I’m not advocating for a wholesale adaptation of LSU’s offensive scheme right now, because it’s not practical and because I don’t presume to know if, even were it so, it would be the best choice for Georgia. I do believe, though, it’s worth checking out these tweets from David Wunderlich breaking down some plays showing how Joe Brady schemed his offense to get receivers open constantly because LSU’s offense before this season had been in a similar posture to Georgia’s and has made a significant leap this season with the change of approach.
See what you think from these:
Look at all the space created around the receivers for them to operate in.
And as a reminder, LSU and Georgia ranked eleventh and second, respectively, in passer rating in 2018. This season, it’s first and fourth, respectively. You can’t tell me the two teams’ talent isn’t comparable. The present difference is the tools the talent is being given to work with.
I’m not smug enough to suggest that this isn’t rocket science. Clearly this is complex stuff, or we’d see defenses routinely shutting down other teams’ passing games. But I am smug enough to suggest that a program with all the resources Georgia has available to it should be able to dial up a passing attack — even one based primarily on a manball approach — that’s more of a challenge for a 2-3 team to defend than we saw Saturday.
Get The Picture 
Let’s see how it does in Tuscaloosa.
I’ve got a feeling that LSU’s inability to run it well is going to cost them.
But we’ll see.
Alabama won’t show a lot of exotic blitzes like CTG but I assure you they will show a bunch of exotic coverages.
If they run up and down the field vs Alabama all day long, I’ll be willing to be “introspective” as someone around here called Ogeron this weekend.
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Eh, maybe.
Then again, compare the pass defense game logs for Florida and Alabama.
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Clemson averaged about a yard a rush into the 3rd quarter. They were up by 22 at that point.
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You left out that they ended up with 135 yards rushing. I suppose the omission was because it proved my point.
Could Alabama have come back had Clemson not improved on that average?
Yep.
Running the ball in the first q isn’t essential vs. Alabama. Running it if you have a lead in the 4th is life and fucking death.
Remember in 2012 when we had a 3rd and 1 with 8 to play?
We were up. We pick up that first down and 1 or two more and we have a natty. Instead we got stuffed and had to punt and they took the lead on a long pass to cooper.
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I left it out because almost all of it came in garbage time after Saban had waved the white flag. Alabama wasn’t coming from 22 down in the 3rd against an elite defense combined with an offense that was averaging 20 yards a play on 3rd down.
Did you even watch the game?
I like you. You make a ton of good points. This isn’t one of them. Georgia will have to be able to run on Alabama because it’s the foundation of the offense. But the teams that beat them over the last few years have mostly done it with explosive passing offenses with just enough running game.
Auburn 2017 best fits your blueprint, but 24 points isn’t going to beat this version of Alabama.
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If you go back and watch the teams that beat them ran the ball in the fourth. (The ole miss loss may be the exception but 5 turnovers will beat you.) We haven’t been able to run for shit late vs. Alabama.
Ohio State had a “dynamic passing offense”? With a third team true freshman? Seriously?
Meyer is a damn good ball coach. Dynamic passing offense is not part of the plan. Simple passing offense is more like it.
Clemson isn’t particularly dynamic in any sense other than the players running the plays. Ross is dynamic as are Lawrence and Watson. Not the plays.
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It’s not like there is a huge sample of Bama losses to go by, so we could probably do this all day and both be right within such a limited data set.
Clemson won that game without running the ball. They finished it running late, but it’s the only blowout game where Bama was making zero effort to win in the 4th. So, no, I am not going to credit Clemson’s running game for salting away a lead.
Alabama’s secondary is much improved this year. Their issue this year is two true freshman at MLB, who can get lost on coverage assignments. Georgia can exploit that. LSU will attack it too.
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There’s a sample size of getting close and not finishing.
We’ve seen three with us. Three times we’ve played them for a championship and in all three we had a lead in the 4th.
We lost because we couldn’t run the ball late.
It’s true that we passed to be in that position, as did the other teams that finished. The difference? They were able to run when they needed to.
The idea that the key is to forego physicality in a chase for some fools gold with no championship history, is quite stupid.
You can chase stats and getting close or you can chase titles. Winning titles requires moving people around not fooling them. If it were otherwise titles would come out if the big 12 and pac 12, but they don’t.
The most physical team continues to win, without exception, the sec and the natty.
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That’s not how I saw those games. We lost in 2012 because they destroyed our front 7 to the tune of 350 non-triple option rushing yards.
2017 was a mix of Wims going down crippling the offense a bit, Chaney running Chubb up the gut a bit too much and Sony not enough, and the secondary not being good enough in OT.
2018 I blame on trying to sit on a short lead and trying to run late too much. Fromm played great that game but the coaching staff tried to sit on a slim lead vs a team that was built to stop runs up the gut.
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It’s very frustrating to think how basic we have become. The #1 rule when you’re trying to out-talent your opponent is to get your playmakers the ball in space. Also Nauta leaving early feels like it hurt us more than we expected.
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Nauta, Holloman, and Hardman is proving to be a tough trio to replace.
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You ain’t shittin Cali….and, if I might point out the most productive receiver we have is playing with one shoulder. LSU’s offense works real good with the receivers they have….with our corps? Not so much.
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Part of the reason we are brutally young and thin at receiver is because some veterans left early without even big draft prospects because they have caught on to how inept this downfield passing game is. We were lucky to get Pickens on the other end but have missed others for the same reason. This is a big freaking problem.
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I thought our QB only could throw slants according to the esteemed members of DBU in Hogtown.
I sure would like to see some slant, dig and skinny post routes from the slot to work the middle of the field.
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I say this as someone who believes in his core that 80%+of success in college football is dependent on recruiting and player development aka not scheme: if you can’t scheme opportunities for your players when you have more 5 star players than the rest of the division you have no business being a college football coach.
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Sorry meant, more 5 stars than the rest of the division COMBINED
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Exactly. That talent at LSU must have gotten a lot better during one offseason if it’s all talent.
It’s obviously scheme. We have three 5* receivers with Cager out and none of them can run a route to get open? Even the 5* that was a freshman AA and set a PAC-12 record for receptions his first year? Bull. Use a modicum of imagination and get your playmakers in space.
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Not writing off the rest of the season by any means, but I’ve been in a group chat this week where our consensus is that this offseason will be more telling from a big-picture perspective on Kirby than anything that could happen the rest of the way. It’s just not realistic to make wholesale changes to an offensive philosophy mid-haul in the season so this is pretty much the offense we’re gonna ride or die with the rest of the way.
The ability to simply scheme a way to get 4 / 5 star athletes out in open space against lesser defenders is incredibly telling about Coley and his creativity, or lack thereof. For all the complaining we had about Chaney, he’s showed an ability to accomplish that simple task.
We’re hoping that Kirby is wise enough to acknowledge he made a mistake by prioritizing recruiting over scheme at the OC position and rectifies that in the offseason. If not, then Kirby probably isn’t the coach we all hoped he would be.
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I agree with that the big changes have to come in the off season, but we should see some better routes.
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Audit, I’m not convinced this lack of creativity is Coley. I do think this is all Kirby and his deep-seated dread of putting his defense in bad situations.
As others have discussed, having 3 game-breaking backs 2 years ago masked it. Also, maybe it was easier for Kirby the control freak to promote Coley, so he could “impose his will” on the offensive game plan.
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Why would Smart not want to run better routes? All of the ones above seem safe, so it has to be either we don’t have the personnel to execute them or they’re not in the playbook or coached to do it.
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I have no idea … that would be a great question for Seth to ask Kirby. They’re in the playbook. Do you remember the slant/arrow route Swift trucked that Florida safety with? On one of the other thread, I showed a perfect example of the RPO with Fromm hitting Mecole on a beautiful skinny post/seam route in the ‘17 SECCG.
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It’s Coley.
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I totally agree. Kirby was getting a bit defensive at the presser. He kept saying “we are thinking about Kentucky” as way to deflect questions. Hopefully one of the big donors can have a chat with him about what Ed O has done with the LSU offense. Maybe we can find a good young pro OC that can give our 5 stars a chance. I really see Bobo back if CSU cans him.
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Shawn Watson apparently hasn’t been as helpful to Coley with game planning as Jay Johnson was to Cheney. Jay Gruden and Matt Canada are both available. Bring them down as consultants and see if we can can get some juice. Get some new eyes on what the team has been already running this year. Not necessarily introducing new concepts or plays, just packaging them together and breaking some tendencies. We won’t change the playbook mid season, but damn… some self scouting and having a list of plays that beat man with inside leverage is going to be a big deal going forward.
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Canada does have a good track record in improving a formerly-coached by Chaney offense (his one year at Pitt they knocked off Clemson). Would be a great resource on ways to use motion to scheme WRs open/get defenses to declare blitzes pre-snap (though I wouldn’t want to go full-on motion-heavy on offense so he’s far from my first choice for a pass game coordinator or replacement OC next season).
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Whatever they come up with, I pray the will let the players play at some point. Kirby is over-coaching his team. We are never ready for the snap on defense because Kirby “sees” something. The illegal shift at end of regulation was totally on the sideline, trying to change another play at the last second.
At some point we need to let the Jimmy’s and Joe’s have their say.
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After it happening 3 games in a row, I’m worried that rust and/or lack of ability has Coley taking way to long to call plays (which also impacts running tempo.)
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20 / 30 seconds to get the play / formation in is ridiculous and tells me something is amiss.
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Just a WAG here, but we don’t have the receivers. What we do have is very, very young & talented, they will have to grow up quickly……Cager being injured certainly has not helped.
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I think they are running the routes called. It is just the routes that are beating us. Coley was not the greatest OC at Miami so I’m not sure why he got the job in the first place except that Kirby is doing the Saban next man up thing.
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Recruiting. Kirby promised Coley a coordinator position to keep him from leaving for another team, taking all that recruiting juice with him.
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Bull. Look how the freshmen receivers have thrived at Bama when given plays that get them open. Robertson caught 50 balls as a freshman AA at Cal. You mean to tell me he can’t get open now? And neither can Blaylock or Pickens? Not buying it.
LSU receivers didn’t suddenly become Jerry Rice over the off season. There’s a new offensive guy at LSU that actually has a little imagination.
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That third clip was the point in the game where I texted my buddy and said “I’m really envious of LSU’s offense”. Nobody had to do anything hard. WR ran a basic route. QB had an easy pitch and catch throw. And it worked like magic because of the design of the play. I guess that’s not as fun as trying to physically manhandle your opponent, even when you are failing.
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Didn’t our WR coach/passing Game Coordinator Hankton have a stint in the NFL? Shouldn’t he be able to tweak without wholesale changes mid season?
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Not sure it’s a scheme thing (look at what everybody has seen) the last third down how open Swift is and the third down play before end of regulation how open Cook is in the middle of the field. I hate to say it but I don’t Fromm was prepared for the game or he was pressing. Fromm goes through his reads and game is over, I am thinking there were lots of other plays with open receivers. That being said simple adjustments can be made during the off week to match what LSU is doing.
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A third possible explanation: he was pushed off his game because the pass protection was inconsistent.
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I’ll go with both along with poor game playing that did’t include quick drop/routes
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I agree, he probably didn’t feel like he could trust his protection which led to predetermined throws. The good news all is correctible, I think the offense was overlooking SC and if I am being honest as a fan I did too. When you are the top team the other teams have you circled, you can’t overlook anyone, I still believe UGA is good enough to win out. We get to see how good the coaching staff is moving forward.
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I’ll go with “he was pressing” but I also don’t know how his reads are supposed to progress. I assume it’s from deep ball to check-down. So if he looks deep and thinks the opening is there, he’s not going to keep scanning the field. By the time everyone sees Swift open over the middle, the ball is already in the air to the deep receiver.
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I saw that. Cook was standing with nobody within thirty yards of him..right in the middle of the field.
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I made a similar comment late in the day on your Observations post.
What I am seeing is the total commitment to the route-tree concept is what is failing. I assume this is on the OC.
Each of our receivers is running a route based on the show and then leverage attempt of the DB. With each receiver playing off of the DB, there is no opportunity to “get lost” when the D is playing man cover, which is pretty much all we are seeing now. SC played single safety man cover all game.
The route tree concept also raises the risk of of turnovers, as both QB and receiver need to “see” the same route. Example: The 2nd interception on the attempt to Landers. Landers as right boundary ran an inside curl and Fromm through an out route. On the play, the CB (Mukuamu) aligns press with outside leverage. Landers makes an out move off the line, and the CB shifts out from the press and maintains outside leverage. Landers curls in but Fromm throws the out. It looks to me like Landers ran the correct route. Either way, this is a very complex offense to run, especially with young receivers.
Predesigned combo routes and other schemes that exploit man coverage need to be worked into the game plan. LSU is doing a good job of this, as well as OSU and OK.
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Saltwater send Kirby your resume – what could it hurt?
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do we have an innovator on staff who could make that happen?
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What you are suggesting isn’t even a wholesale change. This is merely adding a few plays. Do it Kirby!!
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I was about to say … these type of plays have to be in the playbook. The question is whether 1) they are in the game plan and 2) if they are, call them.
Anyone who thinks Saturday was just a fail on the sidelines is kidding themselves just as those who believe the blame is on the guys between the lines.
It was a poorly designed game plan, terrible execution, and a couple of bad bounces. You have to try really hard to lose a game where your opponent NEVER runs a play during regulation from inside the red zone.
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If UGA ran LSU’s offense would that fix receivers dropping the ball, inaccurate throws, wrong routes, missed reads of wide open receivers or fumbling a snap?
Fields was going to be the catalyst to change the offense, sadly Mathis might not play again. Beck fits the Fromm style, so barring a transfer and some divine intervention with Mathis UGA is not going to change.
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If LSU can do what they are doing with Joe Burrow, we can do all of the same things with Jake Fromm. Jake had a bad day. The receivers couldn’t catch a cold on Saturday. Tight ends have disappeared again.
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A really bad day.
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Did Fromm really have a bad day or is that just his ceiling? I’d be inclined to say he had a bad day, but every single one of his losses has been almost a carbon copy of one another, defense finds a way to shut down the ground game and Fromm is forced to carry the team on his back. It’s not all his fault but i just have a hard time believing that it’s purely coincidence that we’ve lost every game where Fromm has had to make 30+ throws.
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Chicken and egg for me.
Are Jake’s limitations short circuiting the passing game when it has to go primary, or are the passing game’s limitations short circuiting Jake?
I honestly don’t know. Maybe some of both?
I do know you can’t get much better players then Kirby and Coley are working with.
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I kind of believe it may be a little of both. We’ve all seen Fromm make some beautiful throws, but as some have mentioned recently, and now that I think about, most seem to be into tight coverage with little to no YAC. We’ve seen plenty of inaccurate passes as well, but how many times have we seen him throw a dart into 2 or 3 defenders, “where only the receiver can catch it?” Is that all on him? Is that by design? It has to be by design, because it’s happening every game with us, and meantime you’ve got Bama’s receivers playing rock, paper, scissors to see which open one will get the pass.
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Losses to Date in the Fromm Era:
Auburn 2017 – Jake didn’t throw the ball 30x
Bama 2018 (CFPCG) – Jake threw 32x. I can’t blame that loss on Fromm.
LSU 2018 – Jake threw 34x. Didn’t play well.
Bama 2018 (SECCG) – Jake threw 39x. Once again, that loss is not on Jake. He was arguably the best offensive player on the field.
Texas 2019 – Jake threw 34x. Was not at his best but not awful either.
USCjr 2019 – Probably the worst game he has played in a Georgia uniform … no argument
Thoughts? I’ll still take our guy.
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At work so can’t do a full outlay of stats. With the exception of the 2018 seccg his completion % was below 60%if not 50%. In his best showing in a loss 2018 seccg he was 7 for 14 after the Ridley touchdown. His “bad days” seem to coincide exactly with when we need him to throw the ball a lot which leads me to believe it’s not a coincidence.
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Auburn – 46%
Bama – 50%
LSU – 47%
Bama – 64%
Texas – 59%
USCjr – 55%
Surprise … I think you can probably say most of the time when a team loses, the offensive player who touches the ball on every play probably doesn’t play his best.
I would probably say in everyone of those games (with the exception of the 2 Bama games), we had a lack of explosive plays in either the run game or the passing game.
I have a feeling there’s going to be a segment of the fan base who bangs on Jake now for not being undefeated as a starter and will long for him when he’s no longer on campus.
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meant to post this in the main thread…
Shawn Watson apparently hasn’t been as helpful to Coley with game planning as Jay Johnson was to Cheney and Coley. Jay Gruden and Matt Canada are both available. Bring them down as consultants and see if we can can get some juice. Get some new eyes on what the team has been already running this year. Not neccessarily introducing new concepts or plays, just packaging them together and breaking some tendencies. We won’t change the playbook mid season, but damn some self scouting and having a list of plays that beat man with inside leverage is going to be a big deal going forward.
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^^This is the best post of the day.
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Very good stuff…just seems like offensively our guys are trying to “chop wood” in a redwood forest with a butter knife. Not lack of effort or preparation…just don’t have the right tools.
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How about Plan B on Kirby waking up the team?
When things go bad in the first half for Kirby’s teams (Ole Miss 2016, Auburn 2017, LSU 2018, Texas 2018), things don’t usually get better in the 2nd half. The gameplan was poor, but no one made a play after halftime or during the overtime. No sacks, no turnovers, no special teams plays. How about a halftime reset and refocus Kirby? Copy that from Saban.
Kirby will fix the Xs and Os, but can he shake his team out of a in-game funk? Early returns aren’t promising and that’s a lot more concerning to me.
.
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We trailed notre dame at the half both times and trailed BIG to Oklahoma in the Rose Bowl… but oh wait, I see, those don’t exactly fit your narrative.
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He didn’t say always. He said usually. And that doesn’t just include losses, it also includes struggling but eeking out a win against teams you should dominate.
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We didn’t play bad in that first half of the Rose Bowl and we were within 14 at half, 7 after the first drive of 3rd Q.
There’s a difference between being behind to a good team at halftime and playing complete shit without improvement the whole game.
I guess that distinction dosen’t fit your narrative.
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Kirby’s team in 2017 was dominant in the 3rd quarter according to SP+. Best 3rd quarter numbers. Maybe best ratings for a quarter, period.
That doesn’t happen without halftime adjustments.
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Hutson Mason really gave Kirby a dig on Finebaum.
On Kirby’s indecision on a late fg attempt to win it:
‘Kirby what are we doing? Are we gonna kick it? Are we going to go for it?’ And he is waiting, and with about 25-20 seconds left (on the play clock), Coley then gets the OK green light for him and there’s a process,” Mason said. “The (graduate assistant) has to signal (the play) in, you know all this stuff that takes longer and longer. So I think the problem for me is again Kirby was unprepared in the moment and really kind of got caught with his pants down.”
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Hutson Mason commented on the game yesterday.
His observation was that Kirby became more involved with the offense in the 4th quarter.
He also said the illegal shift was caused by another late play coming from the sideline to the QB. Apparenlty not corrected. He seemed to think it was not on Coley but Kirby.
Do you know how Brady came to LSU? Read the late September issue of SI. Coach O say what had happened at LSU and was determined to change it.
In the 4th quarter the Bengals put the pedal to the metal, and their defense gets stronger.
Burrows is in a class by himself. Watch his release, his rotation, and how he comes back thru a pocket. Compare to Fromm.
LSU ran less than 50 plays against Gators. Compare that to Dawgs against SC. It appears their play pace is much quicker, and each player understands what they are to do and get it done.
LSU is a fun team to watch. They are as smooth and as hard as polished steel.
By the way is too often thought of as a passing game. Think again. It is run oriented.
Dawgs have the RBs but does it have enought of the other tools in the tool kit.
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Even HS teams routinely add plays and wrinkles during the season. Maybe one a week is good.. You can run stuff out of a familiar formation or even line everyone up in something new. It’s doable…one per week if a new formation..maybe two if ran out of the familiar formation
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I don’t care where you go, who you talk with, or what they do.
They are pissed at the offensive play Saturday.
Had one lady say Fromm had players open over the middle but he always throws to the sideline.
One asked was Kirby’s OC like Richt’s last, take him or leave the program…former pro assistant.
Told her no, but he came with the package by way of Miami and A&M HC. That convinced Kirby he was eltie because A&M and his former DC wanted him too.
She said you see how that A&M team is doing. Yes, I do, and they will probably light us up when they get here.
Tell you thing I learned, women in this state follow football!!
We are Georgia. It is always recruit more 5 *****s and wait til next year.
Now we have to worry about another OC failure, an up and coming Gator, UT, SC, UK AU teams, strict control of coaches from the AD office, and the new transfer portal.
It is called the Georgia way. They always seem to find comfort in failure.
Or lately another October blow out. But we are currenlty winning at 5-3 in last 8 games. Comfort, for awhile…wait til next year when we get the same OC and more 5 stars and what sports writers call cup cake games [from our view we have none now]
Best of all no noon kick off and your happy hour can start when CBS starts their game coverage. Hit it hard, 3 hours to get misery under control.
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What really troubles me is the following statistic: 5-3 over the last 8 games. Wins in last 8: Vanderbilt, Murray State, Arkansas State, Notre Dame, Tennessee. The only quality win in that group is ND and that was closer than the score indicates. Losses: Alabama, Texas and South Carolina. Basically the Dawgs played 4 real football teams during that stretch and lost to 3 of them—and almost lost to the 4th. This from a team that is supposed to win the SECE, the SEC Championship and contend for a natty?
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Over the last 8 is classic cherry-picking … why is 8 the number that tells us anything about the direction of the program unless you have an agenda that can’t be supported any other way? We’re 29-6 since Kirby’s first year.
I can use the “We’re 0-1 since the Tennessee game! The sky is falling!”
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I’m smug enough. Blaylock played on one of five offensive snaps Saturday. It really ain’t rocket science. Unfortunately this game was handicapped sufficiently during the week when we implemented the game plan. Game day was just the unrolling.
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Senator you would have to actually run different routes than out routes every play. Rub routes, crossing patterns, stop and goes….and the WR actually run smart routes.
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Our routes and pass plays are so simple and easy to scheme against. I really don’t know, though, if our Wrs just aren’t that good or our OC and WR coaches aren’t that good. It’s a chicken or the egg thing but I felt our offensive scheme was gonna hurt us after ND.
We keep everything in front of the opposing D and even telegraph plays. Muschamp knew what play we were running almost the entire game. Kirby should see that, too, being a former DC! It seems this goes back to impose your will.
I’ve always believed in do what works until they stop you but what about when they’ve mostly stopped you and you’re still run off guard, run off guard, pass well into OT?? We’re down 7 at half, give up 3 points in a half and 2 OTs and still lose. What the hell are we doing? I belive Muschamp is a great D coach and SC has some talent but come on!
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You don’t have to be in a pass heavy offensive scheme to draw up these types of pass plays. They’ll work in our offense just as well as they do at LSU or Alabama or Ohio State or Clemson or…you pick one.
Coley appears, at least to the average, yet somewhat knowledgeable fan that he is either incapable or unwilling to diversify UGA’s offensive playbook to include plays like these. Who knows, maybe he’s afraid that he will incur the wrath of CKS by doing so, thereby disrupting the HBC’s seemingly compulsive insistence to run the ball first and often, even late in a game in which we are trailing.
Also, running it up the gut for no gain on first or second down in the same scenario is stupid, and detrimental to the success of the team.
I’ve never coached a D-1 offense, but I know enough about this game we all love to know that when something fails repeatedly, you have to be willing to try something different, attack an opposing team’s defense from a different angle…you have to come at them with something they are not expecting.
Coley’s approach thus far has been extremely predictable, and we are not going to win many future close battles if we don’t adapt.
“Balanced” offenses don’t have to be defined by the number of plays called for either a run or a pass. If a team tallies 600 yards of total offense while rushing for 300 yards and passing for 300 yards, regardless of how many plays it took to achieve this totals… I mean…that seems balanced to me.
How you got to that number, or how many times you ran it or threw it, is not really important as long as you record a W, right?
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