and many other “win at all costs” measures that as far as I know, Georgia eschews. We (I) love to pat ourselves on the back for what a good, clean program we have until we lose.
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I agree there is certainly some of that (i.e. thinking we were awesome after Lambert went 24/25). But that’s typical fan enthusiasm & hope getting out of hand.
I am curious where you and others grade the program, because I think we’re clearly a more attractive program than we were when the Goff, Donnan and Richt hires were made. I think we’re clearly top 20, with a very good argument to be in the Top-10.
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I think that the powers that be probably believe that Richt is the perfect coach.
He’s #5 in FBS winning percentage. He’s won the SEC twice and the East six times. He’s been to a bowl game every year he’s coached. If he were to retire after this season, he will be in the CFB Hall of Fame.
He’s also publicly stated that he wants to be a lifer in Athens. He’s never pulled any nonsense about flirting with other programs in order to get a raise. His salary is in the bottom half of the SEC. Bert and Dan Mullin make more money than Richt does.
He also publicly support whatever asinine positions the administration comes up with. Drug testing after spring break and suspending any kids who return their first positive? Sounds like a good idea to Richt. Waiting until after Vanderbilt builds an IPF in order to finally get serious about maybe getting one in the next five years? Richt is patient. Meekly accepting an NCAA lynching any time a stupid rule MIGHT have been broken? Sure, why not?
Also, there is absolutely no chance of Richt embarrassing the program with Sarkesian, Petrino, or Hoke-style antics. From the B-M perspective, what’s not to like?
So, making a change? Why? Given that B-M is stingy with an established, Hall of Fame level coach, what kind of salary do you think they’ll offer to a coach without the level of success Richt already has? What’s the minimum wage these days?
Also, Carroll and Kelly committed major NCAA violations at their last college programs. Until the Georgia Way is nothing more than a distant memory, there’s no chance that the powers that be would want to sully UGA’s reputation for a chance at wins with a coach that has proven to be that morally “flexible.”
So, yes, the state of Georgia produces a bunch of recruits every year. But that doesn’t automatically overshadow the significant competitive disadvantages that UGA imposes on its program.
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One major issue that will surely come up if Richt were to be fired in the next year or two will be “why would I want to work with that administration?” If you’re a coach, you are going to want to know why it took six to seven seasons to give one of the best coaches in your school history the things that all the other top flight programs have. (Support staff, quality control coaches, off field coaches, & recruiting staff) and then the follow up would be why did you fire him after only having access to those things for 2 years?
The staff now is essentially 8 to 9 months in to having a support staff that resembles the rest of top flight CFB. If you go and look at the size of support staffs at FSU, Alabama, Ohio State, UGA is still behind.
Fertile recruiting grounds and a decent fan base is nice but head coaches that would potentially seek out this job will ask those questions and they’ll expect a good answer.
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That is an easy sell that the AD finally changed things. I do agree that drug policy and stance toward the NCAA (Gurley vs Johnny Football) are drawbacks. However, I do believe that UGA is a very good job just below some of the obvious top choices which are less strict on their players and more open with their check books. I have voiced my opinion on Gurley and the pot policy before. Athens is a great place to live but many college towns are, especially when you make millions and are no longer looking for the best parties.
The expanded support staff is great but I honestly question how much up side we will see under Richt. The missed blocks and missed kicks on special teams were not fixed by the support staff. It has to be fixed by giving the unit practice time. Yes it does need to be expanded but if it never gets to the player then it does not matter. If I understand correctly the support staff can not coach the players directly. Which means Richt has to budget the time of players and coaches.
I believe UGA is one of the Top 15 coaching jobs in CFB and soundly out ranks Arkansas. Even if tradition and funds are close, UGA has access to more talent in state, a strong pipeline to Florida, and is less likely to fire a staff on a knee jerk.
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To answer your question Senator, I don’t think B-M would move at warp speed.
But not all coaching searches go that fast. Some of the great coaches are in a situation they can wait a bit. If UGA and USCe were both open at the same time a great coach may wait for UGA to act. If that great coach was at that moment coaching an NFL franchise? Well then he’d most likely jump on the first job offered. before a leak or controversy broke.
Hiring a rock star coach is never a slam dunk by any means. USC hasn’t been consistent at it, ND hasn’t, Alabama hasn’t etc. But thinking that we would have to limit our search to an up and comer is setting our sights too low, IMO.
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Alabama didn’t hire a rock star coach in Saban? Really?
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I think A10’s point was on consistency. Alabama hit a home run with Saban. But they whiffed with Price, DuBose, and Shula.
And that’s one of my worries. If it took Alabama, where winning is the ONLY thing, four head coach hires and an embarrassing jilting from RichRod to get from Stallings to Saban, why does anybody think that UGA can do better?
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I’m not expecting better more like close to the same as Bama and UF. Bama you also have to consider the probation. Shula is no Saban but he did go 10-2 under sanctions and the 2 were at the end of the season when depth was running out against SEC title contenders. Price? Kind of reminds me of Damon Evans.
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I think you are expecting better than Bama. Not necessarily the Bama of today, but the post-Stallings, pre-Saban Bama. That Bama had the good fortune to go through four head coaching hires at a time when multi-year contracts for assistants and multi-million dollar salaries for everybody weren’t really a thing. UGA’s next hire, whenever that may happen, will require both. If we hire the next DuBose, fire him, hire the next Shula, fire him, and start looking again, we will be exactly where Tennessee was/is. Tapped out. That’s a big risk for B-M.
Or, they can just keep winning 9-10 games a year and watching the reserve fund swell.
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That is what I meant. Obviously, Saban was a home run hire.
We can do better because things have changed. Alabama is no longer the program is was in ’06. And we’re not the same program we were in ’01. IMO, both jobs are more attractive than they were the last time the jobs were vacant.
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I’m posing this question honestly:
To what extent would the UGA administration (all the way up to the Board of Regents, as illustrated in articles previously spotlighted here) and its reputation for the Georgia Way dissuade a prospective new coach from taking the job?
I mean, it’s pretty widely known that Georgia’s football program operates under different self-imposed constraints than most of its rivals: the “one strike and you’re out” drug policy, the athletic department’s historical habit of not spending money until absolutely necessary (generally at least a couple of years after public demand has reached a fever pitch), etc. The local police department’s enjoyment of athlete-related press releases, and the administration’s tacit endorsement of that policy, is only slightly less widely known.
Might this stuff (in addition to the factors listed in the post that started this thread) keep a prospective big-time coach from coming to Athens? Or do coaching prospects ignore (or not be aware of) things like this?
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Yikes, I wish I could edit that post. “Do coaching prospects ignore” (or not be aware of)…” That’s ugly.
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I share your concern. I’m sure that UGA could entice an FCS coach to come regardless of the restraints placed upon him. He would think he had the keys to the kingdom with the increased scholarships, recruiting budget, etc.
But how would we stack up against a program like USC or Texas? A prospective hire desired by multiple high-profile programs may well lean away from coaching The Georgia Way.
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You assume that the athletic administrations elsewhere aren’t populated by the exact same types of people we have at ours. I feel virtually certain there are plenty out there not only just as bad, but worse to work for.
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I’m sure there are jerks out there. Patterson and Hayden have proved that many times over. But what I’m talking about is the commitment to supporting the program in pursuit of wins. UGA is worse than average on that front.
For example, Vanderbilt (!) has an IPF. They’re not drawing one up. They’re not forming an exploratory committee to see how much private funding they can secure to maybe build one. They built it.
UGA’s latest move on that front is taking soil samples from the site where they decided, after countless meetings and discussions, to build the IPF. If everything goes perfectly, they might finish it in time for the 2017 season.
That doesn’t really send the message that the administration will go above and beyond to support the team. It sends the message that UGA must be dragged kicking and screaming into the era of spending big money to support the team because that’s what every other team in the SEC will do and, if UGA doesn’t, they risk falling behind Vanderbilt.
So, that’s the kind of competitive disadvantage that the next football coaching candidate will have to consider. There are several others.
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Didn’t the Texas AD just make a mountain out of the moliest of hills and get canned? And USC? McGarity may be a mediocre AD, but Haden seems like a terrible boss..
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Why do you say that about Haden? Because he fired Kiffin on the tarmac instead of in an office? Bad news like that needs to be delivered immediately, and in-person (before a leak occurs and Kiffin hears through the grapevine). Because he fired Sark via email? Haden was denied the opportunity to do it F2F by Sark. I haven’t bought into the Haden needs to go narrative; on the contrary he is doing things the right way.
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So he goes out of his way and publicly embarrassesed one guy to avoid exactly happened with the next guy?
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embarrassed*
Typing is hard.
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I think it is interesting to look at Florida in this context. They have all of the advantages we have, and two of their last three hires (excluding McElwain) have been disasters. You could even argue that Meyer was a disaster long-term. Does anyone have confidence that we will do a better job of hiring a coach than Florida has?
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The argument could also be made 2 of their last 4 were great hires (excluding McElwain), and McElwain is looking solid at the moment. I wouldn’t put Zook as a “disaster”, he still went to bowls, finished 2nd, tie for 1st and 3rd in the East, and 2-1 to UGA.
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Aren’t you in the camp of “a trained chimp could win 10 games at UGA?” If so, Zook’s 7 and 8 win seasons at Florida (with equal or better resources as UGA) seem to look disastrous by that standard.
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Didn’t he beat us? (Ducks, runs away.)
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He was a failure in W/L but he left UF with talent and the other points listed above. Disastrous is UT making a dumb hire in Kiffin (no D1 HC experience, the Al Davis thing, further questionable recruiting at USC, doubled down with hiring Coach O) and then taking that talent with you to USC. It blew my mind then as it does now that anyone thought this would end well. I was expecting a 10 win season or 2 with blowout losses to Bama, followed by probation but he exceeded my expectations.
I wouldn’t say a trained chimp but CMR is doing a very average job. CMR has benefited from the East largely being a dumpster fire, thanks to UT and UF which are showing signs of new life.
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UF was a dumpster fire after Urban left and they were still able to hire one of the top coordinator candidates in CFB at the time. Yes, it didn’t work out but at the time did you really think it was that bad of a hire?
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The only way you fire an 8-10 win Richt is if you have a chance to land a red hot coach. Anything else is just change for change’s sake.
I keep thinking about Tennessee as a cautionary tale, as the parallels there seem a lot more similar than Arkansas. If Richt is fired, I would expect nothing more from BM than to look at a Derek Dooley-type hire – cheap, under the radar, and untested against big time competition.
Look at any other program on Georgia’s level who has recently changed coaches, and look at the results. The only success story I can come up with is Florida State and maybe Florida and Michigan, which I hesitate to mention given that those coaches aren’t yet halfway through their first seasons.
Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas, USC, Nebraska, Agent Muschamp at Florida, Michigan pre Harbaugh, and the list goes on. All these programs struggled and underperformed after their 10 win coaches left. What makes anyone think Georgia will be any different without a rockstar coach hire?
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It should be noted that Tennessee originally had the rockstar head coach in Kiffin. I thought he had a great deal of momentum moving through year 1 and it looked like he was going to turn UT very quickly into a power. Instead, with no personal ties to the school or area, he took what he perceived as a better job and left UT without a coach right before signing day. I would also consider Sark a rockstar but maybe for different reasons.
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Kiffin came in with Al Davis making him out to be a fool. I would not classify him as a rockstar.
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He was the youngest head coach in NFL history and UT offered him more money than he made in Oakland. He brought Monte K and Orgeron with him. I consider it a “rockstar” hire.
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I would never consider a coach without head coach experience at the D1 level (even if he has NFL experience) a rockstar hire further there was plenty of shock and controversy when he was announced as the UT coach.
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The only school on your list that has had more talent than UGA is USC. TX and FL are close.
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I’ll add one last point.
Georgia’s history of hiring unproven “up-and-comers” rather than established head coaches goes way back, long before Goff and Donnan.
Georgia has NEVER hired a proven head coach. Ever. In the history of the football program. Dooley was an 32-year-old assistant at Auburn when Georgia hired him. Harry Mehre was 22 when Georgia hired him, with one failed season as an NFL head coach under his belt. Wally Butts was a 34-year-old assistant coach when Georgia promoted him. Goff was a coordinator with no head coaching experience. Richt was a coordinator with no head coaching experience.
Jim Donnan was the biggest “star” with prior head coaching experience Georgia has ever hired, but even he was another “up-and-comer” from a lower division, and we all know how that went.
In summary, there is NO precedent for Georgia hiring a new coach with significant head coaching experience. The notion that they would break with over 100 years of tradition (the roots of the Georgia Way) and successfully recruit (and pay for) Chip Kelly, Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, or any other big name is pure fantasy.
When Richt goes, Georgia’s going to hire either a then-current coordinator or Mike Bobo.
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The biggest attraction for hiring Dooley, in the mind of Joel Eaves, was that he was CHEEEEEEEEEP!!!!! They started him off at what? Four bucks an hour above minimum wage?
“Sometimes you are the windsheld, sometimes you are the bug.”
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I find this Chip Kelly talk interesting. He is the last person I see at UGA but he would be great at Auburn or Tx A&M. He has never had a defense, and I have received criticism for suggesting Mullen and his offense.
UF’s McElwain hire was not a rock star nor was Urban both were very good guesses which makes the Muschamp hire all the more interesting. It didn’t take an expert publicist to see that Muschamp did not have the social skills to run a big program.
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I think Muschamp’s offenses were a bigger problem than his PR.
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He couldn’t hire a decent OC to save his life because of his personality
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Urban was as close to a no brainer at UF as it gets. Bernie Machen came to UF from Utah before the Corch.
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