All’s well that ends well.

Good question in this week’s Andy Staples’ mailbag ($$):

What tends to be more successful for major programs when they hire head coaches: the hot Group of 5 coach or the hot Power 5 coordinator? Seems like a lot of the G5 guys are “builders,” which often isn’t needed at a blueblood program, while the coordinators are more “salesmen,” having already gone through the grind of recruiting to a major program.

Kind of takes me back to the “decision” facing Greg McGarity after he canned Richt.  (The quote marks are, I think, understandable, to say the least.)  The hire was great; the process, not so much.  But I digress, sort of.

Andy went back and did some useful math to come up with an answer.  “I examined all the coaches hired by power conference programs* from 2005-19 to see if we can glean anything from empirical data.”  Here’s what he came up with:

There were 153 such hires in that 15-year period, but obviously, not all of the coaches getting hired fell into either of those categories… Of the hires, 43 were coaches whose achievements as a non-power conference FBS head coach won them the power conference head-coaching job. Meanwhile, there were 52 assistants hired as power conference head coaches…

So who fared better? The assistants had the edge. They had a median win percentage of .528 in their power conference head coaching jobs, while the median win percentage of the non-power conference head coaches was .500.

Not so fast, though.

But context matters. I also calculated the median win percentages of the assistant group for the coaches who came in after a firing instead of after a predecessor resigning (not because of losing), retiring or leaving for a better job… Taking away the assistants who took over mostly stable situations left 26 coaches, and their median win percentage dropped to .453. Meanwhile, the 35 Group of 5 head coaches who took over a power conference program after a firing had a median win percentage of .515.

He doesn’t count Kirby Smart as one of the assistants who came into a stable situation, which makes Smart’s performance well above average in that regard.

There’s one other group in that 153 Staples takes into account.

Of those 153 hires, 41 were hired primarily because of what they’d done previously as power conference head coaches. This group includes South Carolina-vintage Steve Spurrier, Alabama-era Nick Saban, Ohio State-era Meyer, Bill Snyder 2.0 at Kansas State, Michigan-era Jim Harbaugh and Penn State-era James Franklin. That group had the highest median win percentage at .539.

In other words, of all the options facing Butts-Mehre post-Richt, the road taken was the statistically riskiest.  It may have been something of a gamble for Georgia to hire Smart, but it paid off in spades.  We all wanted McGarity to be good with his hiring/firing, but I’ll certainly take lucky in this instance.

64 Comments

Filed under Georgia Football, Stats Geek!

64 responses to “All’s well that ends well.

  1. Gaskilldawg

    McGarity is lucky that he had no choice in the hire.

    Liked by 13 people

    • 79dawg

      We are lucky McGarity had no choice in the hire….

      Liked by 18 people

    • If McGarity had made the hire, our buyout money would be at The Creek Club right now.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Gaskilldawg

        I don’t think McGarity would have hired MuLLLLLLLen in December 2015. Richt had a lot of support in the fan base and McGarity justified the firing on the basis that Richt had not played for a NC and likely wouldn’t. McGarity knew it would have created a firestorm if he fired Richt for not sniffing a NC and replaced him with a guy who never even sniffed a division championship.
        He would have looked for a guy who was available and had won one.

        Like

        • Not sure I agree with that but can understand the point of view. Many of us (myself included) questioned why we hired a career assistant over a proven head coach (I didn’t want MuLLLLet).

          Like

  2. dawgtired7

    I agree with the ‘lucky’ take. I didn’t like the choice when it happened but have no problem eating the crow now. I feel we were ‘lucky’ with CMR as well.
    I am curious to know if the people behind the CKS push had done their homework, or did they just want someone in the shadow of the greatest dynasty of our time. If it is the later, we certainly got lucky. I wonder if Smart had not come if they would have just went after another Saban assistant?

    Liked by 1 person

  3. rigger92

    I can’t wait to see what Kelly does at LSU.

    Who is Alabamia scouting for when Saban hangs his hat?

    CKS could retire right now and provide for his family indefinitely, what would Josh do?

    There’s not enough national media attention paid to the stability of our program from a HC perspective, especially with the goings on at AU right now. How do we have ALL living former HC’s still residing in Athens? That’s nuts.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Down Island Way

      That question of “what would Josh do” is a multi pronged question, UGA hoops coach (men), UGA tennis (mens/womens) both of these coaches are well respected, recruit well, yet maybe looking to retire soon, UGA swim/dive (mens/womens) coach has been around the block very successfully, he maybe on the road of retirement, UGA GymDawgs probably requires assessment as well as UGA Diamond Dawgs given the strength of sec baseball…True, one never knows what the future holds, CKS took 1.5 to 2.5 years to establish the “process”, UGA football has grown up as CKS has become more comfortable as the face of UGA football, fan support and the most important, CKS is booster friendly…GO DAWGS!

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Granthams Replacement

    The difference in .500 and .539 is minuscule. Both will get a coach fired in 1-3 seasons.

    Liked by 1 person

    • biggusrickus

      I expect if someone truly did a study covering, say, 20 years and controlling for all of the variables involved, they’d find that there is basically no difference between assistants and mid-major coaches. Coaches with previous head coaching jobs at major programs would probably show slightly better.

      Liked by 1 person

      • W Cobb Dawg

        Agree. A lot of P5 assistants take HC jobs at lower levels with the intent of working their way back up the ladder as a P5 HC. It’s not as if the lower level schools are hiring HCs out of high schools.

        Like

    • Someone has to take the Ls, so I find something like this analysis by Staples as something dumb. Let’s look at the “best” coaches (according to 24/7) in the game right now:

      Saban – has THE all-around resume. Career assistant in the NFL who did well at Toledo and used that to move up to Sparty. Exceeded expectations there and leveraged that to LSU to make it possible to take an NFL head coaching job. Parlayed the LSU natty and the NFL experience into a dynasty.

      Kirby Smart – career assistant and great coordinator under the best coach of his era and waited for the job he wanted (remember he had been courted by others before and during 2015). Has absolutely blown it up. Sounds sort of like the guy he replaced.

      Dabo Swinney – interim turned into head coach. Kept building the program until he turned it into a monster. Not a great football strategy guy but was an excellent recruiter.

      Lincoln Riley – started on 3rd base and thought he hit a triple by inheriting a program with great talent. We’ll see how good he really is now when he has to rebuild a program.

      Jimbo Fisher – won a natty and ran same program into the ground and got out while the getting was good. Either he’ll win another one or get a big buyout in the next 3-5 years.

      Jim Harbaugh – the Nick Saban model with limited success. He didn’t parlay his Super Bowl experience into becoming the Midwest’s Alabama.

      Brian Kelly – built at a mid-major and was successful at a blue blood. We’ll find out if he has the chops now that he’s in the toughest neighborhood in the sport.

      Ryan Day – see Lincoln Riley regarding how he got there. Has won his league a bunch and dominated his rival. Can he get over the CFP hump?

      Luke Fickell – has built a Go5 monster in Cincinnati. Learned under some great coaches and now that Cincy is going to the Big 12 could make a step up.

      Dave Aranda – career assistant and excellent coordinator. Young and has everything in front of him … if he were in Austin instead of Waco, would he be the next Kirby?

      If I were hiring a head coach, the background doesn’t matter but this does:

      Liked by 13 people

      • jcdawg83

        Excellent work, you pretty well nailed every one. Dabo is going to get to show whether or not he is really a good coach this season, both coordinators left. I have always thought he was a good recruiter but very average as a coach.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Texas Dawg

        After the obvious 1 and 2, I think Luke Fickell and Dave Aranda are the best coaches on that list. They do more with less than the others. Aranda at Texas or Fickell at OSU would instantly elevate those programs (especially Aranda).

        Liked by 1 person

        • Throw Kyle Whittingham in there with Aranda and Fickell. I think he’s extremely underrated.

          We’re going to see with Fickell. He has been able to out-talent his schedule, but you have to like what you see so far. I love Dave Aranda. I would suggest he was as responsible for LSU’s national title as Joe Brady.

          Liked by 3 people

          • Texas Dawg

            I forgot about Whittingham. After all the turmoil that was Utah football this past year, that had to be one of the all-time coaching jobs.
            On the other hand, Jimbo has proven he can do less with more than any other coach in the game today.

            Liked by 3 people

      • Corch Irvin Meyers, Former Jags Corch (2021)

        Man, again, the revisionist history about Jimbo Fisher at FSU is just insane at this point. He rebuilt a thoroughly mediocre FSU program into a national title winner, and he didn’t “run it into the ground.” He left because the FSU Booster Club, who holds the purse strings for the FSU Athletic Association, would not open those purse strings to improve and or refurbish their facilities.

        Liked by 2 people

        • MGW

          People just really really want to believe there isn’t another 500 pound gorilla in the SEC room.

          Everyone in college football outside of Tallahassee knew they had one of the best coaches in the country, and he called them out on it. The boosters were dumb enough to think they could try to crack the whip with some “you better win now or you’re on the hot seat“ trash and he said no thanks. I don’t know when boosters will finally learn that tactic kneecaps recruiting so you might as well just either go ahead and fire him or pretend you think he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. He understood that sticking around under those circumstances meant that his failure would become a self fulfilling prophecy. I mean have you ever seen a top-three class get pulled in by a coach who is publicly on the hot seat?

          Liked by 2 people

          • Russ

            So what’s holding him back at A&M? It’s not money, it’s not support, it’s not facilities. What else is left?

            Like

            • Corch Irvin Meyers, Former Jags Corch (2021)

              He’s been there a few years, he had one good year, and he’s beaten Bama, the first ever former assistant to ever do it, and he did it with his back-up QB.

              Right now, he’s lining-up his recruiting classes, much like Kirby had to do. So far, he’s had a year where his offense was way better than his defense and then a year where his defense was way better than his offense (sound familiar)?

              After this recruiting class, which is similar to Kirby’s 2018 class, he’s very likely to win a national title in the next 4 years.

              Like

        • I don’t think he’s a great coach now. Yes, he left the cupboard bare in Tallahassee.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Corch Irvin Meyers, Former Jags Corch (2021)

            Except that’s not how it happened. He didn’t “leave the cupboard bare” in Tally. He wasn’t given the resources to recruit like Georgia, Bama, Clemson, LSU, Tosu etc. have, nor was he given the resources to build new facilities or upgrade/refurbish the facilities he had. So yeah, the cupboard wasn’t where it could be, but the guy shopped for the groceries he could afford, which unfortunately wasn’t as good as where the others could shop. So he left, and you see what he’s done at TAMU, each class better than the last, culminating in the greatest recruiting class of all time.

            Like I said… revisionist history. Fisher is a good coach and a good recruiter. He rebuilt FSU as best he could, and even with one hand tied behind his back he still won a National Title. Think about how difficult that was to do. Richt couldn’t do it here at Georgia.

            You don’t have to like him, but respect his ability, because he’s right up there with Saban, Dabo, and Kirby.

            Like

            • Russ

              Not sure if you’re revising history or we are. He’s had good recruiting classes (still behind Georgia, Bama and LSU) but he’s never won more than 9 games in a season over the four years he’s been there. So he doesn’t appear to develop that talent. And it’s not like he’s just losing to Bama. He has some WTF losses every year. The COVID year was a good one for sure, but it seems to me without a crab-leg stealing rapist for QB, he’s a decent but not elite coach.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Corch Irvin Meyers, Former Jags Corch (2021)

                Imagine what Kirby’s record would be his first few years if Georgia was in the SEC West. It’s weird how some people continually tie themselves into knots trying to “prove” Jimbo Fisher isn’t a good coach.

                Kinda like how we all hated it for years while others did the same to Kirby. Is the irony not lost on you?

                Like

                • dawgphan34

                  fandom….everything sucks that isnt my team. No coach is good, except my coach, every QB is a system QB, except my QB who is amazingly talented and was amazingly developed by my coach. Who is the only good one.

                  Like

                • boz864

                  You’re making a good point, and I’ll add that maybe I just don’t like him because of the Jameis Winston situation he was dealt… and how they won a NC with such a person… I just have a hard time with all the smoke around him, especially when it was on the heels of Cam. All that clouds my judgement of Jimbo, but time will tell, and I agree that there parallels to CKS.

                  Like

  5. Hogbody Spradlin

    You call that a process? 😉
    That was the most pre-determined decision I’ve seen since Hitler posed dead bodies on the German side of the Polish border.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. theotherdoug

    He needs to look at coaches promoted after the HC leaves. Dabo, Riley, and Coach O are obvious examples. Maybe also include prior coaching experience at the school. Kirby, Mullen, and Beamer are in that group. Finally, what about total outsiders like Harsin?

    Like

  7. chopdawg

    I don’t agree that Kirby didn’t come into a stable situation.

    Liked by 3 people

    • The Truth

      There was some instability — I think Pruitt’s cage-rattling caused some even if he did get the ball rolling on facilities — but I don’t think there’s a coach alive who wouldn’t want to walk into his first meeting with his new team and see Roquan, Lorenzo, Sony, and Nick sitting there.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Dylan Dreyer's Booty

      Exactly. In 2017, he took a bunch of Richt’s players and made it to Championship game. What’s unstable about that? Sure, there were some disgruntled fans (especially after a couple of Florida games), but for 90% of his seasons here, Richt had a winning record (I’m guessing, so feel free to check).

      Liked by 2 people

      • Texas Dawg

        Richt and Kirby are like Moses and Joshua. Richt led us out of mediocrity and restored the program but was not able to cross over into the promised land. Kirby picked up the mantle and finished the journey. For those of you who forget what UGA football had become before CMR arrived, it was not pretty. He restored us to prominence but was not able to get over the hump. It happens a lot. Tony Dungee took Tampa Bay when they were the worst franchise in professional football and turned them into a powerhouse. He could not get over that over that final hump. Along comes Chucky and the Bucs win the SB. While he got them over the hump, it never would have happened w/o the foundation laid by Dungee. Same for Kirby. He took the foundation laid by CMR and got them over the hump. Could he have done it from scratch? Maybe, but it would have taken a lot longer had he not had a great foundation to build on. The 1st NC game appearance was primarily CMR players.

        Liked by 9 people

      • Gaskilldawg

        93.3% to be precise.

        Like

    • MGW

      This was no rebuilding job. The administration and a lot of fans just thought Richt had hit his ceiling, but they weren’t gonna give him the resources to see if that would out help either.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Kirby was given 5 years to get the job done and just barely sneaked in under the wire. Step it up bro!

    Liked by 3 people

    • RangerRuss

      If Kirby doesn’t win the SECCG Dec 3? They need to fire his sorry ass on Dec 4. One SEC championship in six years. Hell, the Dawgs got that many National Championships in the same time period. This aggression will not stand, man.

      Liked by 6 people

  9. charlottedawg

    I was ready to move on from richt because I believed he was never going to be a real contender to win the sec much less national championship going forward. I did recognize that moving on would be a gamble and there was a very real possibility of replacing richt with someone much worse. Kirby has been a home run hire but we were extremely lucky. Statistically at the time of his hiring there was as good a chance that he would be muschamp 2.0 as it was that he would turn into what he is now.

    Liked by 4 people

  10. Dylan Dreyer's Booty

    “He doesn’t count Kirby Smart as one of the assistants who came into a stable situation…”

    Well, shit, if you are going to rig the stats to get the outcome you want, then sure. Was Kirby a lucky hire? Every hire is lucky if you consider making the CFP the standard because there aren’t many that do that, and you just have to read ee’s post above to realize it. The process was fine; hire a firm to do a search and what happens is you don’t have a coach by signing day, and you end up with Tom Herman. Or worse.

    I don’t think Alabama hired Saban because a search firm found him for them, nor do I think UF hired Urban for the same reason. It may not work out, but A&M didn’t hire Jimbo because of a search.

    Like

  11. thenewandimprovedtronan

    At the time, I thought Kirby was a smart hire. He was bright and eager and had made a very good name for himself at a benchmark program that had dominating defenses. In other words, he was the safest choice I could imagine UGA or anybody making if they went after a coordinator (or pretty much any head coach). My mistake was thinking Kirby could get us into the top five immediately. It took him two years (though I really should have expected the rollercoaster that was the 2016 season from a first-time, first-year head coach who was overhauling an entire program).

    Liked by 1 person

    • Biggen

      I knew Kirby would be the dude after one of his 1st press conferences when he got the job. He started talking about recruiting. He said something to the effect of how poor the trenches were currently and how bad the drop off was after the starting 22.

      Wish I could find that presser. I thought at the time “wow”. This guy wants to go after it.

      Like

  12. godawgs1701

    The silver lining to the crushing loss in 2017 is that Greg McGarity doesn’t get to wear one of Kirby Smart’s national championship rings.

    Liked by 10 people

  13. Russ

    Well, obviously the process worked out for us, but as I mentioned last week, there was probably a close to equal chance we could have wound up like Auburn right now. With the liquor barons running Butts-Mehre and a spineless AD, we were lucky it turned out like it did for us.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Russ

      I’m still enjoying the shit-show out of Auburn though.

      Liked by 5 people

    • Dawg19

      Russ, you beat me to it.

      Unlike Auburn, our boosters may have saved us.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Dylan Dreyer's Booty

      So were the boosters the ones who wanted to hire Harsin? I really don’t know because I dgas about Auburn so I never looked into it. It feels like the result of advice from a search firm, though.

      Like

      • Russ

        Like you, I DGAS but from what I gather, the boosters wanted Kevin Steele. The AD wanted to flex and got Harsin. Harsin wanted to be an asshole, which works until you don’t win. Five game losing streak ensued and the boosters started manufacturing stories about his assistant.

        Liked by 1 person

  14. JoeDashDawg

    From the comments of Andy Staples’ article I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacardi_Bowl

    Of particular interest was this version of the Bacardi Bowl:
    “The 1912 Bacardi Bowl was scheduled as a two-game series in Havana featuring the Florida Gators against squads from two different Cuban athletic clubs.[5] It was Florida’s first experience with postseason football.

    The first game was held on Christmas Day, and the Gators defeated the Vedado Athletic Club 28–0.[3] The second game, which pitted the Gators against the Cuban Athletic Club of Havana a few days later, was never finished. Florida head coach George E. Pyle realized during the first quarter that the game was being officiated using college football’s pre-1906 rules, and while discussing this issue with the officials, he discovered that the head referee was the former coach of his opponent.[6] Feeling that playing under those conditions was neither fair nor safe, Pyle pulled his team off the field and was promptly arrested for violating a Cuban law prohibiting a game’s suspension after spectators’ money had been collected.[7] A trial was scheduled and Pyle was released on bail that evening, at which point he and the Gators quickly boarded a steamship for Tampa, an escape which caused the coach to be branded a “fugitive from justice” by Cuban authorities.”

    Liked by 1 person

    • spur21

      Interesting Joe – thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Russ

      Interesting. So they’ve been breaking the law since the beginning of their program, which is what I’d expect.

      Liked by 1 person

      • RangerRuss

        Running just doesn’t set well with me. In the Bacardi Bowl instance, that early in the game, I’m thinking the Paul Crewe solution would work best. Maybe have a reserve CB blindside the corrupt ref with the promise of the same from the starting DT if he didn’t knock that shit off.
        In the case of Al Ford and Penn Wagers and the contest is mostly decided? Wall-to-wall counseling is the order of the day. Those cheating bastages should’ve tasted the concrete left and right the entire way out the stadium. There should be ramifications and repercussions for cheating by officials and that shit would come to a screeching halt.

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  15. dawgphan34

    My guess is that coaches who take over programs that also significantly increase their financial commitment to football tend to do pretty well. Regardless of the last position you held.

    The Audible had an interesting conversation about how many coaches could win a national title at UGA right now. Feldman hasnt always been a supporter of Smart, but it was an interesting conversation.

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  16. Matthew McKinney

    Not sure the median is the best measure. Don’t you want to let the extreme examples influence the result more? Median almost completely removes the disproportionate effect of the best and the worst on the inference.

    Like