Nick Saban, post come-to-Jesus:
Kirbs, you listening?
“The game is different now. People score fast.”
Filed under Nick Saban Rules, Strategery And Mechanics
- Bloviation for the Dawgnation
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Quote Of The Day
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“We remember the Sugar Bowl, I think it my junior year of high school, we let Alabama beat us twice,” Brinson said of a team that also lost to the Crimson Tide in the SEC Championship game. “We’re not letting Alabama beat us twice. In the Sugar Bowl in 2018, they… thought they should have been in the playoffs and lost to Texas.” -- AB-H, 12/27/23
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Get The Picture · Bloviation for the Dawgnation
Get The Picture 
Lane was hired 8 days after this game:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=340020333
They also had this game on the regular season 2013 schedule:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=332570245
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Derek Henry getting only 8 carries is really damned criminal. And I thought the lack of carries Knowshon’s lack of carries vs Sakerlina in 2007 was bad.
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Kirbs already changed. He got caught with no WRs, then no QB. He’s all good for 2021.
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I sense a bit of well-deserved snark here, GR. Getting caught with no WRs one year and no QB another is an infraction at West Point or Annapolis. At UGA it’s a class-A felony.
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When we stop running on first down and second down into stacked boxes as much as we have to the detriment of the team, even last year, I’ll believe Kirby has changed. Last year we still ran the ball way too much on first and second down, into the teeth of defenses that expected us to run, and we did it mostly from the shotgun without the benefit of a lead blocker and that’s just fucking stupid. Saban just said as much. I need to see real change before believing it will happen.
Until then, hiring Monken and the WR recruiting… it’s all window dressing.
It’s all about stopping this ridiculous “impose your will” bullshit when you simply don’t have the numbers. And the hilarious thing is, if we threw the ball more on first and second down, then the run would be there when we wanted it to be because the defenses would respect the pass. Bama still ran a lot. Not 2010 Bama a lot, but they still ran when they wanted to, almost at will, because they stuck with the pass and teams had to respect the pass first.
Balance isn’t 50-50 run-pass. Balance is getting the ball into the hands of your playmakers who can make plays in space where the defense isn’t, not forcing the run when it isn’t there. So that means if there is eight men in the box, YOU THROW THE FUCKING FOOTBALL!
Remember last year when Kirby said JTD didn’t have the green light on most plays to “pull the ball” because he would “do it every time”? THAT is the kind of stupid caveman thinking that has to change in Athens if we’re going to win a National Title, and that’s just the truth.
I’m hopeful this year it can change, that Kirby can finally let go of this outmoded caveman thinking. I know it doesn’t seem that way, but I am. I’m hopeful, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand the same old shit could continue. Being in the Marine Corps taught me: Hope for the best, expect the worst.
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https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/georgia-football/kirby-smart-clarifies-how-much-autonomy-todd-monken-has-in-making-personnel-game-plan-decisions/
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That doesn’t mean jack shit when the actual data comes out. Last year showed we still ran the ball too much on first and second down.
We know Monken is an adaptable guy who’s ran every kind of offense under the sun, and he’s not the kind of guy who, when left to his own devices, is going to force the run when it isn’t there. You know who has been in favor of forcing the run when it isn’t there to “impose our will”?
I’ll believe Kirby has changed when Georgia’s offense has truly changed. The truth will out, and the data will point the way.
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Why would Todd allow Kirby to lie?
Why would Kirby lie?
Why doesn’t Kirby make the same/similar statements about his role on defense?
Is it possible that Monken does make his own decisions and you just don’t like them?
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I know you won’t hear it, but I’ll throw this out there.
‘17 – Chubb/Michel/Roquan. Our team identity was built around these three and probably others I don’t know about. This is the abhorrent year.
‘18 – Holyfield/Swift/Fromm. Team built for the run first but had an experienced QB riding high on the confidence meter. Fromm just didn’t have the ability or coaching to perform well enough to play wide open. Was a good year though.
‘19 – Coley. I don’t know any better than anyone else though I would bet that behind closed doors CKS was yelling “our offense sucks”.
‘20 – Well, just play with ya got.
I am comfortable with the sentiment that this upcoming season will be the first time CKS’ vision has the potential to see the field. No, I don’t know his vision. I am comfortable with the notion that his vision would be just like Dabo and Saban have built.
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Chicken or the egg. You say that’s who we had, I say that’s who we had because that’s what Kirby wanted to do so that’s who he recruited and that’s who he hired (Chaney & Coley) to run the ball and “impose our will.”
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Other than the fact he didn’t recruit Chubb, Michel or Roquan, it’s exactly the same.
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Dang “Corch”…….that’s depressing. But glad you are still trying to keep Kirby honest. Stay on the mutha & keep GATA. Continue to fight the good fight.
I mean, other than you….who would you recommend, who we gonna get?
We all need some hope…
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LOL. I’ll give this to you: Your obsession with me runs deep. It’s like having my own little stalker.
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just giving you credit. You are laser focused on Kirby……the offseason, spring training, fall camp, regular season, “cruiting” and etc – 24/7.
I think it is just precious…..the man can never get a rest with you keeping him honest/critiquing him.
If he would just listen, we would finally get to the mountain top.
Keep it up “Corch”……it’s appreciated by some. The rest just don’t see or appreciate your work/effort.
GO DAWGS!!……right??
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LOL. You’re precious, Greggie. Your continuing obsession with me is pretty creepy though.
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If Saban had a come to Jesus moment when Lane joined the staff, does that make Lane John the Baptist?
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Wouldn’t that make Saban John and Lane Jesus? Because Lane showed Saban the way, but Lane had to be baptized by Saban in order to emerge back into the world (of coaching)?
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Makes complete sense that Saban hired Lane and then later asked him how he would go about doing his job.
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Little nicky is SATAN….
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Thanks for pointing that out, DIW. All that blaspheming up in hyere and they wonder why The Lord’s wrath keeps raining upon the Dawgs…
😉
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Pretty sure Kirby was not expecting to have SB as his staring QB last season.
Man-ball is dead and Kirby knows it too.
The dam horse is dead too stopping beating it. We have some fans who are more into mode of to hell with the dead mule just load the dam wagon.
Part of me almost hopes we open at Clemson first play smash into a loaded box just to hear the screaming I told you so. I don’t think for a minute Kirby would disagree with what Saban says on that clip.
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There is an art too it. Smashing your opponent in the face for short yardage can lead to dominating the 2nd half, and we know good and well Kirby does that part. But it doesnt work against a Bama, who is also deep and can smash you back. Thats the weakness on our side.
Kirby wanted to change the culture in 2016, he knew from the cold rainy day from hell that our program was lacking strength and a culture of dominance. It kinda sucked in 2016, but it was good coaching for long term. It paid off in 2017. But then it turned into IZ Cooley, and not letting the reigns off of QBs.
But also, smashing a lesser opponent doesnt work out your team, and I feel thats a big part of what we miss out on. Sure, we ran all over directional U, or GT, or Vandy, but then in a week or 2, when we need to go all out, we haven’t really practiced it, and we as fans feel it, like “can we start throwing and scoring big?”
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There it is, Chuck. I’d like to see the Dawgs approach every series of every game as if there was six minutes left in the NC game and they were down by three scores. Light ’em the fuck up!
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Chuck & Russ,
Totally agree guys!
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Can we please redefine manball to dominating your opponent regardless of whether you run or pass? Bama plays manball because their lines of scrimmage are generally better than yours. I wouldn’t call Bama’s offense a finesse-based offense because they can line up and knock your @$$ off the ball when they need to.
I go back to 2012 when Missouri was the trendy pick to beat us in their first SEC game. No SEC team has seen what a Big 12 team can do … their defensive tackle blabbered about “old man football.” At the end of the woodshed job we put on them that night, Christian Robinson (I think) held up a whiteboard with “Grown man football” written on it.
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It’s not 2012 though, man. Now you do have to play offense more like the Big 12 teams do, which you better believe is what Bama and Clemson do, to win a National Title. Saban just said it. You can’t run the ball just to run the ball. You can’t run the ball into stacked boxes simply because your offensive line is bigger. It doesn’t matter. The game isn’t played that way anymore because if you do that and you get just one stalled drive or God forbid a three-and-out, then that other team is going to burn down the field in less than 2 minutes and score on your defense. That’s been our problem against equal or better teams ever since Kirby got here BECAUSE we committed everything to the run.
Bama can run the ball BECAUSE they pass the ball. And no, they are not running the ball at all like they ran the ball in 2010 or 2011 or 2012. They’re throwing the ball the way they used to run the ball. Their splits completely flipped.
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You can’t beat Oklahoma running the ball with Sony and Chubb in the 2018 Rose Bowl Game.
I mean if you think Sony can rip off 16.5 yards a carry while your qb is averaging 7.2 yards a throw you’re just like crazy and stuff.
Why doesn’t Kirby get “it?”
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If you can tell me what a game in 2017 has to do with 2018 or 2019 or 2020 or 2021, you get a gold star.
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Same deal – we won that game because eventually our lines of scrimmage took over. Baker Mayfield was battered and bruised in that 2nd half. Lincoln Riley was a fool to squib kick at the end of the 1st half.
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You can’t beat the no. 1 pick at qb playing in a wide open offense with defense, special teams and a running game. Can’t do it.
Should have had Jake throw it more. That was the answer.
Smh….
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If I remember correctly, OK had a running back that was shredding us until he got hurt. If he hadn’t got hurt we probably don’t win. I’m not dawg grading our win, injuries are part of football and we deserved to win. Just saying it was a wild game that could have gone either way.
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Anderson did shred us (especially in the 1st half), but he did play the whole game.
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Knocking people out is part of manually though
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The premise is still the same. We won that night because eventually our lines of scrimmage took over the game. It’s exactly what Bama has done to us the last 3 times we played them. Their lines of scrimmage took over.
Sure, you can’t run into stacked boxes especially in today’s game where you don’t have a fullback as a lead blocker. You have to be willing to throw when defenses dictate you throw. You have to be able to run when it’s offered.
Guess what play changed the momentum of the Georgia-Alabama game this year? It was the first play of the last possession of the first half:
Najee Harris run for 14 yds to the Alab 39 for a 1ST down
That play allowed them to go into their hurry-up offense (of course, they got a break from the officials to put a second back on the clock) and hit two quick passes.
Who knows what happens if we go into the locker room with a TD lead and the ball to start the 2nd half?
The way football is played has changed … the way to win hasn’t changed. The team that is better across the line of scrimmage is typically the team that wins.
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But you can win a natty if stetson throws 60 times a game.
Doncha get “it?”
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Man, your favorite logical fallacy truly is the appeal to ridicule, because you keep using it over and over no matter how many times it’s pointed out to you.
You think you’re making a point, but all you do is show everyone that you can’t actually argue a point. You have to reduce the points of others to a ridiculous nth degree and put words into people’s mouth, be hard you can’t argue the actual point.
What’s really funny is here you have the greatest coach in CFB history saying right here what I’ve been saying for three years, but you’re going to argue against him simply because it would mean agreeing with me if you didn’t.
Some of you have some real problems. Seek professional help. 😂😂😂
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Here’s the other thing. First possession of the 3rd quarter:
Zamir White – 35 yard kick return to the G39
Kendall Milton – 8 yard run to G47
Kendall Milton – 4 yard run to A49 for a 1st down
Now, wait for it …
Stetson Bennett sacked for a 2 yard loss to G49, fumble recovered by Georgia
Zamir White – 7 yard run to A44
Bennett pass incomplete to Jermaine Burton
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Reducto ad Absurdum
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You being smarter than Kirby and relying on a premise that he controls Monken to the point he can both control him and lie publicly that he does not actually control him isn’t absurd?
This is the hill you die upon.
And everyone else is absurd?
Really? Really??
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All I do is follow the data. The data says we still ran the ball way too much on first down and on second and long compared with teams that win National Titles and regularly make the playoffs.
That’s Kirby’s deal, not Monken’s.
What I find particularly hilarious is Nick Saban… NICK SABAN just said what I’ve been saying for three years and you and some others are arguing with the greatest coach in CFB history because you just can’t find yourself to admit I’ve been right.
One of us has problems, but it ain’t me.
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Alabama’s strengths have been at qb and receiver. Not so much at uga.
Its about the players, not the play calling.
If it was about play calling then why is Leach’s trophy case empty? Too much running on first down?
Good job on avoiding the whole Monken is being controlled and blamed anyway but he takes it in silence because well who the fuck knows?
Avoiding bat shit crazy premises is always a good idea.
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And yes, the players who are on the team have nothing to do with the head coach’s caveman preferences on offense.
They just happened to show up one day, got a scholarship, and started practicing.
Nothing Kirby could do! 😂
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I listened to the clip. Saban didn’t say a thing about sequence of play calling. He said that teams have to outscore other teams rather than play defense and win field position by use if special teams.
If your point is we should always pass on first down nothing in Saban’s comments supports that. If your point is that offenses have to be designed to be able to score quickly. he supported that.
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Yes, because teams score very quickly when they run more than they pass on first down and when they have a high percentage of runs on second and long.
Yep. That’s how it happens. You’re so correct. My bad.
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It’s still a necessary condition. Always will be. No offense known to man works when someone is a real threat to be in the backfield a beat after the snap.
But it’s never sufficient. It’s the engine of the car, but the car still has to be modified to fit the track. College football at the elite level used to be a Monster Truck rally. Now, it’s a Formula 1 race.
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I agree – I still say if you aren’t good up front on both sides, you aren’t going to win a national title. Bama (and LSU 2019)
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Sorry I posted the response before. Bama 2020 and LSU 2019 played a Formula 1 type of game, but they could grind people with good running backs when they needed (or wanted) to.
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Yeah, because the moment the defense committed numbers, they were going over the top for 6. And they had elite offensive line talent. That always helps.
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They are able to do that because defenses MUST respect the past.
The days of “grinding” out the fourth quarter of a football game against 8-man fronts are OVER. It doesn’t matter how good your o-line is, because the moment you punt the ball, and you will, that other offense is going to streak down field in no time to score.
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So blocking and tackling?
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Listening to the Alabamia hc, he changed 5/6 years ago…CKS wasn’t part of that change, saban misled CKS and for that, I don’t like little nicky, he is a dirty, dirty little man…
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Yep. Kirby, Lane and Saban never met together in 2014 or 2015.
Kirby had no idea that his defense gave up 40 to TAMU and OK in the 2013 season. None.
Kirby was all like I know what I’m coaching defense against, but I never want to replicate any of it if I ever get a head job.
It makes perfect sense.
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We won a shootout with OU in the rose bowl and then went toe to toe with Alabama in two separate shootouts.
2019 wasn’t the greatest and pre-Daniels 2020 certainly left a lot to be desired (but I mean… we didn’t have a QB, so what are you really going to do?).
I’m not worried about Kirby, who was on that staff with Saban from man ball through the Kiffin offense transition. He knows what’s up, and I just can’t get worked up and forget the facts of the matter every time he says he likes running the ball or being more physical than the other team in a press conference.
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There is very little evidence to suggest that kirby is interested in doing anything other that what it takes to win and he believes that doing that requires putting the ball in his best players hands.
If you tied nfl success to touches at Georgia you’d find a healthy correlation during the smart era.
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Probably the best thing that happened to Georgia was Newman quitting.
We would have spent last year with a mediocre DT quarterback and Kirby would not have seen the potential of the spread passing attack and turning Monken loose.
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This is all rule driven. One change to the rules would return CFB back to normalcy—the linemen down field rule. Change that rule so all ineligible players have to be behind the line of scrimmage on a pass play and everything goes back to the way it was before.
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Reply to Corch’s 10:21 am post. I know your response was sarcastic but I will treat it as a serious attempt to discuss..
I have no idea what percentage of first downs Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Notre Dame and T A & M ran the ball on first down, and what percentage UGA ran the ball on first down.
On an earlier post you wrote “I just follow the data.” That implies you could tell us what percentage of the time every playoff team ran the ball on first down and the number of times UGA did. I never heard Saban endorse a particular play calling philosophy on first downs.
If the point of your post is that when a team gets into second and long or third and long it is less likely to score on that drive, then you are correct.
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The Senator has posted a couple of blog entries in the off-season where people look at the offenses that not only score a lot of points, but the offenses of teams that win the National Title and make the playoffs with far more regularity than we have.
Those teams do not run the ball on first down as much as we do and they also don’t run the ball as much on second and long as we do.
If you don’t think this is what Saban is talking about when he says it’s not enough to rush more than your opponent to win games anymore, then I have absolutely nothing for you. Y’all are literally arguing with the greatest coach in CFB because you can’t admit I’ve been right.
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Corch, it is not about you. If you have seen data supporting your theory about Smart’s offense, then fine. If that data says what you say, then you are correct. I do not know the data. I am not arguing whether you are correct about it data supporting your theory, so I am not arguing your theory is correct or not. What I AM disagreeing with you about is that Saban in the clip didn’t say what you said he said.
You may wish to support your argument with the evidence you have which actually supports your argument rather than take the clip out of context.
No offense, but these discussions aren’t personal so don’t make it all about you.
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Saban hired Joey Freshwater in January of 2014 to, in Saban’s words, “outscore ’em.” A run-heavy offense was, in Joey’s judgement, no longer the best way to score the most points.
Didn’t work immediately.
The Dawgs were the highest-scoring SEC team in ’14-’15. That’s the last time UGA averaged more points than Bama over the course of a season. Since Kirby arrived in ’16, Bama has averaged at least 14 PPG more than UGA in three seasons, including the last two, despite playing a tougher schedule.
IMO the question is: is Kirby late to the party or has he even arrived? The SEC East, on paper, is going to be mediocre at best in ’21. SEC West won’t be as strong as usual but TAMU should be formidable and LSU has enough talent to be a threat. And Ole Miss will score enough to be able to beat anybody. If UGA doesn’t lead the SEC in PPG (assuming no more catastrophic injuries), is that proof that Kirby still hasn’t figured out how to “outscore ’em”?
PPG
’14-’15
Bama 36.1 (3rd-highest-scoring team in SEC)
UGA 40.2 (Highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: UGA +4.1
’15-’16
Bama 32.7 (5th-highest-scoring team in SEC)
UGA 24.5 (9th-highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: Bama +8.2
’16-’17
Bama 39.4 (Highest-scoring team in SEC)
UGA 24.4 (11th-highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: Bama +15
’17-’18
Bama 36.4 (Highest-scoring team in SEC)
UGA 35.8 (2nd-highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: Bama +0.6
’18-’19
Bama 45.3 (Highest-scoring team in SEC)
UGA 37.3 (2nd-highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: Bama +8
’19-’20
Bama 45.7 (Second-highest-scoring team in SEC; LSU 1st)
UGA 28.3 (5th-highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: Bama +17.4
’20-’21
Bama 48.5 (Highest-scoring team in SEC)
UGA 32.3 (5th-highest-scoring team in SEC)
Difference: Bama +16.2
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I assume the points per game numbers are for all games. not just SEC games.
Interesting how our PPG increased so much against a conference only schedule with 5 starts by Mathis and Bennett over the previous year with 100% of the starts by an NFL QB, a 2nd round NFL RB, 2 first round OL line picks and another OLman who has started games in the NFL, and not having to play at Alabama but getting to play Vanderbilt.
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Yes, PPG numbers for all games, not just SEC games. Should have specified that. Makes Bama’s PPG even more impressive–lots of playoff games factored in there.
Still can’t believe how bad an OC Coley was. As you point out, the talent was there. The coaching was not. With SBIV/Mathis at QB, how many PPG does a Coley-coached UGA offense average in ’21? I’m going with just north of 20.
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You can say that again.
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Yes, PPG numbers for all games, not just SEC games. Should have specified that. Makes Bama’s PPG even more impressive–lots of playoff games factored in there.
Still can’t believe how bad an OC Coley was. As you point out, the talent was there. The coaching was not. With SBIV/Mathis at QB, how many PPG does a Coley-coached UGA offense average in ’21? I’m going with just north of 20.
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