And for a guy who insisted Brice Ramsey was a mortal lock to start at quarterback this season, Dean Legge sounds like someone possessed with the fury of a thousand suns. Makes you wonder if he lost a bet.
- Bloviation for the Dawgnation
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“We remember the Sugar Bowl, I think it my junior year of high school, we let Alabama beat us twice,” Brinson said of a team that also lost to the Crimson Tide in the SEC Championship game. “We’re not letting Alabama beat us twice. In the Sugar Bowl in 2018, they… thought they should have been in the playoffs and lost to Texas.” -- AB-H, 12/27/23
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Get The Picture · Bloviation for the Dawgnation
Get The Picture 
I couldn’t even finish that rant. Lambert has struggled no doubt. But he’s also made some great throws and obviously has a better grasp on where to go with the ball than Ramsey (I know, that’s a scary thought). Ramsey proved he was in over his head in the Alabama game (1 completion to Georgia, two completions to Alabama).
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One was a bad read from Godwin. It’s not like we haven’t seen that before. The second was a poor throw. I’d have been more interested to see what Ramsay might have accomplished against UT and Mizzou.
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” obviously has a better grasp on where to go with the ball than Ramsey”
HOW THE FRESH HELL DO YOU KNOW THAT!?! What a conclusory and ridiculous statement based on not a shred of data.
It’s not a good idea to start out a post with “I didn’t read the article but I know it’s wrong.”
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Wow. You’ve just reminded me why I never post on these sites. Ramsey was 1 of 6 with 2 ints against Bama. That’s some pretty good damn evidence right there. I’m done posting again for the next 5 years. Have fun asshole.
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Thanks for stopping by! Really enjoyed you writing off Ramsey – a 4 star recruit that Bobo trusted to when Hutson went down – based on 6 passes against the best D in the country. Great analysis!
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I promised myself I wouldn’t respond, but your response is just too rich. You do remember what Ramsey’s first play was when “Bobo trusted to when Hutson went down” (Whatever that means). If you don’t, please allow me to refresh your memory. It was an interception. Carry on.
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So throwing an interception on the first play in the his first game as a starter means Ramsey sucks.
How about throwing an interception on the first play of your 7th game as a starter? (after 2 years starting at another program).
I’m not saying Ramsey is the second coming of Aaron Murray. But he can’t be worse than what we’ve got in Lambert. I have to believe Ramsey has a higher upside too.
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—>”But he can’t be worse than what we’ve got in Lambert.”
You sure about that, chief?
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Sure? No. It’s speculative. But all that I’m seeing and all I saw last year when Ramsey played suggests to me he won’t be worse. To rephrase, I deeply believe he can’t be worse.
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—>To rephrase, I deeply believe he can’t be worse.
See…I respect that. But at the same time, disagree. I believe he can be worse…because he has been worse. The numbers say he’s been worse. And yep, it’s a small sample size…but I don’t see how it makes sense to throw out the fact that he’s thrown 4 INTs in 65 career attempts and just believe blindly that he must be better.
And see…I’m not one of these ‘let’s play for 2016’ guys. I don’t think it’s fair to those who have bled for the Red and Black…seniors and juniors.. to not be given playing time based upon how good you can be on Saturday versus how good you may be next year if we play you. If a freshman is better…play him. If a senior is better…play him. This isn’t the NFL.
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Holy shit! Respectful dialogue!
I guess I disagree. Getting better, especially at the qb spot, usually involves a lot of playing time. In fact, with the strange exception of Hutson (who was above average, not great), I cannot recall a single UGA qb that played well in their first season at qb (Shockley had lots of real time experience before 2005), perhaps excluding David Greene. Shock struggled at first, Stafford struggled badly, Joe Cox, Aaron Murray, and now Greyson. All of the intermittent starters as well (JT3, Brice).
My point being – at qb, you need to play who you think will be better long term and develop them. Especially in a situation where you have a ton of data on a guy like Lambert and little on the other guy who should, in theory, have a higher upside.
I’d be very curious to hear Richt’s response to a question about that. I’m guessing he would say publicly he sides with you.
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Seriously.
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I guess I just don’t get how everyone can write Ramsey after extremely limited play but give Greyson the benefit of the doubt. We’ve seen a lot of evidence on Greyson by this point, and he’s got a lot more game experience. If I’m declaring a verdict on anyone, it’s on Lambert.
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I don’t give Lambert the benefit of the doubt. I give Richt and Schotty the benefit of the doubt. I believe that they know a thing or two about QB play/development. Perhaps even more than the high school recruiting gurus.
Ramsey doesn’t have much game experience. But he hasn’t exactly blown anybody away when he does get in the game.
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Somewhat similar to Lambert, Ramsey’s playing time has been a mixed bag of impressive throws and stupid decisions.
That’s tough. I’m curious if more playing time for Ramsey would tilt more towards impressive throws or stupid decisions.
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Ramsey needs game experience. He at least has potential to get better.
We’re at the end of the Lambert trail and there’s no gold.
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I really wish we had just started Brice after the Florida loss last year. Then we could have really seen what he could do and he would have had some real experience going into this year.
I do think that there’s a chance that if Ramsey gets in there and gets comfortable, he could be very good.
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“Then we could have really seen what he could do and he would have had some real experience going into this year.”
That’s not a bad plan in a vacuum, but we all know that the usual suspects would be screaming for CMR’s head after Brice costs us 2 or 3 additional losses to this point (not that we’d know that but still).
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Like throwing a pick that ended the Tech game? Or playing poorly against Alabama and Tennessee? We haven’t been immune to the QB hurting us in games either way.
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You’re assuming that you know QB development better than Richt/Schotty. I’m not ready to buy into that assumption.
I’m not declaring Lambert the answer at QB. But I haven’t heard anything from anyone with actual knowledge indicating that Ramsey is.
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Much like the fire Mark Richt guys who want to move on, even if it’s to an unproven and volatile commodity, I’m ready to move past Lambert to something else, even if it winds up being worse. The chance that it may be better is more appealing than the knowledge that we have a dud on our hand now. I don’t need to be a qb development guy to know that Lambert isn’t going to get better.
Talk to me after the Florida game and tell me how you feel about Grayson. I suspect we’re going to see a terrible performance from both of them. If that’s the case, I’d like to get Ramsey the chance to get comfortable as a starter and see if he can do better.
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Actually, you DO have to be a QB development guy to know whether Lambert will improve. And even then, it’s just an educated guess. I’m simply recognizing that Richt/Schotty are more educated than we are.
So, like my opposition to the “Fire Richt now” crowd, I’m not necessarily arguing that Richt, or Lambert is the answer for a championship. I’m simply acknowledging the strong likelihood that making a change for the hell of it will end up worse. I have no desire to sabotage the season just to say that we did something. Mediocrity is better than sucking unless you’re playing for draft picks. We aren’t. We gain nothing by losing games.
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The season, in my mind, is over. But if Richt and co think Lambert gives us the best chance to win against Florida, so be it. I acknowledge your point that I am speculating about who will be better long term. I also believe Richt is playing to win now, and that Ramsey is a better long-term pick. Richt may even agree with that but I don’t know.
IF Lambert shits the bed against Florida and we lose, who will you want at QB after that?
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If we lose against Florida, I will want Richt to start the QB who gives us the best chance to beat Kentucky. I will not see Lambert’s performance as a personal betrayal. Thus, I will not insist that we start a poorer player just to stick it to Lambert.
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From your post below: “I’m simply acknowledging the strong likelihood that making a change for the hell of it will end up worse. I have no desire to sabotage the season just to say that we did something. ”
Can I get an Amen?! There are a lot of people Internetting and calling into Finebaum arguing that a) we should be winning MNCs b) we aren’t, so naturally c) we have to do something different. This assumes a couple of things to be true without enough information to be determined. The first is that UGA should be winning championships despite the fact that quite obviously UGA as an institution is clearly very satisfied with the status quo. Second is the weird psychological tic of doing something for the sake of trying harder or merely the appearance thereof.
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yup Ramsey is from the WIng T offense of Camden County. He ran it in middle and high school. So I don’t really expect him to flourish in the I-formation. However, I did expect CMR to consider it when he was recruiting him.
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a-fucking-men
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I am sure it never occurred to him. Jeez. Man that gator guy, bbs, is a genius thinker. Has to be a leader in 3rd grade PE class.
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I figure the coaches watched Lambert and Ramsey during practices and were able to draw conclusions as to relative merits from practices and scrimmages.
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My god, that was the epitome of TL;DR
I tried to find criticism of Ramsey’s inability to read defenses and propensity for turnovers in there, maybe I missed it. Sure, Lambert is a potential turnover machine, but Ramsey throws the ball right to the other team every 3rd pass or so. It’s always a beauty of a pass and the kid has a golden arm, but I have little doubt he could set single game & season interception records if he was in there full-time.
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I’m not saying that Ramsey hasn’t been careless with the ball, but you fail to acknowledge Lambert’s struggles with reading defenses and his fondness for throwing the ball to the other team. If Mizzou’s defense backs had better hands, we may be talking about Lambert’s 4 or 5 interception game against the Tigers instead of just the game where he threw a lot of completions for nothing or negative yards.
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“Sure, Lambert is a potential turnover machine …” If that’s a failure to “acknowledge Lambert’s struggles with reading defenses and his fondness for throwing the ball to the other team” then you have very high standards for negativity indeed.
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I guess what I mean is that “Sure, Lambert is a potential turnover machine, but Ramsey throws the ball right to the other team every 3rd pass or so.” sounds a lot like the only difference between them in that regard is that Lambert’s bad passes have been dropped. I also took that to mean that you were excusing Lambert’s bad passes that should have been intercepted vs Ramsey’s bad passes that were intercepted. Maybe there’s something to be said for being lucky, but Lambert could easily have 6 or 7 more interceptions on the season if the other team just caught the ball when it was thrown to them (4 or 5 more vs Mizzou, 1 or 2 vs Vandy, etc.). When that’s the case, I don’t really see any advantage to playing Lambert right now. We know what he can and can’t do. I would rather see if Brice can get some production between throwing balls to the other team as opposed to Lambert’s recent combination of almost no production and passes thrown straight to the other team. BUt the coaches get to watch them practice. Maybe it’s far worse than it seems.
But I get what you’re saying re: Legge dissecting Lambert’s shortcomings, but not addressing Ramsey’s. I’m not sure that Brice can’t learn to read defenses better. Lambert seems paralyzed by indecision at times whereas Brice seems to be foolhardy in his confidence. We’re not in a great spot at QB.
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From my POV, Lambert is overly cautious, Ramsey is overly careless. Lambert’s potential picks seem to mostly be tipped passes & miscommunication. Not giving him any pass by saying that, it’s still frustrating as hell, but he is mostly respecting the football. Ramsey reminds me of Stafford in his first year, hell of an arm, but some decisions that make you cringe.
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Lambert has thrown his fair share of balls straight to the other team, though. Several of them vs Mizzou and the really bad one vs Vandy come to mind.
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To paraphrase Legge… he’s a ‘turnover machine’ because he has almost turned the ball over.
Seems close only counts in horseshoes, hand-grenades, …AND the collective down-grading of UGA OCs and QBs by pundits with an axe to grind.
it’s really too bad UGA won against Mizzou….then he’d REALLY have something to write about.
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The DB dropping the ball doesn’t mean throwing the ball there wasn’t a mistake. In my opinion, it’s just as bad (when you’re grading your QB) to throw a pick as it is to throw the ball directly to the other team and the defender drop it. Lambert should have at least 5 more picks on the season. I think that counts against him.
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By the same rationale…that people dropping the ball doesn’t mean it is on the QB…UGA should have beaten Tennessee and Lambert ‘should’ have probably about 10-15 more completions. But THOSE ARE EXCUSES!!!!
This whole thread is folks that see the whole picture and folks that want to cherry pick…I guess that explains why Dean and Fletcher Page have an audience.
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But there are plenty of people giving Lambert credit for that throw in the Tennessee game. And it was a good throw. He missed other open receivers in that game, but that one drop was a good throw.
I’m not sure that our WRs have 10 drops, but whatever. Throwing the ball to a WR who then drops the ball is obviously not a problem for the QB. I’m not holding any WR drops against the QB. But throwing the ball to a DB who then drops the ball IS a bad play for the QB.
That’s not cherry picking. Lambert makes a lot of bad decisions. He’s lucky that he hasn’t thrown 7 or 8 picks already this season. Does that not seem like a problem to you?
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If Davis had made the catch at the end of the Tenn. game (it was a perfect throw) would everyone still be bitching about Lambert? Probably. The #2 QB is always the greatest player on any team. Maybe UGA could throw the ball down the field if the OL could be trusted to give just a little protection. I just don’t know about CBS. The O we are trying to run is exactly what he has always run. The great unanswered question is what was MR looking for when he hired CBS?
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Davis catching that ball wouldn’t change how Lambert played for most of that game or how he played vs Bama and Mizzou.
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Unless there was less than 10 seconds left on the clock, Tennessee was almost guaranteed to drive the ball back down the field against our “defense” on that day.
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“The #2 QB is always the greatest play on any team.” We had a segment of our fan base that believed that in 2012 with AM.
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But Parker Welch had a gun, I tell ya!
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He may be a little scorned but I really can’t disagree with much of what he said
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That’s kind of what I was thinking. The numbers are undeniable. Lambert is the worst QB we’ve had at UGA since at the very least Cory Phillips and probably further back than him.
He doesn’t protect the ball. He doesn’t push it down field. He is objectively speaking bad.
I’m not sure Dean Legge has said anything in his article (which is poorly written but so is everything he writes) that isn’t dead-on.
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Based on the numbers? He’s fourth in the conference in passer rating. That’s not really out of line with how UGA QBs have done since 2007.
It’s what we see on the field that distresses us about him.
You really think Lambert’s worse than JTIII?
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The numbers being his inability to protect the football, which purportedly was one of the reasons he got the nod. That’s been a total fallacy. The amount of fumble alone are astounding.
How many points has the offense scored against Bama, UT and Missouri? It’s been abysmal.
And, no, he’s not worse than JTIII. But he sure has been allowed to play a lot more than JTIII.
And he’s a lot closer to JTIII than he is to Cox or Mason.
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And if there were a Matthew Stafford on Georgia’s roster right now, Lambert probably wouldn’t.
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I bet Ramsey could manage a 53% completion percentage and a 7:13 TD:INT ratio.
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After the Alabama game (minus-22 passer rating), I wouldn’t be too sure about anything.
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I just find it weird how people talk about Stafford. He was bad as a freshman, mediocre as a sophomore and good as a junior. I loved watching him play, too, but I think his obvious physical gifts have blinded people to how he actually played.
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Agree that Stafford’s freshman year was just what you’d expect from a true freshman playing SEC ball (although he did show promise in the way he handled the end of the season).
But Richt didn’t have much choice on the decision to bench JTIII and move to Stafford, either. And that’s not the case in 2015, at least from my point of view.
Georgia doesn’t have a good QB this season and doesn’t have a QB of the future on the current roster. People need to get used to that.
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They do, because whatever ceiling Ramsey has or had, it’s pretty obvious now that he won’t reach it for whatever reason. Lambert has actually been serviceable if the defense had been good enough or the running game had been dominant. But here we are.
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I’m really not sure about this:
“whatever ceiling Ramsey has or had, it’s pretty obvious now that he won’t reach it for whatever reason”
He’s only a sophomore and he has had very, very limited playing time (which is when a lot of QBs really develop). I’m not sold that he just will never be a viable option. Lambert is a RS junior who is in his second year as a starter and we have seen the best and worst of him. I’m not sure that he’s ever going to be better than he is right now.
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He’s better than he was last season. I just don’t know if he’s hit his ceiling in Athens.
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You’re right. I’m probably assuming too much. This season is a bust for him, regardless.
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Ramsey is a redshirt sophomore who was an early enrollee, He’s had 3 years in the system, I don’t think you can sell that he’s green (I’m not buying it, at least).
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“Ramsey is a redshirt sophomore who was an early enrollee, He’s had 3 years in the system, I don’t think you can sell that he’s green (I’m not buying it, at least).”
But now he has a different OC and a different system. If Bobo were still in Athens, there is little doubt that Brice would be the QB right now, agreed?
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He had 2 years in Bobo’s system…almost 1 in Shittenheimer’s. He said something like “I had just got the old offense down–now I’m starting over.”
What is clear to me is that Lambert–for some reason has been given the benefit of the doubt and Ramsey has not. Especially the Senator’s comment above about the AL game. They put him in against a far superior team down by a ton and expected a miracle. Bummer first play–he is done.
Could it be an attitude thing keeping Ramsey out of the conversation? I don’t know If I was him I would have transferred the second they announced Lambert as the starter. I am with Legge. It seems like Ramsey has gotten the short end of the stick.
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Beg to differ with you on that.
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I agree we don’t have a good QB on the roster and can get used to it, but I’m not going to be happy about it.
This was a good podcast talking about our recent failure to recruit well at the qb position (post 2009). https://www.dawgnation.com/football/dawgnation-daily/new-dawgnation-podcast-this-is-why-uga-is-struggling-at-quarterback
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I think the larger worry (and where I can’t really argue with Legge) is that Schotty looks less like a slight step back from Bobo to potential disaster.
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Just so I’m clear…Ramsey throwing 2 INTs against Bama doesn’t matter because they have a great defense…but Lambert threw 1 in 24 attempts against the same defense and he sucks because he couldn’t do anything against them?
BTW…someone said Stafford had a ‘mediocre’ Soph season above….that’s kind of true…but starting with the Florida game…he got a pretty good roll. They were 5-2 and buried by the media after losing to Carolina, Tennessee and squeaking by Vandy by 3 the game prior to Florida. Not saying there’s a repeat coming…but there sure is a lot of season left.
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Against La-Monroe he had a 479 passer rating! If you’re going with stats based on less than 10 throws, that’s a small sample size.
He threw the ball 6 times vs. Bama. The only game he’s had more than 10 attempts this year was against Southern. We know the kid isn’t that bad.
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—>We know the kid isn’t that bad.
So the argument is that the small sample size doesn’t tell us that he is bad and alternatively guarantees that he’s good? Better check your rhetoric there, chief.
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We’ve seen him play better and we know he’s got upside. Obviously i’m not arguing the Bama game was a good game for him. You’re just being petty now, chief.
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Lambert’s been bad enough to see what others can do under better circumstances than the Bama game.
If, as the coaches have said, the competition was very, very close, then there’s every reason to mix it up a little bit.
The offensive output right now is as bad as its been at UGA since before Richt has been the coach.
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Bauta hasn’t been able to beat Ramsey out through several years and two offensive coordinators. But let’s give him a shot anyway, eh?
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It’s amazing how many people don’t get what “coach speak” is. What coaches say publicly means next to nothing. Especially with Richt. He’s always positive with players, even when they have no shot at playing. He still says AJ Turman is “working really hard,” yet we’ll probably never see him play.
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I felt the same way about Logan Gray right up until they put him in against UF, took about two series to get that feeling out of my system.
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I recently had a discussion with a friend that included this question: “Surely this isn’t a Logan Gray ‘be careful what you wish for’ moment is it?”
The scary thing is that Cox was much better than Lambert has been.
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No he wasn’t.
Memory is a funny thing.
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Cox made more mistakes, but he had some games where he was very effective. I’m not sure Lambert could duplicate Cox’s play vs Arkansas. Though I’m not sure Lambert will ever look as bad as Cox did vs Tennessee or Florida. If Mizzou’s DBs could catch, maybe he would have this week.
Honestly, I think the Mizzou game may be weighing heavily on my opinion of Lambert. Recency bias is a bitch, but that was an awful game.
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Looking at the stafs, I’d have to say it’s a dead heat between Cox & Lambert, at this point. Cox threw a ton of INTs. Remember when he tried to throw the ball out of bounds and the UT guy jumped up and caught it? Or when he threw it right at the USC rusher who picked it off and waltzed into the endzone?
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Looking at the stats, they aren’t that far apart, though:
http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/257/82180/passing/gamelog.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/player/257/1050216/passing/gamelog.html
Cox had a higher passer rating in his worst game (vs. Tennessee) than Lambert did in his (vs. Alabama).
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So we’ve gone from Cox being “much better” to “not that far apart”. Progress, of a sort.
BTW, Lambert’s had three games of 200+ passer ratings. That’s in half a season. Cox had two in all of 2009.
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In all honesty, I regretted the “much” in “much better” as soon as I clicked “post”.
I think a lot of my QB angst is related to watching Murray play vs. watching Mason (who did admirably, but still had struggles moving the offense and attacking downfield) and Lambert.
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I actually agree with you. Cox makes for a pretty good Lambert comparison.
And I miss Murray, too.
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That seems like classic misdirection to me. Every back up is on the bench because they couldn’t beat out the guy in front of them in practice. But, at the end of the day, it’s in-game performance that matters most. And, outside what’s looking more and more like a statistical outlier, Lambert’s in-game performance has been decidedly below average.
Yes, Ramsey looked bad against Bama, but he did so under the worst possible conditions. Lambert looked bad throughout, not just when he got shoved into an untenable position.
There are objective reasons to question the coaches on this. Lambert has been that bad.
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In October he’s the 11th best rated. http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/911/player/split16/category02/sort02.html
Vs winning programs he’s the 12th best.
The data is so fundamentally scewed by the cupcake games and the USC game that it’s not painting a realistic picture.
I don’t know if he’s worse than JT3, but he’s not better.
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Last I saw was “giving us really good looks on the scout team.” Wow, with praise like that, he could be starting any time now.
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Dak Prescott has played Texas A&M, Troy, and LA Tech in October. But you know…skewed data and all only counts when talking about Lambert, right?
Mizzou and Bama both have top 10 defenses against the pass. Bama has played Arky, TAMU and UGA in October…and has held them to a collective 80 passer rating and made 8 INTs…(6 if you don’t count the Ramsey INTs…which I know you don’t…but still…)
If you want to make an argument on stats, don’t cherry pick.
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To whom are you directing this comment?
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Sorry, my browser went nuts. It’s to me.
I included the stat about against winning programs to illustrate how badly the USC game is skewing Lambert’s stats. If he’s the 4th best QB in the conference I’m Abe Lincoln.
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I would take Cory Phillips right now.
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Over react much?
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Can anyone possibly believe in high stakes D1 football a coaching staff would leave the best option at QB on the shelf? Apparently so
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They wouldn’t do it purposefully, but it does happen sometimes. It’s possible that it happened in this case, but Dean Legge has no idea whether or not that’s true. And neither does anybody else. It gives people something to talk about though.
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I have never seen so many people talking about things like interceptions that did not happen….Munson, May His Name Be Blessed, used to say “Intercepted…and dropped” which is a malapropism I was more than happy to give Larry. I tend to be less forgiving with folks who are selling me something.
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Group think and entrenchment happen to the smartest men and women in the world, in government and business.
Why is it so hard for some to believe that it could happen in college football?
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Urban Meyer stubbornly started Cardale Jones over Braxton Miller and JT Barrett because of a miracle 3-game stretch to end 2014. Braxton and JT are both better suited for his offense, yet Cardale got the nod. And Meyer is widely considered one of the top 2 or 3 coaches in college football.
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Lol…He didnt start the 2 guys he had coming off of season ending surgeries to start the season when he had a guy that just put together one of the greatest 3 game runs in college history.
I am not sure that proves any sort of oversight by their coach.
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the Falcons coaches started Steven Jackson of Freeman last year. Yes, coaches are human and do dumb things based on loyalty and other non-logical decision making. Like playing a mediocre and proven dud with no eligibility left after this year instead of a higher-upside sophomore who could help us next year as we break in a new QB.
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*” Like playing a mediocre and proven dud with no eligibility left after this year….”
If you’re referring to Lambert, he still has a year of eligibility after this year. He graduated UVA in 3 years, and used a redshirt year.
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that’s the worst news I’ve heard all year. And my grandpa and two of my dogs died this year.
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I hear he’s probably going pro
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Well tell us how you really feel Dean…
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I can tell you from long experience in that arena that one of the more difficult aspects of being a beat writer covering a college football program is separating what you know from what you think you know.
You never really know, really, what the head coach or any of the coaches are actually thinking, but that does not stop you wondering aloud what the coaches are thinking.
Not knowing what they are thinking, and by extension what they are looking for and seeing or not seeing, SHOULD stop you from second-guessing coaches.
It seems clear to me Legge has an agenda to be named later, although I suspect Blutasky is close to the mark with his “pundit scorned” observation.
The only enlightenment I got from Legge’s rant was the Lambert might have been interested in Colorado State, or that CSU was interested in him.
That’s interesting.
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Agree with you and the Senator, Legge is like others here where their opinion is more important to them than what happens to the program. They get consumed with themselves and lose all objectivity about their agenda item. It is more understandable with anonymous internet posters who may, or may not, be immature/unsophisticated folks who simply have access to a keyboard. They may not even be Dawg fans at all. But in Legge’s position it is totally unacceptable.
I would love for him to be right, and a solution to our offensive woes be just that easy to find but the evidence so far doesn’t support that level of rant. As a reporter allowed access for just 10-15 minutes to certain practices it is irrational for him to challenge the coaches who are there for every rep. Who knows? It may all click for him during this bye period and Ramsey turn out to be our savior but it still would not justify him coming forward with a “I told you so” position. He has lost all credibility, imo, and I wouldn’t mind seeing his access restricted.
And as the Senator points out, the struggling offense isn’t all on Lambert and while the consistency may be an issue, you cannot deny he has had him moments. For BR to not have locked down the position before Lambert arrived is all on him, he had plenty of time to win the trust of coaches and players.
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He’s just trying to sell a product. His just happens to be of poor quality.
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As I said above, the only interesting thing to me in the piece is that there seems to have been, according to Legge, some interest in Lambert vis a vis Colorado State…does this mean Bobo was somehow involved or something…or is that just speculation considering that Bobo recruited Lambert out of high school? I suspect I just answered my own question. 😦
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I read it mostly as “didn’t have the talent to play for any power 5 school, but wanted to stay in Div-1.”
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Mr. Legge, seat 37F is ready for you, sir.
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I bet we’ll see lambert start against Fla, but he’s gotta be on a short leash. He’s been given ample opportunities to take firm grasp of the starting job, which he’s squandered. I, for one, would like to see Ramsey get legitimate playing time, not just a token series or the crucible that is getting blown out by Alabama.
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I wouldn’t be surprised by any of the three starting against Florida.
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Bauta playing against Florida would be fairly shocking. I also think Lambert is a second INT away from being pulled. It’s been stated by several people (myself included) all year: We don’t have a good QB on the roster. Ramsey isn’t good. Lambert isn’t good. Bauta isn’t good. That means you’re forced (by their own recruiting mistakes, mind you) to pick a lesser of two evils.
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I agree that Bauta starting is highly unlikely. I just wouldn’t be surprised by anything they decide to do in the off week to generate an offensive spark. Unless they actually do open in the wildcat. That would shock me.
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Starting Bauta would be the equivalent of wearing black jerseys to get the team fired up. We know a little something about how that works. I agree Lambert is not and probably will never a great quarterback but, in my very inexpert opinion, I think he’s gotten better and may continue to improve. It’s been said by others that it’s likely he’s got the effects of poor to no coaching at UVa to get over. Ramsey? I just don’t know but he’s made more than his share of bad decisions and he’s had a lot longer to improve in the system than Lambert has.
I used to worry about this kind of stuff but I keep remembering that, if I really knew about football, I’d be outside with a whistle instead of sitting at this desk.
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Starting Bauta would be a radical change that I don’t expect to see. But given what we have seen thus far, I do hope he gets some plays in live action. I will take any potential spark at this point but feel Lambert is our best known option.
I don’t really see the “black jersey” issue you mention. I see no relationship to the jersey color we wear to our performance on the field. If there is any, it seems to be all upside. Some players might get amped about it, but how could it hurt? I do think announcing it in advance is the wrong approach, it certainly doesn’t matter what polo color the fans wear to the game.
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Agreed. I don’t think it does much for us starting Bauta just as it doesn’t do much for us wearing black jerseys. That’s the inspiration for the analogy. However, I agree that Bauta deserves some playing time. Everything I hear about him in practice is positive, he’s a team guy, and I’d very much like to see him on the field. He deserves that.
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Wait–didn’t Ramsey run the Wishbone in HS? Maybe that is the answer!!!
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I think he actually ran the single wing.
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Ramsey ran the Wing-T in high school. I’ve heard that Lambert did as well, actually.
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There is something about the cut of Ramsey’s jib that rubs Richt the wrong way. I’m guessing it’s that Ramsey either doesn’t carry himself or prepare the way Richt wants his QBs to, but honestly that’s just a guess.
I do think bring in an NFL coordinator was a bad idea, but I thought that from the very beginning. I saw all of that I needed to see with Grantham.
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I dont think you have to guess that Richt doesnt like the way that Ramsey preps. Richt has said as much several times. It’s why Lambert is here. You dont have to guess that he doesnt like it, we know he doesnt like it.
That Ramsey still doesnt get it and wont change is clear that football is over for him.
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“I do think bring in an NFL coordinator was a bad idea, but I thought that from the very beginning. I saw all of that I needed to see with Grantham.”
The jury is still out for me on Shotty’s abilities, but in his defense he’s working with a crap-shoot at QB (that he inherited), an OL that’s Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and a lot of young talent at WR. The play calling has been dull at times, but honestly I’m not sure what I truly expect him to do.
Also, not everyone from the NFL is as bad as Grantham. Shotty has a much longer track record as a coordinator and was never fired. Which is more than we could say about Grantham.
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“Also, and this might be worse, the passing game didn’t put an attempt into the end zone. That is to say that even though Georgia had the ball inside the Missouri 20-yard line 11 times – not once did an attempted pass travel into the airspace of the end zone. Not once. Georgia didn’t take a shot into the end zone the entire night. ”
No words.
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No kidding. Gotta tip your hat to that level of consistency. Whew.
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Watching the game, I kept saying to myself and then out loud, “Fade pattern…give it a shot. Take a shot.”
And we never did.
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I was begging for a corner route for Godwin from the slot. It would have been wide open with just a trailing safety.
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I said this on another post…the play where Lambert almost threw the INT was supposed to be a corner route. They had one on one on the SW side of the endzone. Lambert hiked it, stared it down, and then didn’t throw it. I still can’t explain why not.
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There seems to be a segment of the UGA fanbase (and apparently media) that wanted Ramsey to start, thought Ramsey would start, and are now pissed he didn’t, which leads to threads like, “Schotty wanted “his” guy” and “this is all Schotty’s fault.”
I have a very hard time believing Richt would allow Schotty to start a QB he (Richt) felt was a worse option.
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All the talk (that’s the genteel way to put it) would end if this team met those unnamed expectations for the season…beat Bama or Tennessee and all this analysis would be about the kicking game. Ramsey is the choice of the dissatisfied cause he’s there.
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Oh absolutely. When QB1 struggles QB2 always looks like Steve Young, just waiting in the wings to dominate.
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He and Fletcher Page sound like petulant children at this point.
I stopped reading when he downgraded Lambert’s long throws because they were against Non-Sec competition but then cited Brice’s 8% deep throw stat…knowing all of Brice’s deep throws are against crap teams or when UGA is up 15+.
Not to mention as long as we are taking Brice’s small sample size and expounding on it…how about those 4 Ints in 95 throws? Dean’s deep stat analysis is cherry picking at its absolute worst.
What they are pushing is literally trash. I can understand criticism. It’s deserved after Saturday. But both of those guys have lost all credibility with me.
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If you had kept reading you would have noted that it got worse. He completely leaves out the td passes into the end zone by Lambert that traveled good yards in the air. This is pure unadulterated trash aimed at an OC and QB.
Legge is vying for the Early Imitation Cojones Posts Award that was written years ago against his sort of shit posted here. His inane headers have kept me from reading his “Duh!” remarks before.
Irwin, you should have stopped at the first sentence since it was spot on and covered the discussion field.
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Never been a huge Legge fan, he has a weekly call in spot on the sports talk station up here (Roy Philpott Show), and he just rubs me the wrong way. Some of the stuff he says just makes me shake my head and say “WTF?”
So I take everything he says with a big grain of salt. I’m sure there are elements of truth in that article, but definitely seems to be slanted towards an agenda. I think his agenda is less “Anti-Lambert” than it is “Anti-Schotty” at this point though. And I can’t say I haven’t had some of the same thoughts about Schotty.
I do think there is probably some truth to Schotty falling in love with Lambert’s brain. I bet if you tested Lambert in the film room, he gives the right answer almost every time, without fail, more often than Ramsey does. Yet that just doesn’t always translate on the field – he either doesn’t make the right read, or makes the right read and just makes a bad throw, etc. It’s hard to believe you can complete 70% of your throws in a game and look as bad as Lambert did in the process of doing it.
I fear we’re approaching the “Crisis of Faith” level that you addressed several years ago, Bluto. Not on a whole team level just yet, but definitely on offense. The coaches are losing faith in the players (or at least the QB) to execute, which in turn gives the players less faith that the calls in the first place are the best plays to be called. We know what kind of results that leads to.
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Dean is definitely in the pro-Ramsey, anti-Schotty camp, and he’s using Lambert’s (admittedly bad) stats as the hammer to strike at Schotty. He and Fletcher are on the same (wait for it…wait for it…) Page in that regard. But Richt/Schotty didn’t do themselves any favors with how they handled the QB battle, though. Saying it was super close gives ammo to those who want the other guy to play when the current guy struggles. Playing Ramsey one series a half was just weird, too.
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Yeah and I agree with what you said above about “coach-speak”, but I don’t consider what Schotty said at that last press conference to be generic coach speak – saying unequivocally that Ramsey is gonna play, so Lambert just needs to expect that. Then hasn’t given Ramsey a series since.
My criticism on that isn’t the fact of not playing Ramsey, if he’s not the best option. My criticism is more an agreement of what you said about how Richt/Schotty haven’t done themselves any favors in how they have handled the situation. Why say something as specific as that, when clearly that wasn’t the plan? (I know plans can change, but still, that was a pretty specific thing for a coach to throw out there, only to turn around and not do it). Like you said, it just unnecessarily gives more ammo to the naysayers.
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It seems like the coaches wanted to see if maybe giving Lambert all of the snaps without having to look over his shoulder for Brice might help with Lambert’s confidence. That’s all I can come up with.
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Yeah and again, I have no problem with that, if that’s the plan. But if that’s the plan, don’t say something else to the media, or you’re just opening yourself up to even more 2nd guessing. And it’s not like this is a strategy thing, no D-coordinator is going to change up their game planning on the chance that Ramsey might get one series.
Plus, I’m just really down on both Richt and Schotty right now, and looking for something to complain about. 😉
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Lambert is 4th in the SEC in QB rating.
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He is. But against Vandy, Bama, Tenn and Mizzou his rating is 125 and some change, which would be 10th in the SEC.
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As to your last point, I think that was pretty obvious when you look at the fourth quarter play calling.
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No kidding. They put one hell of a governor on Lambert. And as you said at the time, it made sense. Only way UGA loses was to turn it over. However, trying to run an offense like UGAs while hiding the QB is impossible and leads to disaster. The SEC Network breakdown clip you linked to was so depressing. The first play shown (which was a success) should have been at the very least a 40+ yard bomb, if not a touchdown. Yet Lambert didn’t see it or didn’t have the guts to throw it.
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Lambert as a QB reminds me of myself as a golfer. Apparently he outshines everyone in practice, like I do on the practice tee. However, put him in the game and he wets his pants, like I become Shankapotamus on the course.
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DL is also the one who teamed up with Fletcher Page to name our offense the “No Schott” offense. That may be funny when talking to his friends in private, but it is a terrible show of unprofessionalism that is damaging to recruiting. If he wants the offense to get better, he’d better realize part of the equation (and I would say the biggest part) is getting better players on campus. We have a great class building. The last thing we need is for some doofus blogger/reporter to get the extreme portions of our fanbase to start chanting “No Schott! No Schott!” at the games. They’ve already been writing articles about how the TEs aren’t playing as big a role and blaming CBS, right when we are trying to land the nation’s no. 1 TE prospect for next year. How stupid.
Richt has been around and in charge of very productive, and yes, innovative, offenses for 25 years. He has coached Heisman winning quarterbacks and been OC on national championship teams. Does DL think Richt doesn’t realize the offense is struggling and why? I won’t stoop to calling DL names (other than doofus), but he needs to wake up. The only reason anybody thought we would compete for a playoff spot this year is because the media began pushing it over the summer. Why? Beats me. I guess they think two great running backs and four good OLB can overcome deficiencies at QB, WR, DL, ILB, and youth in the secondary. Not in this league. We’ve got great future players on campus and recruiting is really going well, but this was never our year. The East? Maybe. Playoff? No, without a miracle which didn’t come. Sorry to all of those who thought it was, but don’t screw up recruiting with your whiny criticism in public. And if you think the kids don’t notice, you’re fooling yourself.
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It’s not their job to butter up for recruiting, though.
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Not their job to do what they’re doing now, either. I don’t mind if what they’re saying is true, but it’s not. Printing only what you know to be true or making clear that a statement is only your opinion is not buttering up for recruiting.
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No it is not, but neither is it their job to bring a personal agenda to their reporting. A beat writer who does not “like” the head coach’s selection as offensive coordinator…and shares that with the reader? Amazing.
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Legge isn’t a beat writer and neither is Page. But I agree Legge doesn’t think Schotty is good, and he certainly has ample ammo to say that through 7 games.
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Ok, swap beat writer for “sportswriter who covers Georgia football regularly?” 🙂
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When your publication is team-centric? Homes doesn’t write for the AJC.
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Yes. Even when your publication is team-centric. They aren’t supposed to recruit for UGA. They’re supposed to cover how Georgia recruits.
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Great post, Jeff.
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When is the last time you saw the patent UGA ‘back shoulder fade’? And, how do you complete 3/4 passes for 1 yard? That is mind blowing.
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Think Dean’s blog is more about the OC than the QBs. Doubt if any fan Does not think the coaching of the OC is substandard for the SEC. I think the OC is over matched by SEC defensive coordinators. Could be wrong, but his performance in last three games are proof enough for me.
Perhaps that is the general consensus because Legge says UGA made a hiring and contract mistake, i.e., the buyout clause. And UGA is not UF re the guts to make a decision and financially move on. UF will recoup their money in near future with the program their HC is rapidly building.
Once again we see the misspent money on ex-NFL hires by CMR and roster management.
Dawns could be for a long disappointing slog out.
Plus if the OC messed up these QBs could he do it with a 5 star prospect?
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But, Will, is it not possible that Dean is just full of shit? Thinks he knows more than he does? Has no idea what any of the real thinking is?
Who do you trust to evaluate quarterback talent and potential? Mark Richt or Dean Legge?
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Don’t waste your keystrokes replying to this guy, Scorp. He has no interest in a conversation.
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Surely we could afford $1.9M to fire Schotty if we wanted to.
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The extended “family” is already stretching roots — Old Man Schott was wandering around the locker room after the Missouri game.
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Well, then let Marty call the plays.
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Could thing the OC was not down two lineman like the DC was in the last game.
CMR took over direction of play calling against Mizzou in second half.
Never saw a HC to get a 3 FG win like CMR was. Even with a very young injury riddled D he could depend on it in that game so long as the offense and special teams did not kill the chances for a win.
Football state of affairs in Athens is pitiful.
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I wonder if Schotty just thought College Ball would be a cake walk after all his NFL experience?
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I can’t take anyone seriously who actually thinks Ramsey should start. His signature is throwing interceptions on his first pass of the game. I totally understand the frustration with Lambert, but it’s not Schottenheimer’s fault that he arrived at a program with zero talent at qb.
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You mean like Lambert did?
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Yeah, once in 7 starts. I’ve seen Ramsey do it twice upon entering games.
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Exactly!
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Ramsey played terible against Alabama and poorly against Vanderbilt. Who cares how Ramsey did against Southern?
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Brice was 2/4 for 50 yards against Vandy and had the first completion of the game. He really didn’t play that badly in that game. In fact, his passer rating (102.50) was better than Lambert’s (98.78).
No doubt he looked terrible against Alabama, but he was put in an impossible situation and had thrown 6 passes in the previous 3 games combined before being asked to “spark” the offense against one of the best defenses in the country, in the pouring rain, and facing a huge deficit.
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4 passes is just too small of a sample size. Ramsey’s had plenty of chances to impress coaches and win the job and he just hasn’t.
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I’m responding to you saying that Ramsey played poorly against Vandy. I agree that 4 passes is too small of a sample size.
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Think Legge is beyond the QB . He is calling out the OC evaluation of them and the state of affairs since the OC got one campus.
Maybe it is a work in progress. Sorta like one step forward but two back. And Dean uses the chain movement for his argument. Played 3 solid defenses. So has UF, but their OC kept their offense on track on the SEC road with a different QB.
Dawns were a preseason top 10 pick. UF tools up Dawgs roll down. I doubt if we see a miracle in JAX, even an Appleby to Washington play.
Think the entire offense is playing to the level of the NFL OC.
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When I hear about an NFL OC in college, all I can think of is Decided Schematic Advantage. It’s a different game and OC at each level require different skill sets.
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And yet even with the 9 point outing…UGA sits at 5-2 in the conference, scoring on average the 6th most ppg against SEC foes. (and having played two of the top defenses in the conference in Mizzou and Bama)
The offense is not nearly as bad as folks want to make it right now. That doesn’t mean it is good…but good grief.
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typo…3-2.
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Did you look at points scored by the offense or points scored by the team? And the USC game has kind of skewed our offensive numbers a bit as well.
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Just Scoring…I get your point, but when looking at how we stack up in the conference, those things really tend to come close to evening out over the course of the season. For example, UGA has 4 non-offensive TDs and sits in 6th in scoring…Ole Miss is 5th..they have 3 non-offensive TDs, TAMU is 4th and has 3, Tennessee is 3rd and has 3, Bama is second and has 5, while LSU is first and has 2. Florida behind us has 3,
And you’re right about the Carolina game…but if you throw that game out, you have to throw out Mizzou, right? I mean, that game was just as flukey. (oh wait…you only want to throw out outliers that hurt your argument?…got it)
BTW…52, 45, 26, 24, 10…that’s the points given up by Carolina in the conference games UGA, LSU, KY, Mizzou, and Vandy. Throw in that they only gave up 17 to a UNC offense scoring 40ppg and I’d say that the 52 against Carolina didn’t just happen because South Carolina is bad.
Bottom line is that the offense has looked great against Carolina and the cupcakes, looked good enough to win against Tennessee and Vandy, and looked bad against Bama and Mizzou. It’s a mixed bag. I’d hesitate calling it ‘good’ or ‘bad’ overall.
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That seems right. Our offense probably is middle of the road in the SEC, and we are just used to better. But our disparity in performance between the bad and good defenses we have faced is amazing. Loading up on cupcakes will ultimately get us nothing.
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Agree. I think I said it before the Bama game…I thought we had to beat Bama. Not because of standings in the SEC, but because I thought if we don’t, it is probably proof that we aren’t good enough to run the rest of the table. It definitely looks a lot different than I thought it was, but it’s basically true.
Now…that doesn’t mean we still can’t win the East and have a shot at the SEC title. We’ve received some help from LSU and are hoping for the same from Bama this weekend. It’s a little screwy how it played out…but it sure does feel right that the East comes down to UGA-UF-UT again.
Let’s beat Florida…I like having these discussions after wins much more than after losses.
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Beating Florida would be a major step up in play for this team. I hope there is way to get it done.
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The Bama loss was a team loss..I have a hard time seeing how anyone is blaming Lambert for the loss at Knoxville. IF we don’t fumble the game away and catch TD passes laid in our breadbasket at the goal line, we are sitting pretty. All this nonsense about Lambert is ridiculous.
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I thought Ramsey was the way to go from the beginning. I’d rather worry about reigning in talent than trying to wring it out. The tie goes to the guy with the cannon IMHO.
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It depends on what the talent is doing. I would rather ride a donkey to town than Secretariat in the opposite direction. Secretariat is more talented, but if he’s not pointed in the right direction, the talent is wasted.
The coaches believe that, despite Ramsey’s superior arm strength, Lambert is currently their best option for winning games. They’re probably right about that. They certainly have more information, upon which to base an opinion, than we do.
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Our offense is absolutely depressing.
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This comment stuck out just a bit and in my mind rendered the article as pointless:
“But the reality is that Richt isn’t without fault.”
Huh?
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Trying to sift through that error-strewn rant made me weep for the English language. Legge is in dire need of an editor (though I suspect there is not enough money in the world to pay for that position).
That said, I understand his frustrations. The issue, however, is that I don’t believe the current back-up would have been some sort of savior, even with the September schedule to work through. I think we have been undone by our QB recruiting/coaching. That we are so shocked by what’s on display is also a statement on how well we have (generally) avoided these issues in the past. This happens way more often than not to most college programs.
The interesting part will be to see how we react from here. I don’t expect to see much from the rest of the season, but it would be nice to see a sign of development/logical progression of the offense to suit what abilities our QBs do have, however infinitesimal.
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Well said, Yer Majestic…. I just hope our coaching staff and players can live up to Dean Legge’s obvious expectations.
Who knows? We might even win a couple football games in the process.
I do have one question for Dean Legge: Dean, what did you know about Benghazi and when did you know it?
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Agree. But your point brings up another issue. Why are we keeping dead weight backup QBs on the roster if they aren’t developing into dependable starters or backups? One would think Ramsey and/or Bauta would have been shown the door after a couple seasons and we’d have busted our tails recruiting better material to work with. Don’t we trim the roster of other positions/players who will never see the field (unless we have a blow out)?
This will upset legge further, but CBS may be looking at Lambert as a god-send, considering the other QBs he had to work with since he came to town. Maybe Schotty is the one shaking his head when thinking about the position CMR placed the program in with regard to QBs.
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It’s just hard to keep top talent behind a 3-4 year starter like Murray. They barely held on to Mason…who, as we all know, is a DGD but certainly not a world-beater. That’s not just at UGA…that’s everywhere. Bama and Tennessee have been dealing with the same issue after Bray and McCarron. Who started for Tech after Reggie Ball left?
DJ Shockley staying until 2005 was a long shot in the early 00s. It would be almost impossible now to imagine him hanging around to start a year.
Ideally…you sign a 5 star kid in the junior year of the outgoing stud. (Think Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinart)…but that’s actually pretty difficult to do. Blake Barnes and Joe Cox in 2004 and 2005 were both 3 stars and top 10 Pro Style QB’s. Did catch lightning on either of those…so when you sign Matt Stafford in 2006, he ends up starting that season. You lose Barnes…Cox stays around for a while…and since there is just about zero local QB talent in 2008…you have to ride Joe Cox until the two other studs you sign in 2009 can show up. Honestly, if you asked me in January, I would have said they did a better job this year recruiting and preparing for the drop off with Ramsey and Park than they had in prior seasons.
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I’m not quite as pessimistic about our coaches as you are. Bauta was our 2012 signee and was the #15 dual-threat QB in the nation. In 2013, Ramsey was the #14 QB in the nation. In 2014, Park was #4 in the nation. In 2015, we signed Robinson, who wasn’t highly ranked. And in 2016, Eason is a hard commit ranked #1 in the nation. I don’t see QB recruiting as a big problem.
Now, our QBs certainly aren’t living up to their recruiting hype. And if that were a consistent theme on Richt-coached teams, I would agree with placing blame on the coach(es). But I think the man who coached Charlie Ward, Chris Weinke, David Greene, DJ Shockley, Matt Stafford, and Aaron Murray has proven that he is more than competent as a QB coach.
It seems to me that UGA has been spoiled with very good QB play and is now regressing to the mean. Maybe the coaches can develop the QBs and/or scheme around their deficiencies enough to make this year successful. If not, maybe Eason can come in next spring with his hair on fire and win the job.
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Wow, 100+ comments. I guess everyone’s a pundit and they’ve all been scorned. All I can say is that if they played my guy, he wouldn’t suck as much as your guy.
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And the best defensive game we played for several years bites the dust.
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No shit, Cojo…the idea that any football fan found this game boring is simply astonishing. Amazing. Sad.
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Here’s an interesting thing, to me: Missouri is fifth in the nation in net punting average, Georgia is 48th. Yet I don’t see Dean Legge or any other football writer talking about that. Or its impact on the Georgia-Missouri game, or its impact on the season. Quarterbacks are a lot more glamorous.
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Legge doesn’t mention Missouri in the best defense in the SEC. The defense had an easy matchup against a powerless offense in Missouri.
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Dean (wait for it, wait for it…) punted on that issue
h/t parrishwalton
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Did that put him…a Legge up?
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Yes but only the shank
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Well I was in the stadium. Perhaps boring isn’t the best description. But it certainly was the most unsatisfying Georgia win I can remember witnessing in my lifetime. And I’m damn near sixty. Leaving the stadium I kept thinking to myself that I don’t normally feel this bad after a loss. The offense was excruciating to watch.
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The author Legge really gives no solution that’s better than Lambert, and that’s the issue. Offense is still top ranked nationally in rush and pass yards per carry. Something tells me Legge should be more concerned about the amount of points the defense has coughed up in both losses.
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I think he was pretty clear that naming Ramsey the starter at the beginning was the way to go. He also suggests that Ramsey should be the starter going forward. The issue isn’t whether he’s provided an answer, it’s whether he’s right. Also, the d while not great, is good enough to win the east.
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Ramsey isn’t a better solution, he played significantly worse than Lambert against Alabama, 68 pass rat to -22.
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I guess Lambert is just too big to play quarterback, Derek
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The defense had an awful game against Tennessee. But they have looked better than the offense in every other game we have played.
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Not really. The offense was flawless against South Carolina. The defense was merely good.
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Defense played good in the wins, and bad in both losses. Offense played good in the wins, and bad in 1 loss to Alabama.
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The offense was not good in the Missouri win.
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Really was a pretty good offensive showing considering it was against a top defense. 5 trips to the red zone, completed a high percentage, got a lot of receivers involved, and Michel and Douglas ran well. Come to think of it, the defense has only held 2 teams to under 10 points, so we’re great 2 of 7 games, Southern and Missouri. Offense has scored 30+ and were great 5 of 7 games.
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You’re giving the offense credit for the Floyd fumble return and Davis punt return in the UT game.
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Good point, still offense has played great in 4 games, defense has played great in 2.
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I can’t figure out which 2 games you think the defense played well in. I thought the defense was good against LA-Monroe, Southern, South Carolina, Vandy, and Mizzou, and played poorly against Tennessee (especially as the game went on) and Alabama. The offense played well against LA-Monroe, Southern and South Carolina. The offense was largely absent and often mediocre against Tennessee (17 points against a team that allowed 30 to Bowling Green, 28 to Florida, 31 to Oklahoma, and 24 to Arkansas isn’t that good, IMO) and absolutely terrible against Mizzou and Bama.
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Which 2 games? I mentioned them above, but Southern & Missouri, we held both to under 10 points (not good offenses). Those are the only 2 teams we’ve held to under 10 points this year I believe. The defense gave up in the other 5 games, no great performances.
Mizzou 6 (bottom 3 offense)
Southern (Div 2 offense)
14 to Lo Monroe (bottom 20 offense)
14 to Vandy (bottom 10 offense)
20 to SC (bottom 20 offense)
24 to Alabama (top 35 offense)
38 to Tenn (top 25 offense)
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Other than Tennessee and Bama, that’s not that bad, especially considering 10 true freshmen have played on defense.
The offense doesn’t have that excuse.
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I disagree. Pruitt has faced 5 bottom 20 offenses in 2015.
0 shutouts
3 of 5 scored 14 or more
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If you hold an opponent to 14 points, especially in a blowout where you play a ton of freshmen, then that’s actually not too bad of an outing. Scoring less than 20 in modern football is a pretty poor offensive performance. Look at scores around the country. There are a lot more 42-20 scores than there are 14-0.
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The defense in the losses is performing worse in scoring than the offense. For example, in the 2 losses, the defense ranks 11th in scoring in the conference, and the offense ranks 5th in the same 2 losses in scoring.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/911/team/defense/split12/category09/sort01.html
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The offense also struggled for most of the day vs Tennessee. The defense and special teams scored 14 points.
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450 yards of offense, and almost 8 yards a play against Tennessee.
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It was the quietest 450 yards you’ll ever see. About 65 of those yards came on the last drive of the game when UT traded yards for time.
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Considering we lost Chubb on the first play, 450 yards of offense is down right impressive. Can’t believe we lost, when we had a 24-3 lead, thought the defense could hold the 21 point lead, but we got outscored 35-7 from that point.
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I understand, but of those 24 points, 1 TD was a defensive TD and the other special teams. Sony still had over 100 yards rushing. Here the drive chart:
3 plays, 9 yards, PUNT
3 plays, 0 yards, PUNT (after an interception)
3 plays, 6 yards, PUNT
5 plays, 75 yards, TD
9 plays, 68 yards, MISSED FG
6 plays, 72 yards, FG
1 play, -9 yards, HALF
3 plays, 3 yards, PUNT
7 plays, 9 yards, PUNT
4 plays, 73 yards, TD
3 plays, 6 yards, PUNT
5 plays, 25 yards, PUNT (dropped TD pass)
12 plays, 72 yards, END OF GAME
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How about Tennessee’s last 8 drives:
TD
TD
PUNT
TD
TD
PUNT
TD
Punt
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It was a team loss – no doubt. The offense left the defense on the field because they couldn’t sustain drives. The defense couldn’t get off the field. At the end of the game, the defense bowed its neck and got a stop after special teams gave up a big punt return to flip the field. I
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It was a team loss, but in the loss, the offense scored 17 (ok, not bad, not great), and the defense allowed 38 (terrible).
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17 points in 2015 against a mediocre team that gives up 26 points per game is pretty terrible.
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If 17 was all the team scored, I would agree, but in context, putting up 31 points as a team on TN should have been enough for the “w”. You were protecting a 21 point lead and trusting your defense.
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Totally agree – the problem was the offense didn’t control the ball to give the defense breaks after the Michel fumble and the defense didn’t get off the field especially in the 2nd half when given opportunities.
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I don’t 2nd guess Shotty there on going conservative to protect the lead. He trusted his defense to keep em out of the end zone, I mean what were the chances TN would outscore us 35-7 from there? Slim. We just couldn’t make them kick field goals in the red zone, that really was the difference. Even so, the 2 mistakes by the Reggie drop, and Sony’s fumble wold have won the game. Sucks, really does. But hey if TN loses to Bama and we beat the Gators, all is well.
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The worst thing that could happen did – the Sony fumble on the kickoff. After that, we lost control of momentum.
Definitely rooting for the Tide to roll this weekend!
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Yep, TN grabbed the momentum at the end of the half with those 2 quick scores, then the Sony fumble to start the half, and it was pretty much done. Once Reggie dropped the TD, you knew that was probably it.
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“I don’t 2nd guess Shotty there on going conservative to protect the lead. ”
There was more than a half to play. That’s not what happened. “Playing poorly” =/= “going conservative”. The offense was pretty bad the entire game. When you get outscore 35-7 to lose by 7, there are two issues… One, giving up 35 points is no good. But scoring only 7 points after that first half FG also cost us the game.
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That’s right.
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The offense has had a rougher challenge in going up against 3 of the top 25 defenses in Alabama, Vandy, and Missouri, where the defense has only had to face 1 top 25 scoring offense in TN. That skews the stats quite a bit. Offense isn’t as bad as it looks, defense isn’t as good.
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Scoring 17 on Tennessee was terrible and inept. And don’t forget that the defense that gave up 38 also scored 7. I just can’t excuse either unit for that pitiful loss.
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True, Tenn’s defense sucks. We should have hung 45 on them, with Chubb we likely would have. Didn’t have time to prepare a gameplan around Sony at RB. But no excuse for letting them outscore us 35-7 with a 21 point lead either from a defensive standpoint–indefensible.
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I’m sorry, but Vandy and Mizzou do not have enough talent on defense to stop good offenses consistently, and our offensive ineptitude against them, IMO, is not excusable, given our talent advantage. Overall, our schedule has been very favorable for us, with five overmatched teams. We have beaten no one to date.
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Scheme and execution on defense is excellent at both places. Missouri has one of the best front 7 in the country, they just play great, make up in scheme and coaching and execution what they lack in talent.Derek Mason can coach some defense.
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I agree that they are well-coached. But what does that say about our offense? Are we well-coached? We have far more talent on offense than either of these defenses. Given equal coaching, we would have the advantage, IMO.
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Good question, the sample size is too small to evaluate Shotty, he’s only faced 3 top 25 teams at Georgia so far, but the sample size is bigger for Pruitt, and I am more concerned about Pruitt. Shotty is the only coach to hang 30+ points on Mason at Vandy this year, but his offense looked bad against Alabama, and pretty good against Missouri about the same yards as Florida put on Missouri.
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I’m not sure the offense scored all the points against Vandy. Didn’t we have a pick six? I need to look that up. As far as CJP vs. CBS, I don’t know what to think. Both seem to make their living off of the bad teams we have played, then underperform when teams of equal or greater talent arrive. Not good at all.
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Seems we had a pic6 and a kick return?? not sure.
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Pruitt has only faced 2 offenses that ended up top 25 in scoring.
GT in 2014 = Loss
TN in 2015 = Loss
0-2 record, 0% win %.
Shotty has faced 3 top 25 defenses
Vandy = Win
Missouri = Win
Alabama = Loss
2-1 record, 67% win %.
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Are you saying that the offense won those games? I think the defense won the Vandy and Mizzou games you refer to more than the offense. And the offense vs. Tech last year vanished in the second half. I understand that CJP is not your favorite, but our offense is at least as bad as our defense, IMO.
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I am. You don’t need defense as much against such terrible offenses (both ranked in bottom 10). Offense did enough to get the W when going against top 25 defenses 67%. Team is 0-2 when Pruitt faces a top 25 offense.
Granted, Pruitt could get 2 more wins in 2015 against top 25 offenses in G South and G Tech, but we’ll see, so far, 0 wins.
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Pruitt’s defense beat Mizzou and was brilliant against Auburn last year. This is a weird new argument.
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The grad asst’s could have outcoached Mizzou’s offense, remember, they are the bottom 3 nationally. Absolutely no achievement to hold Mizzou to 6 points. Lambert had a challenge going up against a top 25 defense, and he got the ‘W’.
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Dude, they stopped Mizzou’s first drive of the game that started inside the Georgia one.
I don’t care how low the Tigers rank. That’s one hell of an achievement.
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Didn’t Mizzou run it up the middle there 3 straight plays? I mean that was cool, but nothing else really impressed against a bad offense. I want to see a shutout considering we’ve faced 5 of the bottom 20 offenses. Isn’t that reasonable?
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Georgia pitched two shutouts in 2014.
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Even if Mizzou scores a td there, instead of running backwards up the middle 3 plays, you still win 9-7 because the offense got to the red zone 5 times and scored 3. It was insignificant really.
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You are assuming the rest of the game would have proceeded exactly as it did after the stop. How can you know that for sure?
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The shutouts in 2014 against the 73rd and 108th ranked offenses were cool, but I thought defenses got better in the 2nd year, why the regression considering he’s faced 5 powerpuff offenses in 2015 and 0 shutouts?
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You must have missed all the true freshmen running around out there on defense this season.
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I thought they should have recovered the fumble on the first run on the goaline. Or forced one and recovered. Good to see Pruitt’s working on that this week, needs a lot of work. Need to force more turnovers especially against such awful offenses. No excuses,even age. I’m surprised at how poorly the secondary played the 2 times they were tested they gave up a 68% completion rate against Alabama, and over 300 passing yards against Tn. La Monroe threw for 200+, Vandy for nearly 300. I thought Pruitt was a secondary expert. Guess not.
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“I thought Pruitt was a secondary expert. Guess not.”
Against Mizzou we started 3 true freshmen and a true sophomore in the secondary and we allowed 3 points (the other 3 were on the offense with the INT to the 1).
When you win a game 9-6 and the defense dominates the entire game, maybe Pruitt’s troops aren’t the ones to blame for the stressful game. I started to wonder at one point if we would have to score a defensive touchdown to actually get in the endzone. Luckily, we didn’t need to because the defense played so well.
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I’m just not used to the defense playing so poorly in the losses. Grantham’s d generally were top 3 in the conference in losses. Not been the case under Pruitt.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/911/team/defense/split12/category10/sort01.html
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So, your argument against Pruitt is that we give up too many yards in games that we lose. That’s a new one. And also the first time you’ve chosen that specific strange metric to attack the defense.
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No. Let me put it this way. You are trying to figure out what caused the losses. The offense ranks No 5 in losses in the conference in total offense, but the defense ranks No 11. So the defense is 2x more responsible for the losses than the offense. By the numbers.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/911/team/offense/split12/category10/sort01.html
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“his offense looked bad against Alabama, and pretty good against Missouri about the same yards as Florida put on Missouri.”
The offense was beyond terrible against Mizzou. Yardage doesn’t mean much. Florida scored 3 TDs against Mizzou. We scored 9 and gave them 3.
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It was good enough to get the win against a top 6 scoring defense and a top 12 pass defense. It was the 2nd most yards Mizzou’s defense gave up all year, we moved the football about as well as anyone has.
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9 points!
“Good enough” is not a valid argument. The offense was atrocious against Missouri. I would be shocked if you could find 3 Georgia fans who agreed with you that the offense – which didn’t get into the endzone a single time for the first time in 5 years – did well against Mizzou.
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You didn’t read my post. My validity was how Lambert was the No 2 highest yards put up on Mizzou this year. He moved the ball better against an elite defense than pretty much anyone.
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“My validity was how Lambert was the No 2 highest yards put up on Mizzou this year. ”
What? Lambert had 178 passing yards against Mizzou. Behind Florida (208 yards), South Carolina (186 yards), and Kentucky (249 yards). That puts him 4th and only ahead of UConn, Arkansas State, and Southeast Missouri State. You’re wrong. Again.
Our 9 points is behind Florida (21 points), South Carolina (10 points), Kentucky (21 points), and Arkansas State (20 points). That’s not so good for the Georgia offense.
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Here’s exactly what I’m referring to if you have to have the link. notice Lambert had the 2nd best performance against Mizzou in pass rating, barely behind UF by 1 point.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/team/434/passing/defense/gamelog.html
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You said:
“My validity was how Lambert was the No 2 highest yards put up on Mizzou this year. ”
I proved that you were wrong and now you wanna talk about passing rating. I think we’re done here.
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Lambert completed 72% of his passes against the No 12 pass defense, hardly a terrible performance. So he goes up against a big time elite defense, and comes up near the top in pass effic and accuracy. And gets the “w’.
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Unfortunately, it says that our offense is missing several pieces that would be necessary to make it competitive on anything other than the level we have seen. First, the offensive line is not playing as well as we had all hoped, Second, the QB situation isn’t good, and the only hope for it to improve would be for Lambert or possibly one of the others, to suddenly find their groove.(it could happen. like placekickers, QB’s can develop a “head case” that comes and goes). Third, we are not very deep at reciever positions, althought we see some hope with some young guys stepping up. Fourth, losing Chubb was huge, but may be the least of these problems if he is 100% against Florida.
These are all tied together. If Sony is 100% against Florida, it willl help the running game and the passing game…our junior recievers will have more confidence after playing against Mizzo, and should be able to get some space between them and the reptilian defensive backs (thinking play fake..which, by the way, Lambert doesn’t sell nearly as well as his predecessors did) Also, I believe K. M. should be playing a lot..I believe he is one shot of confidence away from becoming a beast of a running back. I’ve seen others say his “burst” is diminished, but I don’t think so..I think his cut-back is weak and mostly mental. Once he burns one, I think he’ll be fine.
The hardest thing to fix is the O line. If they can play a little better, maybe we can release a tight end for a pass more occasionally.
I have a gut-feeling that we’ve seen the worst and things will be better starting in Jax.
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Wow……….I don’t have the five hours necessary to read this epic string. Has to be the longest thread since I have been on the good Senator’s blog. Regardless, I had doubts about Schottenheimer from day 1 and doubts about Lambert after talking to my buds who live in the Commonwealth and know a thing or two about UVA football. They were like, “You guys want WHO at QB? What are you crazy??……” Lambert has ZERO confidence and should be replaced. With this ruined season in view, maybe we should just turn to Bauta and see WTH he can do. Could things be any worse? The lizards are going to feast on Lambert next week. I predict they beat us by 30 points.
Out, pt. II
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F*** it. FIRERICHT! HIRESPURRIER! Do. It. Now…would be priceless to see SOS hobble out of the tunnel in JAX on our sideline holding UGA X by his leash.
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its about weapon deployment. you have no QB but a stable of backs and TE, put Faton at QB Sony and Isiah in the slots, flex Jeb and J Rome and have Marshall/Douglas at RB. Figure that Sh**t out Gators?
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We don’t have a QB on the roster.
Can’t we just snap straight to Sony?
Put in two FBs and just roll with it. Go all in on the Darren McFadden offense.
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Sony…meh…If I told anybody I had a stiff groin they’d be amazed. 🙂
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Good God, Blutarsky…helluva thread on Quarterbackus Interruptus. OC talent is rampant.
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We were at the ASU Georgia Southern game last night and i believe that ASU’s QB is better than Lambert!!!!
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In 35 years of watching every UGA game on TV i believe that we have never had a worst QB situation!!!!!
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I won’t believe that until you include more exclamation marks.
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Fred’s doctor told him to cut back on the ALL CAPS.
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Perhaps you missed those two years when Greg Talley was starting or the half season of Brian Smith.
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Lambert is currently in the top 4 in the conference in all 3 categories he controls: accuracy, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Should he remain there by the end of the season, that’s only been done twice since 2008. Once in 2008 by Stafford and once by Murray in 2012. That feat was not done in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, or 2014. By the numbers, he’s actually having an excellent year overall, despite the naysayers. True, he didn’t play his best in the losses against Alabama or Tenn. But even then, top 4 in all 3 categories. I thought he played a lot better against TN than Bama, he did do 8.7 ypa vs TN and posted a 140 passer rating and threw for 279 yards and 2 td’s. Alabama, he struggled and it was a big reason for that loss. But, a lot of guys struggle against Alabama. Tex A/M Qb’s threw 4 int’s. Dak is the only guy to play great against Alabama in 2015.
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In a year where the SEC has largely mediocre QB play, that’s not that impressive. How does he rank nationally?
78th in yards per game (182.3)
70th in passing yards (1276, est. 2370 after 13 games)
55th in passing TDs (9, est. 17 after 13 games.)
31st in yards per attempt (8.2)
31st in completion percentage (64.1)
T-19th in fewest interceptions (2, est. 4 after 13 games – assuming the opposing DBs keep on dropping the ball)
32nd in passer rating (149.28)
He also doesn’t come anywhere close to our best QBs. Murray’s numbers are great, but they reinforce how ineffective Lambert has been in more than half of a season as Georgia’s quarterback. For comparison’s sake here are some other guys at UGA in recent years:
2014 Hutson Mason (in a year where the coaches openly talked about how bad the passing game was struggling):
90th in yards per game (166.8)
87th in passing yards (2168)
49th in passing TDs (21)
29th in yards per attempt (7.8)
6th in completion percentage (67.9)
T-23rd in fewest interceptions (4)
10th in passer rating (155.75)
2013 Aaron Murray:
17th in yards per game (279.5)
28th in passing yards (3075)
20th in passing TDs (26)
13th in yards per attempt (8.9)
24th in completion percentage (64.8)
T-88th in fewest interceptions (9)
12th in passer rating (158.82)
2012 Aaron Murray:
25th in yards per game (278.1)
11th in passing yards (3893)
5th in passing TDs (36)
1st in yards per attempt (10.1)
32nd in completion percentage (64.5)
T-90th in fewest interceptions (10)
2nd in passer rating (174.82)
2008 Matthew Stafford:
15th in yards per game (266.1)
14th in passing yards (3459)
T-17th in passing TDs (25)
5th in yards per attempt (9.0)
37nd in completion percentage (61.4)
T-85th in fewest interceptions (10)
15th in passer rating (153.54)
And, just for yucks, here’s 2009’s Joe Cox:
59th in yards per game (198.8)
48th in passing yards (2584)
T-15h in passing TDs (25)
30th in yards per attempt (7.8)
89nd in completion percentage (55.7)
Outside of the top 100 in fewest interceptions (15)
41st in passer rating (135.92)
Lambert’s somewhere between Mason and Joe Cox and miles away from Murray and Stafford. He isn’t having a good year, because he’s not a very good player. His stats are propped up by 2 games where he was very good, including the South Carolina game that is definitely the game of his life. By the end of the season, I suspect Lambert’s numbers won’t be anywhere close to the other QBs you chose to compare him to.
At this point, I feel like you’re just trolling us.
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The context is how did you do in your conference that year. By that standard, like I said, he’s doing something that’s only been done 2x since 2008 and both Qb’s are in the NFL now. Top 4 in all 3 categories in your conference is rare, and remember, he’s already gone up against 23 top 25 defenses otherwise he’d be #1 in all 3 categories. Pretty elite.
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3 top 25 defenses, sorry, typo.
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Just curious: have you actually watched his play on the field?
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I have, I watched him set the all time NCAA record for accuracy. I was very impressed.
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One game does not make a quarterback elite.
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A lot of Qb’s in the long history of college football have played cupcakes, no one ever did what Lambert did against South Carolina. I don’t see why you discount it so quickly. It’s an astounding achievement.
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QB play in conference this year is crap, so who cares where the QB ranks in conference? Lambert’s play is no where close to those other guys. Not even close. You can’t just keep changing the goalposts because you don’t like the facts.
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It’s an excellent way to judge given a conference wide context, there are 14 teams and all 14 Qb’s would love to be in the top 4 in all 3 categories but only 4 are.
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I’m wrong, only Lambert and Kelly are top 4 in all 3 categories this year. And Kelly has faced 2 top 25 defenses to Lambert’s 3.
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Would you like to compare Chad Kelly and Lambert?
Lambert:
78th in yards per game (182.3)
70th in passing yards (1276, est. 2370 after 13 games)
55th in passing TDs (9, est. 17 after 13 games.)
31st in yards per attempt (8.2)
31st in completion percentage (64.1)
T-19th in fewest interceptions (2, est. 4 after 13 games – assuming the opposing DBs keep on dropping the ball)
32nd in passer rating (149.28)
Kelly:
11th in yards per game (319.1)
8th in passing yards (2234, est. 4148.3 after 13 games)
T-13th in passing TDs (16, est. 30 after 13 games.)
T-7th in yards per attempt (9.5)
T-24th in completion percentage (65.5)
Not in the top 100 in fewest interceptions (7, est. 13 after 13 games)
12th in passer rating (161.89)
Chad Kelly is blowing Lambert out of the water. You are crazy to even imply that they are comparable. No one cares about how people rank in conference in three arbitrary-chosen categories.
“Lambert is currently in the top 4 in the conference in all 3 categories he controls: accuracy, yards per attempt, and passer rating.”
And 10th in the conference in passing yards per game. 8th in the conference in passing yards. 7th in the conference in passing touchdowns. And by “top 4” in completion percentage, YPA, and QB rating, you mean “4th in all of those”. Which is quite the spin.
In 2012, Murray was 2nd in QB rating, 1st in YPA, and 4th in completion percentage. He was also 4th in passing yards per game, 1st in passing yards, and 1st in passing touchdowns (vs 4th, 4th, 4th, 10th ,8th, and 7th)
In 2008, Stafford was 2nd in QB rating, 2nd in YPA, and 2nd in completion percentage. And he was 1st in passing yards per game, 1st in passing yards, and 3rd in passing touchdowns. Again, vs 4th, 4th, 4th, 10th, 8th, and 7th).
You’re way off on this.
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Overall, Kelly is the best Qb in the conference in 2015. Lambert is No 2. Lambert is 1% less accurate than Kelly, and better in td to int rate. Not as good in ypa which tips the pass effic to Kelly too.
Both are 5-2 as starters in 2015.
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Meant Ole Miss, not Miss St. Ole Miss Qb Kelly had a great game against Alabama, no one else has in 2015.
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FYI for everybody here, a good strategy for convincing others, especially those who aren’t personally acquainted with you, is to not sound crazy or irrational. I love the passion but just bear in mind that though many crazy people are passionate it’s not an actual requirement.
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Exactly. I can’t figure why Dean doesn’t judge Pruitt by only the 2 losses. Why the double standard for Lambert? Lambert’s numbers in the 5 wins overall as an average are outstanding. And Lambert’s numbers in the 2 losses are better than AM’s in 2012 in his losses. I don’t get it.
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Oh and BTW, Legge spent a lot of time and Internet ink to say that he still likes Brice more than Grayson. His rant is ten times too long. He needs an editor.
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There’s just no substance to his position, that’s the issue I have, looking at the numbers, Ramsey hasn’t earned another chance. And after we all saw how Ramsey performed against elite competition in the Bama game, we all know he’s not the answer.
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Another way Lambert is more responsible for the wins than Pruitt is turnovers.
In the 5 wins, the defense ranks 9th in takeaways, but the offense ranks 5th in least turnovers.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/911/team/offense/split11/category12/sort03.html
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