The new redshirt rule — point, counterpoint

You know who thinks the new redshirt rule is no big thang?

Kirby Smart, that’s who.

“I think you guys are making way to big a deal about this redshirt rule, and here’s why. I don’t really have a philosophy. The guy can either play or he can’t. I think y’all think we sit around a table and go ‘well, we should wait and hold this guy because in four years . . . These kids these days, they can either play or they can’t play.”

Last year, five of the 25 players who made it to campus for Georgia’s 2017 signing class redshirted for the Bulldogs, although if the rule had been in effect last year, linebacker Jaden Hunter (who played in just one game), would be classified as a redshirt freshman instead of a sophomore this fall.

Holding players back who can help the team now doesn’t serve any purpose, according to Smart.

“You want to develop them, you want to grow them, but by four years they’re either waiting to leave, they’re graduating, getting out of there or they’re possibly transferring,” he said. “So, if they can help your team now, you play them now. You don’t sit there and say well, he’s going to better his fifth year if he redshirts. Think about redshirt seniors, and tell me how many redshirt seniors have really been effective, played a lot, played major roles on teams. They really don’t.”

Snarky response:  maybe that’s because of the ones who leave early for the NFL.  But I digress.

What’s fascinating to me is comparing Kirby’s point of view with Paul Johnson’s.

Johnson called it “very much needed” and “good on so many levels.” One reason Johnson gave was that, because Tech’s walk-on depth is limited because of the difficulty in gaining admission to the school, having all of the scholarship players available to play will give coaches more flexibility.

However, Johnson isn’t quite sure how it will play out.

“There’s going to be some strategy in when do you play them,” Johnson said at the ACC Kickoff on Wednesday. “I don’t think you just go throw ’em out and play ’em the first four games. You kind of have to watch and see.”

… One issue Johnson raised is getting freshmen ready to play. In the past, freshmen who were to be redshirted played on the scout team, preventing them from gaining experience practicing the team’s offensive or defensive schemes. A freshman who works solely with the scout team would have a difficult time playing with the offense or defense in an actual game. Special teams might be a different matter.

“That’s going to be a challenge to transition them to see who’s going to play,” Johnson said.

Johnson also was hopeful that, for such players, the chance of playing in games will improve morale.

“It’ll keep those guys more interested,” he said. “They feel like they’re more part of the team.”

When you’re a coaching have, like Kirby Smart, you’ve got the threat of competition to keep a deep roster motivated.  When you’re Georgia Tech, you now have the carrot of playing time to accomplish the same end with a thinner one, with more flexibility to evaluate your talent without handicapping the future.

For what it’s worth, I suspect Kirby is underselling his end of it.  For one thing, I believe the new rule is an enormous help for special teams management, an area that’s profoundly impacted by the kind of recruiting depth he’s brought in.  For another, even deep teams like Georgia can face in-season injury problems at a key position.  Also for what it’s worth, I expect that most coaches, if asked, would side with Paul Johnson on the new rule’s impact.

In any event, it’s going to be interesting to watch how this changes the college football landscape as it rolls out this season.

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UPDATE:  Here’s a good analogy from Andy Staples.

Rebuilding teams

These are the teams most likely to use the freshman class the way a Major League team uses the 40-man roster at the end of the season. Just like Clawson at Wake Forest in 2014, new coaches in programs that need major work don’t want to throw true freshmen to the wolves. But if they can replenish the roster before game nine with players who have spent the previous three months practicing, those teams have a chance to get better faster. Players will have some experience heading into the following year’s spring practice, and coaches will know how the young players responded in game action and what they need to improve upon most.

18 Comments

Filed under College Football, Georgia Football, Georgia Tech Football

18 responses to “The new redshirt rule — point, counterpoint

  1. Brandon

    Jane, you ignorant slut.

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  2. Uglydawg

    if you can play a kid in four games, it’s a big deal. He now has four years and four games of eligibility. It’s hard to type this, but CPJ gave a more thought out answer.
    Most likely, CKS just doesn’t have time to discuss this %#%!.

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  3. MGW

    If only because a true four year kid doesn’t lose a year for entering one or two games late or, say, because a QB’s helmet got knocked off and he has go in for one play, it’s a good thing.

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  4. Biggus Rickus

    Doesn’t Smart include in his reasoning the idea that really good players aren’t around for their fifth years because they go pro? That’s what I took from his “waiting to leave” line.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Kirby is recruiting players he believes can play now. Redshirting has its place in developing talent especially in the offensive line and, to a lesser extent, quarterback. Unless you are going to play some of these guys who are redshirt candidates against Austin Peay, MTSU or UMass (or maybe a home SEC game), most redshirt candidates aren’t going to see the field in Athens to take snaps away from a guy who is on the 2 or 3 deep right now. None of the guys who are redshirt candidates are going to travel because of the traveling roster limitations.

    OTOH, Fish Fry is pretty much saying he needs his signing class for depth purposes even if he plans to redshirt them.

    To a degree, while I love the concept, I think at the end of the year this will be a big deal about nothing.

    For those who bring up Knowshon Moreno as the poster child for this rule, CMR made a huge mistake in holding him out in 2006. He should have played from game 1.

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    • Otto

      Moreno goes pro after his 3rd year on campus if he red shirted or not. RBs will go pro as soon as they are eligible and are reasonably certain they will get drafted. Moreno should have earned playing time as he progressed in practice. Moreno did have Lumpkin, Brown, and Ware in front of him.

      Zeus plays if he is ready. If he is what we think he will be, he leaves after 3 years on campus assuming injuries do not drop his draft stock. Chubb and Michel are very special sticking around for a national title run and to build a new era in UGA football. Hopefully Zeus has that ring in the next 3 years.

      Yes Shockley was red shirted but if we had an instance where he was signed a year later, wouldn’t we like to have him another year? I believe DJ stays as he would not have been drafted high enough to leave. Further I believe Stafford could have used a redshirt or being brought in a more typical development progression which would cut down on some errors. Yes Stafford still turns pro early but I believe the red shirt year could have helped him develop better coaching out or never developing some bad habits.

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      • The only reason Zeus redshirts is if he either mentally or physically isn’t over the ACL. I imagine he’ll play (maybe vs Austin Peay but definitely by MTSU).

        The only reason Shockley redshirted was the postponement of the Houston game due to 9/11. CMR said they planned to use DJ in that game. Soon after he got hurt in practice (?) and they decided to sit him for the year.

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  6. It also sounds like playing everyone their first year is part of the process. If you can play well, it works out for everyone. If you aren’t that great, we aren’t carrying you for five years on scholarship.

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  7. The other Doug

    I think Smart is only telling half of the story. Sure, what he says applies to DBs, LBs, WRs, etc, but he definitely has a plan for Fields. If not then he isn’t the coach we think he is. I guarantee Saban has a few analysts running the scenarios and looking for an advantage.

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    • Biggus Rickus

      How so? Assuming Fromm starts this year and next and Fields come in and lights things up in 2020, he would have the same option to leave as a redshirt sophomore he would as a true junior. I don’t think there’s any way he would stay beyond 2021 either way if he’s as good as everybody thinks. Meanwhile, he’s one of two scholarship QBs on the roster this year and needs to be ready to go if something bad happens.

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  8. Dylan Dreyer's Booty

    Like a lot of NCAA rules, I may not know exactly what it provides, but I can see as being beneficial to coaches, sure, but also players in certain circumstances. It will be difficult to assess until the season goes by, but I can envision a lot of scenarios where it is good for coaches, but also players, so we’ll just have to see.

    Absolutely agree with those who say Kirby’s approach and use of the rule will be different from CPJ. Just two completely different situations. More interesting will be how it might be used by South Carolina, Florida and some other schools that aren’t exactly the Little Sisters of the Poor, but that have greater roster issues than UGA, Bama, etc.

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  9. DawgPhan

    Heard something interesting about the redshirt rule w/r/t the bama QB situation. If Hurts doesnt win the starting job then he could play in less than for games, red shirt, graduate, transfer and get to play 2 years immediately at another power 5 school.

    If he plays more than 4 games, he only has 1 year left.

    If he leaves now, he has 2 years to play, but would have to redshirt.

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    • I imagine Saban will find a way to get Hurts into 5 games and then restrict his ability to transfer as a graduate. That’s just how he rolls.

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      • Biggus Rickus

        On one level, I would feel bad for Hurts, but on another level, I’d find that hilarious.

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        • Could you imagine what could happen on the sideline if Tua got hurt for a series and Hurts (who had played in 4 previous games) tells Saban he isn’t going in to protect his redshirt as a grad transfer? Saban’s cyborg face would probably pop off like those in the old Westworld series. He may even go Woody Hayes on Hurts and be encouraged to retire for completely losing his cool. I would tune into PAWWL’s show on that Monday for Bammer reaction.

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