The big picture reason offered for dismissing Mark Richt after the end of the 2015 season was that the program had plateaued. Sure, it was good for 9-10 wins on a steady basis, along with the occasional divisional title, but that wasn’t the place Georgia should be.
Enter Kirby Smart, who’s had a helluva run in three short seasons. More wins, a conference title, a spot in a national title game, heightened fund raising (hey, this is Butts-Mehre we’re talking about, so don’t pretend that doesn’t count), all would seem to point onward and upward.
All that is presented as background for what popped up at The Athletic yesterday, from Stewart Mandel and Bruce Feldman. Both of them posted their lists of the 25 best college head coaches. Mandel’s ($$) had Smart 6th; Feldman ($$) ranked Smart 12th. I’m not here to rail about the overall positioning, as both were complimentary, but to point out one curious thing — they both ranked Lincoln Riley fourth.
I found that… well, curious, considering that Riley, unlike Smart, hasn’t coached in a national title game, mainly because Smart beat Riley in the most memorable Rose Bowl game of my life. Feldman dinged Smart for losing by large margins to Auburn and LSU, but had nary a word to say about Oklahoma getting smoked by Alabama in last season’s CFP semi-final game.
Both seem to put weight on Riley’s “innovative offensive mind”, as Feldman referred to it. Smart, in turn, is given the greatest credit for his recruiting prowess. There seems to be an implicit assumption in their rankings that the Jimmies and Joes can only take you so far as a head coach.
All of which leads me to yesterday’s Mandel Mailbag ($$), where he was asked the following question:
Not to say Georgia will fire Kirby by any means, but if he doesn’t win it all in the next two years, there’s a problem, right? He has arguably the most talented roster in the country top-to-bottom along with ’Bama and Clemson. Am I crazy to believe the Dawgs should win one of the next two?
Mandel’s response? Winning a national title is hard, but, yeah, if Smart doesn’t come through in the next two years, he’ll be a disappointment. Like it or not, if that’s what comes to be, Mandel will be far from alone in his assessment. The irony here is that Smart is being dinged for the sin of being an elite recruiter over schemer, while also being held to the expectations of what elite recruiting should bring a program.
Of course, Smart’s real sin is that he’s coaching against his mentor, arguably the best coach in college football history, in order to elevate his status to truly elite in that two-year time frame.
Anyway, my question for you is this: if Georgia continues to come up just short of the ultimate goal, when does Mandel’s take begin to trickle down Athens way? Richt got fifteen years, but nobody expects the school to be that generous with Smart, even if he’s consistently hitting greater heights than Richt did. When would you expect to start hearing whispers about plateaus again?
Get The Picture 
Soon. If in 2 years he doesn’t get there, we have accomplished nothing more than the last administration. The first 3 years comparisons considering there was not a 4 team playoff are very similar with Richt’s record being slightly better, I think. Richt beat Saban; twice I think. Saban’s not going anywhere so you have to beat the best IMO.
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The first 3 years comparisons considering there was not a 4 team playoff are very similar with Richt’s record being slightly better, I think.
LOL.
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8-4, 13-1, 11-3 vs 8-5, 13-2, 11-3
but yeah, LOL
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zactly…
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That’s the bottom line, for sure. To Kirby’s credit, our recruiting is better now than then.
And Kirby seems to be turning the Florida series back around, but that’s the only one he’ll get because Richt got us back on the right side of Tech (13-2 after “losing” 3 in a row), Auburn (10-5) and Tennessee (10-5). I mean, he ruined Tennessee.
I love Richt for what he accomplished here and sad for what he didn’t (2012, especially). As his tenure recedes, he’ll be remembered as one of the better coaches UGA ever had.
I hope Kirby eclipses them all, learns to motivate the team better, and gets the best of Saban.
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Richt won the SEC with one loss in 2002, and was number 3 after the SEC CG win. Smart won the SEC with one loss in 2017, and was number 3 after the SEC CG.
Looks similar to me.
Richt won TV he SEC CG gv
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This will always lead to the question we despise; if not Smart, then whom will it be to lead us to the NC?
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Lincoln Riley, obviously. 🙂
Maybe McGarity would finally get the chance to hire Dan Mullen.
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The PROBLEM is we were screwed out of the victory by officiating in January 2018. Yeah, I’m a bitter old man and I’m still pissed!
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there are a hundred things that are markedly improved. And Rick would have gone off the rails with the offensive line recruiting and the absolute dilapidated strength and conditioning program.
We completely handled a top-10 Florida team as if it was nothing. That alone is an improvement.
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The records and the hardware are the same. The results that count are Wins and losses and championships. It’s not how pretty we are. You can have your participation trophies. Do I believe it will happen. I have high hopes that it will. That’s why, with the talent present and the East down if we aren’t carrying the Crystal Trophy, I’m ready to re-assess.
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Riley doesn’t have serious brain farts on his resume that contributed to losses in big game. Kirby does.
For me, if Kirby continues to call bone-headed plays that lead to embarrassing losses, he’ll lose me, too. Otherwise, I’m good with him at the helm.
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I thought Riley’s playcalling in the second half of the Rose Bowl partly was responsible for Georgia’s monster comeback. And the squib kick call was arguably the key to the turnaround.
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Agreed. Feldman constantly kisses Riley’s ass on their podcast, and rightly so as a QB coach and offensive play designer. But he does it for the same reason he’s always longing for the Pac-12 to return to form and touting Ohio State’s amazing culture. He works the sidelines for those conferences’ games and thus needs to promote the standard bearers as much as possible. He and Mandel openly discuss the SEC taking the oxygen out of the room and their role discussing other conferences.
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concur
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Riley has brain farts. But brain farting against Kansas State or Texas Tech is much less dangerous than brain farting against teams loaded with 4 and 5 star players.
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Are you being serious? I remember the Dawgs playing their asses off and whipping OU in the second half. YMMV, but I don’t remember Riley blowing it. Maybe my recollection is wrong. I remember distinctly R taking the game over, regardless of what Riley was calling.
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Boneheaded playcalling that changes a likely win to a loss is really got CMR fires IMHO. CKS has shown a propensity for doing the same thing.”We’re with you win or tie.” Wait….there aren’t any ties in college football any more? Hmmmmm.
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Ask an Oklahoma fan if Lincoln Riley has brain farts.
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Does having Mike Stoops as your DC count as a brain fart?
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LOL!
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Ain’t that the truth! That’s a season long brain fart.
Riley also had the advantage of moving up in an organization he knew. Kirby had to come in from the outside and remake the program in his image.
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Yes.
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UGA will always come up short and if you don’t believe that I have history on my side. That is the plight of the UGA fan.
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At last, you finally got your handle right.
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Honestly think we have already won 1 with some different play calling …..kinda like sticking with what was working. Not blaming Chaney by any means, it all goes thru Smart. He is still learning IMO, I hope that one sunk in.
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Kirby has infinitely more admin support & financial resources to work w/ compared to Richt. So, he better achieve greater success or be prepared to handle the fan’s frustration.
I’m amazed at the pettiness of ADGM & the liquor barons towards Richt. Clearly there were serious personal issues between them for the lack of support & financial commitment.
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good points….never forget the time he gave some of his coaches an increase out of his own pockets.
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The idea that lobbying for more support wasn’t part of Richt’s job is ridiculous. The most effective coaches secure the support their program needs to succeed. Richt didn’t.
Among the primary responsibilities of major football coaches: (1) recruiting, coaching, and winning; (2) promoting the well-being of their student-athletes; (3) public relations and assisting with fundraising to support responsibilities 1-2; (4) lobbying administration to support responsibilities 1-2.
Richt did well at times but failed at a majority of these tasks over the course of his career. Sorry for the bad news.
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I always understood that Red Panties told Richt to stop lobbying for the IPF because Il Duce wasn’t going to approve it.
The biggest flaw of Richt by a long shot was his failure to manage the roster and to recruit quality depth in the line of scrimmage. It bit us in the @$$ in 2008 when Sturdivant went down in practically the first practice of preseason camp and in 2012 when our defensive line was dead in the SECCG.
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Exactly. Under CMR we had loads of skill talent and typically one all star lineman on either side of the ball. He never recruited depth there and that was a big part of his downfall. Why that was I couldn’t say but I don’t think it was lack of effort.
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I can think of Ole Mi$$’s bagman as the reason for Laremy Tunsil as an example.
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Richt is also a victim of the timeline.
If the CFP exists during CMRs tenure, UGA goes to two playoffs and IMO wins one NC.
If the CFP never gets invented, Saban has two fewer titles.
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+1 nice post
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This is a valid point I had not thought of. Thanks!
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2007
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Richt never delivered in the way Smart has and Smart comes off as more driven. Yes we had all the optimism in the world up until some point after 2007.
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Otto, Richt delivered from 2001-2007. He had us on the doorstep in 2012. He would have had at least one CFP appearance during those years.
2002/2017 and 2003/2018 have been almost exact parallels of their career trajectories. 2004 and 2019 have a lot of similarities … many thought the 2004 team would be the team that would be the one to break the ceiling just as many believe the team in 2019 is a national title contender.
Smart comes off right now more driven due to their sideline demeanor (I don’t mean that in a bad way) and the recruiting rankings (not that Richt was a slacker in that area himself early on).
Just my $.02.
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I don’t mean this to belittle Richt’s performance in the early part of his career, because he did some very good things. However, there were more hiccups in his 2002 and 2003 seasons than Smart’s had in 2017 and 2018. Aside from the Sugar Bowl (which I don’t take seriously as a marker), Smart hasn’t lost to a significantly worse team. Richt did it twice against Florida those two years and struggled more with inferior opponents. The Tennessee loss that ultimately cost them the East in 2004 was of a kind with those two Florida games. I’m less concerned about Smart laying an egg in a game where Georgia is decidedly the better team, and he’s put together a more complete roster than Richt did. I would call what he’s done thus far a very slight upgrade over Richt’s first three years. 2019 and 2020 are going to be big years for him in these comparisons…obviously.
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I think you are mistaken. The 2002 team beat every team on the schedule with lesser talent soundly with possibly the exception of UF. Tennessee was still a factor in the national picture and we beat them in a great game in Athens. The game vs Auburn to win the SECE was one for the ages. Many of you forget that the SECE was a much more difficult neighborhood in 2000-2007.
Many of you also forget that CMR had some ridiculous winning percentage on the road his first 5 years as well (if memory serves we didn’t lose on the road until Auburn 2004)
As far as Lincoln Riley is concerned, he is a good coach but has no business in the Top 5 yet. If you want examples of playing down to your competition look no further than Army (OT win) and Iowa St.
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South Carolina was 13-7. Tennessee was 18-13. Auburn required an improbably completion on fourth down to win 24-21. I don’t consider any of those teams that year to be comparable in terms of talent. The East was not especially strong from 2002 to 2005, though I’ll grant you it was better than the 2017 version.
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And by no coincidence, it was the 2007 season where I read an article quoting CMR as saying “I’m more of a CEO than coach now.” At the time I thought it was a change in coaching philosophy. Didn’t know until much later than Butts-Mehre had forced him to go fund raise for the university.
I think CKS goes to the NFL before letting that happen to him.
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Butts-Mehre didn’t force him … Il Duce did.
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You misspelled “Il Douche”.
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If we can’t beat Tua and those receivers this year, and Bama dominates and wins the championship again, I believe the whispers wouldn’t start yet. If Bama beats us but gets beat by someone else again in the playoff, they will start. If Jake Fromm stays in 2020 and Tua and some of Bama’s receivers leave and we still can’t win it all, the whispers will definitely start. Good poll question topic, actually.
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Yeah for all the glee people have had over firing CMR, the truth is we haven’t accomplished much differently (yet). As you mention, CKS was brought in to make a good program elite, not just continuity .
It see,s after three years now that CKS is an elite recruiter, a great director of a program and an average gameday coach. And there’s nothing wrong with that; it actually may be the “correct” hierarchy
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At the same time, Feldman has Chip Kelly, Brian Kelly and Jim Harbaugh over CKS lolz
Wouldn’t trade Smart for ANY of those; not even close
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Feldman is all over the place, and his explanations in the replies show just how inconsistent his reasoning is. He give Harbaugh credit for his NFL works, but completely ignores how Kelly bombed fantastically there. As the senator noted, he give L.Riley benefit of the doubt, despite losing to Smart and getting outcoached by Herman this season. He also seems to knock Smart’s success because he “took over a good program” but doesn’t mention that the transition for Riley was about as smooth as possibly from his previous coach (He worked for him) and thus much easier than changing everything from culture to attitude to coaching staff.
Outside of the top 4 (and maybe Leach because he’s just a treasure) I’d be surprised if any of the fan bases wouldn’t jump wish fistfuls of cash to get Smart to be their coach.
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I’m sure we’ll hear grumbling around half-time of this year’s G-Day game but if continue to do as you suggest (fall just short of nat’l title) I could see Kirby given just as much time as CMR was.
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I’d say if Fromm doesn’t graduate with a NC, it’s time to start looking at who else is out there.
Urban Meyer might be ready to get back into coaching by then.
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The day Georgia hires Urban Meyer will be the day I shut down the blog.
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Meyer is a proven winner that has shown the ability to take the last step at numerous schools.
He’s also shown the ability to beat Nick Saban.
If CKS can’t get it done, I’d be excited to see Meyer replace him if it means getting that Natty.
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He’s also a sociopath. You’re more than welcome to him.
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He is a nutbag for sure. I’d almost rather see SOS than urban.
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Man, this thread has taken a dark, dark turn. 😉
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No doubt I’d rather have SOS than Urban.
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I think my favorite sport would likely become underwater basketweaving if either of those came to coach at UGA.
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Sociopaths are in vogue now. You see them at the highest levels…
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He’s a proven fraud of a human being whose last 3 years were defined by head scratching losses and big stage flops.
Urban’s last his expiration date, in case you missed it.
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I not really concerned about character.
It took us 15 years of suffering with the choir boy to finally wake up and try to win some games. If CKS continues to panic in high pressure situations and shit the bed annually against SECW opponents, then we need to can his ass and find a proven winner.
Like it or not Meyer has NC rings at multiple schools, we’ve got what? Complaints about officiating? We ain’t playing paddy-cake at the First Baptist Church of Athens preschool here, we are trying to win titles.
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You’ve just expressed everything wrong with how a lot of college football fans think. Yours is the attitude that leads to Penn State and Baylor. Congrats.
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Yep, 100% BR. I’ll quit watching when we hire a proven fraud like Urban Liar or Art Briles.
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I can’t tell if he’s trolling or just truly that delusional. People seem to think that being Alabama or Saban-like is expected or UGA’s god given right. Wake up man. We will never have a run of success like Saban has for the last decade. It’s just not feasible. To want that isn’t a bad thing – but to throw away a coach that just isnt quite what Saban is… thats mental man.
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I wouldn’t say “never”, but to expect it is certainly unreasonable.
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Yeahhhh, let’s “can” a coach who is 22-2 the last two regular seasons and hasn’t lost a division game in nearly 3 calendar years. Brilliant effing idea. I guess SEC West opponents are the only “big” games. It’s funny how the only games we lose are “big” games. I believe that’s called Dawggrading.
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I keep asking for a lexicon entry for “big game” … one in which Georgia loses.
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I agree. I don’t care for Urban but he obviously can flat out coach.. Probably 90% of the teams would love to have him as their coach.
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Is this a troll? Because just damn.
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Not to go all “Georgia Way” on you here but there’s got to be a line drawn somewhere. It’s definitely somewhere short of Urban Meyer, for so many reasons.
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Winning a national championship is not THAT important to me. I would rather stay at our 2001-2018 level than sell our souls for a national championship.
The NFL is the “win at all costs” league. UGA plays college football, which means that we should be molding good citizens, husbands and fathers while we win.
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In other words, Champions of Life.
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Go fuck yourself TN Dawg.
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I wouldn’t blame you one bit.
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The whiners for the win!!!!
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1) if it wasn’t for the refs (in both Bama match ups) we wouldn’t be having this discussion
2) if it wasn’t for the dumbass special teams calls, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
If you keep recruiting top 3 classes you ride that horse for as long as it takes.
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I guess the burr under my saddle as it regards recruiting rankings is that Dabo seems to be getting it done with classes in the 8-12 range.
Then again, Clemson gave Dabo time to put it all together.
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And he plays in the ACC
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This is huge. Clemson basically gets all season to practice for the post season, and even then, they stumble or nearly so to teams like NC State, Pittsburgh and Syracuse.
If we win the NC, we will have gone through Auburn, A&M, SEC Championship game and two playoff games. There’s only one bye in that entire streak (Tech). We will have earned it for sure. Clemson has to win two games, period.
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The IPTAY crowd was ready to run Dabo’s @$$ off after WVU dropped 70 on them. As a result, he hired Brent Venables and everything changed.
Dabo was widely recognized as an example of the Peter Principle until Venables showed up in the Upstate.
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Didn’t Clemson earn the moniker “clemsoned” while Dabo was the HC?
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No, that was earned under Tommy Bowden.
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Are you sure?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clemsoning
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Maybe?
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I honestly think the key for Clemmy is he’s been able to convince key seniors to stick around (For both his championship teams). We saw the boost that gives with the 2017 team. Makes me wonder if next year we wont be disappointed.
Of course our program is closer to built like Saban’s team than Dabo and he’s used to high volumes of turnover. I guess we will see.
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Smart went with the “Saban 2.0 with a soul” brand out of the gate. First rule of sales is under promise and over deliver. Kirby was on the right side of that idea at the end of the 2017 season, but now things have turned somewhat.
If Fields blows up at tOSU and Georgia ends up with 2 or more Ls (odds of both: low), then Kirby has a problem. But this looks like Georgia’s year. So no problem.
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How is this “Georgia’s year” when Clemson and Bama still exist and we are replacing seasoned draft talent with unproven talent
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How ? (1) Beat Bama’s ass in Atlanta, hoist SEC trophy, (2) Kick Clemson’s ass in Natty, hoist shinier trophy, (3) drop pants to ankles and swing dick like a hula hoop.
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Last time I checked, Alabama and Clemson are replacing a lot of talent headed to the NFL – Clemson their entire DL – and Alabama has practically a new coaching staff.
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Stop the madness… At the level he is recruiting, they’ll knock down that door, if not sooner, then later.
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^ This is correct.
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2 more years for Kirby to win a NC or he’s gone? That’s crazy talk. Tom Osborne was a pretty good coach and took 21 years to win a NC. That’s an extreme example but come on. If Kirby died of a heart attack today, I can’t think of a single coach outside of Tuscaloosa or maybe Clemson who would be an improvement.
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Urban Meyer.
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What good does it do to gain the whole world if you forfeit your soul?
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Aaken to Gurkha no thank you to Urban Meyer. If we hired him I would stop supporting GA football.
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*Amen
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If we ever hire Urban Meyer that will be the day I quit supporting GA football.
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Let’s say Smart does exactly the same thing the next two years he did the last two (wins the SEC and loses a close national title game, followed by losing a close SEC title game, while compiling a 22-2 regular season record). If anyone at Georgia is truly disappointed by that outcome, then they have gone insane. Personally, I didn’t want Richt gone because he couldn’t win a national title. I wanted him gone because he couldn’t keep the program consistently where it could be. National titles are nice, and I imagine Smart will win one sometime soon, but more importantly, I just want Georgia to win the East when it’s there for the taking and win the SEC title game sometimes.
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Well said, and my sentiments exactly.
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IF UGA keeps playing for SEC Titles, we will get it done.
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I read that yesterday and couldn’t believe where they ranked Kirby. Feldman had Riley, Patterson and Kelly ranked ahead of Kirby. All coaches that Kirby beat either on a neutral field or at their house. So the rankings (especially Feldman’s click-bait list) were out of whack.
If Kirby doesn’t win a NC in the next few (3-4?) years, then the rumblings will start but I guess it depends on why he hasn’t won one. At the level he’s recruiting, at some point that has to pay off. And about the only way it doesn’t is some fault with coaching.
Finally, I hate this “NC or bust” mentality. Sure, I want to win one, but I thought the Ricky Bobby “If you ain’t first, you’re last!” thing was supposed to be satire.
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New era of playoffs I guess. I am in the ‘beat the crap out of your rivals and I’ll be happy’ mindset. Call me a regional old timer I guess.
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I have a problem with using a national championship victory as the benchmark. I think Kirby is doing a fine job and that BM should be satisfied with the program being in its current state for as long as they can maintain it. It foolish to criticize Kirby and to consider firing him if he doesn’t claim a national title in the next two years.
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Additionally.. what do any of us gain from a national championship? More respect at work? Wife gets hotter? Free money?
No.. you get a few memories and a t-shirt.
most overrated fan desire on earth
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*demand.. not desire
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How many years did it take Saban and Dabo as HCs too win it all?
9 for NS and 8 1/2 for Dabo.
GEEZ!
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I know. The sky is falling though.
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This is a great point, and I’ll caveat – It seemed to take a generational talent (Watson) to put Clemson over that hump. Saban was honing his “process”. Kirby spent much more time as a coordinator and appears ahead of where both were in year 4 as a HC. Everyone needs to pump the breaks.
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The Georgia Way in full display.
“I don’t care if we win a National Championship, just as long as we do our best”.
Probably don’t care if your wives bang their boyfriends as long as they kiss you on the cheek when they get home.
They aren’t celebrating their participation trophies is Tuscaloosa.
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So that’s our binary choice — hire a head coach who tolerates players like Hernandez and coaches like Smith (and publicly lies about that), as long as he wins a national title along the way, or suffer the consequences?
Even I don’t think that’s an example of the Georgia Way. Your mileage obviously varies.
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I proposed no such binary option, merely that I was open to a proven winner should our Saban Light not pan out, but not that it must be him.
Read through the comments above, it’s exactly what I’m talking about, a commitment to 5th place as long as it’s consistent.
“I’m happy if we win the East”, “It might take 8.5/9 years, who knows”, “the NC isn’t the benchmark”, “#buttherefs”….etc, etc, etc.
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I want the world
I want the whole world
I want to lock it
All up in my pocket
It’s my bar of chocolate
Give it to me now
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That’s from “Charlie And The Chocolate Factory”, isn’t it?
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I think the ’70s version called it Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (maybe Gene Wilder was considered the draw?), but yes.
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Seems pretty binary to me. Win natty and be satisfied with nothing else.
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Well that is a binary choice I’m happy with and believe in.
But the Senator supposed I said the choices were hire Urban Meyer or lose.
I made no such assertion. All I said was that I was willing to entertain a proven winner if our current coach proved himself incapable of winning the big game.
If that makes me a radical, then so be it. I just don’t have the stomach for another 4 years of Richt/Murray failure theatre when a real winner sits on a shelf ready and available.
I hope Kirby/Fromm get it done. I really do. But if Kirby proves incapable of reaching the final prize, he needs to be scrapped and we need to move on.
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I think what he’s implying and you’re too thick to get is that your mindset makes everyone feel sorry for you. I’m sure you feel like a badass calling everyone else a cuck for not feeling like you do, but you just sound like a whiny brat.
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And what happens if you swing and miss while trying to get better and continue to get worse ? Should Tennessee be commended for “not settling for 5th place” based on their revolving door of the last decade ?
No, you play the percentages. When recruiting is Top 2 or 3 and you’ve been a few plays away on the field, you ride that horse till it’s clear the ride is over. Call us when we start to get light on the Jimmies and Joes, then you won’t sound insane.
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Classy.
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You are so full of crap.
I am not going to measure the success of Kirby Smart on whether he wins a national championship. If you do, you’re going to be sorely disappointed a hell of a lot. As PTC said above, you win SEC championships and the national championship will come.
Natty or bust!
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I take it you’re the kind of guy who’s been big into the whole calling people “cuck beta’s” thing for the last few years?
Tell us more, wise sage
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The problem with your way of thinking is that you think it’s a destination not a process. You can’t fire your way to a championship. If you could the browns would be the patriots.
There is no such thing as “incapable.” You’re either in the discussion or you’re not. You’re either on the way there or your not.
If you can get the players and you can win in the double digits every year, how do you decide: incapable?
Should Bowden have been fired in 1992? Should Spurrier have been fired after Nebraska ran them in Tempe? What if Spur dog doesn’t luck up into a meaningful rematch for his only natty the next year? Would he be “incapable?”
There are two guys in this country who will no doubt win you a natty.
1 is retired and 1 is close to it. There is literally no one else on the planet that you can just say: Fire this guy and hire that guy…natty!
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I see your point, to some extent.
For Tampa Bay, it was a matter of removing Dungy and getting Gruden in order to get them over the top. For the Lakers, it was Phil Jackson.
But you are right that college doesn’t have many “sure things”. I’d throw $10-$15 million at Urban Meyer and get him out of retirement if Kirby keeps failing to deliver a NC.
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1) I agree it would probably work.
2) It’ll never happen.
Its time for something new. I tend to think the world is Herman, Smart and Jimbo’s and in the very near future.
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Kirbys coaching skills have got to improve in the fourth quarter or you can forget beating Alabama and I personally think Tom Herman is the best young coach in college. The closet was bare when he took over and you saw what happened at Ohio State when he left. I hate to say it but I think he is a better candidate for a national than Kirby. When McGarity fired Richt Hermans agent called him for an interview and was not granted one. This is straight out of his agents mouth. He wouldn’t have gotten hired anyway because McGaritys shorts were in a wad because S C was talking to Kirby. Kirby may be a better recruiter (maybe) but I think Herman is a better game time coach.
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Herman is overrated. Would Kirby Smart ever lose twice to Maryland? Lose to SMU, or back to back losses to Oklahoma State and WVU with shot at the conference championship at stake?
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Strong left him no players when he left. Plus even at lowly Houston he beat five top ten teams and never lost to a top ten team. Herman is always in control on the sideline while Kirby is running around like a madman man trying to coach the offense, defense, special teams etc. I have never seen a defensive huddle that he wasn’t doing all the talking while Tucker just stood there wondering when is he going to get to say something.
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He lost to Vandy and Tech so you don’t have a valid point.
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It was a miracle that he even played as well as he did considering the talent level that Strong left him. I’m telling you watch them because he is doing a really good job of recruiting.
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What? Texas’ composite rankings while Strong was coach were 17,10, and 7.
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Are you trying to say that’s good…for The University of Texas?
You’re not, right?
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Saying the recruiting was at the top echelon of the Big 12 and not light years behind what Herman is doing now. Herman has done marginally better than Charlie Strong and late-period Mack Brown with about the same level of recruiting.
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Agreed.
He is much better sideline coach. Kirby comes in with a game plan. If it doesn’t work, we go home with our tail between our legs. I can only think of one game that we ever came out in the second half and reversed the trends with adjustments and that is the Rose Bowl.
But I’ve seen Saban come out and eat our lunch after halftime adjustments multiple times as well as watching Kirby panic on some late game calls (iMac vs Vandy, fake punt in SECCG come to mind).
Herman seems like much more of a chess player compared to Kirby’s checkers. It showed big time when Texas humiliated us in the Sugar Bowl.
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Herman is a good motivator when his team is an underdog. I wouldn’t say he is great at in game adjustments, as his teams have tended to jump out to a lead and sit on it, to the point of nearly losing after a large lead to OU, KSU, and KU in the middle of the season, and not being able to seal the deal on WVU, or OU in their second meeting. He lost to SMU and Navy while at Houston and he is 0-2 against Maryland (Maryland!) as head coach at Texas.
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The Sugar Bowl was an abomination, but gameday chess vs. checkers was absolutely NOT the reason why. That game was lost before it even kicked off.
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It is still the head coaches job to get them ready. So that is really no excuse. Herman had his underdog team ready and everything Georgia did he had them ready for it.
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Of course it’s not an excuse, but the discussion was about the gameday chess match. It’s hard for me to gauge the coaches IN-GAME chops when the players don’t get off the bus. Which, again, is Kirby’s fault–but all that says is that he ironically failed at what most pundits actually give him credit for when criticizing his in-game chops (rah rah fire em up impose your will)
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How many times can a team run a 5 yard hitch before you adjust?
It was as bad as the Florida goal line.
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This is such bullshit. For all the things Saban is, he isn’t a great game day coach. Saban has a plan much like Bellichik does that will attack any perceived weakness and force you to make adjustments. Oh yeah he has much better players as well.
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Well, except for changing out his quarterbacks and going to an entirely different game plan in the middle of Championship games.
Other than that he doesn’t really make adjustments.
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If we’re being honest, I would be able to live with it if Georgia “plateaued” as one of the nation’s three best teams each year.
I think that a lot of this is going to be moot anyway, because I do believe that Georgia will get it done under Kirby Smart. I think that he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for being a good coach on game day and I think that’s because we’re obsessed with offense in American sports and nobody gives a damn about defense. Well, Kirby’s fingerprints are primarily on the defense. If you look at what Georgia has done defensively in the “big” games during his tenure as compared to the previous ten years there is simply no denying that he has put Georgia’s defense on a different planet. Yes, there have been some games where Georgia’s doors were blown off. Interestingly, the offense’s ineptitude in those games led to some of those failures.
In any event, I believe in Kirby Smart. I am looking forward to him raising the big trophy. I believe that he can get it done.
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Folks we will win it all in the next two years – if not both (exclusive of carastrophic injuries).
It has all been building to ‘19 & ‘20. Top5 OL, worlds most underated QB, solid D, and the cherry on top – outside negativity(no one is talking about us, articles leaving us out of all SEC schools breakdown,etc).
I am almost feel sorry for our opponents with the hell that is about to be unleashed on them.
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“Folks we will win it all in the next two years. . . ” That is what Jeff Dantzler has told us since 12/3/2015.
Dantzler has us all pumped to enjoy that sweet, sweet 2018 National Championship.
What I hope for is that we play at our best every year. Whatever happens then, happens.
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Not to mention OK plays in a conference comparable to the ACC. Talk to me about Riley when his regular season games include playing 5 to 6 teams in the Top 15. Kirby Smart is ALL UGA. I’m with him for as long as he wants to stay here. He’s shown me in 3 years all I need to see. He will break through eventually.
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🙄
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To flesh this eye-roll out, one of those ACC-comparable teams clubbed Georgia in a bowl game. Said ACC-comparable team lost 2 games in conference to teams not named OU.
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Their podcast is pretty good. I definitely listen every week. I wasnt surprised they didnt rank him higher. They dont seem that impressed with his coaching ability and they seem to discount the recruiting success. Even outside of this ranking discussion they never speak highly Smart’s coaching.
These lists always seemed to be offense heavy as well.
As for Riley, he did just turn out back to back Heisman winners.
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As for Riley, he just had back to back Heisman winners and couldn’t win a playoff game.
FIFY
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All it took was for Kirby to make a dumb decision in December to bring out the “Has Georgia plateaued?” questions from the lunatic fringe or the “I want my picture with the natty trophy at WalMart” crowd. Throw in the miserable performance in New Orleans, and they have officially crawled out from under their rocks.
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In fairness, it was the worst call in the history of modern college football, on top of a second straight come-from-ahead loss to Bama.
So, there’s that
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I understand that, but, Jeff, did you really think on November 26, 2016 that within a period of 24 months we would be playing for a national title one year and be an eyelash from playing for another 12 months after that?
Regarding the call, it was awful whether it worked or not. I’ve been consistent in my opinion of that.
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I’d call that hyperbole, but that would be an understatement.
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Name a worse one.
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Off the top of my head: The fake field goal at LSU was worse. Johnson’s decision to go on 4th down from his own 40 was worse. Running a toss sweep with Isaiah McKenzie on 4th and 1 against Vandy was worse. The entire overtime series against Michigan State was worse. Saban attempting a 60-yard field goal with a spotty kicker against Auburn was worse.
I could also look up calls by and against teams I don’t care much about for more.
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Are you serious? We were tied in the SEC Championship with the winner going to the playoff. They were already in fg range with a stop. We counted on a true freshman (who had never been on ST) to make the call in the most critical situation of the year.
Nothing comes close
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They were at midfield with a stop, and I explained why I understood Smart’s call below even while I disagree with it.
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It is hard to top. I have to admit.
If you’re going to do that I think you have to commit to allowing a td to save clock should the other team reach reasonable FG range. Just letting them just bleed all the clock off after they got to that point was fatal.
Also, Fields has to know that the worst outcome is a sack on the fake. Throw it literally anywhere and you’re better off. The only worse result would have been a safety. Which would have been quite a challenge from there.
The only plausible justification is that the refereeing was so bad that winning in any traditional way wasn’t possible. As bad as it was, I can’t quite even get there.
Hurts in the shadow of his gl in a tie game with about 5 to play seems like a place you’d really want to be.
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I agree with you on the preferred option, but I don’t think it’s as indefensible as you make it out to be. Alabama had just gone on a ridiculously long drive. So you have a tired defense with no Walker trying to hold on. I’d have taken my chances on that, but with all of the momentum being on Alabama’s side, I understand why Smart risked it.
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It’s pretty indefensible.
Taking the sack is also pretty indefensible.
But as I said, even if you go for it you have to know that you’re risking losing the clock and any chance to match the score. That’s why I say from just a strategy perspective your back up has to be, I’m going to allow them to score with sufficient time to tie and get into OT. To just allow them to bleed all that out means it wasn’t well thought through because you’re putting your season on that play.
Very hard to rationalize it. Believe me. I’ve tried. I defended Seattle when they threw at the gl. I defended not spiking it in 2012. I know some things are more complicated than they appear on the surface.
That fake was the worst thing I’ve seen since the Falcons didn’t run it 3 times and kick it vs. the pats after Julio made that incredible 4th q catch. That actually may be worse, but the fake punt is in the same class. As was the fake FG in BR.
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I disagree, but I guess that goes without saying since I just defended the reasoning above.
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Shanahan’s brain fart was the worst. How Quinn didn’t step in and say, “We don’t need a TD or yards. We need the clock to run and for Belichick to use his timeouts” was coaching malpractice. At a point when any point was a premium and the clock was on the Falcons’ side, you run the ball and kick the field goal with your guy who is money.
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Sorta like Auburn-Paul Oliver in 2005. Obviously, a touchback would have been ideal for us—but Auburn probably benefited from not scoring, bleeding clock and kicking that field goal.
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That was the ultimate in Georgia’s dealings with Ole Lady Luck … No one realizes Tra Battle is hurt. He gets beaten on 4th and long. Oliver chases the guy down and knocks the ball out. Instead of the ball squirting out of the end zone, the ball stays in bounds. Big Ears is able to run out the clock and kick the field goal to end the game. That was probably the time to pull a Paul Johnson and allow the TD in exchange for a last chance to score.
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Tra was unconscious and blitzed the QB. He didn’t get beat. He did something random because he was on auto pilot.
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Worst thing I’ve ever seen in football was throwing on 3 downs and getting knocked out of FG range in that spot.
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Yes, let those unwashed Walmart rubes drink their Natural Light in their gauche hooded sweatshirts and dream of implausible titles.
A cultured gentlemen enjoys a nice single-malt scotch at Bern’s in Tampa while regaling his fellow Outback Bowl travelers with delightful anecdotes from Lewis Grizzard.
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My first thought when reading that yesterday was “tough ****” – Georgia people created the bar for Kirby to reach when they fired Richt, so its Kirby’s (and the people who wanted Richt gone) “problem” if he can’t reach it, regardless of how (unrealistically) high it might be…
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As someone who wanted Richt gone, my bar was never natty or bust. The bitter Richtophiles made that the standard. Well, you guys and assholes like TN Dawg, assuming he’s not a troll.
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That’s one BIG assumption.
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What didn’t Richt do other than win a Natty??? I’ll hang up and listen….
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From 2006 to 2015 he didn’t win an SEC title and made the title game all of twice. He also went 8-5 twice and 6-7 another year. His second five years would have gotten him fired if not for his first five, and the final five didn’t do enough to recommend he keep the job.
If Smart’s tenure takes the same trajectory, I’ll be happy to see him go as well.
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Bobby Bowden contended for national titles in 1979, ’80, ’87, ’88, ’89, ’90, ’91, ’92 before finally winning one in 1993. He contended several more years before winning another in 1999. The key is to keep recruiting great players and developing them. Be in contention every year and the odds are that eventually the breaks will go your way.
In this era of multiple postseason games, having lots of depth of blue-chip talent is even more important. Smart needs to keep doing what he’s doing — if it doesn’t happen in 2019 or 2020, make sure you are contending in 2021, 2022, 2023, ….
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Who do you work for. Anti uga is written all over u. It must be killing you that kirby is taking recruits u want to go elsewhere. U also dont seem to be as smart as u think u r.
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Who do I work for? Why, whoever pays the subscription fee, of course.
I don’t have to be as smart as you think I think I am. I just have to be smarter than you, which appears to be a pretty low bar.
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Grcrunkleton, wut?
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Stay off the sauce this early in the morning.
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Yours is one of the oddest things written on this Blog. And that, bubba, is saying a mouthful.
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The criteria used to generate those lists was just bizarre. The way I would think about it is to say, “Which coach would I pick if I could have anyone to run my program for the next five years?” Saban & Dabo are obvious, but Chris Peterson at 3 is baffling to me… especially if you jump to Lincoln Riley at 4. Is it a career achievement status? Is it a what-have-you-done-lately status? To his credit Peterson elevated Boise State to national prominence, but he didn’t build it from scratch. He has turned around moribund Washington, but has done so as Oregon has reverted to the mean, USC has not been a national contender, and the PAC-12 in general is closer to the AAC than the SEC. He has had one playoff appearance and is 1-4 in bowl games with Washington.
Jimbo, I’ll buy. He coached a Heisman QB and won a national title. I could see him being at the top of the second tier. Brian Kelly I understand because he has built consistent (if not always elite) winners with two NCG appearances. I don’t think I would take Lincoln Riley over Kirby. Under Kirby, there has never been a side of the football as egregiously bad as Oklahoma’s defense has been the past two years under Riley. As an OC, that’s not his problem. As the HC, it is under his purview. Why you would have him ranked so highly as an HC when he oversaw that defense is beyond me.
James Franklin? James Franklin’s success was having Saquon Barkley. I’ll be interested to see how far his personality will take him without players to cash the checks his mouth writes. Going forward, I suspect PSU will be more like the 17th-ranked 9-4 PSU than the 7th-ranked 11-3 PSU.
Which brings me to Kirby. If this is a Jimmies and Joes sport, and it really seems like it is, he is a better recruiter than every coach mentioned above. He has won numerous titles as a coordinator with lots of experience coaching (and winning) in the playoffs, now even as a head coach. He has gone toe-to-toe with Saban, losing coin-flip games for championships, and has more recent, consistent success than Chip Kelly, Jim Harbaugh, Chris Peterson, Chip Kelly, Mike Leach, etc. while coaching in the SEC. In 2019, Kirby will coach against Brian Kelly, Jimbo Fisher, and Dan Mullen. If he wins all three of those games, he likely gets another go at Saban. That’s just for a shot at a playoff berth. Which other of those coaches on either list will have to run that type of gauntlet, and if they did which ones would go 3-0? And then to say if he doesn’t win a title in the next two years that he is a bust is patently absurd.
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Thoughts:
– We were patient enough to go from 2005 until 2011 without a single appearance in Atlanta. I’m not saying that’s the threshold (it’s absolutely not), but you’d deserve to be in fanbase purgatory if you fire Kirby and he’s doing things like playing competitively in Atlanta, or, even winning in Atlanta and losing in the playoff. That would be a move so dumb we would deserve to suck for a generation if we make it. Jesus Christ, we’ve gone 22-2 over the last 2 regular seasons. (the sugar bowl sucked, yes, and I am pissed and hope that never happens again). But still 22-2.
I don’t really care to compare early Richt to early Smart. Each one played the hand they were dealt. Ok, Richt didn’t have the luxury of a 4 team playoff. Well, he also had the luxury of a much less “Process Built Out” version of Nick Saban. I was in college when Saban was at LSU–yeah, they were really good, but it was in no way the nearly impermeable machine it is now—AND NOBODY THOUGHT IT WAS EITHER. There’s no way a Nick Saban Alabama team ever lays a 2004LSU level turd on the field like they did that (glorious) day.
In my book, there are only 2 WTF Kirby coaching days: 2017 @Auburn and Texas. LSU wasn’t perfect, but Fromm had an uncharacteristically shitty day. “Oh but the run was working and we abandoned it.?” Bulllllshit. Big time SEC west teams you have to throw to run, and we all know this. (how many times have we complained about being too conservative ?).
I’m not worked up over either of the Alabama games. Don’t like the fake punt call, but that was one play. It sucks we haven’t beaten them twice in the last 2 years, but you have to be high off yo’ ass to get cold feet with a coach that had us right there vs the greatest dynasty of all time.
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This^^. Solid analysis. Mistakes? Sure. Everyone makes them, even Saban. Meyer, Riley Herman,etc. have all made mistakes. How did CMR ‘plateau’? IMHO, it wasn’t that he forgot how to coach, or that he didn’t know anything about recruiting (a lot of his recruits are still playing on Sunday), but it became obvious to almost everyone but Greg that he wasn’t going to do both at the same time with consistency. In my eyes, it looked like CMR was mailing it in all too often. If it gets to a point where CKS is mailing it in maybe we need to look around, but I don’t see that happening, and more to the point it has almost nothing to do with winning a NC. If they are asked the same question about Riley at OK – if he doesn’t win a NC in the next year or so should OK get rid of him? Herman? It’s just a ridiculous standard.
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I don’t get where this is coming from. Last year’s team was extremely young and took Alabama to the wire. Recruiting has been top notch and especially impressive at positions of need. I don’t understand any view but unbridled optimism.
The offense should be humming. An improved O-line, healthy RBs, and bigger WRs should help us solve a lot of the red zone issues from the preceding year.
Our defense brings back a lot from a very solid unit. They may not be Clemson’s front four, but we have plenty of experience and depth up front and a lot of talented newcomers.
This could very well be the best Special Teams unit we ever field, assuming Camarda develops as expected.
I’m giddy just thinking about it.
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Some people are never happy. If Georgia had beaten Bama in January, 2018, they’d still be bitching about the fake punt and Sugar Bowl performance and saying things like Smart had only won with Richt’s players. For some people, the other shoe is always waiting to drop.
In all likelihood, Georgia is going to play Alabama for an appearance in the playoff again after going 12-0 or 11-1. Hopefully, they’ll hold the lead next time.
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My oh my how we have already gotten spoiled. This is classic. Are we really taking about CKS would be a disappointment if there is no NC in the short term? I understand the frustration with the “brain farts” by CKS in big games but shouldn’t we be happy to be in the big games? And going blow for blow with the best team in CFB? Oh yea, and in just 3 years? And it looks like we will be in the elite picture in the foreseeable future?
I have been waiting for us to be this relevant for a LONG time. It was not too long ago UF was dominating UGA YoY and not to mention the total melt downs UGA would have in big games. The games that actually counted btw.
We are not that team any more and for that, I am thankful. The NC win will come if we keep swinging the way we are….How fun is it to watch UGA right now!? These are good days
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Kirby will get us there. All we have to worry about, at least in 2019, is Fromm and Swift staying healthy. These two beat writers have to hit their clickcounts during a long offseason somehow so they figure an arbitrary ranking of head coaches will do the trick.
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Lists like that are clickbait stupidity.
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Unlike a lot of you I was here for the 1980 championship, I celebrated with everyone else, but by the first of march the elation had worn off. Then like a drug you want another championship. The reward is fleeting, excellence year in year out with a coach that’s not sleazy skunk keeps me satisfied.
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There are several factors that will ultimately determine Kirby’s fate. The first is can he keep recruiting at the current level, if we keep losing in the Championship games. The new age players are all above the rings.
The next is the number of players that choose to leave after 3 years. Fourth and Fifth year guys are the leaders. We will continue to be a “young” team if this keeps happening. Finally, Kirby has got to overcome the age old problem with DC,s becoming HC, strangling their own offense. He needs a really creative OC, that can score against the Alabama’s and Clemson’s, yes I know we did but I still can’t get over the UF game and the 6 brain died calls on the UF goal line. Chaney was good but not great. Here’s hoping the new guy is better and Kirby turns him lose.
In summary, I don’t have the delusions of grandeur that a lot of UGA fans have. I have watched long enough to know we are usually a good football team but we have never been one of the great programs, not under Butts, Dooley or Richt. Hopefully this will change.
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“The new age players are all [about] the rings.”
I don’t agree … Today’s college athlete is about being prepared for their professional league. If it were all about the rings, there would be no talk about whether Zion Williamson should or shouldn’t play in the NCAA tournament. He would be there no question asked as long as he was healthy.
If it were all about the rings, TG3II would have told Greg McGarity to stick his suspension up his @$$ because he had no reason to come back after he was hung out to dry by the AA. He came back and got hurt. You could make the case that injury vs. Auburn cost Todd about $7m (roughly $5m in his signing bonus) in his rookie contract if you believe he was likely to be a top 5 pick before his injury.
If Zion doesn’t come back even though he’s healthy, he ends up as a footnote in Duke basketball history. The main reason TG3II is still revered in Athens, GA was his decision to come back and play when there was nothing to play for.
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Unlike a certain DB this year?
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I was talking recruiting not already playing. Your certainly correct that the recruits want to go to the next level but guess what Alabama puts more in the pros. Of all the players that come to Georgia not that many will get to go pro. If UGA doesn’t keep winning at the elite level the recruiting will fall off and then Kirby will get the CMR treatment because we will just be middle of the pack. It’s not going to happen soon, it didn’t happen to Mark soon but it happened.
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It’s never too early to start….FIREKIBRY!!111!1!11!
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I just want a coach who is more religious and based in Faith…..
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CKS will be at UGA for awhile….maybe as long as he wants. saban has yet to beat UGA under CKS….we just didn’t get the W. Who’s gonna ‘ replace CKS in 2-3 years, yet maintain UGA’s (current) status in college football. We all know as long as UGA beats FU, the barners and fech year in and year out, throw in a trip to the seccg on a regular basis life is good for the HC and staff. Naturally UGA needs to get to the cfp regularly for the media dipsticks to give their approval for rankings, blah, blah, blah.
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How many years did Dabo need to build his program, before pulling the brass ring ? ‘Nuff said.
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Oh yeah, re the P word…it’s undefeated.
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Wow. All you gotta do to get the morons out of hiding is mention the slightest possibility of maybe some time years on the horizon if everything goes completely wrong at every turn…. that we might one day maybe need to evaluate the prospect of possibily hiring a new coach.
I mean, damn people get you heads on straight.
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Well, get ready, because those off weeks for everybody before we play us are a real thing and it’s going to cost us.
If we get through this year undefeated, they need to just hand us the trophy because making us play a playoff will be unjust.
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Saban was 52 when he won his first championship, and it was another 6 years til he won a 2nd title. Kirby is 43. In 3 seasons he’s got an sec championship and been to the CFP title game. Only a fricking idiot would suggest giving up on Kirby in another 2 years!
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So, the P word is plateau? Huh. Ok then, I say Kirbs deserves more time. I don’t think we need to go down that road just yet.
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